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11 - Justin Got Covid
Episode 11 • 21st June 2022 • Parts Department • Justin Brouillette & Jem Freeman
00:00:00 00:46:00

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Justin satiates his FOMO from Jem getting Covid, Jem reports on the Tool Show and the beauty of flying headspace. Both make big progress on their product lines and Dall-E is induced.

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Please note: Show notes contains affiliate links.

  • Justin got Covid
  • Baby Pants update
  • Tool shopping - industry update - thinking about 5-10 years ahead?
  • Intuition vs Excel - or why haven't I bought a Prusa yet?
  • Flying headspace - sketchbook! 🤝
  • Planning Products with Scarce Materials
  • Diary - End of planned time but have more quotes to do?
  • Making it - Aaron 😢 (Note: Death discussed)
  • Dall-E Mini

Accountabilibuddies

  • KittaParts v2 - ahhhhh it works!
  • Nack Wall Kits - Kitting

SUPPORT THE SHOW


Show Info


HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter | Instagram | More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC | Instagram | More Links

Transcripts

Justin:

This is my favorite by far baby pants with metal ducting for legs,

Justin:

especially the middle one is fantastic.

Justin:

Can you hear me nice?

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Plenty of cough syrup.

Justin:

I guess bill, mostly after the fever broke, I've been much better.

Justin:

More morale wise, I guess, to like 16 hours of it was low grade,

Justin:

but just fever is never fun.

Justin:

Sweating and cold and sweating and cold and

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

How long have you been down?

Jem:

A couple of days.

Justin:

a sore throat on Sunday, Monday felt great,

Justin:

tested positive and then fever.

Justin:

Yeah, my wife, but at the same time.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

It's been fun.

Justin:

The weird things of like, just trying to get medicine, normal cold

Justin:

medicine, when you have a virus, you have all these delivery services,

Justin:

but like all of it's out of stock and you can't get people to just

Justin:

deliver you cough you can't go get it.

Justin:

I don't weird.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

I decided, we needed symmetry in everything we do.

Justin:

So I figured I would also get COVID so that we could have this fairness

Justin:

and everything we this podcast.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

I appreciate that.

Jem:

Thanks.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

different

Justin:

Yeah Are you

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Good,

Jem:

good?

Jem:

too much to not getting

Jem:

I guess I've

Jem:

but other than that, pretty good.

Jem:

I had a series of like child wake ups and then a faulty smoke

Jem:

alarm going off at 4:00 AM.

Jem:

So I was just like, I rolled out of bed at four 30, I say, all right.

Jem:

Let's go to work.

Jem:

hear

Justin:

Well day both been exhausted and like falling asleep at like 7:00

Justin:

PM, one night, which is strange for me.

Justin:

And then last night I couldn't fall

Justin:

do

Justin:

had enough sleep.

Justin:

Now

Jem:

Have you seen

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

I was thinking last week.

Jem:

Timecode when I drink coffee and then make it

Justin:

that sounds neurotic though.

Jem:

as I was laughing

Jem:

maybe I'm enjoying your audio edits,

Justin:

I should

Jem:

are very good.

Justin:

glad that the last episode makes sense, because I was a little

Justin:

bit in a COVID fever finishing it.

Justin:

I was like I'm glad Jem listened to this because that whole like mental

Justin:

confusion thing

Justin:

is very true, especially when you're in the heat of the fever part.

Jem:

looking to this weeks.

Jem:

See how we

Justin:

It's just like only Don talking.

Don:

Let me loose!

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

I liked the fact that Don made an appearance

Jem:

so have you been in work, space at all?

Jem:

You've just been recovery mode.

Justin:

like

Justin:

little bit.

Justin:

I've been trying ahead a bit of a tussle with trying to get

Justin:

the Prusa to work remotely and lucky Ricky got in and reset it.

Justin:

But I've been sending some of the baby pants.

Justin:

Which just continues to have issues with weird things.

Justin:

like The minor changes that you can do to all of a sudden then have,

Justin:

it's called like overhang, right?

Justin:

it's like printing and you try to rely on the space below

Jem:

yeah.

Justin:

of like the slicer software, it doesn't really

Justin:

show you what's going to happen.

Justin:

So why it's so irrelevant to call it baby pants, but on the butt side, right.

Justin:

That's where we're getting weird overhanging mess basically.

Justin:

And it just looks like squiggly lines that don't fall into a good situation.

Justin:

The alternative is support or change your design and If it's printing fine until all

Justin:

my tests were printing fine until I was like, let's do the final one and then it's

Jem:

Cool.

Jem:

So of course

Jem:

you're printing in a controlled box.

Jem:

Aren't you like your temperature control?

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

I mean, it's controlled by only what the Prusa creates.

Justin:

It's not any additional features, but it should be actually pretty dang good.

Justin:

There's also this whole thing I didn't understand prior to

Justin:

getting the Prusa early was you can get moisture in your filament.

Justin:

And then that causes basically many explosions as it's coming out.

Justin:

You know, like your toothpaste situation, where you squeeze

Justin:

it, it goes to that basically.

Jem:

those talk of, they said the treasure last week, because a lot

Jem:

of what we saw was printing yeah,

Jem:

plywood

Jem:

we ran technicians

Jem:

for beers and one of them was talking building

Jem:

haven't

Jem:

for their

Justin:

Yeah

Jem:

I think they were running a Markforged X seven,

Jem:

so super fancy printer.

Jem:

But yeah, a big I think they'll, they'll critical of how

Jem:

it

Jem:

filament was shipped and that they'd made an even more moisture proof

Jem:

container for it to be stolen in.

