Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers, as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer reflect on their experience rewatching Babylon 5 as adults and the impact the show and this podcast have had on their lives.

Who Are You? will return! Join Laura and Xhafer starting December 11th, 2024 on this feed as they begin their coverage of Battlestar Galactica 2004. If you've enjoyed the show so far, we hope you will join us and invite new or returning BSG fans on the journey.

Hello and welcome to Who Are You?

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This has been a Babylon 5 podcast hosted

by two people who met on the internet

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haphazardly on a Facebook group.

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Decided to host a podcast together and

have become friends over the course

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of that podcast, talking about a show

that's very important to them from their

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childhood, Babylon five, I'm Jafar.

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Laura: And I'm Laura.

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Xhafer: And I guess the last time

I was going to say that normally

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was actually an episode or two ago.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Did you, did you realize it then?

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Xhafer: No, no, I did not.

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I thought I was going to do a normal one.

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And then I was here in the

moment and I did a thing.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: Oh, close enough though.

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Yeah, we're here.

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This is episode 150.

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Laura: hmm.

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You carefully crafted and designed our

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Xhafer: yes, a hundred percent.

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The schedule was geared towards our last

episode of Babylon five being number 150.

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It will not work out that

way for Battlestar Galactica.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Well, you know, you take

them when you can get them.

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Xhafer: yeah, it's fun.

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It was a thing.

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It was, is the kind of thing

where I looked at it and I went,

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I think we're close enough.

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Where we can make this happen.

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Originally we were going to do lost tales.

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Even, I think I thought it was still

three parts at one point and I had lost

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tales, one, two, three, um, and there to

make it one 50, we added movie breaks.

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We, we, we did a bunch of stuff

to kind of get us to this point.

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And part of that was because

one 50 is a nice big number.

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And part of that is kind

of delaying it a bit.

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Um, this is sad.

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I mean, we obviously at

this point, we are friends.

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Laura: For sure.

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You're one of my best friends.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: you're one of my best friends too.

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We talk a lot.

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We talk a lot on pod and we talk

in very careful conversations

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because we know there's a bunch of

strangers on the internet listening.

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But we also talk outside of pod, um,

which was something when we first started

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this podcast thing, I was very wary

about not because I didn't want to talk

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to you, but because I thought part of

the reason to listen to this podcast

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was the novelty of getting to hear

two strangers get to know each other.

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And I was just like, Oh, what if

I learned something really cool

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about Laura and we find out we

have something in common off pod.

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Laura: Right.

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Then are you keeping

something from the listener?

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Have you destroyed your own premise?

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Xhafer: Is that a tragedy

in a weird little way?

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Like, is that a sadness to not have

that moment be a genuine thing that

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was recorded because as much as

like, let's talk about art, right.

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And I'm thinking, I've been thinking

a lot about this last couple of

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days because of that podcast I just

listened to about the guy who listened

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Laura: The one about Fight Club?

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Xhafer: because here's the

thing is that is, there's like

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different types of movies, right?

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Right?

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Like there's, there's feel good movies

that you watch to just be entertained.

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There's movies that

you watch that are art.

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Right.

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And, and one of the things that makes

those movies different is the emotional

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space and the experiential space.

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Right.

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And that podcast was an experience.

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And I think, man, it must be so

cool because podcasting is very

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unique and that it's a lot like.

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Painting and like, there are

famous painters where you can see

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their stuff everywhere, but there

are a million painters on earth

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doing art that you'll never see.

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And podcasting is a lot like that.

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There's a million podcasts that

you're never going to listen to.

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You know, the, the best podcast

on earth statistically has

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less than a hundred listens.

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You

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Laura: Yeah.

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Mm-Hmm.

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Xhafer: um, it's, it's,

it's that kind of nuance.

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And I think we did something fun and

new and interesting in the space.

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Despite us being a show about 90s sci fi.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Which those are quite,

quite common these days.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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There's a, there's a

million 90s sci fi podcasts.

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There's a couple dozen Babylon five

podcasts and I enjoy them and a handful

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of them are doing novel fun things to both

gray 17 and Babylon five for the first

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time, having people watch this classic

iconic show that's so foundationally

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important to the history of television

for the first time is really interesting.

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And that's what they did.

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And that's what makes

them unique and novel.

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What we did was our new experience.

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Our first time was not with the show,

but in getting to know each other,

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Laura: Yeah.

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Flip the script a little bit.

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Xhafer: Yeah, I think, I think we

did something fun and interesting.

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And like I said, you're

one of my best friends.

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I really appreciate

everything that you've done.

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You and all of our group that

we've kind of got going these

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days, bring into my life.

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Um, I think having to sit down and

have a conversation, especially

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in the beginning with a complete

stranger so regularly forces.

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Introspection and growth in

a way that is very unique.

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And I don't want to say difficult

cause never felt hard, but

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Laura: I mean, there are moments

that are hard when you're

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confronting something different

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Xhafer: yeah.

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Laura: than you have before.

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Xhafer: And also it's

like a stability thing.

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You know, we record, we don't have

like a set recording time every week.

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I think regular listeners to the

podcast would know that we've

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made comments about, Oh, we're

recording at a weird time for us.

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Stuff like that.

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Laura: Yeah.

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We're so behind.

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We had to record something.

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That sort of thing.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: Yeah, but also like we've been

through some shit personally, and a lot

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of it has not made it to the podcast.

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Um, and I,

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Laura: of, some of the early

stuff, especially I think.

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Xhafer: yeah, and I'm not expecting

you to talk about anything you

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don't want to talk about right now.

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That's not.

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Now I'm not interested in that.

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I mean, I think eagle eyed listeners

uh, I went through a divorce in the

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first couple of months of this podcast.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: Um, it was a very weird, difficult

time of my life and I was not a happy

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person for a lot of the first couple of

months of doing this at the very least.

136

Um, I even mentioned, like, I went back

and listened to our first episode a couple

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of weeks ago to kind of prep for this.

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And I even said the words,

my wife in that episode.

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And I was just like, Like my heart sank

for a minute because it was so jarring for

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me to use that word at that time and think

about everything that I've been through.

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And I'm very happy now,

to be absolutely clear.

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Um, I, I did a lot of therapy.

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I know I make the joke

often, men would rather.

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I I've done a lot of self searching.

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I'm in a long term, happy, committed

relationship with my partner, Beth,

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who has become part of this podcasting

family as well, which is also so cool.

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Laura: It is so cool.

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She's great.

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We love

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Xhafer: she is great.

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I do love her.

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I told her that I loved her and

gave her a big kiss on the forehead.

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Like right before we started recording,

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um, because I'm in, so just personally,

I'm in a lot better space now and

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it's, I don't know that I'll ever

be able to go back and listen

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entirely to that first season.

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Laura: I, I feel the same way.

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Like, I don't, I don't remember

where it occurred in time.

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And we mentioned it to the

listeners, I believe that.

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early in our show, I had a pregnancy loss

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: and I couldn't tell you what

those episodes around then were about.

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I have no idea.

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Like that is, and that too is when

Aaron took over a lot of the edit.

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He took over what was going to be my,

my job to edit completely because I had

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fallen apart a little bit, but I don't

think it made it to the pod either.

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That was actually when

I had started pursuing.

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Maybe going back for my

PhD was right before that.

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And so I had a lot of like horrific guilt

feelings about like, I had, I had found

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out that I was unexpectedly pregnant.

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I thought I was going to

go start this PhD program.

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I knew I couldn't, and

then I lost the pregnancy.

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And, and that's, that's a lot of

weird things to, to grapple with and

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guilt about feeling like I wasn't

excited about this and then I lost it.

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And.

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It was a, a lot to confront

and I don't know that I was

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my best podcaster self then.

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Xhafer: I,

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Laura: if I was good, good

friends and good to listen to.

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Xhafer: I mean, it, it takes time to heal

and takes time to process things and to

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understand, and a podcasting schedule is

not something that really allows time.

