Burned out by endless work and still barely making ends meet? Pat Miller sits down with maverick pet photographer Arica Dorff to expose how she ditched the traditional 250-session grind and now earns more while working just three months a year from her camper van.

Episode Highlights 🎤💡:

(11:40) - Working Three Months a Year

(15:44) - Reverse-Engineering Your Ideal Income

(22:51) - Training Clients Around Your Boundaries

Connect with Pat Miller ⬇

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Connect with Arica Dorff ⬇

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I'm Pat Miller and this is The Professional Photographer podcast. What if you hit the lottery and you could be any kind of photographer that you dreamed of and you could work as much or as little as you like. What if that future is possible for you even if you don't win the lottery? What if with a little bit of professional design, you could have a studio that shoots exactly what you love on the hours that you dream of and everything will be just fine? That's what our guest is doing. Arica Dorff is on the show today and she takes photos of pets and she works three months a year. She's off nine months a year. She travels the country in her van and she is living her dream life. Life. On this episode, she's going to tell us how you can do the same thing. It might not be taking pictures of pets around the country, but it could be your definition of success. You have more to say in this area than you think, and Arica will give us all of the answers. We'll talk to her next. Arica, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on the show. How have you been?

I'm doing great, Pat. It's really nice to see you too. I've been kind of traveling the world, half the world.

So really tell us about it. Going all over the place.

Oh, I was in New Zealand for seven weeks and went home to Hawaii, which is where I grew up. I was there for the three weeks and finally got back to my camper van. I parked my camper van for two and a half months. That's the longest I've ever parked it somewhere. So very happy to be back in my van and just on the west coast. Just traveling the west coast again.

How exciting. And we get to learn all about the camper van and the life that you've built. So if someone hasn't had the pleasure of meeting you yet, tell them who you are and what you do.

Sure. Thank you. I'm Arika Dorf. I am a pet photographer. I'm in my 20th year of business. So I started in 2006. I opened my studio and half the time, 10 years I was studio photographer and the last 10 years I've been a mobile photographer. So after about 10 years of my business, I sold the studio and few life things happened and then I ended up moving into my camper van. So I actually have been living in my camper van and traveling the US for the past six years and incorporated my business into that which we can talk about. And that's what I do. I play music. I drink hot tea. Yeah.

And I cruise the country all over the place. Yeah.

I follow the weather. That's what I do. So I follow the weather. Yeah.

It's fascinating to me that we are free and we can do something like that. And we get to explore in this episode what's possible and how we might be able to build a business that we love. Because I would assume this freedom and this roaming around the country. I would imagine that you love it after doing it this many years.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. In the beginning, I was thinking, I'll drive around, I'll find a place that I really like and maybe I'll settle somewhere. And after like a year in the camper van, I was like, I don't want to live in a house that sounds terrible. Like, I want to keep moving. And I just love van life. So it's probably not forever for me, but right now at this season of Life, it's amazing. I love it.

You lived the photographer life. Now you have this new version of the photographer life. Those are two different versions of success. So how does today's version of success compare to the one that you used to have? Can you kind of compare those two for us?

Yeah. I mean, they're both photographer life. Right. We get to build the life that we want. But I guess the studio life is very different from the mobile photographer life. Right. So studio life, it's like you have a studio and it's almost like you're married to it. Everyone knows who has a studio. I mean, you're there every day. You put in way more than 40 hours a week. I had employees when I was there, I had three employees. We had a 2,500 square foot beautiful studio, chandeliers, luxury vintage couches, the whole thing. My pricing was different then, which maybe it's opposite of what you would think now. So when I sold my studio and I went mobile, I actually raised my prices and I actually doubled my sales average by going mobile. And I think the reason for that is because at the studio, even though I was still considered high end ish, it was much more high volume in the sense that I was shooting 200 or 250 sessions a year, and I didn't have any kind of a minimum. And mostly because I didn't want to scare people off. I needed people to come through the door. I needed to take them through the whole experience and the consultation and shooting the session and talking about their home and doing the big theater presentation, you know, showing their images large When I sold the studio, I was like, I'm not going to drive all the way from Oregon to New York for someone to get a couple of eight by tens, you know, so I have to have some kind of a minimum. So that automatically kind of weeded out a lot of the people who were just looking for a few eight by tens or just to spend a few hundred dollars. So that's been working really, really well for me, doing it that way. And I only work three months out of the year now. That's probably the biggest difference. So I work for three months. I fit all of my portrait sessions into the months of September, October and November, and I take 40 portrait sessions during that time. And I've incorporated Van Life into it. So it's doing a cross country road trip. So I'll book all of my portrait sessions in July and August. I hit the road in September, make a big loop around the country, and I'm shooting portrait sessions or I'm going to whatever states where I have portrait sessions booked. So like some years I've gone to all the way down to Florida and, you know, across through Texas and other years I don't have sessions down south. So I just end up going to New York, maybe drop down to Virginia and then, you know, head back. So. But I do that, I shoot for three months, I deliver everything in that time, I'm done, and I take nine months off every year. Wow.

