Shownotes
Tune in to this episode for a refreshing perspective on the art of communication, as we delve into the profound insights shared by Joe Keohane on the transformative power of engaging with strangers. In a world often dominated by digital communication, Joe takes us on a journey to discover the untapped potential and unexpected benefits that arise when we step out of our comfort zones and initiate conversations with unfamiliar faces.
In this episode we:
- Explore the science and psychology behind human connection
- Discover practical tips on breaking the ice and initiating meaningful conversations
- Uncover the surprising ways talking to strangers can enhance our well being
Don't miss out on this thought-provoking conversation with Joe Keohane!
Drink of the week….Danger Stranger
CLICK TO DOWNLOAD CHAPTER ONE AUDIO FREE
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Julie Brown:
Joe Keohane
Transcripts
The concept of teaching children about stranger danger is deeply ingrained
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in our societal approach to safety.
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From a young age, kids are often
taught to be wary of unfamiliar
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individuals as a means of protecting
themselves from potential harm.
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While this message aims to instill a
sense of caution, it can inadvertently
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foster a persistent fear of the unknown.
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well into adulthood.
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As adults, the lingering effects of
this childhood lesson can hinder our
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ability to comfortably engage with new
people and embrace new experiences.
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Welcome to episode 189 of This Shit
Works, a podcast dedicated to all
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things networking, relationship
building, and business development.
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I'm your host, Julie Brown, speaker,
author, and networking coach.
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And today I am joined by Joe
Cohane, author of The Power
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of Strangers, The Benefits of
Connecting in a Suspicious World.
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It's remarkable to consider that
many of the individuals who now
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hold significant places in our
hearts were once complete strangers.
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It's a testament to the transformative
power of relationships, reminding us
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that the most meaningful bonds often
emerge from unexpected intersections,
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which is why I am so excited to have
Joe here to talk about how we can learn
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to create more of these intersections
by connecting with strangers.
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Joe, welcome to the podcast.
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Joe: Thanks, Julie.
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Thanks for having me.
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Julie: Yeah, I'm super excited.
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Let's dive right in.
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So your book delves into the
idea that connecting with
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strangers can be a transformative
experience, I wholeheartedly agree.
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Uh, what inspired you
to explore this topic?
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Yeah.
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Joe: family of funeral directors actually
in Boston, and as I grew up, I watched
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them in the way they were socially.
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And basically, they just talk
to everybody all the time.
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They were super social.
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My parents would do things like reach
across two tables in a restaurant to make
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an observation about something someone was
eating or wearing or whatever, but they
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were so adept at it that they were able
to do it without freaking people out.
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And as a kid holidays, there
would be like strangers.
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Over for the 4th of July, someone
they met at Dunkin Donuts, or someone
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they met on a trip, or whatever, they
were constantly accumulating friends.
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And it was never mortifying to me, I
know it's often horrifying, for kids
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when their parents talk to strangers, you
know, mine definitely looks at me funny
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at age 7 when I just chat with people.
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Um, but it seemed like a really natural
and a really healthy way to live and I
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got to see the benefits of it, right?
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Just in the sense of this constant,
stream of new people entering their
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lives and new friendships and all that.
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So, I went into journalism when I was
younger and that also is, you know, you're
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practicing the art of talking to strangers
when you're working in journalism because
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you have to connect with people quickly
and you have to be curious and all that.
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You gotta be quick on your feet.
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Um, but a few years ago, I noticed
that, while some of my most
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formative experiences in my life
came from talking to strangers,
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that I had sort of stopped doing it.
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I was going to bars and I was
like looking at my phone, which
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is an appalling thing to do.
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I would go to CVS and I would go to
the self checkout line and avoid,
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interacting with the cashier.
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And I noticed it one day that I had
sort of pulled back a little bit.
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And I missed the serendipity that I used
to get from just chatting with people
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because if you talk to strangers, you
know, obviously in a safe venue, but if
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you do it the right way, you'll always
be surprised at the hidden depths
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and complexities and idiosyncrasies
and all this stuff that people have.
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So I just started digging in a little
bit and trying to figure out why I had
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pulled back and, more to the point,
the benefits, what the benefits are.
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Um, and from my perspective, a
lot of it was the phone, right?
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Because when you have a phone and you're
of a certain privileged class, you
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can go the rest of your life without
ever talking to a stranger again.
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Right?
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Like, it just removes you from the public.
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And it's really efficient
and, in many ways I like it.
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Um, but it takes you out of the game.
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Takes you out of, kind
of concrete reality a lot.
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Very easily.
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And the other thing is we had a baby and
I was just tired, so I wasn't hanging
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out as much when I was, I was, tired
and just couldn't much couldn't like
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marshal the energy to initiate these
conversations that when I was younger
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came, you know, fairly easy to me.
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So that, that led me down a
million different rabbit holes
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of research, um, looking into.
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You know, why we, why we don't talk
to strangers, when will we, and
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how can we get good at it, what
the long term benefits are for.
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Julie: I have a couple
follow up questions.
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You mentioned that your, you came
from a family of funeral directors.
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Do you think that being around
people all of the time who had
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lost people made your family more?
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just see the value in building
relationships and the people
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around you because they were
constantly around somebody's loss.
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Joe: I mean, I think that
it gives you a sense.
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I worked in the business for a while too.
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Um, it gives you a sense that the
clock is ticking for one thing, right?
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So you don't really take life for granted
when you're surrounded by death a lot.
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I think in the case of my family,
it made everyone very funny.
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And, um, I don't know if you've
had, like, experience with funeral
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directors, but they're really funny
people in the same way that cops
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are often really funny people and ER
nurses are often really funny people.
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People who work in really extreme
situations tend to develop a really
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good sense of humor to cope with the
darkness of what they're seeing every day.
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So they certainly had that, but I mean,
I think You know, to the point here,
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when you work in that business, reality
avoidance is not, an option, right?
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Like, you are in it every day.
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It's a very social business.
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You're interacting face to
face with people every day.
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There's no working from home
when you're a funeral director.
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Like, you are in the
company of other people.
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You're in the company of many different
types of people from many different
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backgrounds, many different persuasions,
and you have to connect with them in
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order to serve them in the way that,
you know, they expect and they deserve.
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, so I think that made everybody pretty
deft, um, socially, and I think that
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helped, probably helped a lot too.
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Julie: So another thing you said
in that first answer was talking
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about talking to strangers, talking
to people at the checkout or
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in the coffee shop or whatever.
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And you said you can have
really good conversations if
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you do it in the right way.
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What did you mean by do it in the
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Joe: Yeah, so this is a big part of the
book where I set out to, to basically
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rebuild myself as a very social person.
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Um, and in order to do that,
I wanted to start from zero.
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I wanted the book to be useful to
someone who didn't have a background
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in this, who might have been, you know,
intensely socially, anxious, who might
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be shy, might be more introverted and
just explain how these interactions
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work on like a molecular level, right?
