In this episode Tammy sits down with Dr. Tracy Hutchinson—author, professor, and psychotherapist specializing in narcissistic abuse and family trauma recovery—to explore the lasting impact of high-conflict parenting.

If you’ve ever struggled with self-worth, emotional regulation, or feeling unseen in your relationships, this conversation will help you understand why.

Dr. Hutchinson breaks down what it really means to grow up with a high-conflict parent—highlighting the difference between occasional dysfunction and chronic emotional instability—and how these patterns shape the way you think, feel, and relate to others as an adult.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

1. What defines a high-conflict parent and how it differs from a “difficult” parent
2. How narcissistic abuse and emotional neglect impact self-worth
3. Why hypervigilance and anxiety often stem from early family dynamics
4. The long-term effects of relational trauma on adult relationships
5. Why emotional validation is essential for healing
6. How to begin rebuilding self-trust, self-awareness, and self-love

This episode is especially powerful for those who:

✔ grew up in emotionally chaotic or unpredictable environments

✔ struggle with people pleasing, anxiety, or hypervigilance

✔ are healing from narcissistic abuse or relational trauma

✔ want to understand the root of their emotional patterns

Healing doesn’t start with fixing yourself.

👉 It starts with understanding what you experienced… and how it shaped you.

🔗 Connect with Dr. Tracy Hutchinson

Stay connected and learn more about Dr. Hutchinson’s work:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drtracyhutchinson/

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drtracyhutchinson/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@drtracyhutchinson

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Well, hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.

Today we have with us another very special guest, Dr. Tracy Hutchinson.

She is an author, professor, and psychotherapist specializing in narcissistic abuse and family trauma recovery.

She has served as an assistant professor at multiple universities and teaches at the graduate level at the College of William and Mary.

Her expertise has been featured in Vogue, the Associated Press, and across television and radio.

She's the author of Adult Children of High Conflict.

Parents, find freedom from your past, Heal the pain of toxic relational trauma, and cultivate lasting self love.

Wow.

It's funny.

Well, first of all, welcome, Dr. Hutchinson.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Oh, you are very welcome.

I love that you're.

I remember when I was writing my book, it was.

Had a really long title and people said, well, why do you.

Why do you need such a long title?

And I said, because people need to read the title of the book and know what's in the.

What they're getting.

Yes.

And I, And I. I just looked at that and I thought, take one piece out of that and it's not the same book.

Right, right, exactly.

So when you read the subtitle of it, it could, it could get you.

Because you're, you know, healing relational trauma or cultivating lasting self love and self respect because so many adult children of dysfunctional families struggle with low self worth, low self esteem.

I mean, it's just a measure of being in an emotionally invalidating environment.

So I think it's important to do.

But some people are like, that's a long title.

No, I think my.

I think I laughed because mine was like, helping.

Helping children of alcoholic backgrounds or something.

And then it was an educator's guide to identifying and empowering disconnected youth in the classroom.

And I was like, take one word out of there and tell me how it means the same thing.

I'm like, it doesn't.

Just doesn't.

Yeah, yeah, that's really important, Tammy, because, you know, as a professor in, like, you know, teaching graduate students for years, years, and I teach the DSM 5 TR.

We don't teach this in.

In graduate curricula.

You know, the.

These things are stumbled upon by, oh, my gosh, like, you know, this person has a podcast on dysfunctional families or, you know, decades of clinical experience where people are coming in, you start to uncover their histories and you see that it has to do with toxic family dynamics, why they're in the situation that they're in with whomever they attracted into their life, their partner, their.

Their Children, all types of things.

So it's just like, it's important.

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

I'm going to jump right back though, to the beginning of your book because I want you to explain to people because I had actually never heard the term high conflict parent.

I, I mean, I've heard dysfunctional family.

I've, I had just never heard it put.

I mean, and that's really what it is.

But explain in your words, in your terms, what exactly a high conflict, conflict parent.

So a high conflict parent is.

Can be looked at as being dysfunctional.

They could be looked at as being, you know, we use this term a lot.

Lindsay Gibson's work.

Emotionally immature.

But I like to look at.

There's a lot of conflict within the relationship.

This could be obvious.

It could be over.

Like take a person who has a.

Just a typical alcoholic parent.

There might be a lot of volatility emotionally and otherwise, a lot of fights.

It could be very overt.

But high conflict can also be very covert.

