"Every time we give an award to someone, there is one of our six values that's tied in with the citation."

• Don Young

In this episode of the Zweig Letter Podcast, we share a panel session from the Zweig Group's 2024 ElevateAEC event. We delve into the evolving landscape of modern work environments and the importance of maintaining a thriving culture in the architectural, engineering, and construction (AEC) industry. Host Chad Coldiron is joined by industry leaders Joseph Campos, Don Young, and Shelby Harvey, who share their insights on what it means to be recognized as one of the Best Firms to Work For.

The panel discusses their unique journeys into the AEC industry, the significance of employee engagement surveys, and how to turn feedback into actionable change. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on fostering a positive workplace culture, tackling challenges in remote work, and the essential qualities of effective leadership. This episode is a must-listen for professionals looking to enhance their firms and create an environment where employees thrive.

Key Takeaways:

• Employee Engagement: Regular surveys and feedback mechanisms are vital for understanding employee needs and improving workplace culture.
• Celebrating Success: Acknowledging achievements, both big and small, fosters a sense of belonging and motivates teams.
• Flexibility in Work: Balancing remote work with in-office presence is crucial for maintaining team dynamics and productivity.
• Leadership Qualities: Effective leaders embody humility, vulnerability, and a positive mindset, which are essential for building trust and collaboration within teams.
• Cultural ROI: Investing in professional development and creating clear career paths can significantly improve employee retention and satisfaction.

• Chapters:
• (00:00) Introduction
• (01:30) Panelist Introductions
• (05:00) Discovering a Career in AEC
• (15:00) Importance of Employee Engagement
• (25:00) Insights from the Best Firms to Work For
• (35:00) Maintaining Company Culture
• (45:00) Q&A Session
• (55:00) Conclusion

All this and more on this episode of the Zweig Letter podcast.

Links referenced in this episode:

Connect with Chad Coldiron on LinkedIn

Connect with Joseph Campos on LinkedIn

Connect with Don Young on LinkedIn

Connect with Shelby Harvey on LinkedIn

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We highly encourage you to listen to the full episode to gain deeper insights into how AI is poised to revolutionize the design industry. Stay tuned for more enlightening content from the Zweig Letter podcast, and make sure to subscribe for regular updates!

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

Elevate AEC Keynote - Empowering AEC Professionals: Trends and Strategies for Success with Chad Clinehens and Bill McConnell

AI Transforming AEC: From Design to Recruitment and Beyond with KP Reddy

Reg Prentice on simplifying data management for design firms

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Website: Zweig Group

Welcome to the Zweig Letter Podcast.

Putting architectural engineering, planning and environmental consulting advice and guidance in your ear.

Zweig Group's team of experts have spent more than three decades elevating the industry by helping AEP and environmental consulting firms thrive, and these podcasts deliver invaluable management, industry client marketing and HR advice directly to you free of charge.

The zweigletter Podcasts Elevating the Design Industry One Episode at a Time.

A special thanks to School of P.E.

they've partnered with us this year for this Best Firms to Work For.

They've helped us kind of enhance some of the Zweig Insights processes that you all see.

Those will keep happening and just wanted to give them a quick shout out.

So the bar has been lifted high this week.

I'm confident you're going to enjoy hearing some of the highlights from our next group.

And during our conversation today, we'll explore the evolving landscape of modern work environments, share some insights on maintaining a thriving culture despite all the stuff that keeps us up at night.

Right, so prepare your questions.

We'll have time for that at the end and would love to take some difficult ones.

I'll probably just pass those off to the panelists though.

So now for a couple quick intros.

To my immediate left, we've got Joseph Campos.

Joseph is the CEO and CIO at Compost Engineering.

They were.

They were our number one best ranked firm to work for in the 49 to 50 or to 99 category.

We've got Don Young.

Don's the EVP of operations and organizational development at MBP.

They ranked out at number two this year in our 200 plus employee category.

That's our largest category, so lots of competition there.

And then of course, my friend Shelby Harvey.

Shelby's the Talent and development director and HR director at BHC.

They fell at number 30 this year from our 199 employee category.

That's actually our largest participating category, so competition is very stiff there.

Shelby is also one of our Rising Stars winners.

We'll celebrate that tonight, of course, at the gala.

And we've been able to work together a few times now, whether it was through our Elevate her cohort or another panel that we've done.

So we've had practice and it's just always great to have you participate.

So thanks for doing this again and thank you two for joining us as well.

Just to kick things off, let's get to know each of you a little bit better.

Tell us about yourselves and maybe the moment that you discovered that the AEC industry was A career for you and something that you never wanted to look back from.

I can start off so again, Joseph Campos.

And for me, I absolutely have a passion for solving problems.

Since I was a little kid, I've always been building.

Whether it was sticks, mud, it didn't matter.

And so when I was able to channel that and kind of bring it into engineering and then also pair that with I absolutely love people.

And so bringing those two together, which kind of seemed a little bit opposite, that's when I kind of fell in love with the AEC industry.

Then really when I realized that even in this room, imagine the lights turned off, it's 90 degrees, the humidity is like 70%.

It'd be miserable.

We wouldn't even be in here.

The first thing we would do is we would leave this space.

And so that's what we do as a firm.

We make it to where we can be in here and we can learn and we can elevate.

That's when I fell in love.

And beyond that.