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All the moving parts of these
interactions, and there are a lot.
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, but also the skills that you can build
in order to get better at it and get
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more comfortable at, and obviously
the big thing is going to be safety.
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So, do it in a place where there
are people around, um, you know, I'm
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very well aware of the advantage I
have is like a six foot tall white
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guy, , in the realm of personal safety.
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But for people who might feel less
safe generally, to find the right
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place to do it, interestingly, a
lot of the people I spoke to, to.
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Gather tips on how to do this.
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Well, identified as introverts
and most of them were women,
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which is interesting to me.
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So I would ask them how they do
it, how they can practice this and
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still feel safe at the same time.
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And they would generally just
say, don't do it in bars, right?
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Because your intention is going to be
misunderstood, but do it, you know,
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in broad daylight when there are
people around, when you can feel more
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comfortable doing it, you're not doing it.
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When you're all alone in a
darkened place, you know?
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Um, but once you find the places
that are gonna be, that you're gonna
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feel safe doing it, it's a question
of just noticing and listening.
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Ironically, the key to talking to
strangers is to not talk to strangers.
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It's to listen to what they're
saying and to notice things.
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So, if you're in, you're both
experiencing the same thing at the same
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time, making an observation about it.
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If there's something about them
that's interesting, respectfully
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ask a question about it.
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And then make it clear that your
intention is not untoward that you're,
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you know, like I like your glasses.
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I'm in the market for
a pair of glasses too.
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Do you mind if I asked
you where I got them?
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, those sorts of things, exercising
those muscles is really important.
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You know, getting back into the
habit of making eye contact is a
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very difficult thing for people.
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So, I took a class with a woman named
Georgie Nightingale in England who
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runs an organization called trigger
conversations and she literally
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teaches classes on talking to
strangers and she's brilliant at it.
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She basically starts from zero.
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So, to get people comfortable to talk to
strangers doesn't mean go into a Starbucks
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and initiate an intense philosophical
conversation with the barista.
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It means you have to start easy.
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You have to get used to like the building
blocks as you go, the fundamental skills.
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So that would be eye contact.
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And so what Georgie taught.
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Was just get used to making eye
contact, and again, like not leering
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at people are glaring at people, right?
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Like under, you know, be aware of
yourself, but when you're walking
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down the street, make eye contact
with somebody and just see how it
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feels to you and see how it goes.
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When you're buying something at a store,
make eye contact with the cashier.
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You'd be shocked how.
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How rare it is that people actually do
this, and then see how they respond and
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kind of monitor your reaction to it.
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And then you can build from there.
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You can say good morning to someone when
you walk by them on the sidewalk, make
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a little eye contact, say good morning,
and then just watch how they respond.
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And you get more comfortable with it
and, by and large, you're pleasantly
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surprised by people's response.
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Um, and then there is, some
great tips that Georgie had.
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Like, say you are in
the supermarket, right?
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And you get to the cash register,
and the person at the cash
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register says, how you doing?
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You know, everybody does the same thing.
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Everyone follows a script.
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Fine, how are you?
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Right?
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You don't put any thought into it.
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You're not actually listening.
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You're not engaged.
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They don't really care.
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It's just, you know, this is something
that humans invented because it
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would be weird to not say anything.
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Though often, often they also not say,
they don't say anything to each other.
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But when you're in a situation like
that, and someone asks you a question
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Um, actually answer the question.
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Um, so if someone says,
how are you doing today?
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You can actually answer that.
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So you don't want to go on and
on about how, like, there's a
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thing growing on your neck or,
you know, don't get weird with it.
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Yeah, but you can, you
can actually answer it.
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And a really, a really cool trick
that Georgie came up with was.
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Um, give a numerical answer.
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So if someone says, how you doing today?
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You can just be like,
you know, six out of 10.
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How are you?
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And it's amazing what that does
when you, when you respond that
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way in these situations, people
will actually light up because now
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something different is happening.
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Like you're actually engaged, you're
actually paying attention and you've
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also created a frame that allows them
to respond in a comfortable way too.
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And what generally happens when
you do that, you say, how are you?
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And they'll give you a
numerical answer back.
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And now you're like, you know, you
have a little, you're playing a little
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game here and then you can, you know,
Georgie will say, well, if you're
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a 7 out of 10, what would it take
to make you an 8 out of 10 today?
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And then maybe someone tells you
a little bit about their life.
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Like these things don't
have to take a long time.
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They can just take the amount of time
it takes to buy something in a store.
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but it's remarkable what people will
tell you and like the possibilities
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for these little connections.
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Um, and sometimes they're really funny
and sometimes they're poignant, you
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know, like a thing that I started doing.
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Particularly after the pandemic,
was, I would ask people if, um, like
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people in service positions, um, if
people are behaving themselves today.
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So if you're in like a Dunkin Donuts and
you say, you know, how are you doing?
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They'll be like, fine.
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And then you say people behaving
themselves today and the stories you
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get are harrowing and hilarious, but
you know, it's, it's good for you
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because you're getting a little bit of
connection, but it's good for them because
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someone is actually empathizing with.
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With a very difficult job, which is
working in service post pandemic.
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Like people just get
beaten on, on those jobs.
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But anyways, I suggested people do that.
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And then my oldest friend went to a Dunkin
Donuts in Massachusetts and asked the
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clerk if people were behaving themselves
today and she just started crying and so
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he called me and he was like, you made
me make a woman cry at Dunkin Donuts.
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Um.
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Julie: You didn't make, that person
didn't make them cry, but everybody
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Joe: I know that's what I
was trying to explain to him.
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I know exactly.
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But, um, but those, you know, it's
like, you don't, you don't, don't get
243
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ambitious with it right out of the gate.
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Just go for these little, you
want a little exchange, right?
245
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Like you feel comfortable with it.
246
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You learn something, someone feels
seen in, in you feel that you have
247
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a little connection with someone.
248
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Um, you know, I had to go
back to the supermarket.
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I remember.
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buying groceries one morning and there
was like a teenage girl working there and
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she was like, you asked me how I was doing
and I was like, honestly, I'm beat today.
252
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My kid kept us up all night last night.
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We're exhausted.
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And she goes, how old is she?
255
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I was like, she's three and she
goes, I have a little sister too.
256
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It gets better.
257
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And this is like a teenager, you know,
and now what could have that, that,
258
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that interaction could have just been me
not saying anything and her not saying
259
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anything, but instead it ended up being
like a little connection and I got to
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see a depth of empathy in a teenager and,
and, you know, and we had a little chat.
261
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It was cool.
262
00:13:12,008 --> 00:13:13,858
Um, again, not, it doesn't
have to be profound.
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It just has to be that.
264
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And once you get comfortable with
that sort of level of interaction,
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um, then, you know, and the
situation allows for it, you can't.
266
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Again, you can't launch into like
a deep philosophical conversation
267
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with someone who's busy.
268
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Don't make a nuisance of
yourself, but you learn to
269
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read people a little bit better.