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You know,

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Laura: Yep.

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Xhafer: we've been very, very regular.

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Have we missed an episode?

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Laura: I don't think

we've missed an episode.

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We've had some that maybe came out

with like, not our favorite edits.

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Xhafer: Yeah, there were a couple

of rushed ones for sure here and

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Laura: Uh huh.

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Xhafer: Um, but I mean, that's a monument.

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I think honestly, all the stuff going on

in our lives is the reason why we take a

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couple of weeks off in between seasons.

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Cause we just needed time

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: and that started as that.

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And it turned into something that

I kind of really like because.

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It's not, it's not, I

miss our conversations

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Laura: Yeah, for sure.

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Xhafer: And that's something

that kind of forces that in.

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And it forces me to come back with

a little bit of a refreshed energy

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to want to do what we're doing.

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Laura: Mm hmm.

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Xhafer: And so there's

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Laura: It's a breather.

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Like, sometimes I, I need a, a moment

to take a break from the schedule

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of, you know, need to watch episode,

need to make notes on episode, need

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to find time to sit down and have

the conversation about the episode.

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Um, I always feel fresh when

we come back from a break.

209

Like you just had a big long vacation and

I was so excited to get to sit back down

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and do this because I'd had a few weeks

and I was like, man, I miss my friends.

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I just want to talk to my friends.

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Xhafer: Yeah,

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: for sure.

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Um, it's such an important, it was

such an important and stable part of

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my life in a time where nothing was

important and nothing was stable.

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Laura: for me right now, sorry.

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Xhafer: Oh yeah.

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Oh no, no.

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I mean, no, it's the same thing now.

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Cause life is difficult right now.

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PH it's a whole transition

for you and your life.

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Like I'm telling you about these things.

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So, um,

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Laura: I mean, I like

everyone at the university.

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Like I feel very blessed that the

PhD students are very collegial.

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None of the faculty seem to have like

secret wars with each other or anything.

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I mean, I suppose that I might find

something out eventually, but I,

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I feel like those things come to a

forefront pretty quickly, usually.

230

know, they're, they're all great people

to hang with, um, but it's so much change.

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It's such a big place compared to

kind of what I'm used to in my mind.

232

And some days I just feel very lost and

adrift and you know, there's, it's not

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like when you're at the PhD level problems

of like, Oh, I can't make this thing work.

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Like you can go to your professor, but

they don't necessarily have the answer.

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They, they can point you like,

well, maybe you need to try this

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or maybe we can figure this out

together, but they don't know it.

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There's nobody who has

the answers anymore.

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So I feel like I'm just this little

thing floating along in the breeze,

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trying to figure out where I'm going.

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Uh, And if at least, you know, every week

or so I'm sitting down, I know I have,

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I have The show I'm going to watch, and

I'm going to talk to my friends about it.

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And I, I have that

anchor in the, the wind.

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Xhafer: It's so important.

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Um, I, I, I know I would have been

okay without this podcast, but I

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think this podcast helped me heal

very personally and I don't know how

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privately it's hard to say it's recorded.

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Like someone could listen and go tell

me, especially with the benefit of

248

retrospect, you know, um, but how

much this podcast, how important this

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has been into keeping me a stable

person and in turn a happy person.

250

So thank you.

251

Thank, thank you for posting on Facebook.

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Three and a half years ago saying you'd

lost the original partner of this podcast

253

and you wanted to do Babylon five.

254

Uh, And we've said it a number of times,

but Ben, thank you for seeing that going,

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Oh, Hey, Jafar's watching Babylon five

right now, commenting and tagging me.

256

Because without that, we wouldn't have

started this and without starting this.

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My life is different in ways that

I don't really care to think about

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because they're, it's not as good.

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Laura: I mean, we've, we've grown

both of us, our friend sets.

260

I know some of them, I have absorbed

your friends and some of them, we've

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just made random friends together.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: But well, and you've absorbed some

of my friends, at least my husband, right?

264

So, it's,

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Xhafer: The Jeremy too.

266

I've, I've

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Laura: that's true.

268

Xhafer: conversations

with him at some point.

269

He was more definitely you're the

one who brought him onto this.

270

You

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Laura: That's true.

272

He's in the same, like, Sort of sci

fi circle friend set, but we had a

273

different, like, yeah, I, I get that.

274

Um, it's, it's really enriched my life.

275

Xhafer: yeah, same.

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Laura: people all over the

country now that I talk to.

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And I feel like we're good friends,

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: we haven't met each other in

person, you know, you and I have met

280

in person now, and several of your

friends, and of course, we met Victor

281

from Divinia Media and Television

282

Xhafer: I have not met Victor in person.

283

Laura: oh, that's right, I met him,

284

Xhafer: Yeah.

285

Laura: I forgot, because we were

both at that Star Trek Las Vegas,

286

Xhafer: Yeah, I just didn't see him.

287

Yeah.

288

Laura: crazy.

289

But I mean, we will see him in

person again soon, for sure.

290

And I, it's so strange that, you know,

when, when our parents were this age,

291

it wasn't as easy to have these kinds

of friendships all across the country.

292

Like you had to be in the same physical

space at some point to, and to develop

293

something and then maintain it.

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And we went a whole,

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Xhafer: don't exist for them.

296

Laura: yeah, we went like a whole year

being friends before we met in person.

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Xhafer: More than I want to

298

Laura: than, but probably, I don't know.

299

Xhafer: what we started.

300

Like, so I know we, like a couple

of weeks ago was the anniversary

301

of the release of the podcast.

302

Right.

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And we had started

recording months in advance.

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Laura: true.

305

Yeah, that's

306

Xhafer: and I think our first conversation

307

Laura: Yeah.

308

Okay.

309

Xhafer: didn't meet until.

310

August 2022,

311

Laura: you're correct.

312

Xhafer: when I was walking, Beth and I

were at STLV, we had gotten our badges

313

and you were in a line and I walked past

you and I'm like, I think that was Laura

314

Laura: You were right.

315

Yeah.

316

Xhafer: and best I'll like, then

turn around and go say hi, dummy.

317

Laura: Yeah, I was just like making

friends with random strangers in

318

line because my husband wasn't

flying out for another day.

319

And so I was just waiting in line

by myself talking to some guy.

320

Yeah,

321

Xhafer: crazy.

322

Laura: it was crazy.

323

And then you brought a whole

Bunch of people from Detroit

324

this last year, and I got

325

Xhafer: That was

326

Laura: more in person friends.

327

Xhafer: Yeah.

328

You've met my sister.

329

Laura: I've met your sister.

330

Yeah.

331

Xhafer: I would not have put

money on that ever happening.

332

Even,

333

Laura: to see her very much.

334

Cause I think they got sick.

335

Right.

336

Xhafer: she got COVID, so she spent

most of STLV in her hotel room.

337

Laura: Yeah.

338

Xhafer: And then her boyfriend was fine

and testing negative and was wearing

339

a mask around and being very careful

and not hanging out with people.

340

Um, but was at least trying to enjoy

his time off a little bit in a, as

341

safe and reasonably as he could.

342

Laura: Yeah.

343

Is this, it's just crazy

344

that we pulled this off.

345

Xhafer: Right.

346

It doesn't feel real sometimes.

347

Laura: It doesn't feel real.

348

And I think, gosh, was, was it prompted by

the anniversary the other day that Victor

349

said some very nice things on the discord.

350

Xhafer: I think it was prompted by

a bit on LTO that was not recorded

351

Laura: Oh, okay.

352

Okay.

353

Xhafer: when we were talking about

stuff beforehand, just about like

354

the crazy happenstance of everything.

355

Because if you hadn't recognized his

car talk with Martok shirt, he would

356

not be podcasting with us right now.

357

It's like a very clear domino effect

to like, bring him into the LTO.

358

Uh, And that's the first domino,

is you turning around and

359

going, wait, Kurtok with Martok?

360

I'd followed that guy on Facebook.

