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(E29) The multigenerational workforce expert Tomi Ayodeji
Episode 29 • 28th October 2024 • Leaders with impact • Lee Griffith
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In today’s episode I’m talking with Tomi Ayodegi, an expert in supporting organisations to manage a multigenerational workforce.

We talk about how with a widening age range of staff in the workplace, organisations are needing to look again at recruitment and retention, diversity and inclusion, communications practices. In fact there isn’t an area of the wrokplace that won’t be impacted by this.


About Tomi

Tomi Ayodeji is an multi-generational workforce coach with over 15 years of experience in the finance, non-profit, and IT sectors. Specialising in helping senior leaders and middle managers engage and retain age-diverse talent, Tomi’s expertise lies in fostering inclusive environments that bridge generational gaps. With a deep understanding of the dynamic values and behaviours across different age groups, Tomi offers tailored solutions to help organisations build cohesive, productive teams. Passionate about driving change, Tomi empowers leaders to create workplaces where all generations can thrive, ensuring sustainable growth and reduced attrition rates across the workforce.

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About leaders with impact

Want to know the secret of great leaders? In Leaders with impact we'll be exploring what makes an impactful leader; sharing stories of success and strategies that set them apart.

If you are ambitious for your organisation but are struggling to identify what you can do differently as a leader to deliver the right improvements, then hit subscribe to learn how you can get clear on your strategy, implement some self-leadership and connect with those you serve.

New episodes are released every fortnight.

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Transcripts

Lee Griffith:

Lee. I'm Lee Griffith, a former

Lee Griffith:

communications director who now coaches leaders to shrug off the

Lee Griffith:

stereotypes and find their own way of leading with impact on

Lee Griffith:

the leaders with impact podcast, I talk with real leaders about

Lee Griffith:

what shaped their approach. I chat with experts who challenge

Lee Griffith:

your thinking, and I share my own strategies for success. If

Lee Griffith:

you enjoy this podcast and want to shake things up with your

Lee Griffith:

leadership development, then why not recommend me to work for

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your organization? Visit sundayskies.com or drop an email

Lee Griffith:

to lwi@sundayskies.com In today's episode, I'm talking

Lee Griffith:

with Tomi ayodaiji, an expert in supporting organizations to

Lee Griffith:

manage a multi generational workforce, we talk about how

Lee Griffith:

with a widening age range of staff in the workplace,

Lee Griffith:

organizations are needing to look again at things like

Lee Griffith:

recruitment and retention, diversity and inclusion,

Lee Griffith:

communications practices. In fact, there isn't an area of the

Lee Griffith:

workplace that isn't impacted by this issue. I hope you enjoy.

Lee Griffith:

You I'm delighted to welcome Tomi ayodoji to the leaders of

Lee Griffith:

impact podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Unknown:

Thank you for having me, Lee.

Lee Griffith:

We are going to be talking about multi generational

Lee Griffith:

workforces. This is something that you help organizations

Lee Griffith:

with, and I suppose the best starting point for our

Lee Griffith:

conversation is probably to explain what we mean when we're

Lee Griffith:

talking about multi generational because I'm sure some people

Lee Griffith:

will go, Well, isn't that just everyone that works at an

Lee Griffith:

organization?

Unknown:

That's true, and it's interesting that you said so,

Unknown:

because I was talking to a friend this week and I just

Unknown:

said, oh, you know, there are five generations in the

Unknown:

workforce. And we're like, Well, what do you mean? There are five

Unknown:

generations in the workforce? And I thought, hmm, maybe not

Unknown:

everyone is aware. Yeah. So I was probably start with that,

Unknown:

yeah, the fact that in today's workforce, particularly, I think

Unknown:

public sector organizations might have at least a minimum of

Unknown:

five generations in the workforce. So we're talking from

Unknown:

employees in their 80s to 2725 ish, right? And if, if a

Unknown:

graduate comes in on an apprenticeship, even younger,

Unknown:

right? So you've got all that in one organization, and you want

Unknown:

people to communicate in the same way, yeah, learn the same

Unknown:

way, work, the same way as you you've always worked, you know?

Unknown:

And I think the advent of technology is accelerating the

Unknown:

rate of change within the workplace, and so, yes,

Unknown:

generations have always been, you know, in an organization,

Unknown:

you've always had multi generation. But I guess the

Unknown:

unique thing is the advent of technology, and what that the

Unknown:

values and motivations of the younger cohort, right? What

Unknown:

technology does to their way of working, what they think work

Unknown:

is, what the future work is, and the difference in values there

Unknown:

is one. The second part of that is that we do have an aging

Unknown:

workforce. And you have people staying longer in the workforce

Unknown:

for various reasons or reentering, you know, 50 plus

Unknown:

reentrying as well. So and people coming back with cost of

Unknown:

living crisis, you know, coming back into the workplace, even if

Unknown:

it's an interim rule. So you have all of us here, the younger

Unknown:

generation, who do not stay in the workplace for more than two

Unknown:

three years, and then they turn around and move elsewhere. And

Unknown:

then you have an older workforce who are feeling like they're

Unknown:

being passed over for promotion. I hear that now you you're

Unknown:

considered old as a woman, 40 plus in the workplace. What does

Unknown:

that mean for everyone working there? These are some of the

Unknown:

challenges that exist. And next year, 2025 the World Economic

Unknown:

