Shownotes
Clay from Bullet Vault joins hosts Kaylee and John on Gun Owners of America's State of the Second to walk through the idea behind his company: an alternative currency and payment system built on bullets, recorded on the blockchain. Clay's argument is that an American-made, full metal jacket, consistent grain weight 9mm bullet fits the textbook definition of money. In his words it is a precious metal with functional utility that is more transferable than a bar of gold. Through Bullet Vault, a customer buys a real physical bullet, takes title to it, and the company stores it in secure warehouses that already carry the FFL and SOT requirements from its gun businesses. The owner can transfer it to a friend like a Venmo, ship it to themselves to shoot, trade it into other calibers, or sell it back to the network for liquidity. Clay says the model solves the liquidity problem that has always limited ammo as a store of value.
The conversation traces why Clay built it. He and his partners own Lone Wolf and Primary Weapon Systems, and roughly a week after closing on Lone Wolf they lost their credit card processing because their processor was backed by Bank of America, which runs periodic sweeps and drops any business near a guns or ammo SIC code. That experience, which he ties to Operation Choke Point, convinced him the payments chokehold is the real threat to the industry. He built Bullet Vault on the blockchain so it would not depend on the handful of transaction processors that made the squeeze possible, and he built it compliant with know your customer laws from the very first transaction so a future administration could not shut it down as money laundering.
Around the product talk, Clay and the hosts dig into policy and culture. Clay is hopeful but cautious about the reconciliation bill zeroing out the $200 suppressor tax stamp, and he is frustrated that Congress will not fully repeal the NFA while Republicans hold the White House and both chambers. Kaylee details GOA's two letters, one from industry manufacturers and one from influencers, pushing to remove suppressors and short barrel rifles from the NFA, plus the push to add the SHORT Act in the Senate. They also discuss Gen Z trending libertarian after COVID, GOA's 2A Defenders college program and its Chambered for Success career segment, and the shared problem of being blocked on social platforms. Clay tells his own story, from Stanford swimmer to Navy service to tech to running for governor of Georgia, and ends by pointing listeners to bulletvault.com.
Questions this episode answers
What is Bullet Vault and how does buying a bullet through it actually work?
Bullet Vault is an alternative currency and payment system built on real physical bullets and recorded on the blockchain. A customer buys an actual bullet and takes title to it, the company stores it in secure FFL- and SOT-licensed warehouses, and the owner can transfer it to a friend like a Venmo, ship it to themselves to shoot, trade it into other calibers, or sell it back to the network for liquidity.
Why does Clay argue that a 9mm bullet meets the economic definition of money?
Clay argues that an American-made, full metal jacket, consistent grain weight 9mm bullet fits the textbook definition of money. He frames it as a precious metal with functional utility that is more transferable than a bar of gold.
Why did Clay build Bullet Vault on the blockchain instead of relying on transaction processors?
Clay built Bullet Vault on the blockchain so it would not depend on the handful of transaction processors that make the payments squeeze on the firearms industry possible. He sees that processor chokehold, not the guns themselves, as the real threat.
What happened with Lone Wolf's credit card processing, and how does it connect to Operation Choke Point?
About a week after Clay and his partners closed on Lone Wolf, they lost their credit card processing because their processor was backed by Bank of America, which runs periodic sweeps and drops any business near a guns or ammo SIC code. Clay ties that experience directly to Operation Choke Point and the broader payments chokehold on the industry.
How did Clay build Bullet Vault to stay compliant with know your customer laws and avoid being shut down?
Clay built Bullet Vault to be compliant with know your customer laws from the very first transaction, specifically so a future administration could not shut it down as money laundering.
What is Gun Owners of America doing through 2A Defenders and Chambered for Success to bring younger people into the movement?
Gun Owners of America (GOA) runs a 2A Defenders college program and a Chambered for Success career segment, both aimed at bringing younger people into the Second Amendment movement. The hosts tie this to Gen Z trending libertarian after COVID and to the idea that culture is upstream of politics.
What is GOA pushing for on suppressors and the NFA, and what is Clay's view on the tax stamp?
GOA organized two letters, one from industry manufacturers and one from influencers, pushing to remove suppressors and short barrel rifles from the NFA, plus a push to add the SHORT Act in the Senate. Clay is hopeful but cautious about the reconciliation bill zeroing out the $200 suppressor tax stamp and frustrated that Congress will not fully repeal the NFA.
Who is Clay of Bullet Vault and what is his background?
Clay is a co-founder of Bullet Vault and an owner in Primary Weapon Systems and Lone Wolf. He grew up in a faith and firearms household in Georgia, swam at Stanford, served in the Navy, spent most of his career in technology, and ran for governor of Georgia.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and meet Clay from Bullet Vault
- 00:17 — Rapid fire: calibers Clay is watching
- 01:23 — His EDC and favorite calibers
- 04:49 — Q3/Q4 outlook: suppressors and the tax stamp
- 09:14 — Building an on-ramp and culture upstream of politics
- 11:46 — GOA's industry and influencer letters
- 16:41 — 2020, Gen Z, and a libertarian generation
- 21:34 — 2A Defenders and Chambered for Success
- 27:54 — Reagan's diary and Trump parallels
- 31:35 — Clay's story: Stanford, Navy, tech, governor run
- 41:52 — Losing credit card processing and Operation Choke Point
- 44:30 — The bullet token idea and bullets as money
- 50:40 — Legality, KYC compliance, and the social media block
- 54:45 — Where to find Bullet Vault and sign-off
About the guest
Clay is a co-founder of Bullet Vault. He is also an owner in Primary Weapon Systems and Lone Wolf. He grew up in Georgia in a faith and firearms household, went to college at Stanford, where he swam, and served in the Navy. He worked in technology for most of his career, ran for governor of Georgia, and runs his own consulting business. He is 52 and married with two children. His brother-in-law built the Bergara rifle brand.
Key quotes
"I want a small carry weapon. I feel like I can shoot well." — Clay
"If we get 200 goes down to zero, it's a massive win for our movement." — Clay
"the great law of the universe, as so many people have said, is culture is upstream of politics." — Kaylee
"in the same way people buy gold, bullets are a precious metal as well." — Clay
"they're not just buying a crypto, they're actually buying a physical bullet that they own. They take title." — Clay
"we built this thing from the very first transaction from the ground up to be compliant with the know your customer laws." — Clay
"I understand the ammo market and the commodity price and how it undulates better than I do most equity stocks." — Clay
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're joined by Clay from Bullet Vault.
Speaker B:Clay, how are you today?
Speaker C:I'm great.
Speaker C:How are you?
Speaker B:Oh, doing great, doing great.
Speaker B:Well, let's go ahead and start with our first segment, which is rapid fire questions.
Speaker B:We're going to ask you five questions.
Speaker B:Go ahead and answer them.
Speaker B:The first thing that we're going to ask you is what are the top three markets to watch for ammo cost?
Speaker C:I mean, if you're asking like what ammo calibers am I really watching right now?
Speaker C:In addition to Bullet Vault, we also are owners in primary weapon Systems and Lone Wolf.
