Reversing Diabetes, Restoring Testosterone & Reclaiming Men’s Health After 40

What if the fatigue, weight gain, low testosterone, and rising blood sugar you’ve been told is “just aging”…

is actually a warning sign?

Men over 40 are facing a silent health crisis—one that’s often ignored, downplayed, or treated with a prescription instead of a solution.

And the truth is…

too many men are suffering in silence.

In this powerful episode of Beyond The Pills, we sit down with a leading Men’s Health, Metabolic Performance, and Longevity Specialist who is helping men aged 40–70 reverse type 2 diabetes, overcome insulin resistance, reduce cardiovascular risk, and restore vitality—without relying solely on medication.

As the founder of Manstrong2 and co-founder of Vital-Health.ai, he’s on a mission to change the way men approach their health—moving from reaction to ownership.

You’ll discover:

• Why metabolic decline is not inevitable—and how to reverse it
• The real root causes behind low testosterone, weight gain, and fatigue
• How the 5R Method is helping men prevent heart attacks and reclaim their energy
• Why ignoring your health isn’t strength—it’s risk
• And how data, awareness, and action can completely transform your long-term health trajectory

This episode isn’t just about health; it’s about identity.

Because being a man doesn’t mean pushing through pain, avoiding conversations, or waiting until it’s too late.

It means taking ownership.

It means having the courage to face what’s really going on.

And it means choosing strength; not silence.

If you’ve ever thought…

“I’ll deal with it later,”

this conversation might be the wake-up call you didn’t know you needed.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a man in your life who needs to hear this message.

Your health—and theirs—could depend on it.

👉 Follow Beyond The Pills on Apple & Spotify so you never miss an episode

👉 Leave a review with your biggest takeaway—it helps us reach more people

👉 Join the movement toward better health, stronger leadership, and a life beyond prescriptions

Connect with Our Guest

🌐 Website: http://www.manstrong2.com

🌐 Platform: http://www.vital-health.ai

🔗 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/surenaidoo

124_Surnen_D

===

Join me and other practitioners as we guide you towards vibrant health, body, mind, and spirit, and move beyond symptom management into true healing. Hello everybody. Welcome back to this episode of Beyond the Pills. I am Josh Rimini, pharmacist Turned Healer. And today, uh, we're diving into the conversation that hits at the core of modern men's health metabolism performance, longevity.

We've talked on that subject, and I'm looking forward to that in reducing cardiovascular risk and reclaiming long-term vitality. He's the co-founder of Vital Health ai.ai and digital platform, helping individuals monitor key health metrics in real time. And the founder of Mans Strong Two, where he empowers men using his proven five R method to reverse chronic disease and prevent heart attacks.

Surnen: Thank you, Josh. Thank you for inviting me, uh, to your, uh, beyond the Pills podcast. I'm really looking forward to having a, a, a lovely chat today and, and thank you for the lovely introduction. So. I'm, I'm all yours. Uh,

Josh: no, I love it. Um, you got into my stream, uh, in my field of awareness as I am talking more and more about men's health and vitality, and so I love the synergy.

Um, take us back. When, when, where was the moment where you realized the traditional approach to men's health wasn't working?

Surnen: Well, let me take us, let me take you back a little while.

Josh: Let's do that.

Surnen: Well, I was born in South Africa in Durban many, many years ago. You can see all my gray hairs now. So I. I left in the sixties during the apartheid years, and we came to London to study maths, to study, to improve my education, and eventually went to university, the Royal College of uh, surgeons in Ireland, qualified as a doctor.

There's a, because diabetes is such a chronic inflammatory process, it affects all your blood vessels in the body. And as I continued my study throughout the years and did my, my different, uh, levels in medicine. Then went into general practice and then I became the diabetic and cardiac lead in my practice.

And when I, when I'd finished my, uh, NHS practice and I had time on my hands now to set up my private practice and I decided there's something a lot more to, to something to, to diabetes then, and cardiovascular disease and erectile dysfunction. I put this triad together, this trio of symptoms because end of the day, a lot of men who will have ECT car dysfunction won't talk about it.

