Trying to conceive can be an emotional roller coaster. From tracking cycles to navigating fertility treatments, the whole process can feel overwhelming, especially when you're bombarded with advice, acronyms, and uncertainty. If you've ever wished for a clear, no-stress guide to fertility, this episode is for you.

This week, Dr. Renee White sits down with Dr. Cheryl Phua, a fertility specialist at IVF Australia, to break it all down in a way that makes sense. They chat about when to seek fertility support, what treatments like IUI, IVF, and ICSI actually involve, ****and how to take control of your reproductive health, without the confusion or pressure.

You’ll hear about:

• Optimising fertility naturally: Small but powerful changes to your lifestyle, diet, and mindset that can make a real difference.
• When to ask for help: How long to try naturally before considering fertility treatments and what the latest guidelines suggest.
• Understanding fertility treatments: Breaking down IUI, IVF, and ICSI in simple terms, plus how to know which path might be right for you.
• Genetic testing and fertility science: How modern technology is helping improve pregnancy outcomes.
• The emotional side of fertility: Why this journey can feel so overwhelming and how to get the right support along the way.

Whether you're at the start of your journey, considering fertility treatment, or just want to understand your options, this episode is packed with practical insights, expert advice, and plenty of reassurance.

Resources and Links:

Learn more about Dr Renee White and Explore Fill Your Cup Doula Services

Want to be nurtured and nourished after the birth of your baby, have a peek at our doula offerings.

If you want to gobble up our famous Chocolate + Goji lactation cookies, look no further!

📲 Want to connect with Dr. Cheryl Phua? Follow her on Instagram: @drcherylphua or visit her website: drcherylphua.com

If this episode gave you clarity or confidence, share it with a friend who might need it too. And if you haven’t already, hit subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Disclaimer: The information on this podcast presented by the Fill Your Cup is not a substitute for independent professional advice.

Nothing contained in this podcast is intended to be used as medical advice and it is not intended to be used to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, nor should it be used for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for your own health professional's advice.

[00:00:27] I'm Dr. Renee White, and this is The Science of Motherhood. Hello and welcome to episode 160 of The Science of Motherhood. I am your host, Dr. Renee white. Thank you so much for joining us today. We have got a regular back on the podcast, Dr. Cheryl Phua, but before we dive into that episode, I just wanted to remind everyone, if you've been following us on socials, very exciting.

[00:01:22] Now, what does that mean? That means I am helping support overwhelmed sleep deprived families when they've got newborns or they're preparing to become parents. And we have got an amazing team. We've got 20 doulas now across Australia, pretty much all along that kind of Eastern seaboard now, except for ACT, but you know, let's see.

[00:02:15] Maybe you've never changed a nappy. Maybe you're really concerned about, you know, oh my goodness, how do we do this? And I just need someone to come and help support us in those first, you know, four to six weeks of having a new bubby and I've got lots of questions to ask and I kind of want someone on standby.

[00:02:58] If you're a little bit, you know, lacking confidence, but you want to be empowered and have someone on tap for resources and to hold space for you and give you an opportunity to recover properly after pregnancy and birth, then you might want to have a look at having a postpartum doula. Equally, if you're feeling concerned about birth and you want a cheerleader for that birth process, we have birth doulas as well.

[00:04:44] And there's lots of acronyms. So there's like IUI, IVF, ICSI, she explains it all, which is great. And then we also talk about, you know, the preconception screening, having a look at genetics and things like that. So it's actually a really informative episode. If this is something that you feel like you are maybe having to start this journey or you're thinking about it.

[00:05:28] Dr Cheryl Phua: Hi Renee. Thanks so much for having me again. How are you?

[00:05:38] Dr Cheryl Phua: Yeah, you've got the bright sweater on, so I think that's always important to try and make it a little bit better.

[00:05:57] Dr Cheryl Phua: Oh yeah, exactly, like

[00:06:06] Dr Cheryl Phua: I need something to pep me up for like, so that the weekend is almost here.

[00:06:21] So if that is an interest to you, then jump back into that episode. But in today's episode, we are going to be talking about fertility treatments. And I guess, you know, the, the variety that we have on offer, like, thank goodness for technology, everyone. Um, you know, it has, it has come a long, long way over the years.

