Join us for a profoundly inspiring talk with Jo Roper, an Obstetrics and Gynaecology doctor, who shares her insights on finding peace amidst life's struggles. This service delves into themes of faith, resilience, and the pursuit of peace in the face of uncertainty and change.

Key Highlights:

1. Jo Roper's Personal Journey: Discover how Jo's background and experiences have shaped her understanding of faith and peace.
2. Dealing with Uncertainty and Change: Jo talks about her struggles with uncertainty, especially in relation to significant life changes, and how faith has been her anchor.
3. Infertility from a Doctor's Perspective: Insights into the emotional and spiritual aspects of infertility, based on Jo's professional experiences as an Obstetrics and Gynaecology doctor.
4. The Pursuit of Peace: Explore Jo's interpretation of the Biblical verse, "seek peace and pursue it," and how this has guided her through life's challenges.
5. Faith in Action: Learn how Jo's faith has been a guiding force in her life, especially during times of doubt and unpredictability.
6. Empathy and Shared Experiences: Jo discusses the universal nature of uncertainty and how shared experiences can foster empathy and understanding.
7. Grace Amidst Struggle: A deeper look into how grace can be found even in the midst of life's toughest challenges.

Whether you're facing personal challenges or looking for spiritual insights, this talk offers a beacon of hope and inspiration. For more enlightening talks and services, visit the Crowd Church website and join our community in exploring faith, hope, and love in our everyday lives.

Hey there and welcome to What's the Story.

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And now, let's meet your host and our special guest for today.

Hi there and welcome to another episode

of What's The Story Podcast.

I'm Anna Kettle, your host for today, and today I'm joined by Jo Roper,

who is an Obs and Gynae doctor.

Now Jo is married to Mark, who's the leader of Fabric Church, which is an

HTB plant, and she's also part of the leadership team for the church too.

Jo's parents had a long way For children, and this is part of the reason that

she's so passionate about this subject.

Although infertility has not been a personal issue that she's faced, she's

been alongside many close friends in their fertility journey and feels

passionate about supporting and praying for people who are going through that.

issue.

Jo now also hopes to co lead Waiting for Children, which is an HTB led six

week online course specifically designed to support Christian families facing

challenges with fertility of all kinds.

Jo, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.

It's lovely to see you.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for having me.

Oh, it's great to see you.

So, um, I suppose we should probably start a little bit, um, at the beginning

of your story, Jo, because we need to talk about, uh, I know you're going

to talk a little bit about fertility, because that's something you are very

passionate about and you work in.

Um, but yeah, let's start at the beginning of your story, because

that kind of interweaves, doesn't it?

Like, yeah, we touched on it in your bio there, and your parents had some

difficulties with having children.

Yeah, they had, um, unexplained infertility and, um, They

were told, well, it wasn't completely unexplained, they had some, some

issues on both sides, um, mum and dad.

And so, um, they were told that they would never be able to conceive themselves.

Um, and obviously prayed a lot about that, um, and, and

waited for five years basically.

Um, and then yeah, miraculously had me, which was very good for me.

Um, and, um, I think.

Having been told that story lots of times, I mean, they made leaflets to give out

to every single person they knew, um, there's still leaflets flying around that

get, get brought out every now and again with a picture of me on, um, they were

just so, so grateful and they just wanted to tell everyone, um, how great God was

and, um, how thankful they were basically.

So I think that kind of.

It's just kind of started in me that kind of feeling that this is

something that people go through and it's a really big deal.

Um, um, so yeah, I think that's like, that's the start of it, um, for me.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Um, and you're, are you their only child?

And they did actually go on and have my brother as well.

So there's two of us.

Wow.

Yeah.

So definitely.

Presumably like.

Lots of hoping and praying and years of waiting and yeah,

children, which was amazing.

Um, so, um, obviously you grew up in a Christian family then, you've

like alluded to that faith was kind of a big part of your family.

So tell us a bit more about your sort of early life, kind of.

you know, how did, obviously you've grown up in that Christian context,

has faith always been important?

Like, what, what points have

come into play?

Yeah, yeah, so certainly my parents would, you know, took us to church

and, and, and just kind of gave us that, um, all the, all that they felt

basically, all their, um, they kind of, Taught us and, um, guided us.

