I first met Gail Doby, 12 years ago, and she was a force to be reckoned with in her industry, back then. Since then, she has built her business, The Pearl Collective, and reputation on helping creatives (in the design industry) work smart and transform their businesses into successful operations.

Gail and I talk about the importance of building and nurturing relationships, the power of referrals, hiring and supporting valuable staff members, the business building blocks necessary for success – and so much more.

Moving from a job in an industry you love to “going it alone” can be a big challenge and really talented designers falter – not for lack of design talent or intelligence – but because they do not have the tools, guidance, or support to create a healthy business.

As you listen to Gail I’m sure you will be able to learn some tips that will help your entrepreneurial journey too.

Connect with Gail:

Pearl Collective:

 Website - https://thepearlcollective.com/cg-podcasts 

Gail's book available - https://thepearlcollective.com/cg-book 

A little about me:

I began my career as a teacher, was a corporate trainer for many years, and then found my niche training & supporting business owners, entrepreneurs & sales professionals to network at a world-class level. My passion is working with motivated people, who are coachable and who want to build their businesses through relationship marketing and networking (online & offline). I help my clients create retention strategies, grow through referrals, and create loyal customers by staying connected.

In appreciation for being here, I have a couple of gifts for you.

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile: https://www.janiceporter.com/linkedin-training.html

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by sending a FREE greeting card (on me): www.sendacardeverytime.com

Connect with me:

http://JanicePorter.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/

https://www.facebook.com/JanicePorterBiz

https://twitter.com/janiceporter

Join our Relationships Rule community on FB here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/relationshipsrule/

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Hello everyone and welcome to relationships

rule. I am very pleased to introduce you to my guests this

week her name is Gail Dobby. And Gail comes to us from the

Colorado area. And what's really fun for me as in this in

interview that I'm going to do is that when I was introduced to

Gail, this was because we were both part of a book that we each

did a chapter in just recently, for a friend of mine, Lorraine

ball, and the book was called more than a few written words.

And we we actually are side by side in our chapters because we

are both in the piece it talks about sales and marketing. And

when I first saw Gail's name, I thought I've met her before. And

it was a long time ago. And she, you know, she didn't really

remember and it's okay, Gail, I don't mind that you didn't

remember

it out afterwards.

And first of all, welcome to the show. Thank you.

You're welcome. And, but what was fun for me is because my

relation, my podcast is all about relationships. This was

kind of fun to, to dig back, because I knew I knew that I

knew the girl's name when I saw it, but I wasn't sure. And then

Lorraine thought we should meet. And she introduced us, right.

And then I started to dig in and ask a couple of questions. And

we both remembered, where you know how we were connected the

first time through a mutual acquaintance or friend or

client, I think in the case of you, and and what was so funny

is that, that just fits right into, okay, we had a

relationship many years ago, small though it was and by the

way, I found out it was 2011. Right, which is 12 years ago.

And what that did for me was it made it such a warmer connection

this time around, because I knew we had talked before. And that's

what I love about relationships.

Absolutely right. And it's just so fun when you find

that will and I like you anyway, you're very warm and genuine. So

one of the things that's really nice about that is when you do

reconnect, and you think Oh, I like this person, I don't know

why we haven't stayed connected. So anyway, these circumstances,

right,

it's circumstances and people go into

different directions and, and get caught up. But that also

takes me right into the point of being staying connected with

people is important. Because especially in your business, and

I haven't even talked about that yet, because I just jumped right

in. But in your business, the kind of intimacy that happens

for clients with their designer is big. And so it would seem

that if you love the designer that worked with you, that you

would tell others about them. And so the relationships form,

you know, referral partners and things like that. So a backup

now, because I started and I'm coming from left curve, and I'm

coming back in to who you are. So please, I know that Gail is a

co founder of the Perl collective, which used to be her

training and consulting business, but now has a

beautiful, I love the pearl on your book, and we'll talk about

that in a minute. But this is a consultancy. Tell us about the

work that you're doing now.

Well, it's very much relationship driven as well.