Jem:

But yeah, I didn't know that previously, that that was

Justin:

definitely adds some complication.

Justin:

It'd be

Justin:

I

Justin:

tests on our

Justin:

of I that anyway.

Justin:

drying

Justin:

oven.

Justin:

There's all these different factors that I

Justin:

filament

Justin:

To have to deal with it.

Justin:

just

Justin:

deal

Jem:

Totally.

Jem:

Well, yeah, production printings, a different game, right?

Jem:

To just prototyping bits and bobs on it.

Jem:

Very

Justin:

an

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I'm very curious to hear about this tool show.

Justin:

How was this?

Jem:

it was good.

Jem:

I got more out

Jem:

it

Jem:

I was going partly for fun.

Jem:

When, you know, a bit of a work trip with my friend will have probably mentioned

Jem:

he's getting into printing in a big way.

Jem:

And so he was going, so we went together.

Jem:

It was a good thing, but yeah, I wasn't expecting to, come back with

Jem:

a machine tool or I didn't even have any really specific areas that I was

Jem:

looking to research other than getting some new tooling suppliers for like

Jem:

the thread mill that we use on the pencil sharpener, which got confiscated

Jem:

off me and security anecdotally.

Jem:

That was fun.

Jem:

Um,

Justin:

Of it then

Justin:

I didn't know you made through.

Jem:

not, they took it off me, thankfully it was a, a chipped tool and

Jem:

another but now I got more out of it.

Jem:

So

Jem:

I to try

Jem:

with like the Autodesk who were there

Jem:

those kinds places

Jem:

reps and just checked out a

Jem:

show

Jem:

groundbreaking, but it was really good it wasn't those knives

Jem:

of woodwork or timber there.

Jem:

it's all I'd like to see

):

Jem, It's called Turning.

Jem:

the world.

Justin:

disappointing, but it's don't I like seeing the difference

Justin:

too, but it's like, they're going to, your current better haven't been

Justin:

in this space since uh, of bunch of

Justin:

I bought the router in 2017 and I went to a, basically a woodworking

Justin:

to

Justin:

routers there and it was like the best place to

Justin:

in that space

Justin:

makers I

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

since then, I've basically that's pretty

Justin:

like

Justin:

one show.

Justin:

It's, it's mostly metal and now I'm kind of like, oh, both.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's cool.

Jem:

It's just nice to be exposed to different things.

Jem:

But yeah it was interesting kind of walking around the show with

Jem:

the lens of which be around in five because like 3d additive moving

Jem:

definitely down the road and be like, cool.

Jem:

If invested X A valuable

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

in

Jem:

years time.

Jem:

But that was cool.

Jem:

I was gonna production, the 3d

Justin:

no expert at it.

Justin:

I've kind of

Justin:

the quality

Justin:

I basically ignored it all through school because was like my opinion sh know, crap.

Justin:

think today like

Justin:

basically if you picked it up, fall apart expensive.

Justin:

Like the type we had I, it just

Justin:

ask you about last year or so, I've gotten the FDM FFF style where it's

Justin:

basically a little Play-Doh extruder.

Justin:

And after watching that for so long, it's both impressive, but also seems

Justin:

really archaic in a certain way.

Justin:

You know, it's like if we, if we had that idea in laser printing, for

Justin:

example, we would be waiting all day for one piece of paper to come out.

Justin:

You know, like if it only came out of one little thing, like, can

Justin:

we do the laser printer version of this, where it comes out?

Justin:

Just like, you know, real quick, It's got like a bajillion little ink heads to

Justin:

a plotter, I'm hoping that's the kind of advancement because I feel even kind of

Justin:

weird trying to go about making production parts for like the dust boot on this one.

Justin:

Like it keeps thinking, do I need to invest in a better printer?

Justin:

Is thing to doing it with?

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

But

Jem:

Oh, that's yeah.

Jem:

That's what I was going to ask

Jem:

Um

Jem:

How do you, cause I said

Justin:

yeah

Jem:

How do you go about processing?

Jem:

that because can't put a normal

Justin:

yeah to be honest, I've never considered selling it

Justin:

as a service because of this.

Justin:

It doesn't seem like a professional service to me because it's so easy

Justin:

to take off the shelf and print and I don't see us making any ROI on.

Justin:

Printing other people's things like it's just so for other people to CNC hourly

Justin:

our intention of buying printers in the first place was kind of like

Justin:

Saunders always talks about making things for your business to improve it.

Justin:

But then all of a sudden it was like, oh, we could potentially

Justin:

make these couple parts for our products we're thinking about.

Justin:

And those seem pretty durable, like basically weird funnels and things

Justin:

like that for dust collection is kind of where we've ended up with it.

Justin:

And I'm not sure yet that's, my plan as of right now.

Justin:

And if it proves to be either not high enough quality or durable or something,

Justin:

but I mean, we've been using it and it's.

Justin:

It seems incredibly durable at this point.

Justin:

I'm expecting it to last for quite a while.

Justin:

Like those little port dust boot ports.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I'm sure there'll be another step.

Justin:

A big consideration for me is if we're selling 10 of these a week, for some

Justin:

reason, thankfully, we'll be buying more printers is my only thought

Justin:

to it at this

Justin:

point.

Jem:

But how, like, how do you like say you're making it printing parts for your

Jem:

own product line, a product line yourself?

Jem:

That 11 hours of

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yes.

Jem:

It's the cheap,

Jem:

where

Jem:

a

Jem:

I

Jem:

that?

