Jann Klose joins Joe Kelley to discuss his journey as a musician and the challenges of navigating the modern music industry. They delve into the importance of physical fitness for performers, emphasizing how it impacts stamina and stage presence during long shows. Klose shares personal experiences, including a recent trip to Kenya to manage his father's affairs, and the emotional journey of dealing with loss. The conversation also highlights Klose's collaborations, particularly with artists like DJ Kosher and Rachel Flowers, showcasing the organic nature of his songwriting process. As they explore the intricacies of neighboring rights and the evolving landscape of music royalties, Klose underscores the necessity for musicians to understand and adapt to the industry's financial dynamics.

Jann Klose joined Joe Kelley on the Musicians Reveal podcast for an engaging conversation that delves into the artist's personal and professional journey. Klose, a multi-talented musician, shared insights from his recent trip to Kenya, where he dealt with his father's affairs following his passing. This reflective experience intertwined with Klose's music career as he discussed how he secured a new neighboring rights deal in Africa, which highlights the complexities of music rights and the importance of understanding the industry. The discussion also touched on Klose's commitment to physical fitness, emphasizing the necessity for artists to maintain their health to perform energetically and sustain long careers in the demanding world of live music.

As the conversation unfolded, Klose shared stories about his collaborations, including recent projects with talented artists like DJ Kosher and Rachel Flowers. He elaborated on the creative process behind his latest release, 'Surrender,' and the significance of building relationships with fellow musicians to enhance the artistic experience. The episode showcases Klose's dedication to his craft, his passion for collaborative work, and his eagerness to connect deeply with audiences through music. Throughout the episode, listeners gain insight into the challenges and triumphs of being a working musician while also appreciating the emotional depth that Klose brings to his songwriting and performances.

Takeaways:

• Jann Klose discusses the importance of physical fitness for performing artists, emphasizing the stamina required for live shows.
• He shares the emotional journey of dealing with his father's passing while managing his career and personal affairs.
• Klose explains the concept of neighboring rights and how it impacts artists' royalties in different countries.
• The collaboration process with various musicians, including the significance of creating music during the pandemic, is highlighted.
• He reflects on his experience dubbing vocals for Tim Buckley's film and the unique challenges it presented.
• Klose also talks about the evolution of the music industry and the necessity for artists to adapt to new revenue streams.

Links referenced in this episode:

• www.jannklose.com
• www.youtube.com
• www.amazon.com
• www.rollingstone.com
• www.bmi.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• David Gresham Entertainment
• BMI
• Epic
• Tribeca
• Bon Jovi

You know, he was an athlete. We've talked about this.

You know, like, I consider, like, him and, and Michael Jackson and James Brown and I mean, really, if you're a rock star, you kind of have to be. You have to be really fit. Right. You can't just play three hour, two hour, whatever shows move around like that.

Sing that way, play that way without being physically in a pretty healthy place. Close my eyes and let go Sugar my lullabies Sugar my dreams up is down till night not what it seems Sugar might multiply I know what I mean.

Like Alice in Wonderland Stuck in between.

Two worlds he's back in the States, traveled all around the world. Just came back. We welcome my good friend Jan Close. How you doing, Jan?

Hey, Joe. Kelley. What's up? Good to see you.

Yeah, good to see you. And you're back in New York for a bit, right? I am, yeah.

I'm home in Astoria in Queens.

Okay. What was the recent trip? I think you were in Kenya, right?

I was in Kenya, yeah. So that was more of a personal trip, although I did some business as well.

Okay.

But I was sorting my father's affairs there. He. He had a. Has a. Had a place there and we're. We're trying to get that all dealt with right now, so.

Oh, your father, he. He passed.

My father passed away in August. Yeah.

Oh, sorry, I didn't know. Yeah, sorry to hear about that. Yeah.

I'm talking about it publicly, so.

Oh, okay. Sorry.

Yeah, no, no, that's okay. All right.

Yeah, we. We went through with my mom a year and a half ago like that, so. Know exactly what you're going through.

Yeah. But at the same. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. You know, like, and it's not. Nothing is easy and, and it, and, you know, nothing.

This wasn't, you know, and it is, it still isn't. You know, it's a, it's a. It's a.

It's a lot, you know, as, you know, to deal with that, you know, But I was able to do a little business while I was there as well, which is good. You know, I get a lot of support in Africa with, with my songs.

And signed a new neighboring rights deal with David Gresham Entertainment, who is based in. In South Africa, actually Sub Saharan Africa. And. And they have, they have a. An office in. In Nairobi now or a subsidiary that they work with there.

So I was able to combine it with some, know, some personal and some business. So.

So neighboring rights explain for the uninitiated like myself and probably people what does that involve?

So, so neighboring rights are interesting because it. It really is. It affects people that get a lot of. Get radio airplay, that get tv, that get usage of music in film, in television, on radio, online.

And tracking that usage is the job of a publisher. And in this case, neighboring rights, they are specifically when your music is played in countries where radio actually pays rights to the owner.

Isn't the case in the United States, for instance? Not for all. You know, not for. There are some.

But in general, it's a big hole in the American entertainment system that FM radio doesn't pay royalties to the writer, to the songwriter. And so neighboring rights are those types of publishing rights that are collected by someone like David Gresham and.

And his companies, and they get funneled to the writers. So it's a. It's a.

That's a good thing.

Yeah, because I have a lot of activity there and.

Right.

Money gets left on the table if that doesn't happen.

Yeah, I.

It's a good conversation that you mentioned because when I was working at wvof, I know the station paid two organizations to have the, you know, the ability to play the music, but artists would always ask, well, how does that work out for us? And I really didn't know. So I guess there was that gap like you mentioned. Right.

In the U. S. It's something that. That a lot of people in the. In the industry have been trying to get Congress to pass. And it. It's. There's a.

The lobbying of the stations of the, you know, the. The owners of the stations, which in America is corporately owned and they own a lot of stations.

That was a law that changed, I think, like in the late 90s under Clinton, actually under Bill Clinton. I think before that, radio stations are only allowed to be. Have. I think it was seven stations.

