AMY LOOPER: 00:00:00

My goal was "I'm going to VBAC", which is

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:03

'Vaginal Birth After Caesarean'.

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:06

And you know, really tried hard for that and I did.

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:10

But at the end they had to use forceps and they actually had a failed epidural.

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:14

when they did the epidural, I felt the twinge and I'm like, "This isn't working!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:17

And come to find out later in the medical records, it was

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:19

completely a failed epidural.

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:21

So when I had forceps, it was very painful.

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:23

Like very physically traumatic!

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:26

And then they brought in all these medical students because they thought

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:29

that this was a really cool procedure.

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:31

But on the mum, on the patient, it was extremely traumatic because I'm

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:35

trying for hours to have this baby and to progress the birth and then have

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:41

all of these people in there and then kind of having your spouse kind of

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:44

like, "Oh, you're good, you're fine!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:46

You know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:47

And it was like, "No, I'm not fine!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:49

You know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:49

So what I would say is if you're a spouse listening and your wife

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:54

is telling you, the mother is telling you like, "I am not fine.

AMY LOOPER: 00:00:58

This was really traumatic," believe her because it is.

AMY LOOPER: 00:01:03

And if that's their experience, that's their experience.

VIKKI: 00:01:07

Having a baby is meant to be the most joyful time of your life.

VIKKI: 00:01:11

But for many mums and dads it can be the hardest and at

VIKKI: 00:01:16

times the darkest of places.

VIKKI: 00:01:19

Welcome to Season 2 of Blue MumDays the podcast for anyone

VIKKI: 00:01:23

struggling with parenting.

VIKKI: 00:01:26

All the stories shared here are from the heart These are real

VIKKI: 00:01:29

conversations and may be triggering so please listen with discretion.

VIKKI: 00:01:35

Today's episode covers birth trauma, post-traumatic

VIKKI: 00:01:38

stress disorder and suicide.

VIKKI: 00:01:42

We will also signpost you to help in the show notes.

VIKKI: 00:01:46

Thank you.

VIKKI: 00:01:49

This episode was recorded during the spring of 2022.

VIKKI: 00:01:54

Today's guest is Amy Leigh Looper, who is a maternal leadership

VIKKI: 00:01:58

coach based in the United States.

VIKKI: 00:02:00

She joins me today from Arizona.

VIKKI: 00:02:03

Amy turned founder in 2020 after spending almost two decades in enterprise

VIKKI: 00:02:09

software sales where she was a senior sales leader having generated over $50

VIKKI: 00:02:14

million in revenue as a cybersecurity and healthcare software professional.

VIKKI: 00:02:19

After landing the number one rep for over four organizations within

VIKKI: 00:02:23

that field, Amy landed her largest promotion to the title 'working mother'.

VIKKI: 00:02:30

Having experienced postpartum depression with both of her children, Amy is now

VIKKI: 00:02:35

tackling maternal mental health, where she's bringing all of her knowledge

VIKKI: 00:02:39

and drive to coaching individuals.

VIKKI: 00:02:41

Her maternal leadership programme, ' Postpartum Coaching With Heart',

VIKKI: 00:02:46

is designed to reduce fear and anxiety, create more connection,

VIKKI: 00:02:50

clarity, confidence and growth.

VIKKI: 00:02:53

Thank you so much for joining me today, Amy.

VIKKI: 00:02:55

How is the weather where you are?

AMY LOOPER: 00:02:58

Oh, it's beautiful.

AMY LOOPER: 00:02:59

Vikki.

AMY LOOPER: 00:02:59

We're in Arizona, so it's starting to become warm and people are starting to

AMY LOOPER: 00:03:04

get back into the pool - it's wonderful!

AMY LOOPER: 00:03:07

It's a good time to come on vacation.

VIKKI: 00:03:09

Oh, fabulous.

VIKKI: 00:03:10

it's a beautiful early spring afternoon here.

VIKKI: 00:03:13

Not quite as, as warm as where it is where you are.

VIKKI: 00:03:16

But, beautiful blue sky, no cloud.

VIKKI: 00:03:18

So all good.

VIKKI: 00:03:20

And I have to apologise to both Amy and any listeners out there.

VIKKI: 00:03:24

I have just fed my Siamese cat Brandy, in the hopes that he would be quiet, but he's

VIKKI: 00:03:29

- I can hear him outside my door shouting!

VIKKI: 00:03:32

So, um, yeah, huge apologies if you hear him meowing in the

VIKKI: 00:03:36

background, but hopefully, fingers crossed, he'll be nice and quiet!

VIKKI: 00:03:40

Anyway, Amy, it sounds like you had a really successful

VIKKI: 00:03:44

career before becoming a mum.

VIKKI: 00:03:46

Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what life was like for

VIKKI: 00:03:49

you before you had your children?

AMY LOOPER: 00:03:52

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:03:52

So life, you know, was, um, like kind of a, a typical American corporate

AMY LOOPER: 00:03:57

working mum I was working up the ladder in corporate, um, sales, landed

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:02

a promotion into sales leadership.

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:05

And so I travelled a lot and, um, you know, was working with about 10 sales

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:10

reps around the country at that time.

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:13

So it was a, it was good.

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:15

We were, we were newlyweds with two dogs and careers.

VIKKI: 00:04:20

Was pregnancy something you were planning for?

VIKKI: 00:04:24

Were you wanting to start a family or did things just happen organically?

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:30

Yeah, they definitely happened organically for us.

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:33

both times we were blessed and, I think we were given these blessings

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:38

against by, all of our human design.

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:41

But yeah, we were blessed with, our daughter Ava first, and then

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:44

followed up a couple of years later by our daughter Emily.

VIKKI: 00:04:47

Fabulous.

VIKKI: 00:04:47

So how did you feel when you first found out you were pregnant

VIKKI: 00:04:51

with your first daughter?

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:53

Yeah, I had just, actually gotten promoted to being a sales manager,

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:56

which I was really working towards.

AMY LOOPER: 00:04:58

I had, been a top performing rep in our company but I knew that I

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:02

really had this calling to lead people and to really coach people.

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:06

I just really loved to put those 'mum arms' around people and help

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:09

them get to the next level of performance that they wanted to go.

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:13

But I remember the day that I found out I was pregnant with

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:15

Aiva and, such a happy moment.

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:17

Such a, "Oh my gosh, what are we gonna do as first time parents?"

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:21

moment, It was a big surprise for sure.

VIKKI: 00:05:23

How was that first pregnancy?

VIKKI: 00:05:26

Were you well during it or did you have any sort of

VIKKI: 00:05:29

problems like morning sickness?

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:31

Yeah, we had a high risk pregnancy actually with that one.

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:34

So, it went really well the first trimester.

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:37

The second trimester I was, in California actually travelling for work.

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:42

And I had a bleeding episode and went into the hospital there and

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:46

soon to find out I had something they call, placenta previa.

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:50

I didn't realize how serious it was until I was in the hospital for three days and

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:54

you really have to limit mobility to make sure, the baby does not arrive so early.

AMY LOOPER: 00:05:59

And it was only 19 weeks, so we knew we had to keep her in

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:02

just as, as long as possible.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:05

And so my husband rushed up on an emergency flight.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:08

He had to come get me.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:10

The doctors were talking about, how we were even going to have to maybe

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:14

even drive home versus fly home, which was like a 17 hour drive.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:18

yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:18

So to not, have any sudden movement.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:21

I had to be in a wheelchair.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:22

They actually let us go and discharged us and let us fly home.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:26

But we had to tell the pilot, the scenario in case something happened and they would

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:31

have to land the plane for us, if needed.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:35

And so we made it successfully back to Arizona.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:38

And then I went on bedrest for three months.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:41

It wasn't that I had to lay in bed all the time, but I had to stay

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:43

home and I couldn't really leave.

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:45

so that was difficult, to be, once travelling all the time and a go-getter

AMY LOOPER: 00:06:50

and outside of my home to now being like inside of my home for a really long time.

VIKKI: 00:06:55

Wow.

VIKKI: 00:06:55

So Covid pandemic lockdown was nothing compared to to that.

VIKKI: 00:07:01

Wow.

VIKKI: 00:07:02

So that sounds like an extremely stressful, occurrence.

VIKKI: 00:07:07

So one minute you are working as normal at work, you're travelling and

VIKKI: 00:07:12

then you are rushed into a hospital.