361

And I don't even think

you knew it was him,

362

Laura: No, I just thought maybe it

was a guy with a car talk with Martok

363

shirt and then it was actually Victor.

364

Xhafer: Yeah, it's so funny.

365

Ben's been following, I think I've

told this to Vic at some point, Ben's

366

been following Dominion Media and

367

Laura: Yeah.

368

Yeah.

369

Xhafer: he was like one of the

ground level, like meme purveyors

370

of Dominion Media and Television.

371

Back when it first was getting

started, he happened upon it

372

and he introduced me to it.

373

Um, and it's just like, it's crazy how

like, It went from a guy whose memes

374

you were laughing at to someone you

have a group chat with and regularly

375

Laura: Huh.

376

It is so weird.

377

Xhafer: Yeah.

378

That's the internet.

379

It's crazy.

380

Just like you're exactly right to talk

about our parents generation in it.

381

Like when I think about my dad's friends,

they were like his frat brothers.

382

Right.

383

And that was just like his friend

group that that was that he had met

384

the people he was going to meet.

385

He had made friends with them

and he was good with that and

386

living such a different life.

387

Laura: Yeah.

388

I'm happy to, to make jokes with

an internet stranger and then just

389

be like, and you're my friend now.

390

Xhafer: Yeah, right.

391

A

392

Laura: we're friends, right?

393

Yeah.

394

Cool.

395

Cool.

396

Xhafer: Yeah, it's so cool.

397

And I mean, I've known Ben a very

long time at this point to bring, you

398

know, him in to introduce you guys

Gloria and Beth and the whole crew.

399

Um, you know, just to name drop everyone.

400

It's like, it's just, it's so cool.

401

It's so, God, I feel like I'm spending

a lot of time tooting our own horn

402

about how great everything is for us.

403

Um, but it's all.

404

It exists.

405

It's this thing, it's a community

and it's not just like the

406

people that I personally know.

407

Like if we were to ever roll into

a live show town and God fucking, I

408

don't even want to think about that.

409

That's so much fucking work.

410

Logistics is a fucking nightmare.

411

Um, but like if there was ever a

situation where I were to run into

412

someone who is a listener of the podcast

from discord and they'd be like, Oh,

413

Hey, I'm, I would lose my fucking

414

Laura: me too.

415

Xhafer: That would be the best

thing that happened to me that

416

day, regardless of anything else.

417

Probably there might be one

or two things, but like,

418

Laura: I'm not sure what it

says about me, but I would

419

immediately consider you my bestie.

420

I would be like, oh my god,

421

Xhafer: Oh, we're hugging.

422

I'm a hugger.

423

A hundred percent.

424

Laura: Exactly.

425

Xhafer: I feel like it's so nice

to actually meet you in person.

426

It's crazy.

427

And it's just like, I would

not know your real name

428

Laura: Yeah.

429

Yeah.

430

Xhafer: and you would know my voice,

even though we have never spoken.

431

Laura: yeah.

432

Xhafer: gotta be fucking weird.

433

Laura: The, the parasocials

they call it, I think.

434

Xhafer: yeah.

435

And I mean, we've gotten to chat with

Adam and Ben of Greatest Generation and

436

It's I think about their relationship

with their podcasting audience, being

437

a member of that podcasting audience.

438

Laura: Yeah.

439

Yeah.

440

Xhafer: like interacting with them on

a more personal level and having actual

441

conversations with them and stuff.

442

And then like.

443

I think about that for me, and it's weird.

444

And, and then I think about their

interaction, especially early interactions

445

with me, and it's exactly the same.

446

And I know that like they would, they, the

way they feel about me was the, is the way

447

I just like, I'm so grateful you're here.

448

It's so nice to finally meet you,

but also like our relationship has

449

been entirely one sided for you.

450

Like you have interacted with me for

hours of listening and I am having my

451

first conversation with you right now.

452

And that's a very weird,

liminal kind of head space.

453

Um,

454

Laura: Mm hmm.

455

Xhafer: yeah.

456

So I, I, I guess I appreciate them

more, but also I don't want to

457

talk to them anymore because I, I

458

Laura: don't want to be a burden to them.

459

I don't want to like, you don't,

you don't need to remember me.

460

Like, you know, you've got all these

other things you gotta do and people

461

you gotta charm like I'm charmed.

462

You can go on like,

463

Xhafer: Yeah.

464

You've done your time.

465

You've paid your penance for my

listenership uh, more, more than once

466

over by agreeing to give us a bump.

467

Speaking of which this is the

worst segue I've ever done.

468

I was looking at the analytics of

our episodes cause I was curious.

469

Um, do you want to take a guess for

what our highest listened episode is

470

outside of the pilot, which is always

going to be the most listened to episode?

471

Laura: It's gotta be the

fugitive with Adam Ika, right?

472

Xhafer: A hundred percent.

473

It is.

474

Laura: Mm-Hmm.

475

Xhafer: Do you want to guess by a

percentage how much more popular that

476

episode is than the one we did with Ben?

477

Laura: Oh no.

478

Oh,

479

Xhafer: was shocked

480

Laura: Uh, Percentage.

481

Xhafer: just because the subject matter.

482

Um, but it's, it's a disparity.

483

Laura: Um, well, and, and Adam also got

the benefit of the novelty of it, of he

484

was our first of the greatest generation.

485

So,

486

Xhafer: I know they're never going

to listen to this because this

487

would probably be a fight for not a

fight, but I could see them talking

488

like a little joke and back and

489

Laura: Yeah.

490

Jokey jokes digs at each other.

491

Um.

492

50%?

493

Xhafer: It's not that much,

494

Laura: Okay.

495

Xhafer: but it is 35.

496

Laura: okay.

497

I was, the 30 was the next

number I was going with.

498

Wow.

499

Okay.

500

Hmm.

501

Xhafer: I know we don't talk

about like listenership statistics

502

at any point either on the pod.

503

Laura: Yeah.

504

I'm not, I don't need that.

505

Xhafer: yeah, but,

506

Laura: You can share now.

507

You

508

Xhafer: Yeah, I mean, we

just hit a big milestone.

509

We just hit 40, 000 total

listens, which is insane,

510

Laura: That is insane.

511

I, I'm trying to put it into like, okay.

512

That's like four Tahlequahs

at the time I grew up there.

513

Like people, if you talk people

514

Xhafer: right?

515

Laura: not individual people.

516

Those are lessons.

517

Okay.

518

Yeah.

519

That's really neat.

520

Xhafer: Yeah, like if each one

of those is an hour, right?

521

Each listen for easy math.

522

And we were to equate that with people

watching Babylon five, people have

523

listened to our podcast or the equivalent

of 307 complete watch throughs of Babylon

524

Laura: 5.

525

Oh man, I hope that's, I hope that's true.

526

I hope that there are 307 people out there

that did a complete watch through with us.

527

That would be fun.

528

Xhafer: So yeah,

529

Laura: Also a nice little

boost on the streamings.

530

Xhafer: yeah, good for Babylon five.

531

We should probably talk about

it a little bit to show itself.

532

Laura: Oh yeah, we haven't done that.

533

We've been talking for like 20 minutes

and haven't talked about Babylon 5.

534

Xhafer: well, that's because as

much as we, as much as the podcast

535

is about Babylon five, the podcast

536

Laura: It's also not.

537

Yeah.

538

Yeah.

539

Yeah.

540

Xhafer: Um, before we do

that we did get, we did not.

541

Really ask for letters.

542

I don't think in a timeframe.

543

Um, we, I got a couple of quick little

messages from people on discord.

544

Um, but I've got one that I want to read

545

Laura: Okay.

546

Xhafer: and it's from our editor, Aaron.

547

Laura: I'm a

548

Xhafer: this, he sent this into me.

549

Um, I have not read this yet,

550

Laura: Okay.

551

Xhafer: so I'm going to read

it aloud for the first time.

552

So when I trip over my words, my bad.

553

Laura: Just retake it.

