At last we utter the controversial word... spank! Do we have to do it? Why or when would we do it? Also, do we parent our children differently when they become saved? We'll talk about this and more in part 2 of our gentle parenting series!

Congrats to our giveaway winners Sarah Burge, Kim Dainsberg, Hayley Lloyd, and Brittany Zajac!

Scriptures Referenced:

Matthew 7:23

Jeremiah 17:8-9

Proverbs 22:15

Ephesians 6:1-4

Galatians 1:10

1 Corinthians 14:33

Colossians 2:8

They're the joyful agains our children shout on the swings, the

2

exhausting agains of cooking and laundry,

and the difficult agains of discipline.

3

So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

4

So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called

5

to, and went to bed believing we

are faithful in what matters most?

6

We believe God's Word is

the key to untangle from the

7

confusion and overwhelm we feel.

8

Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

9

Hey mama.

10

Welcome back to the again, podcast where

we wholeheartedly believe that the things

11

you do over and over matter to God.

12

I'm your host, Stephanie Hickox.

13

And this is brought to you

by entrusted ministries.

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Today, we're beginning at three

part series on gentle parenting.

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You can't go far and studying

parenting these days with out coming

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across this prevalent theory.

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And if we believe that the things

you do over and over matter to God.

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Then there are some key topics in

parenting that we better make sure

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that we are on the same page about.

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And the only page we want to be

on are the pages of scripture.

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In this series, we'll discuss the

origins of the gentle parenting movement.

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We're also going to define our terms.

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We hear a lot about gray spaced.

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Fear-based.

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Gentleness.

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Discipline.

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What does it all mean?

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And what does God's word

really say about it?

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We're going to talk about why

some books written by believers

30

on the topic of discipline are

actually not true to scripture.

31

We're also going to clarify Entrusted's

position on grace and discipline.

32

And make sure that you know

exactly where we stand.

33

I think it's really

important before we begin.

34

That I share something called

the four DS that Betsy.

35

Explains an entrusted.

36

The four DS are defiance,

disobedience, danger, and dishonesty.

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And we are called to be biblically

faithful in those moments and

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faithful to our children and directing

them away from those choices.

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I'm going to say those four DS again.

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Defiance disobedience

danger and dishonesty.

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And I think that's so helpful to

understand as we go into this conversation

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that you understand, when do I discipline?

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also Betsy talks about that.

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There is a wide spectrum of

discipline and the Bible provides

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many tools for us as parents

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that we can use.

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To train our children.

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You will hear the controversial word

spank in this series, but when we

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say discipline, we aren't always.

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Meaning spanking our children.

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We'll address spanking quite a

bit in part two of this series.

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We will also speak to the idea of,

do you discipline your children

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differently once they become saved?

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And we're seeing this come up a lot.

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So we want to address that too.

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And please stick around for the

end of the episode, where I

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announced the giveaway winners.

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Stephanie: Let's get to that interview

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Jen: I think one of the benefits that as

we've heard some of the things in culture

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and read the scriptures and studied the

scriptures and then also read and then

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taken entrusted, one of the things that

I appreciate about how entrusted handles

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some of this is it takes some of these

things that these parenting books and

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culture are saying that sound good.

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They sound like they're

scripturally based.

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But it's a little confusing.

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Is the theology on this the way the

Bible teaches, is this psychology,

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is this scripture, what is this

and what does this look like?

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And I feel like Entrusted has done a

good job of helping us to understand the

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difference between biblical principles.

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Convictions and the difference

between that and personal preferences.

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And.

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Personal convictions.

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And it also separates and helps

us understand the difference

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between how to parent a toddler

versus how to parent a teenager.

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The lying in a toddler discipline is

a different than lying in a teenager.

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And not only that, but it also

helps us to discern between

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the will and the emotion.

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What is a willful disobedience and

where does it fall under emotion?

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Or just discern.

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Ignorance, like they,

they need training here.

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And some of these things that we hear in

culture, they put it all in one bucket

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and say, don't ever don't ever say no,

don't ever spank, don't ever give anyone a

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discipline in order to change their heart.

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No, we know we can't change their heart.

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We know that.

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And we're not seeking

behavior modification.

