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The Smart ADHD Guide to Executive Function
Episode 2712th December 2024 • Smart ADHD Podcast • Ian Anderson Gray
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Today, we’re talking about ADHD and executive function.

🔗 Read / Listen more: https://smartadhd.me/27 

In this episode of The Smart ADHD Podcast, we’re joined by Dr. Ari Tuckman again. We covered the importance of executive function and how it influences the lives of those with ADHD. 


We covered working memory, emotional regulation, and the unique advantages of being a 'smart ADHDer.' 


In this episode: 

00:00 Introduction and Personal Insights 

00:43 Welcome to the Smart ADHD Podcast 

00:46 Understanding Executive Function 

01:07 Ari Tuckman 

03:19 Defining Executive Function 

06:43 Real-Life Examples of Executive Function Challenges 

08:11 Memory and Processing in ADHD 

10:03 Emotional Regulation and ADHD 

13:41 The Double-Edged Sword of Being Smart with ADHD 

16:18 Strategies for Managing Executive Function Issues 

18:33 Conclusion and Future Discussions 


🕺More about Dr. Ari Tuckman. 

Ari Tuckman, PsyD is a psychologist, international presenter, author, and ADHD thought leader. 


Connect with Dr. Ari Tuckman: 

Website: https://adultadhdbook.com 


What's your biggest challenge in navigating ADHD as a smart creative? Share your thoughts in the comments section below, and don't forget to subscribe and leave a review! 


—---------------------------- 


🎤 About the Smart ADHD Podcast 

The Smart ADHD Podcast is for smart creatives, entrepreneurs, and business owners who are navigating life with ADHD. We celebrate unique brilliance, whether we're intelligent, exceptionally talented, or both. Ian Anderson Gray interviews experts to uncover the real story of ADHD for smart creatives, busting myths and discovering effective strategies to improve our lives, unleash our creativity, and grow. 


🔗 Find out more at https://smartadhd.me


—---------------------------- 


🕺More about Ian Anderson Gray 

Ian is the host of the Smart ADHD Podcast and a live-streaming video coach and consultant. He helps business owners and entrepreneurs broadcast live confidently, communicate better, and set up the right gear and tools. Ian runs Seriously Social, a business aimed at helping others be more productive and level up their impact online. He's also a professional singer, web developer, and an international speaker. Ian lives near Manchester in the UK with his family. 


—---------------------------- 


🤗 Connect with Ian 

Website: https://iag.me/ 

X/Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/iagdotme 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ianandersongray 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianandersongray/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iagdotme 

Threads: https://threads.net/@ianandersongray  


Transcripts

Ari:

If what you're doing is working then keep doing it I don't care if you

Ari:

if your schedule is written on your hand and it works well I'd say keep doing it

Ari:

Folks with ADHD are more likely to say something to their boss that gets them

Ari:

fired I'm sure it's something every other co worker is also thinking but most

Ari:

of the rest of them are able to remind themselves that it's nice getting a

Ari:

check every Friday so they don't say it

Ari:

It really is a double edged sword being smart or likable or really capable

Ari:

in particular ways obviously it's a great asset and it enables you to

Ari:

do bigger more interesting things the downside of it is you can compensate

Ari:

with these other sort of gifts and it hid your ADHD symptoms right?

Ian:

Hello and welcome back to the Smart ADHD podcast.

Ian:

Today we're taking a closer look at executive function and

Ian:

how it affects life with ADHD.

Ian:

Now this can often be to do with planning, focus and task

Ian:

completion amongst other things.

Ian:

Other things.

Ian:

It can feel like we're negotiating constant hurdles in our lives, but

Ian:

understanding executive function can make a massive difference.

Ian:

I'm honoured to be joined again by Dr Ari Tuckman.

Ian:

He's a psychologist, international speaker, and author well

Ian:

known for his work in ADHD.

Ian:

With years of experience and several acclaimed books to his name, Ari brings

Ian:

a wealth of knowledge to help us untangle the complexities of executive function.