That is where we all want to get to a lifestyle in that kind of control, making plenty of money and being able to do whatever we want in life. But we got to take some steps back here because working a lot, worrying about making enough, seeming like the work never ends. That pressure of owning a studio and a business was your previous life. How did you go from that to this? Was there an aha moment or something that just struck you that made you go, I'm throwing this all into the ocean. I'm going to take pictures of dogs?

No. So I think what happened? Well, I've always photographed pets, right? That's always been my heart for sure. When I sold the studio, I think it was just burnout. I was burnt out at that point. And I took. I actually stopped, you know, I saw the studio and I stopped shooting. And I thought I was never gonna shoot ever again. And I was just like, I'm good. That was a great chapter of life. Moving on to other things. And I took about a year off and I was dabbling in just some, some fun things, you know, just nothing that was making a Lot of money. But one day I was like, okay, so I could spend eight hours a day doing this thing for fun that I'm making a hundred dollars a day, or $150 a day, whatever, doing right. Or I could take these eight hours and shoot a portrait session and make, like, $2,500. Hmm. You know, so. But I was like, but I don't want to do the studio thing. And I was still. I feel like it took me years to get over that burnout. Even though I only had the studio for almost a decade, it just felt like it was like three years before I was over that burnout. And I think it was just the stress. Like, my rent in Las Vegas at a retail storefront was $4,000 a month, and that was just rent, and that wasn't employees or equipment or air conditioning, braking or, you know, anything else. So there was just so much money going out. And so when I got back into it and I said, okay, I'm going to start shooting sessions again. I'm going to travel, and I'm going to go around and travel and do this. But I really want to understand my numbers, because that's something that I didn't do when I was at the studio. You know, at the studio, it was just this mindset of, like, we just need more sessions and we need to make more money and we need to raise our average. And it's like, for all of us, all us photographers, it's like, what's the point of that if we don't understand our numbers and we don't understand how much we're paying ourselves and how much are we putting away for retirement? And I know that almost sounds like cliche to be like, understand your numbers. But it's like, it's been so powerful for me since I've become a mobile photographer to truly understand my numbers. And some people have heard me talk about this. I do the Profit First Money Management System. Do you do it?

Yes, absolutely.

It's the best thing. It's the best change I've ever made in my life. I have so much peace about the money that I have, because I know where it all is. I just click on my little. My app and I look at my bank account, and then I go, oh, I know all my little categories. You know, I went into the bank the other day, I had to make a change to one of my accounts, and she's like, which account do you. You have 10 accounts here. Which account are you want? You know, And I'm like, yes, I do have 10 accounts, you know, so. But just to super quickly touch on it for people who don't know what it is, it's just, it's a book called Profit First. It's a money management system where it's like the envelope system, right? So you're just taking the money that you have that you make in your business, and then every week or two weeks or every month, you just move that money into different envelopes, right? Different bank accounts. And that's been the most powerful change for me to just go, perfect. I paid myself, I put money aside for retirement. This is how much money I'm putting in to run my business. And if there's not enough money in that account to pay for all of your business bills, then you're not doing your markup properly. You know, you're not charging enough. You're–It's just a really simple way to understand your numbers without being a mathematician and having a bunch of spreadsheets.

So you don't talk to a mobile photographer every day. In fact, I haven't done an interview with a mobile photographer yet. So that's the first thing that's a little different. The second thing is a little different is that you are totally at peace with your numbers and, and you know them all. I wish everyone did. But the third thing that's really different. You said when you had a studio, you lived the life that we all live, which is, I can't get enough sessions. More, more, more, more, more. And now you travel all around the. All around the country. You do 40 sessions three months a year, and that's it. I don't want anymore. That is weird. In a good way. How did you arrive on that?

Well, and pat, I pay myself like three times as much as I did at the studio.

