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How to be a courageous sustainability leader
Episode 27 • 16th May 2024 • Leadership for Sustainability • Osbert Lancaster @ Realise Earth
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Courage is identified by the Inner Development Goals as one the key skills needed to achieve the Sustainable Development Goals. 

It takes courage to go against the flow. It takes courage to say things others don't want to hear. It takes courage to innovate and do things differently.

That’s why, if you’re leading on sustainability, you need courage to make genuine progress.

We recently brought together a number of sustainability leaders to discuss courage in their work – in construction, healthcare, engineering, public service, education and more.

Listen now for powerful insights and practical advice that you can apply to be a more courageous and effective sustainability leader.

Looking for support?

If you’re wrestling with any challenges as a sustainability leader we might be able to help. Find out how at https://realise.earth/services

 

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Transcripts

Archie:

I'll have one shot at that in the room with the CEO

2

:

Lyndsay: discussions around sustainability

result in quite a lot of conflict

3

:

Rebecca McLean: not to give

in to the fear of failure.

4

:

And that it's okay to fail

because you're trying new stuff

5

:

Adam: It's having the courage to have

those conversations and articulate the

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:

value into why this should be prioritized

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:

Osbert: This is Leadership for

Sustainability from Realise Earth.

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:

We focus on the people side of

sustainability to support sustainability

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:

directors, managers, and pioneers make

greater progress on sustainability

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:

in, and through, their organisation.

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:

I'm Osbert Lancaster.

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And I'm so glad you're here with me today.

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:

This episode brings you the highlights

of our round table discussion with a

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wonderful group of sustainability leaders.

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And the topic is courage.

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I'll let them introduce

themselves in a moment.

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But first, a quick bit of context.

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Courage is recognized by the Inner

Development Goals as one of the

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:

key skills needed to achieve the

Sustainable Development Goals.

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It takes courage to go against the flow.

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It takes courage to say things

others don't want to hear.

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It takes courage to innovate

and do things differently.

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And that's why if you're leading

on sustainability, you need

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courage to make genuine progress.

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And now it's time for our

guests to introduce themselves.

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Adam: Hi everyone, Adam Little,

I'm head of sustainability

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at Roslin Cell Therapies.

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Archie: Archie Lasseter, group head

of sustainability at Luxion Group.

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Azka: My name is Aska and I'm

a sustainability leader at

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Sapphire Mills in Pakistan.

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Caroline: Hi, yeah, I'm Caroline

Carlin and I'm the senior business

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development and sustainability

manager for E-novation Consulting.

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Lyndsay: Hi, I'm Lindsay Blue, I'm Head

of Sustainability at Third Way Interiors.

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Paul: I'm Paul, I am Director

of Finance and Sustainability

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at Heart Academies Trust.

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Rob: My name is Rob Turnbull.

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I am the Sustainability Manager at the

Edinburgh International Conference Centre.

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Rebecca McLean: Rebecca McLean.

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I work for SWECO.

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I'm their Head of Sustainability

for Energy, Water, Environment.

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Sian: Hi, I'm Sian.

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I work for LDA Design.

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I am the Sustainability Manager

but soon to be moving to

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Purpose and Impact Manager.

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Thom: I'm Thom Kenrick.

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I'm Head of Social Strategy for

NatWest Group, Royal Bank of Scotland.

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Hayley: Hi, I'm Hayley

William, now at Fife College.

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I'm Sustainability Manager.

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Kirsty Macdonald: Kirsty Macdonald

and I am the Head of Insight and

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Sustainability at Material Chain.

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Osbert: Plus two people who had

technical difficulties at this point.

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Victoria Barbie, sustainable

development performance manager

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at the Scottish Parliament.

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And Rosa Maria Orriols, vice

president of Women in Global Health.

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And co-hosting the round table with

me is Morag Watson, sustainability

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leadership and policy expert,

and co-founder of Realise Earth.

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Over to Morag to explain

what happens next.

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Morag: so what we're going to invite you

to do is to think about a particular

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occasion when you had to be courageous.

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So perhaps you had to stand

up for values you believe in.

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Or you had to take decisive action or make

a difficult decision that maybe needed to

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be done, but other people wouldn't like.

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Or you had to challenge or disrupt

existing structures or views,

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or it might be something else.

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I'm going to shut up for 10 seconds

and give you an opportunity to think.

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about a particular occasion

when you had to be courageous.

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So now you've got that occasion, what we

would like you to think about is, did you

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succeed or fail when you tried to do this?

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If you succeeded, who and

what helped you succeed?

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And whether you succeeded or failed,

what did you learn from that experience?

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What we're going to invite you to

do is once you're in your group,

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you can share the situation you're

in, discuss your experiences

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and what you learned from them.

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Osbert: Hello, good to see you all back..

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So, I hope you've had an

interesting discussion.