Ian:

He'll be sharing practical strategies and explain how we can better

Ian:

manage these challenges to make our daily life just a little smoother.

Ian:

Let's get on with it, right now!

Ian:

Hello, I'm Ian Anderson Gray, and this is the smart ADHD podcast.

Ian:

Now if you're a smart, creative entrepreneur or business owner

Ian:

navigating your life with ADHD, This is the podcast for you.

Ian:

Now, I'm no ADHD expert, but I'm eager to share my story on what I've learned

Ian:

by talking with experts, as well as digging into the personal ADHD stories of

Ian:

successful creatives and entrepreneurs.

Ian:

I was diagnosed at age 46, and it answered so many questions in my life.

Ian:

But of course, that was in many ways, only the start of my journey.

Ian:

So let's learn together.

Ian:

Smart stories, smart strategies, smart ADHD.

Ian:

Hello, and welcome to Smart ADHD Ari, it's great to have you back on the show.

Ian:

How are you doing?

Ari:

I am good, and I'm very happy to come and talk about this topic.

Ian:

Awesome.

Ian:

I'm looking forward to actually seeing you in person at the international

Ian:

ADHD conference, which is happening in Anaheim later this year, which is great.

Ian:

And I'm still on this.

Ian:

I'm still on this kind of journey.

Ian:

I'm no ADHD expert.

Ian:

I'm learning all these new words that I hadn't heard of before.

Ian:

And one of those words is executive function.

Ian:

And I'll be honest with you, Ari, I still When people talk about it, I have to, it

Ian:

actually takes me a few seconds to remind myself what that is, and maybe that is

Ian:

actually an executive function problem.

Ian:

But what actually is executive function?

Ian:

And what, why is this an issue for people with ADHD?

Ari:

Yeah.

Ari:

Executive functions became this buzzword some years ago, and I think, if you're

Ari:

new to ADHD, it'll be a new idea.

Ari:

But even if you're old to ADHD, so to speak, you've, you might have heard

Ari:

it a million times, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you really know

Ari:

what it means, like a lot of buzzwords.

Ari:

So I think it's important to have this conversation.

Ari:

And.

Ari:

So the executive functions are, they're a particular set of cognitive

Ari:

skills that allow us to manage our behavior in relation to the sort

Ari:

of challenges around us, right?

Ari:

Just like, we have many different abilities, in general, but the executive

Ari:

functions are a specific set that are about Managing our behavior in relation

Ari:

to time and in relation to future goals.

Ari:

And, different authors will slice and dice the executive functions differently

Ari:

in terms of they'll clump some things together, or they'll break some things

Ari:

apart, but, they're pretty much all talking about the same sorts of things.

Ari:

And we can talk here about what some of those executive functions might be.

Ian:

Yeah, and I believe what I've read about, and you can correct me if

Ian:

I'm wrong here, that neurologically speaking, I'm using big words now,

Ian:

It's to do with the prefrontal cortex.

Ian:

It's and people with ADHD tend to have less reliable access to

Ian:

that is that what is happening?

Ian:

Is that where the all this executive function stuff is happening in our brains?

Ari:

Yeah, exactly.

Ari:

So prefrontal cortex is the part like right behind your forehead.

Ari:

And, it's not that folks in the ADHD don't have any executive functions, right?

Ari:

You'd have to like a major brain injury for that to happen, but

Ari:

rather their executive functions.

Ari:

Sometimes don't operate as reliably as they would hope,

Ari:

so it's a matter of degree.

Ari:

We're not, kind, so to speak.

Ari:

And, this is why, Russell Barkley has this famous quote.

Ari:

ADHD is not a disorder of knowing what to do.

Ari:

It's a disorder of doing what you know, and we can basically think

Ari:

of the executive functions as what helps us do what we know, right?

Ari:

It helps us convert our good intentions into reliable actions.

Ian:

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Ian:

What I find helpful here is to think about analogies or metaphors.

