Are daily dog walks always the best thing for your pup?

In this thought-provoking episode of The Yappy Hour, host Nathan Dunleavy chats with dog trainer, author, and advocate Niki French to challenge the traditional approach to dog walking.

Niki, author of Stop Walking Your Dog and creator of #DontWalkYourDogDay, shares why not all dogs benefit from daily walks and how alternative enrichment activities can be even more fulfilling.

If you’ve ever felt guilty about skipping a walk or wondered if there’s a better way to meet your dog’s needs, this episode is for you!

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

🐾 Why traditional daily walks aren’t always beneficial for every dog

🐾 How to identify if your dog struggles with walks

🐾 Enrichment activities that provide mental and physical stimulation

🐾 How giving dogs choices helps build confidence

🐾 The emotional impact of changing your routine and overcoming guilt

🐾 Everything you need to know about #DontWalkYourDogDay and how to get involved

Key Takeaways:

• Some dogs experience stress or anxiety on walks, and forcing them outside daily isn’t always the best solution.
• Activities like scent work, puzzle games, free work, and interactive play can be more fulfilling than a walk.
• Giving your dog choices—like picking a chew or deciding where to explore—can help them feel safer and more confident.
• Pet parents should trust their instincts—if walks feel stressful, it’s okay to change things up.
• #DontWalkYourDogDay (April 2nd) raises awareness and supports pet parents in exploring alternatives to traditional walks.

Join the Conversation:

💬 Do you have a dog that struggles with walks? Have you tried enrichment instead? Tag us on social media and let us know what works for you!

🎧 If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with fellow dog lovers!

👉 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts!

Welcome to the Yappy Hour powered by

Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers

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who want to better understand and

support their four legged friends.

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I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy and today

we're talking about something that might

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surprise you, why daily dog walks aren't

always the best thing for your dog.

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My guest is Niki French, dog

trainer, author and creator of

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hashtag don't walk your dog day.

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Niki's book, Stop Walking Your Dog,

challenges the idea that every dog needs

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a daily walk and she's on a mission

to help pet parents find alternative

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ways to meet their dog's needs.

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In this episode, we dive

into why traditional walks

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can sometimes be difficult.

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do more harm than good, what to

do instead, and how pet parents

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of sensitive, nervous or anxious

dogs can feel less isolated.

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Whether you're rethinking your daily

walks or just curious about a fresh

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approach to enrichment, this episode

is packed with useful insights.

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So grab a cup of tea, settle

in, and let's get started.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Welcome back to the Yappy

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Hour, powered by Yappily.

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I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and

I'm so excited to bring you another

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episode of the Yappy Hour today.

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Even more exciting that we've got the

lovely Niki from PopTalk joining me today.

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Niki is a dog trainer,

author, podcaster herself.

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focused on helping dogs that

struggle in the outside world.

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Niki is an advocate for alternative

ways to meet a dog's needs

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needs beyond traditional walks.

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She's the creator of hashtag don't

walk your dog day, which we're

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going to be chatting about in

today's episode, which is all about

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encouraging owners or pet parents to

rethink how they support their dogs.

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So I'm so excited to have Niki with us.

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today.

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Niki, welcome to the yuppie hour.

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How are you?

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So you're a

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Niki French: I've done a few

podcasts of my own and much more

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relaxing being on the other side.

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Thanks for having me.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

host to yourself of your own podcast,

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which we'll be chatting about, but

normally you're the one in the, you

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know, doing the interviewing and

that now it's sort of roles reversed.

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I'm sure you've been guests

on other podcasts as well.

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So it's nice to be in, you know,

in the other seat, but no, it's

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great to have you with us today.

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today.

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Thank you for taking the time.

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I'm so excited to dive in.

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There's, we've got lots

to cover off today.

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So for those Niki, who may not know

you yet, which I find hard to believe,

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let me just have a little segue here

because three different guests that

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I've interviewed, I've all said,

you must get Niki on the yappy hour.

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So I had Andrew Howe and then

Sarah Jones is a friend of yours.

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And then.

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Danny from Tug Enough, they all

said, right, you need to get Niki on.

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So I was like, right, I already

had my sign anyway that I

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had to, you're on my list.

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But now the universe was telling me

to reach out and that's what I did.

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So can you just tell us a little bit

about yourself, Pup Talk and what

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inspired your training journey, please?

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Niki French: Yeah, I'd love to.

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Oh, that's so special.

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You know, I've met so many

incredible people in this industry.

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So A little bit of history

of how I got into this.

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I mean, I've only been a

dog trainer for six years

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

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Niki French: yeah, it's a

complete career change for me.

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So I was animal mad as a kid like

I was feral barefooted trees.

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I thought I could tame wild squirrels.

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I was born in Yorkshire and some

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Love that.

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Aww.

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Niki French: in, in Yorkshire and they

had working sheep dogs and summer holidays

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were just Dillick like they'd always be

a new new batch of puppies to play with

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and I'd be playing with the sheep dogs

when they weren't working and like it

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was just it was just a dream childhood.

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And then fast forward 30 years and

I've like got this corporate life.

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How

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, I, I know the feeling.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Niki French: I don't know, then I

didn't really think working with

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dogs other than, you know, as a kid

I thought I'll be a vet and then I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh yes.

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Niki French: pleasant side

of being a vet and I thought,

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well, I don't want to do that.

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So I didn't

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

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Niki French: it was an

option to work with animals.

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There wasn't, you know, I didn't think I

could go off and be a behaviourist then.

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So So I got a proper job and then fast

forward to, gosh, where are we now?

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2014 I had a bicycle accident.

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I was knocked off my bike,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh my goodness.

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Niki French: a, a little bit of a

brain injury, nothing massive, but

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I had short term memory issues and.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Niki French: It really, it's

hard to explain, it kind of,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Was it in that epiphany moment or?

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Niki French: it came, it did come,

but I used to sit in board meetings

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and I'd be fine and I'd be doing

this, that and the other and I've

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travelled all over the world and it

was all, you know, it was kind of quite

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exciting, quite fun, I enjoyed it.

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And then over about three years

after the bike accident, I

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just kind of crumbled a bit.

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That's all I can kind of describe it as.

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I just wasn't the same

resilient person that I was.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Niki French: bit of a light,

but there was no light bulb.

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There was no kind of like, I

was just, I just remember panic

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of, I can't keep doing this.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

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Niki French: with the rest of my life?

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And.

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It was, I'd had four cats,

because I couldn't even have a

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dog, because I worked long hours.

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I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yep.

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Niki French: two moggies and then

two Siamese, because I thought,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, lovely.

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Niki French: can have?

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and I had a chance conversation with a

friend and a friend of hers, and she was

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a chef, and she said, oh, I'm thinking

about quitting at my job as a chef.

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I'm going to get a dog, and I

think I might become a dog trainer.

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That was

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

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Niki French: moment.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Niki French: I'm going to do.

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Like it was

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Niki French: as day.

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So I resigned two days later.

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That was

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh my god.

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Ha.

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Niki French: woman of action.

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And in March 2019, I set up my business.

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So it was a light bulb, but it took three,

three years to find that light bulb.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Sometimes it does.

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Yeah.

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You know, got to wait for it all to align.

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Niki French: yeah.

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And it was like, and I, and I, I, as

soon as that, those words were uttered,

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I've never had a second's doubt.