554

Xhafer: Yeah.

555

Um,

556

hey there, editor Aaron here.

557

Long time listener, first time caller,

normally I prefer to work behind the

558

scenes, but I'm finally writing in, based

on a prompt Laura gave at the end of

559

season 5 recap, to share what watching

Babylon 5 for the first time meant to me.

560

She probably doesn't remember saying this.

561

Laura: no, I do.

562

I do.

563

Xhafer: As crazy as it sounds to be the

editor of a Babylon 5 podcast, I had never

564

actually gotten past Soul Hunters prior to

starting Laura's rewatch for this podcast.

565

I knew it was one of Laura's favorite

shows, and I'd even bought her some

566

of the DVDs one Christmas early in

our relationship, but we had never

567

made time to sit down and watch.

568

When Laura brought up the idea

of doing a Babylon 5 podcast, I

569

was admittedly a bit skeptical.

570

Would there be an audience?

571

Would anyone care?

572

Ultimately, Laura and I agreed early

on that we wouldn't host together due

573

to the demands of raising a family.

574

Side note.

575

Yeah, that would be insane.

576

Laura: Yeah.

577

Can you imagine?

578

Can

579

Xhafer: No,

580

Laura: I guess people do it,

but I don't know how they do it.

581

Xhafer: Yeah,

582

back to Aaron.

583

Nonetheless, I was looking forward to

finally sitting down together to watch

584

the show that had made a big enough

impact on her to make her want to

585

go through this whole podcast thing.

586

Little did I know how deep

my involvement would get.

587

Initially, I was not even going to

edit the show at all, but the reality

588

of Lauren's first schedule meant that

if the podcast was going to continue

589

in five, Thrive, an extra set of hands

and ears were going to be needed.

590

I could tell how important the show

was to Laura, and I wanted to help

591

where I could to make sure it would

happen and be the best it could be.

592

And with that, I started my

complete Babylon five, watch through

593

editing a podcast for a show I

had never seen while still somehow

594

managing to avoid major spoilers.

595

I'd note again, Aaron, if I forced you

to have spoilers by putting in spoiler

596

warnings that you then had to listen to,

597

I'm so sorry.

598

Laura: Oh, those don't count.

599

Those don't

600

Xhafer: count there when watching Babylon

five for the first time means to me.

601

It's almost impossible to put into words.

602

Of course, it is a great

show in its own merits.

603

And Laura Ingefair spent 150 episodes

expanding on that far better than I could.

604

Seriously, you should go listen.

605

For me, it was so much more.

606

Not only was it a way to spend

quality time with Laura, sharing

607

an important part of her life, but

also a new creative outlet for me.

608

The years, yes, years, I've worked on this

show have encompassed some of the highest

609

highs and lowest lows of a person's life,

a global pandemic, the birth of a child,

610

the death of a parent, making new friends.

611

All the ebbs and flows of a life lived.

612

All of these moments are forever

entwined with Babylon five, and

613

I wouldn't trade it for anything.

614

Thank you to Jafair for your dedication,

for trusting me to handle edit full

615

time and for all the drop call outs.

616

Thank you to Laura for your determination

to make the show happen, your grace when

617

there was a late night edit, and for

sharing this part of your life with me.

618

And to you both, congratulations on

creating 150 episodes of the show.

619

It is no small feat to get this far

and is an absolutely a testament

620

to your hard work and dedication.

621

So here's to you, to Babylon 5, to

150 episodes, and hopefully many more.

622

Thanks for letting me play a part.

623

All the best.

624

Aaron,

625

I knew we were going to cry this up

626

Laura: feel so embarrassed because

we have the easy job, you and me.

627

Xhafer: for sure.

628

Laura: job is the hard job.

629

Xhafer: His job is a hundred

percent the hard job.

630

Laura: Yeah.

631

Xhafer: It's one thing to sit here

and just bullshit off the cuff.

632

It's another to have to

make that intelligible

633

Laura: Huh.

634

Xhafer: and we don't make it easy.

635

Oh, well, thank you, Aaron.

636

And thank you.

637

I know we thank you at the end of every

episode, but I mean, this is for you.

638

I guess you could, this doesn't

have to stay on the pod.

639

That's your call.

640

But you know, you're just as much.

641

You're such, you're the most

important part of this in a lot

642

of very real, tangible ways,

because this podcast wouldn't have

643

made it 150 episodes without you.

644

Laura: Yeah.

645

It probably would have like slowed

down with, we wouldn't have been

646

able to claim that we never missed an

647

Xhafer: no, for sure.

648

We would have missed episodes.

649

We probably would have

dropped every other week.

650

I don't know that we would have hit an

ending and that slowing of momentum.

651

I don't think allows us

to do the other stuff.

652

Which is also important and

enriching though, the general, I

653

don't think if I had to edit who are

you every other week that I would

654

be doing last time on right now,

655

Laura: Yeah.

656

Xhafer: and I really like last time on,

657

Laura: Mm hmm.

658

Xhafer: and I like that it affords

me a chance to hang out with my buds.

659

Even more weak.

660

Laura: Mm hmm.

661

Xhafer: Um, so yeah.

662

Laura: We, I, I,

663

I don't want to turn this into a sappy,

like love letters from husband to wife

664

and wife to husband, but, um, I, there's

so much I learned in the last few years.

665

Mm hmm.

666

Thanks.

667

Um, part of watching this show again was

like grappling with how I saw the world

668

as a child and how I see the world now.

669

Xhafer: Oh fuck.

670

Yeah.

671

That's a real thing.

672

Laura: yeah, um, you know, I,

I had the Sheridan stepdad.

673

I've, I've bought it all

hook, line and sinker.

674

Sheridan was the best and the hero.

675

And coming back and rewatching the

show, I've, I've have a lot more

676

nuance about the roles of men in

the world and how much damage they

677

have actually done to me personally.

678

Uh, And Um, I don't know, I just,

Aaron's had to sit in the front row

679

seat for a confronting of a lot of that,

and I appreciate that he has always.

680

handled it with respect and nuance

because I do tend sometimes to just

681

like throw everything out, you know,

if there's one, one bad piece in

682

it, I'm like, well, this is all bad,

you know, um, but black or white.

683

Xhafer: room floor from those

episodes we edited that Aaron kept

684

in and the podcast is better for it.

685

Laura: Mm hmm.

686

I tend to think very black and white

about stuff, and I get that partly from

687

my upbringing, probably partly from my

neurology, like the brain meets, and yeah.

688

He's always been a presence of

like, well, is it all bad though?

689

You know, do we have to

throw all of that out?

690

you know, that there, there is more

flexibility in life than I ever imagined.

691

And I don't know.

692

Where it all came from.

693

I think some of it comes from watching

shows like Babylon 5 when you had

694

the clear like good and evil sort of

almost like if you if you read it just

695

on surface level shadows and Vorlons

dark and light like and that's the

696

level you get when you're a child.

697

You don't, you might be developing

those critical thinking skills,

698

but you don't have them yet.

699

Xhafer: Yeah.

700

Laura: And I feel like my world was

built a lot on that sort of framing

701

of this is black or it's white.

702

It's this or it's that.

703

And the first person in my life that

Made me realize it didn't, I didn't

704

have to think that way and I could be

flexible and I could, you know, if, if

705

I was going to be five minutes late to

something, it didn't mean I shouldn't

706

go like his is Aaron and he's kept this

thing afloat by reminding me, like, if

707

you miss a week of recording, it's not

all over, you just get back on the horse.

708

Xhafer: Yeah.

709

Laura: I think that's, so what, what do

you feel like the biggest journey with

710

the show material has been for you?

711

Xhafer: Um, I have, I, I, I think I've

talked about this a little bit that uh,

712

Garibaldi reminds me a lot about my dad,

713

Laura: Yes, we have talked about it.

714

Xhafer: um, in a lot of ways.

715

And some of that is like as a character.

