Balance, Honesty & Stepping Away with Sarah LPC

Ben: 00:00:00

today's episode is an interview with our Being the work teammate

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Sarah She is a old friend from years ago

went to our master's degree together we

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just wanted to bring you her story and let

you know who all is behind the production

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of this We absolutely love to hear stories

about how you got into this work and what

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brought you how it's meaningful to you

and also how it's difficult for you to

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be a helper and what you think you might

need to be able to sustain that career.

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We would love to gather more

stories and be able to share the

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things that we can connect over.

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Hello.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Blakely: How are you?

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I'm alright, I guess.

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How are you guys?

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Ben: Good.

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Good.

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Sarah, how are you?

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Good.

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Can never tell on text what your tone

is, so I infer, oh, she's freaking out.

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Sarah: Yesterday I was a little bit.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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You were inferring that correctly.

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This morning I just stayed busy

then I was like, okay, now I can

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like stop and let my brain think.

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I just didn't let myself think about it.

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Oh,

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Blakely: yeah.

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Keep it in a

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/

cage.

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Yeah.

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Smart.

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Ben: Smart.

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Yeah.

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My

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Sarah: house is looking great right now.

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Ben: That's good.

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That's good.

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God,

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Blakely: I wish I operated that way.

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Okay.

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I channel it into destruction.

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Ben: Anybody, when they realized

they had these symptoms of ADHD, like

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when you noticed it, did you just

let it run rampant for a little while

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just to see if you really had it?

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Blakely: I don't know if I can.

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I think I've gotten very

used to the habits I have.

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Ben: Like my thoughts, I've, I'm

still feel like I'm in this middle

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ground of like, do I really have it?

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And then there are times where I'm

like, you're just letting it go to

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see if you really have it, don't you?

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like

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Sarah: encouraging it.

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Seriously, it starts to feel like this

like self-fulfilling thing, right?

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Ben: And then I'm like,

I'm leaning into it.

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I'm like, yeah, but are

you just creating it?

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And then I'll find myself waking up

from like a big zone out period where

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my mind is really not productive.

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And I'm like, yep.

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Not making that up.

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Yeah.

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Not making that up.

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Blakely: Yep.

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I just opened up the ADHD hashtag on

Instagram for five minutes and I'm

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like, Oh, I recognize all of you.

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I didn't know that I did.

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Sarah: Yes.

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I think it's interesting that you

have thought about thinking about

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it . Like how thought about thinking

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Ben: about ADD.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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That you were think, I

mean, that's thinking's.

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That seems like that.

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Weird if I didn't,

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Blakely: yeah.

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Well that's what was sort of chuckling

about when you were talking about

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like you're hyper focusing on.

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Hyper focusing.

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Hyper focusing as a

symptom of hyper focusing.

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Like it's become such a It's just,

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Ben: yeah.

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It's like hiding in plain sight.

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Sarah, when did you realize that you

were dealing with some of these symptoms?

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Hmm,

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Sarah: probably about a year ago.

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Ben: Okay.

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Maybe less than that.

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What brought it up for you?

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Social media.

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Okay.

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Sarah: Actually, I have a, I have a

good friend who is neurodivergent and.

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Posts a lot of stuff about that

and she started posting some things

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about ADHD and I was like, wait, wait

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Which just got me hyper focused on going

down that path and I had already suspected

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that for my daughter and My mom had

just got a diagnosis like not too long

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ago, and I was like, Oh, yeah, this is

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Ben: probably true,

because I heard a number

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Blakely: just this week that was

like, once one person in a family

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is diagnosed, like there's a 40%

chance that a parent or child.

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Mm hmm.

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Will also be diagnosed, which I just,

which also seems small at this point.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I was thinking about that the other day

or actually this morning I was thinking

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I, and I heard some, some statistic

that it's like 7% don't quote me on

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this, 7% of the, of adults in the U.

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S.

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Have it.

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And then I was thinking, I was like

thinking all week, that's probably,

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you can't have it because there's only

7% like the likelihood is really low.

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And then today I'm like, wait, what

if, what's the likelihood if your

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parent has it and your brother has

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Blakely: it?

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What's the likelihood

in our field of work?

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It's higher than 7%.

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Like there are concentric circles here and

you are overlapping several, I believe.

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Have I told you about

my grandparents house?

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No.

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Oh my God.

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So my paternal grandfather

and I have the same birthday.

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He's literally, he's exactly

when he's dead, but he was

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exactly 50 years older than me.

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And so I think a lot of things were

attributed to more of a Zodiac arrangement

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than a genetic arrangement with the two of

us being very similar people because, they

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lived in a house that was not finished.

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Like plywood shit all over the

place because they had built

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it, but not finished rooms.