Oh my.

Imagine this. Okay, so imagine I have my studio doing 200, 250 sessions a year. I have three employees, right? Busy, busy, busy. And at the end of the year, I would do my taxes and go, I made $20,000 this year. And from the outside it looks like success, right? Because it looks like, oh, this big grand studio that you have and every. And, and there's some great things that we did at the studio, right? I was employing people. That's great. I was happy with the work I was doing. It's great. I'm giving back to the community. I'm doing adoption portraits. Families are happy with their portraits. All of that is great. But at the end of the day, I'm not saving for retirement and I'm making $20,000 a year. I could go back to waitressing like I did in college and make more than that, you know, so it's. And it's because I didn't understand my numbers and because so much of my money was going to operating expenses, to running the business, you know, so when I went mobile, I mean, obviously the big advantage I have is I don't have the overhead that I used to have. Right? But I pay myself so much more because I understand my numbers and I don't have the overhead, but like for. Just to share some numbers with you. So I was making like between 200 and $250,000 at the studio gross, right? And then pay myself like $20,000, like 10% of that because that's all that was left after I paid everything, right? So now that I'm mobile, I grow. So I shoot about 40 portrait sessions. Like I said a year. I'll take up to 50, but I won't take more than 50. It's just too much to do. In three months. My sales average now is $2,500. So I'll make anywhere from 100,000 gross to 125,000 somewhere in that range. And I'm paying myself, I do everything by percentages, right, because we do the profit first system. So I'm setting my 10% aside for retirement and I put my 15% aside for my taxes and then I'm paying myself. 40% is my, like, take home in my pocket, you know, 30% goes to run my business. And yeah, so I'm so on a, on a normal year, I guess, if you're doing the math. Let's see. Because I get a tax refund, I'm counting my retirement, right, as part of my paycheck, but I'm making around 60,000, you know. And so like I said, I'm paying myself like three times as much. I'm only grossing half the amount that I did before.

Right.

You know, but I think it's. To go back to your. What you said earlier, it's like, what does success look like? It's like for me, I just, I think we should all be living our lives and basing our business model, like on the lifestyle that we want to live, you know, and for me, I don't want to work year round. That doesn't sound like fun. That sounds terrible. I can make the money that I need to make, like in three months. And I think it actually creates a demand for what I do. You know, I have a lot of clients who all of them know, you can only book me in these three months. You know, you can't book me in January and July. It's like. And I'm only going to be in your area for a few days or a week or two weeks, you know.

So you're a lot like the circus with a camera.

Yes. Without the tents, the monkeys.

Hopefully there's, you know, who knows, the wildlife you have to bring with you. But the circus is coming to town. But still, I want to get back to the question. I've never met a photographer that wanted to do fewer sessions that wouldn't do more if they were capable. You're taking, you know, eight or nine months off. That's incredible. But a skeptic would say, oh, Arica, you could really cash in, do more. Why not?

You know? And that goes back to, how do you want to live your life? And how do you define success? Because I don't want to grow my business. I don't. I'm happy with the amount of sessions that I'm taking and what my clients are spending. Like, yeah, I have some people who are like, oh, this is great for marketing, and you should do this, and we'll, you know, give you photo credit. And I'm like, I don't want to grow my business. I don't need to market my business anymore, you know, because I'm only taking 40 sessions a year. So, yeah, and I think that's where we all need to sit back and go, what? What's our goal? How do we want to spend our time and how can we get there? It's reverse engineering, right? So for people listening, it's like, you know, okay, what. What do you want to pay yourself? Let's start with that, right? And go backwards with like, okay, well, you know, what's a realistic sales average that we can reach and how can we reach that? Right? And then, okay, so if that's the case, how many sessions do we need to shoot? For some people, if you actually run the numbers and you don't have a huge overhead, like having a studio storefront with $4,000 a month in rent, some people can really do one session a week and hit their numbers just perfectly fine and make the money that they want to make and be able to spend their time doing what they want, whether that's spending time with your dog, going and traveling, being with your family on Sundays to go to church, like, whatever that is.

You know, you said it earlier, but this can be a feature, not a bug. If you're going to do one session a week because you want to make this much money. We just did the ARICA plan. We reverse engineered everything. We know that if we do one session a week, we'd be great. Great. That can become a feature, not a bug. Meaning I care about my clients so much, I only take one session a week.

That's it.

So if you want to book with me, book with me, because once I'm full, I'm full.