Um, but obviously I think it was really obvious as well that

they were, it was important to them that we decided ourselves.

Um, and yeah, I think.

Most of the time I would have been happy to go to church.

Um, and then really it was the year after my, after I finished school.

Um, so my gap year before I went to uni, um, I spent, uh, six months

living on a mercy ship in West Africa.

Um, and.

That's obviously a Christian organization, I'd chosen to go there, um, but I think

that was probably the first time that I'd had a very individual faith and

made those decisions myself to keep on following, keep on, um, yeah, praying

and, and spending time with Jesus.

So I think that was really formational in, um, in my faith journey,

really, um, and I think that was just a great way to go into uni.

I think having had that experience already of being on my own, but living

in a Christian environment and being encouraged, um, was really important.

Um,

Yeah, I imagine, um, I imagine being on something like

Mercy Ships is quite transformative, especially as, obviously, you've gone on

to train as a doctor, and practice as a doctor, so I imagine was that quite an

important part of your journey as well?

Yeah, so I'd already chosen to do medicine, I had already got a

place at med school, um, but yeah, I was just so keen to experience anything

medical, um, and it was just a fantastic place to see some amazing Life's

transformed, but also with the, you know, spreading the love of Jesus as well

at the same time, which was Brilliant.

Um, and so I think I, yeah, I just loved it and was so excited to start

training and to be able to go and do stuff like that in the future.

Yeah, that's

fab.

And then obviously you did, you did go on and do that in the future and

still doing it as well, like church planting and all sorts of stuff.

So, um, yeah, it's obviously the start of quite a, you know, cool journey with God.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but one of, one of the, um.

Obviously, we've touched on it, but one of the really big passions you've

got, you know, often people come on here and talk about challenges that

they've faced personally, and I think, um, I'm sure you have to, you know,

faced various challenges, but one of the things you're really passionate

about is this whole area of fertility, you know, you work to support people as

an obs and gynae doctor, you're going through fertility, and obviously you've

touched that, that's been a personal story in your own family as well.

And, um, also you're so passionate about supporting other people with it.

So can you tell us a bit more about, about that kind of journey?

How did that become a thing?

And how did you do that both as a doctor and pastorally?

Yeah, so in Obs and Gynae, um, I spend a very small amount

of my time doing fertility work.

It's, it's, yeah, it's not sort of the main part of my job, um, but actually

it's probably mostly three friends that, um, I've been alongside people

who've been through that journey.

And I think you can just see how it's, yeah, it breaks people, um,

and it's all consuming and, um.

And so I think going through that with friends and just trying my

best to support, I just felt like I wanted to do something even more.

Um, and it was actually at New Wine, um, nearly five years ago now, I went

to a seminar, uh, for Couples With Infertility, um, led by Saltwater and

Honey, and, um, it was them talking about a support group that someone at their

Bible college had set up, and, um, they said, oh, it was a lady who hadn't been

through this journey and just wanted to support people, and I think that was

what I'd always felt was that I was a bit disqualified from doing much more

because I hadn't personally experienced it, and I didn't want anyone to feel that

I, yeah, I didn't really know what they were going through because I really don't.

And so it was them almost giving the permission to say, well,

it doesn't matter if you've got that heart, you can do something.

Um, and so I came back to HTTP where we were at the time, um, and spoke

to someone and said, what can I do?

And it turned out there was a course that had already been written.

Um, by another couple, Alex and Rebecca Stewart, many years ago, who'd

been through an infertility journey.

They'd written Waiting for Children and run the course themselves

and then, and then left HDB and, and no one else had picked it up.

So no, it hadn't been run for a while.

Um, and so I thought, great, the material's already there.

I don't need to even sit down and do much.

I just need to run it.

Um, and so that's when we started running Waiting for Children.

Um, That's cool.

And so yeah, it's just, it's just, it's something that God

has just laid on my heart.

And I think when we talk about God breaking your heart for, for, for

people group or for a certain, you know, certain thing, that's what he's

done with this for me because I, I just, yeah, just want to do something.

Yeah, that's, that's so cool because, I mean, I think there

are a few things in churches now but I still think it's quite, I think a lot

of churches are quite poorly resourced on this whole area and when you think,

like, it's something like one in four.

