"Children who grow up in character disordered households do tend to be hyper intuitive, so they don't learn to repress it, because they get their needs met by meeting the needs of their caretakers" Laura Day

Empowering Empaths and Healing After Narcissistic Abuse

In this episode, I share my journal I wrote as a mother to a daughter and her determination to not let her daughter go through Narcissistic Abuse as I did.

In addition I talk to Laura Day, a bestselling author who has spent decades helping individuals develop their intuitive abilities. Day provides insights into intuition, explaining it as non-local perception and as a skill that can be honed.

The conversation further explores the idea of empathic people, often victims of narcissists and how intuition helps them find help and community.

Later, the discussion switches to understanding the logic behind abusive relationships, encouraging victims to see the past as a journey and utilize intuition to help them create a better future.

All Links are on the Podcast Page.

Laura Day Site www.practicalintuition.com

00:03 Introduction and Personal Story

00:25 Letter to My Daughter: Lessons for Life

02:53 Welcome to the Empath and Narcissist Podcast

03:40 Interview with Laura Day: Harnessing Intuitive Abilities

05:18 Understanding Intuition and Its Role in Our Lives

09:09 The Impact of Narcissistic Abuse on Empaths

12:38 Reclaiming Your 'I': Healing from Narcissistic Abuse

20:27 The Role of Mentors in Healing and Growth

25:50 The Healing Power of Parenting and Intuition

26:42 Understanding and Overcoming Abuse

28:30 The Complexity of Narcissistic Relationships

29:55 Taking Responsibility and Learning from Past Relationships

38:57 The Power of Intuition in Navigating Life

45:09 The Role of Trust and Discipline in Strengthening Intuition

51:24 Final Thoughts and Resources for Empaths

I remember when I first discovered that

I was having a girl when I was pregnant.

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I was determined.

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For what happened to me?

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Not happened to my daughter.

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And I said, They have a girl.

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Oh, God.

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I know.

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I have a lot of work.

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I'm rolling up my sleeves.

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And I was just going through

the drawer the other day.

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And I found this letter that I

wrote to my daughter when she was

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a month old for her in the future.

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I love it.

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When you find like these

time capsules of journals.

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So I'm just going to read

to a short bit of it.

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So I wish to be helpful guide for you

through this difficult journey of life.

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With that said, I want to share

some wise words I wrote for myself

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while in a tumultuous relationship.

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These apply to every girl

that the divine has created.

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You are a unique treasure.

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And you are worth it.

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Loneliness is better than

being entrapped by misery.

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If you don't know where our

relationship is going, it's okay to ask.

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There is a man I'll I'll add or women.

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Out in the world who wants

to tell everyone he or she

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is your lover with pride.

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You deserve someone to

love you for who you are.

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Do not let anyone try

and change who you are.

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. At your core.

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Don't let a guy trick

you into asking him out.

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If he is into you, he will

muster up the courage to ask you.

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This obviously could apply for.

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Either sex.

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I'm just writing this because I'm

in a girl's body writing it to

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my daughter, but she may go for

a woman one day who knows, but.

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Caveat aside.

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If a man respects and cherishes you,

he will take you on a romantic date.

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Hanging out is not a date.

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Especially with his friends.

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Actions speak louder than words.

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You have many talents?

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And an interesting life.

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Don't let the lover consume it.

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Just add them to the mix, like a salad.

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And the last one, respect yourself.

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Don't let them guilt

you into doing anything.

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I mean.

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If I had known any of

this was going to happen.

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To me, I would have

loved to have this list.

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So it's a list for you.

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All of you listening, it's

a list for your children.

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It's a list for my children.

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Raven: Welcome back to the empath

and narcissist podcast, spiritual

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healing with human design, spirituality

from trauma and narcissistic abuse.

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Here we are empowering empaths into

their power and authentic self with

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human design after narcissistic abuse.

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It is here as a tool to help you bust

out of the prison of narcissistic abuse.

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of being a victim from narcissistic abuse

and it allows you to be the architect

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for your own joy and peace in your life.

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Subscribe now.

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Today we're talking with Laura Day,

a New York Times bestselling author.

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She has spent nearly four decades

helping individuals, harness and

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develop their innate intuitive

abilities to create profound change.

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Newsweek magazine calls

her the 10, 000 month.

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Psychic, the independent dubbed her the

psychic of Wall Street, A list Hollywood

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stars and Wall Street executive praise

her ability to predict future events,

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as Brad Pitt has said,, I believe in

the gut and I believe in Laura Day.

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And I'm hoping that she can help us

today, , with our goals, using our

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intuition and helping you empath liberate

from the narcissistic abuse in your life,

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you can find Laura and more information

about her at practicalintuition.

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com.

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She has written the books,

Welcome to Your Crisis.

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How to use the power of crisis

to create the life you want,

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how to rule the world from your couch,

practical intuition for success,

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the circle, and practical intuition.

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Gut feeling, the sixth sense,

that hunch, no matter what it's

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called, intuition plays a part in

the decisions we make every day.

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Laura Day shows you how to

unlock the remarkable power

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of your mind in this book.

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All

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Raven: right.

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Welcome.

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Thank you, Laura, for being here.

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Laura: Oh, thank you for having me.

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Raven: I'm really, , very excited.