So it could be a parent or family member, in this case, a family member who has raised a child with a lot of emotional neglect.

Maybe they were not a part of their life.

Maybe they were in the bedroom a lot of the time during their childhood.

So there's not a lot of overt conflict.

But trying to emotionally attune and connect with that parent causes a lot of conflict because you're not being emotionally validated and really not parented in an emotionally validating way, if that makes sense.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, I love the term.

I mean, it's just one.

It's a broad.

It's broad, but it's different.

Now how is that a different.

Different from like what people would just say, oh, I have a difficult parent, or my mom's, you know, just annoying.

Or is it bigger patterns?

Yes, it's, it's much bigger patterns.

So this is pervasive patterns that are happening quite chronically over time.

They've happened in childhood, they continue to happen.

So this isn't just a one off.

You see, a lot of my clients will say I just don't get validated.

With a lot of my friends and family they say, it's your mother.

My mom's annoying too.

And it's like, okay, that's right.

In relationships they're going to rupture and they're going to repair.

It's the nature of relationships, healthy ones.

But the high conflict piece is there's not a lot of repair in the relationship over time.

So you're feeling a lot of resentment a lot of anger towards the person because they actually don't know how to repair, which is the interesting part, you know, and another thing, obviously alcoholics fall under this.

But a lot of times these high conflict parents, they're not drinking or using drugs.

So the children are, you know, the adult children are saying, well, you know, I don't really know.

And then when you start to unpeace and unpack, what's really going on, even though, you know, as a therapist, you know that we can't diagnose people who are not in our office, but we can hear patterns of behavior and things that have happened and we can put them into a category that helps name the problem so the client will understand.

So is it narcissism, is it sociopathy or psychopathy?

I mean, that's a big pill to swallow for someone.

But what I found is that many clients find freedom in that once they can name the problem, they know how to deal with their parent and they can take away that personality peace.

Like, you know, I'm not loved because my parents were never here for me or I have low self esteem or self worth, or I'm just not good enough.

Right.

And that is, you know, I tell everybody that is ultimately the crutch.

That is the basic premise of everything that we do when we deal with childhood trauma of any kind.

It's yes, on bring that level of awareness to.

I do have this feeling of I'm just not enough.

I just call it not enough, not good enough, funny enough, smart enough, happy enough, it doesn't matter what it is.

Yes.

And you know, it just spirals you into this ultimately.

And then along with that I'm not enough is all sorts of shame.

And because you don't feel worthy or enough to do any of these things, so then shame follows it and it's like this vicious cycle that.

Oh just.

It's so insidious and so frustrating.

You just want, well, see, so that's.

Why like what you're talking about is coming to consciousness.

And so many people are living, you know, unconsciously.

You know, as you know when dealing with clients, they come in and they don't know that they have a high conflict parent.

But then you hear all of these high conflict or emotionally immature behaviors and they're like, well, what do you mean?

Like all, all parent, you know, they get the family brainwashing.

All parents are like this, all children.

And all families argue and fight.

Oh yes they do.

But how do they argue and fight?

I mean, how do they manage that?

So, you know, it is really important for people, you know, to come to consciousness about whatever they need to heal, whether it's toxic family relations, whatever it is.

I mean, it's just so important.

It is.

And the hard part is, is that, you know, like you said, they're like, well, all families are like this.

This is what they've been fed.

And unfortunately, like, in my case, I wasn't allowed to go to friends houses.

I wasn't allowed to see other things because, I mean, that's why the situation was.

Well, not only was that.

Well, my mother was a child psychiatrist, so she was very good at hiding us.

Hiding from us.

What.

What was real and everything, but more importantly in my family was my father was afraid to be left alone with my mother.

So I couldn't spend the night at people's houses because I could not leave him there.

He was afraid something would happen to him while he fell asleep.

I know that sounds so sad, but like, think about, you know, but the.

Pressure that was on you.

I mean, that burden and that pressure to be parentified into a role like you are a protector for your father, because you know, that this.

It might be possible.

I mean, that's like a lot.

Oh, it was.

Yeah, it was crazy.

So I didn't get to see normal households.

I didn't get to see what was, you know, I didn't get to see fights resolved because fights in my family ended up someone passing out, someone falling asleep, someone hitting their head.

And all of a sudden it was a medical issue.

But like, I didn't.

So I have.

I don't think I had ever in my, in my lifetime seen a conflict emotionally, intelligently resolved.

