Want to overcome mediocre marketing? Join Joshua Maddux has he talks with Andrea Susan Glass this week on In The Bunker Podcast.

Our episode highlights:

• Diversifying to overcome the inconsistency

Bio: Andrea Susan Glass is an award-winning ghostwriter and book coach for first-time nonfiction authors. For more than 20 years, she's ghostwritten dozens of books and copyedited hundreds of nonfiction books. As a book coach she's guided countless new authors to write and publish their book, some to bestseller status. Andrea is a long-time instructor for the University of California, teaching classes in the creative writing and copyediting certificate programs. She wrote the bestselling book, "Your Fabulous First Book: How to Write with Clarity, Confidence & Connection" to guarantee that new authors would have all the essential preparation to write their own fabulous first book. She’s followed that up with “My Fabulous First Book: A Workbook Companion to Your Fabulous First Book”. Learn more about Andrea and her book coaching programs at https://www.AndreaSusanGlass.com

Links:

• Website: https://www.WritersWay.com and https://www.AndreaSusanGlass.com
• IG: https://www.instagram.com/andreasusanglass/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreasusanglass/
• Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Andrea-Susan-Glass/e/B08SKLJZT7
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AndreaSusanGlass

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Welcome to in the bunker today, we have Andrea Susan Glass in

the bunker with us today, Andrew was faced with a challenge of inconsistency

in leads, clients and income.

If you own a business and run a business, you've probably ran into

this same problem as most new business owners and even seasoned veterans.

I have this problem.

She's overcome this challenge and really worked on, worked through

this issue by diversifying to really overcome the inconsistency.

Andrea has over 21 years experience in helping first time non-fiction authors and

business owners become published authors.

So many of us have amazing ideas and we want to, shout it from

the mountaintops, but oftentimes.

It's an idea in our head and it doesn't go anywhere.

Becoming a published author is such an awesome thing and helps so

many more other business owners.

There's so much to learn through this conversation.

And I'm super excited to just jump in and go from there.

Great to have you on the show.

Yes.

I'm so excited to be here.

Awesome.

So let's dive in and walk through, what is your background?

Who are you and how did you get here?

Really from, a business experience aspect.

Oh, sure.

I've been writing most of my life and I just never thought

I could make a living at it.

So I would write articles and I wrote for different newspapers and magazines.

And then I wrote a few books and I got an agent, but I never got a public.

So I thought, this is really hard and this is really sad

when you can't sell your books.

I thought, what if I wrote books for other people?

Cause I know how to write a book and I would get paid up front.

So I started ghostwriting in 2000.

That's what started my business writers way.

And I did very well at the start.

I won an award from the very first book I wrote.

And then I realized like we were talking about inconsistent income.

Copy editing to my services because sometimes someone came to me and the book

was already done and they didn't need a ghost writer, but they needed someone to

clean it up, which I loved doing as well.

So at a copy editing.

And after doing this for so many years, the urge inside of me to write

and publish books was still there.

But at this point as self-publishing grow, I didn't need to find a publisher anymore.

Made that firm decision that I was going to write books for myself.

And this year, 2021, I published my first two books.

It was a book about.

Write a book called your fabulous first book.

And then I had a workbook called my father's first book.

It was a workbook companion, and it's just very exciting to move from

the ghost writer to the copy editor.

I've also.

Taught classes for the university of California, which I still do.

And then I've also added book coach because I've learned

a lot from my experience.

So now I'm pretty much a full service business for first time.

Non-fiction authors to get from where they are to where they want to be.

That's awesome.

I know.

Oftentimes whenever we jump into any industry or tasks that

were super unfamiliar with.

Sometimes from the outward appearance, it's like writing a book.

Isn't that hard.

I got a bunch of words in my head.

I'll just throw them on paper.

And then you have to realize that like chapter breakdown and it has

to make sense and it has to follow a flow and there has to be, and it's oh,

this is actual, takes time to do it.

You can't just spend an afternoon and spit out a book.

And that's really where I think, whether someone is looking for.

A writer, coach, a book coach or someone that goes right,

or any of that type of stuff.

Having someone who understands that is, is super, super valuable.

Awesome.