So personally, three kiddos, wife of 12 years, live in Dallas, Texas and just excited to be up here.

I started at BHC eight years ago and I'm not an engineer by trade, so.

So I did not know what I was getting myself into.

I started off as the office coordinator at our front desk because it was really hard to get an entry level HR job.

They all wanted you to have two to five years of experience.

I'm not sure where they thought you were supposed to get those, but it ended up being a very happy accident.

I realized I was stuck in the AEC industry when I started going out and I started noticing puddles in parking lots and they just civil.

Working with civil engineers has just completely ruined me.

I noticed those types of things all the time.

It was really bad curbs, poorly designed drive through lanes just really irk me now.

And it was that 100% of women principals in the AEC industry have seriously considered leaving the profession or that industry at some point in their career.

And the first thought I had was, well, that really sucks because I've met a lot of great women in this industry and the second thought I had was challenge accepted.

So that's my role in hr is to make sure that we keep women in and that we keep in people from diverse backgrounds.

And I think we've heard a lot of Good things about that during this panel so far and during the other panels previously.

So excited to be here.

All right, well, good morning everybody.

My name's Don Young and I'm the executive vice president for operations and organizational development for mvp.

And we're a construction management firm predominantly along the east coast.

We have about 350 team members and so we work primarily with a lot of public agencies.

So prior to me joining MBP 18 years ago was I've served as a US army officer, as an engineer officer and helping out with several times with the Army Corps of Engineer projects and those kind of things throughout my career as well as some deployments that were in there, but we won't talk about them.

But I think that when I flash back to when did I think that working in the AEC industry was for me was in high school and summers in college I worked for a surveying crew and it wasn't.

I wasn't at the elevated position of running the transit or even note keeping.

I was the guy at the dumb end of the tape and I was the guy driving hubs in red clay for blue top grade.

And so that made me very motivated.

I'm going to finish my civil engineering degree and get out and become an engineer.

So that kind of was where my moment it was with that piece on it.

So I think that there's a lot of, a lot of similar stories that I'm sure that are out there about when you found out about it.

And I think that's what's so great about the AEC industry is that you don't have to be have a degree in engineering or architecture to be very successful in the industry.

And I know a lot of professional organizations are promoting the non traditional education part to really help out with filling some of the critical gaps that we have in our labor pool that we badly need.

So that's kind of my story from there.

But anyway.

Well, I've got a non traditional path and just like Shelby, I had a fine career before.

I was happy with what I doing.

But I have an older brother who's a senior designer.

He's got a great career in the AEC and he always told me along the way once I got into work I didn't realize that I was not going to just be working with architects or just be working with engineers.

There are all these other functions at these firms where guys like you with a dime a dozen business degree, as Mark said, can get in there and make an impact and actually at a pretty high level.

So I took that to note, I also knew this guy named Mark Zweig who drive up and down one of the main strips of Fayetteville, Arkansas, where we're from, and his mullet waving in the air.

And I just kind of always wondered what does that guy do?

And so I put a little research in, kind of made a connection or two and realized, okay, this could be a really fun and engaging career to go in and work with this industry.

Of course you would never want me to design anything or put any input there, but the people and the processes and the things that we can take away from an education like I had were very applicable.

So that was fun to see.

So it was an easy decision once I once I was able to get in that I was going to do whatever I could to stay impact our firm internally, wear whatever hat I had to, and then just engage and work with clients in any way I could touch.

So the industry is very inviting.

I think once once you get in there and understand some of these businesses and just proud that all of us and Zweig Group can help educate some of the world about it.

So let's talk about why we're here.

You guys are best firms to work for award winners.

We're proud of that award.

It's one of the only ones that focuses just on the AEC industry.

Of course you've got your local and regional type awards like this, but we really try to elevate that process.

So just diving right into it when your firm earns that spot, when we have the announcement day and you either get the phone call early or you get that email that says you've been placed, your data is now available.

What are some of the first things that you do that you want to turn into the game changers with some of the data that you pull out from the best firms award?

Shelby?

Yeah, I can kick it off.

So we've participated for the past six years.

So we always tell our employees it's really not about the award.

It is the engagement survey that we use throughout the year.

What we like about it is that it compares us to firms of similar size and we are able to see where we stack up not just year over year for ourselves, but also with the industry so we can track those trends and really hone in on those focus areas.

Comes out in summer and then by the time we come around to strategic planning time, we have done a full analysis of the survey results that we've gotten comparing year over year we can really identify those pain points so that we can bring those into those strategic planning discussions early and make sure that we are having those in mind as we're determining what our next couple of years are looking like.

What do we really want to hone in and focus on?

And I think what has made it meaningful is we've done a lot better job over the past couple of years communicating that to employees because I think we've all experienced survey fatigue from our people and really struggling to get them to respond to those.

And it's a hefty survey, but for good reason, because you get a lot of good data out of it.

And so being able to point to the different policy changes that we've made and not just being able to show them that, but then also looking and seeing how our scores have changed and then identifying, well, maybe we need to tweak things a little bit.

Maybe we didn't take it far enough.

Maybe we need to ratchet up our 401k contribution just a little bit more to get us over that hump, to get us closer to industry average has really been a good way for us to benchmark ourselves.

But then also show our employees that we're listening.

It's not Santa's wish list.

They don't get everything that they asked for.