Yes, because.

Because like in my book, I talk about what repair skills does a person need to have in order to do that?

You know, I mean, they have to be self aware, they have to have empathy.

They have to say, you know, between the two of them, you know, we're really overburdening Tammy here.

I mean, we're overburdening her with like this problem and this issues and the things that are going on.

But they don't have the capacity, whether it's alcohol or their own mental health issues, to actually see.

See beyond themselves.

And that's high conflict parenting.

I mean, there.

It's not being able to see that actually we're the parents here.

We need.

We need to be parenting our child empathically in tuning, attuning to them, showing reciprocity.

But that goes missed because of their own limitations.

Right?

Yeah.

And no judgment, no fault.

I mean, it's probably came from their parents, from their parents, from their parents.

And that's why it is so insidious, it is so generational, because it's.

It's so generate.

I mean, and it's like I tell my kids, I said, even if I had never picked up a bottle, never, I.

You still have all of the characteristics of a para alcoholic, right?

Because you were raised by someone who didn't figure it out yet.

I didn't figure out all the stuff until they were little, and then I was.

That's when my healing journey grew up.

They.

They got a lot of the.

I mean, and I'm.

I don't feel guilty about it.

I don't.

I did, believe me, when I started going through this stuff and going, oh, my gosh, what have I done to my kids?

I say this and I say that, and I didn't know.

So for the people out there listening, it is very important that you understand that what you didn't know, you didn't know, right?

And it was that.

No fault of your own.

But once you understand why you do these things and how you do them and.

And you start working through that now, it is your responsibility.

So, you know, I really like that because that is.

That's the difference, I think, between someone who is showing that they can repair.

So are they getting help for their problem?

Are they genuinely saying, I really screwed up when you guys were little, I'm so sorry.

Like, I didn't know.

Having empathy.

You know, if you have someone coming at you, whether it's a parent, family member, whomever, and they're showing true remorse, they're telling you how they've grown.

They're like, they didn't know.

How can you not hold it in your heart to forgive them?

You know, suddenly your heart opens and you're like, okay, I can understand that.

Versus a parent who would say, like, okay, let's just say you didn't get your own health.

You blame it all on your kids.

Well, no, you guys were rotten when you were younger.

That's why I did it.

It was because you were getting trouble in school, you were drinking too much, and I had to do this.

They'd blame it all on the child, take no responsibility.

Which is where the burgeoning I'm not good enough.

I'm not lovable.

I'm defective.

There's something seriously wrong with me.

Stay.

Can stay with someone for a lifetime.

Absolutely.

So I want to go back and talk about something, because we've said it a couple times and we Kept saying, staying with, staying with, staying with.

Talk about, let's go back to.

Because this is what I am just so passionate about right now.

Talk about the, the nervous system effect of that constant hypervigilance and that constant conflict with no resolution pattern.

You know, so like anything, there are benefits, you know, to growing up in that kind of environment.

But obviously there are a lot of problems in like relational trauma.

So, for example, growing up in an emotionally invalidating environment or a very emotionally chaotic environment makes you hyper tuned to be able to scan, to read a room, to read body language.

Many times people go into healing professions, they make great nurses.

I don't think I've ever met a nurse or an ER physician who hasn't grown up in that level of chaos, because guess what, they can function very highly in that.

It actually doesn't really bother them like it would bother most.

But at the same time, that level of what it's doing to the autonomic nervous system, you're constantly in a state of, state of hyper vigilance and you don't even know that you're in a constant state of feeling wired.

Or that's what we call hyper vigilance.

Like, you know, do you startle easy?

Yeah, anytime somebody opens the door, you know, I'm startled.

So you don't.

You're.

So many clients aren't even aware that they're living, you know, in this state of heightened awareness, increased cortisol, which is having effects on the body, different parts of the body which are detrimental.

So they don't really even know it.

And a person can go an entire lifetime and say that.

So you could be sitting in front of a client.

They're visibly anxious and you're like, you seem very anxious.

And they're like, I'm not anxious.

They don't even know what they're feeling and what is happening because this is their baseline.

I just had a client this week say, you know, I don't think I know what it's like ever to actually be at peace and to relax.

And she grew up highly, you know, highly dysfunctional, you know, environment.

Mom is most likely, you know, narcissist, slash, maybe even something a little, you know, darker or more problematic.

And you know, but I, but I said, you know, that's the key piece that you're actually aware of that right now.

