What does real power actually mean — and why do so many modern relationships feel unfulfilling or shallow?

In this episode, I’m joined by Cassie, a tantric feminine power mentor and spiritual teacher, for a deep conversation about inner power, attraction, meditation, and the subconscious patterns that quietly shape our dating lives. We explore what tantra really is beyond the stereotypes, how feminine power differs from control or force, and why confidence and stability are built internally rather than through status or validation.

We also discuss how Vedic and Transcendental meditation calm the nervous system and reprogram limiting beliefs, why stress and childhood conditioning often repeat themselves in adult relationships, and how unprocessed trauma influences who we’re drawn to. Cassie explains sexual energy (Eros) as a form of life force and creativity, and how modern culture often trades depth and intimacy for convenience and short-term pleasure.

The conversation moves into masculine and feminine polarity, attraction versus safety, and why compatibility, shared values, and emotional maturity matter more than chemistry alone. We talk about why many people remain stuck in unhealthy relationship cycles, the difference between healing and integration, and how real growth often requires dismantling old identities to build something more grounded and authentic.

We also touch on the NoFap movement, ancient spiritual philosophy, and why so many people crave meaningful connection yet struggle to find it in today’s dating culture.

If you’re interested in dating psychology, conscious relationships, meditation, self-development, or understanding masculine and feminine dynamics in a modern context, this episode offers a thoughtful and grounded perspective.

Cassie, in your Instagram bio, it says you are a tantric, feminine power mentor.

So what does tantric mean?

What does.

Well, yeah, what does feminine mean in your idea?

And then what does power mean?

And then I guess mentors are a bit more obvious.

But what is that, in your opinion?

Well done on the mouthful and pronouncing all of that.

So basically what I do is I work with women and I do have male clients as well, but primarily women, to really embody and activate their power.

And when I say power, that probably brings up a lot of connotations for people with different things.

And the truth is I cover the full spectrum of that, but mainly it's really accessing your inner truth, your deep confidence, your embodied sense of who you are that really translates into everything else.

So your relationships, your career, your health, your longevity.

There's this essence of power.

And how I landed there was.

I've done so much study and so much training and all these different modalities and things, and really the common thread that I felt underpinned all of that for me, with all of my life experiences was actually power.

And not in terms of trying to control and manipulate other people.

It's quite the opposite.

It's actually true.

Power is so quiet and it's.

It's within that you feel fearless, you feel confident, you feel like you can trust your wisdom and lend into your intuition and you can really go for it in life.

So if we're feeling disempowered in our lives, in our relationships, and that is just nowhere to be.

So basically it starts with you, and that's what I help people do.

So power.

You don't mean power in the conventional sense.

You mean, do you mean sort of self belief?

Would that be a better way of putting it?

Or belief?

I mean, that's part of it.

But as I said, when we think about power, we probably have negative connotations with that word.

Right.

And how I work with power is this power versus force paradigm.

So in the civilization you say power versus Force?

Yes.

There's actually a beautiful book called Power versus Force by David Hawkins.

And this goes very deep.

But essentially, force is what we kind of have associated with power.

You know, it's that kind of trying to dominate and control and manipulate and, you know, assert ourselves.

Whereas actually true power is understated and it doesn't need to be, you know, announced, it just is.

So it's actually shifting the way we think about it completely.

Have you read 48 laws of power by Robert Green?

It's Robert Green, isn't it?

I have.

I actually really love Robert Green's work because he is, you know, he loves the stories, he loves history, mythology, and he, he accurately assesses these social structures and dynamics.

So his version of power is basically how do we understand the laws of power as it relates to society and other people?

Whereas what I teach is how can we cultivate inner power within that structure?

Within the structure of society or within the structure of an individual?

Within structure of society.

Okay.

And is because I've written Sandansam, I've been.

I was looking through your blog posts and reading a few of them and I was looking, thinking at some of the things that you are like associated with and there's some crazy stuff in there, at least like stuff that's completely out of my vocabulary.

What does are you verdict mean?

I have heard that to be fair.

But.

I love, I love it.

I love that you're like, there's some crazy stuff in that book.

And yeah, I've gone in a very deep sprint spiritual journey.

I've traveled to many sacred sites in different countries and have been exploring the esoteric sciences for over a decade.

And part of that was you asked about Ayurveda is the timeless science of life from that originates in ancient India, but it's truly nature's language and it's universal principles of how we can live a longer, healthier life to.

So it's really a health system first and foremost, but it's holistic in the way it really incorporates absolutely everything.

It's a, it's a mind, body, spirit philosophy.