Still in coaching and consulting. I've been doing that

for a little over 15 years now. And it's related to and we

support interior design firms, architects. And also kind of

oddly, I do companies like accounting companies, CPA firms.

And I for some reason, they come to me because they need some

help as well. So I think that I was meant to do this. This is my

calling. I just didn't know it was it took me many years to

figure that out. Yeah. And it was an event or getting here to

stay at a finance degree. First, I went to work for a fortune 500

company in sales marketing. And then I went to work for one of

their distributors for some years and then went into

consulting. And then next thing you know, I ended up and being

in Denver, meet my husband. And I had friends that were flying

me around the country to get me to do their design work. So I

decided I would go get a design degree. So I did design for

quite a long time and started that back in 87. And once I got

to a point in 2007, I said, I'm not so sure I really want to

keep doing this. I was burned out. And I have my current co

founder has been working with me for 18 years, and she started as

an intern My business. So we decided to start this business,

which was in 2007, we started talking about 2008, we actually

started our business. And we were still doing design work for

a while. But we were also starting to do coaching and

consulting. And it's evolved over the years. And here we are

now 15 years later. And we have many clients that stay with us

for years. And it's because of relationships. And it's because

that's one of the core principles and things that both

Aaron and I have in common is relationships. So, with that

being one of our values, it was pretty easy for us to start

building this business. And that's how we keep people for so

long is just having that focus on relationships.

So just back me up for a second. So when you

were working in finance, you were doing design on just as a

passion like you weren't getting you might have been getting paid

for it. I don't know. But I mean, it wasn't your It wasn't

your career at that point. No. So you started off on the on the

left brain side of things.

But I always was right brain because I grew up with

music and heart and all sorts of things like that. But when I got

my degree, when I graduated, the fortune 500 company hired me for

sales marketing, right? So it wasn't even. Okay. Okay,

interesting. So yeah, and so going into the consulting role

later, that was one of the things I wanted to do is bring

in my business, experience my finance, and bring that into

what I'm doing now. And I think that we have to be open to the

fact that if we're not happy doing what we're doing, let's

look at what we have done in the past, or what some of our skills

are, just try to use some of those to create a new path for

ourselves. And that's, that's essentially what happened.

Interesting, that's really fascinating to me,

because when I first met you the first time around, I know you

had at that time about 10,000 people in your community of

designers and so forth, that you were doing online halls and so

forth with, which was huge. And so to, to keep that community

growing and going. And, you know, interior design is a

fascinating field, I think because I'm not an interior

designer, I love design, I love looking at beautiful things I

have one of my best friends works in a in that she's not a

designer, but she is, you know, she she helped me with my house,

because like you did probably in those early days, right. And I

love the textures. My father was a clothing manufacturer. And for

me, it was all about the fabrics. And you know, that kind

of thing. So kind of fun. But but you got the best of both

worlds. If someone hires you, as a just, and they're a designer,

I think they've got the best of both worlds, because you've got

the finance piece, you run your own business, and you are sales

and marketing expert. But you're also have been a designer all

those years, too. So I think it's brilliant. And I think

there was something in your chapter that you wrote in the in

the joint book that we did about that I think happens from so

many small business owners. The key point to remember is to

market when you're the busiest so that your future pipeline is

full. We all think when we're busy, we don't have time to

network or to stay connected with people. So can you speak to

that with the hundreds and 1000s of women and men that you've

talked to about this?

Absolutely. The thing that is so critical for people

to understand is that if you don't want to have a roller

coaster ride on your business, right, then you have to fill the

pipeline when you're full. Right? Because if you wait until

you don't have business, you're already down and the dip, and

the dip is too late, you've already put yourself six months

behind. So it really is that it critically important to market

at that time. And I say it until I'm probably blue. Because I

really believe so strongly that this is one of the keys for

people to be successful in their business. And it's not any, just

any business. It's all businesses.

So yeah, and then you say, so how do I do that?