You know, a single entity were allowed to only own seven stations. It was limited. And that limit got taken away then and it became corporately owned. So fighting. You're.

You're fighting corporate rather than an individual. You know, if you're trying to get this to. To pass, it's. It's. It's complicated.

Well, you're a few steps ahead of most musicians knowing all that and getting.

I spend a lot of time thinking about this kind of stuff because I'm interested in not just making music, but I'm interested in getting paid.

Yeah, yeah, I know. That's right.

You know, and. And that's a tough. That's a tough thing in music, but.

Right.

Always. You. You just have to really find out how it works, you know, how the money flows. And. And that's a. It's not easy to.

To trace that in the music industry. It's very. It's tough.

So have you found, I mean, a career expansive of years with the seven CDs putting out a new release? I think you had vinyl for your last release too, right? Surrender. Is it easier now or. Or it's just as tough. What's that?

The vinyl sells, so.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And. But yeah, I mean, that entire.

Yeah, I think so, yes.

Playing me then and. But things were already pretty bad.

Yeah. Starting. Yeah.

So that, that. That income stream is really gone until we've replaced it with something else. And that hasn't happened. And so we have to.

As musicians, we have to find other sources of income, and that's mainly through licensing music and through performances now.

And fortunately, you've kept a steady, steady career performing live.

Yeah, somehow I've been able to do it, you know, and. And it's your blood, sweat and tears, really. We were just talking. I had my assistant here and we were working on some stuff together and.

And yeah, it's. It's hard, you know, it's. It's a. It's a tough.

It's a tough business to be in, but I don't think it's ever really been easy to be in the music industry or in the entertainment industry. You know, I'm hearing something. Someone calling you.

Oh, you know what we've got in the studio here? We got flowers behind like a African violet with. With grow lights that G put together. I think there's a timer at this time of day. It'll turn off.

Hi, G. Yeah, she's in the other room watching our dog. But she said hi before.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's gonna go off, trust me. But let me tell you ask you about your popularity in South Africa over there. You know, if people go to YouTube. Jan Close J A N N K L O S E.

You will see, you know, the rapport and connection, especially with the school children. What.

You know, I saw the outdoors performance you did a few years back, and the kids were like the back and forth with you performing live was amazing. Where. Where did that take place?

That was in Pumalanga province. That was while we were making in tandem in South Africa, which is the record I did before. Before Surrender.

And we partnered with Tutu Desk, which was a. It's an organization that brings desks to rural communities in. In Southern Africa. Desmond Tutu started it and his daughter runs it now. He's.

He passed away, as we know.

And I worked with them for a while, and so we would do these handover events while I was working on the record in Johannesburg, and we would drive out to Mpumalanga Province and pass out the desks to the kids, and they would perform for us, and then I would perform for them.

Okay.

And we filmed the whole thing and cut it together. Actually did. Did the editing myself together with the. With a friend and. And we. We cut that footage together for.

With a song called Never Fall that's on. On in tandem. And yeah, there was an. It was an awesome experience, you know, with, like, working with those kids. It was. It was wonderful.

Now, you grew up in where in South Africa? What town did you grow up in?

I. We lived in Johannesburg.

Okay, okay. And I noticed you've got some dates coming up right after January, right? A couple dates, yeah.

So we're. We're heading to Germany and I have a show in Hamburg on January 3rd and in Berlin January 8th.

Okay.

And then we're in LA after that for a couple of events and shows.

Oh, yeah, you're going to NAMM, right?

NAM show, yeah. Marriott Stage, January 22nd, and the Venice west in Venice on January 26th. With Mark.

With. With Marky.

Marky Lennon.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. Marky Lennon and friends. I'm a friend.

Yeah. So when you go to namm, what do you.

First band? He was in Roger Waters band for. He did.

Oh, okay.

Waters, yeah. And he has a band called Venice.

Cool. So, right. Right off the bat, you're. You're traveling and. Yeah, yeah. Do you. Do you dislike traveling these days that far?

I. No, I love traveling. You know, once. Once the airplane takes off and there aren't any, you know, disturbances on the plane.

Right.

But yeah, you know, I. I have this discussion with.

With other traveling musicians a lot, you know, about the screaming children and the, you know, the packed planes and, you know, it's. I have more of an issue with the parents.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I mean. I mean, when we were flying, when we were kids, you know, we weren't allowed to do a lot of things. You know, it was very. We were.

Right.

Much stricter. But now I think, yeah, I have more of an issue with the parents than the kids.

I've never had Kids. But yeah, you see the kids kind of running the show sometimes.

It's, it's gotten so bad.

Right, right.

It's really. But other than that, I love it. You know, I love traveling. I love flying too.

Oh, okay.

I mean there are some airlines that are better than others and again, there's, the industry has just mushroomed and you know, we have, we're transporting a lot more people than we used to.

Yeah.

So, so that, you know, it makes for a different experience.

Well, at least out of New York you got options with, with airports and Yeah, I, I have got to fly out of Albany and I was flying to Vegas last year or earlier this year, I'm sorry. And can't get direct flight. So three hour layover in Atlanta and you know, just gotta go with it.

They're just, they're never fun, but you know, it, I try to just meet people when I'm traveling, you know, and make new friends and, and just, you know, what are you going to do? There's nothing you can do about it. So we just have to deal.

Yeah.

One of the flights on that, that trip, this guy, I took my headphones off and he goes, oh, I don't mean to be nosy, but I was looking at the music you were listening on the screen. You listen to some pretty cool music. So we got to talking and a DJ himself and he was traveling with his daughter and we talked the whole flight.

So, yeah, stuff like that.

It's great when that happens. You know, I, I met on my way back this, the guy that was sitting next to me, I think on the Mombasa to, to Nairobi flight.

He was a, he was like a tech guy. And, and so we had an interesting chat.

And yeah, I mean it's a, you know, it's one of the nicest things about, by traveling is meeting, meeting new people.

I had once I had this lady that was sitting next to me, this English lady sat next to me on a flight and she now she comes to all of my shows and she was just like, hey, it's me.

Yeah, she comes to the shows and you know, like, so you never know who you're gonna meet and, and yeah, it's, that's the, the beauty about of traveling is, is meeting new people.