Ian:

And I've been thinking about the prefrontal cortex or

Ian:

executive functioning almost bit.

Ian:

It's almost like in a computer.

Ian:

It's like the RAM the memory the short term stuff Before it gets to

Ian:

storage and it feels to me like my RAM is either not I need more RAM

Ian:

Or it's just a little bit glitchy.

Ian:

That would be one way of looking at it the other thing that I've been thinking

Ian:

about is like our brain is like a city and And the prefrontal cortex is like

Ian:

the control center, which can which communicates with the rest of the city.

Ian:

But the problem is that there just aren't enough network cables.

Ian:

So it gets overpowered.

Ian:

And so the analogy I've been working on is well, it has to bypass some of

Ian:

that to what I call the Department of Emotional Affairs, otherwise known as I

Ian:

believe it's called the limbic system.

Ian:

So they tend to make decisions emotionally.

Ian:

Is that a kind of a reasonable analogy?

Ian:

What's actually going on?

Ian:

Is it a capacity problem that we've got?

Ari:

Yeah.

Ari:

I think this making the emotional response is what we talked about last time in

Ari:

terms of time management and feeling the future versus the present and all.

Ari:

But, one of, it is, it's about coordinating.

Ari:

And doing the best thing in that moment, there's lots of things we could do, but

Ari:

what's the best thing to do So, here's a real life example from yesterday.

Ari:

so yesterday she takes out the dog, we have this fenced in garden

Ari:

where we let the dog do her thing.

Ari:

So she drops the dog dumps the, stuff for the compost, and then walks down to

Ari:

the mailbox and gets the mail, and then starts flipping through the mail, which

Ari:

then hijacks her working memory, right?

Ari:

Her focus goes on the mail, and bam, knocks out, wait a second, I'm

Ari:

supposed to get Molly on my way back.

Ari:

And then left her out there for like an hour until my son came

Ari:

home and felt awful about it.

Ari:

I mean, Molly was fine.

Ari:

It was a nice day, but that's a great example of kind of a

Ari:

working memory glitch, right?

Ari:

Ideally, her working memory in a moment would be holding in the back of her mind.

Ari:

Remember the dog, right?

Ari:

But it got bam, knocked out.

Ari:

And again, like we all have these moments when you lock your keys

Ari:

inside, it's cause you forgot they were inside and not outside, right?

Ari:

Like we all have those moments, but that distractability of ADHD is

Ari:

basically that it's, there's like working memory glitches that happen.

Ian:

it's kind of almost like the glitch in the matrix, but not quite.

Ian:

You mentioned that we could look at some of the, the executive

Ian:

function tasks, what are the kind of things, that we're talking about?

Ian:

You mentioned like working memory.

Ian:

So that's maybe remembering things in short term memory, but what

Ian:

are the other things that are to do with executive function?

Ari:

Yeah in this case, the example I gave, it was really short term.

Ari:

I mean, it It was really like a minute or two of remembering, but, there's also

Ari:

something called perspective memory.

Ari:

So prospective memory, meaning remembering forward into the future.

Ari:

And that could be something like, Oh, when I get home, I have to ask my wife

Ari:

about the login for the whatever, or it could be, Oh, when I see you at

Ari:

the conference in two months, I need to bring a thing to give it to you.

Ari:

So two months from now when I'm packing, I should remember that.

Ari:

So it could be a shorter term.

Ari:

It could be a longer term, but that, realizing, oh wait, I'm packing,

Ari:

I was gonna get Ian that thing.

Ari:

So like popping that into memory and folks with ADHD are notorious for

Ari:

that, for forgetting those things, which then causes a lot of headaches

Ari:

later or in the moment, pausing.

Ari:

And either using hindsight, meaning looking back, what

Ari:

are the lessons of the past?

Ari:

If I thought, what are my experiences in similar situations?

Ari:

How do I apply that?

Ari:

Or forethought, meaning let me think ahead a moment about

Ari:

what it is that I need to do.