[00:06:58] Dr Cheryl Phua: Thanks, Renee. Sure. As a quick recap, I'm Dr. Cheryl Phua, one of the fertility specialists at IBF Australia. I work primarily in the CBD in Sydney, but also out in the northern beaches in Dee Why and St. Leonard's. My passion is just empowering women and couples who are thinking of embarking on their fertility journey with information, and just to make sure that they're asking questions, having a chat about things, so that they're actually aware of their bodies and their reproductive potential.

[00:07:45] Dr Renee White: Oh, absolutely. Um, I'm trying to recall his name, but we had him on the podcast and he was talking about, you know. The, I guess the infancies of IVF and how far it's come.

[00:08:00] Dr Renee White: And it, it is, it is crazy. It is so, so crazy. You know, like even to the extent they're like, you know, you are using AI and stuff like that to help the lab. Like that is just. So cool. 'cause I think everyone thinks AI is like some like thing that kind of

[00:08:21] Dr Renee White: Exactly. It's like, uh, we can use it for more than just like writing essays.

[00:08:26] Dr Renee White: And um, content for social media, you know, um, like it, you using it in the lab to like workout prime time for like embryos and just, oh my God, it's so, so cool.

[00:08:50] And in the future, we're hoping to also explore that into say, sperm selection and other selection techniques that might also come in useful.

[00:09:07] Dr Cheryl Phua: It does. And I think so. Where was it when we had to do our assignments? I think.

[00:09:16] Dr Cheryl Phua: All these synonyms combined for like a word.

[00:09:40] Dr Cheryl Phua: I have no idea. They were so worried about plagiarism back then, I'm like, how did you even

[00:10:03] Dr Cheryl Phua: I know, I think they must also run it through some sort of AI, because it's just, but if you've got so many people writing about the same topic, then surely there'll be some similarity.

[00:10:23] Um, now we took the, obviously the premise behind this whole topic is fertility treatments, but I think it would be remiss of us to not talk about before we even enter into that realm. What are some of the things that couples can be thinking about to prepare themselves for conception? Because I would imagine that, you know, majority of people are having that conversation with their partner, you know, maybe with their GP.

[00:11:00] Dr Cheryl Phua: So it's really important, much like general health and well being, lifestyle, diet, exercise, and supplements are really, really important to explore prior to starting on their fertility journeys, either as a single woman exploring egg freezing, for example, same sex couples wanting to share eggs and sperm, um, or even a couple trying to embark on having a first or second child.

[00:11:43] So I encourage your listeners to go and research that. There's lots of good websites to tell you what proportion and things to have. It's lots of fresh fruit, veggies, fish, a little bit of red meat and a little bit of carbs, unfortunately, guys. But the Mediterranean diet has been shown to be really high in antioxidants.

[00:12:45] You'll be amazed to see how many of my patients actually have a low vitamin D level. And they never knew because we don't normally check for it.

[00:12:52] Dr Cheryl Phua: In healthy young women and so that's really important to make sure you can't really overdose on it. So check it with your GP and if it's so you can easily have a vitamin D supplement.

[00:13:10] Dr Renee White: Yeah and so is your recommendation to like almost go get like a blood panel done and just check off those things. As you say, you know, lots of us are living with like vitamin D deficiencies are quite low in it. And so you wouldn't even know, right?

[00:14:00] Dr Renee White: Yeah, I'm so glad that you said sperm and egg health because I was having a conversation with someone the other day and we were talking about, you know, her preconception journey and things like that and there was so much focus on the woman.

[00:14:38] Dr Cheryl Phua: I would say it takes two to clap whether or not using, you know, whether or not you have a partner, a donor, et cetera. And so we want to remember that there are two components to forming babies, which is the male component, sperm and the female component, the egg. And so it's important that both aspects are optimised from a health and lifestyle perspective.

[00:15:21] Dr Cheryl Phua: Definitely not true. One of the sort of various complete obsess and you've heard me bang on about it on your previous episode about egg quality.

[00:15:29] Dr Cheryl Phua: The two components at a minimum, really, to look at egg quality. One of them, you're correct, we can't really change that and that's the genetic quality in the eggs.

[00:15:58] And it's this energy that we think as reproductive physicians and biologists have proven this, that it might be helpful in the development of embryos because it gives lens embryos energy to keep dividing and growing inside your body or in our lab.

