Shownotes
State of the Second host Kaylee and her co-host sit down with Ben, the CEO and founder of Otter Waiver, to talk through one of the quieter fights in the firearms industry: getting a marketing message to land at all. Ben explains how his company grew from a digital waiver tool into Otter Technologies, adding Otter Text after gun ranges and retailers kept getting kicked off mainstream texting platforms. He built the texting product in 2022, and when carriers and big providers started dropping firearms businesses in 2023, his company became one of the few solutions still standing in the space.
Much of the conversation digs into who actually sets the rules. Ben breaks down that compliance runs at the federal level through the TCPA and the CTIA, then again at the carrier level, where companies like T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint enforce their own terms of service. He argues the recent T-Mobile changes mostly followed fines the CTIA had already set, and that the real shift was carriers wanting to audit and approve traffic before it goes out. His core message: the idea that you can't say 'gun' or 'ammo' in a text is false. Follow the regulations, age-gate the website, register the campaign on a 10DLC number, and restrict to 21 and up, and a business can advertise firearms directly. He points to a husband-and-wife e-commerce shop that spends about $30,000 a year on text and pulls in 2.4 million, and a client who canceled radio ads after keyword tracking proved no return.
The hosts widen the lens to data privacy and platform suppression. Ben describes refusing to store serial numbers or trackable data tied to a person, and Kaylee ties that to ATF record collection and de facto registries. They also cover shadow banning on Meta, the difficulty of even being found on Instagram, and the recent moves by X and Rumble to approve firearms advertising. Ben presses GOA to fight to lower the federal age threshold from 21 to 18, and notes his company donates 1% of revenue to 2A causes.
Links
Questions this episode answers
Why are gun ranges and firearms retailers getting kicked off mainstream text marketing platforms?
Starting in 2023, carriers and big providers began dropping firearms businesses from mainstream texting platforms, leaving Otter Text as one of the few solutions still serving gun ranges and retailers in the space.
Who actually regulates firearms text marketing, the federal government or the carriers?
Both. Compliance runs at the federal level through the TCPA and the CTIA, and then again at the carrier level, where T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint enforce their own terms of service.
Can a firearms business legally say 'gun' or 'ammo' in a marketing text?
Yes. Otter Waiver's founder says the idea that you can't say 'gun' or 'ammo' in a text is false. Follow the regulations, age-gate the site, register the campaign on a 10DLC number, and restrict to 21 and up, and a business can advertise firearms directly.
What does it take to stay compliant so carriers like T-Mobile won't fine you?
Age-gate the website, register the campaign on a 10DLC number, and restrict messaging to 21 and up. The recent T-Mobile changes mostly followed fines the CTIA had already set, with carriers now wanting to audit and approve traffic before it goes out.
Why is firearms text marketing restricted to 21 and up, and should that age be lowered?
Compliance currently requires restricting firearms texting to 21 and up. Otter Waiver's founder presses Gun Owners of America to fight to lower the federal age threshold from 21 to 18.
How profitable can text message marketing be for a small firearms business?
Otter Waiver's founder points to a husband-and-wife e-commerce shop that spends about $30,000 a year on text and pulls in $2.4 million, and a client who canceled radio ads after keyword tracking proved no return.
How does Otter Waiver handle customer data and serial numbers to protect gun owners?
Otter Waiver refuses to store serial numbers or trackable data tied to a person, which the hosts connect to ATF record collection and concerns about de facto registries.
How are firearms companies dealing with social media suppression, and which platforms now allow firearms ads?
The episode covers shadow banning on Meta and the difficulty of even being found on Instagram, alongside recent moves by X and Rumble to approve firearms advertising.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Meet Ben and Otter Waiver
- 00:40 — From waivers to Otter Text
- 02:34 — The CTIA, TCPA, and carriers
- 04:34 — What T-Mobile actually changed
- 07:13 — The 21-plus restriction
- 08:52 — Youth programs and First Amendment
- 11:48 — The big-corporation double standard
- 15:28 — Success stories and ROI
- 22:07 — Automation that drives sales
- 24:42 — Data security and ATF records
- 32:40 — Email vs text vs social
- 35:56 — Meta suppression, X and Rumble ads
- 40:07 — Top myths in firearms texting
- 46:17 — Where to find Otter and the GOA offer
About the guest
Ben is the CEO and founder of Otter Waiver, now part of Otter Technologies, which also runs Otter Text, a texting product built for the firearms space. He got into shooting sports through 4H around age 6, growing up on three acres and shooting bows and guns from a young age. He has a background of about 12 years in marketing and advertising. He built the texting product in 2022, and says his company became one of the few text marketing solutions in the firearms industry after carriers and providers began dropping gun ranges and retailers. He spoke at Shot University during SHOT Show. His company donates 1% of its revenue to fight for 2A rights. [VERIFY last name]
Key quotes
"We're being kicked off of X, Y and Z platform." — Ben
"If you have enough money, you can pretty much get away with anything" — Ben
"If you follow the regulations that we work with, with every single client, we have a 100% success rate to pass." — Ben
"I'm never going to give up a pin to a safe in my opinion when it comes to data." — Ben
"We need the firearms industry to be fortified." — Kaylee
"We also donate 1% of our revenue to fight for 2A rights as well." — Ben
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:This week we're joined by Ben, the CEO and founder of Otter Waiver.