Forum predicts that 30% of the global workforce would be

Unknown:

predominantly Gen Z. So those are those born 1997 to 2012 so

Unknown:

we're talking Well, the oldest will be 27 youngest. Who are we

Unknown:

now? 2024? To 12, right? Yeah, yeah. So the workforce will be

Unknown:

30. About 27% global workforce is Gen Z, do. 50 plus will be

Unknown:

about 33% right and in the same workplace. What does that mean,

Unknown:

particularly as the younger generations aren't sticking what

Unknown:

impact does that have? We have a high rate of attrition with that

Unknown:

young workforce, and we're losing knowledge when you don't

Unknown:

keep the older workforce in the young force. Younger ones aren't

Unknown:

staying to learn as well from the older ones. So it's that

Unknown:

there's a whole different dynamic of things happening in

Unknown:

one melting point, and most of us do come from families that

Unknown:

are multi generational, and we know some of the hiccups that

Unknown:

happen, yeah, when they're huge family get togethers, you know,

Unknown:

and how that can be, but the difference is, work isn't

Unknown:

family, you know, we have to find a way to make it work,

Lee Griffith:

yeah, wow, right. Okay, so there's a lot here that

Lee Griffith:

we're gonna be going deeper in. I'm I'm sure, just so that I'm

Lee Griffith:

clear from when we talk about generations, are we? Are we?

Lee Griffith:

Just meaning it in the way that you've just described, like Gen

Lee Griffith:

Z, for example, it's like the description or the explanation

Lee Griffith:

that they use nationally around the boomer generation. Or is it,

Lee Griffith:

or do we look at it from a decade point of view? Because it

Lee Griffith:

seems I always find it personally finding weird that

Lee Griffith:

the randomness of the years that you

Unknown:

get random, right? It is quite random. But when I look

Unknown:

at it, I look at it for ease of understanding, the era the

Unknown:

individual was born in, right? So you have your baby boomers,

Unknown:

1946 to 62 and you think what was happening then, yeah, how

Unknown:

did that shape their ethics? How did that shape their concept of

Unknown:

work? How did that shape their values? How do they achieve

Unknown:

their view of the environment around them, etc. So you've got

Unknown:

Baby Boomers, like you've just said, we have Generation X,

Unknown:

Millennials, Generation Z, and then we have alpha coming up

Unknown:

soon after, after that. So some some workplaces might have six

Unknown:

generations for all we know. So I refer to it. I use those terms

Unknown:

because there is some research around that, so that's easier

Unknown:

for me to use, yeah, but I also like, I think one piece that is

Unknown:

often overlooked, and what I find that I like to look at it

Unknown:

at generations, not just in terms of a but also in terms of

Unknown:

longevity in the workplace. So, you know, you could have someone

Unknown:

that is much younger, but they've been in that

Unknown:

organization for 10 years, yeah, and they have knowledge that

Unknown:

someone who's much older, but only has been there for a couple

Unknown:

of years, you know, has and how do we transfer knowledge across

Unknown:

with that, hindering people based on how long they've been

Unknown:

there, how old they are, where we perceive them to have been in

Unknown:

their career stage or season of life, you know, when we think

Unknown:

they are deemed ready for promotion, etc, all this sort of

Unknown:

thing. So does that answer your point?

Lee Griffith:

It does, yeah, yeah. And I was also interested

Lee Griffith:

in you said that it seems to be something particularly the

Lee Griffith:

public sector, are experiencing in terms of having that whole

Lee Griffith:

breadth of generations. Why do you think that that is as

Lee Griffith:

opposed to other sectors?

Unknown:

I think generally, people just tend to stay longer

Unknown:

in the public sector. As someone that's worked in the public

Unknown:

sector as well, the pension is very good. Yes,

Lee Griffith:

true.

Unknown:

That is one clue, you know. And I know from that

Unknown:

experience, I know people who may have wanted to leave the

Unknown:

workplace or haven't left because they they really like

Unknown:

the pension. It may not be the case now for younger generation,

Unknown:

but an older generation, yeah, certainly the pension is, is a

Unknown:

factor in why people stay there is a perception that maybe the

Unknown:

public sector is not quite as vicious as the private sector.

Unknown:

So people tend to stay and they can get the work done. There's

Unknown:

also that what brings people to public sector, I like to think,

Unknown:

is that they want to be a part of change, actually, and not

Unknown:

really thinking about capitalism in that sense, but just want to

Unknown:

be a part of something that's bigger than them, and that's

Unknown:

what draws people to the public sector. And people do tend to

Unknown:

stay long in those spaces because they really feel that

Unknown:

they are part the contributor. Change in that regard. So those

Unknown:

are some of the factors that cause that they are. They're

Unknown:

also good programs for graduates to come into them. They're also

Unknown:

the largest employee, employer, sorry, in the UK as well, you

Unknown:

know? So it's the breadth of that, yeah, yeah. So How

Lee Griffith:

seriously do perhaps other organizations who

Lee Griffith:

aren't in public sector, perhaps don't have the same ethos or

Lee Griffith:

values or approach, how seriously should they be taking

Lee Griffith:

the whole construct of developing and building a multi

Lee Griffith:

generational workforce? Do

Unknown:

that's an interesting question, and I think it really

Unknown:

depends on what the data they're tracking tells them. So if an

Unknown:

organization is tracking age, for instance, of their

Unknown:

employees, and looking at attrition and trying to find out

Unknown:

if there's a correlation there. I would say that's where they

Unknown:

would start to see if there is an issue. How long are your

Unknown:

young workers staying for? Yeah, if they're leaving every 18

Unknown:

months and you're having this constant turnaround open door,

Unknown:

and then your managers have the challenge of not being motivated

Unknown:

to mentor every new cohort that comes through, because they're

Unknown:

only going to be there, you know, 18 months, and then

Unknown:

they're starting again. So they just, you know, they're not as

Unknown:

invested as well. So it's really engaging with your middle

Unknown:

managers who I think are bearing the brunt of it to find out, and

Unknown:

that's the sort of work that I like to do, is working with

Unknown:

those middle managers who are bearing the brunt of it, but

Unknown:

also engaging with them and trying to find out from them,

Unknown:

what are their pain points when working with the new generation

Unknown:

of workers, bearing in mind that a lot of them graduated after or

Unknown:

during the pandemic, soft skills are a huge issue, a huge pain

Unknown:

point, because you've been working from home. That was your

Unknown:

introduction to your first job, right? So those are skills that

Unknown:

come from learning how to manage conflict with others in the

Unknown:

team. The kind of mentoring that happens, just happens by the

Unknown:

water cooler, conversations, just sitting next to someone,

Unknown:

all those sorts of things are missing. So they're very skilled

Unknown:

technologically. And I'm being stereotypical here, yeah, but so

Unknown:

you've got these great skills using the computer software, AI

Unknown:

and all that, you know, working online, but then interpersonal

Unknown:

relationships a bit lacking and and that may be where it shows

Unknown:

up in all organizations, not just the private sector. I think

Unknown:

the rate of attrition is one to watch out for. If employees are

Unknown:

leaving, I might be curious about why. Yeah, I might be

Unknown:

curious about why. Now it might not be quite a huge issue right

Unknown:

now for some organizations or so, although some are

Unknown:

experiencing it, but within the next five to 10 years, as that

Unknown:

younger cohort start to become the larger group in the

Unknown:

workplace, some of them are already in some form of team

Unknown:

Leadership, already, it will be interesting to see how

Unknown:

organizations shape. I'm assuming, though, the flip

Lee Griffith:

side can also be true. If people you know, look

Lee Griffith:

at their the makeup of their workforce, and they find people

Lee Griffith:

are staying too long and they're too set in their ways and

Lee Griffith:

perhaps embracing change that need. And so yeah, there's a

Lee Griffith:

balance I'm assuming that organizations will need to get

Lee Griffith:

both in terms of the shape of the workforce and then the look

Lee Griffith:

of the workforce and the age and all of the different dynamics,

Lee Griffith:

because they'll have a place that they're trying to get to as

Lee Griffith:

an organization, and they need the right people around for

Lee Griffith:

that,

Unknown:

yeah, and I think that's a very interesting point,

Unknown:

the the fact that, you know, change, right? That's that's

Unknown:

constant. You always have new graduates coming into the

Unknown:

workplace, right? That's constant. I think some of the

Unknown:

differences we're seeing with a yield, and we saw it first with

Unknown:

millennials, right, coming into the workplace, pushing and

Unknown:

trying to change the value. System within organizations. And

Unknown:

for instance, I remember being in the networking, meeting once

Unknown:

with a senior partner in a law firm. Now, for her, her struggle

Unknown:

was when she started her career in the late 80s. She was on the

Unknown:

phone 24/7 available to her employer. You know? Well, maybe

Unknown:

not 24/7 that's an exaggeration, but you know what I mean, yeah,

Unknown:

after hours, yeah, after nine, always available. She was

Unknown:

available. When she went on holiday, she was available,

Unknown:

right? And she cannot understand the junior lawyers coming into

Unknown:

her practice, going on holiday and not being available, having

Unknown:

boundaries,

Lee Griffith:

having boundaries,

Unknown:

and and, you know, and part of me, and I'm thinking,

Unknown:

Okay, we're of the same generation, but I think, you

Unknown:

know, people are allowed to have a holiday, yeah,

Unknown:

you know, there was that part of me that that got that bit of the

Unknown:

boundaries, but there was a part of me that got that bit that,

Unknown:

yes, when we started work, or when I started work, you just

Unknown:

did what had to be done, and you didn't ask any questions, you

Unknown:

didn't challenge the system. We have a younger generation

Unknown:

challenging the system, right? And part of that challenge is,

Unknown:

is, the fact is, what is causing the attrition? In the sense that

Unknown:

if, in two, three years, I'm not going to wait 10 years for you

Unknown:

to give me what I think I deserve right now, hence why we

Unknown:

call that, some of them the entitled generation, right? But

Unknown:

it's the idea that life is too short. I don't want to wait 10

Unknown:

years before you recognize me. Now, an organization can respond

Unknown:

and say, No, you wait as long as I waited. Right? Leaders could

Unknown:

respond that way. We say, okay, how can we engage them now so

Unknown:

they do feel a part of what's happening here, we can retain

Unknown:

them. They want to be a contribute. They want to

Unknown:

contribute to what's happening. They want to be part of the

Unknown:

change, and they want to attribute their position to that

Unknown:

change, right? Not, not their line manager, not someone that's

Unknown:

you know. So how can we change the world of work to involve

Unknown:

them in more stuff at the get go, rather than saying, Wait

Unknown:

your turn? Right? So there are different things, but like that,

Unknown:

yeah, they're worth exploring. So,

Lee Griffith:

so what's going through my mind as you're you're

Lee Griffith:

talking is there? So I look, I'm looking at it through the lens

Lee Griffith:

of a younger workforce and the wants and needs and desires that

Lee Griffith:

they have, yeah, which could be the polar opposite of the

Lee Griffith:

workforce, or the desires of an older people who work in my

Lee Griffith:

organization, yeah, and who's to say which is right? Because I'm

Lee Griffith:

so I'm assuming the challenge from a leadership perspective

Lee Griffith:

is, how do you harmonize and balance the two wants and needs?

Lee Griffith:

Because you can't completely go everything you've ever you know,

Lee Griffith:

you've worked for 50 years, everything you've ever known is

Lee Griffith:

pointless and worthless, yeah, and but neither can you say

Lee Griffith:

actually, you don't you're talking about because you're

Lee Griffith:

just new to it. So there's a real juggling, balancing act.

Lee Griffith:

I'm assuming leaders are having to go through, yeah,

Unknown:

that's, that's absolutely true, and why, I

Unknown:

think now is a good time to start looking at it, or leaders

Unknown:

to start paying attention to what's happening in percolating

Unknown:

under the surface. You know, in some organizations, it might be

Unknown:

a lot more glaring, but I think it's a challenge. And the

Unknown:

reality is Baby Boomers are leading, and they are the senior

Unknown:

leaders generally on this is a startup. They are leading. They

Unknown:

make the rules. They are telling us what to do, right? They will

Unknown:

the power, right? There's no getting away from that. That's

Unknown:

the reality. Whether or not a younger generation can wield

Unknown:

more power remains to be seen. Whether, you know, in the late I

Unknown:

think it was the late 90s, we had, like, the internet boom,

Unknown:

right? Where everyone was going into it and and learning all

Unknown:

sorts of tech jobs and roles, right? And we had this huge

Unknown:

boom. And then I think about 10 years later, we had the bust,

Unknown:

right? So it's you. The world of remote, remote working here to

Unknown:

stay, is there going to be a boom and then a bust? How much

Unknown:

power does that give a younger cohort, you know? So it's

Unknown:

thinking it through is actually, I think it's about relinquishing

Unknown:

some of the power to say, what are your needs? And you touched

Unknown:

on that a bit when you said a younger generation will have

Unknown:

certain sets of needs that will be different from an older

Unknown:

generation. So what are quick wins that people could have look

Unknown:

at your benefit system. Does a 25 year old or 22 year old need

Unknown:

childcare benefit? Do they want it? Do they need parental need?

Unknown:

No. So if you're listing if all your benefits only favor a

Unknown:

certain demographic of people within your organization, and

Unknown:

they don't have some of the things like which they cherish,

Unknown:

like personal development. If you say, No, you're not eligible

Unknown:

for that until x x number of years in the organization, then,

Unknown:

and you see more organizations are changing that. You know, you

Unknown:

have a certain amount that would go towards personal development,

Unknown:

because that is something that a younger cohort want. They want

Unknown:

to quickly advance. They don't want to wait those 10 years,

Unknown:

right? Similarly, if you have someone over 50, Flexi working

Unknown:

is probably quite important to them, or a parent, maybe in

Unknown:

their 40s as well, or even late 30s, who knows, but it's really

Unknown:

engaging with your employers to say, okay, rather than we say,

Unknown:

these are all our benefits? Could we have Flexi benefits for

Unknown:

people to choose what they desire, what works for them,

Unknown:

what works in their world? Is that something that could

Unknown:

happen, right? What are we willing to let go of? And, you

Unknown:

know, I'm being a bit I'm simplifying things a bit, yeah,

Unknown:

yeah, to make it clear, right? Because sometimes it can, it can

Unknown:

be complex, and sometimes maybe it is just do as I say, Right?

Unknown:

Which is what we're seeing now with a huge tech company who's

Unknown:

just asked their employees to return to work in January,

Unknown:

right? What's that going What's that really going to do? It

Unknown:

remains to be seen. Will people rebel and really go and look for

Unknown:

remote work, or will there be other people too willing to take

Unknown:

their place and come into the office? Yeah, everyone's doing

Unknown:

the balancing act, not just leaders, you know, and so it, I

Unknown:

think the future of work is one that's going to be interesting.