You're not just going on autopilot.

Like you're, you're noticing that you're in a constant state of fight and flight, but there's nothing in the environment Right now that's causing you to be fearful, but yet you are assessing for danger.

Yeah.

Well, it's even like I'm doing a little 30 day nervous system hack thing right now on Instagram.

And like today I was just like, just scan the room for five things that are, that are neutral.

Just scan the room.

Because what.

When our brains are trained, like you said, when we grow up like that, to scan, scan for danger.

Yes.

How often do we sit down and be like, oh, that's a pretty picture on my wall.

We only look for the things that could possibly be a threat.

And you're right.

I tell my clients all the time, what do you think your baseline is of anxiety level?

Like seven.

Well, let's get it down.

Let's only focus on getting that down to a two or three even right now.

Yeah.

Because then when those, I mean it's the slight, when you start here and then you get triggered, it's like bam, you're at an 11 out of 10 instantly.

Yes.

If your baseline can be a 2 or 3, then those things, they might get you to a 5 or 6.

And it's like that we can handle, we can deal with that.

Yeah.

So it really is about like being mindful.

So you're talking about mindfulness taking up even a new hobby like bird watching, going walking and like really observing what's going on in the environment.

Because guess what, if you grew up in that type of environment, you are also addicted to drama.

So you might be attracting friends, partners who might also have these qualities that are very emotionally self centered without the ability to attune and to have reciprocity towards you.

And many times clients will say, well, you know, you know, I'm dating.

And I'm like, well this one sounds like green flag.

And they'll say, but he's so boring.

So boring.

It's like because he or she has a secure attachment style, it's not avoidant, it's not disorganized.

I'm like, this is what you're feeling, your autonomic nervous system.

But you're so used to this.

So let's, like you said, get you down.

So you can retrain your autonomic nervous system to be comfortable at a baseline of two.

Right.

Retrain it, retrain it.

Right.

But you are right.

I can remember.

I mean I was at that, I was at that when I was about 29, 30 years old.

And it was like when I met my second husband and it was that it was, he was exactly what my first husband wasn't but it was very uncomfortable sitting there in nothing.

Like not waiting for something bad to happen.

Yes.

Yes.

Or waiting for some kind of chaos.

Yep.

And everybody kept saying, you'll get used to it.

No, I don't.

Like, no.

Like, it was so hard.

Yeah.

Because you're hardwired.

I mean, literally.

I mean, you could just think of a child, you know, a child being hardwired to have to scan and, like, constant emotional chaos.

So once you've had one blowout or two blowouts, you are constantly looking for scary blowouts.

Right.

So it could be once a week, it could be once a month.

It could be.

You don't know.

You could have a parent who's an alcoholic that just, you know, comes home and there really is no drama.

They just pass out.

You know, you don't really know.

But one or two or three of these will caution anyone, parts of yourself to stay on alert continuously and especially if it was chronic.

And there was no, you know, Tammy, last night we had a horrible fight.

I know you're really, like, upset about what happened.

I passed out drunk.

I'm going to get, you know, help for my problem.

And Mom's like, you know, I know that, you know, this is really having an effect on you.

We're going to get counseling for you.

That usually doesn't happen with high conflict parents.

So right there would be the validation.

So it's more like, no, Tammy or whomever, you're crazy.

We're providing for you.

So many people would love to have a mom who's a child psychiatrist and live in the home that we do.

And you're so lucky and grateful while the.

The client or the patient is like, that's gaslighting.

They don't know the term, but they're like, this is how I'm feeling inside.

And that's not.

None of this is being validated.

So what do I do with this?

Right.

No, absolutely.

It.

And it's.

The patterns just, they go on and on.

And that's what I.

Again, for the people out there listening, there is hope for all of this.

This is.

And it's, you know, I say it might have taken me 30 years to figure it out.

It doesn't have to take 30.

30 Years.

We have so many resources now, so many therapists and coaches, and, you know, there's just.

There's ways to do this and where do you think?

You're a psychotherapist, right?

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

You're.

So where do you think the first place to start is when you start when you realize, oh, my God, my life has really.

I need to make a change.

So.

So here's the thing, is that people often will say, oh, what's bringing me to counseling is my anxiety is so bad, I'm suddenly having panic attacks.

And they don't even.

They're not even aware that they grew up with any dysfunction.

Because we've got the cognitive dissonance going on too, towards the parent or and the family members, which is a love but problematic thing.

