Could your personal hurdles be the secret to your success? Host Maegan Megginson explores this idea with Paulette Perhach, an author and writing coach who has turned her lifelong journey with ADHD into a powerful strength. Join Maegan and Paulette as they explore the ways ADHD has impacted Paulette’s career and life. Although Paulette's official ADHD diagnosis came only a few years ago, she has spent time and energy throughout her life finding ways to channel what works for her. 

Paulette shares her personal strategies for how she stays organized and productive. By combining structure with creative freedom, Paulette has built a business that leverages her strengths and helps others achieve their goals. Her journey highlights how embracing neurodiversity can lead to extraordinary innovation and satisfaction.

Discover the insights from this episode, including:

Paulette Perhach’s professional journey as a writer and coach (00:00) 

How Paulette navigated ADHD’s impact on family and school life (09:25) 

Why you should embrace self-education and growth (15:54) 

How one wild interview led to Paulette’s realization that she had ADHD (27:56) 

Navigating the emotional impact of an ADHD diagnosis as an adult (31:16) 

Paulette’s main coping strategies (+ why she publicizes her rejections) (36:40) 

How to “Harness ADHD’s Wild Horse Power” as a creative business owner (50:52)

Whether you have ADHD, know someone who does, or are simply interested in transforming personal challenges into strengths, this episode is packed with valuable insights and inspiration. 

Tune in to learn how Paulette has harnessed her ADHD to create a fulfilling life and a successful business that resonates with her passions. Listen now to see how you can transform your own hurdles into assets for a more purposeful and rewarding life.

To watch a video version of this, check it out on YouTube: https://youtu.be/8dSckOnNo5g

Connect with Paulette 

Get a free half-hour Writer’s Workflow and Organization Consultation 

Link: https://calendly.com/paulettejperhach/free-writer-s-workflow-consultation?month=2024-08 

Mentioned in this episode:

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[00:00:25] Paulette is really an open book in this conversation. She shares so vulnerably and honestly about how she has harnessed her gifts as a person with ADHD to create a business that truly works for her and is shepherding her on the path to becoming deeply rested. So if you have ADHD, or if you've ever wondered if you have ADHD, this episode is going to really hit home for you.

[00:01:15] Paulette is an incredibly gifted, creative person and her willingness to show us who she really is and to teach us the lessons that she has learned along her own journey with ADHD are truly a gift. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Paulette Perhach.

[00:02:25] Hi. Thanks for having me, Maegan.

[00:02:47] And I just really appreciate your willingness to be here and to share your personal story about your own journey with this diagnosis.

[00:03:01] Maegan: I mean, I feel like in the last five years, it's just every day I meet a new woman who was like, I just found out I have ADHD.

[00:03:17] Maegan: Okay. That makes a lot of sense, actually.

[00:03:38] What are all of the different things that you do to make money?

[00:04:22] And I was like, ah, it's all coming together. And, yeah.

[00:04:31] Paulette: Yeah, it's like the brain I wasn't born with.

[00:04:46] You're a freelance writer, you're a ghost writer, you're a coach for writers, you've created this incredible software for writers. Full disclosure, I'm taking a writing class with Paulette right now, and it's incredible. You are such a fantastic instructor and facilitator. You can find Paulette's essays all over the internet.

[00:05:13] Paulette: Yeah, it is a lot to manage, but it is… I mean, I feel like if you read Cal Newport's Deep Work, you know, I'm like, okay, how do I rein this in? And it always just feels the answer is don't have ADHD. So, you know, it's like we need that texture in our day. We need to be like,

[00:05:38] That's part of why I love journalism.

[00:06:02] That is a strategy that does not work well for neurodivergent brains.

[00:06:22] I would put on American Beauty…

[00:06:26] Paulette: When I was in college,

[00:06:44] Yes, four hours. If not, zero hours.