They've been asking for four day work weeks for years now.

It's only a couple of people that are asking for that.

But we're able to talk to them then about the why that's not what we're focusing on right now and why we are choosing to focus on the things that we do.

So it's gone over well.

And we're getting to a point now where we've implemented so many of those things that we're getting to reassess and refine, which I think has been really great for us in our strategic planning.

Nice.

Joseph.

I know this is the first year you all participated, so just came out shopped for the stars.

It is.

You went way past the moon and hit the mark.

So.

Yes.

Yeah.

Talk us through it.

I would say the first thing is we take a page from Kit's book as we party.

Nice.

That's the first thing.

And for us, it's exciting because we have done internal surveys that look very similar to what we got from the Zweig group.

And it was a reinforcement from an external source that what we see and what we see and feel every day is validated through that survey.

So there's kind of a point to where if we were Shocked by being best place or best firms to work for.

I think that kind of distance would create kind of confusion.

But when it came through, it tracked, it made sense.

And I think that's the part to where nobody was really surprised.

It was an opportunity to celebrate and it was an opportunity to party because it's nice to have that.

The equivalent of the house is nicest yard sign shows up in the front.

It's cool to be able to have that.

And it's great for recruitment as well, to be able to communicate that to younger people that want to see something like that.

But ultimately for us, it was reinforcing and reiterating what we see every day.

And that was important to us.

I mean, like I said, to come out and have that first year experience.

You guys have set that bar high.

So I hope the party can expand in the future and it can be a regular thing.

I'd love lots of people out here looking who might have thought, hey, we might have number one this year.

And then you guys came out.

I was happy after getting to know you in Texas a few years ago.

It just makes sense.

I appreciate that.

Well, it's woven throughout our culture.

It is just who we are.

Don.

So it's a.

Each year when the survey comes out, it's a big deal, and so we really look forward to it every year.

And so we never take it for granted.

So we're always constantly doing improvements to continue to have a good culture from that.

But in particular, when the announcements come out, we always.

It's an immediate social media release as well as other information out, not only internal, but external to the team, and so that they can really feel that they're part of the celebration as well as the culture that we have.

And we really try to always tie back the results from the survey to our base six values that we have as a company.

And so every simple things, like every time we give an award to someone, there is one of our six values that's tied in with the citation that goes with it.

And so I just think that it's a big part of it.

We try to, as Shelby had talked about, limiting number of surveys because you get fatigued.

We do an annual benefits survey within our company to get direct feedback about that.

And so we try to keep it apart from when the SWEG survey comes out, but it ties a lot of the same feedback comes back into that.

And of course, one of my favorite stories about the benefits survey that we get that feeds into the culture was we had a couple of people that made a suggestion.

Well, my spouse, their firm has pet insurance, and so.

Pet insurance.

You know what?

Well, it turns out we got a lot of pet lovers in our company, and so we ended up finding a group in carrier and we offer pet insurance now that you can have as part of our benefits package.

So.

So there's a lot of neat things then.

That's just kind of a simple illustration of there are other things that directly tie into professional development as well as recruit, retain, retention.

And so it's an important part.

But the bottom line is we're a big believer in the SWIG survey and we're always happy to compete.

And so we've.

When I joined 18 years ago, the company was right at about 100, 105 team members, and now we're sitting at 350.

So that's progress.

That's very focused effort about how we strategically grow as a firm.

So, I mean, if you put yourself in the employee's shoes, this really has to be a give and take process.

I think you'd be lying if I asked everybody to raise your hand.

Who's ever had survey fatigue before?

Right.

You show up every other week, there's something that you need to fill out and give some feedback for.

And if you're not seeing actionable changes come out of those responses or that feedback you're giving, you're going to be less oriented to want to do that in the future.

So the fact that you guys weave that into your strategy, you react, you celebrate, I truly believe that's the difference maker in getting good responses.

We have a threshold level that you have to hit to qualify for the award.

And a lot of that is, hey, what percentage of your employees finished this survey?

So employees are less likely to finish that activity if they don't think it's going to result in something.

And you guys are a really good example of getting that back down to them and making it that give and take process.

And one of the things you mentioned, I think it was you when we first talked, was that the question at the end, if you could ask leadership one thing.

Yes.

I love that you all did that.

We incorporated it some, but not to the degree that you all did.

Yeah.

So what Shelby's referring to is that the question out of this wig survey, we probably get somewhere about 60 to 70 different questions that come out.

And so for last year and this year, we have made a effort to answer them publicly.

And so the CEO as well as other executive leaders take turns addressing those, and we do them in written form.

In updates.

We also do them in our quarterly town hall meetings where we'll pick some of the more common questions because if some one person asks, there's probably many others that are very interested in in that.

So that is.

Thanks for the reminder on that one.

That was because of dealing with survey and it's kind of a neat thing that we do with that aspect.

Thought it was great.

We had some of our leaders that.

So we printed out in a memo and we let employees know that our leadership team are going to read through every single one of those questions, even the hard ones.

And we've done a program called Luncheon Leaders where we have our leadership team just have a very, very casual.

We provide lunch for employees and they just kind of talk about their leadership experience and how they got to where they are.

And what I thought was interesting is a lot of our leaders, without my direction or from anyone, tackled some of those really tough questions on their own.

And it really went over well with people.

And so like you said, Chad, it's not even just the tangibles of like a policy change.