Am I right in thinking that you have a.

Something to do with one.

What's a 111 health?

Is that.

Yes.

So 111 health is one of my businesses and my business partner Dylan is a really well known diabetic practitioner and he's just this beautifully embodied master of his craft and a.

And the other half of that who knows how to bring things to life and you know, build a brand and translate that to beautiful products that our customers would really love and actually use.

So what I realize this is the thing we do at the end, but we're doing it now.

What is.

Is that like, are they products of health products or is it more of.

A. Yeah, health products.

So we have.

We focus on daily rituals and our flagship product is called Bliss.

And I won't talk too much about this because I know we want to get into other things, but I could talk about Bliss for a whole podcast.

It's an adaptogenic gland that supports the nervous system and this is a real staple for so many people.

And we work with these incredible values in India to bring this to life.

And this has been a formula that's, you know, heritage formula.

It's been around for hundreds of years.

So it's.

It's.

It's incredibly special, what we do.

Okay, perfect.

And then sort of sidestep onto you as a.

As a coach or as a mentor, I guess, because that's the word that you use.

Maybe that's a.

Maybe that's more apt terminology, what you mentor.

Well, I know what you mentor with, but can you put into sort of layman's terms what it is that your mentoring philosophy is what you're trying to achieve and people are coming to you with issues?

Yes.

So mainly I work with.

With people that are on their spiritual path.

They typically come to me because they're looking to go deeper in that or they may have some relationship troubles.

That's usually what brings people to me, because relationships are so fundamental.

You know, everybody wants to know about it.

Right.

And the reason why that happens is because relationships are like this activation and this mirror for us.

So usually they're, I guess, a barometer for how well things are going and how high.

So that's typically who I work with.

And I use three different categories of tools and processes with people to achieve their outcome, whatever that is for them, because this is completely individual.

There's no one person that's the same.

So I use a modality called Psych.

K. I was going to ask you about that.

Perfect.

Right.

So Psych K is a psychosomatic healing method, and it uses the subconscious mind through muscle testing and what's called balances, which are activating a whole brain state to transform a subconscious state.

So transform limiting beliefs in the subconscious mind.

You asked about beliefs earlier.

That is certainly an enormous part of this.

It's also transforming so stress and neutralizing trauma.

Because what can happen when we are stressed or have experienced difficulties in our lives and we haven't processed them properly, or we have inherited limiting belief patterns, which we all do from early childhood, typically under the age of eight.

We've just basically been running on this default program our entire life, and it's running everything behind the scenes.

And we can make very, very quick change within a short space of time that will dramatically alter the filter with which you're seeing the world in.

And this can be huge.

So I use that and also I use my tantric training.

And Tantra is very misunderstood in the West.

Basically, people think about Tantra and they go, you're doing some crazy sex positions.

And the sexual sacred sexuality component of Tantra is such a small part of it.

In the grand scheme of things.

This is actually a philosophy of life.

It's a spiritual science.

It's how we manage our energy and how we use different tools to expand our consciousness.

But I also apply that to specifically Eros, so our sexual energy.

And I work with women to really unblock and activate that because that truly is such an incredible source of power.

It is the cosmic force of this entire universe.

It's how everybody got here.

So I work with that.

And then I also work with people in terms of really practical guidance and mentorship and things in their life, using various philosophies and spiritual frameworks, but actually not giving advice, but guiding them back to what is their inner truth, because that's the most important thing.

I don't sit there and give advice to people.

I know a lot of people out there on TikTok and everything, they're just giving advice.

That's not what to do.

Because that would be me assuming that I know better than you.

Whereas my philosophy is that everybody contains the wisdom within themselves.

They just need to shift a lot of the debris that's sitting on top of that so they can actually hear their own wisdom.

So what's it called?

Eros.

E R O S E R O.

S E R O S. And that is.

That is what, sexual energy?

Yeah, it's your life force energy, it's your creative energy.

It's all the same energy.

Yeah, that's.

There's.

There's a.

There's a movement.

God, I want to go into this.

There's a movement across, among young men called NoFap, which is basically, no, not using pornography.

And there's this idea that when you get different, like you get a spectrum of the ideology and one end of the spectrum is this idea that preserving your.

What you just use there, like life.

It's your life force, it's your.

I don't know what.

It's your most raw, potent energy force.

And the idea is that preserving it.

I've never heard the term Eros before, but that obviously relates to what those sorts of people are.

Have been saying.

It's.

It's a.

It's not as big as it used to be, actually, but it was a massive movement sort of five, five years ago.