I'm so busy. I'm busy running around for this client and that

client, and how can I be talking to prospects? Well,

yeah, some of those prospects and quite frankly, if

you're in the service industry, the majority of your people that

are going to hire you or your current clients looking for more

work. So all you have to do is pick up the phone or send an

email or meet them for lunch or coffee. So it's not that hard.

You do eat. You probably drink coffee. And you probably are

very relationship driven anyway. So that's kind of an easy thing

to do is simple. You can write handwritten notes. And I know

you have send out cards. So that's one of your things. And

staying in touch is critically important. Even afterwards, and

I've got a great story for this. I have been in this business

now, almost 15 years and our 14 year, we got a, I got a call

from one of my old design clients. Now, mind you, I did

her project probably 25 years ago, wow. And the reason she has

kept in touch and has for yours is because I've always stayed in

touch, I've always kept in touch at their holidays, or maybe at

for their birthday for their anniversary, I was sent some

sort of a message to them or a card. And she just was so happy

to reach back out. And at one point, she wanted to have me do

another project. And I went out and I looked at it. And it had

been so many years since we've done work together that she was

shocked at the price. And I said that's okay, I'll introduce you

to some other designers because I'm honestly really busy with my

current business. And so I put her in touch with somebody else,

and she hired them. But she came back again and wanted to talk

again. Oh, my gosh, this is so funny. Because it'd been

literally 25 years,

no, and I thought you were gonna tell me that her

house was exactly the way it was when you design

that one, they sold it, they went to California, they

sold that house, and then they came back to Colorado.

So the the, the designers that you work with,

I'm gonna stick to their design business for the moment, but the

designers that you work with, I know there's different levels of

work that they do, but also probably levels of interest in

the business because there's a lot of interior designers like

realtors who maybe do it part time or you know, around there,

and they're not that serious. And that's what they're the ones

that are the probably making the up and down swing all the time.

What would you say? Are the sort of key points that you would

teach to make them work smart, even in a smaller business? Or

are you not interested in those people? You know, there's that

too, right? Well, we

serve people that are up to well, pretty much all

types of people in the business, but the distinction is there are

people who are dabblers or hobbyists, okay, then there are

people who are really are wanting to build a business. And

we work with people who want to build a business.

So distinction, okay. Okay, and then go ahead.

And then how we work with them is it depends on where

they are, because everyone has their spot on their journey.

Yes, we've identified three basic sections of the journey,

and the early stage up to about a quarter of million dollars. At

that stage, you have to prove that you have the chops to do

design. And you also have to prove that you can sign a client

and get them to pay you to do the work. And that's the first

phase. And if you can do that on a consistent basis, then you

have a chance of building a real business. But that's the proof

of concept that has to happen in that early stage. And then once

you hit about 250,000 and go to about a million, that's the

stage when okay, you're committed, you know that you can

design, you already have figured out that there's a lot you don't

know about running a business, and you need help with that. And

at that point, you're starting to think about, okay, I'm

exhausted, I don't want to work all the time. I need help. I

need people on my team. So you're starting to build a team.

And then you get to the next level, which is the Million and

above. And this is where you are a serious business person, you

are a person that is you are all in. And this is something that

you want to do. It's a profession for you. It is not

just a job. It's not just a hobby, and you're not dabbling,

you are actually building a real business. And you want to take

it to a level that you've never taken it before. And this is

when you are most definitely running a team and probably have

a leadership team. And you're also systematizing your business

and starting to get to a point where this is a whole different

aspect of running a business. You are serious about this. And

where we see people and this relates to your business and

your podcast. You have to have relationships with everyone that

you work with. And the most important relationship you have

is actually your employees. Your team members are your most

important relationship before your clients. Because if you're

if you're employees aren't happy, your clients won't have

be happy. They just won't. Yeah, because that will be reflected

in the work that they do for sure. They'll show it in their,

their mood and the way they are. But if they like your company,

and they like you, which is important, you have to be very

likeable. And I wasn't in my first business, I failed

miserably in my design business, I was not a good manager, I was

a micromanager, very controlling, but I've learned to

be a lot better about that. And I've really learned to focus on

relationships. And it's because of the mistakes I made as a

designer,

that I love that, that you shared that because I

talk to a lot of business, small business owners and

entrepreneurs who are at the stage where they want to not

necessarily design of course, but in any situation where it's

time to hire part time or VA or somebody, you know, to do some

things. And I know for me, I get to on top of them to micromanage

because I'm a control freak. And I don't want it done just that

way I want it done the same way I would do. How can I expect

that? That's ridiculous, right? No. And so we we either don't do

it, and therefore we're still struggling timewise ourselves,

or we have to make a change somewhere and let something go.

