Pottery, Parables, and Portable Communionware: A Conversation with Lisa Kaufer In this whimsical kickoff of "Created Creative," hosts Dawn and Ruth embark on an Advent adventure, debating when the season truly begins. Meet their first guest, Lisa Kaufer—part minister, part potter, and an all-around Renaissance woman. Lisa spills the clay on her current projects, juggling finger labyrinths and curriculum creation. Unveiling how she’s crafted her multi-hyphenate identity, she confesses the joys and challenges of having so many irons in the fire, or rather, projects in the kiln. The trio digs into the art of crafting unconventional curriculum, including parables with a splash of basketball. Lisa shares her creative rituals and even reveals her idea of portable ceramic communion wear. Stay tuned as they create a tagline for Lisa’s business … and then struggle to create a tagline for this podcast. 00:01 Introduction and Welcome 00:19 Beginning of Advent and Church Traditions 01:03 Introduction to the Podcast and First Interview 01:32 Interview with Lisa Kaufer: A Renaissance Woman 02:08 Lisa's Multifaceted Creative Journey 02:57 Lisa's Work and Creative Process 05:34 Lisa's Diverse Interests and Creative Balance 07:31 Lisa's Creative Approach to Faith Formation 09:03 Lisa's Inspirations and Creative Influences 11:31 Challenges and Future Directions for Lisa's Creative Work 16:28 Brainstorming Session: Defining Lisa's Creative Brand 23:39 Conclusion and Farewell

Find Lisa's work at www.themuddyfork.org!

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

When I am engaging in a creative

2

way, space gets bigger, and

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God is always with us, but when the

space gets bigger, it helps me to

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recognize God's presence with me.

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Track 1: Welcome to Created Creative.

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I am Dawn,

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: And I'm Ruth,

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Track 1: and here we are

at the beginning of Advent.

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: yes.

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I can't believe it's already

the beginning of Advent

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Track 1: I've been in

Advent for a week already.

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The church leaders I coach seem to

be about evenly divided on this.

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Track 1: Some churches, including

mine moved Advent a week early.

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So you get four weeks of advent

before Christmas Eve, but that's

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not actually Liturgically correct.

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So you're the one who's

Liturgically correct.

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yeah, we

just keeping it normal I guess, but

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then we do miss out on getting the

full use out of all the blue banners.

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Track 1: And really it's about the banners

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yes.

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And they are so pretty.

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But we didn't wanna start it early,

so we're just doing it normal.

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Track 1: It's a season of new things

and this podcast is brand new.

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So here we are.

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yes.

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Yes.

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And so we thought that it would be

very liturgically correct to begin our

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podcast at the beginning of Advent.

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And so here we are with

our very first interview

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Track 1: I love that we're getting

mostly people out of the consecrate box.

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We're getting them outta the

box, , , so you have more of a

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relationship with them than me.

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like I'm meeting them when

we're on this podcast,

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yes.

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At, at least for these first interviews.

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This interview is with Lisa Cawfer.

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Track 1: Tell me everything.

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ruth_2_11-20-2023_173318:

Well, Lisa, she is amazing.

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I mean, she creates so many

different kinds of things.

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And she's done work for

Montreat Conference Center in

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North Carolina, for Princeton.

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Of course Consecrate

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Track 1: Yes, the big leagues.

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ruth_2_11-20-2023_173318: Yes.

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And she is a a Presbyterian

Minister of faith formation in Ohio.

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a Potter.

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She writes curriculum.

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She is truly a Renaissance woman.

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Track 1: a Renaissance woman,

which so many of us are.

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yes.

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Many different interests.

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Many different skills.

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And so interesting to hear her talk about

those things , and also which direction

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to go, which, where to lean in and I

think all of us wrestle with those things.

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Track 1: it did come up

how she is a multihyphenate

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multipotentialite, what do people say?

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Any of those,

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yes.

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, Track 1: it's hard to know how to put a

dome over it so people can understand.

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yes.

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And our listeners will get to hear that.

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Track 1: We try as a group,

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yes.

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Yes.

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We try,.

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Yeah, we do some actual the

air wrestling with that.

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and, That was really fun.

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Track 1: it was fun.

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So here we are.