Yeah. Have you got the additional pages in your passport or do you.

Oh, okay.

Has a lot of empty pages.

Well, fortunately, you're young enough to be able to go out there and fill them Up. So. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, the last time we spoke, I think it was prior to. You were getting ready to do the, the record release parties for Surrender. Yeah. How did everything go?

Specifically in Fairfield, the community theater.

Oh, that was great. That was. We had the, the Lee Lun School of Dance there with us.

Right, right.

At one point, there were like 40. 40 dancers on stage with us. Wow. It was, it was crazy. It was a lot of fun. That was love. But it was a circus. I mean, it was a circus.

Yeah. I, I. With the video, you see him doing the prep to your music, and they really took to your music. Yeah, they did, yeah. Who's the choreographer there?

Ej. Yeah.

Okay.

The name ej. Eileen Jovorovich. She's the teacher there at the Leland School, and she did the choreography for Sugar My.

For the dancers and my Sugar, My music video.

Right.

And in flesh and blood, she did the choreography for that. We filmed that up there. So those were, those are great experiences.

You, you released a bunch of singles off Surrender, right?

Yeah, I think there was five or six of them all together.

Yeah. Wow. But a lot of. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

No, I mean, like, I think, you know, if, if it can't be a single, you know, make sure it's a really, A damn good song.

Yeah. Right.

On a record, you know, I'm a big believer in no fillers.

Right, right. It's power packed. Yeah.

I want every song to be good.

Right.

Now let me ask you specifically about the collaborations you've done throughout your career, but recently, an interesting one, DJ Kosher, we've played that song on the air. Love is a Verb and. Yeah, talk about hooking up with DJ Kosher.

Love is a Verb. Yeah, that, that was a lot of fun. I met him. He's a South African. His real name is Colin Scher.

Okay.

He lives in Cape Town. He has a studio there, and he, he DJs. He produces. He does a lot of different things, like most of us.

Right.

And now, you know, I think in the modern, in the, in the music world now, we all like wearing more than one hat. You kind of have to. So he, I met him at a BMI writers camp, and we didn't write together like we did.

They didn't put us together for whatever reason, but we kept in touch. And I, when I was on tour in, In South Africa a year ago with Surrender, he. He said, hey, let's come into the studio and let's. Let's write.

You know, if you want to do something, I Was like, yeah, let's do it. Great. And so I went to a studio in Cape Town and he had had this idea for this song for this title. Love is a verb about writing about how. Love.

How do you. How do you use love? You know, we use the word love so lightly. Hey, I love you, love you, miss you, love you, you know. And so he wanted.

His approach was. And I really like this idea. How do you. How do you take action with. With love?

Like, what are the things that we do or can do or should be doing when it comes to exercising love and not just talking about it, but taking action? So that's. That was the premise of the song. Then we came up with the whole structure, the verse and the chorus, and did like a basic demo of it.

We had a few lyrics. Then I finished the lyrics in New York and record.

He produced the track in Cape Town, sent me the track, and then Marcus Dombinski and I recorded the vocal. My producer here in the.

In the US who produced Surrender and who I'm working on all the new stuff with now too, he produced the vocal and we sent the vocal back to him. We did it right here. Right here in this. Right.

Oh, yeah. Where the Grammy is. We can't see the Grammy on the wall, but it's next to the map.

And the. The nomination plaque, I should say.

Okay, okay.

And we sent him the. The. The vocal back and he dropped it into the track and it came out and it. It charted. You know, we did. We did all right with it.

You know, it had a nice little. It still has a pretty good life, actually. Then we did a lyric video and it has, I think, almost a hundred thousand views on YouTube now.

It's, you know, the. So funny how YouTube has become sort of my, My place, you know, for. Yeah, I love visual, so, you know, I prefer anything YouTube over, well, Spotify.

I'm not a big fan of Spotify anyway. That's. But. But is what it is, right?

Well, this interview audio will be up on Spotify, but, you know, I love Spotify. Yeah, yeah. But. But the thing is YouTube is this is what we focus on now too, because, you know, I love making videos too.

I love the visual aspect of music.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, you've always put out videos and interesting stuff recorded all around the world in New York and everything.

Talk about filming in New York for videos and. And the different locations. And is it difficult filming in New York for a video or, you know.

Yeah, kind of. I mean, you have to know where to go I mean, you have to find spots in New York that haven't been used before.

Okay.

Love New York. And they love shooting in New York. Movies, TV shows. I mean, sometimes they shoot TV shows on my block.

Oh, really? Yeah. Story of that's.

Yeah, you know, they had like, Blue Bloods or whatever that show was, and they blocked off the whole. The whole street. I was kind of annoyed because I couldn't park my car. Yeah, we know. We want people to work in the entertainment industry, so you.

Right, right.

You just kind of go, okay, no problem. You know, it's just. But anyway, long story short, I think you.

It's hard to find locations that have not been used as much, you know, and you have to find gems, and for that. That it means, you know, you have to really spend a lot of time looking for them. So. But yeah, I. I mean, New York is.

There's always something going on. There's always a backdrop of something happening, good or bad.

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. In the action of everything, you know?

Oh, yeah.

I only lived. I think I told you the story. I lived in Manhattan in Greenwich Village for three months my freshman year at nyu.

Oh, wow.

And tell Rick. Rick Rubin, the guy, the producer, he was living in my dorm starting Def Jam Records.

I didn't even know who he was, you know, but I saw a documentary and LL Cool J was coming into our dorm and, you know, just when they were starting out, so.

And you were like, that's where I lived.

Yeah, Weinstein hall on University Place. So. Yeah, but he's done pretty good. Rick Rubman for himself.

All right. Yeah.

Right. Now let's ask about the background with Broadway and musical plays and your music. Working into productions like that. It's always been interesting.

How did you gravitate towards getting your music into. Into plays and do you have any future plans to do something like that?

I mean, I would love to do more of that. You know, it's a. It's.