Couples go through miscarriage and one in seven maybe through infertility struggles

of some kind and that's a lot of people in everyone's congregation right that are

affected by this issue at some point um yeah and it feels like there aren't that

many resources and and there isn't that much good Teaching about this subject

really in a lot of churches still, so such a valuable resource and if anybody's

interested in finding out a bit more about it or coming along to the course, I

mean, can you tell us a bit more about it?

Like what does

it involve?

Yeah, so, um, so actually because we started in lockdown, we started it online

and actually we've continued that way.

I think we found that it makes it accessible to anyone.

Um, we've had People from all across the world, um, mostly across the UK, but

yeah, um, some people from abroad joining.

Um, and, and it makes it a little bit anonymous as well.

I think people can decide whether they want to put their names on the

screen or whether they want to put their camera on that kind of thing.

And I think that that just makes it more accessible.

I think people feel able to come along, which is great.

Um, So yeah, so it's an online course, um, we, so we run it through HDB usually

once a year now and then there's another, um, almost identical course running

online through another church in Oxford.

Um, and so basically we've had.

Yeah, a range between sort of 10 or 40 couples on each course.

Um, we have five weeks, um, covering, um, the effect on couples, infertility

treatments, adoption, um, Something we call Living Fruitfully, so essentially,

potentially living without children, um, and then dealing with loss.

Um, and each week we have a couple who come and share their

story on that particular subject.

Um, and Yeah, and I think that's probably the, the amazing part of the most amazing

part of the course is that, you know, it's people just being completely real,

what they've been through, how they dealt with it, how it affected their

marriage, how it affected their faith.

Um, and just an encouragement, I think, hopefully.

Um, and then.

Similar to the marriage course, we have just a few spaces for the

couples to speak within their couple.

So, um, you pose a question and then give them five, ten minutes to

talk about it between themselves.

In a way, just to encourage them to actually make.

Let's have some of those difficult conversations, I think, because,

yeah, it's not going to be something you typically sit down at the end

of day and think, okay, let's have that really difficult conversation.

So it's like, okay, well, we've got the space now.

Um, and, and yeah, that's kind of the, that's the, the, the course.

Yeah, that sounds, it sounds a really valuable resource that I'm

sure some people listening will either want to access themselves or know people

who might find it helpful to access.

So, just to say we will include all the information about how you can find out

more or register for the next course kind of on the show notes as well, um, so we'll

include that at the end of the podcast.

Um, but you also have like, so that, that's one area that you're serving

this kind of group, but then you also more recently have had a bit more of

a personal way that you've supported a friend who's been through years

of infertility as well, haven't you?

Can you tell us a bit more about

that as well?

Yeah, so, um, A really close friend of mine, um, from school, so we knew each

other at secondary school and then we went to university together and she ended up

needing a hysterectomy because she had cancer, um, and so obviously wasn't going

to be able to carry her own children, um.

And so actually when she got married, um, me and my husband offered that we

could carry their child if they wanted to, um, she still had her ovaries,

so, um, it was completely genetically their child, um, and I carried it for

them, so that was, um, that was nearly four years ago that they got married

and we started that, that process, um, and then, um, Yeah, it was, it was a

very interesting thing to go through.

I think like it was absolutely amazing experience.

Um, I think going through some of the IVF process kind of made it even more real to

me what other people have to go through.

Um, obviously I think I came at it from a very different way.

It was, it was a physical thing I was going through, not so much,

not so much an emotional thing.

Obviously I cared, but it wasn't personally for me.

And, and yeah, so, um, yeah, baby Phoebe was born in February this

year, um, and she's wonderful.

Her parents are very happy.

Um, we, yeah, thankfully it was a very straightforward pregnancy and

it was just, I think it's just an amazing experience to go through.

I think I.

I kind of knew that I probably would go into it in a very different way

from my own, carrying my own children.

Um, I'm quite a black and white thinker, so, um, you know, things are

good or bad, things are easy or hard.

Um, and, and I kind of knew that I would just go into this like, I

know that I'm doing this for her and I never wanted another baby.

And so, you know, this is a gift for them.