VIKKI: 00:07:14

I mean, obviously for any woman, if you experience bleeding

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:18

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:07:18

during your pregnancy, it's really stressful and alarming because

VIKKI: 00:07:22

especially if it's your first, you don't understand what's happening.

VIKKI: 00:07:26

so mentally that must have been incredibly tough for you.

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:30

It was tough.

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:31

It was tough.

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:32

I didn't realize how tough it was.

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:34

and I think it all kind of came together after I had, Aiva, she was actually born

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:39

with something called a tongue- tie.

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:41

And I don't know what your experience is with tongue- ties at all, but

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:45

they don't catch them regularly, especially here in the United States.

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:48

And so oftentimes what happens is you figure out that your

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:51

baby is not breastfeeding as smoothly as one could hope.

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:55

You're not sleeping as the mum.

AMY LOOPER: 00:07:57

And so the sleep deprivation and everything really caught up with me

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:01

after all of that series of bedrest.

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:04

And then I had a C-section with Aiva and then went into a lengthy

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:09

period of trying to breastfeed.

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:11

And it was a couple of months in where you just, you know, as a career- achievement-

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:15

oriented kind of personality, you place a lot of stress internally on yourself

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:21

to do the best that you can at things.

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:24

And when something doesn't work out, you certainly, your mind can go to "I'm

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:29

a failure", when in fact the outside conditions are just a challenge, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:34

And so we went through that and it ended up really, you know, forming

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:38

into postpartum depression after all of those, different scenarios.

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:44

because it was just a, a high stress period and never feeling like you

AMY LOOPER: 00:08:47

could just get into a good rhythm until several months after the baby was born.

VIKKI: 00:08:52

I know so many women are listening to that and identifying with some of

VIKKI: 00:08:56

those things that you are talking about.

VIKKI: 00:08:58

I know for an awful lot of women who have been through postpartum

VIKKI: 00:09:03

or postnatal depression tend to be high achieving successful women

VIKKI: 00:09:08

in their own fields and who have a lot of control over their lives.

VIKKI: 00:09:12

And then obviously when baby comes along, you don't have as much

VIKKI: 00:09:17

control and you can take it very personally when you are struggling

VIKKI: 00:09:22

with those challenges and especially with something like breastfeeding,

VIKKI: 00:09:25

which can be extremely triggering.

VIKKI: 00:09:28

And I think your point about tongue tie is, you know, it's a huge factor

VIKKI: 00:09:33

in difficulties with breastfeeding.

VIKKI: 00:09:35

I mean, I'm no medical professional, but from my understanding it can make feeding

VIKKI: 00:09:40

very difficult, so baby's not as satisfied because they're not getting as much milk.

VIKKI: 00:09:44

It's very painful for you because you are constantly trying to change your latch.

VIKKI: 00:09:49

And because things aren't flowing as they should be, it can be a very

VIKKI: 00:09:52

unpleasant and painful experience as opposed to something that, when it's

VIKKI: 00:09:57

working well, breastfeeding can be the most lovely thing in the world.

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:01

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:10:02

wow.

VIKKI: 00:10:02

A lot, a lot going on.

VIKKI: 00:10:04

are you comfortable to talk about the birth experience with Aiva?

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:07

Yeah, definitely.

VIKKI: 00:10:09

How was that experience for you?

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:11

Yeah, the birthing experience with Aiva was a

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:13

breeze compared to my second one.

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:16

You know, having a c-section, I, I came from medical sales and so I

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:20

was always kind of interested in the whole surgery aspect of it.

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:23

So that, for me was easy.

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:25

I thought it was pretty, pretty, actually neat to go through a C-section.

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:28

I had pain medication, it wasn't painful, afterwards, those of you who've had a

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:33

C-section, you probably can remember taking your first shower, the first

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:37

walk down the hallway after a C-section.

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:39

And that, that is, a little bit of a traumatic experience just

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:43

because it's, you know, you've had major a bdominal surgery.

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:47

But yeah, my, the second birth of my daughter was where, it was

AMY LOOPER: 00:10:50

pretty traumatic birthing, birthing trauma in the birthing room.

VIKKI: 00:10:54

I'm so sorry to hear about that.

VIKKI: 00:10:58

So what sort of support did you have around you when you first had Aiva?

VIKKI: 00:11:03

Did you feel like you had, you know, . Good support from your partner?

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:08

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:09

Yeah, I did.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:09

I felt like I had good support with the first one.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:12

and I will just share that, I had, good support from them.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:17

I had, a good support from an au pair.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:19

Once I got back to work and we transitioned into that,

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:23

It was really with the second daughter.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:25

Because what happened in between both of my pregnancies and I talk about this

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:29

openly, with folks, is I had a very close family member actually commit suicide,

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:35

on my husband's side of the family.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:36

And it really was difficult for everybody to just wrap their hands

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:42

around that sudden situation.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:43

And then we had lost my mother-in-law shortly after that as well.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:46

And so the whole family just really was taken, into, their

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:51

attention was to that spot.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:53

And so I really had to keep things together with my second

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:56

new baby and the first one.

AMY LOOPER: 00:11:58

And that was really difficult mentally.

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:02

You know, we had had a second, surprise child.

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:04

She was definitely a surprise!

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:06

We found out on my husband's 40th birthday.

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:08

I said," Happy birthday, we're having another one!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:12

and um, and then we of worked through that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:15

But that was really tough, I would say for any of you experiencing

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:19

postpartum depression and you felt like your spouse maybe wasn't able

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:23

to just be emotionally there for you.

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:26

That can definitely contribute to that experience of postpartum

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:29

depression and anxiety.

VIKKI: 00:12:31

My goodness.

VIKKI: 00:12:32

It sounds like you've had everything thrown at you.

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:35

We really did.

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:36

We did, but you know what?

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:37

We've overcome it.

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:38

So it's it's a testament to just, you know, you gotta keep

AMY LOOPER: 00:12:41

going and keep overcoming all the challenges that come up.

VIKKI: 00:12:44

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:12:44

and that you do get there.

VIKKI: 00:12:46

You know, a lot of listeners listening to the podcast now, potentially feel at rock

VIKKI: 00:12:51

bottom and feel that they can't see any way out of what they're going through.

VIKKI: 00:12:55

But we're here as testimony to the fact that you will get better and you will

VIKKI: 00:13:00

not always feel as low as you, you do.

VIKKI: 00:13:03

You chatting to me today and looking fabulous and, so bright and

VIKKI: 00:13:07

confident is just proof of that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:09

Aw thank you.

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:10

Yeah, and I think these things can also bring your marriages together too.

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:13

It doesn't always have to end up in divorce, separation, all of those things

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:17

that sometimes in the early days you really, you know, I think every couple

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:21

goes through their growth period too.

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:23

And so if you really lean in with love and start to lead with love

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:26

versus all the other distractions that just naturally come up, then

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:31

you can be brought back together.

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:32

It might take some time.

AMY LOOPER: 00:13:33

It took us a while, but you can definitely come back around.

VIKKI: 00:13:38

That's another great point because it's so easy, especially

VIKKI: 00:13:41

in the early days when you are both absolutely sleep deprived.

VIKKI: 00:13:45

You know, if my husband would say he was tired and I would go straight

VIKKI: 00:13:49

into the "Welcome to my world!"

VIKKI: 00:13:51

point of view, which is really uncompassionate to how he's feeling,

VIKKI: 00:13:57

because of course, as a partner, any birth partner also has all the effects and the

VIKKI: 00:14:02

major transition of having a little one in their life and the sleep deprivation.

VIKKI: 00:14:07

And so I think, yeah, if you are able to just speak to each other with

VIKKI: 00:14:11

love and compassion, and I know in the early days it feels very hard.

VIKKI: 00:14:16

You know, you can feel like passing ships in the night where you are going to bed at

VIKKI: 00:14:20

eight o'clock in the evening to get ahead, ready for waking up during the night.

VIKKI: 00:14:25

But you do get your relationship back and you do get your evenings back,

VIKKI: 00:14:31

it's just a temporary period of time.

VIKKI: 00:14:34

So my goodness, you had so much to deal with.

VIKKI: 00:14:38

Obviously with, you know, the tragic death in the family, did you feel you

VIKKI: 00:14:43

didn't have a place or space to talk about how you were feeling with everything?