Speaker C:And so we're paying a lot of attention right now to 338 arc 6 arc.
Speaker C:Those are something we're pretty excited about.
Speaker C:We're coming out with some new calibers there as well.
Speaker C:And then we're also introducing an 86 blackout.
Speaker C:So I don't know if that's the best markets for everybody, but those are three that we're really focused on right now.
Speaker C:And I just got my own first.
Speaker C:I never had a 6 millimeter arc until I got basically an upper.
Speaker C:I think I got it, you know, four or five weeks ago or something like that.
Speaker C:And if I'm being honest with you, this actually I'm taking my kids and wife, we're going to our farm this weekend.
Speaker C:This was one of my big sort of focuses I'm going to cite in.
Speaker C:I've got an upper, I've got a scope, but I have not sighted in yet.
Speaker C:So that's kind of.
Speaker C:We've been selling them for a while, but this is the first time I'll actually put lead down range in mind.
Speaker C:So I'm excited about that.
Speaker A:So what is your edc?
Speaker C:You know, I mix around a couple things.
Speaker C:Most always at Sig 365 just kind of one of the regular ones, the originals, not the XL or whatever.
Speaker C:I occasionally depending on like what I'm wearing or where I'm going, like, especially if I'm wearing boots or whatever, I'll actually still anchor ankle, carry a just five round, you know, snub nose, no hammer.
Speaker C:And then, you know, at times I've carried a Sig 938 which.
Speaker C:But once I basically got to the Sig 3 65, that was the just I shoot it better.
Speaker C:I mean they carry about the same as far as size, but as far as what I feel like I naturally shoot better.
Speaker C:That's what I do Best with what is your favorite caliber in a carry or across the board?
Speaker B:Across the board.
Speaker C:Oh my God.
Speaker C:That's like asking which one of my kids do I love the most?
Speaker C:You gotta tell me what we're talking about.
Speaker C:I don't carry in a.380.
Speaker C:I'm not poo pooing on people that do.
Speaker C:But for me like a 9 mil isn't that much bigger and I feel like, you know, it's just, it's a lot more powerful.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And I, I've got a lot of buddies that'll carry like in a.45.
Speaker C:For me, caring is, I want like, I don't think people carry sometimes I think you do it or not.
Speaker C:It's like brushing your teeth or wearing underwear or whatever else.
Speaker C:It's like part of your hygiene or it's not.
Speaker C:So for me, I want a small carry weapon.
Speaker C:I feel like I can shoot well.
Speaker C: shooting, I like, I've got a: Speaker C:I won't carry that every day because it doesn't fit into some of my sort of everyday patterns of life.
Speaker C:So for me like 9 mil on that.
Speaker C:Honestly, if we talk about deer hunting, I'm sort of like, you know, my, you know, a woman with shoes and accessorizing clothes.
Speaker C:Like I'll basically pick something in a season.
Speaker C:Like I'll do, you know, I've got a 300 wind mag and a bolt that I'll use for a bit.
Speaker C:You know, Basically I did a 6,5 Creedmoor and AR10 platform for a while.
Speaker C:So I, I kind of switch it up based on, you know, what I'm in the mood to do.
Speaker C:I don't really kind of do a different caliber because I'm in short range or whatever.
Speaker C:I just pretty much do what I'm kind of into for that season.
Speaker C:And then I'm pretty much all 20 gauge, you know, like basically whether I quell, whether I dove or whatever, I'm kind of an over and under, keep it simple 20 gauge guy.
Speaker A:So who are your top content creators in the firearm space?
Speaker C:You know, that's not a fair question because since I own a couple gun companies, I tend to like the ones that like cover us and report well on us and those sorts of things, you know, like, honestly, some of the guys that are harder, like there's so many that are just for sale, right?
Speaker C:Like basically you pay them amount of money, they'll say good stuff about you.
Speaker C:So when you get like a grand thumb or something like that to say something nice about your stuff, like truly critical.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like there's some guys that are not for sale and like if they say something about you, it's fair, they'll mix in compliments with the things they don't like.
Speaker C:So, you know, I, I tend to, in general, I'd say in life as I've gotten older, I trust happy, positive things less.
Speaker C:Like if I haven't found the ward in something, I haven't heard the downside, I tend to not trust it.
Speaker C:So most of the content creators that, that I feel most proud of when they cover our stuff are the ones that I know we earned a hard vet, so.
Speaker B:All right, last question is, what is your expected outcome for Q3, Q4 for the firearms industry?
Speaker B:Are we going to be up or down?
Speaker C:I think you got to go subsegment, you know, so cans have been strong for a while.
Speaker C:If we can get, I mean, I wish they were going to get rid of the whole NFA program.
Speaker C:If I were king for a day, I would wave a magic wand and make that happen.
Speaker C:I'm sad and happy.
Speaker C:I'm sad because I feel like given who we have in the White House, we have both controls of both house of Congress, I don't see a real aspiration right now to get a congressional law to do away with that.
Speaker C:And if we don't get it right now, I worry we won't get it.
Speaker C:So, like, I'm a little bit bummed about that, actually a lot bummed about that.
Speaker C:But I'm really pumped.
Speaker C:It looks like that they're going to take, you know, the $200 tax stamp and get it to zero or some near zero number.
Speaker C:So, you know, that's a pragmatic outcome that helps us be in a better position than we are if that happens, especially if it pulls in, you know, basically pistols, SPRs, et cetera, I feel like that you'll see continue strength and suppressors and hopefully even more so.
Speaker C:And you know, I personally like, I shot suppressed when I was in the military, but once I started hunting suppressed, like I just, I don't want to hunt any other way once you do that.
Speaker C:And so like I've been in the process of, I got one or two cans and now I have a lot more because I don't want to have to sit there and look up my dope and remember how much I've got to move and everything.
Speaker C:So I am, and this is both as a gun dude and also as a gun industry guy, I'm really hopeful that they're going to basically, through that reconciliation bill, zero out the tax stamp and that we're going to see renewed and increased strength and suppressors, and that will lead to tons of folks saying, I don't want two or three cans, I want eight or nine cans or whatever.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:That's, that's the.
Speaker C:Those are the categories.
Speaker C:I think we'll see the most strength in, you know, that talking to other buddies in the industry.
Speaker C:There's some softness and bolt action rifles, there's pockets of strength, you know, in MSR space.
Speaker C:But I don't.
Speaker C:I don't see, other than shorter barrels, what makes that better and stronger across the board.
Speaker C:That's kind of my current outlook.
Speaker C:You guys see it differently.
Speaker C:You see it roughly the same.
Speaker B:I'm seeing the same.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:Just talking to people and seeing the same thing.
Speaker B:And with the HPA getting into the reconciliation bill and when this airs, depending on how it goes, we already know it's past Congress.
Speaker B:I foresee the suppressor market going up, which means we'll see probably a run on guns thread or adapted to run suppressed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I could also see almost like new subcategories coming out since you get, like, if the bill goes the way I hope it goes, then I think you see this lift in shorter barrels.
Speaker C:I think you see this lift in cans.
Speaker C:I could see there being a lot more sort of integrated uppers.
Speaker C:I mean, I wish.