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We are trying to draw out their hearts and

turn their affections towards the Lord.

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But I feel like.

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There's needs to be so much more clarity

on what are, let's define our terms here.

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And, And I think that Entrusted has done a

good job of doing that where some of these

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other parenting things, the terms are not

defined and it causes so much confusion.

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Stephanie: And so much

pressure on the mother.

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What looks on the outset that it would

be a freeing mentality is actually

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causing you to discern so much.

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Is my child safe right now?

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I don't know.

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Are they bearing fruit?

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But there's so much scripture

about saying you might not know.

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Jesus is going to say on

some day, depart from me.

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I never knew you.

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You did all these things in my

name, but you didn't know me.

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And so to ask a mother to be able

to discern that in a young child,

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the Lord's not asking that of us.

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He's asking us to be faithful

and training them in obedience

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is being biblically faithful.

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Betsy: And I think that we need to

understand that there's a spectrum

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of discipline that certain types

of discipline are appropriate for

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different stages, as you said, Jen.

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And of course, thinking is most

appropriate for the younger children

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who equate, touching, going under the

coffee table and bumping their head.

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That discomfort with the mom's

intervene, intervention and saying,

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No, this, you will receive discomfort

if you disobey me in this area.

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And it's really for their safety

and protection also, but for them to

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understand the world has consequences.

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That's how God designed it.

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If we take all that away from our

children, we're just setting them up

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for failure in the world because those

consequences are definitely out there.

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So when we look at the spectrum of

discipline, we can say for older

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children, it could be different things.

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And I think the big.

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The thing for parents is I

don't even like that word.

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I think it's harsh and abusive.

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It's not.

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If you equate it in any way

with abuse, you have a errant

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understanding of what it is.

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I cannot stand.

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I despise it.

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I hate it.

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And so does God.

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Why would God tell us to spank our

children if it was those things?

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It is not.

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But What we do have is an

errant understanding of what

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it is, and therefore, we

assimilate into our thinking.

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We synchronize it with

what the world tells us.

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The world tells us it's abusive and really

what's happened in a lot of those cases is

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one child in a, a huge number Is abused.

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And the pe and the parents say

that they were disciplining them.

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When they weren't disciplining them.

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They were abusing them.

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And let's call abuse.

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And we won't stand for it.

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Mm hmm.

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We hate it, but it is not the same thing.

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And I think because that sort of

rhetoric has played out in the

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last many years, last 50 years.

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That's changed the whole culture and the

culture even within the church to think

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we have to move towards this gentle thing.

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We have to move towards not even

challenging our children when they're,

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taking the cookie out of the cookie

jar before dinner when you said no.

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We just, we have to appeal to their

emotions and say, we know how you

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felt about that cookie and would

it have been a better choice?

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To save it, maybe you want to put it over

here and he'll be waiting for you After

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you eat dinner and all of these things

in which really you're appealing to the

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most selfish based desires of the child

What will appease you maybe I can make you

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think a little bit differently about it

So that I can actually get the behavior I

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want with from you Without any discipline.

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And, as you said before, foolishness is

bound up in the heart of a child and the

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rod of discipline removes it far from him.

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That's important for us to

go through those things.

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If somebody chooses not to

spank, that's their choice.

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If they choose to spank,

that's their choice.

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But we would ask that they would do

it in a biblical in a gracious manner,

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in a gentle manner, in a loving

manner, in a manner where it ends

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with a hug and a kiss and I love you.

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And it's done forever.

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It's such a humane whatever the

discipline is, it needs to end up

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with the child knowing that sin has

been hopefully covered by the Lord.

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Unless the child's is unbelieving,

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Stephanie: The matter has been resolved.

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We're not going to hold it against them.

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it up.

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If we really believe that this is for

the child's future good, we understand

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we are not punishing the child.

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This is not about them paying

a payment for their sin.

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They cannot do that.

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What we're saying is for your good, I

want to draw a line here and say you

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may not do that and we're deterring them

from doing the same thing in the future.

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It is not, they are

not paying for the sin.

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And then if we really believe it's

for their good, it's very hard to

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come into that situation with anger.

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Because there, a lot of this movement

is saying we're being triggered.

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And what is wrong with the mother that

she wants to take this out on a child?