AMY LOOPER: 00:14:49

I definitely didn't feel heard just because, when your spouse

AMY LOOPER: 00:14:53

is going through that kind of trauma as well, sometimes it feels like "We've

AMY LOOPER: 00:14:58

already been through this, like you're, you know, we're having a, a baby."

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:01

Like sometimes your emotions are dismissed.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:04

And what happened with the birth of my daughter, uh, Emberly, my

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:08

second one, I had you know, back labor for the last couple of months.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:11

I'm sure some of you have been in that situation where your baby's maybe

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:14

posterior and kind of looking towards your back a little bit- that can be

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:18

very uncomfortable for the final weeks.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:20

But when we went into, um, actually giving birth, I was really determined to try

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:26

to prevent postpartum depression again.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:28

At that point I didn't know what I know now where you can't necessarily,

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:31

um, prevent postpartum depression.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:34

But my goal was "I'm going to VBAC", which is 'Vaginal Birth After Caesarean'.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:40

And you know, really tried hard for that and I did.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:44

But at the end they had to use forceps and they actually had a failed epidural.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:48

when they did the epidural, I felt the twinge and I'm like, "This isn't working!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:52

And come to find out later in the medical records, it was

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:54

completely a failed epidural.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:55

So when I had forceps, it was very painful.

AMY LOOPER: 00:15:58

Like very physically traumatic!

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:01

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:01

And so, you know, they brought, and then they brought in all these medical

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:04

students because they thought that this was a really cool procedure.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:08

But on the mum, on the patient, it was extremely traumatic because I'm

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:12

trying for hours to have this baby and to progress the birth and then have

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:17

all of these people in there and then kind of having your spouse kind of

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:20

like, "Oh, you're good, you're fine!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:22

You know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:23

And it was like, "No, I'm not fine!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:25

You know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:26

So what I would say is if you're a spouse listening and your wife

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:30

is telling you, the mother is telling you like, "I am not fine.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:34

This was really traumatic," believe her because it is.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:39

And if that's their experience, that's their experience.

VIKKI: 00:16:42

Oh my goodness.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:43

Um, so yeah, so that was a position I was in there!

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:45

And so I ended up having P.T.S.D.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:47

for four and a half years, um, because I just, I felt dismissed.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:51

We had other stuff going on.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:52

We were just trying to keep careers going and everything else.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:55

So I didn't really take care of it right away.

AMY LOOPER: 00:16:57

But eventually really started to work on like E.M.D.R.

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:01

therapy, worked on my own leadership internally of emotion management, and

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:06

really started to process through a lot of those big traumatic events.

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:10

And I just needed to give myself space to do that, to recognise these things happen.

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:15

Um, but you can process through it and get to the other side.

VIKKI: 00:17:19

So for anybody listening that doesn't know what P.T.S.D.

VIKKI: 00:17:22

and E.D.M.R.

VIKKI: 00:17:24

are, can you just explain a little bit about those please?

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:28

Yeah, so P.T.S.D.

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:29

is post-traumatic stress and it's your body's, uh, response

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:34

to a traumatic event, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:36

Oftentimes we hear of soldiers and folks like that, getting it after being in war.

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:42

It can also happen after traumatic, um, if you're in like a car accident

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:45

or some kind of, uh, or giving birth, traumatic birth injury.

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:49

I mean these things happen and it's just your body goes into fight or flight

AMY LOOPER: 00:17:54

mode and you're always in this constant anxiety and sometimes you get constant

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:00

reoccurring visions of the trauma.

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:02

So for me, I would always, like anytime, you know, we were intimacy

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:07

or anything like in the pelvic area would kind of like bring me back to

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:12

being in the birthing room again.

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:14

Or I'd have constant thoughts about it whenever I got stressed

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:17

throughout the day and I would automatically go back into reliving

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:20

that experience in my brain again.

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:22

And so you're just constantly stuck in this cycle of just reliving those moments.

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:27

And it's like your mind is just trying to process through it, but

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:31

you get stuck on just looking at it a certain way and dwelling on like the

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:37

pain of that situation versus just realizing like it happened in the

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:42

past, it's done and you're safe now.

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:46

And so you kind of have to retrain your brain into really realising

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:49

like "You're safe and you're okay" at this moment in time.

VIKKI: 00:18:53

And is it E.D.M.R?

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:56

Yeah, it's E.M.D.R.

AMY LOOPER: 00:18:58

and it's a type of, um, therapy where, they focus on just retraining

AMY LOOPER: 00:19:03

your brain on looking at different movements of a therapist's hand.

AMY LOOPER: 00:19:06

And it can kind of move you out of, just move your brain out of,

AMY LOOPER: 00:19:11

constantly reprocessing a certain memory and time that can be really,

AMY LOOPER: 00:19:15

really painful and you start to just kind of like move away from it.

AMY LOOPER: 00:19:18

So it's- it's a therapeutic method that's used.

VIKKI: 00:19:21

This is the one where you sort of follow the finger?

VIKKI: 00:19:25

And if I'm right in understanding this, it's allowing your brain to file

VIKKI: 00:19:30

away that traumatic memory in a way that can't keep repeating on a loop.

VIKKI: 00:19:35

You know, where you're getting these awful flashbacks.

AMY LOOPER: 00:19:36

You just kind of it in a box and put it in its place on the shelf.

AMY LOOPER: 00:19:40

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:19:40

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:19:41

So my goodness, wow- so many traumatic events from that, that birth.

VIKKI: 00:19:47

Having the epidural fail for a start, extremely painful, but also mentally.

VIKKI: 00:19:57

When you're going through that and you're expecting that moment

VIKKI: 00:20:00

of release and relief to then be told " We gotta carry on."

VIKKI: 00:20:05

you know, how did that make you feel?

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:08

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:08

I mean, you just felt "Oh my gosh."

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:10

At that point it's like, " We need to get the baby out.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:12

We need to get the baby out.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:13

And as long as she's safe, that's great."

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:15

But I have this picture of me holding Kimberly and, and I force a smile on,

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:19

but behind that was literally like, it was just seconds after she was, you know,

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:23

taken out and wrapped up and everything.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:26

looking at that picture now, I can just see the trauma was still, you

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:29

know, just like you're in shock.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:31

I remember holding her going, I'm so glad that you're out and you're safe.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:35

But I also, at the same time, I just forced a smile for a picture quick and

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:39

then I was like, "Get this baby off of me.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:41

I need her off of me now", because my body was processing all the pain.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:45

And I was like, I literally, um, you know, forceps kind of feel

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:49

like you're like a Halloween pumpkin, for lack of a better term.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:52

Like it's really a crazy experience.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:54

And so, processing all of that, it was like, "I can't deal with that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:58

I need to deal with me."

AMY LOOPER: 00:20:59

Like, "I need to make sure that I'm okay" and take a pause.

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:03

You know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:03

So if any of you have been in those traumatic experiences where you're like,

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:06

"I should love my baby and be all, all happy", it doesn't always happen that way.

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:11

And it's okay.

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:13

Because you are- you'll get past it and you'll eventually, get back into the

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:17

groove where you wanna snuggle your baby, but for a few minutes there, it's natural

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:21

for your body to just have the walls up and be like, "Everybody, get away!"

VIKKI: 00:21:25

It sounds like you're still in fight and flight mode.

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:28

Oh, totally.

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:29

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:21:30

And suddenly, you know, you're at your most vulnerable, and then

VIKKI: 00:21:34

a wave of medical students come in were you consulted about that?

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:41

I was asked, and this is where I kind of wish I, I knew more

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:44

about doulas at the time because, I was in labour that wasn't really

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:48

progressing and was like two hours in.

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:52

And I'm asked like real quick by the nurse at the top of a shoulder, as I'm trying

AMY LOOPER: 00:21:56

to like, you know, they're telling me to "Look in this mirror and push better!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:00

You had all this stuff going on and then you've got this nurse

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:03

asking me like, "Hey, would it be okay if the medical students came

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:07

in, like to watch the forceps?"

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:09

or whatever.

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:09

And I'm like, "Whatever.

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:11

I don't care!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:13

Right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:14

And so I feel like it was poor timing because just seeing as many

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:19

people that they brought in, like I thought, "oh, one or two, okay fine."