270
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You learn to follow your curiosity.
271
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You get a little quicker on your
feet, learn to navigate these
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very complicated interactions.
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And when you do, there's actually
a growing body of research now, on
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this, the benefits of talking to
strangers, what they call minimal
275
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social interactions, which are small,
little passing interactions with them.
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guy at the gas station, the woman
at the coffee shop, whatever it is.
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This has been led by psychologists,
Nicholas Epley, Juliana
278
00:13:53,273 --> 00:13:55,403
Schroeder, and Jillian Sandstrom.
279
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And they've done a lot of experiments
now, and a lot of this, these findings
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00:13:59,573 --> 00:14:03,933
have been replicated in other countries
by other researchers as well, that find
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that when people talk to strangers,
they come away from the experience
282
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feeling more connected to their
communities, feeling a stronger sense
283
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of belonging, less lonely, more hopeful.
284
00:14:14,843 --> 00:14:18,713
You know, long term effects can be
depolarization, it can be a reduction
285
00:14:18,713 --> 00:14:21,883
of prejudice, all these things that
happen as the result of deeper,
286
00:14:21,883 --> 00:14:24,393
meaningful, competent, connections with
people who are different than we are.
287
00:14:24,743 --> 00:14:28,563
There are tons and tons of benefits
of this and at a time when loneliness
288
00:14:28,563 --> 00:14:32,033
is at epidemic levels and people feel
estranged and they feel angry and they
289
00:14:32,033 --> 00:14:33,548
feel that they're not being listened to.
290
00:14:33,688 --> 00:14:36,238
And they're not really leaving
their houses quite as much
291
00:14:36,238 --> 00:14:37,428
as previous generations.
292
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, these are really important things.
293
00:14:39,188 --> 00:14:41,028
I was reading the other day
that they're talking about using
294
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ketamine to treat loneliness.
295
00:14:43,448 --> 00:14:46,408
Which is, I'm glad that they're figuring
something out because loneliness has
296
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very dire physical, consequences.
297
00:14:49,658 --> 00:14:52,818
But the solution to loneliness, the
cure for loneliness, is just other
298
00:14:52,818 --> 00:14:56,078
people, like, we are surrounded by
potential treatments for loneliness.
299
00:14:56,388 --> 00:15:00,498
, we have just, in many cases, lost the
skills to initiate those connections
300
00:15:00,568 --> 00:15:01,458
and make those friends, you know?
301
00:15:03,148 --> 00:15:03,468
Julie: Yeah.
302
00:15:03,488 --> 00:15:07,068
So you actually answered what was going
to be my next question, which was, so
303
00:15:07,078 --> 00:15:11,138
these, this like six out of 10 thing,
when you, somebody asks, how are you?
304
00:15:11,148 --> 00:15:16,448
We would probably put this under the
umbrella of small talk and people probably
305
00:15:16,448 --> 00:15:19,848
don't think that there's a profound
effect to small talk, but your book
306
00:15:19,848 --> 00:15:24,318
says that there is wellbeing benefits
to these, as you're saying, minimal.
307
00:15:24,663 --> 00:15:27,803
minimal social interactions, this
small talk that we have with strangers.
308
00:15:28,023 --> 00:15:33,243
So if we could do that more every single
day, then it would only lend to the idea
309
00:15:33,243 --> 00:15:35,623
that we'd be, our well being would be
310
00:15:35,858 --> 00:15:36,228
Joe: Sure.
311
00:15:36,228 --> 00:15:36,498
Yeah.
312
00:15:37,228 --> 00:15:40,898
Small talk's funny because it gets
a bad rap, because mainly people
313
00:15:40,898 --> 00:15:42,108
don't understand what it is.
314
00:15:42,558 --> 00:15:46,178
I went pretty deep on the anthropological
research of how like humanity
315
00:15:46,218 --> 00:15:47,648
learned to live among strangers.
316
00:15:47,948 --> 00:15:51,218
And one of the key, innovations
that human societies came up with
317
00:15:51,248 --> 00:15:52,658
were things called greeting rituals.
318
00:15:52,978 --> 00:15:56,798
So there's a thing called, yeah, so one
of the innovations that human society
319
00:15:56,798 --> 00:16:01,378
came up with in order to deal with the
reality of strangers is these greeting
320
00:16:01,378 --> 00:16:06,028
rituals, which were just like ritualized
ways to make a stranger feel safe.
321
00:16:06,248 --> 00:16:11,208
To recognize that we're in the same
space to deal with, sort of the
322
00:16:11,218 --> 00:16:14,138
possibility of threat coming from the
stranger with versus the possibility
323
00:16:14,138 --> 00:16:18,128
of opportunity coming from the stranger
and to reconcile those things into a
324
00:16:18,148 --> 00:16:19,998
structured way that allows us to meet.
325
00:16:20,173 --> 00:16:22,523
other people, meet new people,
work with other people, and
326
00:16:22,523 --> 00:16:23,633
communicate with other people.
327
00:16:23,713 --> 00:16:27,093
Now, in traditional societies,
these are much more elaborate.
328
00:16:27,223 --> 00:16:30,183
They involve, a series of stages
that the stranger has to be brought
329
00:16:30,183 --> 00:16:32,613
across in order to show that they're
not murderous, and they're not
330
00:16:32,643 --> 00:16:34,183
agents of chaos, and all this stuff.
331
00:16:34,643 --> 00:16:37,703
But we have evidence of these
throughout modern society, too.
332
00:16:37,703 --> 00:16:39,353
A handshake is a greeting ritual, right?
333
00:16:39,403 --> 00:16:41,663
a handshake is showing that you
can be, you can make physical
334
00:16:41,663 --> 00:16:43,653
contact with someone, and
they're not going to attack you.
335
00:16:44,213 --> 00:16:46,293
, and Smalltalk is another version of these.
336
00:16:46,998 --> 00:16:52,588
Where, the functional, the function of
small talk is not to be the conversation.
337
00:16:52,748 --> 00:16:55,638
And that's why people hate small
talk so much is that you get stuck in
338
00:16:55,638 --> 00:16:58,898
small talk and you can't get out of
it and it's boring and it's miserable
339
00:16:58,898 --> 00:16:59,908
and, it makes you want to leave.
340
00:17:00,498 --> 00:17:02,948
What it really is, is that
it's a greeting ritual.
341
00:17:02,948 --> 00:17:06,328
It's a way of establishing that
you're in the same space, that you can
342
00:17:06,328 --> 00:17:10,048
safely talk to each other, that you're
experiencing the same reality, right?
343
00:17:10,048 --> 00:17:11,108
That you're not chaotic.
344
00:17:11,258 --> 00:17:14,268
It's a way to, normalize yourself
in the presence of another person.
345
00:17:14,647 --> 00:17:17,978
And then once you do that, once you
connect with the person, once you've
346
00:17:17,978 --> 00:17:22,167
established, that you can talk safely,
then you can move on to something else.