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I was just getting pulled into

your book, Practical Intuition.

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I was reading it before you popped

on because I think it's so powerful.

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, the thing with us empaths is we

understand here, we talk a lot about

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intuition and how we can find our

intuition and our human design charts.

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But just before we dive into your

backstory, I'd love to ask you,

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what, what is intuition to you?

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Like, how

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Laura: do you define it?

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So intuition is non local perception.

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It's our ability to move our

attention in time and space.

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So when you think of your immediate

perceptions, it's what we all agree on.

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I see the couch in front of me.

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I'm having a conversation

with you on Zoom.

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If we extend that, and I'm having a

conversation, With you without technology

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telepathically over a distance, or if I

am seeing the rest of where you are right

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now without ever having seen it, but

seeing it in my mind's eye, then we're

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in the realm of extended perception.

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Extrasensory perception and intuition,

whatever you want, psychic skills,

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whatever you want to call it.

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, and there's, there is so much

research on the fact that we are

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all perceiving this all the time.

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But of course, we naturally repress

that as children very appropriately.

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So we can agree on a consensus reality.

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Yeah.

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Raven: Or if, you know, you, you

share something with a parent and

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they're like, Oh, that sounds crazy.

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That's not real.

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You must be imagining things.

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And then you start to

suppress it more actually.

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Laura: It's important.

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I, you know, I'm one of

my pet peeves is this.

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Let's make our children more intuitive.

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No, let's make our children reality based.

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Let's make our children a logical.

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Let's make our children.

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Let's keep our children

from being empaths.

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Let's give our children strong ego

structures so they have an "I" before

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those perceptions allow them to feel

someone else's feelings or experience a

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reality that's too above their pay grade.

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I mean, I think it's So

important to contain and repress

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a lot of things in childhood.

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I mean, we, we also repress the

joie de vivre because it's also

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very tied to our aggression.

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You know, we learn to repress all of

this or at least suppress it until

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we have the ego structure in place

where we can use it constructively.

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That's an

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Raven: interesting concept.

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Yeah, because just for instance, I just

immediately thought and this is may

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not go into the realm of intuition.

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So , correct me if I'm wrong, but my

youngest, she sees things in the other

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realms, like she clearly sees them and

she's not making it up because I can

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see her reaction to when she sees it.

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And it's like someone's standing

there, but no one's standing there.

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So I don't want to tell

her she's crazy either.

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But I also don't want her

to be scared of it, right?

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Because then you can really like,

start to feel like, Ooh, right?

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Like

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Laura: engaged with it.

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I mean, I think, , just like

someone's feelings aren't crazy.

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They're their feelings.

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And so if you feel devastated because

you've got the smallest half of

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a cookie, your feeling is valid.

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And so I think that there is a way.

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To entertain perception without

validating it and targeting them in

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that direction because of course it is

your child's goal as a living being to

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have relationships with living people.

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And so, you know, I, I do, we are all born

very open intuitively because we have no

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"I", you know, it is the task of being

a human being to develop a strong and,

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and just ego, but But before that, we are

pure intuition and drive in many ways.

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And, and, you know, I think that we don't,

we don't have to, we can hear our children

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without, without subscribing to it

because we want our children very reality

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based in the reality we all agree on.

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I like

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Raven: that.

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And then I know I was listening to the

other podcasts that you were on and you

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were talking about how this is something

that maybe us empaths feel isolated

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or a bit like there's a grudge that we

weren't heard as a child, that we were so

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sensitive and especially the narcissists

were always like, they're always pushing

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us off like, Oh, you're so sensitive.

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You're so sensitive.

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Like it's a negative thing.

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But finding yourself

back again as an adult.

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Like to re grow that muscle as an

intuitive person that can be a little

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bit daunting because of the judgment.

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What do you think?

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Laura: Well, you, you've brought

up a lot of different things.

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I mean, I think that when, when children

are sensitive in oversensitive, you

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know in that way where their sensitivity

interferes with their resilience

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is what I mean by oversensitive.

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They're oversensitive, usually

from from two sources, either

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neurologically, they're just wired

that way, or because of the injury.

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So of course, if you grow up

in a in a environment where

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People are character disordered.

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You are injured because your parents

are the first your caretakers

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are the first God in reality.

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So you're living in a reality that

doesn't correspond to everybody else's.

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And I, I think that Children who grow

up in character disordered households

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do tend to be hyper intuitive, so they

don't learn to repress it, because they

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get their needs met by meeting the needs

of their caretakers, and because they

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that is way above their understanding.

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Intuition has to be engaged

as a survival skill.

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You know, people who are hyper intuitive

as children are not the next Dalai Lama.

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They are people who are injured and

they've had to do that to survive.

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I think that more than anything,

teaching people who grow up in

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those kinds of environments, and

I was definitely one of them.

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I mean, I was raised by a

narcissist and a borderline clinical

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narcissist, clinical borderline.

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You know, one of the things

that, happens is that , there's

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this always a hidden agenda.

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Which disempowers the person and, but

also makes us a little less reliable

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as partners and as friends, because we

are meeting someone else's needs, but

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we're meeting them to meet our own,

whereas the one of the real practices,

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I think, for healing is to realize that

in a sense, although empathy is highly

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valued because it allows you to be used

by your environment empathy is pathology.