Ari:

So pausing to access that information, which, is going to change your decision

Ari:

of what you do, but if you don't, and this is like folks with ADHD often

Ari:

shoot themselves in the foot in ways that even they are like Damn it.

Ari:

Why did I do that?

Ari:

It's because they didn't pause to think Oh, wait a second.

Ari:

There's construction on that road.

Ari:

Don't go that way.

Ari:

Or if you do, you got to leave early, and then it's only when

Ari:

they're hitting traffic then.

Ari:

And it's again it's too late at that point.

Ari:

Then they remember like, ah, damn it.

Ari:

I knew this.

Ari:

Why did I do this again?

Ari:

So kind of repeating mistakes That they don't feel good about,

Ari:

obviously, that hindsight and forethought is part of it as well.

Ari:

There's the emotional regulation part.

Ari:

Like, Folks with ADHD tend to feel their feelings more and they

Ari:

wear them on their sleeve more.

Ari:

It's part of what makes folks with ADHD really fun to hang out with.

Ari:

But also if you're driven by the emotions of the moment, they may

Ari:

not be the best guides to , future outcomes, especially let's say if

Ari:

you're arguing with your spouse or your kids or your maybe your boss.

Ari:

So folks with ADHD are more likely to say something to

Ari:

their boss that gets them fired.

Ari:

I'm sure it's something every other co worker is also thinking, but

Ari:

most of the rest of them are able to remind themselves that it's

Ari:

nice getting a check every Friday.

Ari:

So they don't say it.

Ari:

But that person with ADHD really feels it and here it comes.

Ari:

And the fact that it's true, doesn't make you less fired like

Ari:

the boss doesn't want to hear it.

Ari:

There's that part of it as well.

Ian:

Yeah there's such a thing as oversharing I think it comes to

Ian:

this and it's being aware of that.

Ian:

So yeah sometimes I find myself like forgetting words,

Ian:

like just very simple words.

Ian:

And I just, it just, And then I get into this loop because I'm getting stressed

Ian:

and anxious that I can't remember the word and then that makes it worse.

Ari:

You'll never remember then.

Ian:

Yeah, exactly.

Ian:

It's I trained as a professional classical singer and I remember my final recital,

Ian:

I had to sing an hour's worth of music, all from memory, different languages.

Ian:

Oh my goodness, that was a struggle.

Ian:

And I think that was partly at the end of it, that's probably

Ian:

led to a bit of burnout, I think, as a result of all of that.

Ian:

But so that's memory.

Ian:

Is it also to do with processing things in our heads.

Ian:

So for example, this interview, I'm doing quite a few things.

Ian:

You might not think it, but I'm asking you questions, but I'm

Ian:

thinking about what you're saying.

Ian:

And then I'm thinking I've got some questions here, but I have to, I don't

Ian:

want to just read these questions.

Ian:

I want to think actually Ari said that was great.

Ian:

I want to lean into that, or maybe I need to ditch this.

Ian:

So there's a lot of things going on in my head.

Ian:

Is that, executive function stuff or is that something else?

Ari:

It absolutely is, right?

Ari:

Because as you're, you're both thinking, you're paying attention

Ari:

to what's happening in the moment.

Ari:

You're also trying to remember what did we just what have we already talked about?

Ari:

Because we don't want to repeat it, right?

Ari:

You've got these questions you're aiming towards that.

Ari:

You want to make sure you get in, but then you also want to let the

Ari:

conversation go where it's going to go.

Ari:

It's you're working memory juggling all of these things and, just in

Ari:

general, Trying to structure how this interview goes and to plan it out,

Ari:

but also be present in the moment.

Ari:

So yeah, there's, there is a lot of executive functioning happening in

Ari:

the, in this discussion, just as there might be in any discussion, right?

Ari:

If you're in a business meeting, or if you're even talking to a friend, maybe

Ari:

that's like whatever, who cares, but but sometimes, where it's that thing like,

Ari:

oh, I have an awesome idea, but don't interrupt, so There's that part of it too.