So that's interesting.

Eros.

I didn't know that was a thing.

And then the.

What was the other thing you said about.

What was the other.

Did you say another energy force actually.

Just on that quickly.

I have heard about this movement but the.

The funny thing is this has been around for thousands of years actually.

That's a good point.

And this is very, very well known and Daoism and Chinese medicine that particularly for men.

Yes, exactly.

Like you need to preserve this life force energy.

And there's actually a whole body knowledge on this and there's a book about.

It's the Secrets of the Jade Dragon by Sheili.

I think that.

Let me.

We can put this in the notes.

But if anyone listening to this wants to actually learn a bit of the sacred ancient philosophy around that.

Yeah, it's.

It's a whole thing.

But what were we asked.

We were talking about.

You want to show what was your question before?

Well, no, the questions are irrelevant.

Is irrelevant.

That's more interesting.

The whole.

A thousand.

The thousands of years.

Yeah.

So why do you think that is?

What does.

What does it detail in the book about?

Because obviously it's different for men with women, I guess is different process so to speak.

I guess the idea of the call it like preserving your seed or something like that.

And like anecdotally.

What do I think about that?

Do I think there's some truth to it?

Yes, I probably do think there's some truth to it actually.

Yeah.

And particularly for young men, all men, you know.

But there's actually an Ayurveda when the men are teenagers, they're, you know, maturing.

They actually send them away.

This is what they used to send them away and make sure they were celibate during these very formative years where their body was still trying to actually develop.

Because excessive dispersion of this energy can lead to just so many different problems.

Psychological, physical, energetic, spiritual is actually I think becoming a really huge problem for young men.

I mean I can't speak to this, you know, directly, but I have so much compassion for this situation because I think young men and women, you know, essentially everyone wants connection and they want love and they want to experience these, you know, really this depth that sex can bring, you know, beyond I don't know what we are just accustomed to seeing and movies and everything.

There's so much more.

It's like people are getting addicted to junk food.

Not realizing it's junk food when there's a mechan star meal waiting for them if they just actually knew that was available.

So yeah, well, it's all come under the sort of guise of liberation and sort of free love and expression of freedom, I guess, which is part of the problem is, if you want to.

The best.

The best way to.

What's the word?

To enact or to release detrimental concept or ideology into a society would be under the guise of a.

Well, it'd be under the guise of two things, would be one of the guise of pleasure and the other under the guise of compassion.

So if you wanted to.

And if you wanted to enact damage to anyone, you would go through those avenues.

The best because they're the most.

Easily they're the most because they're seen as the highest.

Compassion is justifiably seen as a high virtue.

Pleasure is different, but it's not.

Highest is the wrong terminology, but it's seen as desirable.

So it's very easy to be drawn to.

Our brains are like hardwired for immediate pleasure.

So if you want to push a narrative or a concept, as I said, onto people, you hide it under the.

In the shadow of those two things.

And I think that's what we're seeing.

And yeah, that's a really good way of putting.

Actually the whole Michelin star thing and the whole.

The junk food thing.

I. I like that.

I've never.

It's a good analogy.

Yeah.

So is that one of the things that you speak to people?

I don't really want to talk about that with you, actually.

I think we can go deeper than that.

I don't want to talk about basic relationships, surface level stuff.

I want to talk about more proper, I think more core aspects.

Unless you want to talk about it, in which case we can.

But I've done quite a few podcasts on dating recently, and I don't want to ask people the same questions.

I guess it's a very hot topic at the moment.

But.

Yeah, and a big one.

And it's.

It's all part of it, though.

That's the thing, you know, there's the questions I often getting even in my mentorship programs is it can really be anything.

And often it's the very human experience of dating and the practical stuff that can get in the way.

And people just do not fundamentally understand the differences between women and men and how to embrace them and how to communicate.

And the reason why it's all linked is because we.

We need this deeper understanding of the laws of nature, the fundamental laws that govern this reality.

We need that depth.

We also need something like meditation.

What are those laws?

I mean, yeah, me.

I mean, we could do a whole podcast on just that.

But put it simply, Vedic philosophy.

There's.

This is.

This is one of them.

Okay, so there's three fundamental forces of energy that govern this universe.

Creation, maintenance and destruction.

So creation is Brahma maintenance, Vishnu and destruction.

Shiva.

And these two forces, Shiva.

And yes, Shiva is also synonymous with a Hindu deity and or tantric deity.

So he.

Shiva is the great destroyer, but the remover of irrelevancy.

So when you learn about these forces and how they.

Well, not chaos, not chaos, not in the yin yang.