Lee Griffith:

So we've, we've talked a lot about, I suppose,

Lee Griffith:

the younger generation coming through. And I obviously a lot

Lee Griffith:

of organizations need to think future proof in their

Lee Griffith:

organization, and as you say, the size of that group is going

Lee Griffith:

to be significant in the next few years. But what are some of

Lee Griffith:

the challenges, perhaps, from an older workforce you mentioned at

Lee Griffith:

the very beginning, some of the things like they're being

Lee Griffith:

overlooked for positions, perhaps or maybe just not as

Lee Griffith:

valued as much for for what they might bring in, yeah, in certain

Lee Griffith:

organizations, if, because of stereotypes, you assume they're

Lee Griffith:

not so great with technology or whatever. So, yeah, what are the

Lee Griffith:

challenges that leaders need to be looking at?

Unknown:

I think it's the same thing. If you look at, first of

Unknown:

all, you don't want to break any laws, right? Firstly, we must

Unknown:

point out that there is a law that protects people based on

Unknown:

their age, and it's not just the older generation, but they tend

Unknown:

to have it the worst workplace, right? In terms of stereotypes,

Unknown:

you're overlooked and if, if some of the stuff we're seeing

Unknown:

in the press is true, that even at 40, you're starting, people

Unknown:

are starting to look at you as being past it, that is an issue,

Unknown:

because, um, people love to learn, right? And people are

Unknown:

capable of learning. And it's the stereotype to say, because

Unknown:

someone is at a certain age, they're all willing to to learn

Unknown:

nothing, there's no one to say that the oldest person in an

Unknown:

organization isn't going to be the AI champion in the

Unknown:

organization. What? And I think, as you we kind of started

Unknown:

talking about that previously. It's. Dual responsibility.

Unknown:

There's responsibility for leaders and there's

Unknown:

responsibility for employees as usual. Anyway. So if I were a 50

Unknown:

plus employee, I'm thinking like you would in any career chain,

Unknown:

how do I remain relevant? Right? What skills do I need? And in

Unknown:

any era, anybody who is unwilling to change gets left

Unknown:

behind. Yeah, that's the reality of the world of work, right? So

Unknown:

that's not going to change, but if an organization does not

Unknown:

preclude certain opportunities from their older workforce, then

Unknown:

I think everything's right. It will be okay. But if you make up

Unknown:

your mind that a certain gym is ex, how old and no, we won't

Unknown:

sign him up. We won't suggest retraining. We won't suggest

Unknown:

this workshop, right, and things like that, not to say that some

Unknown:

people do decline. That's fair. That's their choice, but the

Unknown:

opportunity should be there. Yeah, yeah. And like, we say,

Unknown:

like I said, there is an aging workforce. We can't get away

Unknown:

from that. And people don't want to stop working. No, no. People

Unknown:

don't want to. And I don't think the solutions to kick them out

Unknown:

either. Well, it's, it's scary.

Lee Griffith:

You You saying kind of 40 plus is, is that cut

Lee Griffith:

off for being old in the workplace. I mean, personally,

Lee Griffith:

if that's offensive, because yeah, but also Yeah, I think

Lee Griffith:

like, you've potentially still got another 40 years to be

Lee Griffith:

working. People are working into their 80s. Yeah, that's that's a

Lee Griffith:

long time to be, feel felt, feel like you're being left on the

Lee Griffith:

shelf and not being developed. So that must I'm wondering, as

Lee Griffith:

we're talking that we, if organizations are focusing on

Lee Griffith:

the younger workforce, and I suppose the extremes of the

Lee Griffith:

young and the old, we've got this huge, expansive middle.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, that's that that is getting ignored in this.

Unknown:

It is, it is true. And I think you're right about that,

Unknown:

definitely. And I think obviously, when I was thinking

Unknown:

about this podcast today, I was thinking, oh gosh, the in

Unknown:

betweeners. Yeah, what's going what's happening? Who's with our

Unknown:

people ignoring them so now, so that that cohort is likely to be

Unknown:

where your middle managers are right. So I think to an extent,

Unknown:

they are ignored in terms of maybe they do not present that

Unknown:

much of an issue to organizations, but then they are

Unknown:

the ones expected to facilitate the change that these issues

Unknown:

bring up. Yeah, right. So how are we equipping them, how are

Unknown:

we preparing them, how are we making them aware of these

Unknown:

challenges, and maybe having a generational lens on their

Unknown:

performance management, on their leadership, could help and

Unknown:

support them through it. Because I find that there's a lot now

Unknown:

that middle managers have to do, yeah, yeah, and there's a lot of

Unknown:

expectation. And again, those are some of the changes they

Unknown:

talk about, the Gen Z generation, who expect their

Unknown:

managers, not just to line management, but to mentor them

Unknown:

as well. And you could be sitting there thinking, heck, I

Unknown:

didn't sign up for that. I just need to get the job done, you

Unknown:

know. And there's so much more as well. You You have to be a

Unknown:

well being expert as well. You know, dei expect as well. And so

Unknown:

there's so much that responsibility that comes with

Unknown:

management and leadership now. So how are we supporting them?