347
00:17:22,417 --> 00:17:24,637
Now, if you're at a cocktail
party, like, what do you do?
348
00:17:24,647 --> 00:17:25,657
That question, right?
349
00:17:25,893 --> 00:17:26,883
That's a bonding ritual.
350
00:17:26,883 --> 00:17:28,793
It's a way of like, can
I talk to this person?
351
00:17:28,793 --> 00:17:30,203
Do I feel comfortable with this person?
352
00:17:30,663 --> 00:17:34,613
But if you get stuck in what do you do
conversations forever, it's like death.
353
00:17:34,753 --> 00:17:35,443
It's the worst.
354
00:17:35,803 --> 00:17:38,693
So basically it's just, it's the
beginning of the conversation.
355
00:17:38,803 --> 00:17:42,993
And, from there, once you
feel that you can talk, then
356
00:17:42,993 --> 00:17:44,123
it's a question of listening.
357
00:17:44,443 --> 00:17:47,533
It's a question of asking good open
ended questions like who, what,
358
00:17:47,553 --> 00:17:50,293
where, when it's a matter of not.
359
00:17:50,573 --> 00:17:53,503
Um, just steering the conversation
into something that you're personally
360
00:17:53,503 --> 00:17:56,163
interested in or do the thing
everyone does, which is like,
361
00:17:56,203 --> 00:17:57,623
how can I get this back to me?
362
00:17:58,043 --> 00:17:59,173
, it's like travel, right?
363
00:17:59,173 --> 00:18:01,573
So when you're really talking to somebody
you've never met before, it gives you the
364
00:18:01,573 --> 00:18:03,443
opportunity to explore their experiences.
365
00:18:03,983 --> 00:18:06,273
And the only way you can do that
is being, having an open mind.
366
00:18:06,293 --> 00:18:09,813
So when they say, this is what
I do for work, you don't just
367
00:18:09,813 --> 00:18:10,673
say, oh, that's interesting.
368
00:18:10,673 --> 00:18:13,073
Here's what I do for work, because
that's what kills the conversation.
369
00:18:13,443 --> 00:18:15,053
You ask questions about that.
370
00:18:15,063 --> 00:18:16,163
How did you end up doing that?
371
00:18:16,213 --> 00:18:16,913
Do you like doing it?
372
00:18:17,103 --> 00:18:18,793
If you could do anything,
would you do that?
373
00:18:18,803 --> 00:18:19,543
Would you do something else?
374
00:18:19,783 --> 00:18:22,513
Julie: I always ask, is that what
you wanted to do when you were a kid?
375
00:18:22,533 --> 00:18:24,093
Because it's generally not.
376
00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:29,283
Very rarely is it, are they
doing what their childhood them
377
00:18:29,528 --> 00:18:32,268
Joe: Yeah, did your childhood
dreams die when you took this job?
378
00:18:32,628 --> 00:18:36,498
Um, there's a guy named Paul Ford
who's a tech CEO and a writer and he
379
00:18:36,508 --> 00:18:40,008
does this thing when he's at a party
where he'll ask someone what they do,
380
00:18:40,038 --> 00:18:42,938
what they do and then they'll like, you
know, someone asks you that question
381
00:18:42,948 --> 00:18:44,708
and you already want to leave, right?
382
00:18:44,708 --> 00:18:45,268
It's such a
383
00:18:45,483 --> 00:18:48,523
Julie: Oh, it's been scientifically
proven that it is the most
384
00:18:48,548 --> 00:18:48,818
Joe: Yeah,
385
00:18:48,863 --> 00:18:49,373
Julie: question.
386
00:18:49,383 --> 00:18:50,413
Scientifically proven.
387
00:18:50,528 --> 00:18:53,768
Joe: if you ask it as an opener and then
what Paul would do is they would tell
388
00:18:53,768 --> 00:18:57,428
him what he, what they do and he would
say, geez, that sounds really hard.
389
00:18:57,898 --> 00:18:59,968
And then you would get
like the whole person.
390
00:19:00,573 --> 00:19:01,533
Once you do that, right?
391
00:19:01,533 --> 00:19:04,143
I think if you ask people about their,
you know, what they wanted to be as a
392
00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:08,003
kid, you'll get much more of the person
and then it gets much more interesting.
393
00:19:08,003 --> 00:19:11,183
And then from there it's a dance
where they disclose something
394
00:19:11,183 --> 00:19:12,293
a little personal to you.
395
00:19:12,603 --> 00:19:15,683
You make a match disclosure of
something a little personal too, and
396
00:19:15,683 --> 00:19:16,983
you're kind of following each other.
397
00:19:17,153 --> 00:19:20,323
And then sometimes you end up in really
amazing conversations with people if
398
00:19:20,323 --> 00:19:22,353
you have the time to spend together.
399
00:19:22,683 --> 00:19:26,723
Um, but yeah, it's just, you have to be
aware of all these different parts of the
400
00:19:26,723 --> 00:19:28,243
conversation in order to get good at it.
401
00:19:28,243 --> 00:19:29,433
And that's what I try to do with the book.
402
00:19:31,813 --> 00:19:32,773
Julie: What do you think?
403
00:19:33,873 --> 00:19:39,103
You know, what is the balance
between technology or digital
404
00:19:39,103 --> 00:19:40,513
and personal interactions?
405
00:19:40,523 --> 00:19:43,293
We mentioned our phone is
probably the biggest culprit.
406
00:19:43,333 --> 00:19:46,483
It's also sort of the
advancement of technology within
407
00:19:46,483 --> 00:19:47,713
stores, like you mentioned.
408
00:19:48,578 --> 00:19:52,458
Self checkout, which I usually do because
I'm just like I just gotta get out of here
409
00:19:52,458 --> 00:19:54,278
I don't want to wait in line, you know, so
410
00:19:54,288 --> 00:19:59,768
how do we balance the fact that we
are not going to go backwards as far
411
00:19:59,768 --> 00:20:02,318
as a society and our dependence on?
412
00:20:02,318 --> 00:20:08,360
Technology, so how do we balance
that going forward knowing that we do
413
00:20:08,368 --> 00:20:12,118
Joe: Yeah, I mean, we are, we're
hyper social beings and social
414
00:20:12,118 --> 00:20:15,658
contact keeps us healthy, like, that's
the baseline thing to understand
415
00:20:15,998 --> 00:20:17,318
is that you can't go without it.
416
00:20:17,398 --> 00:20:21,458
And I know that, social contact with
friends, with strangers, with family,
417
00:20:21,458 --> 00:20:25,058
wherever they can be fraught, they
can be There can be friction involved.
418
00:20:25,058 --> 00:20:26,118
It can take energy.
419
00:20:26,128 --> 00:20:28,958
Sometimes you have to travel to do it
like there's effort involved in it.
420
00:20:29,718 --> 00:20:32,788
And I think the other thing as humans,
like we tend to gravitate towards,
421
00:20:32,848 --> 00:20:34,788
efficiency and ease in a lot of ways.