They won't discuss it with their partners. They want discuss it even with their friends. They just become too embarrassed to discuss it. So I then decided, let's look at this thing in a more logical fashion and look at how diabetes causes these problems. How can we reverse these problems before it gets too severe?

Josh: I love it. And when we, when we initially talked before the, the episode, uh, recording here, it was, it was a fun conversation because you were linking, you know, it's the whole adage of like.

Why does someone come to see a physician, right? Mm-hmm. And they don't come because they have diabetes per se. Yeah. Sometimes it, it may be at the end, but like they're coming because they have some erectile dysfunction, which is functioning. Their sexual health. Like they, they're, it's hard to talk about, but you are kind of linking, well, they're coming in for this, but where's the why?

Thought process from that beginning

Surnen: because it's so important. I mean, your endothelium, which is lining your blood vessels, is a fine layer of cells. It's like tissue paper and that's being destroyed every time you eat, eating your food. For example, it if eating the wrong types of food, this will cause damage to your, to your endothelium.

And you get formation of plaques and cholesterol plaques built up and eventually leads to heart attacks. You don't get that. So what you want to do is to improve that release of the nitric oxide because it's that nitric oxide, which allows your vessels to become elastic and remain lasting so they can stretch and get that increased blood flow.

If you need to make time to do these things.

Josh: I, I, I have that conversation a lot with clients. Is the, the num, one of the number one objections to all things in health or whatever thing is, I don't have enough time and I try to reframe it when I can because I. The reality is we all have the same time. We have all the time we need if we're prioritizing.

Right. But you said like that's why I, I'm one of my people, uh, clients that I love to work with are the high performing executive people 'cause. It's not that, but there, there's a fine line between high performing and burnout.

Surnen: Yes.

Josh: And then the downstream effects as you and I work on, which is health. Right.

So it's nice to get them in the the arena for, Hey, if you need this, we gotta work here too. Because a lot I do. You talk a lot in the beginning with your clients because. You know, I think a lot of people are still stuck on, well, I need the pill for that. I need the pill for the erectile dysfunction, which is literally helping nitric oxide pathways anyway, but cause more than effect, right?

And men don't realize this. They feel, well, ed is a problem. It's this a part of normal aging. I'm too embarrassed to talk to my wife. I'm too embarrassed to go to the doctor. What will they think of me? I don't, I'm losing that macho image of a man. That's not the case. It's not a weakness. Men should be braver because at admitting to, admitting to we admitting to a problem is not a weakness.

And this makes a huge difference in terms of your health.

'cause if someone does have Ed. That is a sure sign of endothelial dysfunction rather than an ED. And I, I, I'm glad that we're bringing this to people's thought and awareness is 'cause the men out there listening or the spouses or the partners who have men listening is if there is that dysfunction. I don't think we're doing service to these men if we're just treating the symptom and, and of the dysfunction.

Right. Right. And a lot of men seek, hey, the end result is if I can get this worked out that.

I'll be okay. Resolve the things that you were talking about, like exercise, nitric oxide support, nutrition. Then we're doing them a disservice, right?

And, you know, your, your, your symptoms will be, will improve. What we really want to look at the underlying cause. What's, what's the, what's the reasoning behind this problem and how we can prevent them. Because no point having ED and you end up with a stroke. No point having Ed and suddenly got a heart attack, you know, because.

You will prevent these, these sort of symptoms happening in the first place, and then you can enjoy life better because you don't wanna be living longer and you don't wanna be lying in bed with a stroke. You want to be living longer, but you need to have a healthier health span and a healthier lifespan so you can enjoy your sex.

Josh: Yeah, I think it's just, it's so,

I know I've been speaking on this subject for a long time, but it's really nice to just pause. In this episode to really grasp the truth behind the words. Right. And then, and he, and this is why I love having these conversations, because Yes, it's, instead of just getting your problem fixed like we can do, we can get people feeling better quickly.

Help because truthfully, if we're all looking at this from that lens is everybody wants to live better. They just don't wanna live longer, right? Like you said, longevity to me is too much of a buzzword because I don't, I wanna live as vibrant as possible until I'm almost at the edge of. Existence and we just wanna fall off.