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It doesn't allow you to actually have

a positive impact, a disinterested

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positive impact on the person or

situation you have empathy for.

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So the real, the real practice,

and I've taught my group to say

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this, we say it as a mantra.

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You're controlling.

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So what?

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You're selfish.

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So what?

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You're a bitch.

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So what?

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You're castrating.

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So what?

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You know, on some level

we all have a shadow.

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It's so what?

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And learning to bring our intuition and

attention back to what are our needs?

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What are our goals?

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What are, what is our morality?

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Because a lot of the time when you're

empathic, your morality shifts.

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according to who you're trying to

please, and that is the curse of

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growing up in a disordered environment.

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It doesn't mean you're not moral, you're

highly moral, you're just highly plastic.

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So, you know, it really is and my

next book is really about this.

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It really is about Rehabilitating that

ego and part of that is reclaiming

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intuition and not scouting your

environment to how you can help or give

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or hold on, but engaging intuition toward

those goals give you the life you want.

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Raven: Yeah.

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And I wonder too, then maybe as empaths,

we are mixing up our empathic, like people

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pleasing traits with intuition and kind of

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Laura: calling it that.

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Intuition teaches us how, you know, says,

Oh, you can please this person that way.

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Or you can please this

person this other way.

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I mean, you know I don't consider myself

an empath only because neurologically.

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I'm not wired that way, even though

I'm an intuitive, anxious caretaker.

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So I think I present as an empath,

but actually the, it, it, it's a very

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different it's a different construct.

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I think, I think empaths were never

allowed to have their own feelings.

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And so they live through the feelings

of others, which is not healthy for

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others and not healthy for the empath.

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Empath.

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Yeah.

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And, and I, I think we, we exalt

often qualities that are damaging

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to the person and helpful to others.

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I really, when my students say

I'm an empath, I say, okay, we're

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going to help you with that.

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That is pathology.

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That's, that is also kind of being an

emotional vampire because you should feel

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your own grief, not someone else's grief.

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You should feel your own outrage,

not someone else's outrage.

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And they may be parallel, which

is where you find community.

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You know, when my experience and your

experience have a common voice, we

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find community, but without merging.

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And, and you know, it is you know, I think

that one of the difficulties with being

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raised in a narcissistic household, for

example, is that everyone's an enemy.

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I mean, I remember we used to joke, I

have two siblings who suicided and a

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mother who suicided, but back when I had

siblings who were living, we used to joke,

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you know my little sister was So pretty.

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And my father would say to

me, Oh, Sarah is so pretty.

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Whereas she, he, she, he'd

say to Sarah, Oh, Laura is so

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responsible or Martha's so smart.

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Or, you know, there was this

always making everyone an enemy.

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So you have no anchor and.

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It's so important.

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I think when, when you come from

that situation, because of course,

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when we're raised by people like

that, we attract them as spouses.

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We, you know, we, we, we become , the

shadow of whatever we were raised by.

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And, and I think it's so important

to just be able to make I statements.

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I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, and

to, , Take back your reality that way.

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I want, I believe, I fear, I need,

I hate, I love, I enjoy, you know,

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really just stick, stick with the I

and realize that that that has been

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co opted by somebody else's pathology.

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Raven: Yeah, absolutely.

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And then there's, there's also a

slippery slope of that I, and I think

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we're, what you're teaching to is like

overcompensating for being that like

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lifeless shell of a person, you know,

like regain your ego back, regain your I.

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And then once you find

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Laura: that you were, if you were raised

by a person, you never got an "I", you

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have a little of an "I", but an ego

for your, your, the rudiments of ego

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form in that first six years of life.

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So everything for all of

us is revision after that.

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But, but if there are things in

your life that you haven't achieved,

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whether it's in business or a

relationship or even in your health,

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there are things you haven't achieved.

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Usually that's an ego injury.

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And because we're, we're uniquely

made to achieve what it is we desire.

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I mean, we're, we are pretty

effective beings in a world that's

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not all that hard to figure out.

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You know, that's, that's injury and I

often tell people who are, who are stuck

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on introspection because everyone's

stuck on looking for their trauma.

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I'm like, don't look for your trauma.

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No need to look for your trauma.

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Do something that you want to do.

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Everything that gets in the way

is your trauma because your trauma

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is not your original trauma.

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Your trauma is the ways that you have

now learned to re traumatize yourself.

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Raven: Interesting.

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Yeah, it gets in the way.

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And sometimes I feel like.

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My constant introspection and even

on this podcast like asking the why

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why did it happen because I wasn't

raised by narcissistic personalities

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at all They were very loving and

probably more empathic But I then

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fell prey to one in as my first love

and so then my my journey of why?

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Became almost like the most destructive

damaging thing that ever happened

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to my foundation of people which was

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Laura: interesting But you know, the,

the interesting thing is I do think that

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there is a difference between someone who

is RA raised by narcissists and someone

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who encounter one encounters one older.

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I think when you encounter one

older, you know, yes, you get, you

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get lured in because narcissists.

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and all character disorders

are incredible intuitives.

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They know how to snag you.

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And if you have, if you, if you haven't

grown to the point where you are,

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you, it triggers the, oh, why is this

person so exactly what it is I want?

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You don't, you don't identify

something you've never seen

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before, except intuitively.