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Like just walled off,

like, don't go over there.

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Wow.

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Crazy shit like that.

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When I was a kid and I, whatever,

I didn't think a lot about it.

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Right.

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It's just my grandparents house.

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They live in the country.

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They're weird.

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And, he had a recliner and behind it was

space and in that space, there were just

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cardboard boxes full of paperback books.

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Ben: As you touch cardboard boxes.

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Yeah.

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Which are there, are there

paperback books in there?

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Blakely: No, but there

are some within reach.

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Okay.

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And he had like a monstrous book

collection and a huge movie collection.

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And those were just like his

channeled energy all the time.

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Yeah.

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And it all makes so much more sense

now because I watched my dad and

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Yeah, it just all adds up because I

think my dad has always thought that

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he's a stupid person and he's not.

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I think it's this constant

chasing your tail feeling.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Sarah, you said that you

are an Enneagram one.

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What does that, what's that mean?

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Blakely: Speaking of a

paperback book within reach.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Hey, look at you, the essential Enneagram.

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.

Sarah: I think the Enneagram one.

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Coupled with this conversation is really

interesting because Enneagram 1 is so not

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Blakely: ADHD.

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Exactly what I was thinking.

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And

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Sarah: so I'm, I'm really

intrigued about that.

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And like, what, does that mean?

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Like I could spend forever,

I think trying to unravel.

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What that looks like, what that has

looked like for me in the past and

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like what it looks like now, because

that's a very different but any of

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them ones are very rule followers doing

organized and being the most correct.

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Ben: Sure.

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Sarah: Yeah, I would say what

sums me up as being the most

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correct and following the rules.

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Blakely: The description in the book

has it's easy for me to see what's

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wrong with things as they are and

to see how they could be improved,

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which sounds so much like that.

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Like the network of coming together,

disparate parts that we can kind of weave.

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Yeah.

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Sarah: Understand.

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Right.

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Like a theme, even still now of my

existence, I feel like is just asking

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almost every day about anything.

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How can this be more efficient?

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Like let's make this more

streamlined and more effective.

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There's a better way.

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That's, that's like my tagline.

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There has to be a better way.

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That's like with the StrengthsFinder,

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Blakely: My number six is Maximizer.

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So taking things as they are

and like, let's level it up.

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Let's make it better.

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Let's keep going.

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And I think that's some

of that energy, right?

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If this is good, then let's see

how we can even make it better.

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And that energy, I think is some

of that, a little bit of that

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motor, that push that, what if I

dig into this, what could it be?

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Sarah: And also very dissatisfying

because nothing is ever good enough.

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I just wonder how

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Blakely: that affects your,

even just your sense of self.

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If that achiever thing is such

a drive and then you have this.

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Seemingly disjointed attention

regulation that has to get

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hard in like your self place.

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Mm hmm.

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.

Sarah: I'm really curious if when I was younger, my oneness was developed

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out of an attempt to not have

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Blakely: ADHD.

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Yeah.

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Sure.

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Be that diligent person.

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Sarah: How can I right?

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How can I not be that?

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Yeah, because that was very.

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Parented at us like that.

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We shouldn't be that way,

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Ben: How has that impacted you

in adulthood and parenthood the

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Sarah: way I operate hasn't changed.

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Because I'm so used to myself, right.

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The realization doesn't

change the lived experience.

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Yeah.

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But it has helped me , just, I don't know,

affirm, I guess that this is what I need.

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Like, it's okay that this is

just, this is what I need.

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And I do that clearing of the desk so many

times, like, okay, everyone stop talking.

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We need to get out of the house.

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I need X, Y, and Z and my

kids know that about me, too.

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Like, when I say everybody

stop, they're like, okay,

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yeah.

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Ben: You break.

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Hang on, hang on, gotta think.

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I'm

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Sarah: definitely, I'm definitely the,

um, turn the radio off to find somewhere.

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You know, driving and

needing to focus, like,

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Ben: yeah, you can't not hear

it or listen or pay attention.

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It's like, yeah, yeah,

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Sarah: yeah, that question on the

attitude site that we were looking

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at about being overwhelmed by.

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Stores and parties.

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I don't remember what else it said.

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Staying home with children is like

always being in that environment

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Ben: because you have

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Sarah: said

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Blakely: I'm here for and

now the AC guy is coming.

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So, oh my God, we're

talking about is happening.

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What time?

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Within 20 minutes, apparently.

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Which wasn't supposed to happen

until like 3 hours from now.

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So I had already put

it in a later category.

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Ah, ah,

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Sarah: ah,

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Ben: ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

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Quick adjust!

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It's not going the way it should go.

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But

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Blakely: I cleared the thing and I've

laid the path and it's supposed to go this

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Ben: way.