Right?

Surnen: Absolutely.

Biology sort of takes hold of some of these lifestyle choices or environmental factors, you know? Yes. You've talked about that as well. So let's talk a little bit about your methodology around that, your five R method. So let's talk, walk us through a little bit of that.

Surnen: Well, the five R method stands for five R stands for one is reset.

We do a, a series of blood tests to measure your baseline in terms of full blood count. Your hba one C, your cholesterol profile, your testosterone levels, your PSA levels, and importantly, more importantly, looking at your special blood tests like your, uh, gut health measure. Gut health. 'cause gut health is really important as in terms of the micro, the microbiomes and gut health.

Which can cause inflammation and cause effects on your heart and brain. So we take blood tests for that. We also do some genetic and epigenetic studies to look at how we can improve or predict heart disease in the future. And these are done by saliva tests. So that's basically the resetting. We need to know where you are.

But the pulse pressure is the arithmetic difference between your systolic and your diastolic pressure. The pulse pressure gives you is a highly, is an important predictor for elasticity of yoga of your vessels. So if you get stiffening of your vessels, this pulse pressure will widen. So you want a pulse pressure as as low as possible.

So the range could be anywhere between 40 to 60. So you want your pulse pressure to be much, much lower. And another thing is important thing is the, is the pulse rate. So is it irregular or is it irregular? 'cause an irregular, a lot of people measure the blood pressure, but now don't actually feel the pulse.

So that's part of the, uh, reigniting your, uh, your, your yourself. So we look at that and then we go to other coaching on, on, on, on, with the patient. And we're rebuilding the strength with nutrition, with exercise, because walking has so many benefits. Walking 30 minutes a day, you don't need a gym. Walking is free.

There's no side effects.

Josh: Yep.

Your, your, your, uh, your cholesterol levels. It brings down the bad, bad cholesterol, the LDLs, so there's so many advantages. And then finally we go on to look at hormonal symptoms like hormonal product, like testosterone, for example, and to see if they need deficiency in testosterone, because testosterone play a.

Although we are on as we age, our normal testosterone levels will start to fall. But in diabetic patients, the testosterones are levels even lower. And we don't measure this testosterone. This testosterone is important for muscle health and muscle mass because if you got good muscle mass, you absorb your sugar from your blood into your muscle, and this helps reduce your diabetes.

Josh: I love

Surnen: that. That's

Josh: just in a nutshell, a quick No, I I, I, it's nice to hear because I think a lot of times you've explained it in a really nice way and with ours so people can remember it, and it's a nice, nice place to have people realize like, your health is a journey. It's not a destination, and some people need.

Like you can reset, you do the gut health, you do these things, but then that piece that. Ties it all in right at the end. There is kind of like you're building that initiation for somebody to really ignite their purpose, get them like men want to be impactful. We wanna be able to do things, we wanna be able to say that we were able to create and build and do these things.

Absolutely right. 'cause you're 40 and 50, you're much wiser as a human than you were when you were vitally in the body. So we can kind of move ourselves down that path. So I love that you've kind of, 'cause it's really easy to understand in a short period of time, the process you take and then layering that expectation, which I think is super critical for people's success.

Surnen: Yeah. I think if people have that expectation, they know the program where they're going to go. They understand it's not, it's not just a quick six month program. It's not a quick fix. It's a journey, as you say, it's ongoing and it's, it's creating something which is easy, which is simple for them to do, and nothing massive.

It's corrosive to your body and is each time you, you, you're eating the wrong food, you're damaging that endothelial lining of your arteries and your arteries are not gonna thank you for it. You know, because. Heart inflammation is, is painless, chronic inflammation. You don't realize until something happens, until you suddenly get a get a stroke or you get a heart attack.

Because it's happening all the time. It's so, it's, it's, it's the little things you do, but just looking at the types of food you eat, just changing a few things in your diet. The, uh, using more olive oil, for example, using more Omega-3 in your diet. Things like this will all help to improve vascular endothelium.

Risk of cardiovascular disease almost disappears.