Yeah, well, and think about that, even for people who want to work year round, right? Because I'm. I'm basically doing one session a week. I'm just cramming it all into three months. But if you think about the amount of time that we spend, you know, with each client between booking and shooting, editing, you know, ordering, session, printing, delivering, all of that, that can easily fill the one week. And we make our money that we need to make for that week. And. And you're probably going to be working on more than one session at a time. Right? People are overlapping, but I just think it's. Yeah, we don't need to. It's the whole, you know, the bigger, better mindset. It's like, bigger is better and more. And as we all know, the more money you have, the more money you spend, you know, and it's like. So I'm not saying that we shouldn't have a goal to make more money in life, but if. If that's your only goal and it's. There's no purpose behind it, then it's just more money and you're just going to spend more. So it's like, we have to be really intentional about how much we don't want. We can't just want more money just because we want a bigger number. And I was guilty of that at the studio. I remember one year when I made $200,000, and I was like, okay, my goal next year is to make $250,000. I was still only paying myself 10%, you know, so it's like, let's be intentional about. About how much we're making and how. How we're spending it and how we're spending our time, even if we don't

get to keep the money. It is how a lot of people keep score. It's kind of an arms race of how much I'm billing versus the other gal or the other guy. And this whole concept of just opting out of that rat race, just saying, no, this isn't the lifestyle for me. And I've heard you say that this starts with not necessarily Money. I mean, we have to have enough money to pay the mortgage or whatever it is in our life. But it really starts with core values. Can you talk about that?

Oh, it does, right? I mean, yeah. I think it goes back to how do you want to spend your time and what is important to you? And like I had mentioned before, everyone's. It's different for everyone, right? So I. I'm a budget traveler. So when I travel, even when I go overseas, like, I went to New Zealand and I was there for almost seven weeks, and I did that entire trip. Lodging, food, Entertainment, airfare for $5,000.

Wow.

So I stay in hostels, and I hostel hop. And a lot of the hostels I stayed in were like US$25 a night, you know, and sometimes I splurged, and I was like, I'm gonna get 40 US dollars. But like, my brother, for example, like my brother and his husband, they're in Italy right now. They're on a cruise, and they fly first class. They stay in fancy hotels, they eat at Michelin restaurants. You know, they get like the nicest balcony room. And probably what they spend on their airfare is what I spend for seven weeks overseas somewhere, you know, but that's great because that. That's what works for them. We all have different. We value different things. You know, some people, it doesn't have to be this big traveling the world. It could just be. Like I said earlier, you want to not take portrait sessions on the weekends because you want to be with your family. That's your family time, you know, I learned this, like, beautiful lesson from Lori Nordstrom years ago when I started my studio, and she had young kids at the time, and she was doing portrait sessions. She was offering them on Tuesdays and Thursdays and at 11am and 1pm okay, so four sessions a week is all that she offered. And a lot of people were like, wait, but your clientele is kids and all the kids are in school. And she's like, yeah, because when they. My kids get out of school, I want to be with my kids. I don't want to be photographing other kids. And people can take their kids out of school one day out of the year to do this, you know? So I just think all of us can create our business the way that we want to because we're going to attract the right clientele for us. Yeah. If you need to shoot 500 sessions a year, then maybe you have to bend a little bit more and do things way that you don't want to. But if you're doing the whole one, you know, one a week type thing, 40, 50 sessions a year to make your numbers like there's enough clients out there for you to do your business the way that you want to, to live your life the way that you want to. And again, that could be not offering portrait sessions on the weekends or on the evenings and not answering emails at 10pm or whatever that looks like for you.

You know, so many are conditioned to the social contract of office hours. Monday through Friday, 8 to 5, that's when I work. If someone's listening right now and that's the life that they're leading, how would you encourage them to take the first step? Because to go from Monday through Friday eight to five, that's how I do it, to nine months off a year, that might be a big first step. So if we want to start taking baby steps towards a more in control lifestyle, what would you tell them?