Speaker C:I mean, one of the things I've been thinking about a lot and challenging myself a lot is I have a lot of friends that are freedom guys.
Speaker C:They're politically conservative, they love America, and they don't have an ar.
Speaker C:So, like, I think there's a world of people like me, probably y', all, that own a bunch of ars, a bunch of lowers.
Speaker C:And so I think there's always a market to sell more uppers to them.
Speaker C:But I think it'll also be interesting to see if the kind of press coverage leads to more people getting their first ar.
Speaker C:And I know that sounds crazy because we think about, everybody's got an ar.
Speaker C:There's a ton of people that don't.
Speaker C:There's a ton of people because they come up to me, they're like, I'm thinking about getting my first ar.
Speaker C:What do you think I should get?
Speaker C:And it's always a good reminder to me that not everybody's as much of a gun nut as me.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And that we can't just get myopically focused on our core folks.
Speaker C:We always have to continue trying to expand our tent and I think that's hard because of what the liberals have done to us with you know, meta and all this other stuff.
Speaker C:And but it, like, it'll be interesting to see is this just renewed buying amongst the core gun nuts like me or does this, does this prompt more people to come in and buy their first tactical rifle?
Speaker C:It'll be interesting to see that.
Speaker A:Yeah, we spend a lot of time talking about how do we build a better on ramp for people to get involved in the second Amendment and you know, go from the anti gun side to maybe just gun, you know, aware to a gun owner to a gun advocate.
Speaker A:And I hope that as we speak start seeing more restorations in our rights, whether that is, you know, Hearing Protection act or Constitutional carry.
Speaker A:All of those things lead to the gun culture being stronger.
Speaker A:And we know that, you know, the great law of the universe, as so many people have said, is culture is upstream of politics.
Speaker A:And so the stronger that we can make our second Amendment culture, the easier it is for the momentum to be on our side to see these restorations.
Speaker A:And I think a lot of that's coming to fruition when it comes to constitutional carry, hearing protection.
Speaker A:And then, you know, like John said, you know, we're headed to the Senate, hopefully the Senate amends to also add the Short act into the reconciliation bill so that we can have even greater victories.
Speaker C:By the way, am I being overly pessimistic?
Speaker C:I feel like we're going to get screwed.
Speaker C:We're not going to get a real bill that does away with NFA that we're going to get what's a great step for us, right?
Speaker C:Zeroing out the $200.
Speaker C:But like am I throwing in the towel and being hopeful too soon or you guys see it the same way?
Speaker C:I just, I don't feel like that that's something that's going to get pushed through and I wish it would, but that's, that's how I see it right now.
Speaker C:Do you guys see it differently?
Speaker A:So I, I think that it, it all depends on the grassroots momentum.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So when it comes to the Hearing Protection act, my understanding is that is a removing of suppressors from the nfa.
Speaker A:It's not a perfect doing away with.
Speaker A:I mean we want to see a full restoration of the second Amendment.
Speaker A:That being said, the Senate, believe it or not, is our stronger of the two two houses.
Speaker A:And so with the Senate we can see it either get stronger or even potentially getting the addition of, of the Short Act.
Speaker A:So we've got two different letters that we're working on the, the first one, we've already sent it to the House.
Speaker A:We are continuously adding additional signatures on it.
Speaker A:Which is the, the letter's name just escaped me.
Speaker A:It's the, the partnership letter.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:What is that letter called?
Speaker B:The partnership letter?
Speaker A:No, it has a fancy name.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:We have one letter that maybe it'll come to me that is like people from the industry manufacturers that have signed on that say, you know, we support goa's vision and mission to completely remove suppressors and short barrel rifles out of the NFA in reconciliation.
Speaker A:The second letter we have is actually from the influencer side saying that we as the gun media also support this and we have thousands and if not millions of viewers because ultimately this is the moment for this reconciliation is the moment for us just to get a really big victory because everyone understands that it's midterms and it may have already felt like we just went through a super long election cycle, but the reality is the midterms have already started.
Speaker A:And for people who want and need the gun vote, they understand that if the more united we can be in pushing for the short act and for hearing protection, the more that they're going to have to say yes because their seats are in jeopardy if they go back to their constituents and say, actually I didn't vote for this because of some random cause or measure.
Speaker A:And so we have the power and the momentum and the timing on our side for the first time in a very long time.
Speaker C:And by the way, when I say I don't want in any way come across as ungrateful if we get a zero versus $200, you know, on a tax stamp for suppressors, I don't want to anyway sounding grateful.
Speaker C:It's not lost to me what a huge step forward that is.
Speaker C:It's just kind of to your point.
Speaker C:If not now, then when?
Speaker C:And I've personally talked to Congressman's more on the House and you know, when you're talking to somebody that's trying to tell you what they know you want to hear and it just, I haven't felt enough conviction from enough folks for me to be confident that that's their hill to die on, they're going to push that through.
Speaker C:So I don't want to sound ungrateful for the tremendous efforts that y' all and other organizations are putting into it.
Speaker C:If we get 200 goes down to zero, it's a massive win for our movement.
Speaker C:I, I hope I'm not being overly pessimistic.
Speaker C:I continue talking to Congressman.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:I just feel Like, I know when I'm being bamboozled, right.
Speaker C:And sometimes I just feel like they're like, yeah, it'd be great, wouldn't it?
Speaker C:You know, it's like, no, I want to hear you say, we're going to do that come hell or high water.
Speaker C:And I just, I don't always feel that conviction, so.
Speaker B:And I think that that is very reminiscences of the gun culture as a whole in the past is that we feel like we're, we get a step forward and then we feel like we're getting two steps back.
Speaker B:Like we got the, the assault weapons ban in the 90s.
Speaker B:It got sunsetted.
Speaker B:Okay, cool.
Speaker B:We got it.
Speaker B:And then they come after something else.
Speaker B:I think right now as, as gun owners and, and from the movement of seeing the grassroots going through the, you know, the influencers and things like that, we're seeing a resurgence going.
Speaker B:No, we're going to actually come out and push for this.
Speaker B:We're normally, we're very quiet.
Speaker B:We're called the silent majority.
Speaker B:We're actually being loud and taking, I guess you could take a page from the liberals playbook.
Speaker B:And we're going out and we're contacting the senators and congressmen and letting them know this is what we want.
Speaker B:And with that, that pressure that we're putting onto them, I foresee that we hopefully will get it.
Speaker B:We've already seen them go from.
Speaker B:They went down to zero in the original bill, but the NFA still applied and now they've removed that completely at zero and no NFA off the NFA for suppressors.
Speaker B:So hopefully with that pressure.
Speaker B:We saw the pressure just over the course of what, four days, hopefully with that continued pressure from gun owners, we'll see them go.
Speaker B:No, we got to fully restore this as a whole.
Speaker C:I didn't know they'd removed the nfa.
Speaker C:I knew it had gone to zero.
Speaker C:So that last three or four days you're talking about, I didn't see that one over the weekend.
Speaker C:If we end up at that spot, that would be awesome for us.
Speaker C:I mean, that'd be a great place to be.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, the one that passed the House, what was it two days to do?