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Yeah, right.

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I cleared the table.

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A tree fell in my path.

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Damn it.

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/

Your bachelor's was psychology, and then went straight into

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the masters of counseling.

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And that's where we met.

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We were both in the mental health track

, we were in every single class together,

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Sarah: I think.

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Yeah.

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We both did daytime.

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So we had every class,

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Ben: I'm curious, , how did

you want to be a helper?

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Like, how did you get there?

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,

Sarah: so possibly the hyper fixation , on, uh, my childhood

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was tumultuous, traumatic.

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, and my mom did a really great job at a.

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I mean, I was like seeing this

public school counselor in elementary

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school and then intermittently

throughout like different periods

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of life had gone to many counselors.

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, and by the time you're in high school,

you know, everybody's pushing like,

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you need to know what you should

want to do for the rest of your life

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sure.

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And so as a natural like helper

personality and like a very, I

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would use the word empathetic, but

I think especially then I was just

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hypervigilant because of trauma,

like, so I could read people well.

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I leaned pretty easily to counseling

like I had had good experiences

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attributed a lot of my like, , ability

to be a good functioning human despite

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my childhood to going to counseling.

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, so it kind of felt like

a natural fit for me and.

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Potentially hyper focused.

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I don't know.

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But like once I decided that at 14

or 15 years old, I was doing that.

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I found a college that had a master's

program so I could go straight through

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like everything was very strategic

and I just like did the thing, which

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is why I went straight from the

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Blakely: do you have you noticed

that that's sort of just a hallmark

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of, of you like you, you set the

current so that you can just.

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Float it, right?

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Like as long as I set the path

as clear and smooth as possible.

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Ben: Yeah, this is it, right?

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Yes, you you

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.

Were nervous to come on the podcast.

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There's a, a few things that we

wanted to have you talk about , just

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have everybody that listens, get

to know who all's on our team.

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, and also , you're a helper, and God

knows, uh, you haven't actually said this

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to me, but I think I know, uh, cause I am

so smart, , that, that you have used what

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you have learned and your experience with

helping people in counseling as a parent.

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When you contacted me to be

your, your supervisor, I was

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like, well, yeah, of course.

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. And so that was like super interesting

to me, like still after all this time.

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You wanted to be a part of the field.

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Mm hmm.

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So, why?

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Sarah: So the initial why was I really

wanted something outside of my family

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and my kids for myself to have space

away from them for my own fulfillment

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to get back to something that I love.

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It was kind of always the goal

to stay home and raise them when

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they were small and eventually get

back in the game at some capacity.

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My youngest started kindergarten this

year, so it felt like a decent time,

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like, okay, some time is freeing up.

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I could go do this.

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I still kept up my license the

whole time because I like it.

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I do.

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I like learning about it.

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I like staying relevant.

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, and I like people.

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So, I wanted to come back to that.

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I enjoy hearing people's stories

and helping them make sense of

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their experience in a way that

they can't do for themselves.

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Ben: Do you remember a time that you

did that, that you felt really proud of?

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, Sarah: there's a few times.

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Some 10 years ago, and some that

were in this, like, current set

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of seeing clients, there was one

in particular right after school.

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, I worked briefly before having kids and.

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Ben: While you were pregnant?

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Yes.

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Very briefly.

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Because that was the next step.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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That was the plan.

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That was the plan.

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Yes.

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Sarah: Um, yeah, I had a mom and

daughter client that I worked with.

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Not even really for that long.

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I couldn't, I couldn't tell you now

how long it was, but like in the scheme

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of things, not that long of a time,

, yeah, and their ability to communicate

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with each other drastically changed.

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, I mean, I think a huge part of me feeling.

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Good and confident about the experience

was that they were profusely thankful,

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like multiple times of like, this has

dramatically changed our relationship.

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This has made things so much better.

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Of course, like, that's the goal and

it's not something you hear very often.

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Like.

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No.

348

: 00:16:07

Even, even if there has been change, you

don't always get met with that feedback.

349

: 00:16:11

That's usually when they leave.

350

: 00:16:12

Um, you just get, you just get ghosted.

351

: 00:16:14

Yes.

352

: 00:16:15

Ben: I'm good now.

353

: 00:16:15

Yeah.

354

: 00:16:16

Okay.

355

: 00:16:16

Yeah.

356

: 00:16:18

Sarah: It felt fulfilling.

357

: 00:16:20

It felt like it, it helped

me feel like I had purpose.

358

: 00:16:24

I think like it, it fulfilled that,

like, this is why I'm in this.

359

: 00:16:29

You know, refreshed, because in the, in

the work of seeing, you know, clients back

360

: 00:16:35

to back to back, refreshed is not often a

word that you would probably describe as.