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But, But one of the, one of the things

that, does save the adult is there,

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even if you had a perfect childhood,

if you picked a narcissist, there was

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something you wanted to express that

you expressed through that relationship.

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Whereas a child who has been

injured you know, I never form that

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part of their, their ego, they're

repeating an injurious pattern.

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And it is, it is different because

you, one is defended by adult trauma.

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If they have had that ego development

as children, if you haven't had it as

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children, you really are defenseless,

which is why I love self help because.

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I realize that there are paradigms

that are habitual to me, that are

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obscene, that should never have existed.

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And there are people who are doing

it right that I can learn from.

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And I feel like it has been that

lifelong desire to, to learn something

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else, to be outside of my own patterns

that actually has saved my life.

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Yeah.

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Raven: And who are some of those

people that were your mentors in

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the early stages of your healing?

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Laura: Well, I mean, I think Deepak

Chopra who's still a dear friend,

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he and his wife Rita, he was a

huge mentor because he could speak

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the language of my perceptions.

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So he could speak the language of

oneness and mobile attention and

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the way that I see saw the world,

but he grounded it in medicine.

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He grounded it in science.

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He grounded it in ethics and behavior.

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And he's also very, very generous.

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I mean, he, he and Wayne Dyer, but he was

the impetus offered a snotty little 30

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year old to travel and teach with them.

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And back then, you know, I thought

I was the greatest thing on earth,

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because that's what he makes you feel.

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But actually, it was a huge gift to me.

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You know, I was not of that caliber yet.

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And he he he just is

such a wonderful example.

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He he and Rita both lead by example

of their of their generosity.

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So that was That was incredibly helpful.

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Also I was the I, I got a job

as an au pair for my family.

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Cause of course, narcissistic households.

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My father was convinced at, you

know, 14, right after losing my

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mother to suicide, that if I went

to camp, I would lose my virginity.

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So in his wisdom, I got a

job as an au pair in Italy.

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Raven: Okay.

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Tell me what is an au pair.

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I'm too young to know.

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Laura: Like a babysitter.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Or a man who just died

who is wonderful family.

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His name was Anthony Dias Blue.

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He was a food writer, a wine writer.

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And so I really got to experience

like wonderful creative family

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and I'm still friends with their

children and and the family and

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he actually just died last week.

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Wow.

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I intuition, the wonderful thing about

intuition is if you know what you want.

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And what I wanted was to just be okay.

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I didn't have grand, grand dreams.

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If you know what you want,

intuition bumps you right into it.

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It really is an idiot's gift.

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And so I really bumped into these.

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Helpful people, all the writers

about developmental psychology.

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I find really really interesting.

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Some things Fritz Perls Gestalt you

know, I really found, I found teachers

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and intuition helps you do that.

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You know, if you have a goal,

and of course, when we're

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injured, our goals get co opted.

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Our goals are to prove to him that I'm

worthwhile, or to please mommy and daddy

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who are unpleasable, you know, your goals

get co opted, but I was fortunate enough.

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, that intuition gave me possible

goals, not fantasy goals.

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Fantasy goals, you hook on to

fantasy tools and you create fantasy,

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but, but, you know, real goals.

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I wanted to be a writer.

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I wanted to have a family.

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I wanted to be in love.

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I wanted to speak another language like

these wonderful child goals and, and

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then intuition Literally identified

them, not here, go there, but intuition

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works by shifting your automatic pilot.

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And I wrote a book called The Circle,

which, which is the methodology

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for that, which is you have a goal.

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You allow the experience of it,

not in fantasy, you can only

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fantasize about things you know

that you've been exposed to.

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But intuitively you allow,

you begin to notice.

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Things that in yourself, in your

environment, in your interactions,

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and all of a sudden that noticing

expands and you create something.

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And I'm trying to think, and

I had some wonderful teachers.

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You know, I really had I, I try very

hard in my life to assume every child

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is my child because that saved my life,

the kind adults, kind teachers, kind

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neighbors people who Formed community and

without ever speaking about what was going

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on, which, of course, I didn't really

have words for at that age care of it.

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And I think, and it's

also such a privilege.

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You know, I have all of these young

people who have grown up in my house

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who had similar parents, but I was

able to be for them the catalyst that

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other adults were able to be for me.

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Yeah,

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Raven: as a role model

and being there for them.

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It's beautiful.

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Laura: And kids, you know, they need role

models, but they also need backpacks, they

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need cash to take the bus they need the

screen replaced so their explosive parent

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doesn't, you know, hurt them because

they broke the screen of their iPhone,

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like, they're, they're such, the nuts

and bolts are so hard when you're young

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and when you don't have adequate adults.

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And I, think That , it really is

a gift to be in a position where as

413

adults, we do have something to give

those, you know in many ways we heal

414

through healing things in others.

415

I mean, I learned how to care

for myself by being a parent.

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My hu, my my husband has

been a great healer to me.

417

My son has been a great healer to me.

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You know, learning to parent, learning to

co-parent learning, all of those things.

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have been really healing.

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And once again, intuition gives

you those seemingly miraculous out

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of the blue opportunities that you

think, Oh, wow, that saved my life.

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What a miracle.

423

It wasn't a miracle.

424

It was your intuition.