Unknown:

And what might this whole generational piece bring to that

Unknown:

as well? And it's, it's

Lee Griffith:

interesting, because we are talking in terms

Lee Griffith:

of the organizational view, and that there will be, maybe

Lee Griffith:

policies and procedures and stuff that organizations put in

Lee Griffith:

place to make sure that they are inclusive in the way that

Lee Griffith:

they're dealing with people and that they're trying to provide

Lee Griffith:

fair opportunities, or whatever, maybe it's there they be helping

Lee Griffith:

to adapt working patterns or even just environmental stuff

Lee Griffith:

that needs to happen, because people might prefer different

Lee Griffith:

ways of working. Yeah. Yeah, but you can have all of those things

Lee Griffith:

in the world, policies and procedures in place, but if

Lee Griffith:

individuals aren't adapting or embracing the potential, then

Lee Griffith:

organization that you're a bit screwed on you. What can

Lee Griffith:

organizations or if you look at it from a board level, what

Lee Griffith:

should they be doing, both in an exercise of self reflection and

Lee Griffith:

how they're leading as a board, but also that individual

Lee Griffith:

responsibility that they need to be taking?

Unknown:

I think this might be where culture comes in, right?

Unknown:

And leaders actually, if, if at board level, you recognize that

Unknown:

this is an issue. So the next question would be to ask, okay,

Unknown:

so what sort of culture do we have to have to foster this sort

Unknown:

of environment. What sort of leaders do we have to have in

Unknown:

place? What sort of competencies do they have to have, right? So

Unknown:

I'll give you a practical example when I part my past is a

Unknown:

project management rule, and so I hired a team of young people,

Unknown:

and they were quite young, probably the youngest team I've

Unknown:

worked with, and brought them into an office space with the

Unknown:

existing team, who Were probably a generation, not older.

Unknown:

Generally, across board, I crossborne. The first thing that

Unknown:

was noticeable is how the young people dressed work. And also

Unknown:

what they did was they were at work at desk base. So I'll be

Unknown:

honest, I had people painting their nails at their desk. I had

Unknown:

people with snoozies, shoes off, sitting in a yoga position on

Unknown:

chairs. I had people openly booking a trip away the office

Unknown:

floor. Now I laugh. I found it very funny, you know, but I just

Unknown:

thought, Gosh, how times have changed, because this is so

Unknown:

unprofessional, unprofessional. Now, I could have led with how

Unknown:

unprofessional and brought out the riot sack, you know. But

Unknown:

what I found is there's a knowledge gap. So that was more,

Unknown:

more of a burden on me to have one to one with individual to

Unknown:

talk about how some of the stuff that we're doing were affecting

Unknown:

the wider team, right? How they might have not meant for that to

Unknown:

happen, but that's what's happening. So whether it was the

Unknown:

way they were dressed or, you know, the way they answered the

Unknown:

phone or signed off an email, whatever it is, you know that it

Unknown:

took more time to address that with them. So the responsibility

Unknown:

is on leadership and but it's on. We mustn't. I think

Unknown:

sometimes we can veer a bit to the other side in terms,

Unknown:

especially when it comes to the younger generation thinking

Unknown:

they're not willing to learn best practice for whatever

Unknown:

setting you're in. Right? It's a different conversation whether

Unknown:

what we call best practice needs to remain the way it is. Right?

Unknown:

That's a separate conversation. And if, and if a leader wants to

Unknown:

engage their their employees in that conversation, all the more

Unknown:

the better, right? And we've always done things this way is,

Unknown:

you know, we've always done things this way, and generations

Unknown:

have already done this way, but could we change that slightly?

Unknown:

Right? And you can shift a bit that's that's a different

Unknown:

conversation. But I took this dual responsibility. Is real

Unknown:

and, and, and I think sometimes the press doesn't help with the

Unknown:

stereotypes, giving you the impression that certain

Unknown:

generations do not want to learn. Everyone is teachable.

Unknown:

Everybody's willing to learn. What leaders need to work work

Unknown:

on really and focusing is really whether the organization has the

Unknown:

values that support a multi generational workforce. That's

Unknown:

the key, because then it cascades now, and I suppose

Lee Griffith:

we can jump to conclusions that some of these

Lee Griffith:

things that we are experiencing in an organization is due to a

Lee Griffith:

multi generational nature. Because I'm just thinking back

Lee Griffith:

to when I was working in corporate, and some of the

Lee Griffith:

things that you described that you experienced with your

Lee Griffith:

younger team members. Yeah, I had the flip. I was leading a

Lee Griffith:

team where I was the youngest and people were significantly

Lee Griffith:

older. Glad you brought that up. But they, you know, they had, it

Lee Griffith:

wasn't so, you know, I had the same some of them would be on,

Lee Griffith:

they'd be doing their personal shopping. Yeah, online. I've had

Lee Griffith:

to someone else in an office fall asleep, and they just next

Lee Griffith:

to me and and so I wonder whether that is not necessarily,

Lee Griffith:

and I've had this with people who perhaps they don't see the

Lee Griffith:

job as a profession. They see it as a job to make money because

Lee Griffith:

they got, you know, the most important thing for them is

Lee Griffith:

outside of work. So sometimes it's not necessarily an age

Lee Griffith:

thing. It goes back to the point you've made about values and the

Lee Griffith:

value, why they're showing up and doing what they're doing,

Lee Griffith:

and how committed they are, yeah, delivering the best. Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

and perhaps we shouldn't all jump to assume it's because

Lee Griffith:

they're young or because they're old, yeah, just be it's their

Lee Griffith:

attitude. Because this isn't this, this job doesn't mean the

Lee Griffith:

same to them.