361

: 00:16:41

How you're feeling.

362

: 00:16:42

Um, but that interaction

363

: 00:16:44

Ben: The things that, when, when

something like that happens, you

364

: 00:16:47

can see that they are more calm with

one another, that they are more.

365

: 00:16:53

Wise with one another and able to

communicate their experiences and ask

366

: 00:16:58

for what they need and point out problems

to one another in a respectful way

367

: 00:17:03

that's like, you can just see they've

got a different vibe with one another.

368

: 00:17:08

And you know, inherently that you are, a

part of that, and be that bridge that

369

: 00:17:16

connects people to insights and to love

and joy and excitement and contentment

370

: 00:17:24

and like it that the word fulfilling

. You know, it's just feels transcendent.

371

: 00:17:31

Sarah: I didn't sit in that like

pause long enough because I also feel

372

: 00:17:36

like it was like Oh, that's great.

373

: 00:17:38

Next client.

374

: 00:17:39

. No, we

375

: 00:17:39

Blakely: don't sit with a good feeling.

376

: 00:17:40

We're just glad we had it.

377

: 00:17:42

Yeah.

378

: 00:17:43

Great.

379

: 00:17:44

Cool.

380

: 00:17:44

Move on.

381

: 00:17:45

Yeah.

382

: 00:17:46

Ben: Good.

383

: 00:17:46

You're welcome.

384

: 00:17:47

Goodbye.

385

: 00:17:48

Blakely: Yeah.

386

: 00:17:48

Now I have to go worry about someone else.

387

: 00:17:50

I don't have to worry about you.

388

: 00:17:51

Ben: Therapy robot.

389

: 00:17:53

Yeah.

390

: 00:17:53

I am a therapy robot.

391

: 00:17:55

But you felt refreshed.

392

: 00:17:57

Blakely: Well, even to use that

refreshed word, that's under, we're

393

: 00:18:00

actually looking at an emotion chart.

394

: 00:18:01

It's under that category of contentment,

safety, security, feeling at ease, feeling

395

: 00:18:06

like that relief of some sort of pressure.

396

: 00:18:11

And I think we all feel that

sense of like the pressure in

397

: 00:18:13

the room of being the fixer.

398

: 00:18:16

And when you watch them fix

their own stuff with you as

399

: 00:18:20

kind of a conduit to that, it's

400

: 00:18:22

Ben: powerful.

401

: 00:18:22

Good point.

402

: 00:18:23

It's, it's in that teamwork that it

feels energetic and lovely and awesome.

403

: 00:18:31

But then when it's all on you.

404

: 00:18:34

To find the answer to fix people and

that's easy to like fall into that

405

: 00:18:40

responsibility easy to fall into

and it also is like such a burden.

406

: 00:18:45

Like it's so taxing to do that.

407

: 00:18:49

Yeah.

408

: 00:18:50

So How did you make the choice, so

like, we got reconnected , you

409

: 00:18:54

were also sort of on a personal

journey of like, what do I find?

410

: 00:18:58

In my life , that is fulfilling.

411

: 00:19:01

That's not being a mom that is

also, fulfilling some purpose

412

: 00:19:07

and meaning yeah, yeah, yeah.

413

: 00:19:10

Um, so how did you make the decision?

414

: 00:19:13

Like, okay, this isn't really for

me, this, this role in itself.

415

: 00:19:18

Yeah, that

416

: 00:19:19

Sarah: was so hard.

417

: 00:19:20

especially to make that choice.

418

: 00:19:23

When you're regularly meeting with

clients like that pressure and

419

: 00:19:27

responsibility feels very intense

of like Now I am responsible for

420

: 00:19:32

these people and what I'm just gonna

leave Like, that doesn't feel fair.

421

: 00:19:37

Blakely: There's no stop point

with the way that we flow.

422

: 00:19:40

You're always at the beginning

with someone, in the middle with

423

: 00:19:43

someone, toward the end with someone.

424

: 00:19:45

But regardless, you're

throwing it all down at once.

425

: 00:19:48

Right.

426

: 00:19:49

Yeah.

427

: 00:19:49

I feel that.

428

: 00:19:51

Yeah.

429

: 00:19:52

I think that's what keeps us

from changing and progressing in

430

: 00:19:54

our careers anyway, a lot of the

431

: 00:19:57

Sarah: time.

432

: 00:19:57

A hundred percent.

433

: 00:19:57

I could, I could totally see that because.

434

: 00:20:01

I think, and maybe my oneness played

into that too of like, I don't know,

435

: 00:20:06

I feel like maybe I take on more

responsibility than the average person.

436

: 00:20:09

Maybe that's not true in our profession.