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that that was

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.

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Niki French: doing at this.

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It was,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Amazing.

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Niki French: never have,

you know, in all that time.

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So I started off doing some dog walking

while I was training to become a

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

As you do.

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Yep.

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Niki French: I wanted to get my

hands on as many different dogs as I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yep.

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Yep.

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Niki French: very quickly, I I've

always been keen on rescue dogs and,

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and, and, and I was very keen to work

with dogs and provide dog walks for

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the dogs that couldn't go on pack walks

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Niki French: So I, I didn't realize I was

niching, but I kind of was very early on.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yep.

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Niki French: actually some of

my clients, you know, had quite

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dog and people reactive dogs.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

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Niki French: With the owner's

consent, those dog walks often

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didn't involve a walk at all.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Niki French: around to the house and

sometimes, and sometimes the clients

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would be working from home and I would

still go around to the house and give the

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dogs an hour of relationship building, of

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Niki French: all of

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Enrichment.

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Yeah.

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Niki French: do today.

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But it started off with, well, I was

hired to be a dog walker, and then I'd

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talk to them and say, well, actually,

they're really struggling on the walk.

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Can I do this instead?

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So

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh wow.

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Niki French: learning ground for me.

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So I felt like I learned

an awful lot very quickly.

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And yet I still feel I know nothing.

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So I'm still very humble in that way.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

The same.

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Niki French: it was like

rescues, rehomes, nervous dogs.

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All of that was sort of what I,

I started started off of doing.

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And that's really how PupTalk came about.

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My local

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Love the name.

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Niki French: Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

name as well.

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Niki French: something

that covered everything.

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My local business is

Twickenham Dog Services from a

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes,

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Niki French: of

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

saw that.

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Niki French: because I live

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Niki French: But PupTalk is,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Nice.

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Niki French: enough to get people

talking about dogs, so I, I can,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

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Niki French: to cover all sorts of things.

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So that's kind of how it came about,

but it feels like it's always,

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it's just always meant to be.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

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Some synergy going on because I was in

corporate the corporate world as well.

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I was in banking for sort of 15 years.

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So I didn't get to travel the world

with that, but I, you know, I am

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quite well traveled because I love

my holidays and I lived in Australia.

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I met my husband there, but yeah,

started in the corporate banking world.

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Ended up with no job and started

up two businesses in the same day

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with no job or no money behind me.

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But I've only been in the pet

industry for seven years myself.

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So I feel fairly, you know, fairly new

to some of the other giants that we kind

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of, you know, we share circles with.

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Yeah, that's quite a nice

sort of synergy there with us.

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So we're both fairly new into it all

and come from a corporate background,

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and we just knew we just knew we had

to get out because back then I'd say

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that the bank that I used to work

was Barclays, and I had blue running

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through my veins, I'd say, and I didn't

ever see myself out of that career

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because I joined from school as well,

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Niki French: everyone.

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Bye.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

brilliant.

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So your book, Stop Walking

Your Dog has such a bold title.

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Now I kind of understand where

that's come from now, but what's

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the core message behind behind it?

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Why did you write it?

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Niki French: Yeah, I love writing.

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I knew I wanted to write a dog training

book at some point, but there's

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quite a lot of dog training books.

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How many do we have on our bookshelves?

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We were talking about it

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

We were just saying, yeah.

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Niki French: even read them all yet.

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You know, there's plenty of

dog training books out there.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: They are

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Niki French: but there was always

this thought, this hope in the back

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of my brain that I would write a book

about dog training at some point.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: amazing.

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Niki French: in lockdown, I started

working online, like a lot of us,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

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Niki French: I had a number of

clients that were, that their dogs

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were really struggling on walks.

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They were really struggling on walks.

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They were noise sensitive, worried

about dogs, worried about people.

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You know, most of their walks were quite

a stressful event for the dog and their

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

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Niki French: And.

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Repeatedly putting a dog in a situation

that they don't have the skills to cope.

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doesn't help them It's just adding

to their stresses constantly.

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It's just constantly reinforcing

the fact that yes, I'm right.

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This is a scary world and was the

second time I said on one of these

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sessions, need to stop walking your dog.

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And, and I took, and then I was

just like, I wrote that down.

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And I thought that that

is the title of the book.

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And that is the topic.

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And

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Great.

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Niki French: then another beautiful

light bulb, happy accident.

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I started writing nine months

later, it was published.

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It was just,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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Niki French: was there and it was in,

I mean, I'm not saying it was easy.

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It was a lot of hard

work, but it was in me.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

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Niki French: So it was just about having

the hook and, you know, my, my corporate

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life, I was in sales and marketing.

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So I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

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Niki French: element of me that

kind of goes, I, I get the need

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to the sizzle on the sausage.

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I hate that phrase terribly, but you

need something that grabs people.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

You do, you do.

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And it's certainly very eye

catching and grabbing the attention.

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Niki French: yeah, so it was definitely,

it's a title that really grabs

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people, but it also challenges people.

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And I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

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Niki French: that.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Got my coffee here.

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My side coffee must, I must, I must add.

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Niki French: And so the, so

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Thank you.

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Niki French: nervous, the nervous and the

anxious clients that I was working with.

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And there was also my own dog, Bodhi.

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So Bodhi is a batty rescue boy, and

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

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Niki French: came to us when

he was eight months old.

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He's a collie lurcher.

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He'd been in and out of Battersea

twice by the age of eight months for

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nothing more than over exuberance.

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And with hindsight, actually quite a lot

of worry again, quite a sensitive dog,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

People just don't understand, do they?

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Wow.

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Niki French: It was a turning point for

us, my boyfriend and I, when we were,

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we were walking him twice a day and I

was learning to be a dog trainer and I

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was thinking, Oh dear Lord, if I can't

help him, how can I help my clients?

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You know, I felt like I was

doing a really bad job with him.

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And there was plenty of tears around,

you know, struggling with a young

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adolescent dog that went from 22 kilos

to 34 kilos, fully grown, big enough.

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Was a

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

strong boy.

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Niki French: and, and.

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We, we decided to ditch the evening

walk and that changed everything.

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Like in the evenings, late

afternoons, even like witching

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hour wasn't witching hour.

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It was like witching four hours.

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It was a

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

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Niki French: As soon as we

ditched the second walk in

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the day, everything changed.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

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Niki French: less than the time that

we spent with that second walk, we

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started doing small bursts of little.

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Brain games, enrichment games, like

all of the kind of stuff that I talk

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about, that was a turning point.

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And even

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Lovely.

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Niki French: most, most of the

time, and he's six now, most of

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the time he only gets one walk.

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And sometimes he might

not even get a walk.

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He'll get a duvet day

and we'll do other stuff.

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And it was a turning point for him.

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So it was another of example of the fact

that this isn't a message just for the

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dogs that are a bit nervous out there.

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looks like the most Ridiculously

friendly dog ever, but he

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Niki French: overwhelming

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Niki French: then doesn't

know what to do with himself.

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So for him, it worked really, really

well to not be in this, I must walk

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my dog two to three times a day.

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So,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I think we're conditioned.

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I've said this before, as, as, as

he, as Brits, as humans, like we're

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conditioned that I must walk my

dog twice a day for an hour a day.

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But in some instances with certain

dogs that that could be worse

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for them and they don't need it.

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Do the, the brain games, the

sniffy stuff, the enrichment,

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the mental stimulation instead.