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Without further ado, Lisa Cawfer

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ruth_2_11-17-2023_151803: Yep.

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Here she is.

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Enjoy.

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Track 1: Joy

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Hello.

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I'm glad you're here,

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Lisa.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: you.

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It's great to be here,

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Lisa.

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Tell us , where do you live?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

I live in Cincinnati, Ohio.

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Track 1: And where are you serving?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

I'm serving in Cincinnati, Ohio.

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I say that because, Presbyterian

Church of Wyoming is located

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in Cincinnati, and if I don't

emphasize the Ohio part, suddenly

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everybody transports me to the West.

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Ah, yes.

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But do you like Cincinnati Chili

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: I do, I

would say this season I prefer a five way,

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but , it sort of has changed over time.

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But yes, I do Skyline

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Yes.

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So good.

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So delicious.

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Well, we're so glad that you could be with

us today, and I've known you for a while

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through Consecrate and you've made quite

a few different things for Consecrate, and

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you're even in the midst of making a super

secret item for Consecrate at the moment.

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um, I've been a fan of your

work for a long time, what

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are you working on lately?

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Right now I do have a couple of big

clay projects a lot of my finger

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labyrinths are very popular for

retreats and conferences such.

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And so I am definitely

in that end of year.

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But also right now,

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: I,

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: have

a curriculum project that is

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something that um, been thinking

about probably for about two years.

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, I first came out with play filled parables

and that was Commissioned by a church

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who wanted, a new form of Sunday school.

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And so we were exploring the

parables through Lego and Minecraft

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and dance and visual arts and

basketball , all these things.

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so shortly after I finished that

project, I started thinking , about,

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it would be fun to,, write some

lessons about wonder filled mysteries.

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And so I've got a series of 12 stories

that I'm working on right now and that's

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been commissioned by a church in Texas.

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So once it's all finished, it

will be available to the masses.

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But.

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It's a lot of fun.

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Track 1: So your curriculums are taking

Bible stories or concepts and making them

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into things you can touch as you learn.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Well, yes, touch, but also , how

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can you engage the story?

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So

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We, are a part of the story still being

written so where are we in the story?

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And I have practiced godly

play for over a decade now.

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I really appreciate the rhythms of that

storytelling and how we are invited into

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the story and where are we in the story

and what part of the story is about us.

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And so that has definitely influenced

the way that I approach thinking about

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lessons, whether it's for Sunday school

or youth group or retreat for women or

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that kind of thing is, let's share the

story and let's Immerse ourselves in

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the story and participate in the story,

and then how do we respond to that?

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And so having response activities or

materials that you might not ever think,

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I never thought of playing basketball

as a way to engage the parables

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Mm-Hmm.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: but,

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Track 1: I wouldn't have thought of that.

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,

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: you really

are,, a diverse creator with the pottery

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and the writing and creating curriculum.

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And In your work at your church, , do

you get to do a lot of creative things?

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Do you

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Oh, definitely.

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I actually am new to this position

but as we engaged in conversation

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about if this would be a good fit I

was eager to share this creativity

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in a lot of different ways, and I

know that they're receptive to that.

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And we've already been working on

some projects that I haven't been

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able to do in other ministry settings.

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So I'm very excited about the journey

that we're beginning to share together.

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: I am so

glad that they value those skills

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that you bring because you're like

a little gold mine that they've

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got on their staff.

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That's awesome.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

thank you,

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Track 1: what's your primary art mode?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: I like

to do a lot of different things, but

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pottery is definitely the go-to right now.

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Actually, just the other day, my

husband said, I'm so glad that you've

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found one thing you like a lot,

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Track 1: Are there like seven

different hobbies going on

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,

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Yes.

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We have , the area for the yarn, for the

crochet and the knitting, and then we have

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the stitching stuff for slow stitching

and embroidery, and then, so many things.

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paper crafts.

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Yeah,

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, all

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: do your

kids like creating things too?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: So

far my family has not really said that

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they would like to dig in and play

in the mud with me very much, but

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they like to create in other ways.

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So,

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: I always

think it's really interesting to see

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how kids express their creativity, and

in some ways it might be similar to

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yours and in some ways very different.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Definitely.