716

And when I was a kid, for sure,

Garibaldi was my favorite.

717

Um, I, I had lots of like Lego space

dudes and my favorite was Garibaldi.

718

I named him Garibaldi and I would play

the little Lego games with him and

719

stuff, you know, um, and a lot of that

was because I saw so much of my father.

720

And as a child, I saw so much

of my father in Garibaldi.

721

And in that very limited scope of,

you have to view like viewing the

722

show as a child and viewing the show

as an adult are very, very different

723

experiences with very, very different

stories being told exactly because

724

it's that black and white when you're

a kid, because that's what your little.

725

Puddle of a binary brain can process.

726

And then as you understand nuance

and you understand the four lines are

727

actually the bad guys in a lot of ways.

728

And that it's not a show

about good versus evil.

729

It's a show of being able to break

free of all of those cycles to

730

find a path forward and freedom.

731

In a very real way.

732

Um, and I got completely off topic there,

but my relationship with Garrett Baldy

733

on this rewatch and seeing the not so

great aspects of him as a character,

734

and we make jokes about, you know,

homeschool security school and stuff, but

735

there's, there's a lot of stuff with him.

736

That's not good.

737

And it's a lot of the stuff that as

an adult, I had to wrestle with of

738

recognizing it, my father as well.

739

Laura: Mm hmm.

740

Xhafer: And I wonder how much of that was.

741

Maybe comprehended in the background

by my little puddle of a brain, or if

742

it's just a coincidence that there's so

much overlap between them as a character

743

and as a person in lots of weird ways.

744

If I'm just reaching for anything

that connects me to him because he's

745

been dead for four years now, you

know, um, there's a lot of that there.

746

And that's a lot to deal with and unpack.

747

And that was one of the big

things for me in the rewatch.

748

And the difference between

viewing it as a child and adult.

749

And then the one that I know hits

us both super heavy and the election

750

is next week, is the descent into

fascism and that's the stuff that

751

as a kid, you're like, Oh yeah, wait,

those humans are the bad guys, I guess.

752

Okay.

753

Whatever, you know, like, and you kind

of just gloss like, I didn't really know

754

what was going on until I did my rewatch.

755

Um,

756

Laura: Mm hmm.

757

Xhafer: and I mean, When we started

this, I was wrapping a rewatch.

758

Like I just finished going through

in my personal time during COVID

759

and rewatching the entire show.

760

Um,

761

Laura: Yeah.

762

As one does during a pandemic,

re watch an entire show.

763

Xhafer: I mean, I got COVID

and watched the entirety of

764

the office in like two weeks.

765

All I did was watch the

office and I remember nothing.

766

And that was my first viewing of

the office and I still hate it

767

Laura: Yeah.

768

Xhafer: as its moments.

769

Anyways.

770

It's just like dealing with that in 2020.

771

Like just coming off of a Trump

presidency and now here on the precipice.

772

Laura: No.

773

Don't say it.

774

Xhafer: Well, okay.

775

So I mean, real talk,

776

to be perfectly honest, I'm, I'm not

terribly concerned about the results

777

because I'm, I don't think this

country is about to fall into fascism.

778

And I mean, I saw someone else and

they meant this in a pro Trump manner.

779

But it was kind of reassuring in a

way of democracy holds where it's

780

just like, Hey, you know, right now

to be the most authoritarian president

781

in history, you have to win four

elections in turn an entire population.

782

And you know, do a couple of

the things that FDR did that

783

were not particularly great.

784

Um, and I saw someone posting that.

785

In reference to like,

Trump's not that bad guys.

786

and you know, the dirty Democrats

are just the worst always.

787

Cause that's, you know, it's the, the,

the Colts there is just so astonishingly

788

brainwashed not to say that no one,

no, no, there's not any brainwashed

789

Democrats, but it's a whole thing.

790

And that, that's a, give me a

little bit of hope where it's just

791

all like, you know, this country

has survived a lot of bullshit.

792

Um, so.

793

My main concern is four years of more

Republicans on the Supreme court.

794

I think that's the worst thing to come

out of a Trump presidency , because

795

that that's the kind of long lasting

damage that it will take 30 or 40 years

796

to even begin to start to correct, and

the court has already shown that they're

797

just completely worthless at this point.

798

Laura: Yeah,

799

Xhafer: Um, so, you know,

800

Laura: Yeah.

801

Xhafer: it be an episode of this podcast

if I didn't go on a leftist rant?

802

Laura: yeah, it's

tradition as is tradition.

803

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

804

Laura: I think the biggest growth I had

already I've, I've talked about was seeing

805

that things aren't as easy as they look.

806

It's not all tied up in

a bow like you think.

807

I wish I could remember who I

said was my favorite character.

808

Did I say Londo?

809

Xhafer: I think you did.

810

Laura: Yeah, I still find

him the most interesting.

811

I think

812

Xhafer: Okay.

813

Laura: is very tragic

814

Xhafer: Yes.

815

Laura: and, you know, you make your

choices and you lay in it, but Lando in

816

particular, it feels very sad because

he starts as, you know, the clown and

817

he's doing the clown bit because he

is terribly hurt by, you know, His

818

irrelevance and seeking that relevance

just ruins it ruins a whole lot of stuff

819

Xhafer: Yeah, I don't,

820

I think I have a lot of fond

memories of Lando and the Lando

821

Jakar mess arounds of season five

822

Laura: are fun.

823

Xhafer: are fun.

824

And I thought that was so much

more of the show than it is for so

825

Laura: weird, right?

826

I thought a lot of those.

827

Goofums happened in earlier

parts of the show, but they were

828

actually busy hating each other

and being at each other's throats.

829

Xhafer: Yeah,

830

Laura: And that, that relationship

between those two actors,

831

you just can't compare that to anything.

832

Like it was outstanding.

833

You wish that we had Andreas

for a few more years.

834

Xhafer: yeah,

835

Laura: Do you think that the show

might've gotten some more Substantial

836

movies, reboots, if we'd had some

of our actors a few more years.

837

Xhafer: no, because I don't

think the problem was the cast.

838

I think the problem in a lot of it is,

okay, so much of this is like painted

839

by JMS's relationship with the studios,

840

Laura: Yeah.

841

Mm hmm.

842

Xhafer: And that is not

a good relationship.

843

From either side and so much of like

going back and reading usenet stuff

844

on the lost tales taking forever.

845

Um, you know, fucking road home has

been out for over a year at this point.

846

And when it was launched, it

was like, Hey, if the DVD sales

847

do great, then there's going

to be more announced real soon.

848

We've already got all these art

assets built and all this stuff.

849

And when I was doing research

for lost tales, I saw.

850

Almost the exact same verbatim

851

lost tales or 2008, whatever.

852

Laura: Yeah.

853

Yeah.

854

Xhafer: Right.

855

And then I saw, I even saw a

followup talking about how great

856

the sales were for lost tales, how

it did much better than expected.

857

All this stuff,

858

Laura: I was one of those who bought it.

859

Yeah.

860

Yeah.

861

Xhafer: And we heard the same thing about

wrote home and it's been absolute silence.

862

And I know JMS is not the person who

promises things before they happen.

863

Right.

864

He's gotten in trouble

in that in the past.

865

But it's just like.

866

Is it that it's doing great and did great

and that there's this relationship with

867

the studio where you let along with the

carrot and stick for like the 20th time of

868

your career, in which case I'm so sorry.

869

Um, is it that the studios want

more Babylon five, but they

870

don't want to work with you

871

Laura: I don't know.

872

Xhafer: you're notoriously

difficult about some of this shit.

873

Laura: Yeah.

874

Yeah.

875

Xhafer: just like, I don't know

where the, I don't know where it is.

876

And I know that like, if, if Joe were

to walk in my front door right now,

877

It's not even something I would ask him

about because I know, I know that one, he

878

won't say anything until it's for certain

and I respect that to be absolutely clear.

879

That's a good stance to take when you're

dealing with crazies on the internet.