437

: 00:20:12

Like that doing what's right

and justice and like none of me

438

: 00:20:17

leaving doesn't feel fair to you.

439

: 00:20:19

Ben: Right.

440

: 00:20:20

So I think that's.

441

: 00:20:22

Quite normal for us.

442

: 00:20:24

Yeah, I think

443

: 00:20:24

Blakely: it's normal in our field.

444

: 00:20:25

I think it's normal if we're talking

about the ADHD thing, that justice

445

: 00:20:28

orientation, I think it's normal for your

personality, the way that you've described

446

: 00:20:32

it, it's all being carried with you.

447

: 00:20:35

So you have to feel it.

448

: 00:20:36

Yeah.

449

: 00:20:36

Ben: Yeah.

450

: 00:20:38

, Sarah: really it kind of came

down to like seeing clients.

451

: 00:20:42

I was, I had very few, honestly,

like I was extremely part time

452

: 00:20:47

and still seeing clients and then

coming home and being the primary

453

: 00:20:53

caregiver for my children every day.

454

: 00:20:57

Um, I couldn't show up at home the

way that I wanted to and see clients.

455

: 00:21:07

It felt like a lose lose, in many

ways because there was no good choice.

456

: 00:21:12

There was not a choice that

felt good to me in the moment.

457

: 00:21:15

Ben: Right.

458

: 00:21:16

Yep.

459

: 00:21:17

Right.

460

: 00:21:17

Yeah.

461

: 00:21:19

Yeah.

462

: 00:21:20

I think, I think

463

: 00:21:21

when it comes to the.

464

: 00:21:24

Easily triggering conversations about

self care, the, these are the dilemmas

465

: 00:21:32

that we experience that can be extremely

reduced down to simplistic discussions

466

: 00:21:41

around either, well, so what, stick

it out, be better, or, you know,

467

: 00:21:49

conversations about kale and bubble baths.

468

: 00:21:53

And I haven't actually had

anyone sit me down and go, you

469

: 00:21:56

need to take care of yourself.

470

: 00:21:58

You need to have, you know, bubble baths

or kale, but I have been to several

471

: 00:22:06

trainings and read several articles and

books and things like that that are just

472

: 00:22:10

like reductive and it's not actually the

difficult discussion of the actual dilemma

473

: 00:22:17

that's pulling me in different directions.

474

: 00:22:20

To take care of myself and to take care

of my family or devote to my clients and

475

: 00:22:29

that's a really difficult place to sit.

476

: 00:22:32

It's a really hard place to

sit, especially if you're alone.

477

: 00:22:36

And that's the point of this.

478

: 00:22:40

Doing the work and having support

for us to be in the middle of that

479

: 00:22:47

dilemma, feeling like our heart

is being pulled in two directions.

480

: 00:22:53

Yeah.

481

: 00:22:53

Mm hmm.

482

: 00:22:54

I mean, Allison's, , episode where,

where she was talking about this, like,

483

: 00:22:59

she was either having to, to choose.

484

: 00:23:02

Uh, being able to have Children, which

was a passion in her life forever

485

: 00:23:08

and to help people and meet needs.

486

: 00:23:14

Like, the system she was working

in could not make both a reality.

487

: 00:23:19

And so, like, she talked about

being in her car and crying

488

: 00:23:24

and, like, desperate, right?

489

: 00:23:28

And she chose a brave choice, a

brave choice to give up on a passion.

490

: 00:23:34

For another passion.

491

: 00:23:36

Mm hmm.

492

: 00:23:37

Like this is our lives.

493

: 00:23:39

This is like how a Triggered How

494

: 00:23:50

Whoo fire in my stomach, how am

I supposed to choose that right?

495

: 00:23:56

How am I supposed to like find a hobby?

496

: 00:24:00

That will make that

choice clear, Because a

497

: 00:24:05

Blakely: is also adding something

else to do when half of what we're

498

: 00:24:08

talking about is there's too much

to do, it's the wrong solution.

499

: 00:24:12

We all need hobbies.

500

: 00:24:13

Sure.

501

: 00:24:15

It's just not applicable here.

502

: 00:24:16

Yeah.

503

: 00:24:17

Right.

504

: 00:24:17

And it starts to feel like the

system just takes it from us.

505

: 00:24:22

The circumstances are so

506

: 00:24:23

Ben: tough, right?

507

: 00:24:25

Right.

508

: 00:24:26

Anyways, that whole rant, um, to basically

ask you, how did you make the choice

509

: 00:24:34

to choose yourself, your family, , over

like getting back into this career?

510

: 00:24:40

Yeah.

511

: 00:24:41

Sarah: think there's two things

that made that easier for me.

512

: 00:24:46

one is that I had the experience before

coming back to work of what it was like

513

: 00:24:51

to be home full time and not working.