It makes things very, very confusing.

So when I say someone who's coming out of the dark, they've got to, like, know something like, oh, I heard this, you know, I heard this podcast on dysfunctional families that really resonates with me.

And, you know, what do I do first?

I mean, the first would be if you can, you know, get a therapist or coach, but a therapist, particularly one who is trained in this, because there are unfortunately, and it's not because they're bad therapists or anything like that, they have a different specialty.

But they might say to you, all families have problems.

Well, this is what you do with an alcoholic parent.

Well, it's a little bit deeper than that because what you've actually, you've gone through is relational trauma.

So this is not just one traumatic event.

This is relation.

Traumatic things that have happened in a relationship over decades and continue to go on over decades.

So seeking out a therapist, buying books, you know, adult children of high conflict, parents looking up YouTube, you know, videos and things like that.

But I also think it's important to have a trained professional because, I mean, God Bless Everyone with TikTok and all of this stuff.

I mean, this is great because this is how we understand the problem a little bit better.

But there are a lot of untrained professionals that might inadvertently trigger you with your trauma and you might not be able to know how to handle it.

You might not have the coping skills yet.

And that can be a little bit dangerous.

So that's what I would suggest.

Kudos to that because I 100% agree.

I say that people, you know, we're looking and they're like, oh, well, I did a video on how to, like, self hypnotize myself.

And I figured I'd go back and, whoa, who are you sitting with when you do this?

I know.

Are you kidding me?

Like, I know.

And even some so much information.

Like, I was talking to a lady the other day and we were talking about breathing, and she goes, you know, they keep telling me, deep breath, deep breath.

And I'm like, And I asked her, I said, what does it feel like to you when you're having a panic attack?

She said, I feel like an elephant is stepping on my chest.

I said, can you breathe?

And she said, no.

Then why would you take a deeper breath?

Why would you hold your breath?

I mean, and it was so simple.

But this is a few months ago.

But literally I was like, how about take two quick breaths and then just breathe out as long as you can, like.

And then she's like, wow, that really helped me.

But, you know, you grab these bits and pieces and you try to piece them all together.

And that's why I say all of it's great.

Yes, but you need, you need a guidance.

You need guidance.

You need somebody to run these things off.

And like you said, you need someone that can bring you from a 10 to a 2 if something you do triggers you.

I agree.

Yes.

Because there are so many resources out there.

But, but yeah, air with a foot of baby steps.

Baby steps don't go.

You know, I, I don't know, I just feel like.

Well, I mean, so that's trauma informed care, right?

I mean, so people come in all the time and they'll say, I want emdr.

I'm like, you know, that's great.

But you know, you actually have to be assessed for that process.

So I have to know you have the appropriate coping skills that you can decrease your emotional arousal when you go into trauma.

And that could take many times to set up.

Even reading this book, you know, adult children, high conflict parents, you know, I've had people say, and it's true, they're like, the stories like that really triggered me.

Well, your, your childhood was difficult, so healing from it is going to be challenging too.

Yeah, that's it.

But you can completely and totally get through it.

I mean, if there's a will, there's a way you're going to be able to get through it.

But definitely having something in your.

Some things in your arsenal to decrease emotional arousal is like really important.

And then also something that I always like to.

Because it's just true.

You know, clients come in, they're like, oh yeah, I'm so defective.

I came from this environment.

Now I'm doomed forever.

Let's talk about what you're doing well in your life.

You are not in the mental hospital.

You've never been actively suicidal.

You have a job and you go to it every day.

Do your children ever go hungry or not cleaned?

No.

So you're doing great and you're very resilient.

Here, Right.

Well, I already know that you've got some skills, but when you go through some of these heavy things that you might have pushed out of your awareness, and that's kind of a smart thing, that your body does.

Push it out of your awareness.

Because why do we want to remember and go back to things that are horrific and painful, but just know that you, you know, you can be healed from it, Right?

Absolutely.

And we could literally go.

I.

There's so many as we're talking, like, oh, my God, there's so many different directions I could go with this and everything else.

I love.

I do love talking about the nervous system, because I do think it is all stored there.

And, you know, so it's.

And just teaching those little hacks, you know, like I say, a good example was I hosted an event in December, and the gentleman was an amazing surgeon.

He was for breast cancer, and he did the surgery, and he wanted to show a video about looking at it from, like, the surgeon's perspective.