A lot of it is just letting people know that you are seriously considering it and just taking a step out of your office and having that conversation openly with people, I think really goes a long way.

Yeah, just simple communications.

One thing we work largely remotely.

We've got employees all over the U.S.

it's.

It's tough to connect.

Go to our teams page or our roster and our HRS system usually about once a week, a couple of times a week.

And I just try to say who have I talked to in a while?

And I just want to get some type of feedback out of them and check, see how they're doing, all of that.

But usually those are.

Those things pile up and we can take those to strategies.

So we don't.

Sometimes we do this award process for ourselves.

We'll take the same survey internally.

But we also just try to make it an engaging part of our day to day communication with our employees of what could we be doing better?

We don't always, maybe even more, more times than not accomplish some of these things, especially in a timely manner.

But having the conversations really, it takes it a long way.

All right, I'm going to steal something.

If you're a podcast listener to this Wigletter podcast, shout out to Randy back there.

So if you guys had to pick one superpower that every leader that your firm must have, what do you guys think that would be so I can.

Lead off on that?

For me, it would be attitude or Mindset, Pick which way you want to take that flavor.

The reason why is from a technical perspective.

And I kind of like picture yourself at a career fair.

So I'm talking to a student here who's trying to figure out whether they want to join our firm.

And I'm trying to figure out the same thing.

Like, this is dating, right?

And so it's quick.

You can figure out these are smart people.

For the most part.

These are very smart people.

So it's like, check the technical side.

We can teach that.

That's gonna come with time.

But what's your mindset?

If everything is always a problem and everything is always something to where you're backed into a corner and it's hard for you to work your way out of, it's gonna be really tough for us to work with that and to grow that.

Whereas if you're someone.

I'm not trying to say that there's not going to be challenges, though.

There will be, but your attitude and your mindset towards how you're going to approach that challenge of.

I don't actually know, but I'm going to do a little bit of research.

I'm going to try and do this.

I'm going to try and put a couple steps together, and then I'm going to see if you can help supercharge that with some momentum, with that technical expertise.

That, in my opinion, is something towards, like, now we can work with that.

If any of y'all have ever come across someone who even in a hard time, has said, acknowledges this is a really tough situation, but we're going to figure it out, or I want to be a part of the solution, what can I do to help that?

In my mind, let's go together.

We will do a lot of things.

That's who I want as a part of our team.

Because in my mind, you get four or five of those people together, try and stop us.

You can't.

It's mindset.

No, I agree.

The mental toughness, fortitude, stick to it, Ness, whatever you want to call it, right?

It's one of the best aspects that you can find in anyone because we're all smart.

I'll say that even when I sit around some of the most intelligent people I've ever met in this room, there's a.

There's the ability to learn, and that's a big part of this industry.

So once that is instilled, it really is about getting to the next level mentally.

And it's fun to watch when that happens.

Like you said, getting Those teams together, it's.

It's inspiring.

Agreed.

And it is something that can be grown at a certain point.

You can kind of see that potential, and you can say, follow me.

Let's team up.

Let's do this together.

And then before you know it, they're doing that exact same thing.

And in my opinion, that's a market success.

Nice.

I love that.

If I had to pick a superpower, notice how all the superpowers we're gonna pick are definitely gonna be more on the emotional intelligence side and not like, you have to be a whiz at cad.

So just keep that in mind when you guys are doing your recruiting.

The superpower I think I would pick would be humility.

And I say that because humility is that first step in being vulnerable with people.

And if you aren't vulnerable with others and you aren't holding yourself accountable to other people, then you can't be expected to hold them accountable.

Vulnerability and humility is the first step towards building trust.

Our leadership team has a.

Has a saying, check your ego at the door.

And that is something that I have always loved, especially coming in at a director role, probably a lot earlier than I expected to in my career, and after having a lot of these people worked with me when I was just the office coordinator that was cleaning up the conference table after they finish their meeting.

But I never had a fear when I was then walking in as their peer that I was going to be treated or viewed any differently because of that motto, check your ego at the door.

It makes it really easy for people at all levels to bring their ideas and that let me partner with you attitude.

There are people out there that are way smarter than me.

I'm only successful in my role because I have an amazing team, and I have people that have supported me, and I've always known where to turn when I don't know what to do.

So having that willingness to humble yourself, let other people know that you've made mistakes, is also going to make them more likely to share that with you so that you can solve it as a team rather than burying things.

Had a really good conversation yesterday during one of the roundtables about being willing to open up about your own mistakes to other people so that they're more willing to do the same with you.

And we had the example of keep your first set of red lines and how horrible that was, or at least just think about that.

And then when you're giving that to a young engineer and they're getting discouraged about that constructive criticism We've been hearing that young people in this incoming generation are open to that, but the way that they're going to be most willing to receive it is if you are also willing to meet them where they're at and say, hey, look, yeah, this is bad, but you should have seen some of the stuff that I did and some of the mistakes that I've made.

That really goes a long way in making them feel like, oh, I can see myself getting to where you are.

I want to follow in your footsteps.

And then they're going to be more open to that mentorship of, how do I get there?

Because they know that you're not going to drop them the second that they make a mistake.

So when I was a kid, the superpower I always wanted was to be able to fly.

I mean, Superman.

I mean, that was so cool.