Yeah, it was, it was wonderful, um, and I think it's been a brilliant way

for us to explain to our children what people go through and, um, and just

to bring up this conversation with people, um, who might not know about it.

Yeah.

I

mean, that is, to me, that is an amazing gift to give to

someone, like what an incredible gift to give to a friend that,

you know, because that, that is.

Although obviously they've been through a lot with, you know, years of not

thinking they could have children, but obviously there's a personal cost there

for you that's pretty big as well.

Like carrying a baby for someone else is no small thing.

Like it's not, it don't, being a donor is becoming more common, but

it's still not super common isn't it?

Like I don't know anyone else in my personal life who's done that,

so it's still relatively rare.

And I think basically giving up your life.

your body, at least.

Yeah, for someone else, isn't it?

I mean

Yeah, I think it was so, it was interesting, we had a couple

on Waiting for Children who talked about, um, using a surrogate, so, so

they couldn't carry their children, so they, they had a surrogate, um, and she

described it really well, actually, she just said it's, it's a grace that God

gives these people to do this, and I do totally feel that, I, I think, I, I

know that God gave me the grace to, to do that, and it didn't, It just didn't

feel like a huge thing for me to do.

Um, and yeah, you know, there were bits that were difficult and there

were bits that, um, you know, I was a bit fed up by the end of

carrying, carrying, carrying a baby.

Um, but, but I think it just, it was.

Yeah, it was, it was kind of just always what I felt I wanted to do and,

um, it was interesting when I brought it up with my husband, he said, Oh,

I thought you might want to do that.

That's interesting,

did he?

Yeah.

And was Mark always on board with that as well, or did it take him a bit longer,

or were you both on the same page?

Yeah, I think he,

I mean.

He, he's very, he's got a very good understanding of me.

Um, and so I think, yeah, when he said, I thought you might want to do that.

I think probably he had probably already started preparing himself for it as well.

He said that I, um, generally when I've got something into my head

that I want to do, there's not much that anyone else can do to stop me.

Um, and I think obviously he completely realized the.

the reasons behind it and was completely supportive of that.

Um, obviously he was concerned about my health and things like that, but,

um, Again, I think, I mean, he used to be a doctor as well, so I think having

that kind of medical understanding as well, um, you're a little bit able

to more rationalize it and kind of be like, well, actually the majority of

these things go okay and, um, yeah, so I think being able to do that and, and

then also obviously having faith and being able to, to pray over me and the

baby and everything, the whole process just, yeah, we were given peace about it.

Yeah, I think what you said before about how there's a real grace in

God when he calls you to do something.

I think that's really true and I suppose it's true for any area

of our life actually, isn't it?

That actually when God calls you to do something, even if it's something that

sounds difficult to other people, like there's a grace for you to do it because

God's asked you to and he'll give you the tools and the help that you need.

So yeah, I think that must be really true.

And also Jo, you sort of strike me as someone who's pretty up for a challenge

anyway, um, I mean, you've also just moved from, you know, kind of the

outskirts of London to Manchester to a new church for HDP, so, I mean, you

strike me as someone who's up for a challenge and I'd love to hear a bit

more about that as well actually.

Yeah,

that's it.

That has been another thing that that that's probably been like, um, another

huge challenge in the last few years.

So, um, so as I sort of just mentioned, Mark was a doctor as well.

So we both trained in Birmingham, lived in Birmingham for almost 10 years,

um, working as doctors, um, had our first two children and, um, And it

had kind of always been on our radar that Mark might be called to ministry,

um, but we didn't know quite how that would happen or how that would look.

Um, and, and then yes, it all became kind of a bit more obvious.

And, um, so he started training, um, in St.

Mellitus in London.

That was in, that was the same year, um, that our twins were born.

So that was 2015.

And so he was commuting one day a week to London to train.

And again, we just had no idea what was going to happen at the end of

that, but we kind of trusted, um, God had already provided amazing things

for us, like childcare that we could afford while we were both working

part time and all that kind of thing.

Um, and so.

We got to the end of the three years of training and again, we're trying to

work out how this is all going to work out and God, um, very clearly called

us to London, um, which was unexpected.

And, um, so we had this kind of.

A few months of trying to work out how this was going to work in

our lives, how was my job going to work, how was, you know, housing and

children and all that kind of stuff.