Unknown:

Yeah, you're quite right that I like that example

Unknown:

of you being the younger manager, because that's another

Unknown:

thing that's happening as well. And how, if I can, I ask you how

Unknown:

you felt when you were doing that

Lee Griffith:

and leading. I mean, it was hard because I

Lee Griffith:

didn't necessarily have the training or the support. There

Lee Griffith:

is an assumption, and I've got a public sector background similar

Lee Griffith:

to you, and there was an assumption when you get

Lee Griffith:

recruited into management roles that you just know how to do it,

Lee Griffith:

and they don't prepare you for the actual stuff that you need

Lee Griffith:

to do with people. So that was challenging. I think the work

Lee Griffith:

ethic thing i i struggled with in some ways, because I was a,

Lee Griffith:

you know, get everything done. I'd work all hours, and didn't

Lee Griffith:

really understand, but that that's more a personality thing,

Lee Griffith:

I realized in hindsight, than a, than a, maybe a generational

Lee Griffith:

thing. Yeah,

Unknown:

that's interesting. So I guess that's, that's the, one

Unknown:

of the questions like to get asked is, what's really

Unknown:

different than, you know, like when we said at the start,

Unknown:

they're always multi generational workplace, right?

Unknown:

They are, and a younger generation have always

Unknown:

challenged the status quo, right? So that's always

Unknown:

happened. I think technology is the difference, right for this

Unknown:

younger generation, and what people are seeing on social

Unknown:

media, what is being sold as the ideal work life versus the

Unknown:

reality. So even though we say they really is in any different

Unknown:

but the advent of AI, social media, the generation that we

Unknown:

call native. What do you call them? Well, technology now my my

Unknown:

foggy brain is taking over.

Lee Griffith:

I've got no idea what they

Unknown:

call technology natives, let's put it that way.

Unknown:

It's like you grew up. You grew up with the Internet. You grew

Unknown:

up with, you know, social media, that is your norm. You grew up

Unknown:

with fast news. You don't have to wait for anything. Now it

Unknown:

affects sometimes that values and assumptions in the

Unknown:

workplace. A simple one is, let's take email, yeah, email

Unknown:

for a certain generation, two to three days to respond might not

Unknown:

be a bad thing. It's okay. It's professional. You might even put

Unknown:

it in your signature that you aim to respond within, yeah, 48

Unknown:

to 70 or two hours, depending on your industry. Right now, for a

Unknown:

younger generation, it should be instant. Why haven't you replied

Unknown:

to my email? Yeah, yeah, you know. And what's the impact of

Unknown:

that with communication in the workplace? Yeah, and conflict.

Unknown:

How does that pan out in reality? So it's going a bit be

Unknown:

beyond below the surface to say, Okay, what is this about this

Unknown:

present generation or that generation, or the generation in

Unknown:

the world? Workplace that might be contributing to maybe

Unknown:

conflict challenges with communication, team building,

Unknown:

working in the team, when some teams had to go online during

Unknown:

the pandemic, there was different reactions, right? What

Unknown:

we have learned since that is that everybody, most people,

Unknown:

liked working from home or adapted. Some people put up a

Unknown:

first start with I would never have thought of working from

Unknown:

home. I know certain leaders who were totally against their staff

Unknown:

working from home before the pandemic, and suddenly the

Unknown:

pandemic, you're forced to do that, and that's opened up a

Unknown:

different way of working for some organizations, some are

Unknown:

still having challenges with a hybrid and wanting to go back to

Unknown:

the Yeah, but Then, could we re imagine another way of being. So

Unknown:

I guess it's an intersection. The communication

Lee Griffith:

element is a really interesting one to me.

Lee Griffith:

That's my background. So I always find that quite

Lee Griffith:

interesting. And It's the simple things around the formality of

Lee Griffith:

communication and how that changes through generations.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, fact that, you know, I don't mind an emoji in a in a

Lee Griffith:

message to someone, I'll even put it in an email every now and

Lee Griffith:

then, but I could imagine that certain people would be really

Lee Griffith:

offended if I was to do that. I know, working in the health

Lee Griffith:

service, there are certain people who are really into

Lee Griffith:

hierarchical structures and performs of address and all of

Lee Griffith:

that. Yeah, others that. And I have to say, I was bit of a

Lee Griffith:

rebel in this. I refuse to use people call them doctor or

Lee Griffith:

whatever, because I just like, No, you we're all equal. But

Lee Griffith:

that would be, you know that was the challenges that you face. So

Lee Griffith:

I can imagine the the conflicts that that probably does cause in

Lee Griffith:

terms of team building and understanding far less that even

Lee Griffith:

just abbreviations that people use, yes, can be really hard to

Lee Griffith:

understand, and

Unknown:

that that issue about equality, I think is, is really

Unknown:

important to a young this younger generation. And I know

Unknown:

we talk, we're talking about them a lot, but it's really

Unknown:

about what their views and their values, the changes that what

Unknown:

it's bringing into the workforce is, I guess, um, what interests

Unknown:

me, and then where See, my role is bridging the generational gap

Unknown:

between, okay, they've come in and you're here. How do we get

Unknown:

along? How do we communicate? How do we retain them? More

Unknown:

importantly, and that's where the cost is. How do we retain

Unknown:

retain them? Not just about attracting them, but how do we

Unknown:

Yeah, how do we retain them so they are a part of workforce, so

Unknown:

they can learn from the older generation in your organization,

Unknown:

you know, as well. But sorry, what was the question you that

Unknown:

led to this? We were talking about communication. Oh,

Lee Griffith:

I think I was just saying, it's an interesting so

Lee Griffith:

what for equity? Yeah, yeah,

Unknown:

the idea of equity. So you do have some young people in

Unknown:

the workplace who feel that because we're all equal, that

Unknown:

should give me access to the CEO straight away. Why? Why do, why

Unknown:

can't I talk to him or her? What? Why don't I have access?

Unknown:

Why do I have to go through, yeah, the ranks to speak

Unknown:

directly. I mean, some, some, some organizations are starting

Unknown:

to change that. Yeah, so you will, you can have a CEO who

Unknown:

say, Look, my office is open these hours book some time with

Unknown:

anyone in the organization. 15 minutes of my time. You can have

Unknown:

a chat. And those are simple intergenerational practices that

Unknown:

don't cost a lot, but shift the mind of people and changes the

Unknown:

culture yeah in an organization so it it's just yeah, thinking

Unknown:

through what the impact of having Maybe now we call it

Unknown:

generational gaps, but maybe when things settle a bit, we're

Unknown:

just talking about, look, we've got and here we're talking

Unknown:

about, how are we onboarding this new generation in the

Unknown:

workplace? We were going to be dominating it very soon. Yeah.

Unknown:

And how, how are we preparing them as well for the world of

Unknown:

work at some point? Like the older generation are going to

Unknown:

stop working and they're going to move up. And are they ready?

Unknown:

Yeah, how, how are they prepared? What skills are we

Unknown:

making sure they have, particularly if they are moving

Unknown:

every two to three years around so they they they are gaining a

Unknown:

breadth of skills, but no depth in an organization, which, from

Unknown:

a career coach point of view, we know sooner or later, that's

Unknown:

going to be a challenge, yeah, to move up in an organization,

Unknown:

yeah, leaders listening

Lee Griffith:

to this conversation and going back into

Lee Griffith:

the work, workplace afterwards, what's, what's their next step?

Lee Griffith:

Where do they go if they this is now starting to go on their

Lee Griffith:

radar, and they think, actually, we need to be paying a bit more

Lee Griffith:

attention to the the impact of this in our organization.

Unknown:

I think one of the first steps that they can do

Unknown:

would be to actually go to HR and find out what data they have

Unknown:

on age diversity. Do they actually have an age diverse

Unknown:

workforce? Is there a breadth of diversity? We know that

Unknown:

productivity goes up. I believe is it 27% when you have a multi

Unknown:

generational team and intergenerational practices. So

Unknown:

what do your teams look like? We creating teams that look like

Unknown:

ourselves? Are we, you know, and again, as I said, is the

Unknown:

another? Another? What you call it wrong in intersection and

Unknown:

everything, when you're talking about dei diversity and equity,

Unknown:

right and inclusion, it's another wrong to that, and it's

Unknown:

often ignored a until there's a lawsuit. It's worth looking at

Unknown:

what the data is saying to you. Look at attrition rate at all

Unknown:

levels and see whether it's telling you anything. And then

Unknown:

perhaps, just as we're seeing now with menopause in the

Unknown:

workplace, we're seeing lots of workshops, Lunch and Learn

Unknown:

workshops where people are coming in and just talking to

Unknown:

leaders and organizations talking to employees about the

Unknown:

impact of that on women in the workplace. Maybe invite an

Unknown:

expert to come and talk to your team leaders, your middle

Unknown:

managers, about the different generations, what that might

Unknown:

mean for work, what challenges they might be facing, and then

Unknown:

from that see what what next? Bab, so if people

Lee Griffith:

want to reach out to you and find out more about

Lee Griffith:

the work that you do, or to say thank you for the insights that

Lee Griffith:

you've shared on this episode, how can they find you?

Unknown:

So I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me just there as Tomi

Unknown:

Ayodeji, the multi generational workforce coach, and my bio will

Unknown:

be also with this podcast. When people will want to reach me, I

Unknown:

will put the links and the show notes and links will be there.

Unknown:

So bad, etc. Well,

Lee Griffith:

thank you so much for your time. It's been I mean,

Lee Griffith:

there's so much more we could talk about you going for four

Lee Griffith:

hours, but I'm sure we've all got things we need to be getting

Lee Griffith:

on and doing, so we will leave it there for today. So thank you

Lee Griffith:

for your time.

Unknown:

Thank you, Lee, thanks for having me. If

Lee Griffith:

you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review

Lee Griffith:

on Apple podcasts and let me know what you thought on

Lee Griffith:

LinkedIn. You can find me at Lee Griffith. I'll be back with the

Lee Griffith:

next episode in two weeks time. So in the meantime, sign up to

Lee Griffith:

my newsletter at Sundayskies.com for monthly insights on how else

Lee Griffith:

you can lead with impact until next time!

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