Right.

But I'm like.

But it was very deep.

And I'm like, wait a minute.

Where are the people ringing the bell?

Like, where.

You know, where is the joy in this video?

And at the end, I could see everybody was, like, so tense.

Their shoulders were up, their jaws were clenched and everything.

And again, it's some people.

It's their natural, like, take a deep breath.

And I'm like, no, let's shake.

Like, literally, like, everybody get up and.

Yeah, shaking it off.

You see athletes do that all the time.

Like, shaking it out of your nervous system.

You know, that's interesting because what we do here in Western medicine, and like, Peter Levine, Dr. Peter Levine talks about it, you know, I think he was like, in a car accident.

I can't remember when.

It was maybe 20 years ago or something.

And he was aware that if we stop our traumatic responses, which is what the body does, what animals do after a fight with each other, they shake and convulse.

That is get.

That's releasing your trauma.

But in Western medicine, they stop you from doing that.

And that's how people can get ptsd.

See, Right?

So shaking it off.

And you see this all the time.

Yoga is another great thing.

But if you're, you know, I've trained, like, in meditation and in yoga, you see people in meditation and they are shaking.

You see people in Shavasana in the end.

And you always know because you say, ah, this person's early on in their journey and their body's actually discharging.

You ask them, did you know, you were shaking at the.

Your nervous system.

You were shaking.

They're like, no, I didn't know that at all.

Because the body's discharging the trauma from.

It's discharging it from the body, which is just easier, you know?

I mean, it's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so necessary.

So I said, whatever feels good, you know, just breathe into wherever you feel that tenseness or that whatever when you have a feeling and it arises, and then breathe into that and then just let it.

Let it go.

You know, don't try to fight it.

That's what we always do.

And that's part of the problem with the highly conflictive parents is everything's okay, sweetie.

Suck it up, buttercup.

Like, stop crying.

Get over it.

Like, how many times.

I mean, I must have heard that every day of my life.

Yeah.

Even when I was happy.

Like, what are you so happy about?

You got nothing.

Nothing to be so happy about.

Okay.

Emotional invalidation right there, you know?

And it was so.

It's like, okay, I get in trouble if I'm sad.

I get in trouble if I'm happy.

So I will literally let.

How about we just don't have any emotion?

Like, Right.

You know, And.

And that's a pattern too.

You know, it's people.

I've had people.

I remember my first client, and I kind of laugh and going back to you, talking about finding someone who is.

Kind of understands.

I'm not a therapist, but I met my first.

My first client came to me and she said, tammy, I've been working with a therapist for, like, 11 years.

And she said, and I have not.

I went to therapy for a long time.

I still do.

So I have nothing.

I'm not saying anything bad about it, but I said, did your therapist by chance have two alcoholic parents?

And she's like, no.

I said, I was you.

I was you.

I know what to ask you.

I know.

I know what you went through.

And that's why a lot of healers, they get into healing people that went through what they went through because they know they can help.

I mean, she said, my God, in 18 minutes, you told me two things that I could do that changed my whole life.

And I'm like, because I was you.

So.

Yeah.

You know, and there's no right or wrong therapist.

There's no.

It's just who you resonate with, who you trust, because that is a huge issue when you come from high conflict families.

Yeah.

So you know what?

Like, even in that instance, and I say this to everyone, there's never any real wasted time that you have with a therapist.

So, okay, you came and see me, but you've been seeing someone for 10 years and you're like, it just kind of fizzled out.

Well, developmentally you probably were not ready.

And just the fact that you went to that therapist for 10 years, you were able to trust and feel emotionally safe with someone probably for the first time in your life.

And that is so important because you didn't feel emotionally safe probably ever.

Growing up with this level of dysfunction, you, you just didn't.

You were always, well, then I'm just gonna zip it.

I just won't, I just won't show my emotion.

So if I'm happy, I won't show, I won't ask why.

I'm just gonna have this baseline of like being kind of absent.

Yeah.

Did you ever have that experience with any of your clients where you ask them like, well, who are you?

Or what do you like to do when they're like, oh, yeah, dear, that was me.

I pictured back the first time I ever went to a therapist and she's like, well, who are you?

I was like, that's a pretty deep question.

I have no idea.

Like, I'm like, I don't know.

What do you want me to be?

Yeah, see, there you go.

What do you need me to be?

I'll be whatever you want me to be.

Uh huh.