880

And if anyone's done enough of

that in their life, it's him.

881

You know, he was the pioneer of creators

dealing with fans on the internet.

882

And so if he's apprehensive about

saying things before they happen,

883

that comes solely from experience of

dealing with overzealous fans like me.

884

Laura: hmm.

885

Xhafer: So I can't throw shade at that.

886

I respect it.

887

Even if I hate it, I respect it.

888

Um, but it's also just like,

889

I don't know what I, I

don't know what I'd want.

890

Like if, if Babylon five reboot got picked

up by what's a best case scenario, HBO.

891

Laura: Yeah.

892

Mm hmm.

893

Xhafer: and they announced it's exactly

his vision and it's going to be 26

894

episode seasons and they're going to have

2 million budgets for every episode and

895

every surviving cast members agreed to

come back on an auxiliary role and they're

896

going to do new cast for the main actor

for all the roles, but like Sheridan is

897

going to be fucking kosh or whatever.

898

Right.

899

They got Bruce's cosh, whatever, whatever.

900

It fucking doesn't matter.

901

Right.

902

Um, like that is as ideal as it can get.

903

I don't know how excited I would truly be.

904

Laura: Yeah,

905

Xhafer: And I don't mean that in a,

like it's unbound and unmeasurable.

906

I mean, I'm going to have to approach

it with a level of apprehensiveness

907

and wait and see that I don't know

that I would be capable of enjoying

908

it until we're three seasons in.

909

Because I'd just be waiting

for, even if it's perfect, if

910

it's fucking flawless and it's.

911

Just better than I could possibly

imagine because I trust him to

912

make a better show than I can.

913

He does it professionally.

914

I just talk about shit on the internet.

915

I don't know how excited I would be truly.

916

I don't think I would be.

917

I think I'd be worried and apprehensive

the entire time until it was done.

918

And then I'd be worried.

919

And even if it is perfect and we get five

seasons and it's fucking glorious, I'd

920

be worried and apprehensive that there's

going to be another fucking lost tales

921

Laura: uh,

922

Xhafer: fucking legend of the

Rangers that comes in shits on the

923

legacy of the great thing he made.

924

Laura: Yeah.

925

And well, we live in the post

Game of Thrones world, right?

926

Where people were so, so

hype for Game of Thrones.

927

And then, because of a difficult creator

not finishing his work, It declined in

928

quality quite seriously in its seasons

that went beyond the original material,

929

and I think that that sort of audience

would translate over and they would

930

just be, they would probably find

something to dislike about every episode.

931

Xhafer: is too strong of

a female character guy.

932

It's got a review bomb this and

that's not even actual people.

933

That's probably just fucking bots.

934

Laura: And society

935

Xhafer: I don't think the show can

exist and tell the story that it told.

936

In a meaningful way in society right now.

937

And that fucking sucks.

938

Laura: right now is very hard.

939

I mean, I've, I feel like I've

been grappling with this just a

940

little bit in my new work in that,

941

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

942

Laura: man, things are kind

of getting out of our control.

943

Xhafer: Yeah.

944

Laura: And I mean, maybe,

maybe that's not accurate.

945

Maybe All we ever had was an

illusion of control to begin with.

946

And now, because of the scale and speed

that things move, especially information,

947

information is the big problem right now.

948

Not, not good information.

949

Good information should be

everywhere all at once, right?

950

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

951

Laura: There's so much of it that's bad,

because it's been manipulated by someone,

952

or because it's Trying to manipulate you

and don't know how we get around this.

953

Xhafer: I forget if I went on this rant

on this podcast or LTO, but the media is

954

not invested in telling you the truth.

955

The media is invested in

keeping you entertained and

956

Laura: Um,

957

Xhafer: and go check out ground news.

958

Laura: yes, we, we had that on this

959

Xhafer: That was, that was this pod.

960

Laura: That was this podcast,

961

Xhafer: I, I am always worried.

962

I'm going to offend you by not being able

to remember what conversation I had was.

963

Laura: I can't remember who I told

what, when, and I know I repeat

964

myself to a lot of people and

I'm super embarrassed about it.

965

Xhafer: Yeah.

966

Okay.

967

Listen, I don't know what you were

expecting this episode, but you

968

probably got something that you

weren't out of our conversation so far.

969

Laura: we didn't uh, recap much show.

970

We

971

Xhafer: No.

972

Well, we've done that for 150 hours.

973

If you want to know how I felt

about an episode, go listen

974

to my review of that episode.

975

I'll probably feel differently

the next time I watch it.

976

Laura: we,

977

we.

978

Xhafer: we.

979

change and we grow.

980

Laura: so wild.

981

Xhafer: Right.

982

Laura: It meant a lot to us.

983

I think it still means a lot to us.

984

And it will probably

continue to mean a lot to us.

985

So that's, that's our whole deal.

986

And we're glad that you came along.

987

Xhafer: I really look forward.

988

Like Beth doesn't listen to this podcast.

989

Right.

990

So I can say a thing right now and then

it's not like a surprise or news or

991

anything, but uh, she tried to watch

the first season of Babylon five.

992

She got through most of it.

993

She really liked the first season.

994

She turned on the first episode of the

second season, hated Sheraton immediately.

995

Wanted Sinclair back and never

picked it up again in like three

996

years after enough time has passed.

997

I know I'm going to be able to

like get her to start again.

998

And I am looking forward to being on

the Laura side of the Laura Aaron coin

999

and watching that with her as she gets

to experience it for the first time.

00:50:12,263 --> 00:50:14,863

Um, but I would not recommend doing

it now because I think things are

00:50:14,863 --> 00:50:17,233

a little too real with the fascism.

00:50:19,043 --> 00:50:19,533

Laura: Yeah.

00:50:20,533 --> 00:50:23,663

I would like that to

improve just, just a skosh.

00:50:23,663 --> 00:50:24,023

Just

00:50:24,033 --> 00:50:24,913

Xhafer: that'd be great

00:50:25,103 --> 00:50:25,243

Laura: skosh.

00:50:26,063 --> 00:50:30,818

Xhafer: if we could just suddenly Take

the lead out of everyone's blood and brain

00:50:31,851 --> 00:50:38,231

that's poisoned so many people and start

there and then move into reinstating.

00:50:39,111 --> 00:50:43,291

I honestly, like I think about what I

would do, like chair your president.

00:50:43,871 --> 00:50:44,571

I'm like, fuck.

00:50:44,901 --> 00:50:45,241

Immediately.

00:50:45,241 --> 00:50:45,701

Fuck.

00:50:45,811 --> 00:50:46,671

I'm so fucked.

00:50:46,786 --> 00:50:47,356

Laura: Oh no.

00:50:47,636 --> 00:50:47,876

Oh no.

00:50:48,291 --> 00:50:49,691

Xhafer: it's just a terrible idea.

00:50:49,741 --> 00:50:54,011

Whoever decided this bad call,

but we're stuck with it now.

00:50:55,171 --> 00:50:59,851

The first thing I'd do, like you

can't call yourself news unless

00:50:59,851 --> 00:51:01,161

you present both sides of a story.

00:51:02,294 --> 00:51:03,554

You have to call yourself entertainment.

00:51:04,044 --> 00:51:05,134

You can't call yourself the news.

00:51:05,989 --> 00:51:06,549

Laura: Hmm.

00:51:07,989 --> 00:51:09,179

Xhafer: I think that's

where it has to start.

00:51:10,129 --> 00:51:10,519

Laura: Yeah.

00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:14,519

Xhafer: I think we have

to take our media back.

00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,999

And if that's investing a bunch of money

in PBS, which I don't like the idea

00:51:19,999 --> 00:51:22,869

of like a government run news station

00:51:22,929 --> 00:51:23,479

Laura: Right.

00:51:23,509 --> 00:51:25,059

That has its own problems,

00:51:25,059 --> 00:51:25,429

doesn't

00:51:25,539 --> 00:51:26,829

Xhafer: its own problems for sure.