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You've got some great insights and ideas

and inspirations from that discussion.

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So we'll start with Group One,

Archie, Hayley, Sian, and Victoria?

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Archie: Just for a tiny bit of context,

because it's important, the kind of

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challenge that we spoke about, which

was kind of my example from the company

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I work for at the moment, was that

we've gone from sort of being a small

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group of two companies to a bit of a

larger group with about six different

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companies in and that's led to me

thinking I need to go and challenge, um,

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C suite to ensure that sustainability

is then reflected across the entire

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group of all of these companies, of

all of the entities within the group.

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Um, and that being a very challenging

conversation by needing, you know,

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suggesting that we do quite radical

things like hiring a CSO, um, Chief

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Sustainability Officer , linking

remuneration to, , our performance

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against our carbon targets, making

sustainability skills part of every

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single job description, really assigning

clarity and responsibility for each

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kind of MD of each entity on their

own decarbonization targets, , and you

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know, I'll have one shot at that in

the room with the CEO, and he'll either

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turn around and say, "this is something

I need to think about a bit more" um,

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"this is something that's ridiculous.

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Why did you bother

coming to me with this?"

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or "this is, , uh, it's really good".

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Osbert: So great context.

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So did you come to a conclusion about

how or what you're going to do with that?

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Archie: Yeah..

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So it's very live.

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Like this is something I've actually

been dealing with this week and kind of

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I'm going to be going to the, the CEO

in the next couple of weeks, once I've

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kind of got my head screwed upon, right.

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Um, but yeah, the advice in

the room was really useful.

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So, um, we had kind of an idea of, um,

using this is kind of showing how these

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things that I've listed as solutions to

the challenge of changing the culture of

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the business from the top down almost,

um, by linking it to kind of standards.

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Um, so saying, well, these are

what these kind of standards around

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sustainability like TCFD or B Corp

or something suggest you do and this

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is how it reflects that linking.

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Likewise, showing it how it kind of

links in with bids you might be tendering

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for, and where you're losing points

because of value that you're not showing.

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Osbert: I'm just fascinated and

looking forward to hearing more,

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but I've just realised what,

how the time is pushing us on.

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So room two was Kirstie, Lindsay and Rosa.

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Lyndsay: I think our key takeaway was

that, um, Inherently, discussions around

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sustainability result in quite a lot

of conflict and challenges internally.

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Um, the three of us come from

very different work environments,

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I'm construction based.

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Kirsty was agency based and

Rosa is healthcare based.

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So we all found a common ground in

conflict and there being a difficulty

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around separating emotion from such

discussions, I think, because, you

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know, whichever side of the fence

you sit on, people do feel very

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passionately about these subjects,

whether they're right or wrong.

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But the key takeaway for us is that

when those arguments are robustly

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supported with facts, figures and

processes, the arguments around

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doing the right thing become easier.

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So it was more about focusing on,

you know, the real tangible evidence.

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And the processes involved versus

managing emotions around commercial

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success and other personal drivers.

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Osbert: Thank you so much, Lindsay, so, let's move to room three, which

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is Caroline, Melia, Paul and Rebecca..

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Rebecca McLean: We all told kind of our

own stories and I think What we found was

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there were so many similarities regardless

of where we worked, and a lot of it was

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about psychological safety to actually

be able to move things forward, because

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if people are fearful, or they don't

understand what it is you're trying to

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do, or they don't see that it's part of

a kind of strategy and a, and I kind of

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a complete motion that sometimes you get

resistance, um, or if people feel at risk

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that their status might be taken away, or

they might be seen to be not doing what

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they should, that sometimes you can get

weird pockets of resistance from from ego.

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And I suppose not to give

in to the fear of failure.

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And that it's okay to fail

because you're trying new stuff.

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So if you're trying new stuff and it

doesn't work, don't get down heartened.

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You know, you can go home and have a

little hide under your duvet for an

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evening and then just get back on it

because actually there will be some stuff

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that will go really well there'll be

some stuff that you will learn from that

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process and then do things differently.

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Osbert: Thank you, Rebecca.

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And as you were speaking, I was just

seeing lots of nodding heads and

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big smiles, a lot of that resonating.

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And finally, Room 4, Adam, Rob and Thom.

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Adam: We all kind of raised different

points, but when we kind of brought

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them together, the themes are

around kind of trying to change

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your mindset within an organisation.

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So with different perspectives, um,

Thom's from a very large organisation,

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uh, myself and, uh, Rob from, uh,

from much smaller organisations.

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But what was, what's trying to be,

uh, implemented is that changing

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mindset, whether it's through, um,

introducing a strategy or a plan in

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my case, that's new to the business.

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My role is new in the company, so

I'm trying to kind of educate and

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inform people as to why sustainability

is important for our industry and

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the value that that will bring.