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And part of that is correct.

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Evaluate your heart, make

it right before the Lord.

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You would never take out

your own sin upon your child.

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And we agree with that wholeheartedly.

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But we don't say, because you are

fallen, don't prevent them from sin.

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We would say, get your heart right

before the Lord and understand,

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I want To bless your future.

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I'm setting you up for success

by teaching you boundaries,

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teaching you to obey authority.

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These commands are for

your good as the Lord says.

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Betsy: moralists, but it's, as in the

example of Paul, there's a certain amount

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of training we do as parents, whether

we're believing parents or not, to raise

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a person that's equipped to operate in

society, and all parents will pretty

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much fall under the same guidelines

of, You know, a lot of boundaries,

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but

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what we're talking about is training

that will to submit to the authority

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of their parents that in time it

submits to the authority of God,

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but it goes a step further because

there's no way in the pride of man's

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heart and his selfishness that he can

do that without learning to humbly.

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To come before the Lord in humility.

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There's no prideful person.

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That's gonna say hey, I Accepted

the Lord or and I don't even

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like that term accepted.

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Who are we to say we accept him but

to is gonna come to the Lord in pride.

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Hey, yeah.

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No, we come before him on our faces

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Because

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we realize This is nothing You

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of

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my own doing.

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Entirely of your doing.

214

And so we want to be careful that we're

not confusing the two issues there.

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And we want to make sure that people

understand that even if your child

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doesn't seem like they, they may be

remorseful for the situation at the

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time, that it's not It's not until

they receive true salvation, that

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gift, that they will really come

to understand their sin before God.

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And that's why sometimes it's difficult

for young children to accept the

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Lord because they really don't able

to comprehend, how they have sinned

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against God or understand repentance.

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But we're training them in the

skill to say I have done wrong

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and I want to make it right.

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I, and it's humane for the child to

remove that anxiety of what they've done.

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Jen: And

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we're training them up the

way that they should go.

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These are spiritual disciplines that

God calls us to seek forgiveness

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When we have done something wrong

to someone else and in our own

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efforts, we can't muster that up

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we can't arrive there.

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It has to be the Holy Spirit

working in us, but that doesn't

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mean that we don't train our

children in the way they should go.

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And we pray and constantly entrusted as

talking about as the scriptures do to

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lift up our child before the Lord and

ask the Lord to do the work in their

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hearts and to to, Change the pattern

of sinful behavior to fill him with

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the Holy Spirit and that the, that this

child would become a child of the King.

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But we, that doesn't negate that we don't.

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We don't train them just until they become

a Christian because who, what parent

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ever knows when that exact moment is.

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And so we train them up

in the way we should go.

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And we let the Lord be the

one to change the heart.

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We just take the tools that he has

given us and we are faithful with

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those tools of spiritual disciplines.

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And we lay those before the

cross and we lift our child up

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in prayer as well as ourselves.

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I am constantly praying.

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God, I don't know what

to do in this moment.

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Give me wisdom.

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Give me discernment.

250

Help me to understand how I can handle

this little heart here and how I

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can turn its affections towards you.

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How I can make awareness of the sin

and what's going on because their heart

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is deceitful and desperately wicked.

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So is mine.

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But you've given us different

definitions in scripture of what sin is.

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You've given us definitions and Examples

of what obedience is, and you've

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given us definitions and examples of

what happens when we don't obey you.

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If you tell us not to look back, and

we do, you become a pillar of salt.

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There are consequences in scripture.

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And so we are trying to help them

to understand this is for your good.

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This is for a God who loves

you and you want to submit your

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heart and your life to him.

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He is a good God and he is trustworthy.

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Betsy: And I

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think we have to figure out

what does obedience mean?

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And does the Lord ask

our children to obey?

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We know that there's just a,

there's one commandment that

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God gives children in the Bible.

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It's children obey your

parents in the Lord.

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Honor your father and mother,

obey and honor your parents.

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I think obedience

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is pretty, pretty clear there.

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But if we weren't sure, then we could

go through the whole Bible and we could

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see it everywhere as a pervading theme.

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So why would it be that we would think

that our children wouldn't need to obey

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us or that we could, allow their little

minds to figure it out for themselves or

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Basically we're letting their desires rule

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Jen: to ask them, why did you do that?