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: do You try

to set aside certain time for your

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creativity or do you need certain

circumstances for it to really flow

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or just grab time whenever you can?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

It definitely depends on the

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type of work I'm trying to do.

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For writing projects, maybe it's

the season of life that I'm in with

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a very busy family and serving in

ministry and having a small business.

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Track 1: No big deal,

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

no big deal.

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But some of the curricula that I've

written has happened in the darkness

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of the very early morning before any

creatures begin to stir I go to bed

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early in general, but , some of my

most productive and most creative

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writing mornings have happened at

like three or four in the morning.

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Times that I didn't think were a

real time that existed in the world,

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Track 1: yeah.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: IT's not

something I do all the time, but I've

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also found that pottery could be portable.

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I am a hand builder and I have

found that certain parts of

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my process can be portable.

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And so I've been taking A box of small

pieces to my back deck or even the soccer

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field when my son was playing soccer

and I would be working on the next step.

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You know, there've been plenty of times

where I've been inside a coffee shop

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or on a Zoom and I've been knitting

or stitching, but actually taking the

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pottery out into the world in some way

has been kind of a new development.

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I've really enjoyed some of the

extra sunshine because my studio's in

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the basement so it feels different.

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Track 1: Does the change of

venue ever affect the art?

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Is the outcome different because

you're doing it in a different space?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Definitely.

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, just yesterday afternoon I was on the

back deck doing one of these portable

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pottery projects and way the light and

the shadows were playing with just my

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scraps and the piece that I was holding

just became a really sort of sacred

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moment for me , it became a, time of

devotion where I was thinking in a

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different way about this task that I

have done over a thousand times now.

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: That's so fun.

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who are some of your favorite

creative people that you admire?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Well, , I've met some of them

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Track 1: Oh, I love that.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: these

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connections.

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I'll start with I really appreciate

it when someone's not only sharing

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their Art, but they're sharing

their story and a lot of times the

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story is woven within their art.

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And so Naomi Clement is ceramicist

in Canada, and Tim C is in New York.

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And then Casey Waite, I feel

like I might have made that

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connection through consecrate.

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And so I enjoy following her work.

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I believe she's in Virginia and then

Carmel Bolin Caldwell from BFO Studios.

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I really loved seeing how her art

and ministry has emerged in some

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really neat ways because not only

is she an artist herself, but she

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loves to engage people in communities

experiencing art and Visio Divina.

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Track 1: I

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Like Lexio.

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Divina.

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I've never experienced Vizio.

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Davina.

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Tell me more.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: I think

she actually uses the language, creatio

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Davina.

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And so the act of creating, yes, Visio,

Davina might be , if you're looking at

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a piece of artwork and you're responding

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to it in that way.

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But Creatio Davina, I think is the

practice that she tries to share where

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she is providing people with materials

, and a prompt, , or a series of prompts

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it is not a situation where we're

saying we're going to paint a flower.

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You know, here's step one, here's step

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Track 1: Not those paint by number places.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

no , it is not that kind of a process,

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but really trying to engage your

whole self in the act of creating

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and seeing , what comes from that,,

and what that process brings forth.

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And connecting with the

sacred in a new way.

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,

Track 1: Mm.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

cool stuff.

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Track 1: Yeah.

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127:

That really is, yeah.

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Very cool.

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And how do you see your creativity

and your spirituality connect?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

I really think of that as.

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The space in between.

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Track 1: Ooh.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

For me, when I am engaging in a

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creative way, space gets bigger

and God is always with us.

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But when the space gets bigger, it helps

me to recognize God's presence with me.

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When I'm not being creative, , I'm

more distracted or, , focusing on

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family things or what's the schedule

or the list of things to do.

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But when I'm in a creative mode,

it, creates that space where I can,

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be more present in the moment , and

recognizing God's presence with me.

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Track 1: Kind of an awareness.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Yeah, absolutely.

265

. ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127:

Oh, that is really cool.

266

, Track 1: what are the challenges of

having all of these irons in the fire?

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

It is time for me to funnel down

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Track 1: Oh, okay.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: This is,

let's see, a . officially launched the

270

muddy fork at the end of December of 2020.