00:51:27,329 --> 00:51:32,469

Um, but it's either that or break

up a bunch of these news megacorps

00:51:34,479 --> 00:51:36,819

and not let them call themselves news.

00:51:36,820 --> 00:51:39,049

I think, I think you have to start there.

00:51:39,049 --> 00:51:41,349

You have to start with getting trust.

00:51:41,834 --> 00:51:46,914

and information back into people's brains.

00:51:46,984 --> 00:51:48,444

You have to start with critical thinking.

00:51:48,444 --> 00:51:51,564

You have to start with every side

has more than one thing going on.

00:51:51,564 --> 00:51:53,844

The truth is a three edged sword.

00:51:53,979 --> 00:51:54,819

Laura: Hell yeah.

00:51:54,879 --> 00:51:56,099

Good, good pull.

00:51:56,657 --> 00:51:58,227

Some smart guy said that, right?

00:51:58,597 --> 00:51:59,517

Xhafer: Yeah, totally.

00:51:59,557 --> 00:52:00,737

I see it on LinkedIn all the time.

00:52:01,267 --> 00:52:01,907

Laura: Yeah, me too.

00:52:03,816 --> 00:52:07,146

Xhafer: Well, we've talked

a lot about the past.

00:52:08,111 --> 00:52:08,641

Laura: Yeah,

00:52:09,056 --> 00:52:11,036

Xhafer: Do we want to talk a

little bit about the future?

00:52:11,671 --> 00:52:13,761

Laura: Yeah, I guess it's time

to look forward to something.

00:52:14,161 --> 00:52:14,701

Xhafer: Yeah,

00:52:14,971 --> 00:52:17,231

Laura: I'm a little scared to be honest.

00:52:17,831 --> 00:52:20,541

Xhafer: scared of the election being

next week or scared of Battlestar

00:52:20,801 --> 00:52:22,991

Laura: Oh, well, I mean,

that's, that's without a given.

00:52:22,991 --> 00:52:25,290

I'm a little scared of

Battlestar Galactica.

00:52:25,371 --> 00:52:25,951

Um,

00:52:26,301 --> 00:52:28,911

Xhafer: I know that this comes

out like after the results will be

00:52:29,191 --> 00:52:29,591

Laura: I know

00:52:29,591 --> 00:52:30,071

we're going to

00:52:30,081 --> 00:52:33,051

Xhafer: I hope I, I hope I

still have hope in my voice when

00:52:33,051 --> 00:52:33,851

you're listening to this episode.

00:52:33,871 --> 00:52:37,231

Like if you listen to this episode

and see me in person, I hope that

00:52:37,231 --> 00:52:39,431

I have hope in my voice when you

talk to me when this episode airs.

00:52:40,091 --> 00:52:44,181

Laura: I just, if, if we're

hosting every episode of Battlestar

00:52:44,181 --> 00:52:47,961

Galactica, like, totally drunk, you

know why, you know why, listener.

00:52:48,361 --> 00:52:49,221

Xhafer: You know what happened.

00:52:50,001 --> 00:52:50,991

Well, you're living through what

00:52:51,411 --> 00:52:55,631

Laura: I mean, I, I hear that Battlestar

Galactica, I have this like vision of it

00:52:55,641 --> 00:52:59,331

in my head because I've never seen any of

it, but you know, I've absorbed some of

00:52:59,341 --> 00:53:02,831

the zeitgeist, um, as being rather dark.

00:53:03,361 --> 00:53:03,881

So.

00:53:04,541 --> 00:53:08,821

Xhafer: It is, um, it's dark.

00:53:08,971 --> 00:53:10,471

Uh, the ending is rough.

00:53:10,471 --> 00:53:10,535

It's rough.

00:53:12,126 --> 00:53:13,486

It is not sleeping in light.

00:53:14,131 --> 00:53:14,621

Laura: Oh.

00:53:15,706 --> 00:53:17,406

Xhafer: Just I'll just get

that out of the way right now.

00:53:17,721 --> 00:53:18,201

Laura: Mm hmm.

00:53:18,596 --> 00:53:22,656

Xhafer: Um, takes a turn

in the fourth season.

00:53:23,526 --> 00:53:28,606

And there's actually a lot of stuff

it this weekend as we're recording.

00:53:28,606 --> 00:53:30,746

This was the 20th anniversary of the show.

00:53:31,711 --> 00:53:32,331

Laura: Wow.

00:53:33,171 --> 00:53:34,031

I didn't know that.

00:53:34,091 --> 00:53:34,701

Okay.

00:53:34,701 --> 00:53:34,771

Bye bye.

00:53:35,276 --> 00:53:38,396

Xhafer: we're just like we started

our Babylon five watch right

00:53:38,396 --> 00:53:39,776

around the anniversary of the show.

00:53:40,076 --> 00:53:42,436

We are starting a battle, a

battle star watch right around

00:53:42,436 --> 00:53:43,446

the anniversary of the show.

00:53:43,866 --> 00:53:47,776

Um, I thought about cutting

the episode count to get us

00:53:47,776 --> 00:53:49,366

to launch on the anniversary.

00:53:49,641 --> 00:53:52,891

Laura: No, but the, the round

number is just too delicious.

00:53:53,106 --> 00:53:55,736

Xhafer: poll of the big round number.

00:53:55,861 --> 00:53:56,261

Laura: Mm hmm.

00:53:57,241 --> 00:53:57,861

I get you.

00:53:59,591 --> 00:53:59,991

Same.

00:54:01,196 --> 00:54:03,856

Xhafer: anyways there's actually some

really interesting stuff that came

00:54:03,856 --> 00:54:06,916

out of the convention that was, they

had a reunion convention this weekend

00:54:06,971 --> 00:54:09,341

Laura: I saw pictures of that somewhere.

00:54:09,441 --> 00:54:11,221

I don't know if one of my friends went

00:54:11,666 --> 00:54:11,936

Xhafer: If I

00:54:12,081 --> 00:54:13,861

Laura: if it was just convention pictures.

00:54:14,206 --> 00:54:17,296

Xhafer: yeah, if I hadn't had just

taken my big trip, I would have gone.

00:54:17,851 --> 00:54:18,191

Laura: Yeah.

00:54:18,832 --> 00:54:20,212

Xhafer: Um, a hundred percent.

00:54:20,222 --> 00:54:23,882

And they, they, Katie Sackhoff

already surprise announced

00:54:23,902 --> 00:54:25,102

they're doing it again next year.

00:54:25,607 --> 00:54:26,347

Laura: Oh, good.

00:54:27,012 --> 00:54:28,702

Xhafer: So maybe we make

a point of it next year.

00:54:29,052 --> 00:54:29,802

We have to talk about STLV.

00:54:31,487 --> 00:54:36,347

Um, I mean, I know I, I said this in the

Discord, I think earlier today when Vic

00:54:36,347 --> 00:54:42,007

was trying to be like, Hey, wanna do Star

Trek Fort Worth or whatever instead, STFW,

00:54:42,157 --> 00:54:42,647

Laura: but yeah,

00:54:43,347 --> 00:54:47,477

Xhafer: and I was just like, the

worst part of STLB is being in Vegas.

00:54:48,217 --> 00:54:49,657

Laura: it's, it's a bit much.

00:54:49,657 --> 00:54:50,057

Yeah.

00:54:50,487 --> 00:54:52,647

You need a certain night's limit on

00:54:52,647 --> 00:54:53,007

Vegas.

00:54:53,197 --> 00:54:56,467

Xhafer: we, we have that group chat

that we used to organize this last trip.

00:54:57,037 --> 00:55:01,627

I need to post in there and be

all like, Hey, do we want to do a

00:55:01,627 --> 00:55:04,927

different Star Trek con and just have

the big group go to a different city?

00:55:05,397 --> 00:55:05,857

Laura: Mm hmm.

00:55:06,362 --> 00:55:06,732

great question.