[00:16:26] And now we're sort of seeing it filtered out into embryos as well. So while we can't change the genetic quality of eggs, cause that's tied very closely with female age, all of these things that are prone to oxidative stress or damage, for example, high BMI, um, diabetes, other health problems, and poor dietary intake and lack of exercise.

[00:16:52] Dr Renee White: Oh my god, that makes so much sense. I'm so glad because people just make statements and it's never actually logically you know, being sounded out like that for me, but that totally makes sense. You've got the genetics and then you've got the energy from the body.

[00:17:18] Now's the time to go for it. So we have to try and optimise other things that we can and what we can't change. It's just a matter of trying to optimise the other aspects that we can try and improve on.

[00:17:44] And I guess We're probably talking about, you know, a hetero couple, you know, I imagine that's going to be quite different to like a same sex couple or a, you know, single mum by choice, whatever that looks like. How long is like, you know, is there, is there a number or it's just kind of like, whenever?

[00:18:19] Dr Renee White: Okay.

[00:18:28] And we didn't want that to be a barrier to couples or single women or anything accessing treatment. or a fertility specialist appointment, or even to see your GP.

[00:18:38] Dr Cheryl Phua: Traditionally speaking, and in a lot of international guidelines, prior to this year, the standard definition of infertility or the inability to conceive was in young women less than 35, the absence of falling pregnant, so unable to fall pregnant after 12 months of actively trying to conceive.

[00:19:16] Dr Renee White: Yeah, go for it.

[00:19:40] In patients having regular unprotected sex without any known cause to suggest impaired reproductive ability, evaluation should start at 12 months if a female is younger than 35 or at six months if someone's older than that, but nothing should deny or delay treatment or investigations of an individual regardless of sexual orientation or relationship status.

[00:20:18] So, so we're trying to get around with the new definition, which is broader and hopefully will allow in future more people to access Medicare benefits for fertility treatment.

[00:20:36] Dr Cheryl Phua: I know back in the day it was really tricky because Medicare has a very specific definition for accessing Medicare benefits for IVF, for example. But that was quite antiquated, as you can imagine, because nobody looks at it to revise the definitions with all of these new relationships and models that are available now. And so that's part of our sort of initial push to get them to revisit and look at their current Medicare coverage.

[00:21:08] Dr Cheryl Phua: And also I think that that guideline of 6 to 12 months is a good time to segue into treatment because prior to that, and hopefully this segues into the next bit about what we're going to talk about for treatment is that it doesn't mean that if you see your GP, or if you see a fertility specialist like myself, that will be forcing you to have IVF straight away.

[00:21:34] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:21:57] And we are pushing so that it's three months of this will be covered by Medicare. So there's literally no out of pocket costs.

[00:22:05] Dr Cheryl Phua: So this way we know, and we can pinpoint exactly when the egg is being released. So that couples don't miss that fertile window.

[00:22:13] Dr Cheryl Phua: And this just supplements couples using the app, using ovulation pee sticks. And some people even use the Mira app, which is something that's available for you to purchase online to try and see if we can help assist couples in timing of intercourse. Because you'd be surprised at how many people get it wrong.

[00:22:49] Dr Cheryl Phua: Oh, the app says this, you know, I was like, yeah, but the app is an average of all the data you've put in.

[00:22:53] Dr Cheryl Phua: And that's why people are like, Oh, well, yes, it doesn't actually predict anything. It gives you a range because it's taking into account what you put in. So the more you put in, the better it will be. But if you put a month in, it's not really going to know, it's just going to take an average.

[00:23:38] Dr Cheryl Phua: Yeah every second or third day, go for gold. You just don't know when the egg is going to come away. Precisely. That's exactly right.

[00:23:58] Dr Cheryl Phua: No lots of women fall pregnant without IVF. So lots of women fall pregnant, for example, after checking the tubes are clear with a tubal flush ultrasound. And then we just combined that with tracking to pinpoint when. The best time for intercourse is, and you'll be surprised that some people are like, Oh, this is exactly not what my app said, or this is not when I thought I would be ovulating.

[00:24:26] Dr Renee White: Okay. So let's work through them. So there's IUI, IVF and then ICSI. I want to call it ICSI. Is that right?

[00:24:39] Dr Renee White: Yes, I was, that is the picture in my head as well.

[00:25:08] For example, if you're using a donor or if your partner is literally not here because it's in the army, then you might need that fertile time because he's always a way protecting us.