Speaker A:Welcome.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
Speaker A:We're super excited.
Speaker A:You guys have been partners of ours for a while.
Speaker A:You are very innovative in the space.
Speaker A:So why don't you get into a little bit about your company and just a little bit about yourself?
Speaker B:Most definitely.
Speaker B:I actually got into shooting Sports probably in 4H when I was probably 6 years old.
Speaker B:Lived on 3 acres, always was outside.
Speaker B:So we were like shooting bows and arrows and guns at a young age for the company.
Speaker B:You know me from Otter Waiver.
Speaker B:But ever since I started Otter Waiver, it kind of progressed because we kept on meeting more and more gun owners and gun range people that were like, hey, we need help with text marketing.
Speaker B:We're being kicked off of X, Y and Z platform.
Speaker B:Can you guys build another software for this?
Speaker B:And so company has actually progressed from Otter Waiver into Otter Technologies.
Speaker B:And we have Otter Waiver and we have Otter Text.
Speaker B:So now we have a texting product that's strictly in the firearm space.
Speaker B: when we built the product in: Speaker B:Terrible year for range owners and retail owners because they got kicked off of other text providers and we turned into being the only solution in the space.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And it's been so much fun going down that rabbit hole because I.
Speaker B:My entire background has been in marketing advertising for about 12 years.
Speaker B:So being able to actually use my knowledge to help retail owners and range owners grow their business, it brings me joy every day.
Speaker B:Plus, I love what we talk about on our sales calls, meetings and everything else.
Speaker B:It's so much fun.
Speaker B:Like, I had a conversation with owner in, I think it was Washington, and I was like, so what's.
Speaker B:What's new this week in the gun space?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, your product, while definitely in that marketing space, is not without some significant infringements by government agencies.
Speaker A:A lot of people who listen to this podcast hear the issues with the ATF with gun bills in Congress, but you guys have to deal with.
Speaker A:It's the fec, right?
Speaker B:It's the CTIA and the TCPA Telephone Protection Act.
Speaker B:If I had a billboard, I would be able to, like, tell you what it is, but my brain's like, fried after four days of shot show.
Speaker A:Yeah, no worries.
Speaker B:So we have to deal at the federal level for the compliance for being able to text someone and call somebody and Then at the mid grade level all the carriers decided that hey, we're not a federal agency, we're just going to make regulations for the firearms industry and we're all going to agree that they have to follow these regulations otherwise they're going to be kicked off.
Speaker B:So not even at the federal level.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know that it wasn't very long ago that the news broke about T Mobile being incredibly, how do we put it?
Speaker C:Regulatory and anti gun.
Speaker C:I mean not being able to send a text message marketing advertisement to your, the people who have signed up for your text messages because it has either a firearm or any regulated good in it.
Speaker C:It's crazy to think because text message marketing is one of the fastest growing and best marketing compared to email.
Speaker C:I mean the open rate on text messages is 90%, your click through rate 75.
Speaker C:Where you know anything about email marketing.
Speaker C:Email marketing, you're happy if you get 20% on a large list.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean the what T Mobile and other carriers I assume are doing is they are doing the bidding for the anti gunners because they like that control.
Speaker A:And I think that they've kind of created a pseudo state in which they really feel like they're the puppet masters and in many ways they are unless we find solutions around it.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I'll talk about that a little bit because I had a talk about three days ago at Shot University and it was kind of funny.
Speaker B:I came on stage and brought an elephant and sat it and I said let's talk about the elephant in the room, T Mobile.
Speaker B:Let's talk about how you can still do marketing around these restrictions.
Speaker B:And when we dug into what T Mobile did, I honestly personally wasn't surprised.
Speaker B:I mean what they announced and changed in their terms of service actually followed fines that were already set by the ctia.
Speaker B:The only difference is what happened about four months ago starting in August was all the carriers were like, hey, we want to make sure that we know what traffic is coming that's being pushed out.
Speaker B:So they were being very, I can't even think of the right word.
Speaker B:They were pushing to make sure that everyone followed regulations and that everyone get audited and know what traffic's being sent.
Speaker B:And so when we looked at it for our own company, will this actually affect our range owners and retailers?
Speaker B:It's actually not because we make sure everyone follows the guidelines set forth with age gating on the website.
Speaker B:With age gating, opt in and follow every single guideline that's set forth.
Speaker B:And when you do that, you actually don't have to worry about what seems like T mobile being anti gun.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't know what they are, but they're just trying to force everyone to show what they're going to advertise before they do it.
Speaker B:And so we know the workaround for it.
Speaker B:It's like follow their guidelines and do it.
Speaker B:If in my opinion, if we're following the guidelines in the industry and then they start restricting, that's when there could possibly be a lawsuit.
Speaker C:You know, and that's the crazy part that they're, I understand they're changing their terms of service, but when you sign up for text marketing you're opting in to that.
Speaker C:So which means that you want to see those products, you want to see what those companies want to send out.