So now that I've aged a little bit since then, the superpower, I think that would, I think, would really help out with where we are at MVP was the ability to read minds.

And we are big believers in effective communication two way up and down the chain of command.

And so being able to, I think, making sure that you can, that the person that you're talking with or group you're talking with is understanding what you're saying and you communicating back, I think that would really help out.

The way we're set up, about 60% of our workforce is they are out on project sites or embedded with a client.

And so.

And almost half of those are one person out.

So they're out by themselves on the pointy end of the spear, taking care of a client and delivering a project.

And so communicating with them on an effective and frequent way is a lot, and it's an important part of it.

It's a challenge that we still work on daily to improve on that.

But that's really, I think a key piece is effective communication and being able to help people to embrace where the company is going is more importantly and live the values daily.

And so I think that that's an important part.

So every company has to look at how you're set up and how your leadership is going to what roles and responsibilities that you have with that piece so that when you're communicating that it's effective and timely and is informative.

So that's.

How about share, just to build on what Shelby said there on vulnerability from a business perspective, that kind of communication side and vulnerability, the cheapest time to fix a mistake is on paper.

And so if you can get it while it's still on paper.

And you can have that communication and that vulnerability that is going to be better for your business.

So have that.

Whether it's resiliency, communication, humility.

These are all things that we just called superpowers.

But they're really core values, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And knowing what those set of core values are at your firm and being able to communicate them down, push these initiatives down in the light of those core values of the superpowers are really where firms start to set themselves apart.

Just going back to humility.

I don't know if Mark will remember this, but when I first started it's wide group, we lost a client, a client that Mark had a long history with and good connection with, because, you know, that happens from time to time.

And I was one of the lead folks on that engagement.

And what you say about getting that constructive feedback, I believe that's true.

I believe that's true for everybody.

But what we really fear is the human element in that.

How is that reaction going to actually come out?

You think you know someone until you get into a situation like that, and you really learn a little bit more about them.

And Mark was gracious.

I was nervous as hell.

I thought I did this.

Mark's gonna find out one way or another, and we need to go let him know.

And I just tried to hit it a little bit head on.

And I got one of the best, most genuine supportive reactions that I did not expect coming.

And it really changed the way I viewed leadership.

I viewed how people can communicate effectively, how you can be one way, one minute in an article or out in front of a group of folks, and then you can compartmentalize that and step aside and really impact someone in their career.

And so anybody who's younger in their career, definitely encourage that superpower, Figure out how to fix mistakes, clean up, own up, whatever it is, learn from it.

I think you'll realize that leaders think that's one of the best qualities that you can have, and it'll get you very close to your firm and those that you're working with.

If you can do that.

Yeah.

And Linda talked about in her presentation yesterday about key differentiators and what makes you stand out.

We know we're in a talent war right now.

You want to talk about how to retain people.

People can get a 5% increase at minimum, anytime they jump for a firm.

So if they want to jump for money, they're going to.

Money is not going to keep them.

What will keep them is that interaction that you had that many years ago that you're still recalling as you're sitting here on stage today.

And I can point to a ton of those types of interactions that I've had at BHC that made me think, yeah, maybe I could be a director.

I don't know if they think I can do it.

I think I've got the support.

I think I could figure it out.

So that's a great example of it.

Oh, yeah.

And one part I forgot was, of course, I hesitated, paced around a little bit.

How am I going to get in here?

Mark's busy.

Right.

And he's just hammering away on his BlackBerry.

So you're just like listening for the pause and those clicks and yeah, that day, I think back on it a lot.

I try to share that with a lot of employees, like, hey, come do us, come find us, let's talk.

We can fix things while they're still on paper.

And that's the important part.

I was a little past the paper at that part, but it was still fixed and we still got a great relationship with that firm.

Yeah.

So the most retention studies you see, one of the leading causes for departures is a bad supervisor.

So they'll leave for less money if they've got a bad supervisor.

So I think that's real important to make sure that at all levels, a firm is doing leadership training, in particular at the project manager level, and really spending that time investment to be able to have good leadership, because that's what's going to keep people.

Yeah.

I mean, with the quality of everything that we do in this industry, it's rare that people leave firms.

Right.

They're getting to do what they want to do.

You leave your manager, and that's a bit cliche, but I truly do believe that's what happens most of the time.

All right, so let's move on.

We'll talk about cultural roi.

That's the theme here.

Right.

So going back to what Chad Kleinhens referred to in his opening keynote, everything we know must change.

So how do you guys keep your company culture thriving and make sure it's not a nice to have check the box, but actually a key driver of success.

Dung.

Yeah.

All right.

So two and a half years ago, my CEO and CEO came to me and said, don, we want you to no longer be the PMCM practice leader.

We want you to take over and lead organization capacity, grow the company, focus on recruiting, retention, and professional development.

My first reaction was, what do you think?

They go, well, I'm not violently opposed to it.

Okay.

Because I love being in the Thick of things with the PMC and practice line leader.

That was really enjoyed that.

So this was a new role for the company.

The CEO had really focused in that we're going to invest in growth and we're going to have a senior executive leader in charge of it.

And so formed different work committees across the corporate staff as well as with our area management team.

And so I think that sitting back now two years, two and a half years later from the prospect, one, I really like what I'm doing.

So real kudos to my CEO for changing the light bulb in my head on that.