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Yes.

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Niki French: then you can add

into that, like sometimes, like,

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you know, lockdown, we were only

supposed to go out once a day.

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So, like,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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Niki French: it might be that

the dog is you know, this might

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not just be behavioural stuff.

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It can be physical stuff.

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There might be some kind of injury

they're recuperating from or some

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illness, either for the dog or the human.

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It might be horrible weather,

too cold, too wet, too hot.

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Might be pre vaccination puppies.

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It might be aging dogs

that can't walk as well.

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far as they used to, but they still

have mental and physical needs.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

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Niki French: be a bitching season

that you don't want to have out in

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the middle of the park and, you know,

have an untoward coupling happen.

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So there's, you know, it's

not just behavioural stuff.

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If.

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If your dog is used to having things

mixed up a little bit, doing things

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differently, then if you need to

change that routine, like say your dog

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walks, say your dog walks are amazing,

like no one should stop doing them.

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sometimes it's good to have other

things in your toolkit for when you

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Definitely.

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Niki French: know, so

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

definitely.

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Love that.

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Absolutely love that.

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And we were just saying before we came

on about we've got all these different

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books, but I like to support other dog

trainers as well when they have a book.

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So I like to get the book in.

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But I definitely will be making a

conscious effort to read this one because

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as well, it's a manageable size as well.

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And and I like that.

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So yeah, I'm really excited to read it.

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And

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Niki French: read.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, it's,

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Niki French: not a dog

trainer behaviour book.

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It's a very,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

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Niki French: that's only just got a dog,

they should be able to read it and go, Oh,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

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Niki French: I can do this.

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I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I can relate to that.

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Yeah, I love that.

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I absolutely love that.

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Thank you so much for telling us more

about the story behind your book.

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So we're going to be moving on to

our next section now, which we've

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touched on a little bit, but just

the myth of, of myth, the, the myth.

396

I can't get my words out.

397

Here we go.

398

The myths of daily dog

walks, that's a mouthful.

399

So why walking isn't always the best?

400

So many people, like we said, assume that

daily walks are essential for all dogs.

401

But why do you think

is the time to change?

402

this narrative now.

403

Niki French: I think I think That,

that social norm, that pressure on us,

404

like, I think so many people think,

well, I'll, you know, I have a dog, I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I must, that's what I said, we're

406

like, we're conditioned, aren't we?

407

Niki French: help.

408

It was, I was listening to your

episode with Vicky Mane and

409

I thought that was brilliant.

410

At the start, she was saying how that

with Sam, she said it felt completely

411

counterintuitive to stop walking him.

412

does.

413

Like, it

414

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

415

Niki French: Because it is just

part of our psyche of having a dog.

416

And, and even, you know, when I talk to

people that are, they're you know, they're

417

generally pretty connected with their

dogs, and their gut is telling them one

418

thing, that there's something in this

is not working, it's not right for them,

419

but there's still, might be partners,

family, friends, they're often getting

420

those sort of differences of opinion

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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And that's the,

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Niki French: advice, and it

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

everyone thinks they're an expert.

425

Niki French: conflict you know,

all that well meaning advice of,

426

oh, just, Keep doing it and they'll

get better with it, or people can

427

get for not taking their dogs out

428

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

429

Niki French: know it's really

hard and it's really stressful and

430

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

431

Niki French: I think the social pressure

is there, but it's going to take us.

432

Talking like we are about these topics,

433

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: exactly.

434

Niki French: to help the people that

in most of the people that have a dog

435

that struggles on a walk, their gut is

telling them, this isn't the way to go.

436

And I think it's giving them

the feeling of permission

437

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

438

Niki French: can act on those feelings.

439

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that's it.

440

Yeah.

441

Niki French: that's a thing.

442

And, you know, yeah, yeah, I

think that's what I was saying.

443

Right.

444

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, no, that's great.

445

I mean, I was chatting to Sue Williamson

the other day consent based groomer.

446

So another little reveal for our

listeners, the episode is coming

447

soon, but, but, you know, she works

with sort of anxious and nervous dogs

448

and, you know, she said she had an

owner that basically was like, Oh,

449

I'll let it have a run around for

two hours before it comes to you.

450

And she was like, no.

451

Do not let it run around because

that's just going to make it worse.

452

Getting more head up, the buckets becoming

more full, just do some sniffy work

453

with him and brain games instead and

that'll just help promote the calmness.

454

But yeah, that's what it's just, we're

just wired to think, oh, that's okay.

455

We're getting, get him walking,

that'll burn off his, his energy.

456

But that's, you know, we

don't know what we don't know.

457

It's good that we're having these

conversations to just, I'm really, I'm

458

really big on education, the pet parents.

459

So the more we can get these conversations

out there, you know, the better what

460

are some of the signs that a dog might

actually benefit from fewer walk?

461

Yeah, yeah,

462

Niki French: I think

463

if when you're out on a walk,

they're not able to the food

464

that they normally would endorse.

465

That's a big flag for me.

466

It may be they're too excited.

467

It may be they're too stressed.

468

You know, if they're in that fight or

flight state, even if they don't look

469

like they're trying to fight or flee you

know, if their stomach has shut down.

470

That

471

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

472

Niki French: they're

not in a good headspace.

473

They're not able to learn.

474

They're probably not able to process.

475

It's just a very reactive state to be in.

476

So, you know, not being able

to take food, I think, is big.

477

Also not being able to drink.

478

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

479

Yeah, I've never thought

of that one before.

480

Niki French: instance, I've been at

dog shows and we do the yellow space

481

zones with my anxious dog, with Sarah.

482

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm hmm.

483

Niki French: a massive thing because

the dogs out on the show, when they

484

come in and they get a bit of time

out in a yellow space zone, which is.

485

sort of like a decompression

thing away from walking in a busy

486

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I love that idea.

487

Niki French: can suddenly have a drink.

488

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

489

Niki French: guardians go, oh, they,

they, we gave them, we offered them water

490

up until now and they couldn't drink.

491

And it's because

492

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

493

Niki French: you know, so

little things like that.

494

If you carry water with you and you offer

it to your dog, if they can't drink, is

495

it because they're not thirsty or is it

because they're a bit too stressed to to

496

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Well, yeah.

497

I never even thought about water.

498

I thought about food, but never water.

499

Wow.

500

Niki French: Yeah,

501

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, that's so interesting.

502

Niki French: just be increased panting or

something like that, you know, and, and

503

thinking, is it 'cause it's a bit warmer?

504

Is it 'cause they've been running around?

505

Or is it just 'cause their sta their

status, you know, got heightened.

506

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

507

Niki French: and I think it's just,

you know, observe your dog, you know.

508

to know your dog, but those are

probably or if there's little tricks

509

that they know if they love a little

hand touch game or they love putting

510

their paws up on something if you're

in a situation where you invite them

511

to do it and they can't do it, but

you know, normally they love it again.

512

That gives you really

useful information like

513

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

514

Sure.

515

Niki French: I used to

use that as a sort of a.

516

like a check in with Bodhi as

to whether I would think am I

517

going to let him off lead or not?

518

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

519

Niki French: spent a long time

using a long line with him

520

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

521

Niki French: that little, like,

is your brain with me or are

522

you completely, you know, as

523

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

524

You're gone.

525

Niki French: in the building.