It's extremely time consuming, expensive, and it just takes a really long time to get something mounted because, you know, you have to really get the right people together, the right timing, and you have to have budget. It's. It's expensive. It's. When it works, it's amazing because the community that exists in theater is. Is very powerful.

You know, when you're in the room with. With. With people that all want to do the same thing, it's. It's the most gratifying feeling, you know, because you feel like you're part of a of a.

A vehicle. And you're only like a, you know, a little piece, you know, a mirror, whatever, on the car. And. And everyone has to pull together to.

To create something. Something beautiful. So. Yeah, I mean, I've done several different projects with people as an. As an actor. Singer. Actor.

When I first moved to New York, I was. I did Jekyll and Hyde at the Broadway. I did the who's Tommy. I did Jesus Christ Superstar in Europe. I was in those shows.

Yeah.

Which was awesome. And I'm still like, pushing him to, like, pick that back up. And he keeps saying it, you know, but, like, I'm waiting for him, you know.

Is he still out in Boston?

He is in Boston, yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

Nice guy, you know, so. Yeah, he's lovely. He's one of my favorite people in the whole world.

But he has a sabbatical coming up and he says, you know, he wants to work on the show. We'll see, you know, and it's one of those things, you know, like, you. Until something happens, nothing happens, you know.

Well, you're putting the pressure on. He watches this then, you know.

Yeah.

Maybe you're poking him a little bit.

We're talking about him. Maybe. Maybe he'll. He'll. He'll. He'll kick him. He'll kick him a little longer.

Right. I thought it was really cool because the theater itself was like in a. An office building. Right. Kind of. I don't.

The theater that we did it initially in was the Black Box. Was a Black box theater in.

Okay.

In. In Manhattan. In Hell's Kitchen. On, I think Sandy Shurin Theater. That's the name of it.

Yeah. We had the party before, was real cool. Yeah, it was nice. Thanks to invite us.

Oh, you're welcome. Yeah. I can't believe you remember that. But.

Yeah, some time ago. But yeah, we had a great time and.

Oh, it's so much fun, man.

Right?

I mean, we almost died. Yeah, it was fun.

Right? Now, let me ask you another thing.

Sure.

I need to know, how did you learn to do print splits?

How do you know about that?

I had to spring that.

I don't think I. I don't think I. I've done them in a while. I mean, I could still do them, but you.

You actually were doing that first. Yeah.

Prince splits. Yeah, I. I mean. I mean, you know, I'm like the Biggest Prince fan other than you?

No, no, we're all Prince fans.

Yeah. I mean, like, you know, he was the best. He was the best. And he left us such a legacy of music and great collaborations and writing.

Performing, forget it. But yeah, I'm, you know, I, I, when I first saw Prince, when I discovered Prince, it was on the radio.

I was in Germany, I was a young teenager and he, it was, I think he was touring with like Love Sexy or something. You know, I didn't discover him until around that time and I watched, I would watch him perform, be like, I.

Want to do that. Right.

You know, I mean, I do something quite different, I think, than he does, but he was one of those people that really inspired me to pursue the career of being a songwriter and being a performer, specifically because he was such a great performer. Armor.

Right.

And when he would do the splits, I would be like, I have to try to do that.

Yeah. You know, when he stopped doing the splits, I was like, disappointed because, you know, that was part of the appeal. He was great.

I mean, he hurt himself and that was pretty much his detriment to the end, which caused him to go in other direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I mean you, you know a lot of those stories because you're, you're very tight with a lot of the, the revolution, you know.

Yeah. So, yeah, Power generation.

Yeah, yeah, our generation, like all those great bands, you know, that he, that he put together and. Yeah, I mean, you know, he was an athlete. We've talked about this.

You know, like, I consider like him and, and Michael Jackson and, and James Brown and I mean, really, if you're a rock star, you kind of have to be, you have to be really fit.

Right.

Just play three hour, two hour, whatever shows, move around like that, sing that way, play that way without being physically in a pretty healthy place. And I mean, in his case, you know, in Prince's case, he injured himself.

You know, he injured, so he injured his hip in a really bad way and we don't really know how, but I mean, like, if you want to do that, do that. Yeah, you go, ow. You don't go, oh, right. You know, and, and so, but you know, I, I would copy like some of that stuff, some of his moves.

I don't really do that so much, you know, but for me, as, as a fan, I was more interested in it as a fan. And yeah, I did the splits and, and do them pretty well. I mean, I haven't done them in a while.

I could probably manage to get like Something close to them.

Well, I can't join you on stage. I gotta start tomorrow. Physical therapy for my left knee, so I'm. I'm out of action.

You've got to be careful, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

And it, you know, you can. You can injure yourself even at a young age, you know, and. And you can hurt yourself and it can have effects later on in life.

Right. Yeah. You mentioned love. Sexy. I'm thinking back. Did you probably seen the video? The tour was from Dortmund, Germany. Yeah. That they released. Yeah.

Love that film. Yeah.

And. And Cat, the singer from the group, just passed away about a couple months ago. Yeah. So something interesting.

I don't think I've talked to you too much about this when you. When you stop by the show, but you were the singing voice for a Tim Buckley production, right?

Yes. In the movie. Greetings.

No, what. What went into that? And obviously your big fan, right?

Story. Yeah, yeah. So. So that's, you know, that's a. That's kind of. There's a lot. There's a lot to that. So the way it happened is I was.

I discovered Jeff Buckley when I kind of started playing songs and writing and started playing out in school in late 90s, I discovered the Grace album and someone gave it to me. I think. I don't remember. I think somewhere in Youngstown, I was at a gig.

I mean, I was like, I was a kid and I discovered this guy, and I listened to the record and it had already been out for a few years, and I loved the record. You know, the songs on it were just so great. The performances, everything, the production, the playing, it was just really good stuff.

And then I remember reading in. I think it was Rolling Stone that year, like, 97, that he had drowned. And I was like, wow, what the hell happened here? You know?

And then I kind of put it out of my mind and, you know, I was just trying to, like, find my own way in life and. And work and whatnot. And people would say to me, hey, you. You sound a little bit like Tim Buckley. And I was like, I don't know who that is.