Speaker A:Yeah, it was after their, like through the night session.
Speaker A:Our, our guys over in Federal Affairs, y' all pray for them because they are forget burning the midnight oil.
Speaker A:I mean they are burning at both ends.
Speaker C:Hey, can I, can I pick up on something you said a few minutes ago?
Speaker C:Yeah, that it.
Speaker C:I'm curious to bounce something off of you.
Speaker C: was great for our movement in: Speaker C:That's horrible for our country when we had pandemonium in the streets.
Speaker C:It was good for a movement when people finally realized that they may call 911 and not always be able to depend on somebody else.
Speaker C:And we saw, you know, this massive influx of first time gun buyers.
Speaker C:I know some of that's been sticky, but I think that was just fear.
Speaker C:A lot of that was fear in the moment sort of purchase as opposed to deep philosophical realignment.
Speaker C:You made the comment that culture has to lead policy.
Speaker C:So I've got kids.
Speaker C:My son just graduated from high school.
Speaker C:My daughter's about to start her senior year and she's well behind enemy lines.
Speaker C:She's going to be a senior at Georgetown.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:And she was a senior in high school during the height of COVID And there's a lot of kids in her class that were not, you know, right, a center gun nut folks like me, small government people like me, but they were told so many absurd things, you know, like literally they would get yelled at because they would be running down a soccer field with a mask on and try to pull it away so they could actually breathe.
Speaker C:And what I have observed in my kids generation is we may be raising one of the most rabidly libertarian generations because they saw what big, dumb, oppressive, big brother government looks like.
Speaker C:It's not like they all grew.
Speaker C:I mean, my kids grew up in a gun nut household.
Speaker C:I served.
Speaker C:You know, like my daughter asked me, dad, you think they're gonna let me carry a Georgetown?
Speaker C:I'm like, honey, you chose the wrong spot.
Speaker C:But, but what I saw from many of their friends that, that were moderates, even some slightly left descenders.
Speaker C:There's like, I don't want the government anywhere near my life.
Speaker C:I don't want them telling me what to do.
Speaker C:I don't trust them.
Speaker C:Like, and I feel like if they are able, as they start earning money to increasingly see that, you know, high taxes and all these promises we make.
Speaker C:People come at the expense of liberty, come at the expense of people creating capital.
Speaker C:They could actually be a bedrock that could be a whole new generation of people.
Speaker C:Because I feel like their distrust for Big and their love of personal freedom, that's, I feel like sticky.
Speaker C:I don't think that's like someone had their garage broken into and went out and bought a Glock 19.
Speaker C:I feel like these are people that really hate big, stupid government.
Speaker C:Intruding in their life.
Speaker C:So I'm curious if you guys are seeing the same thing, but I am really interested to see how that thing kind of tracks over the next five, 10 years and if that is a shot in the arm for our movement.
Speaker A:No, 100%.
Speaker A:So I'll kind of speak one more broadly and then kind of talk about what GOA and our sister organization GoFundMe is doing.
Speaker A:The the first thing is I think what you experience with your own children is something that is not a just a you experience.
Speaker A:I think that that is something that we're seeing across the board.
Speaker A:There's an excellent book by Isabel Brown and she writes about Gen Z and how they are far more conservative and libertarian and why that is.
Speaker A:And part of it is a natural kind of pendulum swing of culture where we went, you know, super to the left and now there's a correction over towards the more right of center, which is good for our movement.
Speaker A:The other thing is she talks a lot about how people are craving tradition, people are craving a understanding about themselves.
Speaker A:And so much of what we're seeing has been this identity politics of finding yourself.
Speaker A:And what she kind of hypothesizes is a lot of that comes down to our natural rights and understanding that the government didn't grant us these things.
Speaker A:It wasn't a permission slip or a gift tied up in a bow that it was.
Speaker A:These are inalienable rights.
Speaker A:And so the more that especially Generation Z is looking at those things and begins understanding them, the firmer the foundation will be for the next generations to follow.
Speaker A:On the GOF side, you know, we have a college program, two way defenders.
Speaker A:You know, we're on college campuses.
Speaker A:We do a lot with universities.
Speaker A:Well, not necessarily with the university themselves, but with students who are are wanting to fight against the echo chamber that they're in.
Speaker A:So often we have students reach out to us and they will have gone to a school for two, three, four years, maybe they're a senior and have never heard a counterpoint to what the anti gun propaganda is on their universities.
Speaker A:And so we have a speaker's bureau and students can request and we work with the students to actually have us out on campus and have a conversation so that we can fight against that echo chamber and let other viewpoints be known so that there can be healthy dialogue because they're never seeing the other side of the coin.
Speaker A:And so that is also super important.
Speaker A:And then the other thing is we've noticed a lot with students who are wanting to get into the firearms industry and they Just don't know where to start.
Speaker A:They don't.
Speaker A:You know, they're not going to be able to find information about internships or about job openings at their university's career center because their university is not dialoguing with the industry.
Speaker A:And so we've launched through two a defenders, a segment called Chambered for Success where we sit down and give career tips and advice for students in particular.
Speaker A:But really anybody who wants to get into the firearms industry, because we're going to have to have strong manufacturing, we're going to have to have people willing to innovate in the space if we want the Second Amendment to continue.
Speaker A:And so providing those avenues and those touch points are so vital in not only reaffirming the Second Amendment, but making sure that generations have it beyond our own.
Speaker C:Yeah, I felt it was, I felt like at times it was a bit of a theoretical discussion 10 or 15, 20 years back on your gun rights matter because fill in the blank or you know, the founding fathers knew that the Bill of Rights didn't mean crap unless there was a second Amendment.
Speaker C:They were distrustful of power.
Speaker C:Like these were things that we may have believed.
Speaker C:And as someone that served overseas, I could talk about what I've seen, but I think at times people found that to be a theoretical argument here at home.
Speaker C:And that got very real, you know, over the last two or three or four years and it's no longer something people like, yeah dad, that's just old fashioned worry talk or whatever.
Speaker C:Like I think people see that and they feel it now in their gut viscerally because of what we've seen happen in our country in the last three or four years.
Speaker C:And I think that'll have a lasting impact.
Speaker C:I hope it does.
Speaker C:I hope that.
Speaker C:You know, I had a friend once say, you know, that sound you just heard is the bullet whizzing past your ear.
Speaker C:I hope our country remembers the infringements they've seen over the last two or three or four years on freedom of speech, freedom of thought.
Speaker C:I mean all of these things.
Speaker C:If we're going to have that horribleness we've had, at least maybe we can benefit from it with a renewed commitment.
Speaker B:This is brought to you by Patriot Mobile.
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Speaker B:They use the same towers as the big brands and even to the point where if you have they, you can switch between networks, between AT&T and Verizon and all that.
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Speaker B:The other point that I want to bring up is even in the election we saw Gen Z come out in droves and vote very conservative where they were deemed to be very liberal.
Speaker B:And it just shows that that culture shift just right there where they were reporting, oh, Gen Z comes out, oh, wait a minute, wait, they're not doing what we thought they were going to do.