Surnen: Disappears, yeah.

Josh: And no drug. I just, I did my own podcast on this recently because I really wanted to correlate vitamin D, Omega-3 and magnesium together, not separately how they all those three simple nutrients which are robbed from our diets, our standard American for sure, and our modern day.

Surnen: no

Josh: feeling. They might, but they usually don't because it's, that, that's the, the correlation is like the back, the backward side of that is we know that 50% of people.

That have cardiovascular disease, their first symptom is sudden death.

Surnen: Absolutely

Josh: 50%, but half of people don't know they have it before they die from it. Which is where I think you're going with this conversation is we don't need to wait until the end to get where we need to go. And that's a really difficult thing, especially for men.

What do you think is that identity masculinity? What, what plays in that role when you, what you've seen, when you get to uncover with people, what have they expressed to you?

Surnen: The society we live in. See when men, men are with, when, when men are with other men and the girl for a drink or bump or go to a football match and all of that masculine, masculine environment and no one will admit to you.

And they look at it on a, as a weakness. They think it's a weakness to go to your doctor. It's a weakness to talk to your wife or your partner about a problem, but it's not a weakness. It's actually being more brave and more honest with yourself that you've got an issue and you've gotta be more honest.

And if you're not, you don't have that integrity about your health then. There's no point because you lose that effect of, of living longer and having a healthier life and having, you know, living a legacy for your children because if you lose that effect, then you've lost everything.

Josh: And I, I think that's the piece that, like how do you, what's your idea on shifting that narrative?

Similarly with men's health. There's a lot of talk about women's health, but not much talk about men's health. Nobody talks in a great deal about erectile dysfunction, leading to heart attacks, and what's causing erectile dysfunction. Many men have the problem but are too afraid to discuss it, so all it needs is to have an open mind.

Josh: I, I I love that you're, you're bringing it to light, right? 'cause yes, awareness, I believe is the first step. Having conversations, getting it more open.

Surnen: Absolute.

Josh: Absolutely. And I think men, there's nothing wrong with, like, talking about women's health, right?

Surnen: Yeah.

Josh: And there's a lot, you know, a lot more awareness needed there too, like menopause.

And it's not a, it's, it's not just a mental.

Surnen: Hot

Josh: flash thing. But I also wanna say, because that's why I feel called is to step up as well, is I believe men's vitality and health, especially in the ages we are talking about here, those men in forties and their fifties going into their sixties, we, it's been, it's sort of not being talked about.

Because that's what we identify as. But then it works into being a dad, being a family man, being a partner, be, and then we, we slowly get to them. Like the part that men and women do is like, well, what about you? Like your vitality, who you are, are you, are you. Are you fully authentic? Are you living your best life?

And so there's this, and, and of course we should always be able to talk to our partners and our spouses because they're there to be supportive of us, right? So love that we're bringing this to a more open area, but also not designed just, oh, what's wrong with my body? How do I fix it? Right? Because all of that makes.

If you're not open, you can't say it. Well, nothing will happen. And yes, men are traditionally culturally avoiders of these things.

Surnen: Absolutely. I mean, the famously, oh, I'm fine. There's nothing wrong with me. There is something wrong. You know, you've got to, you've gotta admit that, and it's getting over that culture, that barrier to say, oh, I'm fine.

Josh: or I'll be fine, right? Like, what does that mean? Like, I'll be fine. That means you're not fine.

Surnen: Not fine.

Josh: Well, I, I, I don't know about you. I've, I've changed some of those. Sometimes words matter a lot. You know, we talked about NLP and other things. Yes. And this realm. But like I always say, how, how are you doing?

The deflection answer is always, I'm fine, right? And I say, well, how I go? How you doing? And then I go, how you really doing?

Surnen: Yeah, absolutely.

Josh: And I, I put an emphasis there because then most people get through that layer and go, well, you know what? That was my deflection answer, but really I'm not sleeping well or I don't feel like myself.

And then, then we have conversations.

Are we really looking at the critical figures to see exactly what's going on in your bloodstream? And measuring the, measuring the right parameters like your cardio, real cardiovascular risks like your A or B and LP little a. We just measuring total cholesterol, but we, we are missing out the important lipoproteins like LPA and so forth.