422
00:20:35,218 --> 00:20:37,998
So when given the opportunity
to completely withdraw from in
423
00:20:37,998 --> 00:20:41,498
person human interactions, like
we'll do it because it's easier.
424
00:20:41,558 --> 00:20:45,738
And there's an evolutionary reason why we
default, why we'll go for easier things.
425
00:20:45,738 --> 00:20:46,748
It saves energy.
426
00:20:46,998 --> 00:20:49,728
It drains fewer resources in terms
of the food you have to eat, the
427
00:20:49,728 --> 00:20:51,128
calories you burn and everything else.
428
00:20:51,748 --> 00:20:56,748
Um, but we have evolved, in such a
way that we require real connection
429
00:20:56,798 --> 00:20:58,178
or else we start to fall apart.
430
00:20:58,228 --> 00:21:00,328
We fall apart mentally and
we fall apart physically.
431
00:21:00,328 --> 00:21:02,938
So I think the first thing you
need to understand is, this
432
00:21:02,938 --> 00:21:05,218
is not like a fun thing to do.
433
00:21:05,238 --> 00:21:06,408
This is a question of health.
434
00:21:06,478 --> 00:21:07,868
It's a question of nutrition.
435
00:21:07,878 --> 00:21:11,958
Like I think of it in terms of, um,
of like your social diet, right?
436
00:21:11,978 --> 00:21:15,998
So your main, Forms, your main
sources of nourishment are
437
00:21:15,998 --> 00:21:17,068
going to be friends and family.
438
00:21:17,068 --> 00:21:19,008
Hopefully if you have healthy
relationships with your friends
439
00:21:19,008 --> 00:21:22,478
and family, um, but then also just
interacting with the people you meet on
440
00:21:22,478 --> 00:21:24,638
a daily basis, that's also nourishing.
441
00:21:24,648 --> 00:21:25,748
That's also nutrition.
442
00:21:25,788 --> 00:21:28,368
And if those people become
friends, then that's great.
443
00:21:28,583 --> 00:21:28,873
Right?
444
00:21:28,933 --> 00:21:30,013
Then that works a lot better.
445
00:21:30,263 --> 00:21:33,863
And so I think you need to understand what
you need psychologically and what you need
446
00:21:33,863 --> 00:21:36,103
physically in order to be a healthy human.
447
00:21:36,163 --> 00:21:39,973
And social interaction
is, a huge part of that.
448
00:21:40,463 --> 00:21:42,533
Now, can you get that over Zoom?
449
00:21:42,673 --> 00:21:45,463
A little bit, but it's a little
harder because it's like a more,
450
00:21:45,553 --> 00:21:48,363
it's like a low fidelity connection
that you get through Zoom.
451
00:21:48,693 --> 00:21:52,003
A little research showing that,
yes, sometimes, if you have a very
452
00:21:52,003 --> 00:21:55,403
good conversation on a digital
platform, it can have some of the
453
00:21:55,403 --> 00:21:57,133
same effects that it does in real life.
454
00:21:57,898 --> 00:21:58,948
But it's not the same.
455
00:21:58,958 --> 00:22:00,038
You're not getting the full person.
456
00:22:00,038 --> 00:22:01,618
It's, it's a little more two dimensional.
457
00:22:01,618 --> 00:22:04,258
So I think people do need to take
the initiative, but at the same
458
00:22:04,258 --> 00:22:07,458
time, like I love texting, a lot of
this stuff, it definitely makes life
459
00:22:07,458 --> 00:22:11,918
easier, but I know I don't feel great
when I do only this for a long time.
460
00:22:11,918 --> 00:22:14,848
I know that I do need to go out and
just have a conversation with someone
461
00:22:15,138 --> 00:22:19,138
just to remind myself both that it's
doable to kind of refill the tank.
462
00:22:19,428 --> 00:22:22,328
And also just to honestly feel a
little bit better about humanity.
463
00:22:22,768 --> 00:22:25,648
Um, You know, this is a bit
of a side point, but, and I
464
00:22:25,648 --> 00:22:26,518
didn't put this in the book.
465
00:22:26,518 --> 00:22:33,078
I didn't realize it until later, but
when you get all your data about what
466
00:22:33,078 --> 00:22:37,178
humanity is from social media, from the
media, and I say this as like someone
467
00:22:37,178 --> 00:22:40,168
who's in the media for a long time,
you are going to get an overwhelmingly
468
00:22:40,178 --> 00:22:42,048
negative view of humanity, right?
469
00:22:42,048 --> 00:22:44,538
So if you're only reading the
newspaper, you're only, you know,
470
00:22:44,538 --> 00:22:47,138
reading online publications, you're
going through Twitter, whatever.
471
00:22:47,888 --> 00:22:49,978
Much of what that's going to tell
you is that people are horrible,
472
00:22:50,438 --> 00:22:53,238
because the incentives are that
people are horrible on these things.
473
00:22:53,788 --> 00:22:57,358
And so it's, it ends up being really
reassuring to go out into the world and
474
00:22:57,358 --> 00:23:00,418
find that you can communicate with someone
you haven't met, and that person is
475
00:23:00,438 --> 00:23:03,838
interesting, and that person is kind, and
that person is curious, all that stuff.
476
00:23:04,168 --> 00:23:08,808
It's a way to counteract the pessimism
that you get from, an overwhelmingly
477
00:23:08,878 --> 00:23:13,748
digital media diet, and I think everyone
I talked to who does this, who wants to do
478
00:23:13,748 --> 00:23:15,978
it has reported back like a similar thing.
479
00:23:15,978 --> 00:23:18,028
Just being like, I felt
really lousy about people.
480
00:23:18,028 --> 00:23:20,328
And then I went out and I just had a
nice conversation with somebody and
481
00:23:20,358 --> 00:23:23,398
I feel a little bit better because we
generalize from our interactions, right?
482
00:23:23,803 --> 00:23:26,463
You have one really good interaction
and you feel better about people,
483
00:23:26,463 --> 00:23:29,103
and you have one bad interaction
and you feel worse about people.
484
00:23:29,423 --> 00:23:32,443
So you need to be aware of
that, of using this to maintain
485
00:23:32,443 --> 00:23:35,423
a healthier and more balanced
perspective about what people are.
486
00:23:35,493 --> 00:23:37,393
And people can be terrible,
no question about it.
487
00:23:37,863 --> 00:23:40,883
But my experience is that, just
getting out there and talking
488
00:23:40,883 --> 00:23:44,293
to people makes me feel a lot
better about the species, I guess.
489
00:23:45,363 --> 00:23:45,863
Julie: Yeah.
490
00:23:46,213 --> 00:23:50,093
Do you have one story that
someone's shared with you that
491
00:23:50,093 --> 00:23:54,423
you're like, yes, that's an amazing
stranger intersection story?