526

So,

527

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

528

Niki French: to know what your dog

could normally do and yeah, test that.

529

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Read the signs.

530

Yeah.

531

Like you say, just really get

to know and understand your dog.

532

I love the name Bodhi, by the

way, absolutely love that name.

533

Niki French: all, Ash and I are

old enough to know Bodhi and Doyle.

534

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Right, okay, yeah, no worries.

535

I only know Bodhi off a, I only know Bodhi

off a TV programme, but I'm sorry, yeah.

536

That LAUGHS Right lovely name though.

537

Right, so what would your

response to people who say, but

538

dogs need exercise, don't they?

539

Niki French: Yeah.

540

I, you know, you, you can, you can get

physical exercise and mental enrichment.

541

And I think, and stimulation, I think we

need to put all of those things together.

542

Like you can get those in

so many different ways.

543

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

544

LAUGHS Mmm.

545

Niki French: Maybe they've taken their

dog to the park, and they've got their

546

dreaded ball chucker, their brawl

flinger, and the dog's barking at them

547

as soon as they're in the park, and

they're off the lead, and then they

548

fling the ball, and they run from the

ball, and they come back, and they bark,

549

bark, bark, bark, bark, fling the ball.

550

You know, okay, so that dog is

getting exercise aside from the

551

argument about what it might be

doing from a repetitive strain

552

injury, or other things that could be

553

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah

554

Niki French: yes, it's running its

little legs off, or its long legs off

555

but I, you know, I, I think you can

get a very fit dog but not one that is

556

enriched in a physical, mental, way.

557

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

558

LAUGHS

559

Niki French: it's, there are so

many ways that you can give your

560

dog exercise and faster, longer,

harder is definitely not better.

561

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

562

Niki French: simple ways of dogs getting

great exercise without even going outside.

563

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

564

Niki French: you know, there are,

and sniffing, sniffing is exhausting.

565

You know, if you look at how many, how

many times a dog breathes in and out when

566

there's truly sniffing something, like if

you actually try it yourself to breathe at

567

the speed that they free that they breathe

out, like you'll pass out within about

568

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It's insane.

569

Niki French: it's exhausting and their

brain is processing all that incredible

570

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

571

Niki French: So getting away

from this, my dog needs to do.

572

X amount of hours, X amount of miles.

573

They need, you know, yes, that we want

them to run and move freely, but there's

574

a, there's different ways of doing things

575

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

576

Niki French: Can help them live a

very full and rich and longer life

577

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's

578

Niki French: than, than just exercise.

579

It's all about exercise.

580

Frog March.

581

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

very regimental.

582

And I think again, it just comes back

to education because like with the

583

ball for like, again, we don't know,

like they don't, the pet owner doesn't

584

necessarily know that that could cause

like, you know, be causing problems

585

with like with their joints and stuff.

586

And if it's like you know, for five or

10 minutes, that might be okay, but not.

587

not like repetitively,

like for an hour or so.

588

And, you know, obviously they

don't necessarily always know.

589

This is why it's good to sort of talk

about is that, you know, just doing 20

590

minutes brain sniffy work is just the same

as a 60 minute outdoor walk in terms of

591

the brain and mental stimulation again.

592

So if we could just get that message

out there more and just educate

593

more, that's important, isn't it?

594

Niki French: Mm.

595

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah brilliant.

596

Thank you for that.

597

So we're going to be moving on to our

next section, which is alternative

598

ways to meet a dog's needs.

599

So if a dog doesn't go for a walk, what

are some alternative ways to give them the

600

exercise and enrichment they would need?

601

Late.

602

Niki French: Oh, there's so

many, there's so many things,

603

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

we'll have to keep it late.

604

Niki French: I'm going to

start off with Ace Free Work

605

because it is just phenomenal.

606

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it is.

607

Niki French: to exercise your

dog without them running at all.

608

It's mind blowing.

609

So, obviously founded by

the wonderful Sarah Fisher,

610

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

611

Niki French: engage their senses.

612

You can get them sniffing,

licking, chewing, foraging in a

613

way that they find beautifully.

614

tiring, but it calms their mind.

615

It can really help them

to release body tension.

616

So, you know, it can help that physical

and emotional stress that they might

617

be feeling and they can just enjoy some

incredible connections with their human.

618

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

619

Niki French: bond and it's all

done in a stress free environment.

620

Now you can do ACE free work

out and about, but the best

621

place is to start at home or in

622

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

623

Niki French: If you've got the

smallest outside space, you don't

624

need to buy a load of equipment.

625

You can just buy, you can, you can

just, you'll find stuff around your

626

house, plant pots, yoga mats, like

627

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it.

628

Yeah.

629

Niki French: work is just.

630

for exercise and enrichment and the

dogs inherently know how to move their

631

bodies in the way that benefits them.

632

If we are not flinging balls and

food and do this and do that.

633

Like, you know, I'm a trainer

and I can get very trainer y.

634

But if I take my trainer hat off and set

up stations for Bodhi to just be a dog.

635

He knows how to be a dog and he's really

good at it if I let him, you know,

636

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

637

Niki French: that that is

probably one for people to

638

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

639

Niki French: Google,

Google Ace free work and,

640

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

641

Niki French: know, your

dog will thank you for it.

642

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

643

We we've got Sarah coming on soon.

644

Sorry.

645

Yeah.

646

Sarah's coming on.

647

So just, just, she's a very

busy lady and populated.

648

I'm just trying to book in a

date, but she has agreed to

649

coming on to, to the happy hour.

650

And then Sue Williamson was obviously

talking about ACE freeworks that helps

651

with the agreement and environment.

652

So just for our listeners, ACE

is Animal Centred Education.

653

I actually got a book of Sarah's day.

654

So another one to.

655

To sort of read up on as well.

656

So but yeah, hopefully

we'll get a one soon.

657

So yeah.

658

Ace free.

659

What, what else is in

your, in your toolbox?

660

Niki French: you know,

661

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

662

Niki French: work, whether it is going off

and doing it with, with someone, you know,

663

with an organization or one to one, but

like every dog can do scent, scent work.

664

You can do scent work around the home.

665

You can hide some treats and

toys and blah, blah, blah.

666

So, you know, scent work is the easiest

way to get your dog, know, moving nicely

667

and you know, using their nose, using

their brain, having a fun time with you.

668

So

669

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

670

Niki French: home.

671

Man trailing.

672

pet trailing, hoopers, agility,

hiring private fields, you know,

673

going somewhere for a swim in a,

in a river or a sea that's safer.

674

You know, there's so many

things that don't have to be

675

a walk for exercise or the

676

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's it.

677

Yeah.

678

Niki French: but there is a dog that

they, they, they're bonded with,

679

or even a, you know, a friend or a

neighbor that, you know, has a garden.

680

Even just going around with

your dog for your dog to

681

experience someone else's garden

682

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

All the smiles.

683

Niki French: yeah, all the different

smells and the foxes and the

684

hedgehogs would have, that would

have been in that garden is probably

685

different in their own garden.

686

And, you know, you don't need to

spend money on hiring a private field.

687

If you've,

688

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

689

Niki French: people that you can just

call a favorite and go, can I come around

690

and borrow your garden for half an hour?

691

You know,

692

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Love that.

693

Niki French: that you can do.

694

It doesn't, this is not

about spending money.