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Your goal was to thrive or survive

or achieve in a certain way.

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And your intuition pulled you

and pushed you and moved you and

427

needled you until you got there.

428

And it does start with allowing

ourselves, allowing our

429

children to voice their goals.

430

And

431

Raven: so what if someone's listening

and they are an adult, they're kind

432

of just trying to reparent their

own selves healing after this.

433

Abuse feeling empty.

434

I have

435

Laura: here the stop one one thing

because one of the here's one of my

436

pet thing like, you know, my as adults.

437

Abuse is when someone kidnaps

you and harms you, that's abuse.

438

Abuse is when we are in

relationships that are damaging as

439

adults, we are partners in that.

440

So the first thing you do is not see

yourself as a victim, see yourself

441

as someone who's made a choice.

442

And you know, unless you are trapped

without a key, you have made a choice.

443

And if you stay in that

relationship and don't even go to

444

a shelter, for example, with your

children, you have made a choice.

445

So again, there is a difference

between a child and an adult.

446

And I think it's really important

that we really see ourselves as part

447

of a dynamic instead of as a victim.

448

Because that is really the

first step in leaving is saying,

449

wow, feels to me like I'm being

abused, but actually I'm staying.

450

And actually I'm proud of this.

451

And there is a reason.

452

We don't do things if we're

not getting things out of them.

453

Raven: Yeah, but wouldn't you say that's

the confusion of the mental abuse is that

454

they convinced you that if you just do

this, right, if you just self care here.

455

Then our relationship will be fine, right?

456

Like, so they're pushing off all of

the responsibility of that relationship

457

working onto that one partner.

458

And they continue to do

their own toxic thing.

459

I don't think So that, you're saying

that's a choice to I don't think

460

Laura: that's quite that easy.

461

And I have been, I was in a very

long narcissistic relationship.

462

You know, relationship with a narcissist.

463

And I don't think it's quite that easy.

464

You are always getting

something out of it.

465

It's not that someone's just cut

you down and part of being able to

466

leave and being able to leave intact

or to some degree intact is to

467

say, Okay, what am I getting here?

468

What am I getting?

469

That I now need to consciously be

willing to give up to save my life or

470

save my soul or save my children or,

you know, or just be in a different

471

situation to have my self respect.

472

What is it that I am getting out of it?

473

And often it is there are ways

that narcissists allow us to cheat.

474

They allow us to not take responsibility

for our own social life or to not take

475

responsibility for our own X, Y or Z.

476

The more that something is your fault.

477

The more you have the power to change

it and, you know people tend to attract

478

people at their same level of injury.

479

So, although a narcissist may

not attract another narcissist,

480

probably won't, there is a, the

same level of injury in the partner.

481

But in a different area.

482

And so taking responsibility for

that, I think, is really is, is

483

a really important thing to do.

484

Also because there are not bad, there

are rarely, not never, but there

485

are really bad guys and good guys.

486

You know, there are, there are people

with different kinds of injuries.

487

That, both parasitically attach,

and it is, it is for healing one,

488

ideally both, but one of those

people do need to take responsibility

489

for their own, their own injury.

490

And, you know, I know that the

narcissist I was with made me feel

491

very special, you know, love bombed

for a long time took over tasks

492

that I didn't want to perform made

themselves invaluable in certain ways.

493

And yes, while cutting me down.

494

But I think that if we look at

relationship in certain ways, we, we give

495

as much as we get in negativity as well.

496

So

497

Raven: from your experience,

what did you get from that?

498

Laura: I actually signed a document,

typical of narcissists, that I'm

499

not allowed to speak about that.

500

So I, you know, I, I think we do get

anyone who's been in a, in a relationship

501

like that gets It's, If you look at where

you were cheating, you know, something

502

sad like no one else will love me.

503

But if you look at where you were

cheating, you weren't, you know,

504

people find ways to live alone.

505

And, you know, where was

it that you were cheating?

506

Because there is always a place it

is people of equal injury attract.

507

Yeah,

508

Raven: I can say from my

experience, I was getting status.

509

I felt like I was, I was.

510

better than my upbringing and I thought

I was climbing the ladder in life.

511

Laura: Yeah.

512

And, and so it is, those are always

the hooks and it's our denial of the,

513

it is my, it is the thing that I think

is very undermining with a lot of the

514

designating titles of pathology to other

people is doesn't give us the power.

515

And we have, we have the power to, to

say, this is no longer worth it to me,

516

or she's gotten the worth and the status.

517

And I'm willing to lose it.

518

Maybe I've learned something

because one of the great things

519

about relationships, Not worth it.

520

Yeah, but even, you know, one of the great

things about relationships, even difficult

521

ones, because I see many things that I got

out of my relationship with a narcissist.

522

And, you know, as someone

who is, codependent.

523

I got, I got a lot of it dishonestly.

524

You know, I got a lot of it, you know,

because I allowed certain things I

525

shouldn't have allowed or gave up certain

things that weren't healthy to give up.

526

But still at that moment, I was

getting what I wanted to get.

527

Of course, there's always more, but

there's always more on both sides.

528

The narcissist isn't getting

what they want to get either.

529

They want to get.

530

a self, they want to feel full,

they want to feel complete,

531

they want to be out of pain.