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:23

But then like I'm screaming like thinking, I'm literally screaming, I'm dying

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:27

as this stuff is happening, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:29

And then, I just saw all these people in there just looking, and I remember

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:33

seeing the horror on some of their faces because they're like looking at what

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:36

they're, you know, and I could see in the mirror what was happening and I was.

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:39

I was in horror.

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:40

Everybody was like, "Ugh!", you know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:42

And I'm like, "I'm dying!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:46

So it's this big traumatic thing where I feel like medical providers

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:50

really have an opportunity to think more about the patient.

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:56

Well, yes, we wanna learn from these things.

AMY LOOPER: 00:22:58

And I understand, I used to work with doctors all the time, like I understand

AMY LOOPER: 00:23:01

the medical side of it, but the patient's mental, health needs to be prioritised.

AMY LOOPER: 00:23:07

And we have gaps in our healthcare system for sure.

VIKKI: 00:23:12

My goodness.

VIKKI: 00:23:13

Yeah, absolutely.

VIKKI: 00:23:14

And what a thing for you to have experienced.

VIKKI: 00:23:18

You know, again, it's further invalidation of, you as an individual.

VIKKI: 00:23:23

And, just to make the point as well, that if you are traumatised by your

VIKKI: 00:23:28

birth, irrespective of whether there was a medical emergency, irrespective

VIKKI: 00:23:32

of whether your life was in danger or your baby's life was in danger.

VIKKI: 00:23:36

If it felt traumatic to you.

VIKKI: 00:23:38

That is a traumatic birth and you are entitled to get support

VIKKI: 00:23:44

to help process that trauma.

VIKKI: 00:23:46

And it is not your fault if you are struggling to get beyond that experience.

VIKKI: 00:23:52

But you know, again, you are living proof that you can move on from

VIKKI: 00:23:56

something as painful as that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:23:58

Very well said.

AMY LOOPER: 00:23:59

Vikki, like if you're traumatised, that it, it's true.

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:03

Like you have been traumatised, but you can get through it.

VIKKI: 00:24:06

and your partner, because obviously he witnessed

VIKKI: 00:24:11

a very traumatic event of that.

VIKKI: 00:24:13

He was also still processing the grief and all the mixed emotions that come

VIKKI: 00:24:19

with losing his mother, is that right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:22

Both parents.

VIKKI: 00:24:24

Both parents.

VIKKI: 00:24:25

So wow, how was his mental health at the time as well?

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:30

Yeah, at that point, I think it was, those deaths happened

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:34

after Emberly's birth and so, you know, we, or no, it was in between,

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:37

I'm sorry, it was in between.

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:39

So he was not really there emotionally.

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:41

I would say very emotionally distant, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:44

Where it's just kind of discounting the trauma, "oh this?

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:47

You know, you're okay.

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:48

Like, it wasn't that big- it's over with" right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:50

Um, so it's just one of those things where now he recognises you know,

AMY LOOPER: 00:24:55

after a lot of work that we've done as a couple, recognising that those

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:00

things, are real and that your spouse really needs support, um, emotionally,

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:07

you know, during these times for sure.

VIKKI: 00:25:10

So when you first came home with your new daughter.

VIKKI: 00:25:15

Was Aiva a toddler at the time?

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:18

Yeah, she was, two.

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:19

They're two years apart.

VIKKI: 00:25:20

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:25:20

So she was kind of probably just about able to get a sense of, "Oh

VIKKI: 00:25:26

my goodness, I'm a big girl now.

VIKKI: 00:25:28

You know, I'm a big sister."

VIKKI: 00:25:29

How was returning home for you after such a, a terrifying experience?

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:37

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:37

I really kind of put it away in a box for a while.

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:40

Um, you know, I put it away in a box, just kind of kept going again.

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:45

We went through the same thing with Emberly, the tongue tie

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:47

experience, but at least this time I knew how to deal with that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:51

Uh, and then, you know, then I realised just like how big of a deal it was.

AMY LOOPER: 00:25:56

And then I, I just said, "You know what, I, I can't keep going

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:00

in the corporate world and doing all this without some help."

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:03

So that's when I started to do some E.M.D.R.

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:05

therapy.

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:06

Um, but for a lot of years I think I carried the burden of all of

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:10

it, um, including what happened in our family, like on my shoulders.

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:15

And I didn't, I didn't give myself credit, um, for the fact that maybe

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:20

there was some neglect going on.

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:22

And so that really kind of presented itself over the last couple of years.

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:26

I'm like, "Okay, no, I'm gonna actually take my power back and

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:29

realise we've been carrying a lot of stuff and I need a break", you know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:34

I think when moms start to realize they're worth and that they are worthy

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:39

for, you know, prioritising their health, mental and physical, I think that's a

AMY LOOPER: 00:26:43

big turning point in anybody's recovery.

VIKKI: 00:26:47

Wow.

VIKKI: 00:26:47

Again, this is all resonating hugely.

VIKKI: 00:26:50

And yeah, certainly the episode that's gone live of Blue MumDays with, uh, the

VIKKI: 00:26:56

phenomenal Christina Brown of Motivational Mums Club, and she talks about same

VIKKI: 00:27:02

issues, about giving yourself grace and just giving yourself time to be still

VIKKI: 00:27:08

and to process and to just stop for a moment of, you know, being the one that's

VIKKI: 00:27:13

supporting everybody and doing everything for everybody else, but give yourself

VIKKI: 00:27:17

time and self care because, you know, you, you you're doing an awful lot.

VIKKI: 00:27:23

And I do feel that we as mums tend to put ourselves last,

AMY LOOPER: 00:27:29

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:27:30

In terms of the hierarchy of needs in the family.

AMY LOOPER: 00:27:34

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:27:35

So did you feel that you were coming down with postpartum

VIKKI: 00:27:42

illness immediately again?

VIKKI: 00:27:44

Or did it feel different this time because it was actually P.T.S.D?

AMY LOOPER: 00:27:48

Yeah, it felt like P.T.S.D.

AMY LOOPER: 00:27:50

for sure.

AMY LOOPER: 00:27:51

And then, um, just a heightened like anxiety, which really manifested over

AMY LOOPER: 00:27:56

the years into just kind of an anxiety, you know, symptoms of anxiety and

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:01

excess worry that carried into my work.

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:04

And then, at the beginning of, um, 2020, you know, I had an amazing career

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:09

with a global cybersecurity firm.

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:12

And I was, you know, kicking butt on the performance and the revenue performance,

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:17

but I wasn't really managing the emotional side of it, and I wasn't really

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:20

managing, you know, the stress between, um, you know, colleagues and just always

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:26

having to be on -busy, busy, busy.

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:28

And so, you know, in March of 2020, it was like we parted ways and I did

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:34

not go back into the corporate grind.

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:36

I said, "You know what?"

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:37

And even my husband was like, "Let's support you in giving you space to create

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:42

what you wanna create and really align with what you really want to do as a mum."

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:48

Because as a mum you just change.

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:51

You know, some women change more than others, but you, you know, your,

AMY LOOPER: 00:28:55

your, um, your desires often change, your identity kind of just shifts a

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:01

little bit, once you become a mum.

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:02

And your requirement in life changes- obviously you have human beings to raise.

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:06

So I really contribute the journey through entrepreneurialism in saving my own life.

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:12

It really helps me get back into that creation zone and

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:16

have the space to work on mental wellness and giving myself grace.

VIKKI: 00:29:23

Wow.

VIKKI: 00:29:23

So you, you've been in a seismic shift then, you know, with the

VIKKI: 00:29:27

pandemic- was this feeling happening before the pandemic?

VIKKI: 00:29:32

Or did that exacerbate your decision to say "Right enough- I'm, I'm

VIKKI: 00:29:37

coming off the hamster wheel."

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:40

For me, the pandemic didn't really affect it, um, because

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:43

it was right at the cusp of that, but it all kind of came together, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:46

The world events kind of met with like all the craziness that had been happening

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:51

in my life over the last few years.

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:53

So it was really you know, divine timing to be able to support in that

AMY LOOPER: 00:29:57

way because then soon after, of course, school shut down and everything else.

AMY LOOPER: 00:30:01

So that flexibility was such a blessing on our family.

VIKKI: 00:30:05

Gosh.

VIKKI: 00:30:06

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:30:07

Every time I hear you speak.

VIKKI: 00:30:08

I just think, my gosh, there's so many questions I have, you know,

VIKKI: 00:30:11

and that I want to, to cover off.