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So

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Track 1: When we had

all kinds of free time

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: exactly

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and so I,

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feel like the beginning of the journey

has been yes to all of the things,

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, you of like a kid in a candy store.

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Everything is fun.

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Let's do it all.

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And so now that I've been doing

this for a little while, it's

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helped me to recognize what are the

parts that are most life giving?

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What are the things that only I can do?

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What are the parts that I can really

benefit from having the support of others.

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I don't have to do those.

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It's actually better if I don't . So

I'm at the part where I'm I'm trying

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to identify, if I were to think of the

Muddy Fork offerings, what is the main

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collection of things that I would like to

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offer?

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And I initially thought , maybe it's

a top five, and then it became a

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top 10, and then it became a top 15.

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Track 1: And then it is not focused

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: right.

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Shoot.

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I did it again, , And so,

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but part of what I do value is that there

is diversity in what I offer, and so I

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appreciate that when I write, a digital

curriculum, it exists and I can share it

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over and over and over again, and I don't

have to create it over and over again.

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I should revisit it and revise

it, but The biggest part

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of the work has been done.

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That is not the same process for pottery.

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For pottery.

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I have to make every single

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Track 1: Right, right,

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

single time.

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And so I, I appreciate that there is

at least this, opportunity for some

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balance of some of the work being things

that, , can continue to have ongoing

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once I've created it, like the curriculum.

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But also from the pottery side,

things , that I can continue to

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offer in a very individual way.

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It is a lot, and it's true that if I

have a booth at a conference or a retreat

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or something like that, if somebody's

coming to my booth for the first

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time.

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Well, I have a friend, when she first

came to my booth, she stopped in

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her tracks and her face got really

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squished.

315

And then she said, what are you

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Track 1: What a great question.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: right.

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She said, what are you?

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And I was like, I don't know.

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But she was looking at my booth,

which had a basketball, it had Lego,

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it had textured rolling pins, it

had devotional cards, and it had

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pottery And so of course, like that's.

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Confusing , when you're

looking at it all at once.

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But I do feel like there is

a cohesiveness behind it.

325

But being able to articulate that, usually

people will know Lisa makes ceramic finger

326

labyrinths and then later they will learn,

oh, she has also made textured rolling

327

pins and curriculum and devotional grade

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. ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: I resonate

a lot with what you're saying too.

329

'cause with Consecrate , we

started about the same time.

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'cause I started

331

the end of 2020 and , it starts with

the boxes, but then I started doing the

332

print on demand, which is nice because

you create the design and then it just

333

sits there and people can order it.

334

And , that's, nice.

335

then the boxes , are much more hands-on.

336

And now we've added the book

group and then , the trip and it's

337

like, I like all of these things.

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But then to balance that too

with, the work in the church

339

.

And so to try to measure well is life giving and where am I being

340

led the most to put my energy now?

341

And it's hard, isn't it, when,

especially when , you love all of

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those things, but then you've got

the family and , life and health and

343

all sorts of things to think about.

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lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Absolutely.

345

And, I, appreciate that our journey

started very much at about the same time.

346

And I will always sing your

praises because I knew the

347

muddy fork was real when Ruth at

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Consecrate said, please, may

I have , hundreds of your

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ceramic finger labyrinths,

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ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: That was

351

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: Um, So

thank you for that But also I I'm gonna

352

start thinking Ruth, about seasons.

353

So maybe this is how I get my

list a little bit smaller for now,

354

is to think of my collection.

355

and I wanna give myself a number of lists.

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Five was a good number to begin

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Track 1: Yeah.

358

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Mm-Hmm.

359

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

So what are my top five?

360

And I can think, it doesn't mean

that I have to say goodbye to

361

all the other things forever, but

maybe it means , these are my top

362

five in my collection right now.

363

And then I can revisit that.

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One of the artists I follow

said that actually it's,

365

Naomi that I mentioned before.

366

She knows that people love to

buy, ceramic coffee mugs, and

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she makes beautiful ceramic mugs.

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But she does not want to only make

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mugs .And so she has set a boundary

on I will make 100 each year, and

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that's it, or however many it was.

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So that she continues to have the space to

do the other creative work that she really

372

likes to do and was life giving to her.

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And so I'm trying to.

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learn.