695

Know,

696

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

697

Niki French: things, and all of these

things that you're doing with your dog,

698

like, you're there with them, like, your

relationship will, will only benefit

699

from it, you know, and obviously their,

their mental and physical well being

700

only stands to, to, to benefit from it.

701

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

702

Absolutely love that.

703

Even just with a, an Amazon box or

parcel and all the parcel stuff, put

704

in some treats and just get them using

their nose and snuffling around for it.

705

Yeah.

706

Niki French: I

707

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: stuff.

708

Niki French: bad habit that

my boyfriend life laughs at.

709

We have a spare bedroom.

710

There's so many boxes in there.

711

I can't throw them away.

712

I can't.

713

'cause every time I go and

see a client, I think, right?

714

Have I got a dog?

715

Have I got a box that's big

enough for a rot, rot, Rottweiler?

716

Have I got one that's good

enough for a miniature dax?

717

And so I ha I, I need them all.

718

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I love.

719

Niki French: at me like

you got, get rid of some.

720

I can't.

721

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Well,

they're a tool, they're a tool for your

722

business, so we all need our tools.

723

Brilliant.

724

So some great some great options there.

725

So how does giving the dogs choices

rather than forcing them into situations

726

help build their confidence, Niki?

727

Niki French: Lives, they

have so little choice.

728

They have so little

opportunity to make choice.

729

And, you know, fundamentally

a dog wants to feel safe.

730

Like Andy Hale's episode with you.

731

Brilliant.

732

People need to go back and listen

to that if they haven't heard of it.

733

you know, they,

734

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

loved it.

735

Niki French: they can make.

736

So if it's something that they're

feeling a little bit uncertain about,

737

If they're given the choices to, do they

738

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

739

Okay.

740

Niki French: But it's got to be in

a way that's, that's right for me.

741

So if, if they feel listened to, you

know, we're not luring them and coaxing

742

them with food to go towards something

that they're worried about, if they

743

understand that they can trust us,

that we're not going to put them in

744

that situation where they don't feel

safe, they will grow their trust in us.

745

And they will see us as, as,

as a means to be able to go,

746

actually, no, I can rely on you.

747

Okay.

748

I know you're not going to put me

somewhere where I'm not, not feeling okay.

749

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

750

Niki French: So I think that that's,

that's quite an important thing.

751

But yeah, it's, it's, it's just

magical when, when, when you don't

752

put pressure on dogs to do something.

753

And you know, that's sort of in a sort

of a behaviour sense, but even, even

754

just giving them a little bit more

agency in their own life, a little

755

bit more choice in their own life.

756

And I can, I can give you some examples

of that, if that, if that's useful.

757

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, yeah.

758

I mean, please, please do.

759

Yeah.

760

Let's, let's, let's delve into that.

761

Niki French: Yeah, so I think,

you know, it comes to things like

762

enrichment Something like that, it's

so simple, but you know, we buy massive

763

bags of tripe sticks and rabbit's

ears and all that kind of stuff.

764

I'm a big fan of natural chews for Bodhi.

765

It's

766

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

And the same,

767

Niki French: decompress.

768

Like, you know, it looks like

a horrible animal body part

769

in one cupboard in my kitchen.

770

All those tripe sticks, there might

be lots of different sizes and shapes.

771

They all smell disgusting to me.

772

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

To them, it's like, whoa,

773

Niki French: why should I pick

one out and give it to him?

774

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

let him chase.

775

Niki French: I'm giving you this one.

776

And that's a beautiful thing for me to do.

777

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

778

But there's nothing wrong with me

getting out three or five of them and

779

popping them down on the floor and

780

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Love that.

781

Niki French: sniffing them

all, and then he'll go back and

782

then he'll pick up that one.

783

I've no idea why.

784

And then he'll run off, please just punch.

785

And it's a different kind of happy trot

786

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Love that.

787

Yes.

788

Yeah.

789

Yeah.

790

Niki French: out a few and

say, go, you can pick one.

791

And not many dogs will run along and

try and pick them all up and run off.

792

Maybe.

793

You know, or if you put down some

kind of something for licking, you

794

know, different licky mat textures

or things like that, you know, we

795

give them something on a lick mat.

796

Here you go.

797

what if you had a couple

of different textures?

798

It might be something smooth.

799

It might be one of the slightly

more textured, bobbly lick mats.

800

Maybe you've got the same thing on both.

801

This is kind of ace free work principles

of giving them some kind of choice.

802

You can pop both down.

803

Maybe one's at a slightly different

height to the other one, or maybe

804

one's at a slightly angle to a flat

and see, which do they seem to prefer?

805

Or do they just like both of them?

806

Like it

807

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

808

Niki French: them information

and they get to choose and

809

they get to express themselves.

810

So, so I think there's huge power in

little choices because they don't,

811

you know, we say we're getting up now.

812

We say we're going for a walk now.

813

Yes, you can go in the garden.

814

No, you come in from the garden.

815

Yes, you will put this on.

816

Like they don't have a lot

of choice in their lives.

817

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

818

Niki French: intelligent beings not

819

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

They are.

820

Niki French: have many choices in life.

821

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So it's

all about choice and consent which I love.

822

So I think we might have sort

of touched on our next question

823

just some simple enrichment ideas

that owners can try right away.

824

Obviously the one with

the Amazon box and the

825

Niki French: Yeah.

826

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

and, you know, have you got any

827

other sort of quick enrichment ideas?

828

Niki French: low sided cardboard box.

829

I was always always say to

people like start simple,

830

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

831

Niki French: a box where there's flaps

that might worry them or they might

832

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Of course.

833

Niki French: you know, cut the sides

down, make it really easy for them to

834

just poke their nose into if they want to,

and always have food around the outside.

835

So if they don't want to put their

head into the box, they don't have

836

to, they can still get food that

might be just somewhere near the box.

837

I'm all about recycling.

838

So cardboard, any, any recycling you

can use in so many different ways.

839

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

840

Niki French: like, you know, the dog

towels, we all have umpteen dog towels,

841

you know, just scattering some food in a

towel, scrunching it up, rolling it up.

842

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

843

Niki French: a lot of different things.

844

Just keep it fun.

845

You know, this is not meant

to be an ordeal in order

846

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

847

Niki French: food.

848

This is meant to just kind of

engage seeking system, get them

849

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

850

Niki French: if they're tail wagging,

do they look happy with the experience

851

or are they just ragging it around?

852

Cause they're a bit annoyed and

they just want to have dinner.

853

So, you know, read your

dog things to sniff.

854

Like when I come in from, I

don't know, food shopping or

855

coming in from seeing clients.

856

Bodhi wants to sniff me up and

down, my bags, I'll put my rucksack

857

down, and in effect I'm, I'm just

there as a sniffing object for him.

858

I'm

859

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

860

Niki French: enrichment and I just sit

861

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Your shoes

862

Niki French: there let him give me

a good old sniff until he's done.

863

Like that's enrichment.

864

Like it doesn't, I think we have

to think it's all food related.

865

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

doesn't have.

866

Niki French: some, some dogs that

you know, perhaps they can't go on as

867

many walks bringing outside smells.

868

So it might be you bring some clippings

from somebody else, or you bring in a

869

little bit of a or something like that.

870

Or I know one person, their dog was not

mobile at all, but very scent driven.