Speaker C:Well, it'll be really interesting to see what happens to the liberal movement over the next few years.
Speaker C:I mean, I don't know what they're for then.
Speaker C:They hate Trump.
Speaker C:You know, I mean, it's one of the most fascinating things is I love Bill Maher, for example.
Speaker C:Like I love.
Speaker C:And you saw it with the podcasters during the election.
Speaker C:Like there's these folks that they actually truly believe in freedom of expression, freedom of thought, freedom of speech that basically are looking at their own peeps saying, look like, no, you don't get to tell everyone what to think and basically say they're a bad person.
Speaker C:I disagree with you.
Speaker C:Like, for me, one of the most interesting things going on is that split in their movement of the folks that believe different things than I believe.
Speaker C:They may not be pro gun, they may not be pro life, they may not be pro God, but they're pro say and think and let the marketplace of ideas win.
Speaker C:And I think they're freaked out by how tyrannical their own team got in the last two or three years.
Speaker C:I mean, I think it's fascinating to watch.
Speaker B:Well, it's funny you bring that up about the, about actors and comedians and things pushing this on the flight here.
Speaker B:I watched the Reagan movie.
Speaker B:Highly recommend the movie, and I guess it was somewhat biographical, but even in that movie, in the 60s during the communist movement, Reagan basically said, as the head of the Actors Guild, we as actors are here to act and not push a political agenda.
Speaker B:When did that change?
Speaker B:We see it now.
Speaker B:We're kind of seeing the same shift back.
Speaker B:But Even in the 60s during the communist movement, Reagan and the Actors Guild was very going, no, we are actors.
Speaker B:We are here to entertain people.
Speaker B:We are not here to tell them what political views they should have.
Speaker B:And it's crazy how that shifted too.
Speaker C:And look, at some point you'll have to cut me off because I'll just nerd out all day long with you on, you know, right wing freedom stuff.
Speaker C:Have you ever read Reagan's diary?
Speaker A:I have not.
Speaker B:I haven't either.
Speaker C:Hugely recommend it.
Speaker C:And I'll tell you what was fascinating me about was Two or three things because I always try to.
Speaker C:It's a little bit like all this canceling of history that's gone on for the last few years, right.
Speaker C:It's like people just, they don't think about what it was like in that day when I read Reagan's diary was fascinating to me.
Speaker C:Was one, he was being just completely attacked by conservatives for thinking we could have less than 70% taxes.
Speaker C:Like they thought he was not wrong, he was crazy.
Speaker C:Like people thought he was going to destroy the world.
Speaker C:And he was so calm, he was so resolute.
Speaker C:He believed that ultimately he was going to win the day because he really believed in his soul because he'd seen these things.
Speaker C:I mean, he wasn't a 33 year old political wonder, kind like a Bill Clinton or an Obama running for office.
Speaker C:Like this guy was older in his life, he'd had tread worn off his tires.
Speaker C:He had, you know, he had had his life threatened by the communists when he was an actor.
Speaker C:He believed these things in his soul.
Speaker C:He was so cheerful and so calm and, and I, I say that and, and this isn't, you know, for people that love or hate Trump or wherever people are on that whole thing.
Speaker C:You know, in one of my businesses, I have employees that they don't believe everything I believe.
Speaker C:And we had no hands and they asked me about these things and they, they are so eager to jump to a judgment like, you know, terrorists are announced, so the stock market goes down and this is the end of the world.
Speaker C:And I'm like, y', all, you need to understand, like there's a 100% chance that we are in a irreversible path to a banana republic, debt default, hyperinflation state, unless we do something very, very different.
Speaker C:Because every empire goes on this path, right?
Speaker C:Like you become the world's reserve currency.
Speaker C:You get the printing press of money.
Speaker C:Everyone basically lets you borrow this money.
Speaker C:And then you go to the poor house.
Speaker C:And the only question is whether it takes decades or centuries.
Speaker C:Like it happened to Spain, it happened to Britain.
Speaker C:I could go on and on and like that is the path we're on, short of doing stuff very different.
Speaker C:And when you look at the things that we're trying to do different right now, reshoring, manufacturing, I mean, these are big, big things.
Speaker C:And it's so interesting to me to watch the present just kind of like, I don't know if he'll pull it all off and it's not him.
Speaker C:It's a team effort.
Speaker C:But like he's trying to do Something generational for our country.
Speaker C:He's calm about it, he's resolute about it.
Speaker C:He's in, he's a happy warrior about it.
Speaker C:And this isn't something you look at the stock market on Friday and go, is it working or not?
Speaker C:And I mean, like when he basically said a couple months ago, there may be near term pain, we're trying to save the country.
Speaker C:When's the last time a leader said that?
Speaker C:You know, I mean, when's the last time someone said, I'm asking the country to have a little bit of sacrifice for the greater good over a long period of time?
Speaker C:And so it'll be interesting to see are we in fact living through this hugely monumental period in history and do some of these things work?
Speaker C:Because when I see the President's sense of positive resoluteness and just calmly proceeding forward, it really reminded me of reading Reagan's diaries where everyone thought he was crazy, everyone thought he was wrong, he was going to blow the world economy up, he was going to get in World War Three.
Speaker C:And he wasn't defensive, he was just, he had it in his heart, he had the conviction.
Speaker C:And it's really interesting to look at those parallels, I think.
Speaker B:Let's go ahead and just talk about how you got into this, who you are, a little bit about Bullet Vault and you can talk about and touch on any other companies that you, you do as well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I mean, you know, kind of back the envelope.
Speaker C:My history.
Speaker C:I grew up, you know, a Southern God gun guy.
Speaker C:Grew up in Georgia.
Speaker C:Happiest times for, you know, deer hunting in October, November, you know, missed some college football games because I didn't come in after dark on Saturday afternoon sort of thing.
Speaker C:Went to college at Stanford, not because I was probably that I made good grades, but I would never have gotten in had I not been a decent swimmer.
Speaker C:And so that opened up some doors in my life.
Speaker C:It paid for my way through college.
Speaker C:Lower middle class upbringing.
Speaker C:So we could never have afforded Stanford even if I had gotten in and I wouldn't have gotten in.
Speaker C:So, you know, the what?
Speaker C:And I got into swimming because I was a really sick kid.
Speaker C:You know, I needed stronger lungs, they put me in the water.
Speaker C:Cardiovascular sport.
Speaker C:So I get to Stanford, I start studying, like I mentioned earlier, these things can be theoretical at times.
Speaker C:I studied a lot of public policy, a lot of macro econ policy.
Speaker C:Have always been interested in these things.
Speaker C:Have always been interested in, you know, things like national debt and where we're making investments as a nation.
Speaker C:You know, those Sorts of things.
Speaker C:Got out of school, thought about going into the ministry, applied for Rhodes scholarship to study divinity.
Speaker C:I wasn't ultimately that smart.
Speaker C:I drink and I cuss too much.
Speaker C:But you know, I still have these strong connections to, you know, the, the religious beliefs with which I was raised.
Speaker C:I mean faith is center point of my life.
Speaker C:And so I'm getting out of school, I'm noodling over do I want to be a minister or do I want to go into the military?