Speaker C:So if you're not, if you have to get approval for that, I feel like that's just an infringement because I wanted to see those.
Speaker C:I opted in to that for a reason.
Speaker C:I shouldn't have the restrictions to go around as a marketer to go around these companies going, hey, we want to know what you're doing.
Speaker C:If the people have already opted in, that's their free will to select what they want advertised to them 100%.
Speaker B:And the number one thing that a lot of rangers and retailers absolutely don't like is the restriction is 21 plus.
Speaker B:And the carriers put that restriction because they're looking at federal level and they're like, you can purchase any Type of gun 21 years of age or older.
Speaker B:And that's something that I think needs to be dropped down to 18, especially at the federal level so that they can at least reduce that by three years.
Speaker B:But I 100% agree with you.
Speaker B:If they're opting in, they should be able to get those text messages.
Speaker B:But it's also annoying.
Speaker B:I have a lot of ranges that most of their clientele is between.
Speaker B:You got youth programs and then you got 18 year olds and then that's like 75% of their business.
Speaker B:And, and there's different ranges that fit that bucket.
Speaker B:Other ones it doesn't affect them that much because 96% of their clientele is over the age of 21.
Speaker B:But it does affect business and it does affect like avenues to be able to generate income.
Speaker B:Especially when they're being kicked off of different social media platforms.
Speaker B:Like at this point it's very, very hard as a retail or a range to be able to market to your customer.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean we've seen the shadow banning, we've seen the kind of your posts go against community Guidelines, we're going to leave it up, but we're going to restrict who can see it.
Speaker C:I mean, that's going way further on infringing on our First Amendment rights than they should.
Speaker C:But we've, we've talked about youth since you brought up youth.
Speaker C:Let's.
Speaker C:I want to touch on that real quick because we've seen this administration go after youth programs, go after Hunter's education and things like that.
Speaker C:We were just recently talking about how do we keep the Second Amendment strong.
Speaker C:And that is getting into these youth and teaching them about the Second Amendment.
Speaker C:And it's kind of become this taboo thing where you can't teach your children about guns.
Speaker C:And if you go, they go to school and they talk about it, they get, you know, suspended or expelled.
Speaker C:We saw the kid in.
Speaker C:Where was that?
Speaker C:Idaho?
Speaker A:Alabama.
Speaker C:Alabama.
Speaker C:It was Alabama with the Don't Tread on Me patch on this backpack.
Speaker A:No, no, sorry.
Speaker C:That was finger bun.
Speaker A:Alabama was finger guns.
Speaker C:Colorado was the kid.
Speaker C:Well, that's two examples right there.
Speaker C:It's been a long week, folks.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But those two examples right there, first off, the kid in Colorado with the don't tread on me, that's infringement on his First Amendment rights versus free speech and going after him.
Speaker C:And we've seen Congress even and the FBI have these showing that these symbols of freedom are very terrorist like and these are red blooded Americans wanting to spread freedom, want to talk about freedom and going after these youth programs and going after the youth for wanting to do the Second Amendment.
Speaker C:It's showing clearly what we were just talking about, how these companies want to and school systems and things want to show this hidden agenda that they want to get rid of our second Amendment rights altogether.
Speaker A:So I'm assuming, and I don't know if you know the answer to this, but there is no regulations for.
Speaker A:Let's say if every town wanted to send text messages about how awful AR15s are to people on their list, but if someone were to say, put AR15s in a positive light, there would be regulations on that.
Speaker A:Is that kind of how it works?
Speaker B:Yes and no.
Speaker B:All the regulations is based on what you're actually sending in a text message.
Speaker B:So if a town decided to send a text message like that, they could actually get flagged, especially if they didn't register their campaign that they were going to talk about firearms in any kind.
Speaker B:And then for retailers, if you want to talk about Ars or guns or a suppressor cell, you have to register and the carriers have to know that this is the type of content you're going to send out and it's 21 plus to be able to receive that content.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Because so often the.
Speaker A:The rules are way different depending upon what side of the IO you are.
Speaker A:So I was curious on if there was any regulations that kind of show that double standard.
Speaker B:Well, I do have a great example of a double standard, and that is if you have enough money, you can pretty much get away with anything because you can look at Walmart.
Speaker B:Does Walmart regulate texting?
Speaker B:And check 21 plus, they don't.
Speaker B:Does Shiels?
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker B:They sell firearms.
Speaker B:Does Bass Pro?
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker B:They sell firearms.
Speaker B:So if you have enough money and you're a big corporation like those four examples, the carriers don't really care.
Speaker B:So there has to be something said about how much money the carriers are being paid to care about the content being sent.
Speaker C:That's insane.
Speaker C:I mean, that's just.
Speaker C:Again, that's capitalism at its best.
Speaker C:But at the same time, you can't, you shouldn't ruin these mom and pop ffls.
Speaker A:That's not capitalism.
Speaker A:That's crony capitalism.
Speaker A:Those are two different things.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But what I'm getting at is.
Speaker B:We've.
Speaker C:Talked about the zero tolerance policy from the Biden administration and we've talked about FFLs and brick and mortars and these small gun shops across the country that are getting shut down for small mistakes.