532

And we can't, we are by nature, any,

any partner is disappointing, because we

533

can't make, we can't fill that emptiness.

534

So I mean, but I think that we, you

know, all human beings are precious.

535

And The narcissist I lived with was

precious to me and there are many

536

beautiful gifts that I received in that

relationship that I still really honor.

537

And, and many ways in which I wish

I had behaved differently, despite

538

if I had had the knowledge of what a

narcissist was, I would have been able.

539

To be more empathic in an appropriate

way you know, I think at the end of the

540

day, and this is the difference between.

541

character disordered people and the

rest of us just general neurotics.

542

At the end of the day, I loathe myself

for my short comics, not for what I

543

didn't get, you know, but for what

I didn't give for where I didn't

544

show up as a fellow human being.

545

And so even in my memory, I, I

really remind myself to treasure

546

the gifts that I did get.

547

In those difficult relationships,

whether it's with my parents doesn't

548

mean that I treasure them and don't

say, Hey, you also messed up big time.

549

But, but, you know, to say, because

to loathe the entire relationship is

550

to load all the growth that you made.

551

in yourself.

552

And that is not, that's not healthy.

553

We go back to, so what?

554

You fell short.

555

So what?

556

You weren't pretty enough.

557

So what?

558

You didn't make enough money.

559

So what?

560

It's like, so it's, it, it, it,

it, those indictments of other.

561

Are really what, when we

accept them, they harm us.

562

It's not a so what, if you wish you

weren't such a bitch, then it's so what?

563

And you know, I agree with that.

564

That's really good information.

565

I'm going to work on that, not

for them, for, for yourself.

566

Raven: Yeah.

567

And if you don't, if you don't kind

of take that flippant mindset as

568

well, that's what also blocks you from

trying again or succeeding or getting

569

up and having that perseverance.

570

Cause you're like so hung

up on like, Oh, I failed.

571

I'm such a loser.

572

Now I can't ever do it ever again.

573

Laura: Right?

574

The wonderful thing is character disorders

tend to attract people who don't feel they

575

have enough of the self unless they're,

it's acknowledged by someone else.

576

So we are a relationship, you know,

when my husband leaves for a week,

577

I lose seven pounds because it.

578

I won't cook for myself.

579

I eat eggs and avocados, which

I like perfectly well, but I'm

580

not going to make a two course,

three course meal for myself.

581

So we don't tend to be alone.

582

We tend to feel that the year or

two we are alone is the most painful

583

thing in the world, but we tend

to be people who find partners.

584

And the trick is not replicate.

585

The old injury through the new partner

and I think in part that does come

586

from again taking responsibility.

587

This is what I got.

588

I really try in every relationship

except for my parental ones

589

where it was their job to give.

590

But in all relationships, I look

for, okay, what was the hook for me?

591

What did I get?

592

And how did I not say thank you?

593

You know, how was I not grateful because

it is in acknowledging what you got that

594

you own it as your own and that you're

also able to let go of the dynamic of that

595

person was a whatever your description is.

596

Yeah.

597

And I

598

Raven: really think a lot of the

communities that we follow on, at least

599

when I'm on social media, you know,

going on to do the engagement, to post

600

my thing about the podcast, it just

pulls me into another vortex of like

601

constantly angry and the victim and

like, you know, if they didn't, , want

602

you to , speak your about them and

they should have treated you properly.

603

And it's always kind of this like

black or white scenario of like.

604

I'm always the victim.

605

I have no, like I'm perfect.

606

I did not do anything wrong in

the relationship and they're the

607

ones who are the evil people.

608

And I've always been like, so icky about

that concept because I do cherish my ex,

609

even though he was really horrible to me,

, but I'm so happy he's finally happy now.

610

Like I know where he's landed and.

611

How that all turned out

and I'm, I'm happy for him.

612

I don't have any ill will and I think

people can still so easily get stuck

613

in that ill will and then they can't

move forward themselves in life.

614

Laura: Yeah.

615

I mean, what is the saying about anger?

616

Anger is poisoning the well

that, you yourself have to drink

617

from and, and . That is true.

618

And, , there are always two sides.

619

If you listen to the narcissist, they

would say, well, this person did this to

620

me and this person failed me in this way.

621

And this

622

Raven: person abandoned him.

623

And that's totally my fault.

624

, Laura: and we tend to listen,

we are our own blind spot.

625

And it again, people have equal

pathology tend to match themselves.

626

So my pathology, my diverse

pathology, but equal pathology,

627

matched, , the partner's pathology.

628

And thus, this was born, but it is the

job of the adult to take every experience

629

and make something better out of it.

630

And, you know, you're

more evenhanded than I am.

631

I have no idea what's happened to my ex.

632

I have no desire

633

Raven: to know.

634

I did not desire it at all, but

his second ex reached out to me

635

because I have the platform and I

was like, kind of scared at first.

636

I thought he was like going to do

something else to me through her.

637

But anyways, yeah.

638

Anyway, I did not ask for that.

639

I did not search for that.

640

Laura: The sad thing is that many of these

people are actually extraordinary people.

641

They're just injured, but they're actually

often smart and funny and magical and

642

warm and so many extraordinary things

that we actually got from being in

643

relationship with them that we learn.