[00:07:02] Paulette: In theory. There's also, you know, for my career, for money making, sometimes I'm like, God, if I were just the queen of this little niche, which is the advice that I give to my coaching students who are doing freelancing… I'm like, listen, the easiest way to become very successful is to be the queen or king of one little niche, right?

[00:07:30] I'm fine with that. Maybe my niche will be like ADHD writers. I don't know. But, I love learning about new things, and you know, I don't just want to write about one thing.

[00:07:39] Maegan: Yeah, why do you?

[00:08:00] people. And I think that's something I really witness you modeling in the world is how to do your business in a way that really works for you and your personality. We have a lot to learn from you.

[00:08:34] I try to be about the deepest reality. And if the deepest reality is that we are floating in space with all this beauty, all these animals and plants that evolved from nothing. Why in the fuck are we going to a box 40 hours a week and typing on our little screens? I don't want to sit in a box.

[00:09:01] Those are freedoms that I have fought really hard and sacrificed a lot to get in my life.

[00:09:25] And let's travel back to the early days of Paulette's life. And I know from our previous conversations that you've been doing a lot of reflecting this year on how ADHD has been present in your life for a really long time. So in retrospect, tell us about what life was like for you as a kid. What was school like for you as a kid?

[00:09:56] Paulette: Well, four out of five people in my family have ADHD.

[00:10:01] Paulette: So our house was really chaotic. It was very loving and very fun and very chaotic. And just, I think that the question that ADHD and a diagnosis answers is why. Why can't we just keep our laundry done? Why can't we keep the kitchen clean? Why can't you remember, you know, X, Y, Z?

[00:10:37] Paulette: I still mess up sometimes. My mom's like, it was the 80s! Like, you know, she would forget to pick me up, and you know, I felt really lucky to have a loving family, but also then my family went broke. When I was eight, my family went bankrupt.

[00:11:09] I couldn't have the same things and have the same physical, material expression of my life that my friends had and that was really hard.

[00:11:20] Paulette: No, I just got diagnosed four years ago at 38.

[00:11:24] Paulette: I just felt like something was different. I didn't know what...

[00:11:44] at school.

[00:12:02] Maegan: Yeah.,

[00:12:10] Maegan: We were broke. Thanks for correcting me on that, and for helping us understand, and your family, what that distinction was between, you know, we're bankrupt, we're broke, but we're not in poverty. There was this way in which you were understanding it that really informed how, as a child, you were showing up in the world.

[00:12:34] Maegan: We weren't poor, but we were broke, and we were chaotic. And what was happening here? It sounds like there was a lot of judgment that you had at the time about your family.

[00:12:48] Not about them as people. Like my mom is so wonderful. You know, my dad was so wonderful, so funny, so great. He died when I was 17, and you know, his best friend's wife, whenever I happened to see her, you know, through the years, she said your father's funeral was still the biggest funeral I've ever been to.

[00:13:15] Maegan: And what about in school? In hindsight, did ADHD show up for you in your studies?

[00:13:42] We're going to get out of here together. You know, we're all going to make it. And I had, in sixth grade, like a 0 percent in one class by midterm.

[00:13:52] Paulette: I had done zero things. And my report card was D A D D. And I was like, I did it for you, Dad.

[00:14:03] Paulette: I know. He did not buy it.

[00:14:07] Paulette: English.

[00:14:10] Paulette: And you know, it's funny, like it's awkward to say, but like I was in the gifted program... As my friends said, if they explained to the other children the levels of drug abuse and depression in the gifted kids, the other kids wouldn't feel so bad.

[00:14:33] You know, I loved that project based learning, which was really nice.

[00:14:52] Paulette: Yeah, I mean, I definitely wouldn't have put it in those terms.

[00:14:57] Paulette: I just remember like, wanting to beat the system.I think I was bored. I wasn't engaged. The way that I played it, was like, how little work can I do and still get good grades? And when I graduated college, I remember this feeling of like, Oh, I did it.

[00:15:16] And it's funny because when I was 28, I kind of discovered self education, and I'm like such a learning nerd now. Yeah, what was it about self education that pulled you in?