Chaos.

She's not that.

The force.

She's not the feminine.

The force that revitalizes, destroys what is not worthy.

Danger, but also progression.

Yes, there's also that sounding more like Kali to me.

Okay, okay.

Kali.

She was on a podcast.

What a legend.

Check her out.

Oh, Kali is a Hindu deity.

And I had someone on the podcast who called herself Kate Carly.

And I remember now she said it was named after some.

She named herself after some person and obviously I'm guessing that's who it is.

Anyway, sorry, carry on.

Oh, okay.

Well that, I mean, that's awesome.

I mean, Kali's a real force.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, she was a real force.

Shiva is a masculine, A masculine energy.

Okay.

Yeah, actually.

And you know, just with great respect, you know, the interpretation to Shiva.

Shiva is greatly revered and worshiped in India.

Shiva is the energy that we can see which is stripping away what is no longer relevant, which is the force of destruction, which makes way for creation.

And it's very necessary, Very necessary.

So there is no, you know, and, and when it really comes down to it, at the most basic fundamental level, the laws of reality, there is no good and bad, right and wrong, you know, this and that.

It's all part of the one thing.

And there are energies moving within itself.

So you know, we, we destroy what's no longer relevant to make way for something new.

And then what's relevant will staying through the force of maintenance.

Once we understand how these laws work, we can see them in our lives, we can see them in our friends lives.

We can see them throughout the world.

We can see structures dismantling to make way for.

For new paradigms.

We can see if we've been in a relationship a little bit too long and it's a bit whatever and it's a bit in maintenance and you're like roommates and there's no creative energy being injected into that relationship.

Well, pretty soon it's going to.

Going to destruction, isn't it?

That was the.

I like the idea of the idea of what sustainable remains or what.

What sustained something was sustained.

The.

That's quite a common theme across the concept of gods.

Isn't it like the.

So the Greek mythology, Kronos was overthrown by the three big gods and they tore him to pieces and they made the world out of him, which is like what we do conceptually and metaphorically.

When we encounter something we're afraid of, that we try and tackle, we destroy, we break it to pieces and then we use it to fortify ourselves, I guess spiritually and metaphorically.

And the same with the, the, the ancient Mesopotamian gods or that whole.

The story of Mesopotamia.

They, Their process of.

Process process, process of refining their ultimate God was that of purification.

And I think the idea was that gods would, multiple gods would, what would you say?

Tribes would come together and they would have their own gods and then they would extract the key elements out of said gods to create like a hyper God.

And they just repeated that process over and over and over again until they got to basically an archetype of their ultimate God.

And that was the embodiment of all the most, the best bits of each tribe, each, whatever you want to call them, God, prior God.

And that was their thing.

So there's obviously the idea of refinement and purification.

That's a good word that I used.

That's a relevant word, is true.

And it's at least in this context.

So do you think that that is what people do in life?

They build themselves out of.

I don't know, they build themselves out of the structures that once, like you could put, you could say a limiting belief is like a God that we worship and we build up, we, we rebuild ourselves out of the ashes or the embers of that limiting belief once it's been broken down.

Is that load of bollocks or do you think there's something to that?

Oh, I mean, I love these analogies and.

Okay, good.

It's.

I mean, there's so many different ways to look at this, right.

That there are, you know, as said, you know, we inherit these programs and structures, you know, from our primary caregivers, from society, from, you know, all of these impressions we get.

And it is up to us to break that down and rewire those parts of ourself and continue to transform and continue to die to ourselves to create a new version.

So there's so many metaphors.

I mean, there's the Phoenix Method metaphor, you know, there's so many parts of these stories that have been around for a long time that are about this process of radical self responsibility and transformation.

And that is really the path.

And this is what, you know, forget, you know, the spiritual path and this and that.

This is about being human.

To be human is a spiritual experience.

Spiritual beings having a human experience.

Do you.

I'm so sorry.

I think someone's at my door.

Do you mind if we just.

Yeah, yeah, no worries.

Sorry about that.

That's all right.

How do I pause?

Okay, I'll just, just, just leave it and it'll be fine.

I'll be right back.

Yeah, no worries.

Don't worry about it.

All good.

We get upside.

No worries.

All good.

All right.

Don't worry about it.

Where were we?

We were talking about.

I just finished talking about the gods and then I was talking about limited beliefs and you were saying how we do build ourselves out of the fragments of things.

I think that was.

That was kind of the point.

We could do a different question if you want.

We can talk.

Anything.

If the postman's distracted you.

No, we're good.

Okay.

Yeah, you go.