Ari:

So yeah, I think even this interview, you're using a whole lot

Ari:

of executive functions right now.

Ian:

Yeah, it's funny because I love doing these interviews, but I

Ian:

always find at the end of them, I'm partially energized and excited.

Ian:

But also partly I just want to go have a lie down in a darkened room because I feel

Ian:

like I've used a lot of energy as well.

Ari:

I think that says you're doing it right.

Ari:

I think the fact that you have both those feelings means you did it right.

Ian:

Yeah, no, that's good.

Ian:

I think and I think I've I have realized that is a good thing.

Ian:

So how does this affect smart ADHDers if if you're highly intelligent,

Ian:

I sometimes think that is not always it's not always a positive.

Ian:

I just wonder whether that kind of exacerbates the issue.

Ian:

What was your view on that?

Ian:

can that cause problems?

Ian:

Can we find ways around it?

Ian:

I'm going to I'm going to ask you about strategies next, but just particularly

Ian:

for smart ADHD is what's going on there.

Ari:

It really is a double edged sword being smart or likable or really capable

Ari:

in particular ways, obviously it's a great asset, and it makes life easier.

Ari:

It enables you to do bigger, more interesting things.

Ari:

So that's all good.

Ari:

The downside of it is, especially for younger people, not necessarily

Ari:

six year olds, but let's say 15 or 25 year olds is you can compensate.

Ari:

With these other sort of gifts, or as they say, you got by on smarts

Ari:

and charm and maybe a bit of luck and it hid your ADHD symptoms, right?

Ari:

People are like, Oh, she's fine.

Ari:

She's doing great.

Ari:

Yes, sort of, but she's killing herself extra hours every night.

Ari:

The teacher loves her and gave her an extension, but seriously she wasn't

Ari:

ready when it should have been, she's anxious or losing sleep or whatever.

Ari:

It can lead to more kind of struggle and suffering.

Ari:

I think it can also lead to stubbornly muscling through, right?

Ari:

Using your gifts to plow ahead.

Ari:

Rather than trying to find a better way or even being down on yourself

Ari:

about I'm so smart, but I'm so stupid.

Ari:

Why do I keep doing this?

Ari:

Or why do I keep waiting until the last minute?

Ari:

Always sucks.

Ari:

Why do I do this?

Ari:

Or quote, everybody else can do this so easily and quickly.

Ari:

Why does it take me so long?

Ari:

So all these sort of negative comparisons against, We'd say not actually real

Ari:

people, they're giving other people too much credit and yourself not enough.

Ari:

So there's a lot of sort of self esteem hits associated with that as well.

Ari:

But this is all sort of the dark side, so to speak.

Ari:

If you, once you start to understand your ADHD and just understand yourself

Ari:

in general and, see some of this stuff through a different lens.

Ari:

Have better ways of managing it feel more effective right then all those

Ari:

smarts and other good qualities can be mostly a strength and not so

Ari:

much that other side of the coin.

Ian:

yeah, definitely.

Ian:

I think you know, my experience before I was diagnosed.

Ian:

So undiagnosed HD, my self esteem was rock bottom, I questioned my

Ian:

own intelligence, because of all those things that you mentioned.

Ian:

And that's why I think for me, that diagnosis took away

Ian:

so much guilt and shame.

Ian:

And yes, it was only the start of my journey.

Ian:

But that was a really positive thing.

Ian:

And So for people who I would never tell anyone to get diagnosed

Ian:

that's for them to decide.

Ian:

But for my own personal experience, it was a game changer for me.

Ian:

It was only the start of the journey.

Ian:

And yes, that was a dark time.

Ian:

We need to think about the positives moving forwards.

Ian:

And what are the kind of the strategies or the tips or I don't really like

Ian:

the word hacks, but, to, we know we've got an executive function issue due

Ian:

to the way our brains work , what are we going to do about that?

Ian:

We could wallow in our misery and just give up.

Ian:

That's not the

Ari:

always an option.