But then the second piece of it is that investing in that we're really looking at Net Gain.

And so we.

What were the components of Net Gain?

And I think this is the key part where we broke that down.

And on a quarterly basis we're working through and looking at the metric trends that come out of that.

For instance, simple thing like this.

We know that it takes somewhere between nine to to ten applications for us to get to the point of submitting or given a job offer.

So you can plan your flow within the recruiting process to be able to look at that retention.

We do quarterly analysis of why people left.

We're doing exit interviews, but the more important one that we're doing is stay interviews.

And so we're actually talking to people at least once a year.

Why what's important about what the company is and why you would.

What would it take for someone to lure you away?

And so people are just very upfront and so we can pull trends from that and be able to revise policies or take further action on some of the ideas that come out of that piece.

The other key thing that with Net Gain that we have out of that is professional development.

And so having a clearly defined career path for your team is key.

I mean, I cannot.

We had one of the speakers in one of the breakout sessions talking about that yesterday and I just can't overemphasize how important that is.

So they can see where they are now in your company, but how to get to whatever their personal career goal is within the company on how to do that and having good candid feedback that helps them to be able to work that piece.

The other thing that we looked at was, is that we always say, hey, get your license, get these certifications, okay?

But it was kind of like this hand wave kind of motion and all that.

Then what we started doing two years ago was to say we need this many CCM certified construction managers, we need this many certified commissioning Professionals, we need this many people.

And so we really tied it to the contracts that we have currently, as well as the business development pipeline of backlog, the pursuits that we were going after.

And so by doing that, now you're tied in with the mission of where you're trying to go for growth, but at the same time you're getting a twofer out of it because, oh, hey, I really want to get my pe and so what do I need to finish up to be able to get that and those kind of things?

So I just throw that out to you from that perspective that you know, so, and then, you know, what's the training that you're doing?

Why are you doing that training, who's participating?

Those are all things that you look at in the analysis that we're doing to be able to strengthen people's body of knowledge and skill sets.

And that drives a lot of how we do our BD pursuits, how we do our strategy, planning, how we professional develop our team.

And so it's all tied into the net gain concept for that.

So personally I've been given the charge of, hey, we need a positive net gain of 20 to 25 new team members a year.

So it's kind of a long answer to your short question, but it's all tied together.

And I know the purpose of our panel really to get into some of that ROI and those kind of things.

And so culture RI may not necessarily always be, hey, dollars, okay, it cost us $10,000 per job offer that we do by the time you add it all up and those kind of things.

So you want to retain people, not because you want, you like your workforce.

It costs a lot of money to recruit people.

And so being able to focus, we'd much rather take that $10,000, focus it in professional development and upskilling training and those kind of things to be able to improve each individual's career knowledge as well as being successful.

Because if our team members are successful, we're successful.

So it's kind of our philosophy.

So for me, so I think the question of cultural ROI and how to Prove that is really twofold.

The first thing I'll say is metrics, metric, metrics.

I for all my HR professionals out there, I truly think you need to become best friends with your IT department.

The best decision that I've ever made, having them build a dashboard for me so that I can track those numbers but not get so bogged down in them.

Data tells a story and having those numbers is really critical.

I always hear in these different breakout sessions that we have, hey, this is amazing.

How do I convince people that this is important?

And for those of us that in the room that have worked with engineers but are not an engineer, you've probably learned very quickly that you need to have the numbers to back up what you're saying.

It can't just be the touchy feely stuff.

So having a partnership with your IT department or whoever it is in your company that can really help you get those numbers so you can start to tell that story is the first step.

But numbers are just numbers.

Unless you have an ear to the ground, you have to have a way to dig in and get those insights.

Surveys are one great way to do it.

You also want to have more of a grassroots approach.

I have what I consider informants in each department of our company.

And that sounds very covert, but what it really is, I've identified people in those groups who are at all levels of the group because I interact with our senior leadership all the time.

I want to know what's going on at the lead level, what's going on at the technician level.

And so identifying those people who are key influencers and building that trust and that relationship with them to where you can just check in with them is so, so critical.

And now that I'm in my role, I've been empowering my team to do that more so that they can filter that up to me.

Because not everybody is cool with the HR director just coming over and saying, hey, how's your day going so far?

Or you look a little bummed today, what's going on?

Because it does scare them a little.

I think finding creative ways to really dig in and figure out how you're going to get a pulse on what's going on with your people.

I do regular supervisor check ins, my team does as well, where we just talk through those people issues and coach them.

And my goal is always that people don't know when I've had a hand in how something has been handled.

I don't want them to know that I had any involvement.

I want to empower our Leaders to handle those things on their own.

And then once you start to get that feedback, the things that are pain points for people, you start to tie that to the metrics that you're seeing.

How does that impact your turnover and retention in certain groups?

Is it tied to specific departments?

Is it tied to specific managers?

How much of that is healthy turnover?

Because let's be honest, we've heard from a lot of people.

When you have people that are not right.

I love the get shit done button.

I've had that on the whole time because that has been one of the biggest things.

If you have a problem, you gotta pick a date and you gotta make sure that you are getting them out to protect the people who really make your organization what it is.

And so I think once you have a better pulse on that and then you have the data to back it up and you have the engagement surveys that also are giving you some tangible numbers to tie to that you can really start to see, okay, how does the story that the data is telling, both the quantitative and qualitative data, align with the story that we're trying to tell with our strategic plan?