Sorry.

Yeah.

So I think where we left off was.

I was saying how this process of transformation and radical self responsibility and self awareness is basically just fundamental to us living life.

We can't.

We can't get out of this game.

We can't play this game without having some sort of challenge or thing on our path to force us to change or evolve in some way.

The fundamental law of this reality is evolve.

That's it.

Evolution's all that's ever happening.

We can't just sort of cruise through life.

You talk to any person, everybody, every single person has challenges and things that are designed to help them grow.

Lucian is the fundamental law of the unit of this universe.

I like it.

That's powerful.

Cassie2k25 Ladies and gentlemen, when did you start getting into this?

Sort of.

Have you.

Is this always been a common theme throughout your life?

Can you look back at your childhood and go, oh, yeah, I was always a bit of a deep thinker.

I was always interested in this sort of stuff.

Or did this.

Did you have one of these epiphanies where you got out of the modeling game and thought, I've been worshiping a false idol or I've been hanging around the wrong sorts of people, and now I'm going to go 180 and go down this path?

What is your story?

What's the story?

Okay, so what's the story?

As a child, I definitely was infinitely curious and intuitive and felt like I was tapping into other things, other realms.

That should say, like most children, by the way, they're so awakened to reality without all of these filters and all this garbage.

That we're programmed with.

I remember that experience very well.

But I went on to.

After I graduated university, I continued with my modeling career.

But then I ended up doing that full time for over a decade and worked all over the world and was had a lot of fun.

It was great.

I loved it.

And throughout that time I actually had my awakening through learning to meditate.

So I learned actually yeah.

And a lot of people were drawn to meditation for things like stress and anxiety at the time I definitely had stress and anxiety and also I was seeking just some other way that I felt like there was another way to be looking at it and what could I try?

And I found Vedic meditation was the technique that I learned and I absolutely love Vedic meditation.

Vedic, I haven't heard of that one.

Vedic, yeah.

It's such a profound technique.

It has changed so many lives.

It changed my life.

It's the best thing I ever did.

I still say that to this day.

So if you're listening to this, look it up.

You won't regret it.

You're welcome.

So I learned that and after that I just began to be much less stressed.

Sleep better, have more energy.

I was more creative, I was more productive.

And I started to awaken to greater self awareness and more curiosity about life and the spiritual path.

And then I just went on this deep dive, just pedal to the metal and then trying everything on the menu.

I mean the weirdest, wackiest things.

Like I tried everything.

I mean I really went on this journey.

I trained as a reiki healer.

I that's when I learned to trained as a psych facilitator.

I studied the Veda and learned all these techniques.

I had a teacher that was a shaman and I learned all about shamanism and I mean it was beautiful and I learned so much.

But after that kind of spiritual shopping era I really landed on the Veda which is the this you know, body of knowledge that is the source of all yoga meditation.

Ayurveda from ancient India, but it's timeless again, it's universal.

That really became what resonated with me.

And then, oh from there just my whole life, my whole life just completely shifted.

Navigated my way out of toxic relationship into a.

A beautiful and healthy one.

You know, had career change, just everything got better.

Could you break down what that type of.

What type of meditation that is?

What does that involve?

So Vedic meditation is a technique that you need to be initiated into with a teacher in person, one on one.

And it's from various origins are in India and it's A technique which is very simple and subtle, and absolutely anyone can practice it, particularly people that have busy minds and don't struggle with sitting with a guided meditation or just sitting, doing nothing.

This is not that.

This goes far beyond that.

It transcends the mind and allows the mind and body to relax and release profound amounts of stress from the system.

And basically, the less stress we have in our nervous system, the better human beings we can be.

More powerful we are, the less reactive we are, because essentially we all have that capacity, but we're just layered on with stress and trauma, limiting beliefs, and all this just garbage that prevents us from actually being these powerful, capable, compassionate human beings.

So I was just Googling what Vedic meditation is, and I'm trained in something called Transcendental Meditation, which is basically an offshoot of Vedic Meditations.

Just because, as you were saying, I was like, oh, that sounds a bit like Transcendental Meditation.

Yeah, I agree.

It's really, really good.

In fact, the guy that I.

That initiated me, I want to get on the podcast.

I need to email him, actually, because that would be quite an interesting episode.

So, yeah, definitely.

Meditation is phenomenal.

Do you.

Are you, like.

Are you religious with it?

How often are you supposed to do it?

How often do you do it?

So.

So maybe I'm an anomaly, but I simply love it.

And so I haven't missed.

I actually have not missed a single meditation twice a day for over 10 years.