Jem:

Like, I'm just through it now, do assume that one day you'll

Jem:

have to pay an injection molded parts and then you price it now as

Jem:

to or

Jem:

part?

Jem:

Or do

Jem:

it would

Jem:

alley right on printer some value?

Jem:

Yeah, I've always been because just the time involved

Jem:

for

Jem:

of, it's almost free discharge for bit a resin plastic whatever is.

Jem:

And imagine

Justin:

real.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I don't answers.

Justin:

don't really consider it.

Justin:

in some of products think we're selling is,

Jem:

and

Justin:

charge the hour be beneficial,

Justin:

an or

Jem:

Yep.

Justin:

in contrast

Justin:

it It would

Justin:

on that like It's it's

Justin:

don't usually have a lot of interest in that kind of pumping of parts out.

Justin:

But the, that the electricity costs would be a lot more of a consideration,

Justin:

but I think it uses 180 Watts an hour, you know, at full printing.

Justin:

So it's pretty minimal and really you're just considering the filament

Jem:

I suppose this is sort of come to my mind because in the last year

Jem:

we've gone from a single CNC machine to three, and then I've also given

Jem:

up my role as laid machinists.

Jem:

So Johnny's Slade machinists.

Jem:

We have an employee who runs up to three machines simultaneously,

Jem:

and I've been a bit confused about how to, how to price that

Justin:

Yeah, no.

Jem:

it's like, yes, quoted independently as if it's running machine.

Jem:

But then in reality, know, in a dream

Jem:

track of the at some point

Jem:

he John's reporting his time.

Jem:

So he's reporting his time as an operator, but he's also

Jem:

um

Jem:

Cameron's time and Trinity's time and the

Jem:

keeping

Jem:

that are doing

Jem:

on

Jem:

terms I mean the simplest way about is just three machines and an operator

Jem:

at the same yeah, it's something that perplexes me a little bit and I haven't

Jem:

worked out how to deal with it, but,

Justin:

I've said before.

Justin:

I feel really strange that we're still not data.

Justin:

I think it's probably going to come yeah, but we stringent about And I

Justin:

would, I would question of, so I'm

Justin:

of

Justin:

running

Justin:

that's that's kind of four

Justin:

tracking?

Justin:

I

Justin:

running

Justin:

my best answer was you can basically keep that time.

Justin:

And so that way we would basically like modify it after the fact.

Justin:

But in terms of like calculating your time for costing and stuff like that, it's

Justin:

honestly do you get to that final number?

Justin:

And the only thing I can think is you have to add it all.

Justin:

And divide it back down to like, what's the total amounts, but sometimes

Justin:

those numbers then become crazy.

Justin:

like not reasonable hourly

Jem:

yeah, yeah,

Justin:

And I don't get that either.

Justin:

So we need somebody that has a business degree.

Justin:

I think what's your business manager say?

Jem:

multiple machines.

Jem:

Sarah and I kind of in the same boat, we don't quite know how to deal with it.

Jem:

In the past, we've always just applied a similar hourly rate to a

Jem:

machine the machine tool upright.

Jem:

So we've for ourselves and we've of basically

Justin:

that's kind of what I did too.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Hopefully somebody has.

Justin:

Answer to this, because that

Justin:

is an interesting, I mean, I don't want it to be super complicated though.

Justin:

Like

Jem:

No, no,

Justin:

the same thing you give.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Like I think, solved in the sense, but also something that's a curiosity of,

Jem:

like, is there a better way to do this?

Jem:

I dunno.

Justin:

that we

Justin:

to do any of that data tracking the first place make sure that

Justin:

accidentally not making money.

Jem:

Yes.

Jem:

Totally.

Justin:

And

Justin:

the just

Justin:

there was in

Justin:

just kind applied the same right To

Justin:

wildly wrong.

Justin:

out

Justin:

three times less than it been, you know, my hourly rate.

Justin:

And I just never really caught it.

Justin:

making way more profit job than we

Justin:

I

Justin:

problem, right.

Justin:

That I could see being a way bigger problem.

Justin:

every year you're like, well, home money.

Justin:

be

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

And that's the good thing about that?

Jem:

Or I guess if you don't track it, you don't know.

Jem:

Or like, if there's a question that you can't answer, it's probably

Jem:

worth answering it just to make sure that everything's okay.

Jem:

Working out.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

So I

Justin:

haven't, you brought up

Jem:

A will and I were chatting about this last week when we're up there, if

Jem:

the, conundrum of growing a business to a point where, you know, and I've

Jem:

mentioned this like about my discomfort, about investing in tools now without

Jem:

sort of some level team approval.

Jem:

But we're discussing that like, cool.

Jem:

If, you know, I've built a business to a point very much just on intuition

Jem:

and making things up on the fly and doing what felt right at the time.

Jem:

And how do you balance that?

Jem:

You know, almost 15 years of growth and intuition.

Jem:

Against a budget in a spreadsheet of like, kind of where we're at Like

Jem:

we're planning 20, 23 financial year budget, is a fairly new process for us.

Jem:

year, just gone.

Jem:

Totally value doing a budget forward.

Jem:

And, but conflicted against month, the old may, would be just like, cool.

Jem:

I'm buying

Jem:

that

Jem:

I'm buying a laser cutter

Jem:

machines

Jem:

no again, no answer.

Jem:

It was

Jem:

have

Jem:

that got going moment, but um,

Justin:

than lot things, but,

Justin:

budget going into like a sliding world was probably a pretty good

Justin:

understanding the

Justin:

It be the right idea and definitely something I keep stable,

Jem:

Yeah,

Justin:

yesterday

Justin:

not considering buying any new trying to keep the ones we

Jem:

totally.