And that was when God really taught me about, you know, if I've called

you to something, I'll sort out all the details and you have to just go.

And so, yeah, so we went to London and, um, and all the details fell into place.

Some of them not till we got there, but, um, it was just amazing to see.

the way that, yeah, God was sorting everything.

And then, um, and then we moved within London, so that after two years we

moved on to the site of HTB, um, which was again another kind of,

is this really what we need to do?

But it was the right thing and it all was fine.

Um, and then we actually knew from when we moved to London that we

probably wouldn't be there long term.

And there was this talk of Manchester and, and that kind of grumbled along with

COVID and how was that going to work?

And there weren't any buildings and that kind of thing, um,

for a church in Manchester.

Um, and so.

Again, we kind of knew that we were coming and it was, it was completely

uncertain how it was all going to work out, um, but very clear that

that's what God wanted us to do.

So, um, we had found a building that we wanted to buy, um, But there

were complications with it and we needed to get things approved by

the council to be able to buy it.

So we moved to Manchester in July.

We didn't have a building, um, to start a church in.

Um, we've been meeting in a nightclub, which has been really fun.

Um.

And, and actually, yeah, all the stuff for the council came through

in, I think it was September.

Um, and we have now bought the building, um, and we're hoping to

move in, um, in the, in the new year.

So I think just part of that has just made me trust God so much more.

Each time we've moved, each time it's been uncertain, I think I've

been able to look back and be like.

God has sorted it out before, so I've got to trust and has

given me peace in the moment.

Um, yeah, most of the time.

I'm not, I'm not a particularly good person with uncertainty

and change, um, but, but God has managed to, to keep me going.

Yeah.

And it seems to me that, like, quite often when we're not good, and I

don't think many of us are very good at, like, uncertainty and living in

limbo, but it actually strikes me that, like, Yeah, kind of, God asks us

to do that quite a lot, to keep kind of moving and journeying with him.

Um, it strikes me that, that's, I don't know, there's not that, you know,

there's some certain parallels there with living with infertility as well,

isn't there, but it's like an uncertainty and they're living in limbo in that as

well, so again, I think there's this kind of empathy even in other areas.

Because uncertainty is hard in any area of life, isn't it, living like that?

Yeah, totally.

Yeah,

definitely.

Yeah, but um, yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I, I love, I love that you guys have

done that and, you know, again, we'll put all the details of Fabric Church,

um, in the show notes because if anyone's in or near Manchester and is

interested in checking you guys out.

Yeah, please come And um, tell us a bit more about, tell us just a

little bit more about the church, then kind of what are you guys up

to, like what's kind of your focus

or?

Yeah, so we um, we have like a congregation that seems to be so

varied, it's amazing, um, so we've got lots of students, um, lots of young

adults, I mean the city centre is just There's accommodation going up

everywhere, um, high rises of flats and student accommodation and stuff.

So there's loads and loads of young people living in the city centre at

the moment, and even more to come.

Um, so yeah, we've got loads of them.

And then some families, we've got some children, um, And yeah, it's

just, it's just really exciting.

We've, um, we've already got, um, a student pastor who's working

with students, which is amazing.

Um, we've got a kids worker, um, and we're just kind of, yeah, we've been

kind of growing slowly over the, yeah, we've been running 11 or 12 weeks now.

And, um, just trying to work out exactly how we can use our

building the best, basically.

It's just on the edge of the, um, the ring road, um, in Manchester, um, like eight

minutes walk from Piccadilly station.

Um, and it's got loads and loads of space where we're going to work.

Slowly through it, none of it is actually usable initially, um, but we're kind of

transforming some of it so we can move in initially and then over, there's a plan

for over the next few years to kind of do all the other bits, um, but yeah, we're

just trying to work out how we can, um, serve that community, um, use, use the

space, um, to help them during the week.

Um, we've been running Alpha at a skate park, which is pretty

cool, um, just really close to where the building is as well.

Um, and we've got Beer and Carols on Thursday which will be really fun as well.

So yeah, we're kind of just working out how to do things to help the

community around us at the moment.

That sounds great, sounds really great and definitely

check it out if you're in the area.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I honestly, we kind of keep talking about all

of this for ages, couldn't we?