And when you can marry those things together as much as possible with your core values, I think that's when you really create something wonderful and when you can really prove that you have that return on investment because you're going to start seeing people who are actually aligning with your core values.

That's what everybody signs up for.

Not everybody knows exactly what their job is going to entail, but they should go out to your website and they should know what your core values are and you should be communicating those from day one.

That's that uniting factor behind it.

So think once you can tell that story effectively and make sure that it aligns with where you want to go, that's when you have the magic happen.

Yeah, Amen.

I mean, there's a well known concept.

As you move up the leadership into that arena, your EQ goes down.

Well, that doesn't necessarily have to be true.

You just have to make it a priority.

Absolutely.

And whether or not it's having informants or getting the feedback.

Don't use that word by the way, they hate that.

But it's true.

I mean, there has to be a way that you can connect level to level, generation to generation at your companies and firms don't need to be scared of that.

They need to embrace it.

And sometimes that can be a scary thought of what if they ask me about TikTok, like what?

What are these things that I can't connect with them on.

But you'd actually realize that you have a lot more common ground than you think.

I think the other important thing too is a lot of times companies, and especially because we are a little slow to adapt in the AEC industry, I will say we're getting better think that HR are supposed to be your culture enforcers.

But if that is the way that you are operating, you are behind the game.

You have to.

HR needs to be in an advisory role, your talent development, human resources, whatever.

In having your leaders that are actually working with those employees day in and day out, they have to be the culture advocates.

If it's only coming from top down, it's not gonna work.

Yeah, I think for us the way that we've kind of brought it all together is we've got a system.

So at the very top we have our csp.

That's our corporate strategic plan.

And in that is our long term and our short term vision.

Right below that we have our operational plans.

And then right below that we have what we call our wwpas, which stands for Win Performance Agreement.

We have one with every single person on our team.

So what is that?

The whole idea is we want to find out how the company can win because that's important.

We're running a business here, but also how the team member can win.

And that's an agreement between the two of us.

It's not something that is easy to do and quick.

It takes time.

And so that's where we invest that time.

We have the conversation.

That's where you need to be willing to remember that a person is more than just the side that you see at work.

I mean even just at this conference, I've talked to what sound like world class fly fishermen.

I've talked to people that make puppets.

I've talked to just humans are awesome.

Take the time to figure out what else is driving someone and see how you can turn that into a win for them.

And is there a way that you can turn that into a win for the firm?

Those skills don't always have to transfer, but you're going to find passion.

And high performance is voluntary.

So who in this room wants high performance at their firm?

It's going to be hard to force that.

How can you get them to be willing to volunteer that passion to where they see it as more than just grinding hours?

Because when you're tapped into that passion and they have found the win and it's in alignment with what wins for the firm at that point, the hours Just kind of melt away.

And it's no longer about that.

It's about focusing on the mission and the vision which like I said when I kind of started off, if you start with the top of that's what all this stuff aligns with, then you know that when that person is executing on their wwpa that Win Win Performance Agreement, it's in alignment with the whole firm.

You have everybody pulling in the same direction and that's an efficient way to do it.

It's an effective way to do it, which is really what we're after.

Yeah, I know one person at Zweigroup who has a Win Win Performance Agreement that's gonna be Chad Kleinhens.

We mash his passion for AEC and events with audio visual and it really enhances the whole thing.

If you haven't take a look around at the rafters, you can tell this guy stays up nights, he curates the playlist, he helps design the lighting show.

We can't get him to stop because it's a passion but it also enhances our business.

So why would we want to get it in his way?

I think that that example just came to mind.

We've got about 10 minutes left, maybe a few less than that.

But we do want to give the audience some opportunities.

So if we have a mic runner or two and we have some questions, we'd love to field those at this point.

Thank you.

Chris here from EHS Support.

I manage the Australian entity of our business and report back up to the llc.

So coming here, listening that maintaining company culture is quite important because Australia culture is a little bit different to over here.

But my question is maybe for Don and others, feel free to chime in if this situation matches yours.

And that is, I think you said maybe up to 60% of your workforce is either out in project sites by themselves or seconded into other companies.

How do you maintain your culture in that scenario?

So it's a great question and as I mentioned, it's a daily challenge that you have to work through.

We have a lot of reach out different programs that we have.

So we have different sets of leaders that are reaching out especially to all of our remote sites to make sure that those team members are part of it.

A information email or teams note is not going to that certainly can supplement but that face to face is communication is very important and it shows that you're carrier about what they're doing from that perspective.

So what I would just say is that it is.

You have to make sure that they feel part of the team.

And so we have what we call our annual business meeting.

So we bring in everybody and their spouses on a week for a weekend get together where we cover business and give out awards and those kind of things.

So that kind of helps culture, helps to continue the culture.

And they get that.

Some folks get to be able to talk face to face with the senior leadership in an informal setting.

From that perspective, we have quarterly town hall meetings that are done where we go to the specific area.

So we bring in those geographical team members together, and so they're able to talk with the senior leadership.

And we'll cover updates and things like that that's done on a quarterly basis.

And then just every week, our area managers that are the first lines or are the supervisors for those team members is that they're putting out a weekly report that covers both on and off work activities for that area's team members.

And so it's a lot of fun from it.

But also there's some good updates technically that come out of it and that kind of thing.