Speaker C:But by pulling that business away from even those small gun shops, that's hurting them even bigger.
Speaker C:Because the business is what the sales and that camaraderie that we see from these small gun shops and ranges and things like that, there's always some guy sitting around a coffee pot.
Speaker C:There's a bunch of people hanging out.
Speaker C:By pulling those campaigns to draw in new customers or draw in your customers with sales where you can't do it because the carriers are blocking that.
Speaker C:But if you're a bigger corporation in these big retail stores being able to do that, for some people, the main street is still a thing.
Speaker C:And the small gun shop on main street, it may be the only gun shop for hundreds of miles.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think that the.
Speaker A:We need to protect that 100%.
Speaker A:But I think we also need to encourage gun stores and ranges that are smaller to not give up on expanding into new marketing strategies.
Speaker A:I think there's almost a.
Speaker A:Well, why should I try?
Speaker A:Like, I just need to.
Speaker A:I need to do what is working right now.
Speaker A:And I don't want to try to expand or rock the boat because, you know, maybe the margins aren't great right now or maybe the buying Power isn't great right now, especially in the kind of economy we're in currently.
Speaker A:So I do like, I know that we're talking about a very serious issue and one that is highly regulated.
Speaker A:And if you're listening to this podcast, you know, don't take this as a fear of trying something new.
Speaker A:Take think of it more as a.
Speaker A:We're letting not only, you know, but all of the customers that are potential, like, hey, this is happening.
Speaker A:But thankfully, there are companies and experts who.
Speaker A:Who know how to help you navigate that.
Speaker A:So you're not shut out of the market, at least not yet.
Speaker A:I can't predict the future, and I don't have a crystal ball, but, you know, it's kind of one of those things.
Speaker A:It's like you strike why the iron is hot.
Speaker C:Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker B:I have a great example.
Speaker B:I've been telling a lot of people this that come see us this week.
Speaker B:I've met a lot of owners, just husband and wife teams, like opening up a retail shop.
Speaker B:And they're like, I don't know if I can afford this.
Speaker B:I don't know, like, if I should do this and send.
Speaker B:Utilize texts as a way to market to my customers.
Speaker B:And my favorite story to tell them is I actually have a client that.
Speaker B:I wish I could say that I trained them in texting, but they actually got into texting themselves.
Speaker B:They got dropped by 5 text services until they got recommended to me in the industry.
Speaker B:And text is their number one revenue generator for them.
Speaker B:And when they were not using text, they were losing $20,000 a week.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And when I got them set up and going, now they don't have any problems.
Speaker B:They send out text messages automatically.
Speaker B: much money they brought in in: Speaker B:Just husband, wife, team E. Commerce.
Speaker A:How much?
Speaker B:2.4 Million.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:So when you, like, actually, like, invest, especially in text marketing in the firearms space, you can make a lot of money because you have a niche group of people and you're just getting those customers to just be loyal to you.
Speaker B:Another great example.
Speaker B:I don't know how much they make, but Aero Precision, I know a lot of people that signed up for Aero Precision, especially during the holidays, and they send a text message every single day.
Speaker B:I got those.
Speaker B:I think I bought, like $1,500 or more from them.
Speaker B:I kept on being hammered.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, you got me purchase well.
Speaker C:And that's.
Speaker C:I applaud the firearms community for growing, but it is a trend that we were talking about that with people earlier this week that some of them are stuck in their ways.
Speaker C:It's the old heads are kind of stuck in their ways of this is how we've marketed for years, this is how we're going to market.
Speaker C:This is how we're going to continue to market.
Speaker C:Because they're scared of the new.
Speaker C:I mean, a lot of companies still do not have an email list or still do not have a text message list.
Speaker C:They rely on social media and print ads and walk ins.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And print is great for those who do print, but it's not as great as it used to be.
Speaker C:And social media is hit or miss depending on the day and how they feel about you and what you're doing.
Speaker C:And that's a big thing where they have to understand that you need to.
Speaker C:It's scary like you said, and it can get expensive, but you need to go in and innovate and go in and try new strategies.
Speaker C:Marketing is hard cause the trends are ever changing.
Speaker C:You need to keep up with the multiple trends especially.
Speaker C:And I was just having this conversation, I get really heated about this, I guess, or more passionate when it comes to marketing in the firearm space because that is my, my thing.
Speaker C:But I've had conversations with companies and friends who I've known for years and they go, well, we released this new product and we're just not getting the traction on it.
Speaker C:And I said, well, when did you tease it?
Speaker C:When did you release it?
Speaker C:Well, eight months ago.
Speaker C:And when did it hit the shelves?
Speaker C:Two weeks ago.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's not how this works anymore.
Speaker C:Our society, this Amazon society, is such instant gratification.
Speaker C:If you're not grabbing, you've grabbed your customer's attention and their attention span is so short, unfortunately.
Speaker C:And I'm not, no, no offense to, to anybody out there, but if I have my attention on a product and I want to buy it, if I it's not available when I want to buy it in six months from now, I have already found something new that I wanted to buy and no longer have the funds or means or disposable income to buy this thing that you advertised six months ago.