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They don't know why they did that.

280

They wanted the toy and they

grabbed it from their brother.

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They don't have the ability to

discern and understand that.

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And so we're training them, look.

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In your heart, you probably were selfish

or you were jealous or different things.

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These are things that our hearts do.

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And mommy has that as well.

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That doesn't allow us

to continue on in that.

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We don't ask the child

why they were doing it.

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We help them along to see.

289

Now as an older child, yes, a teenager,

we have those discussions with them, but

290

with the little toddler, We're helping

them understand what is going on in

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their hearts because they don't know.

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All they saw is a toy that they wanted,

but they didn't understand why they

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wanted it or , why it's wrong to take it.

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Stephanie: Well, I think that's why I

love the full circle so much because

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they're age appropriate questions.

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If you say what happened, you're

helping the child express.

297

They're communicating about their

sin and it's revealing to them.

298

They're starting to become

aware of their sin, asking

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them a deeper heart motivation.

300

They might know, because like you

said, it can take us a while to figure

301

out our heart motivations, but saying

what happened and talking over the

302

situation and guiding them, what would

have been the God honoring choice.

303

Those are much more age appropriate

and I've seen, even in my three year

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olds, this is incredible how this

process really guides them in such

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a restorative process of recognizing

their sin, recognizing You know what

306

they should have done differently and

recognizing their need for a savior.

307

And then it concluding in so much

resolution and love and tenderness between

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us that to me, when I read about what

spanking is for other people, it does,

309

it grieves my heart because God designed

it to be such a restorative process.

310

Jen: And I think that we also need

to teach and train our children, as

311

scripture says, to take every thought

captive and make it obedient unto Christ.

312

That they are not to just take their every

whim of emotion and follow it through

313

and imagine all the different things.

314

No, you are in control of this.

315

You take that thought and you

make it captive and hold it.

316

Take it captive and make

it obedient to Christ.

317

And we teach them and train them how

to do it, because that is not in

318

their hearts, that's not natural.

319

Stephanie: I love in Galatians 1

10, it says, For am I now seeking

320

the approval of men, or of God?

321

Or am I trying to please man?

322

If I were still trying to please man,

I would not be a servant of Christ.

323

And I think that's such a good

caution for if we're continually

324

researching what the world has to say.

325

And we're not digging into

scripture for ourselves.

326

Or even if we're listening to what some

other believers are saying, we need

327

to be testing that by the word of God.

328

So that would be my challenge.

329

I didn't read, as many books as you

engendered on this, but I felt you know

330

what, I'm just going to start in the word.

331

And, you can't get very far without

finding that God says, no, you may

332

not touch this tree in the garden.

333

And then you see how their

disobedience creates fear.

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They now have an unhealthy fear of God.

335

And you can see.

336

That they were walking with him in

the garden and having peace with

337

God when they were obeying him.

338

So you see that the Lord

sets clear boundaries for us.

339

And then of course we know

that Jesus was promised and

340

he restores that relationship.

341

But then you get, even if you start

in the new Testament and Zachariah did

342

not believe God's promise and the Lord

gave him a consequence right away.

343

So we can see these blessings of

obedience and these consequences

344

for disobedience all over scripture.

345

the Lord will be so faithful to reveal

truth to us when we are in his word.

346

We can't be reading many

things in the world.

347

And then, going to scripture a

little bit for snacking, and expect

348

that all of this will become clear.

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Betsy: 1433 for God is not a God

of confusion, but of peace as in

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all the churches of the saints.

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There's being in a fellowship of

believers that know the truth and

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follow the truth and live under

the authority of God's word.

353

There's a peace in that.

354

It's not a constant fear of what people

think or judging your parenting, but

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there's a peace in knowing that I'm

doing what And God has called me to do.

356

And then, and another verse,

see to it that no one takes

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you captive, Colossians 2, 8,

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2, through

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philosophy and empty deception, according

to the elementary principles of this

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world, according to the traditions of men.

361

And I might have those two

phrases backwards, but rather

362

than according to Christ.

363

So this is always our goal.

364

We want everything that we do to

be according to Christ, and we

365

are striving to be more like him.