And that is a typical response because, I mean, that can go into fawning.

Right?

So I'm sorry, I'll be anything that you want me to be.

That's, that's a trauma response that is learned.

It could be fight, it could be fun, it could be flee.

So how are you reacting?

You know, so many clients come in and they don't even know how they actually feel.

So that's why I like what you're saying.

You're actually talking about somatic healing when you're saying, okay, breathe into it.

Like, where do you feel it in your body?

Oh my God, I feel like the tension, like here.

Okay, breathe into it.

Notice where you feel it in your body.

Noticing where you feel it in your body can start for you to be able to identify actually emotionally how you're feeling.

So many people do not know that.

They don't even know how they're feeling.

Right.

And, and you asked the question before, like, just even naming what happened, like naming an emotion is very difficult for some people in the beginning.

You know, you don't know.

It's like, oh, what is that feeling?

Is it anger?

Is it like I literally, at 26 years old, I mean, I, I joke and I laugh about it now because it was 22.

Oh no, what am I, 58.

So 30 some years ago, I didn't, I couldn't even name an emotion people like.

And I remember my therapist saying to me, well, doesn't.

Didn't that make you angry?

No.

Didn't it make you like, sad?

No.

Yep.

Right.

Because I get, I learned to detach.

Yeah.

Step aside, kind of watch things happen and be like, interesting.

Exactly.

So not really being in touch.

And I see this a lot, like with clients not really in touch with their anger, so they can say, you know, over sadness and all that, but they're not really in touch with, you know, you have to move through all of these feelings and know that they're natural in order to actually heal and not be ashamed of the anger and rage you might have for growing up in an environment like that.

A lot of clients along in their healing would, would say, you know, what would I be like if my parents were more normal?

What would I be like?

You know, that's a whole grieving thing that they have to go through also to be able to come on the other side and not stay in forever.

Forever.

You know, branded.

I'm an adult child of an alcoholic, high conflict parent.

Because every single person goes through something in their life and to, you know, learn it from a spiritual lens and like, try to move towards post traumatic growth is like the most important thing.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

And the post traumatic growth is huge, but it's possible.

Yes.

And you have to, you have to want it.

You have to believe that the work it takes to do it is more important than the pain that you're gonna, you know, that, that it's gonna muster up and things and, and you, you have to be able to do the work.

I, I've had people that take my eight week course and they say, oh yeah, I went through it.

No, it's been seven days.

There's thousands of articles, week long exercises.

Yeah.

You know, it's like you have it, you know, you have to, you have to be willing to do the work.

But it's so worth it, every step of it.

Yeah.

And also just know that it is gonna feel scary, it is gonna feel daunting.

And if you do need to take a break for whatever reason and you know, your, your, your autonomic nervous system, but also your memories, you're not gonna remember things that you can't handle.

I mean, that, that's, I mean, they just will not come up.

So you're never really in a state.

I mean, you've already lived through all of that and you did it when you were really young.

Now you're an adult.

I mean, you can handle it.

And don't be so hard on yourself and say, oh my God, I failed or I didn't do this right?

Or I didn't do whatever.

If it takes you years, it takes you years.

You know, someone just said it took me two months to read your book.

I'm like, I'm surprised it took you two months.

It could have, should have taken you like a year, maybe even a decade.

Because this is like emotionally intense stuff, right?

It's okay to look at it and be triggered and be like, okay, this is a little overwhelming.

Maybe I just going to put this down and maybe I'll look at it in a couple of months.

I mean, everyone is developmental.

You know, we're all on this like timeline developmentally.

And you are exactly where you're supposed to be.

Exactly.

That's such a good comment, right?

You're exactly where you're supposed to be.

Like, don't.

And no comparison.

No.

There is no linear healing chart.

Right.

Like this.

These are my, these are my things that happen.

So I'm gonna plug them into the chart.

And your timeline is that.

That doesn't exist.

I mean, I talk of people and you can't beat yourself up about it because then it goes back to that, I'm not good enough, I can't do this.

And that's.

It all goes back to that.

So love yourself right where you're at.

I mean that's, yeah, self, love, self.

Treat yourself like your own freaking best friend.

When you have that little critic sitting on your shoulder telling you you're not good enough or you're stupid or you, you know, you, you're a failure.

You know, like I always say, that little person sitting on your shoulder talking to you, pretend it's like your daughter, your, your son, whatever, whoever you love the most and set those standards for that person.