But let it go to the point not to the point that you don't care

about it, you still care, but you have to build that rapport

and relationship with the person so that they they get you right,

and they know that they want to do it, they will do it your way.

Well, or that you trust that? Not necessarily your way. But

so I would say that yes. And because the yes and is

you want them to do it. And you also want them to have ownership

of it. Yeah. And if you want it your way, then you're going to

own it forever. And if you want to have others do it, then you

let need to let them own it. And be okay with them not doing it

exactly your way. But the more you provide training and

support, the better it is, and the more likely they'll do it

closer to the way you would do it. Exactly what here's the

other piece, the serendipity of this is that they might even do

it way better than you do. That's what's happened to me.

And I have a great team right now, I will tell you that the

person that took over in the early stages, you're doing

everything you're wearing to enhancing your business. And a

few years ago, probably five years ago, I hired an operations

manager. And the one I have right now has been with us for

about four years. And she is phenomenal. She does things way

better than I would ever do them. And so I tell her, Okay,

I've got this idea. Here's some research I've done helped me put

this together so that it makes sense to the rest of the team.

And she'll take it and she'll go work on it. And she'll bring it

back. And it's absolutely brilliant. Brilliant. And I look

at it and say, I'm so glad I hired her.

Yeah, so she she has different gifts to you.

Right. And

she's way better at that than I am.

Yeah. So you definitely have to show some

love and appreciation and respect to the people that are

on your team or else it's never going to work. I know, my one of

my daughters worked in a company several years ago, where the I

think he was the accountant in the company. And he was kind of

their overall their boss and she was running the customer service

team. And he was micromanaging everything that she did, and not

and therefore undermining her responsibility. And it really

was hard for her. It was so hard you could see it. She was not

going to build confidence when that's happening all the time.

And not only that he was yelling at them, which was even worse

doesn't work. No, bullying is what it really came down to. So

yeah, that's a really good point. So you your book, you

wrote your first book in March 2021. Business Breakthrough,

your creative value blueprint to get paid what you're worth, is

that focused on the design industry or it is okay.

It is. And what's interesting is a lot of people

read this that aren't in the industry, because it really

applies to most businesses. Yeah, I'm sure it does. That's

what it's asking. Yeah, and I think that for most people, the

reason I would call it creative value blueprint is that you're

in the creative business, and you have a value to it. And a

blueprint is something you can relate to, and it's a plan. So

if that's the case, then it makes sense for this to be a

creative value blueprint. And we do have a system and a process

that we've just done. We've refined over the years, we call

it our VIP experience. And when you walk out of there, you

essentially have that creative value blueprint. And that's why

we use that word because or that phrase, because it really fits

that.

Yeah, that makes sense. And is that book? Have

you written? Are you writing? Like, did you love writing or

hate writing? I mean, I'm curious.

I enjoy writing. And I probably, I have had so little

time I've been so so busy. But what I'm working on is, I have

started an outline for a new book, and it will be hopefully

it'll take. We'll see how long it takes. But maybe next year?

I'm not promising. And is it? Is it a completely different? Me I

asked like, or is it different thought it is going to be a

little bit different. And we'll be definitely focused on the

journeys that a lot of our clients have taken. Oh, fun.

Those are always fun to hear about. All of us like to see if

somebody started here. And they've ended up 16 times

bigger, which we have has done that. What is that path? How did

they get there? And hearing that story is can be very inspiring.

