Darin Hayes welcomes Timothy P. Brown from footballarchaeology.com to the Pigskin Daily History Dispatch, where they delve into the intriguing history of player numbering systems in American football. The discussion begins with a look back at the time when there was no standardized system for player numbers, allowing players to wear any number between 1 and 99, regardless of their position. Brown shares insights from a 1940 article by Bob Balfe, a columnist for the Palm Beach Post, who proposed a more organized numbering system. His suggestion was to assign specific number ranges to positions: backs would wear numbers 1 through 4, while linemen would be assigned numbers 5 through 11. This idea, although never implemented, highlights the historical context of football's evolution and the gradual move towards a more systematic approach that we see today.

The conversation progresses to the NCAA's eventual adoption of a standardized numbering system in 1941, which categorized centers in the 50s, guards in the 60s, and tackles in the 70s. Brown explains how this system, while not without its critics and alternative suggestions, has shaped the way we view player positions and their corresponding numbers. The discussion also touches on the practical implications of numbering systems for officiating, particularly in terms of eligibility for passing plays. As football transitioned to a two-platoon system, the need for a more defined numbering structure became even more apparent, leading to the establishment of the current norms that allow for easier identification of players on the field.

Throughout the episode, Hayes and Brown engage in a lively dialogue about the quirks and complexities of football history, punctuated by anecdotes about coaches who resisted changes to the numbering system. Timothy P. Brown recounts amusing instances where coaches introduced unconventional numbering schemes, such as using Roman numerals or four-digit numbers, in defiance of new regulations. This historical backdrop not only enriches the listener's understanding of football's past but also invites reflection on how traditions and rules evolve within the sport. The episode concludes with a reminder to explore Brown's website, footballarchaeology.com, for more fascinating insights into the history of football, making it an essential resource for fans and historians alike.

The conversation is based on Tim's original Tidbit Factoid Feast I -

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Here just in time as we go through a mystery in history with footballarchaeology.com's Timothy P. Brown as we explore an alternative numbering system that could have happened but didn't. But it sure is interesting.

Tim's up in a moment to tell us all about it.

This is the Pigskin Daily History Dispatch, a podcast that covers the anniversaries of American football events throughout history. Your host, Darren Hayes is podcasting from America's North Shore to bring you the memories of the gridiron one day at a time.

Hello, my football friends. This is Darren Hayes of pigskindispatch.com welcome once again to the Pig Pen, your portal deposit football history. And today is Tuesday.

And what we do on Tuesdays is talk to our friend Timothy p. Brown of footballarcheology.com Tim, welcome back to the Pig Pen.

Hey, Darren, looking forward to chatting?

So you have another part of a factoid feast. And this is kind of neat to break these things down and look at these individual stories too. You have one that you titled bob's got your number.

Maybe you could tell us a little bit about that.

You know, by then you had to have a number on the front of your jersey and on the back.

But, you know, so like Tom Harmon, warden, 99, you know, Red Grange was 77, you know, whatever, you know, you could choose any number and no pattern, no differentiation between linemen and backs. So he proposed that you should have the, the backs should be numbered 1 through 4 and then the rest of the linemen would be 5 through 11.

And, and that's it. Now, you know, they were playing single platoon football at the time, so just having 11 numbers makes a little bit more sense.

Though his system wouldn't have accounted for substitutes, but you know, it fundamentally it makes sense. And in fact, rugby uses exactly that same process today. You know, you're, you're numbered by your position and that doesn't change.

But you know, there, there wasn't a rule so they finally put a rule in place that said, okay, centers where numbers in the 50s, guards in the 60s, tackles in the 70s, etc. And so, you know, it's just one of those things that, you know, his idea made sense.

There were other people at that time who were arguing for, you know, have the centers where numbers starting with a digit with a one and then guards with the two. And so, you know, there's no inherent reason why, you know, linemen have one set of numbers and backs have another.

But you know, they just kind of picked, I don't know if they picked it out ahead or what they did, but you know, we ended up having a consistent system and so we live by it today and you know, but there's really no rationale for it one way or the other.

It does make a big difference for pass out eligibility when you're officiating a game. Makes a big difference and is helpful.

Oh yeah, no, I mean, but for.

Back in, back in the day, why they did it the other way, you're saying.

Yeah, all I'm saying is, you know, it could have easily been that, you know, the numbers that we consider back numbers could have been lineman numbers.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

So whatever the system was, there's no inherent reason why, you know, linemen are between 50s and 60s or 50s and 70s. And then you know, D linemen are up in the 90s and things like that now.

But, but anyways, I mean, and the other thing is just like not that long after that numbering system came in, then, then we end up playing two platoon football and you know, you no longer had everybody lining up in exactly the same formations as, you know, had once been the case.

So you know, it there, there was, there's no way to have a, a really consistent numbering system like occurs with, with rugby or you know, single platoon football.

Do you think, has anybody ever suggested, do you think it'll ever, ever see a day where maybe they go to like three digit numbers?

Because you see, you know, quite often on college games, I mean every major college game you see now you have like a, a number eight that plays on offense quite a bit and a starter on defense is number eight on the same team. So they're sharing numbers and when they get these giant ro.

And you know, with numbers getting retired and things like that, do you think maybe that's something could happen in the future?

I, I would think not.

You know, I mean, I, it just the, you know, part of the value of the numbers is Makes it easy to identify who's who and or at least easier when you start adding like a 117 or whatever it might be. The numbers kind of almost have to get smaller. You know, they are a regimented size now, at least in ncaa. And so I, I would think not.

So, you know, it's just there was another guy, guy named dad Amos.

Dad Amos or Pop Amos, something like that, who was a coach at Furman and he had, he had his team go out there wearing Roman numerals, you know, same kind of thing. You didn't like the rule and said screw you. You didn't say it has to be Arabic numbers. So I'm going to put them out there and from the numerals.

Oh God. Hey, I just got tackled by Excel, you know.

Exactly.

Oh, good stuff. Good stuff. Yeah, that, that is a very entertaining one.

Yep. You know, my site is footballarchaeology.com so just go out there and either just hit the site whenever you want to or subscribe.

And if you subscribe, every time I publish an article, you'll get an email with the contents of that article in there. So yeah, that's, that's the best way to do it.

And you know, let, let your, let the emails pile up if you want to or, you know, whatever, whatever works for you.

All right, well, Tim, we really appreciate you coming on and sharing this great information with us and, and sharing your site with us and letting us get into minds and the history of football. And we'd love to talk to you again next week about it.

Yeah, look forward to it. Thanks, Derek.

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