[00:15:33] Maegan: All good stories start with hitting rock bottom.

[00:15:51] And so I was like, what do I do? So I went on YouTube and I Googled how to ride a horse. I was transported to this woman in this amazing corral in this completely professional outfit. Like she seemed like a total professional. And I was learning from her from the middle of South America. And I was like, this is wild.

[00:16:32] And so when I came back from the Peace Corps, like, the most uncomfortable time of my life. Like I had to start temping like two days after I came back. I'm in this tiny cubicle the size of a bathroom stall doing data entry. That was when I discovered this, I'm not staying here energy. And I was like, I'm going to use this experience to learn the 10 key type, you know, little key pad.

[00:17:11] Maegan: in which you learned over time. Again, you didn't know you had ADHD. You weren't thinking about any of this explicitly, but there's so much power and wisdom that comes from examining how we got to where we are today. And I hear that there was this way that you resisted the status quo, right?

[00:17:55] Like, in so many ways, your ADHD helped you follow your intuitive calls and resist what people were telling you you should be doing.

[00:18:18] It was just kind of one of my first memories of like hyper focus. I was just like, I couldn't stop. I was obsessed with, I made everyone in my like group stay up to 10 o'clock working on it, you know? And that's, I think that's like the power of ADHD, where it's like, when you catch that hook, like it's on.

[00:18:39] Maegan: There's a through line here that's really resonating for me. I believe that many of the business owners, the small business owners who are struggling with burnout and overwhelmed and stressed, are struggling in large part because they're trying so hard to do what they think they're supposed to be doing, and the way they're supposed to be doing it.

[00:19:29] Paulette: Oh yeah, I mean, I'm looking for the things where it's like, what is the crossover? Like the class that you're in, the essay class. You know, designing the slides, designing the curriculum, talking to the guest speakers, talking to the students. that's all... That's just the good stuff for me. I love that.

[00:20:07] And number two, is it really important? So, things like working out, having a trainer if you can. I've used a trainer online who lives in Colombia, because I wanted to practice my Spanish. And then having an assistant if you need to. And people are like, Oh, that's so fancy. I'm like, the rest of my life is very not fancy so that I can afford that.

[00:20:34] I want to emphasize these two questions that, like your keystone questions here are, have I struggled with this my whole life, and how important is it right now? Am I getting that right? So I think it's a double yes. Is this very important to my life?

[00:20:53] Paulette: Yeah.

[00:21:10] How do you know... it's a big question, but how do you know if the answer is yes to the second question? This is really important.

[00:21:35] I know that game! Yeah, what are the stakes?

[00:21:53] Paulette: Sometimes I think you need help recognizing it.

[00:22:10] And the same thing with living in New York. I just moved to New York, and all I saw was the cost of living in New York, and once I spent a bit of time here, I realized the cost of not living in New York, you know? So that's where mentors and coaches can provide a little bit of insight.

[00:22:48] It's like, you need a call to action. You're a tiny business. You get one ad, you know? And I was like, Oh my gosh, like you can see how... I couldn't see that structure before. And I can see it now when someone points it out, and that's something that you wouldn't even... It's like a black swan where you don't know what you don't know.

[00:23:25] Maegan: To say the right thing for you... you need to hire an assistant. Like, you don't, you don't know if I need to hire an assistant.

[00:23:34] Maegan: It's tricky! It's tricky because that's the capitalist conditioning in all of us. It's like, okay, I'm just going to tell you what to do, and then I'm going to pay someone else to tell me what to do.

[00:23:59] Okay. That's something that you are going to know the answer to. Have you always struggled with it? You're the only one who can know the answer to that question. But the second question, how important is this? Is this important enough to invest in getting the support? Sometimes we know the answer to that, but often I sit with people who are really confused

[00:24:42] Yeah. And I think just connecting it back to everything you're saying about your ADHD experience, that for you, the decision about what's right for you, it is so unique to Paulette, the answer to the question.