Definitely. Yeah, I love stories. I love hearing

the stories. So I have to ask you, this is like, this is to

the side. Okay, just a little bit. But you know, there's so

much on television with design shows on HGTV and other ones as

well. As your any one of those shows. Have you ever watched

any? Is there one that you think is true to reality? Are they all

just No, none of them? Not a one? No. I

have watched them and their entertainment if you want.

That's where you go. But there's no reality there. Because quite

frankly, you don't know what their budget is. Yes, show pays

for the construction. Not very much. And they don't really pay

the designers. And it's all for exposure. It's all for exposure.

Yeah. Unless you're a big celebrity and the celebrity, you

just have to have a big following. So the reality is

they're trying to sell viewership and advertising. So

it's not real, their entertainment is just a great

thing

to watch. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun, and it gives

you ideas sometimes, right. Okay. And tell me, Can you can

you think of you just mentioned a story where someone grew their

business? 16 times the amount? That's, that's in your book? Can

you?

Yeah, new book would be Oh, yeah. And then what?

Have you got a couple of stories that you could

just share? So many?

Yeah. Okay. And do you want it about, tell me a little

bit more about

what you I want to see how working with you

change the path for somebody or, or open the path for somebody

that to, to the heights that they didn't really expect that

they could do,

because we've had so many of those. We have another

client that came to me in 2018. And its partners in life and in

business. And they were doing about 1.8 million, which is

healthy. And the problem was cashflow, and profit, they just

didn't have it. And today, we are five years later, literally

this month, five years from their very first time working

with me. And they built a team, I think they're up to 15. Now

they're getting close to 8 million, I would say revenue. So

they've grown pretty dramatically. But what they've

learned is that, and I think this is a key You asked for me

to think about what is something that I want to share with

people. The key to growing your business is growing yourself.

You have to build the relationship with yourself

first, before you can grow your business. And when we had our

first day that we met their interiors, a good part of the

time and these are men. That's pretty common for a lot of my

clients. Because this is such a personal thing to grow a

business. And it's so hard is hard work. And you have a lot of

feelings attached because you are emotionally involved in all

aspects of the business. And they just didn't know what to

do. And so I took it through an exercise and I'm happy to just

do it really quickly. It only takes a second to do it. But the

first thing is you have to imagine where you want to go

with your life and your business and have a vision that is so

powerful that you can see it you can taste it, you can feel it.

So literally I walk them through this and ask them to close their

eyes and breathe. And then think about that and think about what

they were doing, who they were with what were the things that

they had accomplished. And then imagine that There was a brick

wall in front of them. And on that were giant sticky notes.

And on each sticky note was one of the things that was in their

way. And what they needed to do is understand that that was

blocking them from that beautiful vision that they had.

So what they needed to do was walk around the wall and see

their vision, instead of facing the wall and staring out where

they're stuck.

So find another way to make this happen. And

literally,

it's just taking a step, or two or five, yeah, just

in a different path and bypassing the negative, don't

stay focused on that, because you're more of that. But stay

focused on the vision and where you want to go. And if you do

that, you can literally break through a lot of the blocks that

you mentally have, and move toward a very positive future.

But you have to have a plan. Most people don't have a plan.

And that's the reason that most businesses fail, they don't have

a plan. And you have to have some sort of a plan, even if

it's on a napkin, and it's literally, yeah, and things

you've written down. But just write something down. And give

yourself something to work toward, because that's what

motivates you every day. And you have to look at it every day.

And just remember that you have to take one step every day,

once. That's all,

you said earlier that you felt this was your this

was your calling, this was your gift. And so it must be so

satisfying to watch the growth in your clients.

There's nothing better, it really is so exciting and

set. And eventually they do graduate we have people have

been with us, they'll sometimes stay seven or eight years. And

then they say we're ready to graduate. Because they've gotten

all they need, and they're in good shape. And they need

different kinds of help. Yeah, we love that. Because they've

gotten to a point, they don't have to depend on us anymore.

They have the information they need. And they have the support

that got them to that point. So it's really exciting to see

that.