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I think we all get to learn as

we hear each other's stories

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Track 1: So how can we help?

377

Is there any place in which we

can help you as a business owner

378

or as a creative entrepreneur?

379

or marketing or figuring out

what your top five are, is

380

there a place that makes sense?

381

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: Well,

yes, we could talk about the top five,

382

but also this idea of, because I

have such a diversity of things I like

383

to offer, if there's a way to help

articulate what connects it all together.

384

Like normally I would say,

385

you know, the Muddy Fork is a creative

studio specializing in ceramic

386

gifts and faith formation resources.

387

And so ceramic gifts is really

388

concrete and then Faith formation

resources is that bucket of weird things,

389

Track 1: Yeah.

390

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

that take very many forms.

391

Track 1: Although is it object

based somehow resources you

392

describe to us feel unique?

393

Because I know a lot of

people writing curriculum.

394

Your stuff is very informed by

being a sculptor Potter person

395

with her hands, it sounds like.

396

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

It's true.

397

If I use an adjective in there, I would

add play filled faith formation resources.

398

That's

399

often the word that I

use, but maybe there are

400

other ways.

401

Track 1: I think there's another word.

402

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Help me, I dunno what

403

it

404

Track 1: don't know.

405

Human thesaurus.

406

, it's something about repurposing

real objects into theological

407

concepts, something like

408

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

there you go.

409

Yeah.

410

Track 1: That was a first draft.

411

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Right, right.

412

So I have spent a lot of time

in Montreat, North Carolina

413

with the Arts, recreation and Worship

conference and , the youth conference.

414

So those have also really informed

along with godly play, what I bring,

415

I try to share with the world now,

So recreation is,, , a key value?

416

Well, art, recreation,

417

Track 1: I see.

418

And you had the basketball

in one of your curriculums.

419

Is it something, when we're talking

about the pottery,, I know of the finger

420

labyrinth 'cause it was in the box Is

a lot of the pottery helping people with

421

their spiritual journey in some way?

422

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Yeah, So I've made pocket

423

crosses, little prayer stones.

424

I also, I made a trinity prayer stone

for the consecrate box for Pentecost.

425

And ceramic finger labyrinths, And I've

made some clergy crosses and then started

426

to dabble in portable communion wear.

427

And

428

so, this is what tickles my

429

.

creative spirit, because I thought I'm not a pastor but I thought if I were

430

to be serving communion in somebody's

home, like I like the idea of having a

431

portable communion set that's ceramic,

but I would want a way to carry it.

432

And so I figured out this way

make little kind of a jug pitcher

433

and a cup and a plate, and to

have them stack, are you ready

434

to have them stack

inside an insulated wine?

435

Bottle

436

Track 1: mm-Hmm.

437

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: my gosh.

438

How cool.

439

Track 1: I can

440

picture it.

441

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: yeah.

442

I love that.

443

Track 1: Have you done it?

444

Can we have a picture?

445

Okay.

446

. So it's something about supporting

people's faith journeys through

447

ceramics and curriculum,

448

because it's not random

ceramics, it's spiritually based.

449

I'm just thinking of a byline

or a way to pull it together

450

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

definitely spiritual,

451

like I have the most fun.

452

I do enjoy making coffee

mug from now and then,

453

but, if I'm doing that, it's

because I'm excited about the

454

ritual of having that quiet

455

Track 1: Ooh.

456

What about ritual Ceramics.

457

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Ooh, I, that's interesting.

458

I don't know when I hear

the word ritual in that way.

459

Track 1: oh.

460

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

I don't know what that brings to

461

my mind in a visual way, but I

totally hear what you're saying.

462

Like

463

there's a spiritual

sacred, longing , kind of

464

seems To be the undercurrent,

465

Track 1: How about interactive sacred

ceramics and curriculum to go with it.

466

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

maybe That's true because it is true

467

that like with the prayer stones

and the finger labyrinths that

468

it's, you're meant to engage it.

469

Well, and even the idea of the

coffee cup, like I said, I haven't

470

made many of those, but, being

together , and sharing together.

471

Track 1: Ruth, what are you hearing?

472

, ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: my mind is still

stuck on the, the cool communion kit that

473

you're, that you made.

474

Because I'm like, that

is such a cool idea.