So I know with, in regards to your business challenge and

chatting through essentially.

Aspect of inconsistently and looking at obviously, inconsistent

leads means inconsistent clients, which means inconsistent income.

And so many business owners struggle with this.

What does that look like for you?

Overcoming that and diversifying.

I know we talked about that briefly before.

Yeah.

Usually when we talk about overcoming a challenge, let's talk about the

challenge first, problem solution.

The problem for people like me, who I would call it creative

because I am a creative writer.

I'm a ghostwriter, I'm a copywriter, I'm a coach.

Those are fairly creative skills and the skill that.

Did not have when I went into business was marketing.

So my inconsistent income was.

It was a challenge.

My inconsistent leads was a challenge because I didn't

know how to market myself.

A lot of people like me will go into business with a skillset, whether it's a

holistic health practitioner, financial planner, or all kinds of coaches, because

they want to serve may have a skill.

And I want to share that space with a lot of people, but they

don't have business acumen.

They might not know how to set up a business.

They don't know how to run a business.

They don't know how to.

Their financials or their contracts.

And most of them don't how to run a business.

In terms of marketing creatives are more or less using right side of the brand.

And marketing is using the left side of the brand.

Although there are ways to be creative with marketing.

So we start off thinking, okay I ran an ad in the newspaper and I

got my first post writing client.

And from there you expect that there'll be more clients.

Maybe you did a great job.

So they'll tell us.

But they might not know anyone who needs someone to write a book.

Then you go to the chamber of commerce networking meeting, and you

think you might meet people there.

You start doing things that seem very common and familiar, but this is

definitely not a way to have consistent income because a lot of people like me

come out of a job where they're paid a salary and they know what consistent

income looks like, but when they go into business, They don't think

about the fact that there is no sense of consistency until you build up.

And there are people who might out of the gate have context

from their previous work.

A lot of people start a business and have context from the job they

had before, or they might prepare an advance before they start a business

and set up a lot of lead generation.

So I didn't do that and I didn't have that.

And I had.

Learn marketing basically from the ground up.

And one of the things I learned is that you have to try a lot of different

methods of marketing to see, which is going to work for your personality, for

your skills and for the client base.

You have.

Because not everybody is going to be comfortable with all kinds of marketing.

Some people are not going to be able to speak.

I've spoken in many places.

I've conducted workshops.

I hit half the libraries in San Diego county and done workshops with them.

So that's not something I'm uncomfortable with.

So you have to find what works for you, but it still doesn't necessarily

mean that you're going to have a li a lead generation machine.

It's going to bring your consistently it's.

One of the methods that worked for me was diversifying my skills that I offer.

I started out as a ghostwriter.

And I found that some people wanted the help, but they didn't want to pay the fee.

And that ghost writing is your most expensive fee that you're

going to charge because you're spending the most time doing it.

And it's also the hardest work.

I found that once I added copy editing, I was able to get a lot more clients.

And a lot of people that I met through writing groups, writing classes,

networking, lot of the different methods that I found from marketing.

Wanted a copy editor, whether I worked with them from the beginning or in

the middle or at the end, most of them usually come to me at the end.

I found that copied.

A more marketable skill than ghost writing.

So now I became a ghost writer and a copy editor.

Then the university of California contacted me.

They found me in one of the writers groups I belong to and asked if I

wanted to teach a class for them.

And my first class was called marketing for copy editors,

which is funny because I.

The best marketing person at that time, but I'm really good

at putting together classes.

And my class has been running for over 15 years right now, and it's been very

successful, but you know what they say, teach what you want to learn.

And every time I teach that class, I learned more about how to market myself.

After that, then I added.

So the diversification of what I offered in terms of services was able to allow

me more consistency of getting leads, because the more work you do for someone,

the more referrals you're going to get.

And then also the more groups you belong to, the more referrals

you get from the groups.

So the more exposure you give yourself, you expose yourself

in so many different ways.

It can be on social media.

It can be.

The work that you do, it could be writing groups can be getting out into

the world like we did primarily before COVID and now we're doing more of that.

So you start having the marketing work for itself in terms of.

Taking on a momentum.

And then this year I added author to my list of diversified skills, which

is a way to create consistent income.