And it's like Jeff Buckley's father. And I was like, oh, Jeff Buckley had a father? And, you know, like, I kind of, like, made a mental note of it and.

And, you know, I'd listened to Grace like, up and down, and I kind of had moved on, you know, like, I'm kind of like, I'm. I'm the kind of musician that will listen like a book, you know, I'll read The book and I'll just absorb it and then I'll move on to something else.

Like, I did that this year with Michelle and Dago Cello's album, which is amazing, by the way.

Oh, okay. Yeah.

There was a tribute that had already taken place for quite a while in Chicago at a place that Jeff used to play called Uncommon Ground, a club in Chicago. Uncommon Ground, Cute place, good food, good beer, live music, original music, singer, songwriter type of venue.

And they would have these tribute concerts there. And so I was like, oh, I know all these songs. I should, you know, apply and see if I get the gig. And I did. And it was Sonic. Remember Sonic Bids?

Remember that website?

Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

I used Sonic Bits and I would submit all the time to stuff, you know, to try to get gigs, to try and get gigs, and nothing. I never ever got another gig from Sonic Bits. They're no longer around, right. I never ever got another gig from them.

That was the only one I ever got from Sonic. Wow. The only one. All the ones I submitted to, you know, I would always like, be like, nothing, nothing again. Then all of a sudden, ding.

It was like, oh, yeah, you're, you know, we'd like to offer you this gig. It wasn't. Wasn't like a money gig. I don't think it paid anything quite honestly, but it was like a, you know, prestigious gig and.

And I was like, well, it would be good networking, you know, like. And I think it'll attract an interesting community. And it did, right. Play those gigs and. And they raised music for.

I think it was old style, old town school of folk in Chicago, which is a great venue. And they.

They invited me back the next year and the next year and then on that third year that I did that gig and I would just book other shows around it, you know, because this, this was like a sort of, you know, natural way to just get in front of people because they were always sold out when they did these shows. And I think the third year, Jeff's mother was there and so I met her and you know, she. She really. She was lovely, you know, she was lovely lady.

And we got on and then. And then Gary Lucas, who was Jeff's collaborator. Jeff was a singer in his first band.

The first band that Jeff sang in was called Gods and Monsters, which was a band that Gary Lucas still has to this day. Different singer. You'd hire different singers for it. And when he met Jeff, he hired Jeff to be the singer in this group called Gods and Monsters.

And Jeff was. And Gary Lucas was doing his own Buckley tributes in in the City at the Knitting Factory at the time also no longer around.

Uncommon Ground is still there though. And he asked me to sing at it, so I did. And then Gary and I just kind of hit it off and. And Gary was like, I love your voice.

We should do something together. And I said, sure, what do you want to do? You know, what do you. So I was like, yeah, let's, let's. Let's write. So we got together and we hit it off.

He had these guitar. You know, he basically wrote with me the same way he wrote with Jeff. And it's featured in the film.

Like you scenes with you see someone playing Gary and someone playing Jeff. Penn Badgley. I'm trying to remember the actor of It'll Come To Me, the guy that played Gary Lucas in the film. Anyway, you can look it up.

So there's scenes with Gary writing Grace and Mojo Pin with Jeff with all the guitar parts and Jeff's character improvising. And that's basically what we did because Gary, one way, he basically only wrote that way.

He would have these guitar pieces that were some of them highly complex and sort of very progressive pieces. They weren't really like pop songs, you know. So I would say I would be like, Gary, this part, you know, keep this part.

That's the verse, this is the chorus, this is the bridge, you know. And then as we did this, we did this a couple times and we came up with these couple tunes and we really liked them.

And I was hanging out with Dan Beck a lot at the time, still a very good friend of mine. I'm seeing him at NAM at the NAMM show in January in LA. Dan Beck was worked for.

He was the VP of marketing at EPIC in the 80s and 90s and he was Michael Jackson's product manager, you know, like, he was like. He was like one of the guys at the top at Epic before the collapse of the. Of the traditional music industry.

He started the V2 label for Richard Branson. You know, he signed Moby. He was like that guy. So. And I knew Dan through my friend Kink Kume, who was a promoter in Japan.

And she connected us and Dan and I. And then Gary was. Had been friends with Dan already, so he was like, do you know Dan Beck? I was like, yeah, actually, I just.

So it was one of those things where it was like, oh, wait, we know the same person was like, maybe we can get Dan to, you know, help us with this project. And because Dan was a lyricist as well, a songwriter, songwriting, you know, did lyrics for different songs. And so.

And then we met and we hit it off and it became Stereo Opticon. So we did this album together called Stereo Opticon. Gary Lucas on guitar. It was very simple. It's just guitar, vocals. That's it. Mostly. That's it.

Okay.

It was. They were all co writes between me, Gary and Dan Beck.

And at one point while we were making this record, Gary was like, oh, they're making a movie about Jeff. And I was like, oh, who? What? What's the movie? He was like, oh, you know, there. There are several movies.

In fact, they were making three different movies about Jeff at the time.

Wow.

Mary Gobert, Jeff's mom, she had. She was trying to do a Broadway show and a movie. I think maybe not at the same time. I went to one of the readings of the. Of the play and. But.

But Mary wanted to make her own movie. And Dan Algren, who directed Greetings from Tim Buckley, also wanted to make his own movie. And he did, and he just did it quicker.

Right, right.

What happened? And Gary was hired to help with the music.

And at one point, Dan, Gary came up to me and he was like, they're making this movie and they're looking for someone to cover the vocals for Tim. And I was like, why? My first question was, why?

Right.

They don't they have a singer? You know that. Because the movie was in the can already. This was. The movie was done.

So basically what happened is they didn't feel like the vocals that Ben Rosenfield did, who played Tim Buckley in the films. Penn Badgley, Ben Rosenfield. I mean, there was a lot of people in it. It's a cool film. You should look it up.

And they just didn't feel like his vocals were strong enough and the guitar playing was strong enough. So they. They were looking for somebody to dub their lead actor.

Oh, okay.

Which is, of course, something they didn't want anybody to know.

Right, right.