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Rob's in the position of bringing

teams together to facilitate

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kind of sustainability delivery.

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Um, and it was all about kind of

continuing those conversations and trying

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to kind of elevate sustainability in the

same way that safety might be considered.

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Um, for example, through just general

day to day discussion, safety seems

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to be embedded into how people

think about doing their jobs, but

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sustainability isn't quite there yet.

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Osbert: Again,

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Adam: where's

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Osbert: the courage?

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I can sort of guess where the

courage is, but do you want to just

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finish on the courage bit on this?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Adam: It's having the courage

to have those conversations and

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articulate the value into why this

should be prioritized as, as, as

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equally as other things should be.

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Osbert: Great.

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Thank you so much.

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I'd just love to open this conversation

up, but we don't have time to do that.

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So I'll hand back to Morag to

help us pull this together.

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Morag: Okay, so we're now into the

last 10 minutes and we're really keen

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to ensure that everyone has a chance

to contribute to this last part here.

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So here's how this is going to work.

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We'll give you a moment to reflect on

everything that you've discussed and

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you've heard in the last hour and just to

think next time you face a situation as

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a sustainability leader that tests your

courage, what could you do differently?

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Or what you already do that

you're reminded that you

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should be doing each time.

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I'm going to invite you to complete

the sentence, "The next time

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I need all my courage, I will…"

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So we're going to start with Rebecca,

and then we're going to come to Paul.

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Rebecca McLean: I will keep

smiling and think, what would

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Beyonce do in this scenario?

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Morag: We'll go to Paul and

then we'll come to Kirsty.

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Paul: I think I would, um,

remind myself why I do this.

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And for context, I work in

schools and it's for all the

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children that we work with.

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Morag: Thank you, Paul.

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Kirsty and then Hayley.

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Kirsty Macdonald: I would

prepare myself for everybody's

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perspectives, not just my own.

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Morag: And then we'll

go Hayley, then Thom.

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Hayley: And remember to be

friendly, but not shy away from

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those difficult conversations.

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Morag: Thom, then Sian.

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Thom: I'll remember that

it's a long term game.

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Morag: Thank you, Thom.

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Sian, then Rosa.

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Sian: The next time I need all my courage,

I'll remember it's a shared responsibility

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and it doesn't just come down to me.

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Morag: Thank you.

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Rosa, then Adam.

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Thank you.

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I will, I will put myself in

the shoes of my interlocutor.

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Adam, then Rob.

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Adam: Uh, I will not be afraid

to ask for help from others.

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Morag: Rob then Archie.

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Rob: I'll remember that it's all

worthwhile and we're all in this together.

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Morag: Archie then Lindsay.

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Archie: I'll have more empathy

with those I'm speaking with.

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Morag: Lindsay then Victoria.

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Lyndsay: I think it's important to

remember that it's the bigger picture

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that's really key and that we have to

keep working towards sustainability being

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business as usual and not a luxury add on.

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Morag: Victoria then Caroline..

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Victoria: Remind myself to dig

deep and believe in myself.

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Morag: Um, Caroline?

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Caroline: The next time I need all my

courage, I'll believe in myself more,

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and if I need it, I'll ask for help.

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Osbert: Lots of great insights

and ideas there from our guests.

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Which of those resonated with you?

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What will you do the next time

you need all your courage.

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It seems to me that discussion highlighted

three distinct aspects of being a

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courageous sustainability leader.

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The first is about approaching

a challenging situation with an

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understanding of, and an empathy

for, other people's perspectives

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and the realities they face.

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The second is about being prepared, having

a proposal or a plan, supported by good

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evidence and arguments that are relevant

and meaningful to the people involved.

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And of course you can only do that if

you understand where they're coming from.

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And the third is about what

it is that gives you courage.

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We heard just now about having a sense

of commitment and purpose, a vision

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of what we're working towards and why.

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Approaching the situation, knowing that

you might fail and that that's okay.

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Recognizing that it's not all

on your shoulders that you

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can ask for help from others.

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I hope you found these insights from

other sustainability leaders interesting

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and useful, and that you'll join

one of our round tables sometime and

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share your experience with your peers.

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We always encourage you to build

your network of collaborators,

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allies, and supporters.

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Not least so that you have people

you can turn to, if you need help.

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If you are wrestling with any challenges

as a sustainability leader at the

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moment, and you don't have the right

person in your network, or you want

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to talk to someone with a bit of

distance from the situation, do get in

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touch, or we can set up a time to get

together to help you find a way forward.

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See realise.earth/services

to find out how I can help.

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I'll put the link in the show notes.

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And if you'd like to have a chat

over a virtual coffee before

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committing, I'm up for that.

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Keep up the good work, be courageous

and make sure to look after yourself,

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because the world needs effective

sustainability leaders now more than ever.

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Bye for now.

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