[00:25:17] Dr Cheryl Phua: So we've got to freeze the sperm so that we can use it at the right time that a lady, a female is ovulating and so we can place it a bit like a pap smear.

[00:25:44] Dr Renee White: Is that something that's done? You know, are you awake? Like have, yeah.

[00:26:08] And then just before we know the egg is about to pop or release, we bring them into the clinic sperm comes in as well. So either a partner comes in on that day or we thaw it out from the freezer. And then in a little plastic catheter, the sperm is inseminated or placed into the womb. And I'm just showing guys, I'm showing Renee a picture, placed into the womb like so, so that it's got the right timing and is slightly closer to get to the end of the fallopian tube than just with intercourse.

[00:27:03] Dr Renee White: Yes.

[00:27:12] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:27:35] Dr Renee White: Okay, that's interesting. I haven't even thought about the like military kind of

[00:27:47] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Gosh, I hadn't even thought about that. Okay. All right. So that, so that, I feel like that's kind of like base level. Is that like the base level?

[00:28:10] Dr Renee White: Okay. All right. And so what's the next level that we would normally?

[00:28:41] Dr Renee White: Okay.

[00:29:01] Dr Renee White: Okay.

[00:29:42] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:30:10] You just chill out with the eggs and dish overnight. And that's when we've got to force feed one sperm per egg. And then the next step happens the same way. We just grow them for five days, implant the best looking one. And if there's extra ones, we would aim to freeze residual any extra surplus embryos.

[00:30:36] Dr Cheryl Phua: You have to like force feed the sperm to egg.

[00:30:39] Dr Cheryl Phua: And the whole premise of IVF when it was first, like sort of started all those years ago in the late seventies, early eighties, was because there were a lot of women back then, clearly gynecologists were quite gung ho in the day, you If someone was having a problem, they just removed women's fallopian tubes just to fix a problem.

[00:31:17] Because of these women IVF was sort of looked upon and that's when we sort of bypassed the tubes.

[00:31:24] Dr Cheryl Phua: And so we did the growing in the lab and then we implanted things back into the womb itself.

[00:31:57] Dr Cheryl Phua: It does look slightly different for everyone, and I, we normally say sort of lifestyle and exercise, diet and supplements we continue on. No heavy sort of exercise or high intensity stuff, because some people might start to feel quite uncomfortable.

[00:32:33] So we should do the normal activities as you normally would, because most people would not even know when an embryo is implanting in their womb.

[00:32:45] Dr Cheryl Phua: Exactly. Try not to stress about it. It's easier said than done. But it's one of those frustrating things that people feel like they shouldn't move because things might fall out. And I say, no, it's not going to be, it's sandwiched there safely in the womb. It's not going to fall out if they do a wee or if they sort of walk around or anything like that.

[00:33:20] So I was going round and round in circles and I'd have to go over like like I think it was like three or four speed bumps each level. And I remember doing this and I'm thinking, Oh God, is this affecting my pregnancy? Like I was just like, buh bum buh bum buh bum like this the whole time. And I was like, don't be ridiculous Renee.

[00:33:55] And then it senses them. Oh yeah, it's a different organ. And so that's why it's sort of going to be safe to continue.

[00:34:01] Dr Cheryl Phua: And I also think I don't know about you, but a lot of my patients and friends and colleagues have been like, Oh yeah, my friend, so and so my friend Jane, she's tried once and she fell pregnant.

[00:34:26] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:34:32] You know, you get pressure from your friends, colleagues, people that you would pass on the street, your family, all of these people always have, it's a bit like once you have children, everybody has a thing about how to raise them.

[00:34:44] Dr Cheryl Phua: It's exactly the same thing. I think so everybody feels the need to chime in and give you that two cents worth, but it doesn't, it's not always that quick and it's not always that simple. For the vast majority of couples.

[00:35:12] And the only thing they teach you is like body parts and how to put a condom over a banana or a cucumber. And you think as like a 16 year old, you're like, Oh my God, if I have sex, I'm going to get pregnant.

[00:35:28] Dr Renee White: Exactly. And then like you get to your twenties and thirties and you're like, okay, I'm ready to have a baby.

[00:35:37] Dr Cheryl Phua: It's going to happen.

[00:35:45] Dr Cheryl Phua: And the number of women and young girls being put on the pill, which is great because it helps their menstrual management, it helps acne, helps period pains, but also the impact of stopping it.