514

: 00:24:54

And so, I think, had I had kids

and worked simultaneously the whole

515

: 00:24:58

time, that choice would feel harder.

516

: 00:25:01

like, I knew very clearly what was

on the other side of my choice.

517

: 00:25:04

and the other thing is that over the

last two to three years, probably three

518

: 00:25:10

years, I've done a lot of my own work

and, dealt with a lot of my own stuff

519

: 00:25:15

about being everything for everyone.

520

: 00:25:18

And so it was easy when faced with

this to see, like, this doesn't feel

521

: 00:25:22

like an easy choice, but I, I can

clearly see what's happening here.

522

: 00:25:26

And I know for myself.

523

: 00:25:29

The right choice.

524

: 00:25:30

I just don't want to say it out

loud because it doesn't feel good.

525

: 00:25:34

Yeah.

526

: 00:25:34

Right.

527

: 00:25:35

To say it out loud, but like, I knew.

528

: 00:25:37

Right.

529

: 00:25:37

and so I think having done that work

prior to being faced with a hard choice.

530

: 00:25:42

Made it easier to follow through

instead of staying in that stuckness

531

: 00:25:46

for a longer period of time

532

: 00:25:50

/ Ben: Our normal next question is what do

you need to be able to stay in the work?

533

: 00:25:54

And you have stayed In the work.

534

: 00:25:57

I mean, it's adjacent

535

: 00:25:59

Blakely: well, I think this is also

a great opportunity to point out half

536

: 00:26:01

of the, the appeal in our field of

work is the diversity of options.

537

: 00:26:07

Doesn't mean we're always going to

get paid well, but we can always

538

: 00:26:10

apply our skills and our education in

countless different spaces and methods.

539

: 00:26:17

And we forget that.

540

: 00:26:18

We forget the opportunities that it gives

us to kind of diversify our experience.

541

: 00:26:21

For sure.

542

: 00:26:22

Mm hmm.

543

: 00:26:23

Ben: I don't know.

544

: 00:26:23

Are you doing any other things

that are,, like helper adjacent?

545

: 00:26:28

, of course being a part of the podcast is.

546

: 00:26:31

. Sarah: This feels silly to say out loud,

but honestly, , I feel like the biggest

547

: 00:26:35

thing that I do is work with my daughter

who has sensory processing disorder, who

548

: 00:26:41

has dyslexia, who,, really takes a lot of.

549

: 00:26:46

Attention and effort and that's not a

traditional way to be using my skills,

550

: 00:26:53

but has helped immensely to understand

and be able to be compassionate

551

: 00:26:58

instead of just like an angry mom.

552

: 00:27:00

Like, why aren't you doing what you're

supposed to be doing without my knowledge?

553

: 00:27:04

Like, it would be very easy to just

overlook that and feel like she's.

554

: 00:27:09

you know, a bad kid.

555

: 00:27:11

And so I've used that, daily

556

: 00:27:15

Blakely: I don't know that I

agree with you that it's not a

557

: 00:27:17

traditional way to use our skillset.

558

: 00:27:19

And this may be me becoming a

social worker again, um, because

559

: 00:27:24

I go back to social work origin.

560

: 00:27:26

with like Jane Addams and Friendly

Visitors and just the whole community

561

: 00:27:30

organization of being in the place

where you live, where, where things

562

: 00:27:34

happen, taking care of your village.

563

: 00:27:36

Like that's all, it's all like

the most traditional, I think.

564

: 00:27:41

Sarah: Yeah.

565

: 00:27:41

Yeah.

566

: 00:27:42

Ben: Which is a social

worker thing to do, right?

567

: 00:27:45

. Well, like.

568

: 00:27:46

Yeah.

569

: 00:27:46

My brand.

570

: 00:27:48

Yeah.

571

: 00:27:48

Yeah.

572

: 00:27:48

I like your brand, too.

573

: 00:27:50

I just like you having it and

me getting the benefits from it.

574

: 00:27:54

Yes.

575

: 00:27:55

Blakely: It suits me better.

576

: 00:27:55

It's okay.

577

: 00:27:57

Ben: I'm curious, Sarah, what

your experience, uh, being a

578

: 00:28:01

part of the podcast has been.

579

: 00:28:04

And, Why be a part of this?

580

: 00:28:09

Um,

581

: 00:28:14

Sarah: I'm trying to decide

which way I want to go with this.

582

: 00:28:18

Blakely: Red pill, blue pill.

583

: 00:28:20

Sarah: Yeah.

584

: 00:28:22

I always really admired you,

Ben, in school, and Pfft.

585

: 00:28:30

Ben: What?