492
00:23:55,018 --> 00:23:58,128
Joe: Yeah, there's, it didn't, this didn't
make the book because it was such a long
493
00:23:58,128 --> 00:24:01,278
and complicated story that my editor
wouldn't let me put it in there, but I was
494
00:24:01,348 --> 00:24:02,818
actually talking to this guy yesterday.
495
00:24:02,928 --> 00:24:09,088
, I was in Boston and I was
getting a taxi back to the train
496
00:24:09,088 --> 00:24:10,698
station like early one morning.
497
00:24:11,033 --> 00:24:16,033
To go back to New York where I live
and the Lyft driver shows up and he
498
00:24:16,033 --> 00:24:18,733
had a dish of starburst in his car.
499
00:24:19,053 --> 00:24:21,243
And so, you know, it
was just like starburst.
500
00:24:21,243 --> 00:24:22,153
I haven't seen these in a while.
501
00:24:22,163 --> 00:24:25,303
And he was like, yeah, you know, I
tried hard candy and no one wanted it.
502
00:24:25,313 --> 00:24:27,413
And I tried some other stuff and
it seems like starburst is the
503
00:24:27,413 --> 00:24:29,503
thing that people really, people
are really interested in this.
504
00:24:29,933 --> 00:24:33,853
And so we started talking and he
ended up being one of the most
505
00:24:33,853 --> 00:24:35,303
interesting people I've ever met.
506
00:24:35,383 --> 00:24:39,503
And we're, to this day, we're still
friends, but he was born female,
507
00:24:39,503 --> 00:24:44,123
identified as male, had a horrendous
childhood in the South, lived all
508
00:24:44,123 --> 00:24:49,103
over the country, super smart, really
interesting, really charismatic, ended
509
00:24:49,103 --> 00:24:54,393
up going to Smith College at like 45 to
study public health, ended up in Uganda.
510
00:24:54,823 --> 00:25:00,113
While in Uganda, Locked eyes one
day in a village called Gulu, with
511
00:25:00,113 --> 00:25:01,783
a kid who was covered with burns.
512
00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:03,743
Like, 60 percent of his
body was covered with burns.
513
00:25:03,743 --> 00:25:05,573
I think he was 10 years
old when Jay met him.
514
00:25:06,373 --> 00:25:08,233
And they had this profound connection.
515
00:25:08,683 --> 00:25:11,753
And from that point, Jay decided
that he was going to try to get
516
00:25:11,753 --> 00:25:13,143
this kid the medical care he needed.
517
00:25:13,143 --> 00:25:16,123
Because if you get that burned
at a young age, like you'll die.
518
00:25:16,213 --> 00:25:18,963
Your skin doesn't stretch,
it doesn't grow, so you need
519
00:25:18,963 --> 00:25:19,933
serious medical treatment.
520
00:25:20,403 --> 00:25:24,523
So Jay spent 10 years of his life,
trying to get this kid the help that
521
00:25:24,523 --> 00:25:29,173
he needed in order to survive, and
just this incredible story of like all,
522
00:25:29,173 --> 00:25:30,493
everything they went through together.
523
00:25:30,778 --> 00:25:34,948
Really remarkable, and that all came from
me noticing that he had Starburst in the
524
00:25:34,948 --> 00:25:38,948
car, and it was such a great company, you
know, we rode in the car for 15 minutes
525
00:25:38,968 --> 00:25:42,258
and I got, you know, he told me about a
lot of that and then I just called him
526
00:25:42,258 --> 00:25:46,808
and we ended up talking more and, now
we're pals, but I got to, experience that.
527
00:25:47,078 --> 00:25:48,898
You know, which is a wildlife story.
528
00:25:49,238 --> 00:25:52,328
I also met him, in the middle of his
transition, and so I couldn't say that
529
00:25:52,328 --> 00:25:55,548
I had any transgendered friends, and
so it was interesting meeting someone,
530
00:25:55,588 --> 00:25:57,818
because now I have an understanding of
what the issues are like there, what
531
00:25:57,818 --> 00:26:01,308
the difficulties are like, and what
the, the struggles and the unintended
532
00:26:01,308 --> 00:26:02,958
sources of comedy are in this.
533
00:26:02,958 --> 00:26:05,398
Like, he was just a, just a
fascinating person, and also just,
534
00:26:05,398 --> 00:26:06,998
like, you know, a good guy to talk to.
535
00:26:07,408 --> 00:26:09,328
So, I think that was probably my favorite.
536
00:26:09,328 --> 00:26:12,418
I, you know, I had a, I put a lot of
interactions in the book that were just
537
00:26:12,418 --> 00:26:16,518
kind of passing interactions that ended
up being Quite profound interactions on
538
00:26:16,518 --> 00:26:19,718
the subway, which you're not supposed
to do, but those turned out, you know,
539
00:26:19,728 --> 00:26:21,368
pretty, pretty remarkable in some ways.
540
00:26:21,883 --> 00:26:22,053
Julie: What?
541
00:26:22,053 --> 00:26:23,093
What do you mean you're not supposed
542
00:26:23,358 --> 00:26:25,538
Joe: Nobody's supposed to talk
to strangers in the subway.
543
00:26:25,868 --> 00:26:26,128
Kiddingly.
544
00:26:26,763 --> 00:26:28,823
That's like a, that's like
one of the big social norms.
545
00:26:28,833 --> 00:26:31,383
So one of the things that keeps people
from doing this is like the idea
546
00:26:31,383 --> 00:26:33,243
that you're not supposed to, right?
547
00:26:33,643 --> 00:26:36,333
Um, and subways are one of the
places that people feel least
548
00:26:36,333 --> 00:26:37,873
comfortable talking to strangers.
549
00:26:38,323 --> 00:26:40,813
Um, I think because it's so crowded
and everyone's very aware that
550
00:26:40,813 --> 00:26:43,753
everyone else is like busy and
trying to get their quiet time in.
551
00:26:43,753 --> 00:26:48,528
But there's been A number of pretty big
studies on this where psychologists sent
552
00:26:48,558 --> 00:26:52,018
people out to, initiate conversations
with strangers on mass transit,
553
00:26:52,438 --> 00:26:55,208
and every single one of them going
out is like, this is a disaster.
554
00:26:55,218 --> 00:26:56,438
People are going to think I'm nuts.
555
00:26:56,578 --> 00:26:57,728
Someone's going to attack me.
556
00:26:58,068 --> 00:26:59,868
They were overwhelmingly pessimistic.
557
00:27:00,248 --> 00:27:01,558
About how it was going to go.
558
00:27:01,558 --> 00:27:05,738
And then they did it and it was unanimous,
like literally unanimously positive.
559
00:27:06,298 --> 00:27:09,648
these participants were, men and
women across multitude of ages.
560
00:27:10,018 --> 00:27:12,748
Um, and there wasn't a single
one who had a bad experience.
561
00:27:12,958 --> 00:27:15,408
So it was pretty amazing, but
there is like, there's this idea
562
00:27:15,408 --> 00:27:16,448
that you're not supposed to do it.