And I don't talk about this a lot, you know, because even now, like, you know, I still feel like what a strange situation that was. But, you know, what, Whatever. It's. It's now 10 years ago that this happened, so I should talk about it more. More often.

I talked about it at the time, but it was really kind of pushed down by. By, you know, and I could see why.

Yeah.

They didn't want anybody to know that their lead was being dubbed. And so I did. I went and did an audition for. For Dan. For Algren, and I was the only person that auditioned for the part, and he hired me on the spot.

Two Tim Buckley songs. I sang them with guitar.

Okay.

And he hired me, and I dubbed, went in and did the parts for three songs. I had to dub the guitar part as well, and they didn't record to a click, so I had to, like, play along to, like, tempo. It was very.

It wasn't easy, Joe.

Right, Right. I can imagine. Yeah. Are you watching the actual film while you're. You're singing film?

And I'm playing along to the guitar part. I'm watching the film and I'm singing along to the vocal.

Wow. So.

And we did it in a day at Steve Adabo's studio in here in New York. Great. Good friend of mine, Steve.

Right.

And so then I was like, okay, well, that's it. They. They paid me. Wasn't a lot of money, but, you know, I was like, okay, well, you know, this will be a nice credit.

But then they didn't really want us to talk about it.

Yeah, right. Yeah, it's. It's a. They didn't want to give the studio secret. Yeah.

Yeah. It's been 10 years. Pen batch. They didn't want people to think that Penn, who played Jeff, didn't do his own singing.

Right.

And he did all of his own singing to be. To be very specific. So then what happens is I only tell the story at parties usually. But I've talked about it in my podcast a couple of times.

Right. Making sound. Yeah.

Sound. Yeah. And I talked about it here and there a little bit, you know, but so then they. They were like. They called me back in to do some more.

Some more stuff on it. There was some other things that they wanted to add that they liked that I did, and so I did.

And then at one point, there's a screening of the film at a little production studio somewhere, you know, in. On the west side, I don't remember exactly where. It's a small little screening room, and I walk in and I go to the.

Go to hit the loo, come back out of the loo, and there's Al Pacino.

Ah.

I'm like, Chino doing here. And so. But then I put two and two together because I had heard that Tribeca was interested in releasing the film.

Ah, okay.

Tribeca is De Niro's. Robert De Niro's production company that he co owns with Al Pacino.

I don't know if they still own it together or not, but, you know, Tribeca Film Festival, all of that is attached to that.

Right?

So. But this was actually true. So they wanted to release the film, and Al Pacino was there to watch a screening to see if he liked it.

Oh, wow.

So I was like, whoa. You know, and it was very hush, hush.

The whole thing felt really kind of strange and a little bit weird, you know, because it was Buckley and we knew there were other films that they were trying to make, and he didn't get the rights from the Buckley estate. Like, Mary Goubert denied the rights of Jeff's music. So it's all Tim's music, which is, quite frankly, just as good.

And there's a much larger catalog to choose from because Tim Buckley made eight albums.

Right.

You know, and I later became friendly with Larry Beckett, who. Who wrote the lyrics to most of those songs, like Song to the Siren, which I've recorded.

And, you know, Larry wrote a book called Song to the Siren with his poetry and Tim's, you know, music in there that just came out, too, this year and that I played at. So Larry and I have been friends for a long time. He's. He's a great writer.

So we're in this little screening room, and it's kind of quiet, and nobody's talking, nobody's saying anything. It's kind of dark, right? And, like, Gary is there, and I'm like, hey, man, what's up?

And he was like.

And we're like, what's happening? Al Pacino here.

What the.

So, and I'm. I sit down and Gary sits down on my right. And there's really only, like, you know, a couch. Two couches at, like, four like.

Like, couch chairs sort of next to each other and the screen and like, three rows of these. It was a small, small screening room. And Al Pacino comes into the room, and I'm like, oh, my God, please don't sit next to me.

Please don't sit next to me, please. Because I was nervous, you know, and I was like, what am I. What is my role here? You know? Like, I didn't. It was very confusing.

And you couldn't talk about your role, right?

No, not really. You know, I was afraid I'd say the wrong thing to the wrong Person, you know.

Right.

So it was a weird. And I was at a weird career stage, too.

This is, you know, now 12, 13 years ago, when I was just kind of like, starting to, like, come up a little bit and get to have some successes and, you know, and so forth. And so, of course, Al Pacino sits down right next to me, and there he was in his oversized suit with. He had, like, a Starbucks coffee, you.

Know, and did he have a scarf?

Scarf. And. Yeah, the whole bit, like, exactly what you think. But he made eye contact with me walking in.

Like, he stared right at me, and I stared right at him, you know, so it was no question, like, who that was. And I'm sure he figured out later who I was and what I did, you know, because obviously they must have talked about that.

I'm sure they did, you know, like, try to hide that from. From the people who ultimately released the film and, you know, paid for the distribution, etc, and so. But, you know, not. Not a word was spoken.

Nobody said anything. They screened the film.

It was a rough draft at the time, and it was already pretty good, you know, and I'm hearing myself sing, you know, and, like, Al Pacino sitting next to me. It was bizarre, Joe. It was bizarre. It was.

You didn't nudge him and say, that's me. That's me.

No, because, you know, like, I was like, what am I going to say to him?

Like.

You know.

Right.

So, you know, we left and the movie came out. They invited us to the premiere, and they discouraged us to talk about it publicly, what my role was.

But I still put it in my bio because there were a couple other people that weren't so happy with some of the things that happened. And so I used it in as a, you know, biographical. And I went on. Did my thing. I released a record called Mosaic. I put a Tim Buckley song on it.

I talked about it in interviews. You know, they. They put me in the credits as. As featured vocalist.

Right.

So I was like, well, yeah, that's what I did, you know.

That's right.

I'm on the soundtrack. Okay.

Yeah. And, you know, and Al Pacino has sat right next to you, listening to your voice.

Yeah.

For a movie that's pretty cool.

And we. We premiered at Tribeca Film Festival, was the premiere film.

You know, it was another one of those situations where I'm, like, walking down the red carpet going, nobody knows that that is me. And, yeah, it was weird.

Yeah.

Strange.