When you talk to yourself and like.

That, that is literally self compassion work.

I mean that's, you know, the premise of self, self compassion.

So when you start beating yourself up, notice it.

But what would you, how would you intervene with your best friend or your daughter if she was saying those things?

I mean, what would you say?

How would you rally behind?

How would you motivate?

How would you say, none of this is true.

What's wrong with you?

Right?

Step out of it.

Snap out of it?

Yes, out of it.

I mean, you know, you're this, you're, you know, you're saying all this and everybody needs that reminder, you know, when that starts to happen, happen.

But it's the awareness that.

Oh, here that part comes again.

That part's coming in highly critical.

You can't do this.

You're not, you're not enough.

Like, okay, I'm going to ask you, love you, thank you for protecting me, but I'm going to ask you to step aside and I'm going to like, focus on something else and retrain, Retrain myself in, in another way.

That's the whole purpose, to retrain, you know, your neurons.

I mean, there's so much research and the brain of like, what this does,.

You know, and think about it.

It wasn't many, long ago.

I mean, there were some pioneers decades ago, but that stuff was kind of poo pooed, chewed aside.

Totally.

You know, we can't change.

Once you're hit this certain age, your brain doesn't grow your blah, blah, blah.

That is BS for everybody out there.

Your brain is like a big ball of play.

D'oh.

And you get to mold what it thinks and what it believes and what it remembers and what it believe.

Yes.

And actually retrain it.

Yeah, retrain it.

And have new neural networks that actually are created, new pathways.

I mean, why do you think when you start a habit so hard in the beginning, but after you do it 20, 30 times, you just start to automatically do it?

You've just rewired your brain so you know, there is no static.

Like, no, you can rewire your brain, you can rewire your autonomic nervous system system, and you can heal from anything.

But like you said, Tammy, it does.

What it takes is just like it to be successful in anything in life.

It takes.

I'm gonna do this even though it sucks and I don't feel like going to therapy today.

Like, oh my God.

Like, oh, it's like, come into therapy and let's talk about what's going on with you.

Because you're usually right there on, right there.

You're like one step away from a major awareness that's gonna happen.

So that's normal to feel that level of.

I mean, who really wants to go back to the traumatic things in their life and rehash them?

Who would want to do that?

I mean, that's not fun.

That's not fun.

But it's so worth it to come out of the patterns and to be fully alive and to have full self love and Self respect for yourself.

Absolutely, absolutely love it.

Well, Dr. Hutchinson, this is so much fun.

I could talk to you forever, but I know, I know, right?

I feel like there's so many different topics and so many different directions I wanted to go and I'm like, ah, but maybe I'll have you back on.

Who knows?

Definitely.

I would love to come back on.

I've enjoyed myself.

Yes.

So tell people if they want to work with you, how you work and how they can reach you.

The best place to reach you.

The best place to reach me would just be my website, so.

Www.doctortracy hutchinson.com and just, you know, the contact me page will like, you know, guide you into like, you an email.

Obviously, I have the book that you can, there's links to that where you can purchase that on Amazon or, you know, Barnes and Noble or wherever there are major book retailers.

Okay, yeah, perfect.

And all that will go in the show notes.

But first, I want to thank you for coming on.

I thank you.

Love it.

And lastly, I want you to leave the listeners with some words of wisdom or something tangible they can either do or something positive to carry throughout the day with them today.

Today.

Well, the fact that you are on and listening to the show, whether you are a regular listener of the podcast or this is your first or second show, you are already on your step and your journey to healing.

And once you reach a certain state of awareness, often there's no going back.

You're going down the rabbit hole of healing.

So know that even listening to a podcast, journaling every morning, you are already nourishing yourself with self respect and self love.

You're on the journey and more than likely you are going to heal.

You will, you're going to, you're going to heal from it because you're already, you know, being attracted to the things that are more positive in your life versus staying stuck into something.

So you're already coming to consciousness.

So congratulate yourself for that.

Perfect.

Thank you so much again for coming on.

Sure.

Thank you.

You're very welcome.

And for everybody else out there, you heard it.

That was Dr. Hutchinson.

And make that first step.

You're here, you're listening to it, you've got that awareness.

Make the second step.

It's one step at a time, every day at a time, loving yourself and knowing that at the end of the day, no matter what people in your life have told you or shown you, you're worth it and you deserve it.

So I love you guys and I'll see you back next week.