But I suppose, sort of like pulling it all together then, um, what would you

say, kind of, because we've talked a bit about change and talked about fertility

and supporting people who are going through that and talked a bit about

kind of, um, yeah, kind of trusting God in the middle of all that kind of

unknowingness of life and, and change.

But like, what would you say is kind of, The one big lesson or, like,

life motto that you've developed to this point, if you could even, like,

distill it down to one thing, really.

We always ask this on What's the Story?, and I know it's a really

hard question to ask at the end.

Yeah,

so, I would, I would say, um, one of my I think one of my

favourite verses, um, comes from a psalm, um, is seek peace and pursue it.

And I think that has been something that I have strived, not always managed

to, but strived to kind of do in all of this and through all of this.

So, um, uh, yeah, we, I recently had it tattooed on my foot.

Um, but I think it's.

It's something that probably isn't my default, um, and, but I really

value it when I, when I know that I do it properly, God, God provides it.

And, and I think, um, you know, Jesus says, I'll give you peace that passes

all understanding and there are.

There are definitely so many moments when we, we won't get the peace.

We won't be able to find the peace, um, on our, in our own strength.

Um, and so knowing that we can, you know, ask Jesus for it.

And, um, and it will be, yeah, deeper than we can imagine.

It's so important.

And I think that the, the really important part is the pursue, because I think you

didn't ask, but you've You've got to really seek it, you've really got to

want it and to, and to dig deep sometimes because the, because some of life is

just so, so heartbreaking, so hard and so it's, it's so important to do that.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that was Psalm 46, did you say?

Yeah.

Yeah, I really love that.

That's a really nice life motto, and as you say, peace is something that

you continually have to pursue in this, particularly in this world, because we're

so busy, aren't we, and there's so much going on and coming at us all the time.

Like, it is something you sort of constantly have to

wrestle for and keep pursuing.

Yeah.

It's quite proactive, isn't it?

Was there any particular reason why you did it on your foot or were you just

like, that's just where I want to put it?

Um,

I don't know really.

I think I, I was, I'm always conscious that it has to be somewhere that

I can kind of cover up at work or yeah, yeah, that kind of thing.

And I think, um, I guess pursuing it, to me, sometimes means like

moving and doing, yeah, it's like the place where you would find it.

Yeah, I was just thinking of, um, you know, um, a passage of

scripture where it talks about, um, the armour of God as well, I think it talks

about the shoes of peace, um, it's just interesting, isn't it, that actually,

biblically, like, peace is something you do when you walk in and you kind

of strap on your feet and you have fun.

Moving and choose.

Yeah, I think that's really interesting.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Is there anything else, um, you wanted to kind of tell us about or kind of,

um, share with us before we wrap up?

It's been, I see we've covered a lot of ground in quite a short space, really.

Yeah, no, I don't think so.

I think, yeah, I just, yeah, I think waiting for children and just being

able to support people and yeah, yeah,

my passion.

Well definitely we will, um, share all of the contacts sort of in the show

notes, so people please do look up Jo, look up the team, that course is

brilliant and I highly recommend it.

Tell us as well Jo, where can people connect with you?

How can they find you?

Where's the best place if they, if anything you've talked about

today has touched a nerve or people want to kind of Yeah,

so I've got Instagram, so if you want to message me through

Instagram, um, I'm quite good at Getting back to people hopefully, um, and,

um, I mean, if you contacted, um, HTB through Waiting for Children, um, then

they would, they'd be able to forward it on to me as well, so either way.

And that's

just on the HTB website?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so easy to find.

And then also, I guess, through your church, which

is Fabric?

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, I don't have a Fabric email, but, um, yeah, Matt, like, obviously Mark does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So through the website, it's great.

Well, Jo, thank you so much for being here today and sharing a

little bit about your heart with us.

It's been really cool to talk to you and just very inspiring to hear how

you've, um, personally kind of walked the talk, you know, and, and done

something really practical as well to, to just bless somebody in that community.

So, um, thank you so much and thanks for, yeah, sharing a bit of yourself with us.

Thanks for having me.

See you soon.

See you.

And just like that, we've reached the end of

another fascinating conversation.

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