VIKKI: 00:30:13

I think one of the really interesting points you made just then is about

VIKKI: 00:30:19

how you change your priorities, change your perceptions of what is

VIKKI: 00:30:24

important and what is not important in life changes when you become a mum.

VIKKI: 00:30:29

And do you think a lot of very career focused women actually find that a, a sort

VIKKI: 00:30:35

of rude awakening when they have their family in terms of that change, you know,

VIKKI: 00:30:40

that they aren't that person anymore.

AMY LOOPER: 00:30:43

Yeah, I do.

AMY LOOPER: 00:30:45

And a lot of my clients, uh, that I coach now come from that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:30:49

They either come from high performance careers in selling, or maybe they're

AMY LOOPER: 00:30:54

in a C- level executive kind of, um, position or heading towards that

AMY LOOPER: 00:30:59

position because they're just, um, either really, you know, if you look at the

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:02

quadrants of the personality, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:04

You have people that are controllers, promoters, some people that are

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:07

supporters and very analytical.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:09

And a lot of the folks that are kind of that 'controller

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:12

promoter' style just really thrive.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:15

Their energy thrives on achievements and, you know, um, doing

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:20

really amazing things in life.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:23

And so they put a lot of extra pressure on themselves to get to that next level.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:28

And I think motherhood sometimes can be a really hard shift because

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:32

as a mother, what do you do?

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:33

You're a supporter.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:35

You have to really get in there and like, You know, be there for your kids.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:39

You kind of have to really flex to whatever mood and personality you're

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:43

trying to work through with your children.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:45

And if you're on a conference call trying to do that with the kids and

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:48

different things, right, then it can be really, really overwhelming.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:52

Um, because you kind of just have this sense of, well, I'm

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:55

not doing what I should be doing in the corporate world, 110%.

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:58

Right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:31:59

Um, and so working through some of those feelings and really understanding

AMY LOOPER: 00:32:04

what do I want as a mum, oftentimes that question I think comes up with a

AMY LOOPER: 00:32:08

lot of people during that transition.

VIKKI: 00:32:11

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:32:12

And I think as well there, there's so many women that go on maternity leave

VIKKI: 00:32:18

and think, "Okay, I'm gonna go back into work sort of within X amount of months".

VIKKI: 00:32:24

Um, But then the whole world's view changes when they have their

VIKKI: 00:32:31

their baby and, and some feel "Yep absolutely, you know, can't

VIKKI: 00:32:34

wait to get back into, work mode."

VIKKI: 00:32:37

Um, and others actually completely change what they want out of life

VIKKI: 00:32:42

when they, they have their child.

VIKKI: 00:32:45

But I think you are absolutely right and this, this whole sort of

VIKKI: 00:32:49

work . Culture that we have in the 21st century where you are always 'on'.

VIKKI: 00:32:55

You know, you've gotta work harder, faster, have a side hustle, do

VIKKI: 00:33:00

all these things, have a great profile, build your brand.

VIKKI: 00:33:05

It's all about achievement and, you know, being the best, the fastest,

VIKKI: 00:33:09

having the most amount of likes, having the best social media profile.

VIKKI: 00:33:13

And when you are a mum you don't have accreditation like that.

VIKKI: 00:33:18

You know, nobody says to you at the end of the day, "You did really

VIKKI: 00:33:21

well today by just surviving."

VIKKI: 00:33:24

You know, you've had four and a half hours of sleep.

VIKKI: 00:33:28

You have had multiple nappy clothes changes, you've been

VIKKI: 00:33:32

puked on five times today.

VIKKI: 00:33:35

Do you know what I mean?

VIKKI: 00:33:36

You know, getting out the house was a massive achievement, but

VIKKI: 00:33:39

nobody says anything like that.

VIKKI: 00:33:41

You know, there's no sense of appreciation or validation for

VIKKI: 00:33:48

how hard you're working as a mum.

AMY LOOPER: 00:33:51

Yeah, yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:33:52

It's just kind of expected, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:33:54

It's like we all want careers and society as the two, you know, working household,

AMY LOOPER: 00:34:00

um, which I'm nothing against at all.

AMY LOOPER: 00:34:02

We, we do that in my household.

AMY LOOPER: 00:34:04

But yeah, the recognition isn't always there and sometimes, you know, it

AMY LOOPER: 00:34:08

get, it gets better when your kids get older and they can actually talk

AMY LOOPER: 00:34:11

and tell you how grateful they are.

AMY LOOPER: 00:34:13

And they do, especially when they're little.

AMY LOOPER: 00:34:15

But um, yeah, nobody tells you like, "Mum, that was a great diaper change today!"

VIKKI: 00:34:20

Yeah, you really smashed that out the park!

AMY LOOPER: 00:34:22

Says that

VIKKI: 00:34:24

Well, I, you know, I even remember when I was in the throes of postnatal

VIKKI: 00:34:27

depression, starting like a little bullet point list of all the things I

VIKKI: 00:34:33

did in this one particular day because I felt so much of a failure as a mum.

VIKKI: 00:34:39

And I remember months later finding that list and there was about 30 things on it.

VIKKI: 00:34:45

You know, it's like, I went for an hour and a half long walk.

VIKKI: 00:34:48

I went to a baby group that I didn't want to go to because I didn't want to leave

VIKKI: 00:34:52

the house, you know, and all these things.

VIKKI: 00:34:55

I looked back and I just thought, my God, you know, I was overachieving and still

VIKKI: 00:35:00

feeling useless and you know, that is part of what the illness does to you, isn't it?

VIKKI: 00:35:05

It robs you of your sense of self-esteem.

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:09

Yeah, it does.

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:10

And so if you can kind of, You know, the thing that helped me bring me back to

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:14

really myself and not getting caught up in the hustle culture that you just

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:19

explained, was really making sure that I was getting like the 10 to 15 minutes with

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:25

each one of my children, one-on-one, to really be present- like turning off the

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:31

cell phone, not paying attention to all the things, the lists in your head, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:35

The model lists of the 'to-dos' and really like just playing with them.

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:40

And then I started to really heal through that and I started to realise

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:44

"Okay, if I'm consistently being present with my kids, I feel more valuable.

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:47

I'm getting like that mum time that I need and they need from me."

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:52

And then I really started down this journey of exploring 'what do you really

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:57

want?' and being truthful to myself.

AMY LOOPER: 00:35:59

Not just giving people what I thought they wanted to hear or

AMY LOOPER: 00:36:03

what I thought was right to hear.

AMY LOOPER: 00:36:05

But really like standing in my power of my own truth of like, "actually I don't

AMY LOOPER: 00:36:12

wanna sell in this environment . I don't want to do this corporate job right now.

AMY LOOPER: 00:36:17

Like maybe at some point in the future, but like for this season, I'm gonna be

AMY LOOPER: 00:36:21

really super raw and honest and live it."

AMY LOOPER: 00:36:24

Because it's one time- you get one shot at this!

VIKKI: 00:36:28

Oh, wow.

VIKKI: 00:36:29

You know, you are really speaking to me!

VIKKI: 00:36:32

Um, because again, I, you know, very different circumstances, but I

VIKKI: 00:36:37

definitely re-evaluated what I wanted out of life and what gave me joy.

VIKKI: 00:36:42

And I left quite a high stress, pressure job.

VIKKI: 00:36:47

And whilst there was elements of it I loved, you know, it was just really

VIKKI: 00:36:50

impacting on my work life balance.

VIKKI: 00:36:52

And I'm so much happier now.

VIKKI: 00:36:54

And you know, funnily enough, creating this podcast and sharing

VIKKI: 00:36:59

incredible stories like yours, this is what's making my heart sing.

VIKKI: 00:37:02

You know, this means more to me than winning any awards for creative work.

VIKKI: 00:37:07

This feels so much more important.

VIKKI: 00:37:09

And, um, yeah, I'm very privileged that you chose to share your story with us.

VIKKI: 00:37:14

So thank you for that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:15

Yeah you're welcome, thanks for having me.

VIKKI: 00:37:18

I mean, gosh, so many different things I want to ask you about.

VIKKI: 00:37:21

Um, so with this big change, was your partner supportive of that?

VIKKI: 00:37:26

Because I mean, your identity was all wrapped up in your career

VIKKI: 00:37:30

for such a long time and, and all the achievements of your career.