644

I think sometimes the difficulty after

a character disorder is to learn how

645

to live kind of grounded real life

that's not, you know, supersonic, that's

646

not always, you know, ultimate rush.

647

Magic, but to, but to value the

peace that comes from an ethically

648

lived mundane, you know, every day

life without all of the artifice.

649

And you know, again, I, the,

the best, the, the best path,

650

and really the intuitive path.

651

Is to be responsible for self and after

the age of about 10, you really are you

652

have you have the perceptual machinery

to begin to make different choices.

653

And, you know, I often I mean, as I

said, I come from a family where I am

654

really the only siblings who survived.

655

I'm the only survivor.

656

Oh my gosh.

657

It and and I I do ask myself because

I'm a teacher also and my my job is

658

to make sure that my students survive

that they thrive, and I do it through

659

teaching intuition how how they can find

what they need in the world, even if

660

they seem to live in a complete desert.

661

And , I do believe that it was the

profound, before I had an ego, the

662

profound desire to connect, the profound

willingness to connect, and kind of

663

blessedly not being the golden child,

not being the one who was connected

664

with, or exalted And having to find

that in my world I had a, as an aside

665

when COVID started, I was in London, my

husband's a screen and TV writer and we

666

were, he was running a show in London.

667

So I was in quarantine in London

and I had just the beginning

668

of a little online community.

669

But I had a newsletter and a big

newsletter list and I said to my husband,

670

you know, I've made a lot of money

over the years off of all of the, you

671

know, courses and books and blah, blah.

672

I said, I'm going to let people

in my group know that if they

673

need their rent paid or diapers or

whatever , that they can email me

674

and I'll try to take care of it.

675

And he said to me, don't do that.

676

You are going to be so crushed because

you're going to have so many demands,

677

and it's going to break your heart

and people are going to get angry.

678

And as usual, even though he's a very

wise man, I did not listen to him.

679

And I put it in my newsletter, email

me, anybody who needs anything,

680

I will do my best, no promises.

681

And my husband was right.

682

I was overwhelmed, except people had

misread the email, and they thought I

683

was asking for donations for people in

need, and I had an overwhelming response.

684

I forget how much I allocated, I allocated

like 15, 000 or 20, 000, and I have a

685

pretty big list, so that wasn't a lot of

money to cover that list, but people's

686

needs were kind of Basically, people

couldn't get masks, people couldn't get

687

diapers people, you know, couldn't pay

their rent, or they had no way of getting

688

food, or a lot of a lot of children

who depended on school meals, you know,

689

their families needed extra food for

school meals that they got in school.

690

Overwhelming response from this community

people were paying each other's rents.

691

There was one woman who had

to leave an abusive situation.

692

She left literally in her yoga clothes.

693

One amazing person in our group

bought her a whole new wardrobe

694

and new tools for her work.

695

You know, people sent her, you know,

money and this is before Venmo, I guess

696

they pay pal, I don't even remember.

697

And, and, you know, people found ways

to, we had a first responder who, who

698

couldn't get medication that she lived in,

I think, Queens Village and the doorman.

699

Wouldn't bring the medication

up, but nobody was allowed in.

700

So she had no way we had another

first responder who did not have COVID

701

who said, Oh, I, I am an authorized

person to be around, picked up her

702

medication, which someone else paid

for, along with like bought bath

703

salts and pop tarts and whatever.

704

And you know, vitamin C drink.

705

And brought it to her door, and

we had incredible know each other.

706

And I really realized,

this is what saved me.

707

And that's what intuition allows you

to do because you can also find those

708

people who will take advantage of you

or harm you, which was really mostly

709

not what I experienced which for an

unsupervised child is pretty miraculous.

710

Unfortunately, my siblings were not

as lucky, but or as intuitive, but,

711

but I really, I realized there,

we all live in a different world.

712

I live in a, in an apartment

building and each person in this

713

building lives in a different world.

714

And what intuition helps you to do is

move your gaze just that tiny bit where

715

there's a whole new world in front of you.

716

Raven: I love how your book

guides people through that.

717

You have exercises, right?

718

Because that's what I was going

to ask you is like, how do we now

719

strengthen our intuition to trust it?

720

Because that's another huge question.

721

I don't trust myself now.

722

Laura: Trust yourself.

723

You should document it.

724

Trust something else.

725

I'm not big on trust.

726

You, what you do with intuition is

you, you train it, you discipline,

727

you train it by having goals, you

discipline it by not, every time your

728

intuition, because your intuition

can give you more information about

729

something miserable that's going , that's

possibly going to happen at some time.

730

So you want to really use discipline.

731

To, to look in the direction of

what is possible and not look in

732

places that are , rabbit holes.

733

One of my favorite posters I've ever made

for Instagram was rabbit holes are not

734

even good if you're a rabbit, you know,

you're not want to go down a rabbit hole.

735

All of my books are workshops.

736

So all of my books are really made

to be used by people or companies

737

or in relationship or by therapists

or by physicians to actually

738

train their own intuition and

to train the people around them.

739

But it really does start with.

740

You know, what is your goal?

741

And what are you noticing?

742

And how do you document that?

743

And where have you documented

accurate things about the future

744

you had no other way of knowing?

745

And what begins to happen

is you begin to form a map.

746

So I have all of these journals all

around my house with these things

747

that come out of, Left field.