Yeah, it's all about training our clients. Our clients are the way they are because of the rules and boundaries that we've put in place or that we haven't put in place. Right. So I think about when I first started my studio and people would roll in, you know, and December 15th, and they'd be like, I would love to book a Christmas portrait session. And you're like, dude, it's December 15th. Know that to them it's 10 days before Christmas. They're like on top of it, right? But you know, a year or two into my business, I would have people calling and they're like, arc. I know it's the end of October. I'm sorry I'm calling so late, but I'm hoping I can do Christmas portraits, you know, because we can train people to. This is what, this is what we do. This is how things work. This is what to expect. And know earlier I said answering emails at 10pm like if we do that, that's what people expect from us. And if we take 24 hours to answer emails, that's okay because that's what people are going to come to expect from us, you know, So I think for those people, like the question you're asking is just setting your. Like, I didn't open my studio till 11 because I am not a morning person. Let's just. That's what. Because that's what works for my life. So I. Everyone knows, you know, that just I'm not there till 11 o' clock and I'm usually not answering the phone till noon, you know, so I think it's just Training your clients and doing. Yeah, doing things in baby steps. Or maybe if you're open on the weekends, like changing it to by appointment only, you know, and just changing your voicemail and putting that on your website and putting a little note on the door, you know, and maybe for the first month, the door's locked, but someone goes to jiggle it, and then you go and answer it, and then you're just like, oh, just so you know, I'm changing to by appointment only. But you're still there. It's not this huge change, you know, but it's just training people on, like, this is. This is what I'm doing now.

So can we get some of this effect if we just narrow down the types of photography we're doing as well? If we feel like we have to do every flavor of photography, but our heart is really with real estate photography, if we start narrowing down our products and services, can we take a half step towards what you're doing?

Yes. But to also answer your question, I think we should only ever be doing things that our heart is in. And that might sound really simple and easy to say when someone's like, yeah, but I need to pay the bills. But, like, but, yeah, but you need to be marketing to people and working with people that you're passionate about the type of photography that you're doing. Because I promise you, no matter what kind of photography you're doing, there are clients for that. And again, if you need to reach hundreds, thousands of clients a year, yeah, that's when you're going to be like, oh, I got to go do these soccer portraits I don't want to do, or these school portraits, or, you know, I got to go shoot this wedding because someone asked about it and it's going to make me $4,000, so I got to go do that. But, you know, if we're really, like, focusing our energy and understanding our numbers and all of that, and if we only need this smaller amount of portrait sessions and focusing on how can we make more money from each portrait session, have a higher sales average from each person, we only need to. We should only be shooting the sessions that we want to in the type of genre that we want to shoot in. You know, for me, like, I work with animals, and that's all I've ever done. You know, someone. I very rarely have someone book a session that's not with an animal. And I always laugh that I'm like, I don't know how to pose you. I don't know what to do with Your hands. You're supposed to be holding a dog.

You know, where's the dog?

Where's dog? Yeah, so. Oh, I'm sorry. I don't even know what your question was, because I was just like, only shoot the things that you want to do.

No, I love that you shared that, because I agree with you. But there is this feeling that I need to pay the bills and everything is put upon me, and this is something that I have to do or else. And what you're sharing is a different way to go through our professional life, which is inspiring and I appreciate it. But even when people go backwards and they work with the end in mind and they reconstruct what it might look like, and I could only work these hours even then, I think there are some that would feel like they need permission from someone to make a change like that. How can. How can we get them to move towards a different future if that's how they feel? Gosh. I mean, my brain goes to the other end of the spectrum. I'm like, if you were to die tomorrow, would you be happy with those soccer portraits that you had to shoot today? And I know it sounds very dramatic to say that, but it's like, really? Like, how do you want to spend your time? It's just. It's just so important. And. And there's also times, like, I'm not trying to, like, draw a line in the sand. Right. And I know I keep bringing up soccer portraits probably because I had a client once that was like, what you? And I'm like, oh, God, that's the last thing. But it's like, I understand if you do. You know, there's this money in front of you and this, you know, sure, if that's going to help pay your bills that month. Like, I'm not saying draw a line in the sand and don't do it, but I would say do it. Sure. Make the money, but don't market it. Don't put it on social media. Like, keep your brand very specific to what you want to do, you know, that you're putting out there in the world, and that's where you're putting your energy. Sorry, Pat. I keep forgetting your questions because I feel like I'm getting on this.

Like, you're nailing it. You're talking. The answer is perfect with what you're sharing, because it is a life or death situation, because we only get to do this once. If you do volume photography just to pay the bills for 10 years in a row, and then you decide, I'm not going to get those 10 years back. You don't get to do this twice. So there is a courage and an encouragement that you're giving people to make a courageous choice like this. But then there's another person that's watching this saying, well, Arika, you're so talented and you've got this all figured out. I could. Now I'm not good enough to do what you're doing. Can you get after that limiting belief because people are going to think there's no way I could do what she does because she's Arica. Come on.