Justin:

fairly treacherous at the moment with the way that especially, I feel

Justin:

the U S economies are going right now.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

And I think that's a very wise, sorry, safe approach to, to

Jem:

be honest or retain your cash.

Justin:

Not that a purse is going to break your most businesses budget.

Jem:

I know, but everything stacks up.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

I think, oh, it's going tangenting here, but I think, the

Jem:

most valuable things I got out of

Jem:

that trip

Jem:

travel show was flying, being the air an hour, each way.

Jem:

I'd forgotten how amazing that Headspace is.

Jem:

Like it's the most unaccountable time the phone's off you strapped in a seat

Jem:

with like the sketchbook comes out and I got productive, critical design

Jem:

thinking done in those two hours of flight in like the last two months.

Jem:

Like it was just so good to just punch out some work is awesome.

Justin:

as well.

Jem:

in a fever just like away, like page after page are disgusting, I wouldn't

Jem:

I imagine it Especially

Jem:

but

Jem:

we're going on a little

Justin:

You're like rain man all over around you people next Like, what is

Justin:

And

Jem:

yeah.

Justin:

so much

Jem:

I'm still not

Jem:

like well

Justin:

time than I have

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

Yeah,

Jem:

situation

Jem:

some machines on the way up.

Jem:

And I designed some products on the way back.

Jem:

It was good.

Jem:

It's a good time.

Justin:

Oh boy.

Jem:

Yeah, that's

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I love that too.

Justin:

I haven't flown

Justin:

just at

Justin:

2019

Justin:

Have you had any challenge with trying to plan your product costing

Justin:

or just like design features basically based on having scarce materials,

Justin:

has this been a thing and now you've changed some of your stuff, but is it

Justin:

been continuously changing for you.

Jem:

I'm going to say, no, there's certain materials that we've run out

Jem:

of and we'll probably never get again.

Jem:

Like, I think we machined the last sheet of 18 male or made a radiata plywood.

Jem:

Which is a product we've been using for 10 plus years.

Justin:

Just pine, right?

Jem:

yeah, it's as

Justin:

Basically.

Jem:

and and it's not that we can't get it at all.

Jem:

Like we could go out and find it again, but our supplier has stopped

Jem:

bringing in that particular product.

Jem:

And it was just a really good moment for us to say, cool.

Jem:

All right.

Jem:

That's the last of the south American radiata, we're going to get, let's

Jem:

switch that to Australian local stock.

Jem:

So it's not that it's impossible for us to get it.

Jem:

It was just, yeah, a real good

Jem:

what you're

Justin:

assuming Yes

Justin:

then.

Jem:

yeah, it's more expensive to get the local stuff.

Jem:

And yeah.

Jem:

There's challenges, but nine nothing.

Jem:

ball stuff being

Jem:

Like the new, kid of parts update won't have any film place plywood in it because

Jem:

that's Birch we still have access to.

Jem:

But I expect it to run out as well point, or just get like it's already gone up I

Justin:

saying

Justin:

us to

Justin:

Chosen to troublesome products, materials out of Yeah, I like yeah.

Justin:

we set off with the knack so

Justin:

line

Jem:

and

Justin:

stupidly expensive

Justin:

things like these just way that it hangs on the wall, kind of joinery, I just

Justin:

I don't know how to make alternatives.

Justin:

That would be as or as reliable and to change it testing it

Justin:

in a significant way, time.

Justin:

I wouldn't want to put that in people's hands and not know how it works.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I overthink all these things, I would rather that than something falling

Justin:

apart on somebody where I've kind of come to is just trying to go with

Justin:

basically the same thing you're doing.

Justin:

It's not a local product necessarily, but like the apple fly is I

Justin:

understand they're going to keep doing everything they can to keep making it.

Justin:

And the core is Birch, but the price will go up and they'll

Justin:

keep finding a way to get it.

Justin:

I don't know if that means like blood money or what, but hopefully not.

Justin:

I feel like they're a better company than that.

Justin:

You know, trying to figure out how to get that here.

Justin:

That's the only thing I can think of is to do that or to not make like the plywood

Justin:

boxes that we've been making for it.

Justin:

And just trying to finally biting the bullet of that's the way we have to go.

Justin:

There's no, like, hoping.

Justin:

Baltic Birch comes back.

Jem:

Yeah, it's hard.

Jem:

Isn't it?

Jem:

When you've made a whole bunch of design decisions around the qualities of

Jem:

Birch and then to try and sub that out

Justin:

yeah.

Jem:

is challenging.

Jem:

We're running into that now because with, you know, I suppose at some

Jem:

level, we're just making a flat out kind of ethical decision to go call.

Jem:

Let's get local materials rather than imported materials, well aware that

Jem:

that's going to introduce all sorts of production challenges, which are

Jem:

already running into like the hoop Pines, nowhere near as consistent in

Jem:

terms of its thickness across the sheet.

Jem:

So we're doing do much more sort of sanding tolerance, control, new challenges

Jem:

with like setting the material thickness to start, like where do you pick the

Jem:

nominal material thickness out of a sheet and then what the sand to, and

Jem:

also at such tricks and challenges, even just little things like Ola Val sort

Jem:

of route a manual rabbit table tooling is set up for 12 and 18 mil stock.

Jem:

Whereas all the hoop pine sort of 12.7 and 19 like subtle variations in thickness.

Jem:

Alright, retooling resetting up resetting processes.