Speaker C:So as a community, we need to embrace this new generation of gun owners and, and new generation of this instant gratification.
Speaker C:Because if you don't, you're likely to fail at that.
Speaker C:Because we can't be sticking in our old ways.
Speaker C:We need to move forward and grow.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, listen, when it comes to marketing and the reason we have these conversations on the podcast is one, we want everyone in the two way space to be successful in what they're doing.
Speaker A:We're not gatekeeping, we're not doing anything that would in any way hinder business.
Speaker A:Because we need the firearms industry to be fortified.
Speaker A:And we want you as consumers, if you're on the consumer side of this, to understand that the conversations that we're having are important to the longevity of the second amendment and anything that we can do to move the needle and make it more accessible and more front of mind and ultimately I think more positive when it comes to how it's presented in our culture that is good for everyone.
Speaker A:It's not a red versus blue dynamic.
Speaker A:This is a second amendment right.
Speaker A:It is a natural right.
Speaker A:And we get to have really cool products because of that right.
Speaker C:Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Speaker B:Makes a lot of sense.
Speaker B:It reminds me on the one thing that I try to do, especially with integrations we have with point of sales systems is the number one thing that can drive sales and drive education is automation.
Speaker B:Because a lot of the times a computer software can see what a sales staff can't, such as someone signing a waiver and saying that their first time, first time to ever handle a gun and then being able to send out an automated text message encouraging a handgun class or encouraging a CCW class.
Speaker B:And so that's one thing that we're doing with a lot of ranges, especially with making it easy for anyone new coming into the space.
Speaker B:That the one thing I've learned is everyone wants an easy button and I want to create that easy button, just help promote the industry, help promote gun ownership and just make it easy for owners to be able to communicate with their customers.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:And that's a big thing.
Speaker C:I mean coming from the background of originally working in a small shop, automation paid dividends when we swapped over to the POS system that would auto reorder things that were popular or say, hey, this has been sitting here for six months.
Speaker C:A lot of times you may order something, it may sit there for a long time, but if you don't know it's sitting there or the volume that's selling, you just see it eventually out you decide to buy more.
Speaker C:You have to understand your customer base and what they're buying and what sells through properly.
Speaker C:And knowing that information and automating that information is huge.
Speaker C:And I encourage FFLs and ranges and retailers to come talk to you to go learn more about this automation and learn more about text message marketing and all the benefits of being able to do that and hit send and see the instant bump to your revenue yeah,.
Speaker B:It's quite amazing, especially with people that take our advice and actually follow everything that we teach when it comes to the industry and what we're doing.
Speaker B:Like one thing that we built for access and aim to big point of sale systems was we built a reward system so that small ranges of retail shops that always wanted to do rewards, like the big box office stores, they can now just turn on a switch and we run all the data through and we handle all the rewards for them.
Speaker B:Something that would have cost them thousands of dollars.
Speaker B:It's completely free in our system and it just helps them like get that interaction, get people coming back in the door every 30 days.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we all know what's going to happen in the comment section, so I'm going to go ahead and address it now.
Speaker A:Anytime we talk about the words automation, information, collecting data, the first thing that everyone wants to know is how secure is it?
Speaker B:It's as secure as it is on our servers.
Speaker B:I mean everyone can get hacked at some point.
Speaker B:I'm not going to say it will never get hacked.
Speaker B:I mean we've seen private servers at rangers and retailers get hacked.
Speaker B:I would think it's very secure and we back everything up.
Speaker B:We also don't share the data anyway because that data is very secure for the industry that we're at.
Speaker B:I'll give you a great scenario.
Speaker B:We have a policy with our waiver platform that we've had a couple ranges want to use it to be able to put a serial number of a gun on a waiver and we had to tell them that they could use our platform to be able to fill out their information but they had to print that and write anything else they wanted on it because we don't allow anything to go through our system that is trackable or has a serial number attached to a person because we do not want that data on in there.
Speaker A:I mean, that's fantastic, right?
Speaker A: a gun owner and especially in: Speaker A:And safe practices with data is so vital to the protection of the industry.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:I mean you just look at, was it Wyoming or Montana that ATF came in and got all the records from a gun store or retail shop?
Speaker B:Was that like a few months ago?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Gosh.
Speaker A:I mean it's, it's been a long weekend.
Speaker A:My brain is just having A hard time.
Speaker C:I believe it was 180.
Speaker A:Yeah, I there, there's been lots of things like that recently.
Speaker A:I mean, and I wish the examples were few and far between.
Speaker A:It wasn't very long ago that we found out that the ATF was storing out of business records for longer than they were supposed to.
Speaker A:And there was digital versions of them of over a billion gun owners records.
Speaker A:And we also had a company, 2A Commerce, who came on to kind of explain some of the banking things with MCC codes and how, how they are tracking purchases made at gun stores.
Speaker A:And so there's all of these attacks on the second amendment and just on security and data privacy.
Speaker A:And so I know as we educate ourselves more, those are questions that we naturally have.
Speaker A:And so the fact that you're limiting what can be on those forms and protecting users data and no one is unhackable.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like no one has the arrogance to say that.