Oh, gosh. I think, you know, I think we're all put on this earth for different reasons. And I think whatever you're passionate about, whatever you're naturally drawn to, that's part of your purpose in this world. So for me, like, as a child, like, I knew I was going to work with animals. So as a kid, you know, what are you going to be when you grow up? I always said a veterinarian. I could never be a veterinarian right now, but that was the only occupation I knew as a kid that worked with animals. So that's what I said, right? And as I got older and I could never be that because I don't have a science brain and that it sounds so not fun. Like, I get to work with animals right now and people hand me money and they're thanking me. Right? Thank you so much. This is so amazing. And I feel like with the vets, not that we don't appreciate our vets, because we do, but no one is happy to spend money. No one is happy to go to the vet. Right? So I, like, as I got older, I knew that I was going to work with animals. I just didn't know how. And that's just what comes naturally to me. So when I hear people like, like, oh, like pet photography, that's the big thing. Like, I should do that. Like. Okay, but do you even like animals? Like, is that even a thing for you? So I think when I think about, I'm looking at the portrait behind you and I think, is that Erica's portrait on the, the dog?

Jonathan's. I'm not sure there's a photo credit. Hang on. Erica Lane.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So she, she's lovely. I'm looking at her dog portrait and even within that genre, right, she has the dog dressed up. There's branches coming out of his hair, there's flowers, the whole thing. And even though I'm a dog photographer, I would never do that. And it's because my brain doesn't work that way. That does. That's not interesting to me. Right. The portrait that's on my wall is like my dog with. In the. In nature with a mountain behind it. And both of them are amazing and beautiful in their own way. But I'm never going to try to do that, what she does, because that's just not my passion, right? And that's why I'm not like, I don't really like weddings, even if it's like, for a friend. I'm like, ah, weddings. Like, I should never shoot a wedding if someone, even if someone's like, I'm gonna pay you $10,000, I should not do that because I'm not the right person for that job. So to go, to answer your question, it's like, people can see, dogs can see through that. People like, don't go and try to shoot boudoir photography if that's a passionate thing for you to do, right? If. If you don't understand a certain genre, like, you know, if your child has special needs and you want to focus on those sessions, like, that's a field that you understand really well. That's something that's close to your heart. Like, that's going to come through when you're talking to people and when you're working with those kids. So I just think, like, why? Like, it's almost like the path of least resistance. Like the thing that you want to do is the path of least resistance, you know, because that's what you're already passionate about and interested in and you already naturally know a lot about that subject. Just do that. Like, don't make it more complicated for yourself. The. It's complicated and it's hard because you put barriers in your way. It's like, if people are like, oh, yeah, but I don't know, off camera flash and I don't know, studio. Well, do you even like that? If you don't even like that, like, you like natural light. So just go and shoot a natural light. That's all you need to do. You don't need to know everything. You don't need to do everything.

It's really inspirational. It's challenging. It is. Turn the interview off and sit in a dark room and think kind of conversation. Because you're right, we get to think about what we want out of our life and out of our business. And this has been a great reminder. And I'm sure there are people that want to follow along with you on your journey. So how can we continue our education or stay in touch with you while you drive around the country.

Sure. So, I mean, you're going to see a lot of Van Life pictures because the only thing I post on my business page is when I'm working. So I'm not. I don't have like a marketing strategy. I don't market year round. It's like when I'm shooting sessions, I post, you know, at that time and then my business page goes quiet. But on Instagram and on Facebook, my personal page is Arika Dorf. And that's where you're going to see all the Van Life pictures and paddle boarding and hiking and world travel and arcador photography is going to be all of my work.

Well, we're excited to see that. Thank you for the inspiring conversation today. Congratulations on all your success and I really appreciate you coming on the show.

Thank you, Pat. Thank you for what you do and sharing all of this with the world.

Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of The Professional Photographer podcast. Do us a favor before you click away, click like, click subscribe, and leave a comment. What did Arica say that made you say, huh? Okay, I can do something with that. Or what questions might you have? Or who else should we interview? Drop it all in the comments. The PPA team and I read every one and it helps us make a better podcast. Speaking of PPA, if you're not yet a member, come on, you are missing out. PPA offers incredible resources like equipment insurance, top notch education and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. That's PPA.com. I'm Pat Miller, founder of the Small Business Owners Community and the host of the show. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you right here next time. Take care.