563
00:27:16,828 --> 00:27:20,338
And we have a very hard time
violating social norms as humans.
564
00:27:20,583 --> 00:27:23,803
Julie: Is that a newer, can
I ask a clarifying question?
565
00:27:23,803 --> 00:27:25,723
Was that, is that, I don't
take the subway anymore.
566
00:27:25,733 --> 00:27:29,223
I haven't taken the subway or
the T cause I was in Boston.
567
00:27:29,573 --> 00:27:33,863
I haven't taken the T regularly since
I started my business eight years ago.
568
00:27:34,333 --> 00:27:35,843
Cause now I just drive to my office.
569
00:27:35,873 --> 00:27:38,243
But when I did take the T.
570
00:27:38,978 --> 00:27:43,688
I was so curious about people on
the train, what they were reading,
571
00:27:43,698 --> 00:27:48,088
where they were, you know, like
I would always, I would always
572
00:27:48,088 --> 00:27:49,798
talk to people , on the train.
573
00:27:50,178 --> 00:27:55,038
Is that a newer social norm or is
it, or did I just always buck the
574
00:27:55,178 --> 00:27:55,288
Joe: Yeah.
575
00:27:55,428 --> 00:27:56,618
I think you always buck the system.
576
00:27:56,618 --> 00:27:59,228
And I think there's people with a
certain approach and a certain energy
577
00:27:59,228 --> 00:28:00,798
who can get away with a lot of this.
578
00:28:00,868 --> 00:28:02,278
And, my idea is that.
579
00:28:02,513 --> 00:28:05,933
Having learned about this and having
practiced it a lot, you can get to
580
00:28:05,933 --> 00:28:09,213
the place where you can just violate
all these social norms and ease
581
00:28:09,563 --> 00:28:10,853
and people are comfortable with it.
582
00:28:10,973 --> 00:28:15,253
It becomes problem problematic if I'm
like, if I'm like sweating trying to talk
583
00:28:15,253 --> 00:28:18,583
to someone on the train, you know, like
making me nervous, I'll make them nervous.
584
00:28:18,583 --> 00:28:20,833
But if you're confident, you're
comfortable and you're respectful.
585
00:28:21,513 --> 00:28:22,363
You can pull it off.
586
00:28:22,723 --> 00:28:25,253
, again, I'm the woman, Georgie
Nightingale in England.
587
00:28:25,773 --> 00:28:27,063
She got so good at it.
588
00:28:27,133 --> 00:28:30,633
She's a genius at this stuff, but she
would get on the train, the tube in
589
00:28:30,633 --> 00:28:35,333
London and see a man wearing a hat
and just point to him and go, and that
590
00:28:35,333 --> 00:28:36,783
would be enough to start a conversation.
591
00:28:36,793 --> 00:28:40,013
Like she was so, she just had
like this way about her that it
592
00:28:40,033 --> 00:28:41,693
made it very easy to do this.
593
00:28:42,173 --> 00:28:44,673
, but yeah, I think in a lot of cases,
especially in London, like it's a
594
00:28:44,763 --> 00:28:46,683
huge no, no, you can just Google it.
595
00:28:46,713 --> 00:28:49,393
And people are horrified at the prospect
of talking to people on the tube.
596
00:28:50,868 --> 00:28:56,148
Julie: I had no idea, but I'm
also fascinated by strangers.
597
00:28:56,158 --> 00:28:58,908
So I feel like anytime I can
talk to a stranger, I'm happy.
598
00:28:58,918 --> 00:29:02,798
So, as we wrap up, which I
don't want to, because I could
599
00:29:02,798 --> 00:29:04,168
talk about this all day long.
600
00:29:05,848 --> 00:29:11,568
Do you have one thing that the
listeners could just do today?
601
00:29:12,158 --> 00:29:15,228
to start doing this in,
in their daily life.
602
00:29:15,228 --> 00:29:18,258
I
603
00:29:18,603 --> 00:29:20,553
Joe: Um, I would say,
604
00:29:21,073 --> 00:29:24,713
So when you're just in your day
to day interactions with a waiter
605
00:29:25,243 --> 00:29:28,553
at a restaurant with a cashier,
ask them how they're doing.
606
00:29:28,683 --> 00:29:32,193
But see if you can get a real
answer, like show actual curiosity.
607
00:29:32,678 --> 00:29:34,288
And I think that's, it's good.
608
00:29:34,328 --> 00:29:38,338
It's a good place to practice because
it's, you know, it's a finite interaction.
609
00:29:38,348 --> 00:29:39,458
It's not going to go on forever.
610
00:29:39,478 --> 00:29:41,748
There's no chance that you're going
to get stuck there for an hour.
611
00:29:42,158 --> 00:29:44,778
it's just a quick interaction,
but it's a way to, you know, to
612
00:29:44,778 --> 00:29:46,318
use like an exercise metaphor.
613
00:29:46,318 --> 00:29:47,598
It's like a way to get your reps in.
614
00:29:48,048 --> 00:29:51,758
But I think more importantly,
those jobs are so shitty.
615
00:29:51,758 --> 00:29:54,418
Now people are so nasty
to these people that.
616
00:29:54,963 --> 00:29:58,933
Just being more human around
them and showing that you see
617
00:29:58,933 --> 00:30:02,093
them as human beings as equals and
that you're actually interested.
618
00:30:02,823 --> 00:30:05,663
Um, and you know, you, again, you
have to mind yourself a little bit.
619
00:30:05,663 --> 00:30:08,583
Don't go in there and just roll in
and ask a super personal question.
620
00:30:09,133 --> 00:30:11,373
But just aim for a little
bit of connection, right?
621
00:30:11,463 --> 00:30:15,343
Um, and, and you'll come away
feeling better and you'll
622
00:30:15,343 --> 00:30:16,813
get better at it as a result.
623
00:30:16,833 --> 00:30:20,213
But like more to the point, their
day will be a little bit easier.
624
00:30:20,738 --> 00:30:24,638
Um, and I think it's just like a kindness
that people need to relearn again.
625
00:30:24,668 --> 00:30:28,158
I feel like we forgot how to be
humans, uh, to a pretty serious
626
00:30:28,238 --> 00:30:31,038
degree during the pandemic and
we need to rebuild those muscles.
627
00:30:31,338 --> 00:30:35,708
You need to treat people like humans
and not robots that exist to serve us.
628
00:30:37,278 --> 00:30:38,108
Julie: All right, Joe.
629
00:30:38,208 --> 00:30:39,098
Joe, this was great.
630
00:30:39,498 --> 00:30:41,178
You're not a stranger to me anymore.
631
00:30:41,748 --> 00:30:43,358
You were before this, but not anymore.
632
00:30:43,358 --> 00:30:43,968
Thanks so much for
633
00:30:44,203 --> 00:30:45,153
Joe: Yeah, thank you for having me.
634
00:30:45,153 --> 00:30:45,773
It was a pleasure.