So that's what happens. And people think, oh, well my cholesterol's fine, but it's not.

Josh: Well, that's a whole nother conversation. Yeah. And we have had, um, the, the founder of a, of a very simple cardiovascular inflammation test. And we talked about LP little a, we talked about homocysteine and CRP and, and, um.

Looking at gut health, looking at cardiovascular health, looking at inflammatory health, looking at metabolic health because it, it all works together. All

Surnen: works together.

Josh: We're looking at a men, right? Men's vitality. We're not looking at erectile dysfunction. We're not looking at. Lean muscle mass, like we're looking at everything because everything is whole, right?

Holistic health is integrative and getting to that ologist approach where we're looking at one little factor from an overall vitality perspective. So I love that we're going more broad spectrum and full circle, because at health,

We're just looking, focusing. You come in with a problem, I'm gonna fix your problem, and away you go. That's not the, that's not medicine. Medicine is really looking at this whole meta, um, whole, uh, holistic type of approach and looking at all the causative factors, rather just saying, well, you've got something.

Here's a prescription. Your prescription patch should be put away and locked up. It's not just you don't take a pill, you don't need a pill. You need to look at your body and understand what your body needs and how you can improve your health by simple things. Just simple things.

Josh: I, well, that is. A big emphasis on conversation of how do we change healthcare, right?

Instead of taking away a disease or a symptom of a problem. I love to tell people we're restoring balance. What you said is, what do you need? Not do we take away.

Surnen: Mm-hmm.

And you, you, the, we talk a lot about the, just the mechanism behind endothelial dysfunction. Well, what's endothelial? Function, if we're storing it back to good health, is that fluidity of all that information that's going in between the cells comes from. Endothelial function. So when we're functioning better, we're restoring these things and we're telling people, you can do this through diet lifestyle, which is exercise and movement.

Surnen: That's absolutely,

Josh: we've done these to prove it's additive.

It's not like, oh, I have to do a high intensity interval workout only. But the, the thing is, is if we don't move, we're in trouble. So let more movement, better food. Looking at your nutrients in different ways to optimize instead of getting out of deficiency and then looking at those factors for, like you said, metabolic health.

Endothelial dysfunction, inflammation, gut health. There's the, we know the correlation of the gut to everything else.

Surnen: Absolutely.

Josh: Heart to mind. Gut to mind. And we're moving through that. I wanna talk a little bit about technology in the future because. You have this vital health do ai.

Surnen: Yeah.

Josh: And how does tracking the data change behavior?

But later on, even your sugar, your balance, which will be done by continuous glucose monitoring, a lot of these new, uh, the, once the app is fully available, and by using wearables, a lot of this information can be tracked. Your pulse, your heart rate variability, you got the, your ring I can see, and, and these things will help you to monitor yourself.

You can then see your sugar levels falling. Yeah. You don't get those spikes of high cortisol levels, which will put up your blood pressure. You measure your blood pressure once a week, which is the physical thing you've got to do, unfortunately. But there are new technologies on the horizon where you can measure your blood pressure.

Three oh. iPhone, we're taking a picture of your retina. So that's coming out later on and later, later on in the, uh, belief. Lots of lots of this technology and AI will help you to get, uh, to improve your quality of life because in the program we have AI to actually remind you of doing things, in terms of taking a break, taking exercise, improving your sleep, monitoring your sleep pattern.

You should now take your, take your TA supplements. So that's, that's basis of how it's going to work.

Josh: I love it. I, I, I firmly believe not just labs, but health tracking, what you track and measure improves, period. If you don't see it, you end, you end up. So I, I don't check my Aura scores. All the time now because I've got my routines and I know my baseline.

Um, but I've been tracking my health, sleep activity and readiness scores. I love also Aura, and we're getting closer with other technologies now too. It's like you, you talked a lot about Pulse. Um, and, and things of that nature. But really looking at it from, I love seeing heart rate variability. Yeah. And seeing that that can improve with the things we do.