Speaker A:However, you know, you at Otter waiver us at GOA pride ourselves in making it as hard as humanly possible to get that information.
Speaker A:And GOA has even been involved in fights in which they want nonprofits to turn over their donor list and different things like that.
Speaker A:And we have been constantly on the offensive on that to protect our members data, which we know is our members are our most vital resource.
Speaker B:Yeah, and 100% agree with you on that part.
Speaker B:I'm never going to give up a pin to a safe in my opinion when it comes to data.
Speaker C:So you've been in business for a while now.
Speaker C:What are some of the great success stories you've seen?
Speaker B:I would have to go back to that first success story about the couple that's been able to generate 2.4 million in a year.
Speaker B:They spend about $30,000 a year on text and they're able to generate that kind of money.
Speaker B:And on top of it, they're not just sending text messages that are blank.
Speaker B:Every text message they send out has a gun in it and it talks about a gun.
Speaker B:So when people think hey, I can't talk about guns, I can't say ammo, I can't say come to the shooting range.
Speaker B:I can't have shooting range in my name.
Speaker B:That's actually false.
Speaker B:If you follow the regulations that we work with, with every single client, we have a 100% success rate to pass.
Speaker B:And then you can say whatever you want.
Speaker B:Which is amazing because it really helps drive up revenue.
Speaker B:Because they post a brand new gun that no one has seen that they sell it instantly and it's gone.
Speaker B:Another success story.
Speaker B:Cause we talked about this earlier was you were bringing up radio ads, print advertising, all the old ways of advertising.
Speaker B:Every time I get a ranger retailer come to me, I always ask them was like, are you doing any prints in church bulletins?
Speaker B:Anything with schools?
Speaker B:Are you doing billboards?
Speaker B:Are you doing radio?
Speaker B:And most of them are doing one of those or all of those mediums.
Speaker B:And the cool thing about text is you can use it to track ROI on those mediums.
Speaker B:Like, I had a client that used what's considered a keyword, which is if, say, for instance, you text GOA to a certain number, you would get an auto response back.
Speaker B:We train our customers to use keywords to track those types of mediums.
Speaker B:So one of my customers was advertising on, I think four radio stations and they used the call sign as a keyword and said free range pass if you text this keyword to this number.
Speaker B:And they instantly were able to cancel three other radio ads, saving tons of money because they saw that they weren't getting any return on investment.
Speaker B:Same thing with the same client that was doing TV ads as well as billboards.
Speaker B:For the first time ever in like five years of being open, they were able to actually track ROI and see, say, hey, we're actually been wasting money in these categories.
Speaker B:So text in that area has been like, very successful for people to like, just put all their money and realize, hey, we're actually making a huge ROI on text.
Speaker B:And we now have proof that we are in other scenarios.
Speaker B:Like, it's actually been amazing, like getting, getting ranges that we're doing like 5,000 waivers a month down to being able to digitize that and actually be able to collect that customer data to be able to do marketing.
Speaker B:And that's been huge in the industry because with our waiver product, we always knew we were going to build a texting product, so we made it.
Speaker B:So make it very easy for their customers to opt in for email and opt in for text so they can instantly get that opt in instantly.
Speaker B:Be able to send out promotions and really be able to promote to their customers that want to know more about them.
Speaker B:Like, I think a great example, another great example, speaking about keywords in the texting realm is I tell a lot of people, I've told a lot of people this week is, I know you say you have a list of 50,000, but honestly, 10% of that is going to be your highest customers.
Speaker B:So if you can like really narrow down your list, know, hey, these are the guys or the women that are going to buy up all my ammo.
Speaker B: or: Speaker B:Like really being able to put your customers in buckets and know what to market to them can really help them grow their business much faster.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I've had large email put list when working at other companies and knowing the amount of spam, that grading we get and figuring that out and messing with that, you know, email marketing is fantastic when it works.
Speaker B:I mean, when does it work?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, if you hit it at the right time, sometimes it works.
Speaker C:If you hit it at the wrong time, it doesn't work.
Speaker C:If you accidentally blacklist your server, that's a big thing.
Speaker C:You know, I've dealt with it all and email marketing at the time when we were doing it was very successful.
Speaker C:But when you're sending out to millions, you're getting a success rate because you're just hitting volume.
Speaker C:And to have a list that big is a lot of money to hold those servers.
Speaker C:But we found and I found and I'm very, like I said, I'm very passionate about text message marketing because it works.
Speaker C:It's very kind of instant in your face.
Speaker C:I mean, I don't know about you, but I check my email maybe once a day if I'm lucky and if it's like at the bottom of the email or my inbox, I mean, I don't.
Speaker C:I will play a game.
Speaker C:Kaylee, how many emails do you have in your inbox right now?
Speaker A:Oh God.
Speaker C:I think my personal email.
Speaker C:I've got 4,40,000 unread emails.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker C:I mean, just a lot.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:How many.
Speaker C:Do you know how many unread emails you have in your personal email inbox?
Speaker B:My personal.
Speaker B:Not my business.
Speaker C:Not your business business.
Speaker C:I read almost every.
Speaker B:I stopped looking at my personal five.