That's crazy.

But I just love it.

Like, I can't imagine not doing it.

That's.

That's not a chore for me, you know?

Do you just find some days where you just can't do it whatsoever and it's actually quite agonizing by day?

No.

Oh, you've obviously got.

You do sound like.

You do seem like you have a very calm disposition, though, don't you?

You're very consistent.

But here's the thing, I think, look, everyone's got to find their thing.

Like, everyone has to find their path, their daily practice.

I don't believe in one size fits all.

I don't believe in telling people what to do.

For me, I'm just so grateful that this is my thing, this is my path, and I love that.

But this.

There also is a certain degree of discipline, devotion quite required for anything that we do.

I've also been told that with my personality, I kind of just do things.

I don't really have a problem with sticking to habits.

It's not.

It's not punishing for me, but everybody's different.

So if you're one of those people that really struggles to stick to routines and habits, I would just encourage you to do like give yourself a challenge, 30 straight days of practice and then just give your brain enough data to recognize why it's probably a good idea to keep going.

And then usually that helps.

See, I often find that I do it more when I'm struggling and when I'm not struggling, I don't need to do it as much.

Which is ironic because it's like, well, maybe that's what helps you not struggle so much.

So you should maintain that when you are feeling better, it's like, are you?

Are you.

You mentioned earlier about coming out of a toxic relationship with which, yes, there was a meditation, it was there that sort of helped you release and let go and meant things that aligned themselves and manifested themselves, for lack of a better term, in your life.

And that is.

This is a part of that.

Would that be correct?

Absolutely.

So from my experience and this, and this came with staying yet consistent with the practice and as a catalyst for everything else.

So it's not that I learned to meditate and then all of a sudden that's magic, you know.

You know, just happened like that.

That's the catalyst to awaken my wisdom and power and intuition.

All these, these qualities which then would lead me to know what to do next.

So then I would seek out information, I would develop myself in other ways and begin to cultivate a degree of self worth that made certain situations and relationships no longer in alignment with who I'd become.

So that was a gradual process.

And I think, you know, ultimately I'm grateful for any challenges and difficulties I have had in relationships because I've learned an incredible amount about it.

I've also learned how I was a participant in allowing and creating these dynamics myself.

So actually shift me into a very empowered state where I didn't see myself as a victim in any situation or relationship, but rather a contributor or co.

Creator or someone that was allowing it.

Allowing it.

And so that leading, all the work that I did led me to a place where actually what I was attracted to and what I wanted in a relationship became so incredibly different that naturally the relationship I was in fell away.

And you know, and that was it.

And then I found myself in this relationship which was of a much higher grade in a.

In a conscious relating dynamic with somebody who I deeply love and deeply trust and who deeply loves and trusts me.

And we're able to explore what's possible in a relationship where you can, you know, be Deeply in love and support each other and everything, but just have this deeper connection beyond just the surface level.

I think a lot of people are craving this.

I think a lot of people can, can resonate with, yes, the Michelin Star meal.

So it's just like anything.

Do we want to just be living life on the surface and do we want to accept an okay, ish relationship that isn't great, but oh, well, or do we want to open ourselves to the possibility that our relationships can be the most rewarding, expansive, transformative incubators for growth that we could imagine?

And yeah, I feel really fortunate that now I can say that I'm actually experiencing a relationship like that.

But it wasn't, it wasn't because of all the work that I had to do to unpick all these patterns and rewrite these programs, get really intentional, really clear about who I was going to be in a relationship and what I was going to give to it in order to deserve a partner that was on that level and attract a partner on that level.

There's something about having a small redeemable quality that women look for in men and, and if they see that, they're able to omit and disregard any of the negatives.

Do you kind of understand what I mean is that, can you relate to that?

I mean, this is the biggest mistake that a woman can make in a relationship.

Yes, in my opinion, it's very common, isn't it?

Very.

It's very common for the feminines.

Essentially, an oracle, she can see the best in her man.

She can see the highest version of him.

She can see the potential.

And that is a blessing and a curse.

Because the problem with this is that in my experience, and you let me know, because I'm not a man, I can't actually speak to this, but from observation, a man is who he is, and that's what you're going to get.

What you see is what you get.

So.

So I think that actually the tendency for women to want to fix and change and manage and treat a man as a project or somebody that needs to change, need to be fixed, is a no sum game.

Because the woman, you know, that's really, that's a control thing, actually.

Like you're trying to take someone and go, you're kind of all right, but let me just change you on the man's side.

You know, he's, he's probably, probably not going to.