Now there's a good point to then say, okay, so

they leave the nest their graduate. Now it's up to you to

maintain that relationship, because they are going to be

your raving fans,

right? Absolutely. So I text them all the time. I've

been texting a few of them this week. And sometimes we'll have

them come back as speakers, some of them become our coaches. And

most of them want to stay connected with us. So that

relationship is huge. And they send us clients all the time.

Yeah, that was great. That makes so much sense

in the end. And that's the kind of I've noticed in the last year

and a half, more and more people coming to me that new people

that said, come talk to us need to talk to journalists, and you

start to see the fruits of your labor of caring about people.

And so it's it's the best way to do business. The best

only wired up. Yeah, yeah. Well,

I say that. But I would say that too. I know that

you are on a new journey to improve yourself as well, which

is what you were talking about. Everybody should do. And I love

this. How is that going? And do you mind if we talked about

this one? It's painful.

So your, your your you now want to be on the

big stages, right?

I'm working on that. Yes. Actually, tomorrow, I have

some rehearsals and I'm also working with a performance

coach. So this is something that is a very big investment in time

and money. And it is so critically important because I

get so much business from my speaking. So the more the better

I can do at that and the more concise my message is, the

better my business will be. And it's not really just for that

it's just because I know I can be better. And if you know you

can be better than why in the world wouldn't you want to try

to be better. And we in reality, none of us can do this alone.

And if we try to do it ourselves, we're gonna go so

far. But if we want to go the distance, we always find a

coach, we find a mentor we find somebody else we find a

mastermind group those are the things that help you get to that

next level because we never push ourselves as hard as other

people will push us

that's really good advice actually. Very good

advice. And so in this case, did you do you feel you're in the

right place you found and does this training that you're doing

going to cost busy? Does it did they help you with the the

actual speech as well? Okay, so as well as the performance

you've got the performance coach and then they help you craft the

the speaking thing for what selling from the stage or

not necessarily Something from the stage but I'm

doing a Keynote or so developing a keynote speech, which is 45

minutes. And they do blocking and staging and content mapping

and teach you how to do the photo of vocal warm ups. And

then you have to work on expressing different ways. So

save really work on so many things in the whole process.

It's, it's really a good program.

One of the things that I've been looking and

learning and reading about lately is the power of

storytelling in what we do. So how much of that is coming into

play? Like, does every point in you, in your speech have to have

a story so to speak? I do

have a lot of stories in there. Because yes, people

are interested in stories. That's what engages people, when

you think back to when we were kids. That's the first thing

that we heard is our parents teaching us stories or reading

stories. And we love that and especially for parents, like my

mother was so good at telling stories. She had been raised

with a grandfather who taught her how to tell stories. And she

I could, we would ask her to tell the same stories over and

over and over because it was so entertaining. So yes,

when I taught school, I taught elementary

school and the little ones and I don't know if you're familiar.

Well, you must be familiar with this book, Charlson, the

chocolate Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Yes. Okay. So

by Roald Dahl. And that was a book that was written so well,

that every chapter, you were begging for the next thing,

right, like at the end of every chapter. So I used to read that

to my kids in school, I also used to read it to my kids, my

own kids. And I would always end a chapter and they say, that's

it for tonight. We only got one chapter tonight. And they'd be

begging for the next chapter. Because it was such a good

story. And then of course, you bring it to life when I love

reading out loud anyway. So that was kind of fun. So yeah,

telling stories, reading stories with heart, whatever it is, it

can make such a difference to somebody's life experience of a

situation. So love it. That's great. This is fun. Is there now

you have a podcast as well. Yes, called creative genius. We do. I

am looking forward to perhaps being on that. I think. I think

we've got it booked. I can't remember. And but tell me what

it what is it mostly interviews? Or is it you or it is

some interviews, and there are some conversations

that Aaron and I have, we talk about things that are happening

in our business or happening in the industry. And I think it's

interesting to hear behind the scenes, because she's worked

with me 18 years now. So we have this long history of working

together. And we have had our ups and downs, of course, but

we're really close. And we have a great working relationship.