748

Not the normal thoughts.

749

Believe me, if your intuition is

telling you you're going to die

750

in a fiery crash, believe me, you

will not die in a fiery crash.

751

Intuition tells you things that

are accurate and actionable.

752

They don't tell you things

you can't do anything about.

753

Your subconscious represses that.

754

Your neuroses are not

intuitions, they're neuroses.

755

They're very different.

756

Intuition will say, why are

you going for a medical degree?

757

Medi you know, really making you feel

bad, even though everyone in the family

758

is a doctor in internal medicine.

759

Well, when my father was a doctor

in internal medicine, in the 70s

760

and 60s, he was making over a

quarter million dollars a year when

761

that was a huge amount of money.

762

Now they start at, what, 54, 000

and they have loans to pay back.

763

Yeah.

764

Intuition begins to push you in

directions, make you uncomfortable,

765

and then the skilled person, the

responsible intuitive, does some research.

766

Oh, wow, there's a glut

in medical schools.

767

Oh, wow, there's a trend toward

insurance based medicine.

768

Oh, wow.

769

Oh, let me, let me check logically out

the information that intuition is giving

770

me, because there are usually the seeds.

771

And But I really love this

for beginning intuitives.

772

I really love this circle for because

it engages intuition in your goals for

773

for people who are interested in just

wowing blowing their own minds like,

774

Oh, I thought about I did the telepathy

exercise and the person actually called.

775

I really recommend how to rule

the world from your couch.

776

They're all complete.

777

They're all complete workshops, but

also on Instagram every morning.

778

I mean, I'm taking a month off till

February 7th, but usually every

779

morning and sometimes every night,

depending on what time zone I'm in.

780

I just go on live and I have Three coins

that are numbered one, two, and three.

781

Everyone has three questions

or goals written down at home.

782

I pick a coin.

783

I don't look at it to rule out telepathy.

784

We all do a reading first for ourselves.

785

And again, we don't know which goal

we're, we're doing a reading on.

786

And then we do it for someone,

a stranger in the group.

787

And it's uncanny when you realize how

much bullshitting people is stupid because

788

we know, we don't know consciously,

but talk about trust, your subconscious

789

will go, wow, that person's great, but I

don't trust them because they're lying.

790

People know lies.

791

And that goes also, you know, part of

the problem, going back to narcissistic

792

dynamics, part of the problem in

a narcissistic relationship is you

793

subscribe to a truth because you have

to, you want to believe that truth,

794

but subconsciously, you know, That

there's no foundation that it's all

795

based on on smoke and mirrors and lies.

796

And so you can never really effectively

engage because if something isn't

797

real, you can't pick it up and

use it to create anything with.

798

So, and I, I really tough on my,

on my, especially on my Instagram

799

group and on my, my boot campers,

which is what I call my, when I

800

train people in intuition, which I do

once a year, I'm very tough on them.

801

I said, do not magicalize.

802

You know, do not, magic is having an

idea, getting funding for it, getting

803

people on board with it, creating a

product that people want, building

804

a life, building a family, falling

in love, protecting your health.

805

Magic is in the mundane and

people tend to magicalize.

806

And then again, you're working with

things that don't exist and they

807

create things that don't exist.

808

Great for a fiction writer,

not great for a life.

809

Yeah.

810

Raven: Unless you want a really

great, you know, New York

811

Times bestseller fiction book.

812

Yeah.

813

Yeah.

814

Well, that's amazing.

815

I'm, I'm going to get the

circle book cause that sounds

816

like a great beginner, right?

817

First book.

818

Laura: It's a great first

book, but you have to do it.

819

One thing I will say about my

books is they're not reading books.

820

They are doing books because this

is one of my favorite posters

821

I ever made for Instagram.

822

You cannot think outside the box.

823

You are the box.

824

So it is so important to engage in

discipline when you're doing something

825

that's outside the box because

someone else has done it for you.

826

You have to use discipline.

827

It's the only way to use a ritual, to

use a habit, to break an old pattern.

828

And when you do that, even

a tiny one, miracles occur.

829

Yeah,

830

Raven: I 100 percent agree with that.

831

That's amazing.

832

Laura, that's, I'm just gonna leave

it at that for everyone to reach

833

out to you and get a hold of you.

834

All your links will be in the show notes.

835

Grab your books, whatever book

you desire there, and I really

836

appreciate you being here.

837

Laura: Well, thank you so much for

838

having me.

839

Thank you so much for tuning into the

end, this podcast episode, and being

840

an empath member here in the community.

841

Raven: If you want to grab a free copy

of my new book, Empath's Guide to Rising

842

Strong, a human design guidebook, and a

mini personalized human design reading,

843

Click the link in the description.

844

Be sure to listen to the empath and

narcissists audible book, or you

845

can grab your paperback on Amazon.

846

It is a profound exploration of

my journey and healing providing

847

you with tools for healing as well.

848

The link is in the show notes.

849

Losing time, I'm fading fast I just

wanna make it last Try to let go of

850

the past I close my eyes, embrace the

blast Sleepless nights and headaches

851

stack Restlessness to hell and back

What's my purpose, what do I grab?

852

A slippery surface, a heart attack

And sometimes you just gotta believe

853

There's something that'll give you

relief There's something that'll

854

have what you need What you need