366

And in being more like him, we understand

more God's discipline of us because

367

people will say and we agree, train

your children the way God trains you or.

368

And I often say we can take

that even to a lower level.

369

Treat your child the way you'd want

to be treated in the situation.

370

But that doesn't mean that

they don't need discipline.

371

And I think parents have wrongly

assumed that any sort of discomfort or

372

angst or pain or whatever is contrary

to how a child should be raised.

373

And that's just not the law

of natural science or physics.

374

And I think that in even going one step

further, the Lord allows suffering in

375

our lives as a part of our discipline

and not necessarily just for our sin.

376

He disciplines us according to his

will that we may be become holy,

377

that we may partake in his divine

nature, that we may become more like

378

Christ, that we may be sanctified.

379

That's nothing we can do and

we can't sanctify our children.

380

I think we always need to make that point.

381

That's the Lord's work.

382

Salvation.

383

Lord's work, Sanctification,

completely the Lord's work, but that

384

doesn't mean we sit with our hands

in our pockets and we, run around,

385

we said yesterday like chickens with

their heads cut off because we are

386

completely confused about what to do.

387

And when we realize if we're going

to parent the way God parents

388

us, we realize that there's some

discomfort, there's consequences.

389

That aren't sometimes even a relation,

relating to our disobedience or sin.

390

There's some hard lessons in

life that we learn, which are the

391

character building lessons that

don't necessarily have consequences.

392

But what those are doing is

they're restricting certain

393

behaviors to conform us.

394

And I don't mean that in the

sense that we're trying to

395

make a cookie cutter person.

396

We're always looking to You.

397

Modeling, and looking to the

supreme example of Christ.

398

We, and I don't want to get back into

the issue too much of trying to make

399

a judgment as to whether they're saved

or not, because we can't really make

400

that judgment when they're young.

401

We know that when they're older,

they'll have a crisis of faith,

402

hopefully, and they'll say, rather than

taking my parents faith for granted.

403

I want to live for the Lord.

404

And that's when we know the

change really takes place.

405

And the sanctification

works in their heart.

406

And the training that we

instilled in them is taking root.

407

But you know what?

408

We need to restrain that two year

old from running in the road.

409

We don't wait till we find

out, oh, they're saved.

410

And we put that restriction on a behavior.

411

So there's a preventative discipline

too, that's just a normal set of life.

412

I think there's also a couple dangers

in discipline, and we see this.

413

There's dangers in parenting of being

too lax and being too permissive

414

or lenient, which we would call

license, and we talk about that a lot,

415

Stephanie: I think it's interesting,

here we have this philosophy introduced

416

culturally in the 1940s or 1950s.

417

And, for lessening authority.

418

And now we're a couple of

generations away from that.

419

And we have the highest rates

of anxiety and depression.

420

It's ironic to me that they're saying

this is the answer for a secure child.

421

When everything around us is

pointing to this culture, really.

422

a lack of character and a lack

of healthy emotional well being.

423

So I'm just, I'm not seeing

424

Betsy: more so than ever.

425

And now for those giveaway winners,

the grand prize goes to Sara Birch.

426

The next prize goes to Kim Dae Ensberg

and then Haley Lloyd, and Brittany is a

427

Jack will be receiving those everyday.

428

Before you say tart packs.

429

I'll be contacting you ladies

for your shipping information.

430

Thank you so much for entering.

431

We really appreciate your

wonderful ideas about the episode

432

topics you'd like to hear about.

433

We'll see you next week for part

three of this gentle parenting series.

434

Stephanie: We know you're busy,

Mama, so we are truly grateful you

435

joined us for this episode of Again.

436

If you're looking for more information

about building your home on the

437

foundation of Jesus Christ, head to www.

438

EntrustedMinistries.

439

com to learn more about our study for

moms, Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

440

This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

441

world, and we want it for you, too.

442

Before you go, I want to pray

this benediction over you

443

from 2 Thessalonians 1, 11 12.

444

We're rooting for you.

445

To this end, we always pray for you,

that our God may make you worthy of His

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calling, and may fulfill every resolve

for good and every work of faith by

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His power, so that the name of our Lord

Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in

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Him, according to the grace of our God.

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And the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Amen.

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Until we meet again.