Speaker C:Years ago, so you probably have.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:But every, like all these unread emails, you know, that were text message marketing.
Speaker C:I think I've opened every text message marketing thing I've gotten and read it because it's in my face.
Speaker C:It's right there, it pops up.
Speaker C:Sorry I called you out, Kaylee, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I mean, listen, my email's a dumpster fire and we all know it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's why we communicate on LinkedIn and text.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, that's talk about channels that don't make sense in anyone's world but mine.
Speaker A:LinkedIn is my favorite platform.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But they've they've taken you down.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:They banned me for three whole months.
Speaker A:I was without LinkedIn.
Speaker A:It was such, such an epic.
Speaker B:Not know about that.
Speaker A:Epic fail.
Speaker C:She's the queen of the nerds with her 80,000 follower LinkedIn.
Speaker C:Like, this is awesome.
Speaker C:Bragging rights.
Speaker A:It's not a bragging right.
Speaker A:Like no one's like, oh, you know, how, how many likes do you have on LinkedIn?
Speaker A:No one.
Speaker A:You know what's interesting is no one has ever asked me that.
Speaker C:How many likes do you have on LinkedIn?
Speaker C:I just asked you though, seriously, like, it's weird where in this industry LinkedIn and texting and getting people's.
Speaker A:We have to go outside of meta.
Speaker A:Let's, let's just call it what it is.
Speaker A:There are so many things that are happening with traditional social media and I know that everyone wants to put social media into this bubble of it's the new thing.
Speaker A:I'm sorry but social media is not a new thing now.
Speaker A:It is, it has turned into its own mainstream market economy type deal and we're not welcome in the public square and it's very difficult to grow.
Speaker A:And so yes, it's great.
Speaker A:And if you follow us on Facebook and Instagram, fantastic.
Speaker A:And we love you for it and we're going to continue to post on there.
Speaker A:But you know, it's, it's not the place that it was six months ago, let alone five years ago.
Speaker A:Like the market is changing.
Speaker C:Well, you're not wrong.
Speaker C:I've talked to people in the industry, marketing wise and a lot of them have gone away from your traditional influencer with the large Instagram because it's just not producing the ROI that YouTube and other forms of content are getting.
Speaker C:I mean I've had, let's just take any of us for example, I bet you if you go search our personal or company Instagrams, you have to type in the full name just to be found.
Speaker C:Which is utterly ridiculous that I have to because we are so hidden in our own space to have to type out a full name.
Speaker C:I mean, I was looking to tag people the other day and I'm typing in the name and like what is happening?
Speaker C:So then I end up Google fuing it trying to find their, going to their website to find their Instagram so I can tag it and typing it all out and it's annoying and it sucks because during.
Speaker C:And again being in the marketing space in this industry for a while, during the pandemic and during that time Instagram was huge because everybody was on their phone and it was paying ROI dividends.
Speaker C:And now it's not because of all this suppression from Meta.
Speaker C:And people are going back to the YouTube reviews and going back to, you know, text message marketing and email marketing and things like that, just to help boost where you lose all that stuff on Meta.
Speaker B:Have you guys had any success with X?
Speaker A:Yes, tremendous.
Speaker C:Good.
Speaker B:Had to ask because they haven't improved my ads for two months.
Speaker A:We don't run ads there.
Speaker B:Oh, you should try and see what happens.
Speaker A:Well, I know that they just approved for the firearms industry to run ads on.
Speaker A:On X yesterday, and it made an announcement for it.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:So it might be live then.
Speaker C:Not only did Twitter approve it, but Rumble has also approved running firearms ads.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:That's new this week too.
Speaker B:Yeah, I did not know that one.
Speaker C:Yeah, Rumble now approving firearms ads for firearms companies who run ad advertisements before Rumble videos.
Speaker C:So we are gaining.
Speaker C:I mean, Twitter's mainstream.
Speaker C:It has been mainstream for a while.
Speaker C:Elon took it over and has really brought back some of the freedom to Twitter.
Speaker C:And there are smaller social media platforms out there, like truth social and LinkedIn.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:No, LinkedIn's huge.
Speaker A:But LinkedIn is also not friendly.
Speaker C:No, it's not friendly, but there's a lot more friendly platforms out there, like True Social and Rumble.
Speaker C:The thing we've seen over the years is these platforms are yet small and we have a strong goal to push them.
Speaker C:They just never seem to catch on.
Speaker B:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:So I know we keep talking about the issues with compliance and the.
Speaker A:The kind of the government bodies that oversee.
Speaker A:If you were to say these are the biggest myths that are out there for the firearms industry, for the individuals who want to get a text message from their favorite manufacturer or gun store telling them all of the great products that they have.
Speaker A:Like, what are your top myths?
Speaker B:I would have to say probably this top myth is you can't talk about anything firearm related in a text message.
Speaker B:A lot of people have tried to hide it.
Speaker B:I knew a range that also owned a coffee shop, and they decided to send out text messages from the coffee shop to tell people to go check their email because they kept on being flagged if they used ammo or a gun.
Speaker B:And yeah, a lot of people in the industry, they don't actually, like, read the regulations, and so they try to, like, go around them.