Yeah. You know. You know, most of us never know the story behind that.

Well, now you know.

Yeah, there we go. Speaking of your voice, which is amazing voice now, now, you're one of the few voices in the music business I could say does not need a microphone.

It's that powerful and engaging. When you perform live, how do you keep the, the voice going strong all through your career? Do you do anything special?

My. I watch my physical health overall. Okay, because you need, you need to have. You need to be in good physical health to perform.

You know, we're talking about this earlier. You know, I basically, I run pretty, pretty regularly, about 20, 30 km, sometimes more a week.

And I try to eat right and, you know, not party too much and moderation. You know, I try to do everything and, you know, I try to just keep myself healthy and fit and, And I try to use good technique.

You know, I work with singers too. You know, I coach some. I have a few voice students as well that I work with and produce and so forth.

So I, I try to apply my knowledge that I learned from my singing teacher to my students and to my own singing. And you can't always, you know, the biggest enemy that singing and performing has is lack of sleep.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. If you get enough. If I get enough sleep, voices, fine. You know, if, if I. If not, it affects it. That's the first thing I would say.

You know, I would make sure. Get enough rest. It's very important. And don't, don't speak with a vocal fry. Don't talk like this. If you. This, you're going to hurt your voice.

You know, a lot of kids do it these days, right?

It's popular. But, you know.

Well, you, you traveled all over where, you know, dialects in and out, I'm sure.

Well, I, I listen to them and I, I have a good ear, I think, and so I can sort of mimic, you know, relatively easily without even knowing it necessarily. But I try to learn the meaning of whatever words I'm singing in another language because I want to know what I'm saying, obviously, you know.

So there's a clip on YouTube 1. This had to be 13, 15 years ago. You're doing hold on me with the band behind you. But you start acapella before. Oh, yeah, yeah, right.

Oh, okay. Yeah.

And it's like your band's amazing stuff.

Go.

What's that?

You find all the, like, you know.

Yeah, see YouTube. YouTube. Say we're talking about YouTube. But the thing is, I, I thought to myself of like when the saxophone is.

Hold the note for so long or change it and without stopping and you know, Even the background singer, who was in your band at the time, she was amazed at what you were doing on there. Where was that filmed? If you remember? You had a violinist, an accordion. Chris was playing bass.

Probably Rockwood.

Oh, okay.

Also has gone. That just closed Rockwood Music Hall. Ken Rockwood, he had this club. It was great. And it was.

It was probably Rockwood Music hall because that's kind of where we started building out of. Yeah.

Now a couple other collaborations. Before we wrap it up. I wanted to ask you, Rachel Flowers, one of your more recent ones. You have.

I wandered with footsteps Laced with the memories of ancient songs telling the story unfolding within me A forest above the sea I see a day. Because she had collaborated with Annie Haslam from Renaissance, who I've collaborated with many times as well. And so I'd seen her name in the.

In the Prague, you know, in the progressive rock music scene. And Ellie was said, you know, you should check her out. And so I.

I did, and I had this song called the Lost Kingdom that I wanted to release that I'd written with Annie Haslam years ago. And Annie's retiring. She retired from singing. And so I, you know, I said, well, let me find someone. I want someone else on it.

You know, I don't want to just do it by myself. I'd rather have a female vocal on it because it. It's good for the song, you know, it's good for the.

The production, the overall experience of the track. And it. It ties into why we wrote it in the first place, you know, because it was meant to be a duet.

And so I asked Rachel, and she heard I sent her the song, and I was like, do you want to sing it? You know? Do you want to. You know, Annie can't do it. Do you want to do it? And she was like, yep, I'll do it.

So she did her vocal in California and did piano on it. She's a great musician. I mean, she's an amazing, amazing player. And then we premiered it at Progstock in New Jersey.

It's a big Prague, like, progressive music rock festival. And, yeah, it turned out. Turn out great. I love it. Love the song. I love her performance on it. Very beautiful. Marcus Deminski produced it again.

He's awesome.

Who you're still working with? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I'll be working with Marcus for as long as possible.

Another okay from me. What's that?

Until someone steals him, you know? You know, I'm gonna just work. I love. I love working with.

Yeah, stick with success and Comfort.

I'm still talented.

Yeah. Another, a video where I checked, that was you and Alex talking about collaborating on a particular song about the surrender.

Alex Forbes.

Yes, Alex Forbes. Yeah, you. It was like a real brief clip. You were talking about working together on a song. Tell us, you and Alex, how you. How you became connected.

Alex reached out to me after she saw or heard love you the most.

Okay.

That cool video. Yeah.

Became a top 40 hit and here in the US and it was in a movie called. It was used to promote a film called Married Young, which is an Amazon rom com.

Okay.

And they put it on the soundtrack and then we did a music video and it blew up on YouTube. Yeah. We'll make it through somehow I promise I won't let you down I'm gonna.

Love, love you the most.

You shine. And then we, you know, got. Went to radio with it and. And Alex heard it.

We've been friends because we met years ago on the Forbes yacht, believe it or not.

The Forbes yacht.

Steve Forbes. You know Steve.

Oh, yeah, yeah, right.

Steve Forbes is her uncle. She's. She's a Forbes.

Oh, okay.

And this is years ago, this. When I first came to New York, like 20 years ago, I was invited to by a friend who was in the media at the time. The Roy Murdoch. He's a.

Not related to that Murdoch. Forbes is related to Forbes.

Right, right.

Anyway, he's a CNN commentator at the time. And we'd met at some event. I don't remember, because I was going to everything.

I was trying to just network, you know, and I would just like crash parties and I would do anything just to like meet people, you know?

Right, right.

Because it was.

It was ambitious.

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a scary place and time. It, you know, But I was like, this is. This is it, you know, I'm here. I gotta.

I just got to meet as many people as possible. And so I. That's why I met De Roy. And he knew the Forbes. He knew Steve. I don't know how. But anyway, so Steve, they.

They take the yacht, the Forbes yacht, up to West Point once a year and they do like a little party there and, you know, and they go to a game, a football game. And so he was like, you want to go? And I'm like, yeah, do I? Yeah, do I ever. Let's go. Who knows who I'm gonna meet on that boat, you know?