00:55:08,032 --> 00:55:10,282

Xhafer: They had the thing for

Battlestar Galactica this weekend,

00:55:10,622 --> 00:55:14,162

and there was some interesting stuff

Ron Moore said about the finale,

00:55:14,872 --> 00:55:15,572

Laura: Oh.

00:55:15,572 --> 00:55:15,707

Boom.

00:55:15,942 --> 00:55:18,892

Xhafer: about some regrets that

Ron Moore has about the finale,

00:55:19,227 --> 00:55:20,347

Laura: Oh, my.

00:55:20,437 --> 00:55:21,137

Okay.

00:55:21,322 --> 00:55:21,962

Xhafer: um,

00:55:21,967 --> 00:55:26,247

Laura: Did I tell you about almost

running into him at Star Trek Las

00:55:26,602 --> 00:55:29,002

Xhafer: like physically running

into him, like that time John

00:55:29,107 --> 00:55:32,327

Laura: that, remember

that, that narrow hallway?

00:55:32,727 --> 00:55:35,127

Because they had, like,

things blocked off.

00:55:35,532 --> 00:55:35,972

Xhafer: yeah.

00:55:36,177 --> 00:55:38,477

Laura: Like, Aaron and I were

coming this way, Ronald D.

00:55:38,477 --> 00:55:39,477

Moore was going that way,

00:55:40,117 --> 00:55:42,567

and He's not a tall man.

00:55:46,252 --> 00:55:46,762

Xhafer: Yeah,

00:55:47,387 --> 00:55:49,157

Laura: I mean, I'm not

saying anything about that.

00:55:49,157 --> 00:55:49,637

I was just like,

00:55:52,382 --> 00:55:56,572

Xhafer: I was surprised when I, when I

ran into Adam Cole at what a short King he

00:55:56,572 --> 00:55:59,612

was, he's a, he's a professional wrestler.

00:55:59,612 --> 00:56:03,062

Who's billed a six foot and

he's like maybe five, four,

00:56:03,507 --> 00:56:04,467

Laura: Not six foot?

00:56:05,422 --> 00:56:06,902

Xhafer: maybe five, four

00:56:07,217 --> 00:56:10,207

Laura: I mean, we stan a short

king, obviously, around here.

00:56:10,882 --> 00:56:15,800

Xhafer: all right, Battlestar, I,

I actually have had it up in front

00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,510

of me for about three minutes now.

00:56:17,815 --> 00:56:18,965

Laura: Oh, okay.

00:56:19,130 --> 00:56:21,850

Xhafer: But I have the podcast,

the new podcast artwork.

00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:27,420

That you sent over to me, um, a week ago

when we were recording the last episode.

00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:29,510

It's superb.

00:56:30,325 --> 00:56:30,895

Laura: Yeah.

00:56:30,955 --> 00:56:32,405

Xhafer: The lettering is great.

00:56:32,905 --> 00:56:36,125

I love the little dip

in the R I love that.

00:56:36,125 --> 00:56:41,745

It's like, kind of like,

It, it moves around a bit.

00:56:42,345 --> 00:56:46,805

Um, the depictions of us are excellent.

00:56:46,845 --> 00:56:48,575

We're both dwarves for some reason.

00:56:49,326 --> 00:56:49,936

Uh,

00:56:50,081 --> 00:56:51,471

Laura: Just their, their style

00:56:51,776 --> 00:56:53,266

Xhafer: yeah, but I dig it.

00:56:53,766 --> 00:56:54,536

Pun intended.

00:56:55,176 --> 00:56:58,476

Um, no, I love it.

00:56:58,846 --> 00:57:01,516

Um, I love it a lot.

00:57:01,861 --> 00:57:02,491

Laura: Yeah.

00:57:02,571 --> 00:57:08,236

The, The artist decided to pose us a

little more familiar with one another.

00:57:08,586 --> 00:57:12,426

And I was like, well, that's

perfect because we are now a little

00:57:12,426 --> 00:57:13,726

more familiar with one another.

00:57:14,136 --> 00:57:14,596

Xhafer: it's true.

00:57:15,796 --> 00:57:17,816

Um, we're not changing

the name or anything.

00:57:17,816 --> 00:57:19,196

We're still going to be, who are you?

00:57:19,676 --> 00:57:23,746

Um, it kind of works for Babylon

or for Battlestar Galactica.

00:57:23,746 --> 00:57:26,896

It's not a thing like

it is in Babylon five.

00:57:27,681 --> 00:57:33,431

But there is a bit of mystery

around the individual, um, which

00:57:33,431 --> 00:57:35,271

I'm not, have you seen anything?

00:57:35,886 --> 00:57:37,736

Laura: The, I know, okay.

00:57:38,126 --> 00:57:41,176

I will give you what I know

of Battlestar Galactica.

00:57:41,996 --> 00:57:43,926

Cylons, bad.

00:57:44,376 --> 00:57:52,136

Cylons, robots, and could

be anyone at any time.

00:57:52,761 --> 00:57:53,261

Xhafer: Yes.

00:57:53,291 --> 00:57:53,671

Okay.

00:57:54,081 --> 00:58:00,621

That's the thing is who, who the

silence are is like dispersed among

00:58:00,661 --> 00:58:04,001

the populace is a huge mystery.

00:58:04,031 --> 00:58:08,351

That's led on in the very first

episodes in the mini series,

00:58:08,351 --> 00:58:10,001

you find out someone's asylum.

00:58:10,671 --> 00:58:12,181

They're just like, Whoa.

00:58:12,521 --> 00:58:17,016

Um, That's it's a thing

throughout the entire show.

00:58:17,556 --> 00:58:17,956

Laura: Yeah.

00:58:17,986 --> 00:58:21,026

And I guess Cylons want

to exterminate humans.

00:58:21,026 --> 00:58:21,496

Yes.

00:58:21,661 --> 00:58:25,721

Xhafer: Yeah, I'm going to just

confirm for the audience right now.

00:58:26,331 --> 00:58:27,311

I've seen all of it.

00:58:27,811 --> 00:58:32,221

I know who all of the silence are,

whether they're one of the normal

00:58:32,221 --> 00:58:35,751

models or one of the final five,

which is the whole other thing

00:58:35,886 --> 00:58:36,616

Laura: Oh boy.

00:58:36,761 --> 00:58:37,311

Xhafer: learn about.

00:58:37,821 --> 00:58:40,091

Um, I remember all of it.

00:58:40,171 --> 00:58:42,741

I remember every single one

right now thinking about it.

00:58:43,021 --> 00:58:46,901

If I say something otherwise on

the pod, then I was having a lapse

00:58:46,901 --> 00:58:49,871

in memory because right now I

can name and visualize them all.

00:58:50,521 --> 00:58:55,781

So, I will not be spoiling any of it.

00:58:56,661 --> 00:58:56,981

Laura: Yeah.

00:58:57,031 --> 00:58:59,501

Cause you have me to talk to.

00:58:59,581 --> 00:58:59,931

So

00:59:01,081 --> 00:59:06,091

Xhafer: Um, I will really, really

want to but I will ask out of

00:59:06,091 --> 00:59:10,191

the novelty of it that we don't

talk about it in the discord.

00:59:11,171 --> 00:59:11,501

Laura: okay.

00:59:11,591 --> 00:59:15,261

Xhafer: is someone who's asylum,

not of everything to spoil.

00:59:15,281 --> 00:59:16,611

I think that is the biggest.

00:59:17,601 --> 00:59:20,241

Um, so I'm going to ask our

listenership and our friends in the

00:59:20,241 --> 00:59:22,251

discord to not ruin that for you.

00:59:22,521 --> 00:59:24,351

Laura: It's a no Cylon zone

00:59:24,676 --> 00:59:26,246

Xhafer: no silent zone, the discord.

00:59:26,646 --> 00:59:31,476

Um, we will probably, I will

archive some of the B5 channels.

00:59:31,476 --> 00:59:32,456

They'll still be active.