Once you get your books really hooked in to a target market, once

people know about you, now that I have two books, I'm talking on more

podcasts, I'm doing live events.

I'm doing books on.

So your books can now be another source of income.

So I basically have five sources of income now, and that diversification

allows me to have more of a consistency.

I'm not going to lie.

It's still up and down.

A lot of times you have times of year when people are just not buying.

The holidays tend to be slow and yet there's some people I just had a client

who hired me and says, I want to get my book finished before December 31st.

That's not always correct that there's slower at the holiday time,

but even so if it's slow at the holiday time, a lot of people say

so sales or offer some specials.

So marketing is really the crux underneath.

All of this inconsistency.

And once you learn how to get your marketing going, let's

say consistent marketing.

Whereas every day I spend at least an hour a day doing some kind of

marketing, then you're going to create more of a consistency of leads.

And ultimately in.

That's really good.

Yeah.

And they're totally agree.

And I think that's something that so many business owners, if you own a

business and you don't consider yourself a marketer and you don't have either a

marketing company or someone who is in the company, depending on the size of

the business, if you don't have someone in the company or marketing company

that you're paying, or you're not considering yourself a marketer, then.

The long-term trajectory.

The longterm viability of that business, I would say is in question,

because if you're thinking, oh, I offer a product or alpha service

and I don't need to market it.

There are some industries where you don't necessarily quote, need to market

per se, because the demand is so high.

People are just going to show up no matter what, but if the.

Two years have taught us anything with pandemic and everything.

I think it's really prevalent that something little can change and

disrupt your industry, massively.

And I know, some writing coaches and stuff got super, super concerned when

platforms like Amazon came out where they could, you could self-publish.

And people got really freaked out.

They're like, anyone can write a book now it's anyone can, but

anyone can also be a mechanic and try to change the oil in their car.

Not everyone's going to succeed in it.

And so in reality, yes, anyone could self-publish driving that back to in

reality, someone who knows what they're doing and can help through that process.

And I think it's really interesting.

The book itself that you've published, the two almost are

a lead generation a little bit.

Because.

They're wedding, someone's appetite a little bit to publishing a book, and

you've now put out a book about how to do that, how to publish a book, how to do

that, what that looks like to create that.

And it almost, because you're the offer author of it.

It leads them back to you.

So if they have questions or they need help, or they want to hire someone to

help with that, it almost leads them.

It does lead them back to you.

So not only is that it's a twofold, it's a lead-generation aspect a little

bit, but it also does bring in income.

That's a good point, Joshua, because the people I

work with generally, small business owners, entrepreneurs, and solo

professionals, service professionals, like coaches, realtors, financial planners,

therapists, those people have a service.

And if they want to stand down.

They could do that by writing a book that will put them above others,

it will enhance their credibility.

If you had 10 real estate agents and they can also tell the same

homes, the one who's an author might stand out as more of an expert.

So the people I work with want to.

Expand their credibility and show their expertise to enhance their business.

But also it can be an additional source of income in know, like

we're talking about diversifying.

It can be a lead generator because they could hand out the books for free.

So that people could find out more about the service they

provide and then go to them.

And it also is a way to spread your expertise, your knowledge

and wisdom to thousands of people.

Whereas one-on-one, as a service provider, you can't reach that many

people, you have a limit, and we've heard this term for so many years.

Working for dollars or working for multiple income the dollar for dollar

meaning you're trading your time for dollars is when you're a service.

But a book is a product and a Burke literally sells while you're sleeping.

That's the exciting part of having a product.

So as I've added book, coach and author to my area of expertise and my services

and my products, so that I can have more of a diversified income, the same

is true for the people I work with.

It will give them more of that diversified income.

Less of that inconsistency and it just feels good when you see

your name on the cover of a book.

It's I don't know if there's anything that's not greater than

that, but it's pretty great.

Especially if you sweated through, I think it was almost a year and a half that

it took me to get to publish this book because of fitting time in while I was

working and learning the ins and outs of publishing and working with Amazon and.

And consistencies, shall we say?

And, getting on the phone with them.

So someone finally coming with a book with their name on it is such a great

reward for the time that you've put in.