Ian:

I'm sure you've got some tips for us.

Ari:

Yeah absolutely.

Ari:

I think that it, I think it becomes a thing of knowing where you

Ari:

struggle, being honest about it.

Ari:

And then a lot of it is externalizing, meaning don't keep it inside your

Ari:

head, but make it external out in the world, meaning writing it down.

Ari:

Setting reminders, doing other things to offload some of those internal abilities.

Ari:

So, This is a dumb example, but whenever I talk to someone

Ari:

who says, oh, yeah, I don't.

Ari:

Have a calendar.

Ari:

I just remember everything, right?

Ari:

Like, Never do I think, Oh, my God, this person must have an amazing memory, right?

Ari:

Instead, what I think is dude, you must forget stuff all the time, but you don't

Ari:

even know it, so being intentional about using the tools that you need to use.

Ari:

And it's really like the proof is in the pudding.

Ari:

If what you're doing is working, then keep doing it.

Ari:

I don't care if you, if your schedule is written on your hand and it works

Ari:

well, I'd say keep doing it, but if it isn't working well, then let's

Ari:

find something that works better.

Ari:

And I think that this is where a diagnosis of ADHD can be so helpful

Ari:

because it cuts down the solutions that probably won't work, right?

Ari:

And it leads you to a shorter list of ADHD friendly strategies that are

Ari:

probably more likely to do the job.

Ari:

And even if you're not perfect, which you won't be, by the way who cares?

Ari:

It's Even being half better is still better, and maybe being

Ari:

half better is good enough, right?

Ari:

Again, don't have to be perfect, but maybe being half better gets

Ari:

you to a point where you feel pretty good about how it's working.

Ari:

Other people feel good enough about how it's working and

Ari:

life kind of moves on, right?

Ari:

So don't set this high bar that you're definitely not going to reach.

Ian:

Yeah, the curse of perfectionism.

Ian:

Not that I know anything about that.

Ian:

Moving on swiftly.

Ian:

Thank you so much, Ari.

Ian:

We are at a time I know you need to dash off.

Ian:

So just I'm going to be very good with my time management and my

Ian:

executive function and finish there.

Ian:

But thank you so much for coming on.

Ian:

I feel we've only scratched the surface.

Ian:

We've only really, talked about what executive function is the issue,

Ian:

but also some positive strategies.

Ian:

You have to come back on the show and talk a little bit

Ian:

more about that in the future.

Ian:

Thank you so much.

Ian:

You mentioned last time your website, all of that will be in the show notes.

Ian:

And of course, if you are in California in November, you can meet Ari in person,

Ian:

which would be awesome.

Ari:

it is.

Ari:

It's a hell of a gathering.

Ari:

I think it's an amazing experience.

Ari:

It's better than you think it's going to be.

Ari:

And it's 1 of those things where the things will happen.

Ari:

You didn't even know to think might happen in the sense of the people you

Ari:

meet and the stuff that comes out of it.

Ari:

It's for people who have ADHD or family members with ADHD or people who provide

Ari:

services or content for folks with ADHD.

Ari:

So it's this giant family gathering and I don't know, everybody there is

Ari:

awesome and friendly and supportive and it ends with a party on Saturday night.

Ari:

Like, why not come?

Ari:

So chadd.

Ari:

org is one of the ways to get there.

Ian:

Yeah, definitely.

Ian:

Well, All of that will be in the show notes at smartadhd.

Ian:

me.

Ian:

Thank you so much, Ari.

Ian:

It's been amazing.

Ian:

You've been so helpful giving insight and some strategies and hope for the future,

Ian:

which there definitely is for those of us who are navigating our lives with ADHD.

Ian:

Thank you so much.

Ari:

Absolutely.

Ari:

Thanks for the work you're doing.

Ian:

And thank you for plugging us into your ears for watching us on the YouTubes.

Ian:

And until next time, I encourage you to, be smart with your ADHD.

Ian:

Toodaloo!

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