Speaker B:But if you actually read the regulations, the regulations say that if you put an age gate on your website, if you do a proper privacy policy for a 10 DLC number, which is a 10 digit long code.
Speaker B:If you put a proper CTA and if you fill out the campaign registration, which is a registration to pretty much tell the carriers what type of content you're going to send out and you have an age gate for opt in, guess what, you can say whatever you want.
Speaker B:You can put a picture of a gun, you can put any type of advertisement, you can talk about ammo suppressors, anything you want.
Speaker B:But a lot of people are trying to go around it, but going around it will get you fined.
Speaker B:It's going to get you fined from T Mobile, it's going to get you fined from Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, all the carriers.
Speaker B:I think that's the second myth.
Speaker B:Everyone saw the whole T Mobile thing and they're like, oh, we're going to get fined from T Mobile.
Speaker B:So we're going to add a checkbox on our website that says we don't support any T Mobile phone numbers.
Speaker B:Well, that's another myth too because T Mobile wrote that into their policy.
Speaker B:But technically, all the other carriers can also find you for not following the guidelines they set.
Speaker B:I think the other myth is I'm not going to name drop on this show, but people see different websites in the industry and it says 18 on plus.
Speaker B:Are you 18 years of older?
Speaker B:Yes or no.
Speaker B:And people think, oh, I can just put that on my website and be fine.
Speaker B:Well, that was something else that T Mobile came out about and was like, if you're not following 21 on up, then you're going to get a fine from us.
Speaker B:And that's because that regulation is set at the federal level with tcpa, which stands for the Telephone Consumer Protection act, as well as a cellular tele.
Speaker B:Cellular Telecommunication Industry Association.
Speaker B:They set it at 21 plus because they look at it as being federally regulated.
Speaker B:And in the firearms industry, they don't want to look at each individual state.
Speaker B:Take marijuana for instance.
Speaker B:It's never going to be allowed on text marketing because it's not federally legal.
Speaker B:On the firearms space, they look at it as you have to be 21 years or older to be able to buy any type of firearm in all 50 states.
Speaker B:And because of that they set it to 21.
Speaker B:They don't care that you can be 18 in say, Texas, buy any gun you want.
Speaker B:They want it to be done at the federal level because they don't want to individually be able to be looking at your text messages wondering what state are you in?
Speaker B:Which that's what.
Speaker B:That's why I'm on the show.
Speaker B:We need you guys to fight for that.
Speaker B:We need to lower the age.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, I mean, listen, there is, there is no doubt that in any government regulation, especially a body that is a bureaucratic body, it's going to be a moving goalpost.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Where, you know, this, this hopefully improves and, and is definitely a fight that we, we often take on at different levels of the industry.
Speaker A:Listen, we have Department of the Interior got a whole bunch of comments this year.
Speaker A:We've got the, the ATF always gets a bunch of.
Speaker A:We're not limited to just fighting the ATF when it comes to the protection of the Second Amendment.
Speaker A:We will fight for the Second Amendment wherever that infringement stands.
Speaker B:Another debunk that I'll say real quick is a lot of people feel like, hey, my texting service won't allow firearms.
Speaker B:Well, there are texting services out there.
Speaker B:I'm a great example for my company.
Speaker B:But I'm going to kind of debunk that a little bit.
Speaker B:And that is there's a difference between following regulations and carriers not having a problem with firearms if you follow them.
Speaker B:And then there's big organizations that came out and said no firearm content on our platform and the two biggest text providers in the industry, Bandwidth and Twilio mostly every single text marketing platform sits on top of those two companies.
Speaker B:And they came out and said no firearm content being sent through our system.
Speaker B:And that actually caused a lot of companies to drop the firearms industry from texting, even though it wasn't true.
Speaker B:Like carriers are fine with the content if you just follow the regulations.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's just another example of a private company that has set some really strict guidelines that ultimately hurt the second Amendment and the second Amendment community.
Speaker A:Well, I just want to thank you for coming on the episode.
Speaker A:You have been a pleasure.
Speaker A:Would you like to plug anything, send people to your socials, all that fun stuff?
Speaker B:Most definitely.
Speaker B:The best way to find us is go to get Otter IO.
Speaker B:You can find everything about the company and find both of our softwares on there.
Speaker B:But also, if you're wanting to jump on to text marketing in any way, go to Ottertext.com mention Goa and you'll instantly get three months for half price with us.
Speaker A:That's awesome and thank you for that because I'm sure there are a lot of Caliber Club members and partners across the industry that are very appreciative of being able to dip their toes into that.
Speaker B:And we also forgot to mention earlier, but we also donate 1% of our revenue to fight for 2A rights as well.
Speaker B:So that's why we're always involved, making sure that we know what's happening in all the states.
Speaker A:Well, thank you again.
Speaker A:I mean, like, it's so important that we all band from every, every section of the industry band together to protect, defend, and restore the second Amendment.
Speaker C:Well, guys, thanks for watching today or listening.
Speaker C:Make sure to like, share and subscribe.
Speaker C:Hit the little bell for notification on YouTube, leave a five star review on all podcasting apps, and have a great rest of your day.