Surnen: what's going on,

Josh: of what's going on with what you eat specifically, not. So there's this biofeedback that we're getting from that to allow us to track, measure, and improve upon.

It's very similar to like putting on your gym shoes. Like if you just put on your gym shoes, you're more, you are more active to going to the gym than if you didn't put on the shoes in the first place. So when you are and measuring, we all have one of these things guys. We have a cell phone. Um, so let's use it to our advantage, not just for the dopamine death scroll we use for these days.

Josh: Yeah.

Surnen: And that gives you a sense of satisfaction internally.

Josh: Well, and I think I, I'm in some, some men's groups and circles where you, you see there's also that the, let's use men's, um. Evolution to its advantage. Men are competitive too.

Surnen: Yeah.

Right.

Josh: Competitive. And so part of our men's vitality group that we've created, I'm, I have this idea and thought to like, let's create challenges within the group.

Somebody else to do what they're supposed to do.

Surnen: See, one of the reasons we also created that, the, the, the platform was because in the UK to get an appointment to see a GP is horrendous. And by the time you see a gp, two weeks have gone, or three weeks have gone, then you gotta go for blood tests. Then there's another three weeks ago and it's so frustrating.

You just lose that incentive. People. People fall by the wayside. People often get missed because certain important conditions can get missed. So that's one of the idea is to, you can start taking accountability yourself. You can arrange blood tests yourself through the app. You can do lots of things like that.

Josh: I love it. Where do you see men's health and longevity going in the next five to 10 years?

Surnen: I think we are at the very beginning, and there's a long way to go and we are really at the early part of the curve, and, and I can see it's gonna become a huge, huge, uh, uh, in the next five to 10 years, it's gonna grow rapidly because men, the modern men, now.

Thinking about themselves more in terms of leaving a legacy. They've worked hard, especially executives. They've got the funds, they've got everything in place, but the health is now suffering and how we could, there's no point having a good life. I mean, good bank balance, but you're suffering in your health.

So men are beginning to realize this. There's a lot more to.

Josh: Well said, and well said. Quoting the sage, Virgil, and your, your wealth is, your health is your wealth. It totally is. And, and, and also living vitally means living in purpose, living in passion, living in a, you said legacy is a big word for a lot of the men.

Unnecessary medications, and I like to have these conversations with folks like you because this is how we have the conversation around, well, what makes a medication unnecessary? So in your practice and in your experience, ha, give us a few stories about people that have been able to shift away from that symptom management and the pill for the ill approach to like.

For men listening right now, like I want them to look forward to when they can do these things properly and in the right timing and fashion. What, what, what, what have you seen?

He didn't realize that there was more to his blood pressure than because it hadn't been measured for a while. He didn't have time. His weight had increased. The belly fat had the belly fat had increased, his cholesterol was rising, and he had no blood tests done. So after a long discussion with him, we said to him, we did our baseline tests and we did, did all the bed tests and showed the abnormalities, the rise in the LDL, low HDL.

Of exercising 30 minutes a day, reducing all the bad, the saturated fats, uh, having more polyphenols, olive oil, Mediterranean diet, more leafy, green veg, broccoli, spinach, kale, more healthy nuts, avocados, and, and we are monitoring him at the moment and we can see that his pressure is now coming down. His blood pressure has dropped, his cholesterol is falling, and he is a much healthier person.

So simple measure simple rather than taking tablets, rather than taking a statin, rather than taking a blood pressure pill with side effects of blood pressure, pills like cough and weakness and tiredness status, giving you nightmares and brain fog. So it's easy and simple things to do and this is what's really giving him a new lease of life.

The question is, where do you see traditional medicine falling short and where does it still have a place? Can I

Surnen: traditional

Josh: what you said really resonated because I think it's not just the, I think sometimes we, we tend to, hey, presented with blood pressure issues and waist circumference, like, and all those things, and we say like, try the lifestyle and then take these medicines, but.

What I've seen over and over and over again is nobody does the lifestyle. They take the medicine, they don't get better, and then the doctor kind of goes down the path with this client patient that just adds more medicine. Medication, not medicine, but medication. And it's like. All those simple things aren't tracked or are emphasized in the beginning, and I think our aren't.