Speaker C:And you know, I, I've decided that's what I was called to do.
Speaker C:I figured eventually I would go into business.
Speaker C:But you know, I'm 52 now.
Speaker C:You know, when you're 22 or 23, I literally remember telling people now you can serve God and country in your 20s.
Speaker C:It's not like you can do that when you're 50.
Speaker C:50 Seemed ancient at the time.
Speaker C:So my swim coach at Stanford was a Marine Corps sniper.
Speaker C:That sort of probably watered some of the seeds have been planted my, my southern youth.
Speaker C:So I decided wait, try to get a commission, go into the Navy, join the teams I ultimately did.
Speaker C:Figured I would, you know, date as many women as I could until I was 30, committed to none.
Speaker C:Until I met the love of my life at a bar on a Friday night at a very young age.
Speaker C: to: Speaker C:Thought the world was getting boring.
Speaker C:How short sighted was that?
Speaker C: So I got out in: Speaker C:I went up there, I worked for a while and, and I really have been in various forms of tech for most of my career.
Speaker C:I worked for a couple of global technology businesses, ran a business with a few thousand people for one, with employees in a bunch of different countries, um, felt guilty that I hadn't served, went back, you know, I said I'd served.
Speaker C:But it's not like in the late 90s when Clinton was present, I had, you know, gone down range and hunt the enemy.
Speaker C:Forgotten country like it like that opportunity wasn't in abundance when I was in the late 90s and it certainly wasn't an at bat that I got.
Speaker C:So I felt guilty that so many of my buddies were doing stuff that mattered and I did.
Speaker C: went back in the reserves in: Speaker C: And then, you know,: Speaker C:And so I went to.
Speaker C: that I worked with in Iraq in: Speaker C:And I was just like, what's going on up here?
Speaker C:Like, I hear all this crazy stuff.
Speaker C:All I know is what I read in the paper.
Speaker C:You know, President, you know, 45 Trumps talking about a coup.
Speaker C:And he looks at me, goes, what's going on?
Speaker C:Is all of it's true.
Speaker C:I'm like, come on, it can't all.
Speaker C:Like, really?
Speaker C:He's like, wake up.
Speaker C:He's like, like, yeah.
Speaker C:Like, these are desperate times that we're in.
Speaker C:Like, there are big pools of power and money that want to control the world and want to control the country and will stop at nothing to do that.
Speaker C:And he went into some details on what had transpired, what had been done.
Speaker C:And, I mean, I got furious.
Speaker C:I like, and I often will get angry at injustice or tyranny, and sometimes it passes.
Speaker C:It didn't pass.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:And then probably, you know, shame on me.
Speaker C:I don't know if you want to say that I had, you know, I had flirted with the establishment.
Speaker C:I mean, I went to an incredible university.
Speaker C:I worked in tech.
Speaker C:It was all working for me.
Speaker C:A beautiful wife, two kids, nice house.
Speaker C:Like, I wanted to believe desperately that the system worked and that the rules worked because I was good at making the system and the rules work for me.
Speaker C:Then all of a sudden, I realized it's screwed.
Speaker C:And the system and the rules are rigged against truth and righteousness.
Speaker C:For the good of the big and the powerful and the rich and everyone listens is probably like, duh, what took you so long to figure that out?
Speaker C:But that was my light on the road awakening experience.
Speaker C:So I flew home.
Speaker C:I told my wife that, you know, hey, look, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to get involved.
Speaker C:Like, our country's on a horrible track.
Speaker C:These are desperate times.
Speaker C:I sort of start thinking about the problem set, realized DC Is a big problem, probably be on my pay grade.
Speaker C:Decided to make my state a little bit better.
Speaker C:Decided to find someone good to run for governor of Georgia.
Speaker C:Talked to some of the candidates.
Speaker C:I didn't get to all of them, but, like, the ones I talked to just seemed like more of the same.
Speaker C:I mean, even though they were Republicans, I was looking for Republican support.
Speaker C:I didn't.
Speaker C:I Mean, it felt like corporate Republicans.
Speaker C:It felt like people to me that memorized the taglines and the punchlines.
Speaker C:So I went and started trying to recruit folks from outside the system that build businesses to run.
Speaker C:A bunch of them talked to, said, I don't want to run.
Speaker C:I just want to help you raise money and help you get in the office and do it different.
Speaker C:And you know, basically to a person they were like, that's crazy talk, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker C:But you seem very motivated to do it.
Speaker C:Maybe you're called to run.
Speaker C:Eventually I felt like I was called to run.
Speaker C:I knew I was jumping in late.
Speaker C:I knew I didn't have a great chance to win, but I was convicted.
Speaker C:I couldn't have told you the purpose.
Speaker C:And you know, kind of a story for another day is I, I did have a role in sort of affecting the Republican primary in a meaningful way.
Speaker C:Brian McKent became governor and that's been good for my state.
Speaker C:But there's several things I got wrong.
Speaker C:One thing I got wrong is I told my wife, hey look, no matter what happens, all my buddies in big tech will be happy to have me back.
Speaker C:I mean I always had great results.
Speaker C:You know, I was a high performer and I believed it.
Speaker C:And how stupid was that?
Speaker C:You know, when folks figure out you're a God gun guy, you're somehow less welcome back in.
Speaker C:Some doors had always been thrown wide open for you.
Speaker C:So whatever age I was at the time, 45, 46, and you know, I've got a mortgage payment, kids in private school and you know, I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my life.
Speaker C:And I decided I'd always talked about being an entrepreneur.
Speaker C:I've probably paid enough money I would never have had the guts to do it had I not been given the push, the big boot in the ass by the Almighty.
Speaker C:But here I am at 45, I start my own consulting business, have been blessed with some success in that.
Speaker C:But the other thing is, like I said, the rights and freedom were getting a lot less theoretical and a lot more real to me.
Speaker C:Even as I started my consulting business, there were doors that were closed in my face because of my beliefs.
Speaker C:I, I definitely lost money for being canceled because of what I believed.
Speaker C:And my brother in law and best friend had built Bergara Rifle brand.
Speaker C:You guys probably know it wasn't just him that he had been there when they were 7 or 8 million dollars year in revenue and had basically played a meaningful role in over some time becoming the CEO and built that business into 100, $200 million a year sort of business.
Speaker C:And so we're sitting at deer camp and he's like, what are you going to do for money?
Speaker C:Which is kind of code for you going to be able to take care of my sister.
Speaker C:And I said, well, you know, I'm starting my own consulting business.
Speaker C:I said, I've really, you know, through running for office.
Speaker C:I'm passionate about jobs in small towns.
Speaker C:I'd love to find a manufacturing business to buy, you know, smaller than an NFL city.
Speaker C:He snaps his fingers in the air.
Speaker C:He says, you know, you should buy a gun company.
Speaker C:He's like, you don't know shit about making guns and selling guns, but because you're a team guy, you understand guns and, you know, you love guns.
Speaker C:And he was like, I could kind of give you the cheat sheet and help put some pieces around you.
Speaker C:And so we had a small group of us that, you know, pulled our money and, you know, started looking around.