586

: 00:28:31

Let

587

: 00:28:31

Blakely: me just say before you go too

far, Ben has a way of pulling compliments

588

: 00:28:34

out of our interviewees you know, I've

589

: 00:28:36

Sarah: noticed this.

590

: 00:28:36

You know I've noticed this.

591

: 00:28:41

Ben: That's why you keep me around.

592

: 00:28:42

Blakely: I'll tell you, it's fine.

593

: 00:28:43

Ben: I just want, It's okay, it's all

594

: 00:28:45

Blakely: true.

595

: 00:28:46

It's all true.

596

: 00:28:47

.

Ben: You're so great.

597

: 00:28:48

Stop it.

598

: 00:28:53

So, anyways, back to the question.

599

: 00:28:55

Yeah.

600

: 00:28:55

I saw the opportunity to

invite you into this mm-hmm.

601

: 00:28:58

because I was privileged to be there

to help you sort of figure out it, to

602

: 00:29:03

be a counselor, not to, and um, I saw

an opportunity to invite you into this.

603

: 00:29:10

And so I'm just curious why you decided

to do that and why you've stayed.

604

: 00:29:15

Yeah.

605

: 00:29:16

Sarah: When you asked me about or even

you didn't even really ask you just kind

606

: 00:29:20

of like floated the idea out there at

first and it felt like an immediate.

607

: 00:29:26

Yes for me partly that goes back to

my interactions with you in school

608

: 00:29:32

and I just

609

: 00:29:34

Ben: cuz you had all these

610

: 00:29:36

Sarah: Yes,

611

: 00:29:36

because I admired you

612

: 00:29:38

Ben: because I,

613

: 00:29:43

Sarah: I don't know, you were always

so kind and so approachable and uh,

614

: 00:29:52

there's a word that I can't

come up with, but I always.

615

: 00:29:56

Was intrigued by your compassion,

probably like you presented in a

616

: 00:30:02

different way than what I could at that

time in a way that I was like jealous of

617

: 00:30:08

like

618

: 00:30:09

in a good way, like you were able to

sit with people and and listen and

619

: 00:30:15

be compassionate and and I always

just really admired that about you.

620

: 00:30:21

Ben: Thank you.

621

: 00:30:22

Sarah: You're welcome.

622

: 00:30:23

And coming into supervision,

especially after like a big, almost

623

: 00:30:30

10 year break from being in this

type of setting at all was really,

624

: 00:30:38

I realized how much I missed it.

625

: 00:30:39

I missed learning.

626

: 00:30:41

I missed.

627

: 00:30:42

applying my brain in a different way, like

for 10 years, I just was raising kids.

628

: 00:30:47

I mean, I say just, but

629

: 00:30:49

Ben: The

630

: 00:30:50

Blakely: cerebral part

you're talking about feels

631

: 00:30:51

Sarah: limiting, right?

632

: 00:30:53

Yes.

633

: 00:30:53

I went from my master's program very

quickly to staying home with an infant.

634

: 00:30:59

24 7 by myself while my husband

was at work, singing the

635

: 00:31:04

freaking ABCs 87 times a day.

636

: 00:31:07

And all of the learner in me died.

637

: 00:31:11

Like, I just

638

: 00:31:12

I adore staying home.

639

: 00:31:15

It's a both and right?

640

: 00:31:16

Like, yeah, so many

great things about that.

641

: 00:31:18

But like that part of me, but you're

642

: 00:31:21

Ben: also a full human being, right?

643

: 00:31:23

You're not just a mom, right?

644

: 00:31:26

Sarah: So coming back into the work and

supervision and especially like seeing

645

: 00:31:32

where you are now, I know we had this

conversation at one point that like,

646

: 00:31:35

I see where you are and I want to be

there, but I don't want to do the work

647

: 00:31:39

that you had to do to be where you are.

648

: 00:31:41

Like, I don't want to have to sit

with the amount of clients you Had

649

: 00:31:44

to sit with to know what you know,

but also like, I do want to sit at

650

: 00:31:49

your feet and like soak it all up.

651

: 00:31:51

Hey,

652

: 00:31:51

Ben: yo, fuck that.

653

: 00:31:54

Get out.

654

: 00:31:54

That's gross.

655

: 00:31:55

Okay.

656

: 00:31:55

Sit beside you.

657

: 00:31:56

Okay.

658

: 00:31:56

Thank you.

659

: 00:31:57

Geez.

660

: 00:31:58

Blakely: Oh, now we're taking

the admiration too far.

661

: 00:32:01

It's a soofery Prince

662

: 00:32:02

Ben: Ben.

663

: 00:32:04

I don't like it.

664

: 00:32:06

Well, like that's too close.

665

: 00:32:08

That's too close.