Jem:

But yeah, coming back to your point, like just structural details, like

Jem:

I'm doing some product development for a client at the moment, we machined

Jem:

parts this week that Ben looked at was like, oh, I comfortable about how

Jem:

run

Jem:

Baton engages with that rebate.

Jem:

Like, the hoop is going to de-laminate.

Jem:

I was like, oh yeah, no, that's a really good point.

Jem:

That is a risk.

Jem:

We test that thinking about it now, it's like, there's definitely

Jem:

Birch structuring, like, but assumptions going on there.

Jem:

Like if that had been machine in Bert, I don't think anyone would have

Jem:

questioned it, but because it's in this material, that's subtly Waco.

Jem:

Like nothing can compete with that, like insane toughness of, but,

Justin:

I was curious

Justin:

and some don't feel

Justin:

we always I feel

Justin:

even pre

Jem:

Um,

Justin:

And like voids.

Justin:

Do you have a

Jem:

yep.

Jem:

Yeah, definitely

Justin:

it after you cut the parts or

Jem:

depends on the project.

Jem:

I prefer not to feel anything the kind of stuff

Jem:

affecting the usability.

Jem:

Like it's a desktop or a tabletop there's that void, that's going to actually fill

Jem:

up with stuff then absolutely feel that.

Jem:

But if just purely aesthetic, like ingrain void that machine through, I'd to fill I

Jem:

feel like I being more to the material.

Jem:

this maybe

Jem:

I don't like the Phil

Jem:

started to anger in situation, yeah, certainly more, more voids in the

Jem:

coupon than we used to in the Birch.

Justin:

Yeah, That's for a structural scenario.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

It's

Justin:

that was going to be your answer, those features Cause

Justin:

some of those

Justin:

honest

Justin:

And it, it seems like you have over time,

Justin:

way

Justin:

move to those kind of other solutions that that you can get locally.

Justin:

Are

Jem:

recently, to be we've been, it's forced hand, which has

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yes.

Jem:

it's

Justin:

Got a ton of RFQ is of course the first couple of days of being home sick.

Justin:

Uh, I think I got like four on Monday.

Justin:

Some of them easy nos, but yes.

Justin:

That's not yeah, cutting some and I, I I battled this idea for out.

Justin:

I'm not strictly to my default diary times.

Justin:

Right.

Justin:

Like, like you've described, but I have had this a couple of times, be it any

Justin:

scenario it's R D quoting it's sales and I'm always one that's like when I'm in a

Justin:

flow of working that I don't ever want to leave that flow, like whatever that is.

Justin:

for example, like, even with quotes, it's like I'm in this

Justin:

head space of crunching numbers.

Justin:

What do you do when you hit the end of your, quoting block, but

Justin:

you have to close to do that.

Jem:

I

Jem:

feel

Jem:

like, oh, good question.

Jem:

I don't find flow.

Jem:

very often.

Jem:

I feel like I'm interrupted so regularly that I get dragged away.

Jem:

Before I have a chance to think, oh, I'd like to keep doing that.

Jem:

And then it's two hours later.

Jem:

I'm like, what was I doing?

Jem:

Ah, that's right.

Jem:

Oh, well, I'll finish that tomorrow.

Jem:

But yeah, I know.

Jem:

I think the way I've structured my default diary things and with

Jem:

some sort of logic all time.

Jem:

So my quoting window stops when lunch starts never on Down's tools

Jem:

and comes into the lunch room.

Jem:

And often I'll push through like halfway through lunch or even all

Jem:

the way through lunch to try and finish a quote to get it ready.

Jem:

So Sarah has got it to send after lunch.

Jem:

So like I stretch that time through lunch sometimes, but there's still kind of.

Jem:

I read them to the day that makes sense to put down whatever I'm doing.

Jem:

Same with R and D as people come the building, kind finishing

Jem:

my R and D time, there's nice.

Jem:

It'd be continue that Headspace, but I find it really breaks

Jem:

work

Jem:

and my rhythm as people into the building,

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

And

Jem:

breaks down the spice.

Jem:

I was eating and I move into the

Jem:

just

Jem:

sort of natural

Jem:

stick to

Justin:

I would like

Justin:

And uh, just independently day and kind of check in

Justin:

morning and

Justin:

done or something like that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

I, it's not important.

Justin:

I'm trying bash out for myself.

Justin:

I want to this?

Justin:

Or is the productivity more important?

Justin:

I think probably the schedule's probably because then I'm getting done what

Justin:

I've intended to and all but sometimes they don't, like I said I don't do.

Justin:

Like I don't have a production prep thing to do.

Justin:

we don't have a new job.

Justin:

And then I do stick through, but I think maybe, maybe the answer is when

Justin:

I have enough do in each of these segments, then you go with those,

Justin:

you go with the thing then the next block rather than sitting there.

Justin:

And, and it's, it's just a tough challenge because what happens when

Justin:

people are expecting quotes and you just keep, you can only get done to it.

Justin:

that time period.

Justin:

Like when he, I guess you just stay late.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Look, if you've promised someone something, yeah, I stay late.

Jem:

But I find the two hours a day, I get through quotes so much more

Jem:

consistently and people are waiting, like getting stuff much quicker

Jem:

than I used to be in the old model.

Jem:

In the old model stuff would sit for, weeks sometimes.

Justin:

Hm.

Jem:

And then I'd have, you know, huge rush of quoting and

Jem:

got a whole bunch of stuff out.

Jem:

And then as a result would have a huge rush of work.

Jem:

And then I would stop quoting because we were too busy and we'd have this, like

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

structure.