Speaker C:We bought Lone Wolf, which was early in the, you know, Glock centric pistol parts and accessories business.
Speaker C:First AR I ever bought was a primary weapon systems ar.
Speaker C:They're both out in Idaho.
Speaker C:I was doing some consulting business out there, so ended up buying PWs as well.
Speaker C:And, you know, kind of now I'm in the gun business as well as the tech consulting business, but at another sort of.
Speaker C:And all of these are sort of.
Speaker C:They form a narrative.
Speaker C:And they were probably just these increasingly, increasingly clear points of awakening for me.
Speaker C:And so I think it was like we closed on a Friday on Lone Wolf.
Speaker C:And I think like the following Wednesday, my CFO called me and said, hey, bad news.
Speaker C:We're losing our credit card processing.
Speaker C:Which, you know, that's an E commerce business.
Speaker C:That's a headshot, you know, that that's not something you recover from.
Speaker C:And I'm like, how?
Speaker C:Why?
Speaker C:What are we going to do?
Speaker C:And he says, well, it turns out the credit card processor we selected, we disclosed what we do for a living, what business.
Speaker C:They're backed by bank of America, and bank of America does a periodic sweep.
Speaker C:And basically, you know, everybody that's anywhere near an SIC code of guns or ammo, no bueno.
Speaker C:And so they basically gave them an order to drop us.
Speaker C:And, you know, we lose our credit card processing on whatever day it was Friday.
Speaker C:So we instantly went to work begging and threatening while we frantically looked for another credit card processor, which wasn't easy to find because we're in the 2A space.
Speaker C:So eventually we sorted that out.
Speaker C:But it scared the shit out of me.
Speaker C:And it really pissed me off because, like, put aside that I'm a gun guy, like, this is America, right?
Speaker C:Like, you go pass a law that says I can't do business in America, at least have a fair fight in the light of day.
Speaker C:But, like, this whole, like, you know, dark, you know, smoky room.
Speaker C:The banks get together, Operation choke point, and they basically decide to shut industries down.
Speaker C:I mean, it's not just wrong, it's nefarious.
Speaker C:And so I started thinking about, what is there to be done about that and is there a chance to make money on it?
Speaker C:And so I actually spent probably over a year looking at doing, like, a God gun bank.
Speaker C:Because it isn't just us, right?
Speaker C:Like oil and gas.
Speaker C:I mean, no one feels sorry for oil and gas because they're big.
Speaker C:But I mean, there are faith groups, there's pro life groups that.
Speaker C:I mean, there's.
Speaker C:There are people that do construction for churches and pro life centers that are blocked from certain types of business.
Speaker C:So, like, this doesn't only affect us in our movement.
Speaker C:So I looked at, you know, could you do a God gun bank?
Speaker C:And the more I looked at it, banking's an incredibly difficult business, is very regulated by the government.
Speaker C:So I felt like even though that was an important thing, I didn't think that totally solved the problem because it didn't solve the payments problem.
Speaker C:And I mean, that was really.
Speaker C:I say that was my fear.
Speaker C:We are now having a pendulum swing our way with President Trump and having control of Congress.
Speaker C:I think we are foolish to believe that the fight is over and won forever.
Speaker C:Like, right now, people are not as worried about that.
Speaker C:And I'm glad that we're having a moment where the freedom pendulum swinging our way, But I'm not unworried that it won't go the other way in the future.
Speaker C:And so, you know, I basically started thinking about.
Speaker C:I mean, because, sure, you guys are like, me, like, I got a bunch of bullets, right?
Speaker C:And, like, I've sat there before being like, well, hey, look, I want you remington a 70.
Speaker C:I've got a bunch of ammo.
Speaker C:Let's do a. I mean, like, you know, it's almost an alternative currency for redneck freedom guys like me.
Speaker C:But there are limits to that, right?
Speaker C:Like, at some point, like, when the whole corner of your basement or your garage is full, you're like, okay, yeah, this, like, honey, you're right, right?
Speaker C:And also, like, if you buy all of, like, I've got a ton of ammo, that's for stuff I don't shoot or guns I don't have anymore or whatever.
Speaker C:So you end up with sort of dead ammo, right?
Speaker C:Like stuff that you have that's just.
Speaker C:It's going to be there when my grandkids clean out my house, you know, when I'm dead one day.
Speaker C:And so I started thinking, like, could you have an alternative currency, a payment system, if you will, based on bullets operating on the blockchain?
Speaker C:And the reason I say the blockchain is for two or three reasons.
Speaker C:One that provides sort of ubiquitousness to it.
Speaker C:And also there are, as y' all probably know, a.
Speaker C:The reason Operation Choke Point was so effective and nefarious was because there's only a handful of transaction processors that are out there.
Speaker C:So, like, they don't have to take over 15 or 20 of these things.
Speaker C:They can go get two or three or four and they've won.
Speaker C:And so it is very difficult to replicate that.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, it's expensive to replicate it.
Speaker C:It's difficult to get that sort of stickiness in the market.
Speaker C:But the blockchain is almost a platform that can almost act like a payment system if you have a front end to it.
Speaker C:As long as it's backed by something.
Speaker C:Well, if you back it with the banks, then they do what they do, right?
Speaker C:So, like, that was my thought was there could be something called a bullet token, a bullet reserve, which is behavior that exists.
Speaker C:I buy a bullet, I might want to shoot it, I might want to shoot it later, but I might just want to store it because I might want to store it because one, I'm a person that is terrified about our national debt.
Speaker C:I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker C:2020 Covid spending is now our new baseline.
Speaker C:We benchmark ourselves against.
Speaker C:So I don't see a way that we either don't make tremendously difficult choices as a country or have inflation.
Speaker C:I hope I'm wrong.
Speaker C:I am hoping and praying for President Trump in Congress.
Speaker C:But I still have that long term fear that structurally we owe too much money and inflation is a threat.
Speaker C:And so in the same way people buy gold, bullets are a precious metal as well.
Speaker C:They're a precious metal.
Speaker C:That is a statement about your value system that has functional utility and is actually more transferable than a bar of gold.
Speaker C:And so that was the thought behind Bullet Vault was, you know, let's go build this thing.
Speaker C:I had super nerds with my consulting business.
Speaker C:You can build literally anything in the world.
Speaker C:They believe the things we believe.
Speaker C:They were excited about it.
Speaker C:We were passionate about it and so we basically built a platform.
Speaker C:You know, we benefit because we've got secure warehouses with the gun business that, you know, have all of the securities and all the climate controls that you have to have to get an FFL and an sot.
Speaker C:And so, you know, the ideation was let's have a business where someone could come in, they could buy what's really the closest.
Speaker C:I mean, if you look at the macro econ 101 definition of money, forget dollars for a minute money.
Speaker C:A 9 millimeter bullet has all the different definitions.
Speaker C:It's transferable as long as you scope it correctly and you're not talking about all these weird foreign crap, you know, versions of it.
Speaker C:As long as you're talking about American made, you know, full metal jacket, consistently consistent grain weight, new.
Speaker C:It has the definitions that shells had or gold coins had back in the day that dollars evolved from.