635
00:30:54,401 --> 00:30:58,241
There were so many great takeaways
from this episode, but I think my
636
00:30:58,241 --> 00:31:01,931
nugget that I'm going to be coming
away with and keep in my back pocket.
637
00:31:02,381 --> 00:31:05,831
Is that small talk is a greeting ritual.
638
00:31:06,101 --> 00:31:07,331
It's like a handshake.
639
00:31:07,631 --> 00:31:12,251
Make sure it's quick and use it as a
way to engage in a deeper conversation.
640
00:31:13,301 --> 00:31:18,431
I hope Joe has helped everyone come
away with an new found appreciation
641
00:31:18,431 --> 00:31:20,891
for the potential in every encounter.
642
00:31:21,401 --> 00:31:22,511
Or perhaps.
643
00:31:23,591 --> 00:31:26,561
A reminder of the power of human
connection that emerges when we
644
00:31:26,561 --> 00:31:30,841
step beyond our comfort zones, even
if it's just a little itsy bitsy.
645
00:31:31,801 --> 00:31:34,051
You know, peace beyond our comfort zones.
646
00:31:34,711 --> 00:31:35,191
Remember.
647
00:31:35,701 --> 00:31:37,531
Every stranger as a potential friend.
648
00:31:37,891 --> 00:31:41,881
A source of inspiration or a
gateway to a new perspective.
649
00:31:42,211 --> 00:31:45,331
Or maybe just a way to brighten
your day for a couple of minutes.
650
00:31:46,211 --> 00:31:47,891
By embracing the power of strangers.
651
00:31:47,891 --> 00:31:49,511
We can enrich our lives.
652
00:31:49,931 --> 00:31:53,191
Broaden our perspectives and
contribute to the creation.
653
00:31:53,911 --> 00:31:56,341
I have a more connected
and compassionate world.
654
00:31:57,361 --> 00:31:58,021
All right friends.
655
00:31:58,651 --> 00:32:01,111
Onto the drink of the week,
which can you believe it?
656
00:32:01,381 --> 00:32:03,931
There is a cocktail
called stranger danger.
657
00:32:04,231 --> 00:32:05,341
Of course, of course there is.
658
00:32:05,341 --> 00:32:06,961
This is a cocktail riff for everything.
659
00:32:07,531 --> 00:32:10,531
It comes to us from the
folks at imbibe magazine.
660
00:32:10,531 --> 00:32:11,461
Here's what you're going to need.
661
00:32:12,361 --> 00:32:14,011
One and a half ounces of Pisco.
662
00:32:14,491 --> 00:32:15,991
A half an ounce of mezcal.
663
00:32:16,291 --> 00:32:19,321
One ounce orange cream soda syrup.
664
00:32:19,321 --> 00:32:20,461
I'm going to give you the recipe for that.
665
00:32:21,031 --> 00:32:22,531
One ounce of fresh lemon juice.
666
00:32:22,861 --> 00:32:26,461
Three forests, ounce of
aquafaba or one egg right now.
667
00:32:26,491 --> 00:32:27,301
Don't get freaked out.
668
00:32:27,331 --> 00:32:31,381
I drink cocktails with egg whites
all the time, and I've never had
669
00:32:31,381 --> 00:32:32,821
an adverse reaction from the Iraq.
670
00:32:32,851 --> 00:32:37,161
Ag so that orange cream soda syrup.
671
00:32:37,191 --> 00:32:38,061
Here's the recipe.
672
00:32:38,121 --> 00:32:42,081
Um, this is obviously for a
batch of it for big batch.
673
00:32:42,081 --> 00:32:44,931
So you could half it or
quarter it as you need.
674
00:32:45,141 --> 00:32:47,031
So here's the recipe for that?
675
00:32:48,261 --> 00:32:50,841
Combined 45 ounces of Sunkist.
676
00:32:51,591 --> 00:32:54,201
With 45 ounces of sugar.
677
00:32:54,981 --> 00:32:56,901
Cause, you know, It's simple surface.
678
00:32:56,901 --> 00:32:57,801
Usually one-to-one.
679
00:32:58,131 --> 00:33:02,391
Two ounces of vanilla extract and
a sauce pan over medium high heat.
680
00:33:02,421 --> 00:33:04,131
Bring to almost a boil.
681
00:33:04,521 --> 00:33:05,661
Stir regularly.
682
00:33:05,871 --> 00:33:10,221
Then let simmer on low heat for 10 to 15
minutes, take off of the heat and cool.
683
00:33:10,221 --> 00:33:12,621
And then store in the
refrigerator for up to a month.
684
00:33:12,621 --> 00:33:14,391
Like I said, this is for a big batch.
685
00:33:14,391 --> 00:33:16,431
So break it down as you see, it's usually.
686
00:33:16,731 --> 00:33:19,521
Just one once with you have a cup of
Sunkist, use a cup of sugar, get it.
687
00:33:20,061 --> 00:33:21,921
Um, and then obviously
bring down the vanilla.
688
00:33:22,791 --> 00:33:23,121
Okay.
689
00:33:23,121 --> 00:33:26,301
So after you have that simple
syrup made, this is what you're
690
00:33:26,301 --> 00:33:27,291
going to do for the cocktail.
691
00:33:27,291 --> 00:33:29,721
You're going to combine all of
the ingredients in a shaker.
692
00:33:30,251 --> 00:33:31,361
then dry shake.
693
00:33:31,361 --> 00:33:36,731
So no ice for a minute and then add
ice and shake for 30 more seconds.
694
00:33:37,061 --> 00:33:38,681
Double strain into a coupe glass.
695
00:33:39,401 --> 00:33:40,061
All right friends.
696
00:33:40,961 --> 00:33:43,451
That was a more complicated
cocktail that I normally give.
697
00:33:43,511 --> 00:33:45,611
Um, let me know if you
make it all right, friends.
698
00:33:45,641 --> 00:33:46,391
That's all for this week.
699
00:33:46,421 --> 00:33:49,091
If you like what you heard today,
of course, please leave a review
700
00:33:49,121 --> 00:33:50,561
and subscribe to the podcast.
701
00:33:50,921 --> 00:33:53,951
Also, please remember to share the podcast
to help it reach a larger audience.
702
00:33:54,461 --> 00:33:57,071
If you want more, Julie
Brown, you can find my book.
703
00:33:57,101 --> 00:33:58,931
This shit works on Amazon
and Barnes and noble.
704
00:33:58,931 --> 00:34:00,851
You can find me on
LinkedIn at Julie, Ron BD.
705
00:34:00,851 --> 00:34:02,771
Just let me know where you
found me when you reach out.
706
00:34:03,491 --> 00:34:06,671
I am Julie Brown underscored BD
on the Instagram, or you can just
707
00:34:06,671 --> 00:34:10,451
pop it over to my website, Julie
Brown, bd.com until next week.
708
00:34:10,841 --> 00:34:11,201
Cheers.