666

: 00:32:11

Don't critique

667

: 00:32:11

Blakely: me too much,

but don't worship me.

668

: 00:32:13

Ben: Hold on.

669

: 00:32:14

Okay, it doesn't help that

I've got like a fan on my feet

670

: 00:32:17

right now, and they're bare.

671

: 00:32:20

And so I'm like, I'm having this

like sensory experience while

672

: 00:32:23

hearing that and I'm like, ugh!

673

: 00:32:26

Yuck!

674

: 00:32:28

All I was trying to say, I'm having

this like, I'm having this like

675

: 00:32:32

gut reaction anyways, go ahead.

676

: 00:32:35

I know that's not what

you're trying to say.

677

: 00:32:36

Sarah: Yes, I'm saying, I think

you're really smart and have a

678

: 00:32:41

lot of wisdom that I don't have

because I wasn't in the field.

679

: 00:32:46

And I think that's super cool.

680

: 00:32:47

And I want to know it all like that

learner part of me is like, I want to

681

: 00:32:51

know the things that you know, and.

682

: 00:32:55

So being invited into these conversations,

honestly, like after listening to

683

: 00:33:00

your first season, kind of before

we had really done much, I was just

684

: 00:33:04

listening through and a lot of my

hesitancy coming on, so I hear you

685

: 00:33:08

and Blakely talk and you're so smart.

686

: 00:33:12

And I used to feel smart, but now I feel

like I don't have anything relevant to

687

: 00:33:17

say and so, like, I love listening to

both of you, but I felt very inadequate,

688

: 00:33:24

like, coming on and feeling like I had

anything worth saying because you guys.

689

: 00:33:30

Are so smart and I love that.

690

: 00:33:38

Ben: How do you feel Blakely?

691

: 00:33:40

Um, How do you feel about that?

692

: 00:33:42

Blakely: It's interesting because

the smart button has been like

693

: 00:33:45

my dopamine button my whole life.

694

: 00:33:47

So, yay,

695

: 00:33:48

again.

696

: 00:33:50

Yay!

697

: 00:33:51

Ben: You got another

meaningless gold star?

698

: 00:33:53

Is that what

699

: 00:33:53

you mean?

700

: 00:33:54

Blakely: Yeah, I mean, I collect

those always, that's fine.

701

: 00:33:57

Add it to my chart.

702

: 00:33:57

I'll

703

: 00:33:58

Sarah: give you two.

704

: 00:34:03

Ben: Here's, here's two gold stars.

705

: 00:34:05

Blakely: but the thing while you're

talking, that's so interesting to me is A.

706

: 00:34:07

, my path has been, it's almost like we're

ships passing in the night, if you will.

707

: 00:34:12

Like I've gone the opposite direction

that you have, like I hadn't,

708

: 00:34:15

I had very minimal life plan.

709

: 00:34:17

I kind of crashed through it.

710

: 00:34:18

I knew that this like social work

path was the one I was going to

711

: 00:34:21

walk and everything else around me

was just going to happen, I guess.

712

: 00:34:24

And so I dove into the trenches

and did all the wild, crazy crisis

713

: 00:34:28

work and the child welfare work and

the HIV work and all this stuff.

714

: 00:34:33

And then my family showed up and

I couldn't balance everything.

715

: 00:34:37

It just gradually started getting

heavier and heavier and heavier and

716

: 00:34:40

heavier on the family side of things.

717

: 00:34:42

And I had prided myself on this

compartmentalization that I could be

718

: 00:34:45

two different people all the time.

719

: 00:34:47

And not parenting my children because I

was devoting my entire life to mentally

720

: 00:34:53

ill people because they needed me

and I already had relationships with

721

: 00:34:56

them before my children were born.

722

: 00:34:58

I had this relationship

before you showed up.

723

: 00:35:00

And so that conflict of not knowing

what it was going to be to rip the

724

: 00:35:04

plug from my social working and

throw everything at family life.

725

: 00:35:10

Like even when, you know, it's.

726

: 00:35:12

It's my legacy.

727

: 00:35:12

It's worth it.

728

: 00:35:13

It's, it's my children.

729

: 00:35:15

I have to raise them to be people.

730

: 00:35:17

It's still feels weird and bad and scary

and like you're betraying someone and , I

731

: 00:35:24

don't know to hear the validation of

that process that you've had and finding

732

: 00:35:29

your way back to wanting the knowledge

that you didn't acquire during that time.

733

: 00:35:33

It makes me Remember that it's not

all a loss to have pulled the plug.

734

: 00:35:38

I still have all of that stuff that

I experienced and I did, and I've

735

: 00:35:41

still chosen what I need to choose.

736

: 00:35:43

And I'm still sad that I didn't

have the first years of investing

737

: 00:35:48

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