And that's, what's so exciting for me too, in my business to have

the opportunity to serve people.

And I just want to put a note in here that's so important to remember

is that nobody runs a business.

A lot of us go into businesses solopreneurs and say, oh great.

I'm good at this.

And I'm going to start a business.

Whether it's the financial planner, the real estate

agent, or a book coach like me.

But we can't do it alone because we don't have all those skillsets and

whether or not we hire a marketer, we certainly can hire other people.

Whether we want employees or contractors.

I've worked with contractors.

I have my web design guy.

I have tech people.

I have my graphic designer.

I have my copy of.

And I have support people, accountability, partners.

So it seems like an isolated experience to write a book or

to run a business by yourself.

But no one should think that they can do it all themselves.

And that's really important that will also help counteract that

inconsistency because when we can reach out to other people, when we're

struggling and for me with marketing, I used books, courses, and coaches.

I have a book marketing coach, and I'm working with a business marketing coach.

So I can't do this all myself.

And I'm really glad that I was willing to reach out and understanding that

you have to you cannot do this alone.

No one can write a book alone or no one can run a business alone.

So that's really important advice that I like to share with people.

That's really good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I totally agree.

I think, and that's really.

The main sort of mindset behind this whole podcast is the aspect of so many

business owners at the end of the day.

Trapped themselves in a bunker for whatever ever reason.

And that might just be the doomsday bunker.

And they're trying to protect themselves from whatever happened

in their business five years ago.

Or, whatever reason they're sheltering themselves from risk or some

issue or whatever that might be.

And so many business owners Do that on a regular basis.

And I think it's so critical to really the success of any business to reach

out and have other people that are there for you and can simply bounce ideas.

If it's someone who's in a different industry, that's awesome.

Run ideas past someone else who is in a different industry who isn't

necessarily direct competition.

And you guys can be open about, Hey, I think that's a great

idea, or maybe not so much.

And having a business coach, having any of that type of stuff, someone who doesn't

necessarily a hundred percent of the time have all the right answers, but someone

who maybe can ask the right questions.

And I think that's really critical for businesses.

I just thought of another important point is that

people learn and people take in information in different formats.

Whatever service or product you're providing.

We have to think in terms of people who might be auditory, visual, or kinesthetic,

and as well as I was to put my first book, any book into paperback, cause

there's a lot of bells, a lot of detail.

I did that and now I'm thinking about an audio book because people.

Some people just they listen in their car or they go for a walk and they listen.

And next year I'm planning on developing two courses because you

can take my book and you can read it.

And then you can just put it back on the shelf or you can

take a course and go through it.

Step-by-step let's say there's six modules and each module is going to

give you a homework assignment and then you'll get on a coaching call.

And you'll talk about your challenges with the assignment.

And if you're going to get the same knowledge in a, so much deeper format.

So we want to have those of us who want to share our expertise, we want to be able

to offer it in many different formats.

Not only is that great for our audience, because they're all learned

differently, but here again, we're creating more sources of events.

And since I am a teacher at heart, I actually graduated as a teacher and I had

an English major and an education major.

And I've been teaching for the university of California for 15 years.

If I combine my teaching and my writing courses are perfect for me and

beyond teaching for the university.

If I teach my own courses, obviously I'll get it.

Chunk of the income and I'll have more control over the

content and the way I share it.

So I'm very excited.

I've taken a few online courses on how to develop courses.

And again, even with courses, you can have them be strictly on the computer for

somebody to go and take in their own time.

Or you can have them with one coaching call a week.

Two coaching calls or videos or no videos.

There's so many different formats.

And again, we have to understand our audience, Audience is business owners.

They're very busy.

What's going to be the best format for them to take in this information.

And usually what I do is I like to run surveys.

That's how I wrote my first book.

I ran a survey to find out what was the biggest problem that

potential authors were having and starting to write their book.

And after I ran that survey, I had a sense of what I needed to put in my book.

That's really good.

Yeah.

I think with the different types of learning whether that's via someone

picking up the physical book or, listening to an audio book or anything like that,

I actually, I know a business owner, friend of mine who will buy the physical

copy and the audio book, and then he listens to the audio book as he reads it.