871

And she used to get some little cloths in

Ziploc bags, and she'd rub the cloths on

872

little points along the walk and put them

into the Ziploc bag and take them back.

873

And then she could lay out like a

sensory experience in the space that

874

the dog was comfortable exploring.

875

So, you know, the little pee

posts, the pee mail would come

876

in for this dog to experience.

877

So it's not all about food.

878

So if people say, Oh, my dog's not

foodie and all that kind of stuff,

879

like, you know, it can be other things.

880

If anybody gets raw food or gets any

other kind of anything that comes in

881

that needs to be kept chilled, you've

got that natural sheep's wool packaging.

882

So

883

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

884

Niki French: It's smelly

ish, but it's not horrendous.

885

Things like that can be amazing.

886

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

887

Niki French: to get them sniffing

and enjoying with digging.

888

I mean, I, you know, Bodhi used to be

a massive digger when we first got him.

889

Our garden was just carnage, but we

taught him to dig in our compost heap.

890

So we taught him that over and

we also built a digging pit

891

that's got play sand in it.

892

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

893

Niki French: you know, digging

is, is, is an enrichment and,

894

and rather than us thinking, Oh,

how can I stop my dog digging?

895

Give them a space to dig.

896

Like they're dogs.

897

A lot of dogs want to dig and it's great

898

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

899

Niki French: and they enjoy it.

900

So there's lots of different

ways you can give them

901

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: saw

someone had brought in some leaves,

902

just some crack crackly just the leaves.

903

So they just like, they were all crispy.

904

That's the word I was going for.

905

Niki French: Okay.

906

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

choose his.

907

So when I was doing puppy, when I was

teaching in person, puppy classes,

908

obviously we'd encourage the pet parent

to identify a high value treat or reward

909

and something different from like their

normal boring treats or their, their food.

910

And a lot of them did struggle to that.

911

Oh, okay.

912

But I used to like doing telling them

to do the taste test So I was like

913

put some cheese under one and put some

chicken or something else but a steak

914

under another cup but let them go along

to the different cups that are covered

915

over and let them pick the the, the the

high value treats rather than you tell

916

them, here's your high value reward.

917

And they were like, Oh, okay.

918

Yeah.

919

That's, that sounds like a good, it's

to let the dog choose to their, their

920

tree and their high value reward.

921

He used to love saying that

922

Niki French: I love that.

923

And, and what they pick one time might

924

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

it might be different.

925

Niki French: they pick another.

926

Like, you

927

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

And I said, Oh, they might,

928

Niki French: can

929

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

said, they might pick two

930

things and that's fine.

931

Or Yeah, and that's okay.

932

Like, let them choose.

933

Brilliant.

934

Thank you so much.

935

So we're going to move on to the emotional

impact on our pet parents, our guardians.

936

So many pet parents, Niki,

feel guilty if they don't take

937

their dog for a walk every day.

938

How can we shift that way of thinking?

939

Niki French: Yeah, that's a

it's a massive one for people.

940

I think trying to find something fun

at home that you can do so that your

941

dog is having a fun time with you.

942

You know, it might just be hiding

a toy around the place or learning

943

a new trick or hiding some treats

around or something like that.

944

So trying to.

945

do something where you can see they

are quite clearly having fun with you.

946

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

947

Niki French: I think that can be a

positive reinforcer for yourself.

948

I think connecting with people

that share a similar mindset,

949

you know, this might be online.

950

It, it, it, you know, there's people in my

membership, like, they, they do not think

951

two daily, two walks a day is the norm.

952

Like there are spaces, there are

people like you you need to find

953

those people because you are going

to face people in your daily life.

954

You may be

955

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's it.

956

Niki French: them.

957

There's often conflict.

958

you know,

959

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

960

Niki French: people that you're,

you know, that you're, that

961

you're your nearest and dearest.

962

So find some people that really

can become your tribe, because

963

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that.

964

Yeah.

965

Yeah.

966

Yeah.

967

Niki French: Some kind of notes, or some

kind of tracker like if you have a dog

968

that's reacted to dogs or people, you

start to keep some little notes of, oh,

969

you know, had a big reaction on this walk,

or only had a little reaction here, if

970

you keep some kind of diary, some kind of

tracker, what works for anybody, a little

971

notepad, or a spreadsheet, or whatever.

972

When you're working on these things, if

you are reducing the walks, shortening

973

the walks, whether you've stopped the

walks, when you start, when you're still

974

doing, when you say you are still doing

some of the walks, if you notice, well,

975

you know, if you can look back over weeks

and months and you can go, okay, well, you

976

know, this time three, three months ago.

977

was having a reaction on

like 80 percent of his walks.

978

Now we might be walking, you

know, doing shorter walks.

979

But now he's only having

reactions on 50 percent of walks.

980

if you were in that moment, you might

still, you might be thinking, Oh, he's

981

still reacting on half of his walks.

982

You have probably moved on

from the fact that he was

983

reacting on nearly all of them.

984

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

985

Niki French: So

986

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

987

Niki French: to reflect

988

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: like,

989

Niki French: I think

990

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

like a diary.

991

Niki French: Yeah, whatever works

for people, like it can help you go.

992

No, this is, this is helping, you know,

and you need to, you need to be, you need

993

to be, you need to motivate yourself to

keep going because some of these, some

994

of these things are not quick fixes.

995

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

996

Niki French: So you need to help yourself.

997

I'm a big fan for a Wins Jar.

998

This wasn't a prop, but

I have my own Wins Jar.

999

It's a, it's a

00:42:39,741 --> 00:42:40,151

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes,

00:42:40,302 --> 00:42:40,462

Niki French: vermex pot.

00:42:40,542 --> 00:42:42,022

Can you recognize the vermex

00:42:42,331 --> 00:42:42,781

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: milks.

00:42:42,821 --> 00:42:43,181

Yeah,

00:42:44,272 --> 00:42:45,792

Niki French: I write down little things

00:42:46,131 --> 00:42:46,551

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that is,

00:42:47,082 --> 00:42:48,082

Niki French: has done.

00:42:48,241 --> 00:42:48,861

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that is brilliant.

00:42:48,861 --> 00:42:50,661

But you can do that for yourself as well.

00:42:50,777 --> 00:42:51,677

Niki French: I do.

00:42:51,677 --> 00:42:52,147

I do.

00:42:52,147 --> 00:42:55,527

It's like it's my own personal

start up because I have, I have

00:42:55,527 --> 00:42:56,887

a short term memory anyway.

00:42:56,887 --> 00:42:59,527

I have memory issues, but I've

never been good at memory.

00:42:59,577 --> 00:43:01,997

Like, I've never been any

good in quizzes or anything.

00:43:02,381 --> 00:43:02,531

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Same.

00:43:02,707 --> 00:43:05,437

Niki French: I can get, you know,

I'll open that once a year maybe

00:43:05,437 --> 00:43:08,127

and go, Oh gosh, yes, I remember.

00:43:08,127 --> 00:43:10,067

And we'll say to Ash, do you

remember he used to do that?

00:43:10,127 --> 00:43:10,797

Oh gosh, yes.

00:43:10,797 --> 00:43:13,097

You know, like Bodhi's far, you

know, who wants a perfect dog?

00:43:13,097 --> 00:43:14,377

But Bodhi's far from perfect.

00:43:14,397 --> 00:43:18,057

Like, he's still a handful,

but we've come such a long way.