[00:24:59] Paulette has to figure out how to do it. And when you do, you just hit this sweet spot where life becomes a lot easier, it sounds like.

[00:25:19] Paulette: Like, damn it. Why didn't I get that one?

[00:25:53] Paulette: Just always feeling like I was doing it wrong, and that I didn't understand the scope of everything I had to do to make sure I got it right. I also... Paperwork and forms are my kryptonite. Just like if you bring a form near me, I'll be like, Ooh, get it away.

[00:26:10] It's like, why are we doing this? I have terrible handwriting, which is a symptom of ADHD. And so it's like this terrible handwriting, this paper form. So all the forms, governmental stuff, like form EA45... Like I'm in a coma,

[00:26:33] I am not good at executing this first, then this, then this.

[00:26:38] Paulette: Yes. So things like cashing checks… Being like, “Hey, when are you guys going to send that check?” And they're like, “We showed that you cashed it four days ago.” You're like, "Cool. Talk to you later. Thanks. Bye." I'm just going to hide under my covers for a little bit.

[00:27:07] Maegan: What led to you finally going through the official assessment process, getting the diagnosis? I want to hear that story.

[00:27:18] Maegan: So I was working for Nir Eyal, who wrote Hooked, and he was writing a book called Indistractable. And so I was interviewing Ned Hallowell about culturally induced, kind of like attention issues.

[00:27:53] Maegan: And what was that?

[00:27:58] Maegan: That's a bold move.

[00:28:20] I'm a talker. I have ADHD. And so we were just getting to talking about distraction and how hard it is. And you know, he says to me, he's like, Hey, like, think you sound like you have ADHD. I think you should get tested. And he goes, you have a great center there in Seattle. I'll send you the contact info.

[00:28:55] Maegan: Whoa.

[00:28:58] It was 260. And I just was like, I don't have 260. So I did an online quiz, and it said there is a high likelihood of ADHD. And I was like, ha ha ha ha ha, because I thought ADHD was, as it seems to be named for, that you have trouble with distraction. And that was the only thing that ADHD is. So it didn't seem very important to get fully tested.

[00:29:40] Because he's the founder. And so he was like this super big deal guy.

[00:29:50] Maegan: You talked to Ned?

[00:30:01] So then I just... The test was like in the middle of my day. I had all this stuff planned afterward and, you know, he goes through the questions and he goes... Well, one of them was like, do you have trouble with organization? And I was like, not now that I like had to design a freaking piece of software to get organized, and hit rock bottom and make it like the center of my life.

[00:30:34] Maegan: How did you feel at that moment?

[00:30:42] And like, it was like a kind of nausea.

[00:30:52] And, I think there were tears. I mean, there's often tears. There've been tears for less.

[00:31:09] Maegan: Wow.

[00:31:27] And like the closing quote I used was this woman saying, "So maybe I'm not as a person as I thought I was." And that just hit me in the heart. And I actually interviewed Ned Hallowell for that story, under normal circumstances. And I was…

[00:31:44] Paulette: And, I just had tears streaming down my face, the whole interview.

[00:32:08] Maegan: Wow, acceptance, celebration, compassion, that's huge right there.

[00:33:01] Like we just see it for what it is. And I hear that in this moment where you get this assessment. You're a, you're 20 out of 20. You're A plus on the ADHD assignment. And it's just like a reckoning. This moment is a reckoning with the truth. And it's a moment where everything changed for you going forward.

[00:33:29] Paulette: My self talk really changed. You know? The sense of belonging definitely changed because I think about 5 percent of people have ADHD, right? So, 1 out of 20. You're going to be 1 out of 20 people. So if you're the only one in your friend group...

[00:33:53] So seeing the content on, you know, Dr. Sasha and how to ADHD. And so many people talk about it and you're just like, Oh my gosh.

[00:34:19] The other thing is rejection sensitive dysphoria or RSD.