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:35

He was, in fact, I will say.

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:37

And it was shocking that he kind of led, led that a little bit and really

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:41

encouraged me, like "You're not happy."

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:43

You know, he'd ask me, "Are you happy?"

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:45

I'm like, "Oh yeah, no, I'm happy!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:46

Right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:46

I'm in sales, I'm really good at selling myself on like, things!

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:52

And he's like, "No, you're not, you're not happy at all."

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:54

And it was like, "Oh, okay.

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:56

I'm not", but I didn't know.

AMY LOOPER: 00:37:58

I Like, at that point- and this was two years ago- like, I literally

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:01

would stand there and I'd be in...

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:03

I went through a leadership training, shortly after becoming an entrepreneur.

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:08

And one of the questions was like, "What do you want?"

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:11

And I couldn't answer it.

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:13

I was a blank wall going, "I have no clue what I want."

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:18

And it was there, it was in there the whole time, but it really took a long

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:22

time to like get all the layers off to really recognise it myself, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:27

Because I was so caught in my brain of like, "what do I need to do?

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:31

We have bills," you know, like "I have a career, we got..."

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:34

you know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:34

All the things that you think about.

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:36

But it took a long time to really figure that out, like months.

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:40

And then finally realised "okay, it's actually in your journey, in your story

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:45

that everything kind of comes together into what you're supposed to do."

AMY LOOPER: 00:38:48

And so that's why I'm doing what I do now.

VIKKI: 00:38:51

So did you have a Eureka moment where you suddenly had

VIKKI: 00:38:53

an epiphany of like, "Wow!

VIKKI: 00:38:55

This is my calling, this is what I want to do"?

VIKKI: 00:38:58

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:38:58

And it was really relieving of like I had to go through, if I didn't go through all

VIKKI: 00:39:02

of those things, I couldn't relate to as many people as I am able to impact now.

VIKKI: 00:39:07

And so now I can get such a bigger impact.

VIKKI: 00:39:10

Um, you know, I work with women all over the globe.

VIKKI: 00:39:14

I work with corporations as well, and so like the best of both worlds of

VIKKI: 00:39:18

really just helping people through some of those difficult times and

VIKKI: 00:39:22

employers learning what, how they can really support working mothers because

VIKKI: 00:39:27

working mothers are not going away.

VIKKI: 00:39:29

We're going to continue to have careers and do really amazing things in both

VIKKI: 00:39:33

professional and personal lives.

VIKKI: 00:39:35

And so how can we really support that?

VIKKI: 00:39:38

I think that's such an important thing because something I've banged on

VIKKI: 00:39:41

about in the past when I'm speaking at events is about, you know, the value

VIKKI: 00:39:45

of the working mom and how giving birth doesn't make you less good at your job.

VIKKI: 00:39:51

It actually makes you better at your job because you're so productive.

VIKKI: 00:39:54

You're so focused when you are in that' work' frame of mind.

VIKKI: 00:39:59

And, you know, think of all the skills like multitasking, negotiation skills.

VIKKI: 00:40:04

If you've negotiated with a toddler, you can deal with any difficult

VIKKI: 00:40:08

per personality in the workplace!

VIKKI: 00:40:10

And it's really important that our employers actually give us the credit

VIKKI: 00:40:15

we deserve and give us the support we need and the flexibility we might need

VIKKI: 00:40:19

in order to, to do our best for them and do the best for our families as well.

AMY LOOPER: 00:40:24

Yeah, Most definitely.

VIKKI: 00:40:26

So tell us a bit about the work that you are doing.

VIKKI: 00:40:28

It means an awful lot to you and I love the fact, again- like so many

VIKKI: 00:40:33

of my other guests- you are taking what was a very negative experience

VIKKI: 00:40:37

and a very painful experience, but you've created something incredibly

VIKKI: 00:40:41

empowering and positive out of that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:40:45

Yeah, yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:40:45

It's been amazing to create it and share my stories, with folks because

AMY LOOPER: 00:40:50

once you share your story, you know, I think, I think this was one of the

AMY LOOPER: 00:40:53

blessings from the pandemic, is that people are starting to really put

AMY LOOPER: 00:40:56

focus and value around mental wellness.

AMY LOOPER: 00:40:58

And so it's removing the stigma from, um, you know, a lot of mothers have

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:04

gone through these things, but they have, really felt like they had to

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:07

suffer in silence and not use their voice and not share their stories.

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:12

You know, a very close family member of mine even said, "You can't ever share

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:15

your story, you're gonna hurt someone."

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:17

And it's like, no, actually we should share our stories because it brings

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:21

together community, and we're all in this together so we can support

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:25

and understand that, postpartum depression and anxiety happens.

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:29

It is not anything that you should feel guilty or shameful for at all, and you

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:34

really cannot control and prevent it.

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:36

Like if it's going to to come on for whatever reason, we can

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:41

rarely be in our best health.

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:42

But those are the kind of things that I do is I help really raise awareness

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:47

around postpartum depression and anxiety.

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:50

Um, and when women are going through it.

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:53

Or they, maybe they've gone through it and it's could be a couple of

AMY LOOPER: 00:41:56

years later that they don't really recognise that that's what it was or

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:00

what they're continuing to experience.

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:02

Um, you know, we really help break them through.

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:05

So I have a programme that really helps, you know, support them and

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:08

breaks them through within, um, a very quick amount of time, like within

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:12

even just a few months, to be able to, you know, redesign their vision.

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:17

And even sometimes they have to spend some time creating a vision because maybe they

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:21

have neglected that space in their life.

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:24

And I also work with a lot of entrepreneurs where, you know, we're

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:27

doing things like helping build businesses and helping entrepreneurs,

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:31

uh, working mums really break through to their next performance level.

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:37

And so there's both that leadership and that revenue growth performance,

AMY LOOPER: 00:42:40

um, that's part of it as well.

VIKKI: 00:42:42

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:42:43

And I think it's a lot of, previously successful women, um, that returning

VIKKI: 00:42:50

to work after having a child can be- especially having suffered

VIKKI: 00:42:54

perinatal illness or anxiety- it can be really frightening and daunting

VIKKI: 00:42:59

about sort of stepping back into that world and how that's going to go.

VIKKI: 00:43:03

So are you sort of helping mums back into that workplace?

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:08

Most definitely.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:09

Most definitely.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:11

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:11

And figuring out what that looks like for them.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:13

Right.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:14

Because I think that's the turning point, and that's the greatest opportunity

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:17

you have, is to really, you know, return to something that you want to

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:21

do and that you feel empowered to do.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:24

Because motherhood will become heavy at some points.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:28

It is an extra responsibility, and so your energy as an individual will be so

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:34

much higher and so much more effective in any workplace, whether it's for

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:38

someone else or for your own business when you're totally aligned to it.

VIKKI: 00:43:42

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:43:43

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:43:43

And you've got your voice and you're not afraid to step into your power.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:48

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:43:48

And obviously I'm absolutely fascinated from the point of

VIKKI: 00:43:52

view that your experience is very much about the, perinatal mental

VIKKI: 00:43:56

health system within America.

AMY LOOPER: 00:43:59

Mm-hmm.

VIKKI: 00:44:00

I mean, I do think, you know, over here the N.H.S., there is a five

VIKKI: 00:44:05

year program where there is a lot of investment in terms of like mother and

VIKKI: 00:44:08

baby units, which are much, much needed.

VIKKI: 00:44:11

But there are still an awful lot of women and, you know, men because one in

VIKKI: 00:44:15

10 dads develops postpartum depression.

VIKKI: 00:44:19

Um, that there's still a lot of people that are falling through the cracks.

VIKKI: 00:44:24

There is still a lot of misunderstanding, there are still a lot of myths and,

VIKKI: 00:44:28

and stigma surrounding PND and related illnesses, um, that, you know, you

VIKKI: 00:44:34

somehow "brought it upon yourself" or it's something you can control.

VIKKI: 00:44:38

And it's not, it's totally indiscriminate.

VIKKI: 00:44:40

What is the belief system attached to postpartum over in America?

AMY LOOPER: 00:44:47

Yeah, yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:44:47

I, I still think there's a big gap there.

AMY LOOPER: 00:44:49

Um, there's a lot of stigma still around, um, you know, Postpartum depression

AMY LOOPER: 00:44:55

being, being, uh, of importance.