00:43:18,721 --> 00:43:19,121

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:43:19,787 --> 00:43:19,917

Niki French: I

00:43:20,191 --> 00:43:20,761

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: you do.

00:43:21,247 --> 00:43:24,437

Niki French: so helping to ditch

the guilt and to feel that what

00:43:24,447 --> 00:43:26,487

you're doing is, is, is working,

00:43:27,136 --> 00:43:27,586

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:43:27,857 --> 00:43:32,767

Niki French: something that, know,

is, is reinforcing what you're doing.

00:43:32,797 --> 00:43:33,497

You know, you

00:43:33,666 --> 00:43:33,876

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

brilliant.

00:43:33,927 --> 00:43:35,597

Niki French: yourself

some rewards as well.

00:43:36,296 --> 00:43:36,906

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I love that.

00:43:37,156 --> 00:43:39,696

And just for our listeners

who may not be watching, my SA

00:43:39,926 --> 00:43:41,856

dog Bailey has joined us now.

00:43:41,856 --> 00:43:47,516

So this is why I got into dog training

and became a separation anxiety behaviour

00:43:47,756 --> 00:43:52,536

consultant specialist because of my

own SA dog and wanting to help owners,

00:43:52,536 --> 00:43:54,206

but he's got a hyper attachment to me.

00:43:54,206 --> 00:43:58,166

So he's just coming, he wants to just

come and sit with me now and that's okay.

00:43:58,496 --> 00:44:01,186

So he often makes an

appearance on the yappy hour.

00:44:03,496 --> 00:44:04,416

Right, brilliant.

00:44:04,657 --> 00:44:07,067

Niki French: of jealous like that

because Bodhi's the opposite of that.

00:44:07,077 --> 00:44:09,953

He's very much, I want my own

00:44:10,166 --> 00:44:10,546

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: leave.

00:44:10,816 --> 00:44:11,736

That's a bit like what

00:44:11,987 --> 00:44:13,477

Niki French: wish what

you didn't have, I think.

00:44:13,561 --> 00:44:14,321

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, I know.

00:44:14,531 --> 00:44:18,011

Yeah, I mean, I've got seven dogs,

so I wouldn't be able to manage

00:44:18,011 --> 00:44:19,371

if they were all like Bailey.

00:44:19,591 --> 00:44:23,241

But luckily, you know, he's, he's

our special sort of boy and sort

00:44:23,241 --> 00:44:24,711

of led me into the training world.

00:44:24,711 --> 00:44:26,411

So we've all got our stories, ain't we?

00:44:27,061 --> 00:44:30,596

But it's funny because most people I

speak to on here It's because of their

00:44:30,596 --> 00:44:35,306

own dog that's kind of got them into, you

know, into training as well and stuff.

00:44:35,306 --> 00:44:37,426

So it just makes it more relatable.

00:44:37,706 --> 00:44:42,526

So Niki, you work with a lot of

pet parents who feel isolated

00:44:42,796 --> 00:44:45,686

because their dog struggles outside.

00:44:45,996 --> 00:44:50,226

What's one thing that they can do

today to help with their struggles?

00:44:52,657 --> 00:44:57,707

Niki French: I think, I think the biggest

thing is finding people like you, finding,

00:44:57,727 --> 00:44:59,707

or finding people that understand.

00:44:59,837 --> 00:45:00,157

I think

00:45:00,311 --> 00:45:00,721

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:45:00,937 --> 00:45:01,627

Niki French: huge.

00:45:01,987 --> 00:45:06,017

You know, those friends and

families are not likely to be

00:45:06,027 --> 00:45:07,927

your best source of support.

00:45:08,297 --> 00:45:09,468

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Your people.

00:45:09,468 --> 00:45:11,224

I like that.

00:45:11,224 --> 00:45:11,809

Mmm.

00:45:11,809 --> 00:45:12,394

Mmm.

00:45:12,394 --> 00:45:12,980

Yeah.

00:45:12,980 --> 00:45:13,565

Mmm.

00:45:13,565 --> 00:45:14,150

Yeah.

00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:15,321

Love that.

00:45:15,321 --> 00:45:16,492

You're not

00:45:16,878 --> 00:45:20,088

Niki French: and you know, sometimes

people that I talk to, they, they have

00:45:20,088 --> 00:45:24,118

considered rehoming, they have thought

I'm not the right person for this dog.

00:45:24,488 --> 00:45:27,928

And you know, so there's quite

serious things at stake sometimes.

00:45:27,938 --> 00:45:28,258

So,

00:45:30,788 --> 00:45:35,028

Yeah, having some connections that you

can make for yourself you know, no matter

00:45:35,028 --> 00:45:41,078

where they are, will be a way to help

them move forwards towards perhaps not the

00:45:41,088 --> 00:45:45,138

dream they envisaged before they got this

particular dog or something like that,

00:45:45,138 --> 00:45:48,208

but certainly something closer to it.

00:45:49,198 --> 00:45:50,468

And

00:45:50,622 --> 00:45:51,522

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

what people need to know.

00:45:51,522 --> 00:45:52,382

You're never alone.

00:45:53,042 --> 00:45:54,977

So there's, it is.

00:45:55,148 --> 00:45:55,938

Niki French: when you have a dog.

00:45:56,398 --> 00:45:58,278

You feel like a real social pariah

00:45:58,677 --> 00:45:59,247

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I did.

00:45:59,427 --> 00:46:00,587

I do still.

00:46:00,708 --> 00:46:01,488

Niki French: feel judged.

00:46:01,598 --> 00:46:03,578

And yeah, I mean, I still

experience, you know, Bodhi can

00:46:03,578 --> 00:46:05,368

still, you know, give it full beans.

00:46:05,368 --> 00:46:06,648

He sounds like a husky.

00:46:06,998 --> 00:46:09,768

And it's just because he's like, they

haven't turned around to look at me.

00:46:09,778 --> 00:46:10,098

And he's

00:46:10,317 --> 00:46:11,377

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

How very dare they.

00:46:13,438 --> 00:46:15,358

Niki French: And I've got dog

trainer written on my back.

00:46:15,718 --> 00:46:17,278

It's like, Oh, this is

00:46:17,397 --> 00:46:18,757

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It's always the way.

00:46:18,988 --> 00:46:20,448

Niki French: It's life like it's life.

00:46:20,748 --> 00:46:21,528

So, yeah.

00:46:22,767 --> 00:46:23,707

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, brilliant.

00:46:23,707 --> 00:46:28,917

Niki, how can we create a more

supportive culture for pet parents

00:46:28,937 --> 00:46:31,327

of sensitive or anxious dogs?

00:46:31,327 --> 00:46:38,697

They

00:46:38,738 --> 00:46:44,378

Niki French: to feel comfortable share

their stories on social media, I think

00:46:44,378 --> 00:46:48,758

is And, and like, you know, as we said,

I think often people feel quite alone.

00:46:48,758 --> 00:46:51,428

They feel that they're the only

person, you know, they're a bad

00:46:51,428 --> 00:46:52,808

owner and they've got a bad dog.

00:46:52,808 --> 00:46:55,908

And, you know, their, their dream

life with their dog hasn't turned

00:46:55,908 --> 00:46:57,788

out how they thought it would be.

00:46:57,798 --> 00:47:00,578

Sometimes they've, they've,

they're still grieving the previous

00:47:00,578 --> 00:47:02,198

dog that was a certain way.