Surnen: I think traditional medicine is that people's expectations are wrong. When somebody goes to the doctor, they expect to walk out with a prescription.

Josh: Yeah.

Surnen: And the doctor doesn't give the prescription.

Then they say, oh, well he is a hopeless doctor, you know? They come back with a negative effect. But what they, what people need to understand these days is not taking a pill, which will make you better. You're more likely to have side effects of that medication and cause more, more, and you, you're missing the essential cause of your problem.

And then using medicine finally as a support, as a support mechanism when we need it, rather than saying, let's start off with pills first. That's not your answer.

Josh: Well, I love where you brought that. 'cause you could, you could look at that from both angles, right? People go to the doctor, they have a problem, they expect a prescription.

Surnen: Yeah.

Josh: And if they don't get that prescription, they think it's a failure. Mm-hmm. So there, the opposite of that is true as well. Not the opposite, but look at it from the physician's perspective or the prescriber. Mm-hmm. They're pressured to give a prescription because they don't want a failure and they want somebody to, so it's almost this backward forward approach.

Surnen: Absolutely.

Let's get in the conversation and be real about it and say, listen, you might be coming in here for a prescription, but I don't start there.

Surnen: Yeah.

Josh: And this is why. And then you go into the conversation. So.

Surnen: And really, we should be looking at this from a younger age. We should be looking at teaching this in schools, teaching this in universities, teaching them at a young age.

Yeah. So that they grow up with this lifestyle medicine rather than expecting a prescription for every little thing. That's, that's where we should be starting education.

Josh: I agree. And I think it starts in the home, right? It starts with everyone because what we're talking about with lifestyle medicine. Yes.

Surnen: absolutely free.

Josh: It's free to, it's free to get up and walk outside and ground in the nature. It's free to go walk for a walk.

It's free to have a good night's sleep, you know, and that's why it's fun to see people smile from that. But it, it's literally true. And you said it too, but my, my definition is making it simple and easy. I also think that they need, we need to make it lucrative, in other words, valuable for somebody. And fun.

Why not? Like if you don't like walking, find another thing you like that you are going to move. It might be kayaking, it might be bicycling, it might be whatever, moving. I don't love running, but I can ride my bike a hundred miles and that's fun for me.

Surnen: Absolute.

Josh: But just walking and going for a hike in nature.

Surnen: I want every man to stop thinking is a weakness to admit a fault.

I want every man to start walking movement, and that's what I, and look at as a challenge for them. Every man to start walking 30 minutes a day will reduce your cardiovascular risk by 20 to 30%.

Josh: I love it. Um, if a man listening today, right now, successful on the outside, but struggling in the inside, what's the first step he, he should take?

Josh: and love it. It's so simple. Where, where can people learn more about your work and connect with you?

Surnen: Well, I've, I have a program, uh, called Mantro two, www.mantrotwo.com, uh, where they can connect with me. I'd be happy to have a chat with them. No obligation.

Josh: Beautiful. Yes, and we will, um. We will post all of your resources in our community site so everybody knows and moving people down the community so they can get actionable items, like talking to somebody, seeing if it's a good fit.

So we'll, we'll get, we'll get together on the backend, we'll get the resources for people to go through and moving that, moving that forward. So.

Surnen: Josh,

Josh: thank you for coming. Thank

Surnen: you for inviting me. It was real pleasure.

Josh: Lovely chat. Happy, happy to come visit you on the other side of the pond. Um, but for men, this one matters.

Guys. Your health is not a side project. It's the foundation for everything else in your life.

Surnen: Thank you.

Surnen: Thank you.

Josh: That's a wrap, guys.

Until next time, stay well. Thanks for joining me today on Beyond the Pills. If our mission to de-prescribe 10 million unnecessary medications resonates with you, share this episode, subscribe and leave a review. Whether you're a practitioner or someone ready to reclaim your health, visit rx to wellness.com For free resources to begin your journey together, let's go beyond the pills and co-create a world of vibrant health and true healing.

Until next time, live better. And stay well.