[00:36:14] Dr Renee White: Yes. Yes. It's also a very good point. I want to talk about, I guess, the people who, you know, we've, we've spoken on this podcast previously, you know, experts with PCOS and, um, endo and things like that. Um, And I know, like, as someone who has a family history of it, what are some of the things that, I guess, are options for them? Because, you know, I work with people who, like, I'm currently working with someone through their fertility journey and supporting them as a doula through that.

[00:37:01] Dr Cheryl Phua: So in terms of PCOS or for example, endometriosis, it sort of depends on the underlying reason why a couple is taking a bit longer than average to fall pregnant.

[00:37:25] Dr Renee White: yeah,

[00:37:32] Yep. painful periods and stuff. We know the pill works really well for vast majority of women and so that's just in a holding pattern. But then we need to dive deeper and to actually figure out why is it that they've got painful periods? Is it just something that they're going to grow out of? Is it something deeper that might affect their future fertility chances?

[00:38:14] If someone's having really painful periods and it's affecting their sex life and they can't have intercourse because of pain with intercourse, then that's definitely something to explore the pros and cons of that stage about sending them to a surgeon to do keyhole surgery to look for and clean up endometriosis if it's there.

[00:39:06] That's a conversation to be had with your fertility specialist.

[00:39:24] Dr Cheryl Phua: Secondary infertility, yeah.

[00:39:39] Dr Cheryl Phua: So back in the day, it wasn't that common because people were having their first child earlier.

[00:39:45] Dr Cheryl Phua: Now that people are delaying childbearing, so if the age of mothers having their first child is older, that would just mean logically that your second child will be even older and therefore that comes into like there's a lot more couples seeing me who have no issues falling pregnant five years ago with little Johnny but now being a bit older having taken a bit of time between babies it's finding it difficult to fall pregnant.

[00:40:30] Dr Renee White: Yeah,

[00:40:35] Dr Renee White: Yeah, okay. Yeah, because I've, I've just seen that like prop up a bit more in conversations and stuff like that, but that does make sense, I guess.

[00:40:49] Dr Renee White: Yeah, my body knows what it's doing.

[00:41:00] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Okay. That's interesting to know. Um, I guess before we wrap up, I wanted to also talk about, and this is like, obviously, this is a very cool science-y kind of thing that I love because I'm, I thought I was going to become a geneticist.

[00:41:17] Dr Renee White: It turns out that I, it just didn't vibe with me at uni. So I was like, yeah, I don't want to do this anymore. Evidently biochemistry was my thing. So I've moved towards that instead, but I think it would be remiss of us to not talk about, you know, the genetic side of this. Um, and there was some additional funding towards preconception, genetic testing.

[00:41:52] Dr Cheryl Phua: So importantly, this all stemmed because of this couple, which was really, really good at lobbying, Greg Hunt at the time, way back and the health minister when he was a health minister in order to get coverage for couples intending to conceive or who are pregnant to explore genetic testing of themselves to make sure that there wasn't any hidden genetic or gene changes that could be passed on to their children.

[00:42:39] Now we all carry hidden genes, but unless we've got bad copies that are present, will we only know or have that condition? Mackenzie's mission was what started this all off. So this couple had a baby called Mackenzie. Unfortunately, she had inherited, unbeknownst to them, Mackenzie had inherited a spinal muscular atrophy gene, one from each parent.

[00:43:42] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:44:05] It's about one in four or one in two, depending on what kind of change that is. And so through lots of lobbying and through Mackenzie's mission, they then decided and eventually got Medicare to cover three of the most common inherited conditions affecting children. for young adults. The most common one is cystic fibrosis.

[00:44:54] And the last part of the three gene tests that Medicare completely covers, so no cost to females, it's something called fragile X syndrome, which can cause learning difficulties. So these three are what someone in Medicare very cleverly looked through a thousand of genes that were covered in McKenzie's mission and said, these are the most common, most debilitating.

[00:45:40] How long is a piece of string?

[00:46:16] So that brings too many stressors with the testing. When it comes, what do we do? I know that my partner and I carry something.

[00:46:26] some couples just opt to take the plunge and try to fall pregnant and they can opt to do testing in pregnancy either with an amniocentesis, removing fluid from baby or just see what happens at birth.

[00:46:54] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:47:02] Dr Renee White: Okay, so you're checking the embryo, you're not checking the, I'm just thinking you're not checking the egg and sperm.