[00:34:24] Paulette: Something really embarrassing about ADHD is that a lot of the symptoms are generally what you would think of as what a child would do and not an adult, so it's really hard to feel like a fully grown adult.

[00:34:39] rejection sensitive dysphoria is when you experience severe emotional pain because of a failure or feeling rejected. This condition is linked to ADHD, and experts suspect it happens due to differences in brain structure. Those differences mean your brain can't regulate rejection related emotions and behaviors, making them much more intense.

[00:35:16] Maegan: Hmm. Like, because you can't afford something?

[00:35:35] And the thing that I didn't think about was how it would feel when you're the only one not making any money. Or the only one making less money than your friends. And coupled with impulse shopping. So, Chaos City. And so, yeah, you just are very sensitive to rejection, which is great for writers.

[00:36:01] Paulette: Alcohol. No, I'm just kidding.

[00:36:06] Paulette: Kind of, kind of joking. Yeah, I actually... It was funny. I went to a networking event last night that was very intense. It was actually the first time I publicly advocated for myself. They had it in this bar that had this long hallway, and then it opened to this tin box of a room with no carpeting or anything.

[00:36:44] So I said, is it okay if we go in the hallway? And I kind of felt like I was putting people out or whatever. And then I was like, "Oh, sorry. It's like an ADHD thing." It's just, the noise is really loud for me. And I was like, Oh God, I'm being like the ADHD girl right now. But then we got in the hallway and the other people in the group were like, Oh my God, this is so much nicer.

[00:37:04] Maegan: what a beautiful moment of self-advocacy.

[00:37:18] which I've had, not with alcohol... Like alcohol, it was like, not great. Like my young twenties...The discomfort I was feeling last night at this networking event. And I was like, sit with it. Like you're very uncomfortable, but I'm living in New York. I'm going to be going to networking events three times a week.

[00:37:41] Maegan: Don't bounce back quite as quick.

[00:37:54] Maegan: I want to take two steps back because I have witnessed you doing something else to cope with rejection that I think is really brilliant. Tell the listeners about your decision to publicize your rejections on social media, and why

[00:38:11] Paulette: Yeah. So. A big part of my writing life happened when I moved from Florida to Seattle, where I was for 10 years, and they have a great writing center there called Hugo House. And you're around writers. You take classes with them, you see them at events, and you, the distance is closed. And up close, nobody looks as cute or pretty or young in their author's photo as they do at a party, right?

[00:38:57] something else, but it's basically written in the style of the author's bio, but it's like, okay, here's what else happened while all that other stuff was going on. And it's a gift when someone is vulnerable like that and says, yeah, me too. Oh yeah, no, I had to move back in with my mom after peace corps for eight months, you know?

[00:39:38] And I remember Roxanne Gay talking about getting rejections. She goes, of course I still get rejections. And I was like, What? Like Roxanne Gay gets rejected? So I think that's like, you know, I'm certainly no Roxanne Gay level, but I am a professional writer, you know, and so just to show like, yeah, this is really part of it.

[00:40:17] which you have to do as a business owner. That's probably, you know, up there in the top three questions I get from people, like, how can I be deeply rested and visible as a business owner? It feels impossible. And if you're coupling that with this rejection sensitivity, It's just, phew, it feels really vulnerable and really challenging.

[00:40:51] And I just said like, I was like, I'm about to go into a really vulnerable time.

[00:40:57] Paulette: Shit.

[00:40:59] Paulette: Yeah. This is like in person asking for tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's going to be holy crap a lot. So

[00:41:23] But it shows up for all of us in different ways, if it's asking someone if they want to be your client or pitching your newsletter on a podcast, like there are ways in which we are all putting ourselves out there all the time. And I think the more people who are willing to say, Hey, I get rejected all the time.

[00:41:53] Paulette: Yeah. I sent this… I was just looking at it. I sent this long message to someone who I wanted to partner with me on my ADHD class. I'm like, I want to do this and dah. And I'd love to have you and blah, blah, blah, blah... It's a block, right? And she just wrote back Lowercase, just no. And I just

[00:42:09] Paulette: Yeah, that's it. I was like,

[00:42:13] That would've stung me.