Speaker C:And so that was the idea was someone could come in, they basically are buying a bullet, or they can buy a thousand bullets, or they can buy 10,000 bullets.
Speaker C:Each one is recorded on the blockchain.
Speaker C:And they're not just buying a crypto, they're actually buying a physical bullet that they own.
Speaker C:They take title.
Speaker C:We store it securely in our warehouse and it is yours, it is theirs.
Speaker C:They can transfer that to their buddy just like you would do a Venmo.
Speaker C:They can ship it to themselves and shoot it.
Speaker C:They can trade it into other calibers.
Speaker C:So back to your earlier thing.
Speaker C:Like I might have grown up sort of a 308 guy and now like sometimes I'm a 6, 5 or 6 millimeter art guy.
Speaker C:So it gives you that flexibility to sort of buy now, hold value and then ship a different caliber later.
Speaker C:And you know, that's how it works.
Speaker C:So it gives you a lot of the financial transferability that you enjoy with a Venmo, that you enjoy with a, like, you know, the, it's not a banking account.
Speaker C:But the things that you replicate by having bullets that there has always been a limit to because there's no liquidity, we solve the liquidity problem.
Speaker C:I mean, in theory, bullets are a great investment.
Speaker C:They haven't moved much in two or three years.
Speaker C:But like, I'm thinking there'll be another day where we see 40, 50 cent around 9 millimeter bullets.
Speaker C:In theory, that's a good investment.
Speaker C:Like we have all seen that undulation sine wave if you wait two or three or four years, if it goes up and down.
Speaker C:But it's only a good investment if there's liquidity and with this, you can actually get liquidity.
Speaker C:So if your bullets go to 50 cents, you can basically sell back to the network and cash out a 2x.
Speaker C:And look, if 25 goes to 20, then you lose 20%.
Speaker C:But, like, you get to watch the sine wave that we've all seen over our lives.
Speaker C:And for me, I'm more confident I understand the market for ammo better than I understand the market for Nvidia stock.
Speaker C:I mean, like, I, if I make money, like, I'm actually not in the stock market.
Speaker C:And the reason why is because if I make money in the stock market, I call myself lucky, not smart, because I know all these hedge fund guys have got all the angles and all the advantages, right?
Speaker C:Like, I, that, that, that's not a market that I consider to be transparent and fair, that I have a way to compete in today.
Speaker C:But I understand the ammo market and the commodity price and how it undulates better than I do most equity stocks.
Speaker C:So that was the idea behind it.
Speaker B:I love the concept of Bulavault.
Speaker B:I love the idea.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker B:Is there any.
Speaker B:Do you foresee any legality or anything?
Speaker B:Like, for states that have ammo restrictions and things like that?
Speaker B:Do you see anything that would end up blocking this in the future or is.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So look, I don't.
Speaker C:We built this so that we could potentially achieve dreams and do something meaningful for our movement.
Speaker C:Will we be that blessed?
Speaker C:Time will tell.
Speaker C:God knows, and I'll find out when he's supposed to tell me.
Speaker C:But we, we built it that way from the ground up.
Speaker C:And so let me give you an example.
Speaker C:We built it from minute one, compliant with the know your customer laws that govern the banking system.
Speaker C:So, like, I never wanted to end up being successful with this thing, having it become a payment system for our industry that's essential to our freedom.
Speaker C:And have some liberal man or woman in the White House send their attack dogs and be like, hey, you know what?
Speaker C:That first year, you basically did a bunch of transactions.
Speaker C:You don't know who it was.
Speaker C:It might have been money laundering.
Speaker C:Like, we built this thing from the very first transaction from the ground up to be compliant with the know your customer laws.
Speaker C:And so, like, before someone can do a transfer, we, we, we verify that, you know, they're a citizen, their identity, we check the state they're in.
Speaker C:We can't do this in every state because, you know, there's these states that live under tyranny that you guys know well.
Speaker C:So we built it from minute zero to be compliant with all of the laws, so that it could evolve over time into a transaction system.
Speaker C:Because we assume if we're successful, people will come after us.
Speaker C:We have to be beyond reproach.
Speaker C:So that was one step that we took.
Speaker C:Now, you brought up something that I'm going to twist your question to the one I want to talk about, because you're asking, I think, about what laws are out there.
Speaker C:They're going to bite us in the ass and get us shut down.
Speaker C:And I'm not saying we thought through everything, but Lord knows we spent a lot of time around a campfire with lawyers trying to game theory.
Speaker C:How would we screw us if we were the lib bulls and we were out to shut us down?
Speaker C:Okay, if you ask me what I'm afraid of in my business, it's the same thing that I'm afraid of for the gun business.
Speaker C:Like, there aren't enough old and aging white guys like me that love God and country, that grew up deer hunting in Georgia in the fall.
Speaker C:Like, eventually we're all going to die.
Speaker C:Like, we've got to find a new generation to get our message to them.
Speaker C:And as long as those guys at your Facebooks, I mean, look, I love what Elon's doing, but, like, that guy, I hope he hears somebody and, like, opens up X to us.
Speaker C:But, like, as long as we're all blocked on these social media platforms, we have a sustainable growth problem.
Speaker C:We have a challenge getting our message out.
Speaker C:And that's the biggest single challenge I have in my business.
Speaker C:When people hear about Bullet Vault, they love the concept.
Speaker C:When they go to our.
Speaker C:Like, we had metrics on, like, how many people we could sign up and all these other things.
Speaker C:Do you know where our business has struggled compared to our expectations?
Speaker C:I can't advertise and tell people about myself because those same tyrants are basically saying, I don't want God, gun ammo dudes getting out to gen pop.
Speaker C:That's the one that I worry about.
Speaker C:That will be the single biggest challenge for our success.
Speaker C:And it's the same challenge I see for the gun industry as somebody who.
Speaker B:Was in marketing, in ammo, and in the firearm space.
Speaker B:The amount of times that we had been blocked on Facebook or Instagram or or TikTok or whatever because of something we said, it's just insane.
Speaker B:And Elon's opened up X a little.
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker B:So hopefully we see more of this with the.
Speaker B:The broing coming out with Zuckerberg, and then we'll hopefully see more.
Speaker B:But on that note, we have to wrap up because we have another one of these in 10 minutes.
Speaker B:So go ahead and shout out any socials where people can find you things like that.
Speaker C:Yeah bulletvault.com I'm so grateful to get to talk to you all about this because like I said, opportunities like this to connect with your folks, our folks, like they are essential to our business.
Speaker C:So thank you so much for giving me a chance.
Speaker C:I appreciate what y' all are doing.
Speaker C:Like I said, if we can't get stuff done for a movement right now controlling the White House with this president and Congress, it's now or never.
Speaker C:So thank you all for what you're doing.
Speaker C:Bullet Ball.com please support us.
Speaker C:Come check us out.
Speaker C:We're nothing without you.
Speaker C:And grateful for you and grateful for you guys to let me talk.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:If you have not yet like share and subscribe to this podcast.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Again Clay, thank you for being on to us.
Speaker B:And guys, you have a great rest of your day.