475

, and as someone who does bring communion

around, like . I mean, to have something

476

beautiful and not the stupid little

glass bottle and the little plastic

477

cups or glass cups.

478

I mean, they're just, they're ugly.

479

What's out there, you know?

480

Track 1: So you're just, you have skills

I do not have, you feel magical to me

481

that you can translate a spiritual

experience into a physical thing and

482

then present it well, and sometimes add

a curriculum to it, there's something.

483

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: I know.

484

Track 1: Your byline has

to capture all of that.

485

Of all these little tendrils we've had

out there, do any of 'em resonate at all?

486

Like, are we on any kind of path?

487

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: Well,

I definitely think the interactive

488

and , the things that reference the

connectivity, whether it's Person with

489

spirit or God or person with person and

spirit, you know, that that community

490

of faith individually and together, that

seems to be a very important concept.

491

And then, , you used the word

492

interactive, but , how

are we participating?

493

How are we engaging,

how are we responding?

494

Because, I think that personally

growing up, as a child sitting in

495

a pew during worship, , I was filled

with the sounds of the organ and the

496

familiar hymns and the prayers that

become familiar , and things like that.

497

but was I doing sitting in the

498

pew?

499

And Most of the time I was in a passive.

500

Posture, you know, I was receiving

it or maybe I was singing, but I

501

feel like part of what has shifted

for me is how important it is to

502

engage deeply and intentionally

and,, and across the generations

503

relationally, like all of those things.

504

And so I'm not saying that I don't like

505

a good traditional worship service

506

that is deeply meaningful to me

and As I have been introduced to

507

other ways to worship and engage

community and faith together.

508

Through a barn dance

509

or through

510

energizers at the youth conference

or things that are definitely

511

stretching my comfort zone,

512

I am experiencing faith and

I'm seeing God in a new way.

513

Track 1: So

514

it's ceramics and curriculum for

engaging community and faith.

515

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: Ooh,

516

Track 1: Am I close?

517

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

I think so.

518

Track 1: Uh,

519

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: that.

520

Track 1: it's fine with

me if you don't use it.

521

I, I just wanna be helpful.

522

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

No, I love it.

523

I love that.

524

It feels like it was

only five words or so,

525

you know, like it was really

526

Track 1: Because it's

gotta fit on a banner.

527

It's gotta fit on a business card.

528

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: and

I don't feel like there were words

529

in there that were a hindrance.

530

for folks that are

531

not in a

532

ministry context or deeply engaged

533

in their faith, I feel like

it still could make sense.

534

Track 1: yay.

535

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Thank you.

536

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Say it again.

537

Ceramics and curriculums.

538

Track 1: For engaging community and faith.

539

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127:

Ooh, I like that.

540

Yeah,

541

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

I like that a lot.

542

Track 1: Oh,

543

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: there's,

544

Track 1: give it a try.

545

Ask a few people who know your

546

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: Yes.

547

Thank you.

548

Track 1: Mm.

549

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126: then

that just starts the conversation.

550

Then we can say how,

551

Track 1: Right?

552

Exactly.

553

But I would know how your stuff is unique.

554

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

that's great.

555

Thank you so much.

556

Track 1: We got there.

557

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Yeah.

558

Very

559

Track 1: Thank you for coming.

560

ruth_1_11-14-2023_122127: Thank you

so much for being with us today, Lisa.

561

This is just a joy, and, I'm such

a fan of all the things you're

562

making and I can't wait to see

the next things that are coming

563

,

and please do send us a picture of that communion set

564

lisa-kaufer_1_11-14-2023_132126:

Yes, I will.

565

I will.

566

Thank you,

567

Track 1: Yeah.

568

Thanks for joining us for Created

Creative with Ruth and Dawn.

569

We're so glad that you were here.

570

Please follow us on Spotify and

iTunes, rate and give us a great

571

review and please share us with

your friends how does it end?

572

Yeah, we could have some great tagline.

573

It took us weeks to come up

with a name for the show.

574

We certainly don't have tagline.

575

But go create something.

576

Oh!

577

Go create something.

578

Okay.

579

Great tagline.

580

Let's try that.

581

Awesome.

582

Perfect.

583

Go create something