[00:42:29] You know, I hate that I'm like an anxiety wuss. And so everyone sees that you're so brave. It's cause I was like, Don't be that person. I hate you a lot. And this is what, you know, my novel is about, is like self acceptance and

[00:42:54] Oh God. Yeah. That's really hard. And yeah, but it's not, I mean,.. You read all the books, but not everybody you know reads all the books, so that's hard.

[00:43:26] And then there are people who really get stuck in the shame spiral around it, and they want to hide it, and they don't want people to know, and they don't want to accept it themselves. So I'm just curious, for those listening who are more in the shame side of the ADHD discovery process, what do you want to say to those people?

[00:44:15] And to me, that seems like really shame-based behavior. It seems like hiding in a way. And it also seems like you don't feel you deserve the compassion or the accommodation that any physical disability would clearly warrant. And you might not feel shame about having that if it were a physical disability.

[00:44:53] Maegan: So get into community.

[00:44:55] Maegan: Shower yourself in self love, be a little bit kinder, and don't hide from it.

[00:45:01] Maegan: That's what I'm hearing, and it's really beautiful advice. You're also just, you have sprinkled in so much fantastic advice into this whole conversation about how you are making your business work for you as a person with ADHD.

[00:45:34] You go there, you let yourself follow the flow of your energy. You give yourself space to experiment with lots of different

[00:45:55] And on top of that, you have created a structure with the Writer's Mission Control Center to give you the organizational tools and strategy that you need to be productive in the capitalist material world because we can't ignore that. Right? We can't ignore that there's a certain way we're supposed to show up.

[00:46:36] Paulette: Thank you. It does sound really nice when you describe it. Ha ha ha ha ha.

[00:46:41] Paulette: Day to day, the lived experiences, you know, I teach in the writing group that I teach with meditation. You know, I talk about it like it's like meditation, like being disorganized or like getting off track, just coming back.

[00:47:16] Maegan: For you.

[00:47:35] I can just, I see it's like you, you bloom, you blossom into this person who's like figuring out how to make it work.

[00:47:46] Maegan: And in the other piece of this equation that I love about you is that you are, again, you're so open and transparent about the way that you are still a chaos monster and probably always will be. Yeah, we don't have to, you don't have to change that about yourself.

[00:48:18] So, yeah, that's the way it is.

[00:48:46] You just have to do it in your own way.

[00:48:59] when I get to this point. And then we're constantly moving the goalposts. You know, we get there and we're like, yeah... And we just keep going, we keep going.

[00:49:28] It's like, if this isn't a tremendous success, I don't know what is.

[00:49:42] Paulette: I'm calling it Harnessing ADHD's Wild Horse Power, because there's so many horse metaphors,

[00:49:52] Paulette: I did write, yeah.

[00:49:55] Paulette: Yeah, my, the horse I had was like very... He would be really stubborn going out and then I would turn him around and he would want to bolt back to the barn. And I would just sometimes let the reins go and I would just, we would gallop as fast as we possibly could.

[00:50:37] You create a community and so I want to create a space where everyone has ADHD.

[00:51:00] And they are going to be your accountability partners and your buddies throughout the entire class.

[00:51:13] Paulette: They can go to pauletteperhach. com, and you will see, Harnessing ADHD's Wild Horsepower, link on the top.

[00:51:47] I learn so much from your newsletters, Paulette, and from the places where you talk about rejection, and you talk about your journey, and we get to witness you in real time doing your business in a way that works for you. It's such a great... it's just one of my favorite newsletters to open. So if people want to join your newsletter, how can they do that?

[00:52:10] Maegan: That's amazing. Anything else you

[00:52:13] Paulette: You can also do ThatWriterPaulette in case you can't write it down right now and can't forget my, or can't remember my last name.

[00:52:21] Paulette: Yeah.

[00:52:40] Thank you so much.