And he's I retain so much more information.

Out of that book.

Then if I was to just do one of the two for me, I will grab, I'll grab audio

books of books that I want to read and I'll do it while I'm, I'll listen

to them while I'm doing yard work or gardening or, out driving or whatever.

And it's activities that, I would never have been able to sit there on the

freeway, reading a book while I'm driving.

That's a terrible idea, but you can throw an audio book on.

And, digest that content and think about it and process through that, in

a time where you're doing an activity that isn't hyper productive necessarily.

And it's something where you're able to replace, driving on the freeway

with reading a book and actually be somewhat productive during that.

Yeah,

it's more of a, it's a progression that we're seeing nowadays and

experts who was starting with a service.

They're moving into a book.

Then like me, they might move into a workbook and then

they're moving into courses.

And some of them even going beyond with coaching days and I'm planning

on doing a writer's retreat next year.

I have a few locations in mind.

Expanding your service and product deliverables is one of the best ways to.

Diversify your income and have more of a consistent income.

I know it sounds like a little bit too much to manage and I can see

that some people might think that, so it's not right for everyone.

And that's why I wrote two books this year, but I won't

be writing anymore for awhile.

And I'm going to do two courses next year.

They're just going to be my two primary courses.

Some people go on and on and the next person, the bigger course, and you

have to decide what's right for you.

I am not.

Youngster I'm, in my third phase of life, I guess say, and I know what I can

handle, and I know what I want to do.

And that ideas that I have to share will be perfect for the two

courses that I'm developing and.

I just, as a matter of fact, I just developed a new coaching

program called begin your book now.

Or I want to take authors who need a little handholding to the very beginning

of writing a book where I'll help them on a few zoom calls with their title,

their table of contents, their daily writing schedule and the timeline for

the whole process, because that's what.

A lot of authors find challenging.

They don't understand the whole process where it starts with, writing

the book and then getting it edited and having beta readers and having

advanced readers and getting the cover design the whole trajectory.

This beginning of book now coaching program that I'm developing is going to.

Lay all that out and you'll have timelines for me.

I don't find timelines as pressure.

I find them as my own form of accountability.

If I said that by the end of today, I'm going to do this and this.

I'm going to put everything else aside and do that bad, or, I have

an accountability partner right now.

So on Sunday night I sent her what I was supposed to send her.

It was like eight o'clock at night when I finally sent it to her.

But I knew that I promised it to her.

So I'm a coach is a great form of accountability, but you can find

accountability partners in your industry or the writing community.

Whatever works for you.

So the beginning of your book now coaching program is a form of accountability.

It lays out the whole process.

So new offers don't have to struggle and say, oh, what do I do next?

And what are we doing next?

So I'm excited about that.

And right now I'm going to be putting out a notice is looking for beta testers.

Those are the people who take your coaching program the first

time at a reduced price so that they can create testimonials for

when you launch your program.

So I'm excited about that.

I love developing titles and topics.

Tables of contents and this one of the most challenging things

I've found working with authors.

So yeah, the one thing, one thing I want to mention with

in regards to diversifying, and I think I want to clarify a little bit

here is although we're talking about diversifying what services or product

you're offering, what you're not talking about is diversifying across different.

Industry offerings.

You didn't say, oh, I am a book author, and I'm also going

to open an ice cream shop.

Those are two entirely separate industries.

Have nothing to do with each other and have no overlap.

Being an author and being a copy editor and being a, a book

coach are all the same industry.

They have very similar elements, a lot of overlap, the knowledge needed

to do all of those is not necessarily a hundred percent the same, but has a

very high overlap across all of that.

And the diversifying isn't necessarily always, oh, you own

a plumbing company now go open a.

A roofing company.

Those are very different elements.

They're both in construction, but they're different.

Or, you own a restaurant go open a construction company.

Like we're not talking about cross industry or diversifying in that

sense necessarily because this diversity move that you made in

diversifying sort of your offering.

Wasn't something where you had to go spend five years in education

and go learn a new skill.

It was something that you had the primary skillset and it was

pivoting the offer slightly.

And that's really key.

Sometimes you don't have to do this giant shift in business to offer something new.

It can be a small little incremental change.