Jem:

By being strict and only doing those two hours a day or trying

Jem:

to it's really just flattened out production wives most part, yeah.

Jem:

Certainly helped in that respect.

Jem:

I think something that the other tool that I think could be useful,

Jem:

which you know, is probably a little different between you and I.

Jem:

In terms of, I'm trying to weave my team, I'm trying to sort of

Jem:

routine distraction where possible.

Jem:

So we have a structure in place of like for my key staff, we have a

Jem:

designated time every day where we check.

Jem:

For Sarah it's you know, 10, 15:00 AM Cole or Aaron it's,

Jem:

you know, eight, 15 the morning.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

and whether that's, you know, and we try and keep lists through each other.

Jem:

pretty

Jem:

like badgering each other throughout

Jem:

important

Jem:

like, it's not urgent, put it on the list, put on errands Lewis, it on John's list.

Jem:

And then at the pre designated a time we both know we're going chat, it's like,

Jem:

cool, what have you got on nothing today?

Jem:

Go carry on.

Jem:

Or like, yeah, I've got a few questions.

Jem:

And that's, I find that a really way to like,

Jem:

this

Jem:

distract each other, but also have a, known I dunno, do you, informally

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

the on slack

Justin:

be a lot more to Anyway, it was could never get anything accomplished when

Justin:

it was just like a, Hey, how do I fix

Jem:

yeah,

Jem:

is

Justin:

I totally see that.

Justin:

And I would try do same how

Justin:

to like home when we had more

Justin:

throughout the

Justin:

I'm distant,

Justin:

Just

Jem:

yeah, totally.

Justin:

there's less, it's almost like an office with a closed door.

Justin:

I think everybody's always been really respectful of trying to not

Justin:

be distracting with each other, but it just happens like you got the

Justin:

CNC running and there's a problem.

Justin:

And you're the one that did the cam, like who are you gonna go talk

Jem:

just Yeah.

Justin:

Um, yeah, I dunno some point I'm sure.

Justin:

And.

Justin:

yeah

Justin:

to have somebody else that's doing the cam probably as well as

Justin:

somebody else that's in between.

Justin:

You know, that's actually helping manage those things too.

Justin:

And that'll, that'll make a big difference get

Justin:

there.

Jem:

Did you listen to the

Jem:

could be tough

Justin:

I did,

Justin:

I was a little I guess hesitant, I didn't know how sad I was going to be.

Jem:

Were you sick at the

Justin:

What did I, is it less yesterday?

Justin:

I think I listened to it, kind of

Jem:

I

Justin:

playing with slicing, maybe pants and listening to

Justin:

that and uh, yeah, that was good.

Justin:

And yeah, I dunno.

Justin:

It's I mean, you could tell like Jimmy talking through his, his friend and Trump.

Justin:

yeah

Justin:

that he's very emotional.

Justin:

I can't imagine being able about it so soon after even

Justin:

communicate as much as he did.

Justin:

I have not heard that show before, so I don't know much

Justin:

about the other Bob Clagett.

Justin:

Is he the, I like to make stuff guy that's all right.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

don't really follow him much either, but no of him.

Justin:

I dunno.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

It really resonated.

Justin:

I've always had a huge gratitude towards anybody that's worked

Justin:

for us in almost everybody to a T has been incredibly dedicated.

Justin:

And I mean, we don't get into each other's personal lives much, but like

Justin:

when we're at work, it's respectful.

Justin:

And I say I have even love for a lot of them that have worked for us and.

Justin:

I definitely related to the feelings he was having of losing somebody

Justin:

and just trying always not take that granted, I think is a good memento,

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

definitely worth listening.

Jem:

which I

Jem:

um, Progress on the

Justin:

Yes.

Justin:

A little bit.

Justin:

I uh, that you were making progress on your, so I felt, I

Justin:

felt the peer pressure to continue.

Justin:

And I dug into the kits a little bit more in terms of playing with it.

Justin:

And especially like you said, in Shopify and I'm using this simple bundles plugin

Justin:

that I've been playing with and it.

Justin:

As with everything there's limitations on the bundle plugin with variance and

Justin:

really the thing that I think I'm striking up against now, do it in a more way is I

Justin:

wanted to be able to have kits that could use either vertical or horizontal panels

Justin:

as being an option you could choose.

Justin:

But as of yet, I can't figure out how to do that with this bundle plugin.

Justin:

So I'm sure I could,

Jem:

a

Justin:

you know, escape out of that and do it a different way.

Justin:

But I think I may have to just have like, I have one called

Justin:

like knack bowl apply kit.

Justin:

It might have to be horizontal or some kits may only be certain

Justin:

orientations or something like that.

Justin:

that's one of my weird constraints I'm running into, but I have multiple

Justin:

kits and I'm putting stuff into them, which is a big progress.

Justin:

I worked on some graphics.

Justin:

I think I might've sent that to you last week, too, where it's kind of

Justin:

taking all of the objects that go on the wall and then trying to make

Justin:

them into something that's scale representation of how much take up.

Justin:

And I'm going to try and put those on each of the objects in hope that that

Justin:

helps people understand how much they can throw onto each wall themselves.

Justin:

And the other thing I had a thought of is you could do

Justin:

automatic kind of discounting.

Justin:

And my whole intent is, you know, with a kit, your erases our cart value, right.

Justin:

also is a benefit to them if they order more at the same time.

Justin:

So I thought, well, if you buy a kit and you want to add something else, I

Justin:

think I can throw in like an automatic discount of those other things that

Justin:

happens at the same time, as long as it's kind of the right formula.