And I met Alex there.

Did you have your white sailor suit on?

No, no, I was just, like. I was just, you know, a kid, like, trying to make connections and.

Right.

And I don't remember. I don't remember what I wore, Joe. I don't. You know, I was like. Probably wore. Probably dressed up decently, right? Wearing a hoodie, classy.

You know, like, trying dress to impress. And I met Alex, and we just. But we never spoke again until years later.

Wow.

When Facebook came up, I think we were friends on. We became friends on Facebook probably around that time.

And I think she just kind of followed what I was doing, and I kind of follow what she was doing, but we never reconnected until love you the most came out. And then she was just like, hey, let's write together. I'm like, fuck, yeah. Let's go.

Right?

Shock my senses and blow my mind? Watch me come alive. I surrender. I surrender. Cause even the darkest night has to end? And I surrender? Surrender, Surrender. Stepping into the. So.

So we did. And we wrote Surrender. We wrote Sugar My. We wrote Flesh and blood. We wrote Here in my heart. We wrote Even if it takes a lifetime.

All of these songs are on Surrender, right? And yeah, we had, like. It was during the pandemic. You know, the pandemic hit, and. And she was like, I already had Covid. You want to hang out?

I'm like, yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember. She basically pulled up the immunity.

Yeah, that's basically what happened.

Right.

And so I would go to her apartment, and nobody was doing anything, you know, So I was like, this is my lifeline, you know, to. To keep creating.

Right.

And it was. And it turned into a, you know, great collaboration. One of my favorites. You know, like, she's one of my favorite people.

I gotta ask you an awful lot of question about your collaboration. Where are either one of you Cure fans?

I'm sure. I mean, I would consider myself a fan of the Cure.

Yeah. I heard, like, two seconds. Not. Not like a Cure song, but just a Cure vibe to it. In one of the songs on there. I don't know. It's stuck in my head. Yeah.

That's a great compliment. Yeah. I love the Cure. Yeah.

Yeah. So, no, I mean, Surrender is the latest, but you're hard at work on writing new material now. Do you. You're on the road a lot. Where do you.

Where do you find the best place to write? In the room where you're. You're speaking from or on the road?

Anywhere. Anywhere. It doesn't. You know, all you need is a guitar and good company and, you know, quiet.

Right. Right now now you said it was an epiphone guitar behind you, right?

Yeah. That's my Epic Casino. I bought this in Cleveland for not very much money years ago. It's used. It's a Japanese model.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Now, now your go to guitar. Is it a Martin?

You said to Martin. Yeah, my Martin's over there. A couple over here. Yeah.

Okay. When you travel on gigs, you bring one or two guitars.

I don't. So this is an interesting story. I don't even bring them anymore.

Oh really? Okay.

Traveling with guitars is. Has become a real pain in the. You know what.

Right.

So I have bought a couple of other guitars and I leave them.

Wow.

Term. I have a guitar in Germany and I'm gonna get one that's, that's gonna.

I'm gonna leave in South Africa because it's so hard to travel with guitars or I get a loner, you know, and I don't want to damage my good guitars, you know.

Right.

So that's what I've started doing. That's bad. It is. That's how much, that's how hard it is dealing with the airlines now.

Yeah. I mean you had to be practical and yeah, that is a good idea, especially location. But it's got to be.

If you could travel across country to do a gig, it's.

I just don't buy the, the most expensive guitar. The, the expensive guitars, you know, they stay here and then I just get something that's decent.

Has to be a good guitar, you know, because you know, you still needed something that sounds, you know, as good as possible. But for live, you know, it, it's. It's a different thing.

You don't need like a top end guitar because it's going to be, it's going to run through a system anyway and it's still going to, you know, you're not going to hear the sound of the actual instrument anyway.

Right, right.

Or on stage instrument. You know, I'm not diminishing the. That you should, you should get a good guitar. I'm saying, I'm not saying you should get a bad guitar.

Obviously you should get a good. But. But you can get away with not having, you know, like a highly, very expensive instrument on stage.

You, you know, keep that for the studio and home and fighting, you know.

Yeah. You got to have the voice and, and the songs. So that's more important.

You need the inspiration from the instrument, you know, because if you have a great sounding instrument, it makes you want to write, you know, because the instruments sings, you know.

So let's remind our viewers and listeners the best place to get your music and to check everything for you. You. You can tell her.

Click on my face.

Yeah, there you go. There he is. Jan Close. There it spelled out for you dot com. And. And YouTube. Right. All over there. And.

Yeah, YouTube. I love YouTube. Yeah.

You're working with Martin in the studio again. And any tentative.

Marcus. Marcus Bradley. Everett Bradley and I are writing together.

Okay.

I should mention this because this is the new stuff that I'm working on. It's great. I love working with Everett. Everett Bradley is. He's a current member of a band called Bon Jovi. You may have heard of them.

Are they. They put out one album, right?

Italian.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

But, yeah, Everett was in. He toured with everybody, like Holland Oates, and he was in the E Street Band for a while. He. He toured with Seal just last year or this year even.

I think. Yes, this year. And so he's toured with me. We've known each other for years, and we started writing together, and it's a really lovely vibe.

So he plays bass, right?

He's a percussionist.

Oh, percussionist. Okay.

Different instruments, but he's okay. He plays percussion and sings in. In Bon Jovi.

We're going to do some remixes of Surrender.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. For.

Without DJ Kosher involved or other people.

No, we're probably going to do David Schoenwetter, who produced Love you the Most, and Pilot Light and Marcus and maybe a couple other people. I'm actually looking for DJs that want to collaborate. So if you got any DJs listening to you, hit me up.

That's it. You can find Jan. All on social media. Young Close. Yeah. Your. Your collaborations kind of happen organically, so hopefully.

Hopefully some great stuff I'm sure is in store for our. For our viewers and fans of you.

Yes, man.

Yeah. Thanks, y'all.

If you use your mouth, if you let it out, there's no need to be afraid. You can open up and say I am flesh and blood, not enough, I am not like another Find a way.