So you're just.

There's unlimited number of things I think you can do.

But it's gotta be very effective communication and frequent communication.

So hope that helps answer your question.

You guys have anything?

Not going to follow that act.

That's a great answer.

All right, any more questions?

Come on.

I know you guys got some.

Well, I'll throw something out there then.

We still got a few minutes.

And it's our stage.

One of the topics that we talked about as we prepared for this was the flexible versus work versus in office, remote work.

Where are you guys at on that journey?

Just a quick minute or two on.

That so I can lead off.

So on that.

When we went through that whole period, we did our best to stay in office.

That is probably one of the cornerstones of our culture, has been able to be together.

And so we do have flexibility because I think part of the culture is understanding that there is life like I talked about.

I mean, there's another side to this person.

And you just can't ignore that.

Not in our opinion.

And so being able to.

For example, I should have been at Texas Tech yesterday.

I made a mistake.

I double booked with this event and so for recruiting from the school.

And so basically we had a team that went in my place and it's like one to three years is their tenure.

But they killed it.

We kind of did a little practice beforehand.

And when like the way that they're selling the company, that in my opinion, I'm like, okay, this is good because their ability to communicate our culture for being at the firm for that little amount of time, I'm like, okay, this is a very good situation.

So that's an example of.

I mean, that's hard to get.

I think when we're separate, our ability to be together makes a big difference.

We come into the firm.

So for, like, Christmas, we all party together.

We come in.

It's an important deal.

For Halloween, we dress up.

I think I'm gonna be bluey this year.

Like, it's a big deal.

You gotta do stuff like that.

And for us, doing that in person is a big gift.

It's important.

Well, thanks for missing the kegger at Texas Tech for this.

I know, I know.

Right?

Where we're at with it is that I've got a draft of an updated policy sitting in my onenote right now.

So we're in the middle of trying to figure that out.

One of the things that Covid, I think, did was it pushed our industry to really explore what flexibility could look like.

And I remember when the conversation has shifted a lot over time.

At the beginning, it was, are people capable of doing their jobs remotely?

And employees were a resounding yes.

And a lot of times, leaders or senior management are resounding no.

There's no way we're going to be as productive or you're going to be able to do the same quality of work.

I think we have to realize that has.

We can put the mythbusters stamp on that one, that people can be productive at home.

In fact, some people are more productive at home.

People can do really good work from home.

The problem is that when you have a culture that is hybrid, like where we're at now, I think you heard Mike, those of you that were here yesterday, heard Mike mention that we allow people to work up to three days a week remotely, depending on their team.

The HR team, my group specifically, has one day that they can work remotely, and they never use it, very rarely.

So it's a little bit dependent on the group and the job type.

But what we're learning is that people can do their jobs, but when you aren't in the office and you're not as visible, it is so hard to get that mentorship.

So you might be doing your job, but it's much more task based.

You're not able to hear and learn through osmosis and get that sense of what is going on around you and how the work that you're doing impacts everybody else in your team.

And I think that there are companies that do it well.

But I think a lot of them are fully remote.

So that's the expectation is they have to learn how to overcome that communication gap and so they are being more intentional about it.

When you have a split like that, the people that are in office are going to get more and it's really hard to overcome that.

And so I think the conversation has to shift as we understand you're capable of doing your job from home.

And I think that's where flexibility comes in.

We are.

BHC has always been very flexible.

Covid allowed us to really explore that technology to make people more effective at being flexible.

So if you wake up and your dishwasher's overflowed and you're perfectly capable, you've got your laptop with you.

Sure.

Stay at home while the repairman comes.

But that's not the expectation.

We want you in the office more.

We used to have the best Halloween get togethers.

The HR team.

We came in last year.

We decorated part of the office too.

And we do a competition.

We do a chili and soup cook off.

It's a great time.

We dressed up as characters from Mario Kart.

It put Rainbow Road in the office.

It was a great morale builder.

It was a great team builder for us.

That cost very little.

Right.

And the whole company got to engage and enjoy it.

So yeah, I think we need to reframe the conversation to.

If you're wanting to move certain places in your.

In your career.

When you're looking at those career paths and you're looking at what's the next step that I want to take in order to elevate yourself and really become proficient in those different competencies, you're going to have to be present.

And that doesn't mean that you can't have the flexibility to work from home if you're not feeling well or if you've got a sick kid or you've got to take your dog to the to use your new pet insurance that you've got to go to the vet, those things can still happen.

But the expectation should be that if you can be in the office, we want you to want to be great.

Comment yesterday was butts in seats matters less than than head in the game.

And I think it's easier to have your head in the game when you're there where the team is practicing.

Yeah.

And for that type of policy, just real quick, we do so many things where the basic scientific process you come up with this idea or this concept, you test it, you measure it, you come up you change it.

That's really what we've mostly been doing for the last few years, and your employees can see that.

And even if you don't get it right, the fact that you're trying to move towards something that is a common ground or a good solution.

Exactly.

Is a really important part.

And if you're doing that process enough where you're testing, trying, adjusting things, go talk to cta.

Maybe you'll even get a tax credit out of it.

That really concludes our time.

I know we've got a short break coming up, so I'll just say thank you to our esteemed panelists.

If we can have a nice round of applause for them real quick.

Thanks for tuning in to the Zweiglutter podcast.

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