Justin:

It's amazing how you just try some of this stuff, like you've been

Justin:

saying you get, you get somewhere.

Justin:

He had some progress made.

Justin:

feels

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

It's like, like my canopy has, but it's being informed by the tool.

Jem:

And if the tool is Shopify and the constraints, what can I can and can't

Jem:

do I find yeah, super effective.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's great.

Jem:

That's fine.

Jem:

I really like your graphic style, by the way.

Justin:

Of that one.

Justin:

I sent you.

Jem:

Not just in general, like

Jem:

all the, all your graphic collateral on your website and

Jem:

bits and pieces you've sent me.

Jem:

It's nice.

Justin:

Thanks.

Justin:

I'm probably a one trick pony in terms of, I don't have a lot of variability in it.

Justin:

It's kind of like, my style is the one style I have.

Jem:

Great.

Jem:

So it needs to be, I remember when I was studying industrial design at uni

Jem:

and I remember a comment from one of the, I think it was a graphic design

Jem:

lecturer that we were industrial.

Jem:

done this sort of publication outcome.

Jem:

And I remember a graphic design lecturer about how he really liked

Jem:

limits with

Jem:

the graphic

Jem:

of

Jem:

design cohort, very sort of

Jem:

people would

Jem:

graphic

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

weren't really aware

Jem:

reason

Jem:

sort of like I think he described it as navel

Jem:

um Let's sort with industry stuff, just how do we communicate

Jem:

ideas in play and effectively,

Jem:

design thing

Jem:

in

Jem:

my

Jem:

to

Jem:

in rhino using hatch

Justin:

I definitely know my And there was lot they

Justin:

of you're describing in architecture, where it not capitalize the first

Justin:

design underscores all place no I'm sure I of that too,

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

call

Justin:

my brother was in a portion design school at one point is a

Justin:

of, in looking at and like And I remember he told me some years ago,

Justin:

really like a Nack product has turned

Justin:

feel

Justin:

or something, a more straightforward name basically like an

Justin:

Ikea, crazy, you know, like.

Justin:

Something that doesn't really make any sense.

Justin:

And he was like, I don't know.

Justin:

I don't really think you're that kind of person.

Justin:

I think you name it straightforward as possible.

Justin:

And that's been the easiest path for me after that.

Justin:

It was like, I don't need to over-complicate it what it is.

Justin:

Not really like innovating names here.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

That's good advice.

Justin:

All right.

Justin:

So has I say your kid of parts is a

Jem:

Kayla Kiva?

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Has made some good progress.

Jem:

I definitely feel the pressure of this.

Jem:

Like as the week progresses, I'm like, shit, I really need to make some progress.

Jem:

So it's very effective.

Jem:

Made some solid progress yesterday.

Jem:

I'd already committed to dimensions, but sort of finally

Jem:

modeled up all the components.

Jem:

The new components infusion gave them part numbers, skews, whatever.

Jem:

And then when Josh got in yesterday, I was like, cool, here's all the parts.

Jem:

And here's the starting configurations that I want.

Jem:

And he muddle them up so I could start rendering and thinking.

Jem:

Getting them online.

Jem:

So it's a few, few more components than the existing good apart system.

Jem:

So it need to sort of think how is communicating the different

Jem:

configurations and we'll probably offer a few different kit sizes this

Jem:

time, sort of small, medium, large, rather than just one big kit yeah.

Jem:

And that's That was good.

Jem:

for

Jem:

scared when I I

Jem:

are mad it

Jem:

like iteration bought one last or whatever oh, no, I missed out on.

Jem:

Yeah, but I don't know to transition to any product, there's always going

Jem:

to be that stop one and start another, and we're not the first hard stop.

Jem:

to service new ones, not backwards compatible, but

Justin:

like a well-known sunset date, you know, we'll do it another And there'll

Justin:

have

Justin:

people that see it.

Justin:

and people someone who's had a year training.

Justin:

And I sent a bunch of warnings,

Jem:

that.

Jem:

feeling

Justin:

this there's you're going I don't know it's just going to happen.

Justin:

And I, I have the same

Justin:

a We'll continue

Justin:

I try to limit kinds of problems

Justin:

part

Justin:

a want people mad.

Justin:

it wears on you, I think.

Justin:

And probably if we just find a way to ourselves when you make those decisions,

Justin:

it's easier to make the best ones for the business when you don't have to

Justin:

directly the customer service messages,

Jem:

totally.

Jem:

Yup,

Justin:

I do all of them.

Jem:

yup.

Justin:

um,

Justin:

Yeah, I know that, that, I'm sure that's driven way too many of my

Justin:

thoughts over the last year about the wall and stuff like that.

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

Official.

Justin:

That's good.

Justin:

I, it seems like you just like rocketed from, it seemed like a big problem we were

Justin:

talking about with all the dimensions.

Justin:

Then new me seems to have the decent amount and then all of a

Justin:

sudden you were making parameters.

Justin:

So good

Jem:

just, just committing.

Jem:

And thanks.

Jem:

Feel YouTube fusion, rendering video by the way,

Jem:

I've been meaning to watch that

Jem:

fusion doesn't

Jem:

And I was

Jem:

to

Jem:

Cause I've thinking, I wonder what Justin knows about fusion rendering that

Justin:

Yeah

Jem:

sitting down yesterday afternoon to start rendering

Jem:

you

Jem:

it like, cool.

Jem:

I just put it on the other screen and just watch I think I'm across most

Jem:

of what you talked about, but then just being, seeing the way you were

Jem:

using those light admitting tubes

Justin:

Hmm.