He's going to change on his own terms, in his own time, if that's on his path.

Right.

So what I encourage women to do is actually be a bit more realistic and stop waiting for change that's never going to come.

Simply choose a man that you already admire and respect and you already love just as he is and he's going to feel that and feel so seen, so appreciated.

That already sets up a beautiful dynamic not of controlling each other, but actually just appreciating and supporting each other.

And we're all going to have.

We're human beings.

We're all going to have flaws and little things.

But if you're going and choosing someone that is so far off what you need them to be, maybe just ask yourself, why do I keep choosing this person?

Do I ever need to rescue and save people?

Why don't I actually what is attracting me to this?

And that's really where the harsh reality and real work is.

You go, why am I tolerating this?

You know.

I think there's the whole rescue.

I don't, I don't think rescue is the right terminology.

I think, I don't know.

I think it's more.

I think it's seduce, but not just in a.

It's seduce and coerced in a. Seduce and control.

I think that's the.

It's more that than I think rest.

The idea of rescuing is more of a masculine thing.

I think the masculine wants to rescue the feminine, but I don't think the feminine wants to rescue the masculine.

The feminine wants to tame the masculine.

It wants to control and almost manipulate, but not necessarily in a.

In a malicious way, but it.

Manipulate in the sense that we say someone manipulates like a football or in sport.

You could say someone manipulated the ball.

Well, or they manipulated something like that.

That's not a malicious way of putting it.

It's just a way of moving it.

I don't know what the correct word would be.

Manipulation is the best word actually.

But I could be wrong.

Maybe there is an element of save.

I mean, yeah, I'm sure in maybe hyper compassionate women there's an element of saving.

But I don't know.

It's interesting maybe.

Yeah, it can be on either side, but yeah, that's right.

I mean the feminine's tendency is to, is to.

If people.

He's not meeting her ideals to try and change him into being the man she can see, you know, the potential.

Right.

But it's not about who's better and everything.

It's about actually compatibility.

It's actually about choosing someone that.

What does that mean?

That's a hard question.

Without choosing.

I mean.

Yeah, because It's a long answer.

A little bit, yeah.

And again, we have all these things at play and that's why it's so complex, because.

Because we have.

We don't just have two humans and that's it.

We have all of their childhood programming, all of their limiting beliefs, their stress, their traumas, their.

All the programs that they're running in the background, all of their previous experiences.

They're bringing both people, are bringing that into the relationship.

So some people are still trapped in dynamics that they're unconscious of.

So they will be really attracted to someone that's really bad for them or like a bad match or an unhealthy dynamic.

But that's because they.

I trained to recreate that dynamic to heal stuff from the past that they haven't dealt with, even from childhood.

Whereas if you've done as you're self aware and you've done a lot of that work already, then someone who's compatible with you would look like someone that you have shared values with that you feel, you know, safe with.

You have great trust, communication, loyalty, respect, all the basics have got to be there, but also somebody that you feel aligned with.

Like, you don't have to always share the same interests or be the same people.

Sometimes some opposite qualities are great and you can really balance each other out.

You need, you don't need too much sameness, you need more polarity.

You need, yeah, you know, some chemistry between you, but you need to be ultimately compatible when it comes to your core fundamental principles and values.

Yeah, how you want to.

It's almost like just as you were thinking as you were talking chemistry, use the term polarity in chemistry.

You need the almost.

The chords of the two of you need to be the same or they need to be in the same key going musical, because that's all what just my brain's taking me to.

But the melody you can have, like you can be a melody and they can be a counter melody, but they complement one another well.

But fundamentally the key has to be the same so that the base of you as a combined entity works, I guess, for lack of a better term, that it's not off key and it's.

In other words, it's discordant or conflicting or contradicting.

But you need a little bit of that because that's what you said, that's where this.

That's what the chemistry comes from.

But too much and it's.

There's nothing.

And then if you're identical, then a relationship becomes stagnant and boring because there's not, there's no friction, there's no like rubbing up against each other metaphorically.

So it's just.

Blah.

Could that, does that make sense to you?

Yeah, exactly.

You, you can't have.

It's a, it's an interesting thing.

So it's.

What I think is that you need to have the core stuff down pat.

So values, principles, that type of thing.

But then you can be as different as you like because that brings.

Exactly.

Contrast is what we're needing.

We're needing polarity.

We need the masculine and feminine to be dancing and to be on opposite poles and attracted to each other.

You need to have this attraction.