[00:47:24] Dr Renee White: Ah, okay. Okay. That's very clever. And do you, I think the, so the Medicare rebate that came in sometime this year?

[00:47:35] Dr Renee White: Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's nearly been a year. And have you seen, and I don't know if you've got numbers or anything like that, but have you seen an uptick in people actually utilising this?

[00:47:55] Dr Renee White: Wow.

[00:48:06] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:48:16] Dr Renee White: Is it just a blood test or is it

[00:48:20] Dr Renee White: Oh, wow. Okay. Oh, so really easy then.

[00:48:39] Dr Renee White: Yeah, yeah.

[00:49:16] Dr Renee White: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. And yeah, Yeah, people are,

[00:49:38] Dr Renee White: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, well, thank you for that. We're going to quickly dive into our rapid fire, which I know we did um, In our previous episode, but I reckon if we switch gears and we kind of frame it up with fertility treatments, um, in mind, that would be really, really useful. Are you ready, Cheryl? I tried.

[00:50:12] Dr Cheryl Phua: Optimise lifestyle and diet and start on a prenatal supplement. It's really important. See your GP early just for tests to make sure, for example, that you don't need a booster shot for rubella or German measles. All of that can optimise your, um, fertility journey.

[00:50:39] Dr Cheryl Phua: Lots of IVF clinics and IVF Australia have a good resource on our webpage to tell you what it looks like.

[00:51:09] And all of these places have really good resources, including lots of people, um, lots of dieticians, naturopaths and general health and lots of um, people who are really keen to explore knowledge and share their knowledge and fertility journey have a lot of good resources on their web pages. So I just sort of go on social media, go on the internet and find these links.

[00:51:32] Dr Cheryl Phua: And I can send you can link it to your

[00:51:43] Dr Cheryl Phua: I can't say the same thing as last time.

[00:51:48] Dr Cheryl Phua: A glass of water. I definitely don't drink enough. And Renee is showing her, like, I've just made a cup of tea. That's my first drink of the day. That's like one.

[00:51:56] Dr Cheryl Phua: I know, I've had two coffees. It doesn't count. And so I just sort of pause myself. So I make sure there's a bottle or glass of water next to my bedside table because I know that I don't have enough.

[00:52:08] Dr Cheryl Phua: I know, and the tea was not even far, I have no excuse.

[00:52:18] Dr Cheryl Phua: I have one, it's just, remembering to take it is the problem.

[00:52:31] Dr Cheryl Phua: Anytime. I'm on social, so Dr Cheryl Phua, you can link me on insta. I've got a webpage drcherylphua.com and reach out to me either by hotdoc or on my website. Make appointment to see me or just reach out on social medias. And if it's a simple question, I sort of normally reply back, but if it's something medical, something that you shouldn't be sharing with me on social media platforms, because who knows what meta is listening to.

[00:53:10] Dr Cheryl Phua: So if you've learned something, it makes me feel a bit better because, you know, sometimes it's a bit difficult to know what level to pitch it at. But I think any information is good information, especially for people who feel a bit lost.

[00:53:26] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. And I love it how you break it down. Like, I just, I love it. I think it's so good. But as Cheryl said, there's going to be heaps of resources that we're going to be able to connect people with.

[00:53:42] Dr Cheryl Phua: Slide into my DMs.

[00:53:46] Dr Cheryl Phua: Yes, if people are not from like, if telehealth is no problem, um, yeah, we do everything.

[00:53:55] Dr Cheryl Phua: We're also running more information seminars through IVF Australia in our new clinic here at Bond Street.

[00:54:18] Dr Renee White: Oh my goodness, that is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that.

[00:54:35] Dr Renee White: Sometimes people just need like an infographic, you know, like not too many words, just some infographic.

[00:54:53] Dr Renee White: I want to see that.

[00:54:55] Dr Renee White: I should, I should come along. I haven't been to Sydney in a while.

[00:55:06] Dr Renee White: Yeah, keep us in the loop. That'd be awesome. Thank you so much.

[00:55:10] Dr Renee White: All right, everyone. Until next week, we will see you.

[00:55:16] Dr Renee White: Thank you. If you loved this episode, please hit the subscribe button and leave a review. If you know someone out there who would also love to listen to this episode, please hit the share button so they can benefit from it as well.