Jem:

off camera, I was like, I'd played with light admitters

Jem:

a little bit, but never sort

Jem:

all

Jem:

it.

Jem:

Looking just terrible.

Jem:

And so I just persisted for an three minutes.

Jem:

I was like, oh actually, this this is nice.

Jem:

Like I can make this work.

Jem:

So that was cool.

Justin:

make it super easy.

Justin:

Like, know, you got

Jem:

yeah,

Justin:

I

Justin:

final rendering that looks okay.

Jem:

yeah,

Justin:

can make while

Justin:

I'm glad it's somewhat helpful.

Justin:

It's pretty low views, but the people that have

Jem:

yeah.

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

of

Justin:

Dolly thing at

Jem:

to light it up too

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

This is going to be a mess.

Justin:

thing called Dali and it's like an AI app and you can

Justin:

type in what you wanted to say.

Justin:

And so I started off with CNC baby pants and it creates.

Justin:

and I was much

Justin:

combinations of those things.

Justin:

So this was pretty terrible.

Justin:

And you can, I'll probably post some of these videos where

Justin:

you can go watch the YouTube.

Justin:

This one's a little bit better.

Justin:

Baby pants with metal ducting for legs that are red.

Justin:

it's mostly just baby pants that look like red.

Justin:

This is my favorite by far baby pants with metal ducting for legs,

Justin:

especially the middle one is fantastic.

Justin:

Two podcast guys who are friends, the

Justin:

faces are disturbing.

Justin:

I think we'll have to use this one.

Justin:

It's like a, a bad expressionists , The, baby writing a spindle with

Justin:

red pants kind of disturbing.

Justin:

I think I have one more, an Australian guy named Jim with a robot and

Justin:

the faces are just so strange.

Justin:

You have to kind of your way through basically dos have their

Justin:

like, server that you gotta try it.

Justin:

If I did these kind of COVID fever.

Justin:

So you wouldn't be surprised that they're a little strange.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

I found that entertaining.

Jem:

Cool.

Jem:

I'll have a go at that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Jem:

Excellent.

Justin:

There you

Jem:

Very good.

Jem:

Nice.

Justin:

All right.

Justin:

What do you, next step on you?

Justin:

You've handed off kit of parts.

Justin:

it on its way?

Jem:

No, I haven't handed it off, but uh, I think next step

Jem:

is building an app Shopify.

Jem:

yeah Again, do what you're doing.

Jem:

Try and build out the variant logic.

Jem:

Hopefully these renders will help to find the kit like pot quantities and stuff like

Jem:

yeah, to overthink not make regrettable decisions either somewhere in the middle.

Jem:

I really want to get them out this month if I can,

Jem:

we need a bit of web

Jem:

funny

Jem:

and also aware of like, now that I've of announced what doing on Instagram.

Jem:

I don't

Jem:

So

Jem:

they were about month, I don't to all uh, waiting for product that then doesn't

Justin:

yeah,

Jem:

created a bit of back pressure for myself.

Justin:

How do you, all,

Justin:

try not it

Justin:

do you do any type of pre-orders

Jem:

no.

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Oh yeah.

Justin:

a

Justin:

update.

Justin:

Web

Justin:

I always have

Justin:

pretty

Justin:

at the end of these is I went to order a bunch of materials for

Justin:

baby pants to production runs

Jem:

and

Justin:

I'm

Justin:

on my path hopefully finding some

Justin:

buying something this drop

Justin:

definitely, I don't imagine going for them.

Justin:

so

Jem:

or

Jem:

To have in one

Justin:

yeah, hopefully, So I may do some form of like a, I don't

Justin:

want it extensively, but some form of backorders, so we know

Justin:

how much to kind of stock for and,

Jem:

Cool.

Justin:

and cause.

Justin:

And the printing, like we all know I've talked about, it's going to take

Justin:

some time to kind of keep up with that.

Justin:

yeah.

Justin:

I don't know.

Justin:

It's it'll come as it comes, I think, I've never not shipped a product

Justin:

to somebody of yet dozen years.

Justin:

So not that anybody knows

Jem:

sure Okay.

Jem:

Have you thought about doing a pre presale for baby pants?

Justin:

Yeah.

Justin:

Sorry.

Justin:

That's kind of what I was thinking.

Justin:

It was probably do some type of controlled backward

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Probably sell a few that we have stock for.

Justin:

Make the messaging clear that this is going to take a few weeks because

Justin:

the supply chain is a nightmare.

Justin:

The same thing that I've been ordering to test all of a sudden

Justin:

was like six to seven weeks out.

Justin:

And I was like, what?

Justin:

Wait, what, what?

Justin:

Now that I want it.

Justin:

It's not there.

Justin:

It has a little frustrated with that.

Jem:

Yeah.

Justin:

Hey, it is what it is.

Justin:

Yeah,

Jem:

this

Jem:

Awesome.

Jem:

sniffling mess

Jem:

I'll

Justin:

Off we go.

Jem:

I have, yeah.

Jem:

Feeling better in nighttime.

Justin:

think this helped a little bit.

Justin:

I was afraid my voice would go out, but I'm feeling all

Jem:

You seem pretty.

Jem:

seem pretty good.

Justin:

I haven't had a lot of talking, so maybe it's just been built up.

Justin:

Yeah, yeah.

Justin:

Have a good weekend.

Jem:

Yeah.

Jem:

you too.

Jem:

Take care.

Jem:

Bye.

Justin:

But

Jem:

fall into hate.

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