AMY LOOPER: 00:44:57

And the reason why I say that, even though it is coming up more in our current,

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:02

um, government administration, there's, there's some different bills out there

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:05

that they're trying to pass to support, uh, maternal mental health in general.

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:10

Um, and, and there's definitely some programs, um, you know,

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:14

with, with folks on Medicaid and, and some of these different...

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:17

Um, in government funded programs to support more like postpartum touches,

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:23

whether that be communication from your doctor via phone call or text

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:27

messaging in different, ways, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:30

But there's still a big gap.

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:32

And there's a big gap with women, especially professional women.

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:36

Who are not necessarily on those types of healthcare programs, and they're

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:40

using, you know, private insurance and, there's just not support

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:44

unless you go and seek it yourself.

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:46

And so that's where the education piece comes in.

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:49

And, um, you know, when you're going through prenatal classes,

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:54

postpartum depression is sometimes touched on, not always.

AMY LOOPER: 00:45:58

And if it is touched on, it's a very light level.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:01

And so if the education isn't necessarily consistent, and then within

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:06

the healthcare - you know, OB- GYNs and obstetrics, there's more and more

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:10

education happening for those doctors.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:14

And there's a big focus on trying to educate them because even in med school,

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:17

they spend less than 30 minutes actually learning about perinatal mood disorders.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:24

And yeah, that was eye-opening.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:27

I mentored with, Dr.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:28

Shoshana Bennett, um, who is one of the top perinatal,

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:31

psychologists in, in the world.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:33

And she just so happens to live near me and we were able to form a, you

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:38

know, a mentor mentorship partnership.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:40

And when she mentioned that statistic only 30 minutes or less in their

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:45

whole education around perinatal mood disorders, I was just shocked.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:50

But it explained my own experience going through a traumatic birth.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:55

And I thought, well, this is why.

AMY LOOPER: 00:46:56

They're just, they just don't realise you know.

AMY LOOPER: 00:47:00

It's not intentional, but it's an outcome that's unfortunately happening because

AMY LOOPER: 00:47:04

they're just so focused on the outcome of birth rates and, and things like that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:47:09

So,

VIKKI: 00:47:11

And o obviously, you know, for any healthcare professional,

VIKKI: 00:47:14

my, my goodness, they're so stretched and they have so much...

AMY LOOPER: 00:47:17

so stretched.

VIKKI: 00:47:18

...so much pressure and responsibility.

VIKKI: 00:47:21

So we're absolutely not, um, accusing them of things.

VIKKI: 00:47:26

But I think there is hopefully room to better educate how, you

VIKKI: 00:47:31

know, damaging words can be and how damaging, um, not being validated

VIKKI: 00:47:37

in the birth experience can be.

VIKKI: 00:47:39

And it isn't just affecting the, the birthing mother, it's

VIKKI: 00:47:45

affecting the whole family potentially, including the children.

VIKKI: 00:47:48

And something in the U.K.

VIKKI: 00:47:49

I know we're looking now more at the effect on the family

VIKKI: 00:47:52

rather than a single individual.

VIKKI: 00:47:54

And that can have ramifications, you know, going on for years.

VIKKI: 00:47:59

So it is really important to make the birth as caring and

VIKKI: 00:48:04

compassionate as possible.

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:06

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:07

And then, and then just forming the communities right, for the support

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:10

as we don't expect, um, you know, surgeons and OB-GYNS to really be

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:16

able to just carry on that kind of support with their patients long term.

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:20

But being able to bring in resources regularly.

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:23

And there's a big shortage of those resources in the United States right

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:27

now for, um, mental wellness overall, let alone a very specific niche of,

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:34

you know, perinatal mental wellness.

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:36

So as that continues to grow, I think we'll see better outcomes,

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:39

but there's definitely a need for more folks to focus on it.

VIKKI: 00:48:43

And you were saying that there's, a gap in terms of private insurance.

VIKKI: 00:48:47

So because obviously, you know, we have the N.H.S.

VIKKI: 00:48:50

over here, but in America you have to pay for all your medical care, is that right?

VIKKI: 00:48:55

Or you take out insurance for it?

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:58

Right.

AMY LOOPER: 00:48:58

You have, and then you have, um, it covers a portion of it, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:02

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:49:03

And so a lot of people are having to pay private insurance.

VIKKI: 00:49:07

So if they seek support, again, there's a financial burden?

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:13

Yeah, definitely.

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:13

So, you know, you'll have, um, some providers that accept insurance and some

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:18

providers are electing not to accept insurance anymore, and it's private pay.

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:23

So either way there will be a cost, whether either through a

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:25

deductible, um, you know, payment, co-pays and things like that through

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:30

insurance or it's just private pay.

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:31

And oftentimes, you know, it's, there's not a lot of difference

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:35

depending on your plan.

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:36

So, yeah, there's definitely a financial burden.

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:39

It's not just, it's not just covered, yeah.

VIKKI: 00:49:42

And what about the mums that are from less privileged backgrounds,

VIKKI: 00:49:46

who, you know, that sort of financial cost- it's just, they cannot prioritise

VIKKI: 00:49:53

spending that much on themselves.

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:56

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:49:56

I mean there, so over 75% of women never actually, um, seek help

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:03

for postpartum depression, uh, which is in the United States.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:08

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:08

So it's a big percentage.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:10

And oftentimes, just like my story, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:12

When you first have your baby, you're just trying to take care of your baby.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:16

You don't have time or you don't feel like you have time, to be able

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:19

to prioritise some of these things.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:21

Um, unless it's a really big mental health event that maybe requires, you

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:27

know, hospitalisation or immediate care.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:30

Um, but, um, you know, in these other instances, oftentimes

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:33

it lingers for many years.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:35

But we have to keep in mind that if you've, if you've had a baby and now

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:38

you're struggling with depression, anxiety at any point in your motherhood,

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:42

not just a year after having a baby, but at any point it is postpartum.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:47

So, you know, postpartum depression anxiety can really linger and

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:50

manifest into different things.

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:52

You might see that your marriage, you know, for us it was like big

AMY LOOPER: 00:50:56

red flags when career and marriage started to really kind of break down.

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:00

It was like, "Okay, we need to go figure some things out," uh, on both parties.

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:05

But for me it was really kind of figuring out and, and working

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:09

through some of the traumas that had happened early on, um, giving birth.

VIKKI: 00:51:14

Thank you so much for, for being, you know, talking

VIKKI: 00:51:16

about it with such honesty.

VIKKI: 00:51:19

One thing that I know when we chatted previously, when we first talked

VIKKI: 00:51:23

before arranging the interview, you also talked about you had been

VIKKI: 00:51:28

visiting women in shelters who were homeless and who were having babies.

VIKKI: 00:51:33

And it was quite an eye-opening experience for you, wasn't it?

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:37

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:38

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:38

It was really interesting.

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:40

Um, there's a, you know, a few women's shelters here in the

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:44

Phoenix, Arizona area, and I, um, was able to talk to a few of them.

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:49

And you know what?

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:50

I, it was so amazing to see how self-aware these women were, and

AMY LOOPER: 00:51:56

they were going through, you know, traumatic experiences, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:00

I mean, they're in a shelter just giving birth to a baby, and they don't

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:03

really have their own home, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:05

And there's probably a lot of uncertainty, um, in their lives.

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:09

But the self-awareness and accountability that each of them brought into the

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:14

conversation was just amazing and, uh, really left an impact on me thinking,

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:19

wow, you know, I, I came from.

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:22

Very, uh, you know, middle class, well off as far as, um, having a home and very

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:29

stable environment and things like that, financially and, just to realise that

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:34

there's people out there that really are dealing with a lot of these life changes.

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:39

And I was just, um, I was just blown away by their leadership.

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:42

They were really good leaders, I felt like in that group.

VIKKI: 00:52:45

So what would you like to see being done in order to improve the system?

VIKKI: 00:52:52

If you had three sort of magic wishes, um, for making change in America?

AMY LOOPER: 00:52:59

Well, I think we need, you know, in prenatal education,

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:02

I think we need to have, you know, just like we have big focus on, um,

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:07

you know, uh, lactation consulting, breastfeeding, all of those kind of

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:11

issues, sleep, um, uh, sleeping patterns and, and different things like that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:16

I think we need to really incorporate education around perinatal

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:21

mood disorders, um, into it.