There's a statement and a quote that I got.

Butcher, but it talks about making a 1% increase in your business.

You make a 1% increase every day in your business.

That's 365% better by the end of the year.

And so sometimes business owners want this big, giant, I

want to do a 90 degree pivot.

And it's okay don't do a 90 degree pivot because that's

all you're ever going to do.

And then it's not going to be.

But do a 1% increase, day over day and improve your business a little bit.

And I think elements like this, diversifying the authoring, the offering.

Are really critical to that.

And

Really good.

I think Joshua, that people will tend to want to work with specialists.

When you look at somebody's website, you want to see what they've done.

I have to say that I am horrified when I get on a website.

A copy editor and says, I do copy editing.

I do book formatting.

I do graphic design.

I do a virtual assisting.

I do your taxes and it goes on and on.

And how can this person be good at all of those things?

I.

I just don't think that's attractive for a business to do that.

I specialize in working with first time non-fiction authors to help

them write and publish a book.

They're going to be very proud of at whatever stage they need.

I am flexible and customized whether they need ghost writing, copy or books.

I can do that and I can get them to the finish line.

So I'm a specialist in first time, non-fiction authors.

I don't really work in fiction.

I don't really work in my market.

I work with experts who have information to share.

You.

Don't go to a doctor who does everything.

When you need a specialist for, a broken bone or any kind of surgery,

we tend to feel that specialists have.

The best skills.

And when someone works with me, there's two factors.

They want my skills, but on another level, they also have to get along with me.

And so now that we have zoom, I don't take on any new clients until we have a zoom.

Because, or I actually do have some live meetings with people because

I've seemed to attract a lot of people in the area where I live in

San Diego, but the zoom meeting, we can decide if we're compatible.

I won't work with anyone.

Who's not responsive.

If I send an email and it takes a week to get a response, that's not the best client

for me because we work with timelines.

If I don't get responses and I don't feel like there's invested in it.

So the skill set is really important, but the relationship is important.

Whether you're offering a service or a product is still need to know

your target market and you still need to have an affinity for them.

Because even if you're selling books, you're going to be doing some live events.

And I did a live event a few weeks ago at a library.

I've got a live event in two weeks at a street fair where my

writers put this taking a booth.

And then in January I have another live event.

I'm going to be on an offer panel that I set up in a women's coworking

space, full of business owners.

So I have to be relatable to that audience.

I have to know my audience.

I have to speak to that audience.

So your skills have to become accompanied by your ability

to relate to your audience.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's been super good chatting.

I think, I feel like there's been a ton of really good nuggets and information

throughout this whole conversation.

And I feel like.

We could probably sit here and chat for another half hour.

I will have your website, LinkedIn, all that type of stuff is, and bio is all in

the show notes for those listening, if you want to grab that, but what is the

number one best place to connect with you?

What is that number one spot where people should visit, find out more about you.

If they want to connect?

It's hard to decide between my two

websites, but writer's way.com.

Simple to remember.

I took that from the artist's way, because I really liked that, his

way.com and that's my service-based.

And then Andrea, Susan glass.com is where I have my books and my coaching programs.

You can always.

People anyone on LinkedIn and Facebook by putting their name in there, but way.com.

It also shows a lot of the authors I've worked with.

I have pictures of their books and their testimonials.

So you can also put my name into Amazon and find me all the books

I've worked on and my books.

Pretty much everywhere I want to be found, but I also offer a complimentary

book strategy session, 30 minutes on zoom for anyone who has any questions.

Absolutely no obligation.

Let's just talk and see where you're at and what kind of services you need.

And you can get that link on my website, Andrea Susan Glass dot com.

Awesome.

Awesome.

I will make sure to add the Amazon book author link in the show notes as well.

I'll grab that.

And, though, anyone can click on that and check out the books that you've

published to date follow the author on Amazon and Amazon will notify you as

more books are released, which is great.

So also appreciate the time.

Appreciate you joining me today.

And yeah, go check out the website if you want to connect and as

always keep learning and we'll go.

Take care.

Thanks.

Thanks so much for today, Joshua.

Thanks for listening to this episode of, in the bunker.

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at, in the bunker podcast.

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