Because if you don't have magnetism and attraction, you're not into each other like that, then you're your friends, you know, I'm sorry, but like, that's the difference between, say a romantic relationship, a sexual intimate partnership is there's the friendship part which is incredibly important, but we actually need to have that.

I think there's a lot of people out there that are like confusing.

There's safety, which is the core feminine need for safety.

That means her man says what he's going to do he to her, he will protect her, all these things, she's emotionally safe within.

That stuff's key.

But when people confuse safety with like boring or no chemistry or safeness, it's like that to me feels lifeless and stale.

Like there's, there's love, but then there's also attraction as well.

And those two things need to coexist.

Actually, the ancient Greeks knew a lot more about this than we do.

So they had eight different types of love.

I don't know if you've heard about this, but we have one word for love.

They had eight different types of love, which makes a lot more sense.

So for example, they have Eros, which is romantic love.

This is the love that we're talking about right now.

This is, this is what everybody wants to experience in a romantic partnership.

But then we have Philia, which is a friendship type of love.

And for relationships to sustain, you need multiple types of love to be present.

But if you don't have Eros, it's, you know, this is just this life force that is sustaining your connection and keeping the relationship alive.

Yeah, I feel like we're sort of creating a generation of women that in their younger years lean towards one polarity and then they reach a certain age and they just flip flop to the exact opposite polarity.

And I think that the later they make that realization, the more desperate that flip Flop can become.

Because the more.

And then the earlier, the more gradual and the more nuanced they can navigate that change from one to the other.

The.

Because as you've sort of alluded to and as I've heard from many, many, many people, women that I've spoken to, that process of sort of healing and progression.

And in fact, I used the term which I think is.

I didn't.

I said to this girl.

Not girl, this lady, the other woman.

The other day, she was talking about healing a lot.

And I said, yeah, healing, maybe, but I think it's more about integration.

I think it's more about integrating the.

The toxic aspects of the feminine into you so that you can perceive the toxic aspects of the masculine externally and not be drawn to them more.

More.

Not be drawn to them anymore.

Instead be aware of them and understand their use and.

But then understand what it is to look for.

But I feel like that progression is taking longer and longer and longer for women to go through now.

And it can be a more extreme switch at a later stage.

And it's a process of maturation and integration rather than healing.

And there.

I'm sure there is an element of that, but it's like.

Yes, but there's another aspect of it.

That's my theory.

I feel like, because our society doesn't promote as we, you know, going back to the beginning or, you know, a bit into the conversation, society does promote that concept of Michelin star, which is a great term.

I'm going to use that now, Michelin star style, love and into fully integrated and aware love.

And eros, I guess.

Eros, attachment, maybe you could use the term.

Doesn't promote that anymore.

It's not trendy, it's not popular, and it's just falling out of favor.

Even though it's actually not falling out of favor, it's actually growing back in favor now.

But there's a lot of.

I don't know what you'd use it.

Propaganda is not the right.

Potentially not the right term.

There's a lot of pulling away from that, even though internally there's a lot of yearning for it.

Do you agree with that?

People.

People.

Ultimately, deep, deep down.

Some people very deep down, but searching.

Ultimately they're searching for that.

Some people just don't know it exists.

Some people.

I think most people are.

Which I think all people are, though.

Yeah, every.

Every person is yearning for that.

But.

But we're all looking for it in different.

In different places.

And ultimately there are the same people that.

Let's just give an example, same people that are looking for very overtly transactional relationships.

Say a situation where there's, you know, a wealthy older man and, and a young woman that isn't particularly interested in this man but would just like to benefit financially and be taken care of.

Well, there's a lot of dynamics at play here.

There's a scale, right?

So she's essentially, you know, on the scale scale somewhere at the highest expression of that is just the feminine wanting to feel safe and provided for and taken care of.

The lowest expression manifests.

And overtly or covertly transactional relationships, which are surface level, they lack depth and true love and connection, ultimately everyone is deep down seeking the highest expression of that.

But because we are loaded on with the garbage, the limiting beliefs and the traumas and stress and all these survival strategies we've developed to cope with things, we're kind of like thinking it's it.

But not all that glitters is gold with.

We're mistaking these relationships for this is just normal or whatever, because some people don't really know what is possible and think that's probably not going to happen.

You know, there's a lot of things being repeated.

You said propaganda.

There's a lot of stories we tell ourselves, like there are no good women out there.

There are no good men out there.

You know, all women are like this.

Women are like this.

And we can't, you know, can't trust each other.

And all these things, all these stories we tell ourselves that are in these echo chambers and social media, it's all just junk.

Like we should be very discerning about what we're actually letting in, who we're listening to and what we're listening to.