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:24

So that's number one.

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:27

Um, and then number two, I think, you know, in, in corporate America, I

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:32

think we need to do more training for.

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:35

Uh, leaders and managers to really understand how we can best support

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:41

mothers because from the time that they give notice that they're pregnant,

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:46

that's oftentimes a very anxious time for a working mother because they don't,

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:50

they don't wanna let their team down.

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:52

They don't wanna, they're not sure are they gonna get fired.

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:55

Like, there's this misconceptions that have happened over the generations

AMY LOOPER: 00:53:58

that, "Oh my gosh, when should we tell our employer that we're

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:03

actually gonna be having a baby?"

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:04

And there's almost a shame that's brought up, right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:07

And I just think, gosh, this is not a shameful moment.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:09

And a lot of, a lot of leaders, um, you know, maybe, uh, perhaps you work

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:15

in a male dominated industry, and so it brings on extra pressure there.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:20

But when once you have the conversation, you may realize that you actually have

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:23

a lot more support than you think.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:25

So it's kind of helping both the employee and the employer come

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:28

together in a proactive way.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:31

In those kind of conversations and career planning.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:34

And then when they return to work, obviously, you know, supporting and making

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:38

sure that they're in the right position.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:40

And, uh, if they're returning to a high performance position, making

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:43

sure that they're, um, supported as they ramp back in to the workplace.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:48

Because after 12 weeks, we only take 12 weeks off or less- a lot of cases

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:53

people go back after six to eight weeks in America after having a baby.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:58

Oh yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:54:59

Oh yeah.

VIKKI: 00:55:00

My god!

VIKKI: 00:55:02

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:02

It's real.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:02

Right?

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:03

Right.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:03

So your body and your mind, like, it's like this, "We have a baby

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:08

and we have to get back at it."

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:10

It's not the healthiest of situations.

VIKKI: 00:55:12

That is really shocking.

VIKKI: 00:55:14

Because in the UK I would say it's more like six months to a year that

VIKKI: 00:55:18

you take off and even then you might not feel ready to go back to work.

VIKKI: 00:55:22

So wow, that's a huge adjustment.

VIKKI: 00:55:25

And then you're thrown back into work?

VIKKI: 00:55:26

That's very tough.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:28

But that's the reality on the American woman.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:31

Some people don't even have the maternity leave, um, because

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:35

of whatever their situation is.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:36

And so they feel like, oh, I'm just gonna go back after a few weeks.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:40

And oh, I, my heart goes out to them.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:43

I don't know how they do it.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:44

I really don't because your body is going through such physical

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:50

changes, you're, you're recovering.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:53

Um, and, and you also want time with your baby that you just gave birth to.

AMY LOOPER: 00:55:57

Like, you know, we kind of have these babies for a reason, and so, you know,

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:04

we want that time with them to form a bond with them and routines, et cetera.

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:10

So yeah, the American, uh, working mom, uh, really kind of shifts really

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:16

quick, um, back into this, uh, hustle culture to "just keep hustling.

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:22

Now it's hustle as a mum!"

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:23

But you have all these additional responsibilities.

VIKKI: 00:56:26

And again, it's that thing, you know, when we were told, oh, we can have

VIKKI: 00:56:30

it all actually, is that serving us?

VIKKI: 00:56:34

You know?

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:35

Exactly.

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:36

I often ask that question.

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:37

Careful what you wish for!

VIKKI: 00:56:39

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:56:39

At what cost.

VIKKI: 00:56:40

Yeah!

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:41

And then I think three, it's really standing in growing in personal

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:46

development in your own leadership.

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:47

When you are able to do that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:49

When I was able to do that over, even, you know, the different therapy

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:53

things that I did do, my breakthrough personally was in my own growth, in my

AMY LOOPER: 00:56:58

own leadership in my life and my marriage and myself and my career, and really being

AMY LOOPER: 00:57:04

authentic and truthful in what I wanted.

AMY LOOPER: 00:57:07

Um, and so that really, I think is a core component for mums in general.

AMY LOOPER: 00:57:12

I think maternal leadership, that's why I call myself a maternal

AMY LOOPER: 00:57:16

leadership coach because I think that that in itself is very powerful.

VIKKI: 00:57:22

Absolutely.

VIKKI: 00:57:23

And you know, one of the things that you, you touched on, uh, much earlier

VIKKI: 00:57:26

on in this interview is about how, you know, you do lose confidence in your

VIKKI: 00:57:32

ability to make decisions when you're suffering from perinatal illness.

VIKKI: 00:57:37

And I mean, that's the thing that I couldn't quite comprehend was how I

VIKKI: 00:57:43

supposedly on paper, fairly successful person within the TV industry was reduced

VIKKI: 00:57:49

to, you know, I couldn't make decisions.

VIKKI: 00:57:54

I couldn't trust my own instincts.

VIKKI: 00:57:57

Um, and I was totally reduced to a shadow of myself.

VIKKI: 00:58:00

And I think sort of as you say, stepping back into your power and having that

VIKKI: 00:58:06

confidence and also that self-awareness to say, actually, you know what,

VIKKI: 00:58:11

this is what I want out of of life.

VIKKI: 00:58:13

I think that is such an empowering thing.

VIKKI: 00:58:16

And, um, I love that you are sharing all of your expertise

VIKKI: 00:58:20

with fellow mums out there.

VIKKI: 00:58:22

If you had one message to say to yourself when you were really struggling, when you

VIKKI: 00:58:28

were going through it and when you had lost yourself, what, what would you say?

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:35

I would tell myself that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:39

You haven't lost yourself.

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:40

You're actually in there.

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:41

Read your heart, reconnect with your heart, because that never changes,

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:47

and it is always true to you.

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:49

And you have that.

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:50

So if you're looking for something, if you're looking for your power,

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:54

you don't have to look outside of yourself, you really can just

AMY LOOPER: 00:58:57

turn, tune in here and reconnect.

VIKKI: 00:59:01

Fabulous.

VIKKI: 00:59:02

And in terms of somebody who's going through it at the moment,

VIKKI: 00:59:07

what would you like to say to them?

AMY LOOPER: 00:59:11

Yeah.

AMY LOOPER: 00:59:11

That, you know, you're, you matter and you're, you're seen and you're heard.

AMY LOOPER: 00:59:17

You are not alone.

AMY LOOPER: 00:59:18

We have all gone through the darkness.

AMY LOOPER: 00:59:21

Um, and, and you can get your way to the light.

AMY LOOPER: 00:59:24

It doesn't have to be that you're gonna live the rest of your life, you know,

AMY LOOPER: 00:59:28

feeling sad, irritable, angry, um, lost.

AMY LOOPER: 00:59:32

You know, this, this is just a, a darker season that you can break through.

VIKKI: 00:59:38

Yeah.

VIKKI: 00:59:38

And, and you absolutely will come through and get to the other end.

VIKKI: 00:59:42

Thank you so much, Amy.

VIKKI: 00:59:44

You've been such an inspiring person to speak to and um, yeah, I love that

VIKKI: 00:59:49

you are, you are sort of spreading the, the goodness to other women.

VIKKI: 00:59:53

And I think the more we can share our stories and help each other up, society

VIKKI: 00:59:57

will be all the better for having more of us out there cheerleading.

AMY LOOPER: 01:00:01

Definitely.

AMY LOOPER: 01:00:02

Definitely.

AMY LOOPER: 01:00:02

Thank you Vikki for, um, hosting this podcast and having me on.

AMY LOOPER: 01:00:06

I appreciate it.

VIKKI: 01:00:07

I've absolutely loved chatting to you this afternoon.

VIKKI: 01:00:09

So, uh, thank you.

VIKKI: 01:00:11

And, uh, you were are so eloquent considering it's still early in the

VIKKI: 01:00:15

morning your end -must have been the waffle - the waffle and the Nutella!

AMY LOOPER: 01:00:20

Nutella waffles and coffee!

VIKKI: 01:00:23

That is, that's like every food group ticked.

AMY LOOPER: 01:00:26

Yeah, it's perfect!

VIKKI: 01:00:29

If you've enjoyed this episode of Blue MumDays, please like and

VIKKI: 01:00:33

subscribe It really does make the difference in helping other people find

VIKKI: 01:00:38

it and that means helping more parents.