And it's because we both know what our roles are. And we don't

have to worry about each other the other person is they will do

their job. Yeah. And it's really interesting sharing some of the

things that we found along the way, maybe building the team

running into issues with Team things that are maybe

frustrating. But really interestingly, I would say this

is my second business. This time I learned from my first

mistakes. And this time, I believe that we have an amazing

team. And most of our people have been with us for years

years.

And that speaks that speaks volumes. Actually,

it really does. Yeah, tells you how much I had to

learn from the last time. Well, and

I think that's great that you can see that that

you you've grown and you become a different person in a way,

right. So yeah, so cool. What would you say? Was your biggest

aha along the way? About yourself? Oh, gosh.

I would say that one of the biggest things that I

learned was how resilient I was and how much grit I had. Because

there were times that even my husband said to me, you need to

go get a job. And I looked at him and I said, How long have

you been married to me? I am unemployable. No way anybody's

going to employ me. So I need to figure this out. And so every

time I hit that wall, I would look at it and say, okay, remove

the emotions from this and think about what I can do to fix the

problem. And that has always served me well. And I would say

the other thing I think is really important is to have

contingency plans. We have that's not my nature. I'm such

an optimist, and I think a lot of entrepreneurs are yes, and we

tend to look at things with the rose colored glasses, and we

don't look at the contingency. And I'll give you a great

example of this. We this is 2020 and February, taking a group of

our clients to Portland, Oregon to see a friend of mine who used

to be a client. And he had 35 people on his team. And we said,

Okay, we want to show your business and have you have had

those employees, our clients come and see your operations,

because they'll learn so much. And while we were there, he said

to one of our smaller groups, he said, Well, what are you doing

to plan for COVID? And we looked at him when he said, What do you

mean? He said, it's going to shut down the United States.

This is February. Yes. Yeah. And I said, I don't know. And I

literally was stymied, I had no idea. But he had already

planned. He knew who his layoffs were going to be. He was going

to cut his staff, he was going to cut the salaries by 10%. He

knew what expenses to cut. He had ordered laptops for all of

his people. They had policies for working from home, all of

these things were in place by February of 2020. Wow. And so

sure enough, we were we were kind of born by hand, but we

still didn't have that plan. Until really April or May. And

even then it was not fully fleshed out. But he had his all

together. And I've learned so much just from him watching him

have a contingency plan.

Yeah, that's That's amazing. Actually, that

crazy smart. Yeah, that's really interesting. Most people weren't

like him, that's for sure. Interesting. Wow. Well, this has

been fascinating. And I love finding out about my, my guess

stories and and their journeys and and love the fact that you

get it that relationships are important. And that's the thing

that I think overrides everything else. So thank you

for your insights. Thank you for your sharing your your

information with this as well. One last question. And I

sometimes ask this of my of my guests, sometimes they don't,

but I feel I want to ask you. Two parts. And first part is,

like, I love curiosity. It's my favorite word. And before that,

you could probably tell because I was asking different things

around the globe about you instead of just staying focused.

So curiosity, do you believe it's innate? Or learned? And

what are you most curious about yourself these days? So part

one, part two? Well, I

think curiosity is innate. I think we all have it.

We're born with it. And that's what we have as children. And we

lose that as we get older, I think. And I think we can

rekindle that very, very easily. And the second part of the

question, make sure I've got it correct. Is that, how am I using

that for myself?

Now, what are you most curious about today?

Well, what am I most curious about? I am curious

about lots of things my curiosity has grown over the

years. And, for example, one of the books I'm reading right now

is called 2030. So I am looking forward to see what is going to

happen in the world in the next seven years, because we have to

plan ahead that contingency contingency plan that we talked

about earlier. So I believe that that is really important for us

to think about. So I would say curiosity about the future.

Thank you.

Thank you for that. That's fun. And thank you

for being an amazing guest. Thank you to my audience for

being here and being loyal. Please. If you like what you

heard, please go. I will put Gail's information in the show

notes. And I think it's going to be pro collective right. Yeah,

pro collective.com. Is that pro collective

pro collective? Is that URL is pro collective.

Okay. And yeah, so that will be there. Please.

Take a look at what the work that she's doing. And if you if

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