00:47:02,448 --> 00:47:04,788

And then there's a, you know,

a new dog that is different.

00:47:04,798 --> 00:47:06,358

Like I hear this so often, and

00:47:06,587 --> 00:47:06,777

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: compare

00:47:07,108 --> 00:47:07,178

Niki French: dogs

00:47:07,347 --> 00:47:07,917

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: a lot.

00:47:08,147 --> 00:47:09,867

They compare a lot, don't they?

00:47:10,158 --> 00:47:10,568

Niki French: isn't it?

00:47:10,598 --> 00:47:13,158

Like, it's completely normal to do that.

00:47:13,258 --> 00:47:18,808

If anyone feels able to, if they can

share something like share a photo,

00:47:18,808 --> 00:47:22,388

share the warts and all stuff, the bits

that they feel comfortable sharing.

00:47:22,768 --> 00:47:27,488

That, you know, if you, if people

post up a, you know, a photo of

00:47:27,488 --> 00:47:30,038

their dog and just go, the what

was a bit of a disaster today.

00:47:30,038 --> 00:47:32,678

And maybe this is where you've

got the safe online communities.

00:47:32,688 --> 00:47:34,528

Like, I wouldn't do it

in some of the local

00:47:34,818 --> 00:47:35,228

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I know.

00:47:35,675 --> 00:47:38,115

Niki French: dog walking groups, you

know, I wouldn't do it in those kind of

00:47:38,115 --> 00:47:42,405

groups, but in your safe spaces sharing

about it, and some people are wonderful at

00:47:42,715 --> 00:47:46,425

sharing on, you know, their public social

media about the absolute disasters that

00:47:46,425 --> 00:47:48,465

they've had, and I share my disasters with

00:47:48,628 --> 00:47:48,858

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:47:48,915 --> 00:47:49,155

Niki French: I feel

00:47:49,208 --> 00:47:50,688

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I'm a bit of an overshower.

00:47:50,975 --> 00:47:53,105

Niki French: from the front

the day that Bodhi slipped his

00:47:53,105 --> 00:47:56,045

harness and took off towards the

dog reactive dog, that was not my

00:47:56,268 --> 00:47:57,138

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

00:47:57,265 --> 00:47:59,215

Niki French: Yeah, but I share it,

I talk about it, like there's a

00:47:59,215 --> 00:48:00,845

podcast episode about it, so it's

00:48:00,848 --> 00:48:03,118

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It just makes you, it makes you

00:48:03,118 --> 00:48:05,028

more human and more relatable.

00:48:05,260 --> 00:48:05,690

Niki French: Yeah,

00:48:05,798 --> 00:48:07,018

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

know, you understand it.

00:48:07,900 --> 00:48:11,490

Niki French: Think, yeah, anything

that people feel able to talk about

00:48:11,490 --> 00:48:14,310

and share with their struggles, I

think is good, because then other

00:48:14,310 --> 00:48:18,230

people will be like, Oh, and often you

can get a lot of support from people

00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:19,290

going, Oh, thanks for sharing that.

00:48:19,540 --> 00:48:20,970

Something similar happened to me.

00:48:20,970 --> 00:48:23,570

And, you know, you can sort of grow that.

00:48:23,570 --> 00:48:26,880

I think Another brilliant thing

is I know lots of professionals

00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:28,810

share details of my book.

00:48:29,170 --> 00:48:32,100

So, you know, even if somebody doesn't

buy the book, the fact that somebody

00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:36,195

can go, Did you know somebody's written

a book about Like walk, not walking

00:48:36,195 --> 00:48:38,345

as much and maybe doing other things.

00:48:38,735 --> 00:48:40,965

It can help that conversation

of people going, What?

00:48:41,325 --> 00:48:41,835

What do you mean?

00:48:41,885 --> 00:48:42,215

Oh,

00:48:42,428 --> 00:48:42,968

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

00:48:42,995 --> 00:48:43,075

Niki French: a book.

00:48:44,585 --> 00:48:47,445

This thing, I think it's much

like expecting to walk your dog.

00:48:47,465 --> 00:48:49,465

If someone's written a book

about it, it must be true.

00:48:49,555 --> 00:48:51,515

And I'm sure there's plenty

of books and it's not true.

00:48:51,525 --> 00:48:52,065

You know what I mean?

00:48:52,425 --> 00:48:54,045

Somebody's gone to the

effort of putting it in

00:48:54,068 --> 00:48:55,248

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, I know what you mean.

00:48:55,528 --> 00:48:55,978

Yeah,

00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:57,460

Niki French: validity, and I

00:48:57,578 --> 00:48:58,068

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it does.

00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:58,790

Niki French: can help.

00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,370

So just telling somebody, like,

I'm not walking my dog as much,

00:49:02,410 --> 00:49:04,650

and look, somebody's even written

about a book, so it must be

00:49:05,048 --> 00:49:05,468

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

00:49:05,790 --> 00:49:06,680

Niki French: that can be helpful.

00:49:07,298 --> 00:49:09,828

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah,

and it's like, when I was working like

00:49:09,828 --> 00:49:13,658

one, like, when I was doing one to ones

in person, doing training like, and you'd

00:49:13,698 --> 00:49:19,178

work with a nervous or anxious dog, and

then you'd say to the pet parent, just

00:49:19,218 --> 00:49:21,758

give them a day off the next day, don't

walk the dog, and they're like, what?

00:49:22,570 --> 00:49:23,010

Niki French: Yeah.

00:49:23,078 --> 00:49:23,488

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: dog.

00:49:23,688 --> 00:49:25,288

And I'm like, no, just give him a day off.

00:49:25,318 --> 00:49:27,248

Give him a chance to decompress.

00:49:27,248 --> 00:49:29,518

Explain like the stress

bucket and things like that.

00:49:29,518 --> 00:49:32,488

Just give him a chance

to fully decompress.

00:49:32,488 --> 00:49:36,608

And it's okay not to walk

your dog seven days a week.

00:49:36,628 --> 00:49:38,608

They can, they're allowed days off.

00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:41,130

Niki French: Yeah, and some people

will say, Oh, my dog will go nuts

00:49:41,130 --> 00:49:42,640

if we don't take them for a walk.

00:49:42,990 --> 00:49:47,200

And I get that like if they are used to

going out at a certain time every day

00:49:47,420 --> 00:49:48,990

to start off with that will be tricky.

00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,640

But you know, there are ways that you can

you can can ease in that that variation.

00:49:54,098 --> 00:49:54,678

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:59,650

Niki French: The other thing in terms of

like that supportive culture thing is is.

00:50:00,750 --> 00:50:02,630

yellow space awareness products like,

00:50:02,938 --> 00:50:04,068

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

00:50:04,098 --> 00:50:04,718

Love it.

00:50:04,850 --> 00:50:06,590

Niki French: you know, I have

one that says rescue dog.

00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,880

I have one that says in training, like

00:50:08,968 --> 00:50:09,808

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

00:50:10,140 --> 00:50:13,420

Niki French: Bodhi's not a nervous or

anxious dog, but if I'm going somewhere

00:50:13,450 --> 00:50:18,710

busier, I've got a flash of yellow

on, then that's helping to spread.

00:50:18,930 --> 00:50:20,010

And it can also just help.

00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:21,850

Conversations like you can