Finding Purpose in Our Pain with Andrew Olsen

Episode 97 • 2nd August 2023 • Construction Disruption • Isaiah Industries

Intro/Outro:

Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.

Todd Miller:

I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. Today, my co-host is Ryan Bell. Ryan, welcome to this episode of Construction Disruption. You doing well?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:00:29

Hey, good morning, Todd. I am doing great. How are you?

Todd Miller:

: 00:00:32

Doing great as well. I want to thank you for filling in. As you know, Seth Heckaman was actually supposed to co-host, but he was playing peekaboo with his young daughters and had a horrible accident. And we appreciate you filling in for him. He is in the ICU now. Okay. That one just went over really, really well didn't it?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:01:01

We just need the little sound pads with so everyone knows when the joke has has dropped.

Todd Miller:

: 00:01:08

Well, Ryan was entirely supposed to be the co-host from day one, so thank you for joining us today. Anyway, I'm excited. Today, I think this is the first time we've had a repeat guest on the show. Am I mistaken on that? Is that your recollection too?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:01:23

I believe it is. I cannot, I tried to think back and I cannot think of. I know we've talked about it before, but I can't think of any time we've actually had a repeat guest on.

Todd Miller:

: 00:01:34

Well, I'm excited because you're right. We've talked about it and here we are coming up close on our hundredth episode at this point. And yeah, we've got a few more I've talked to and said I will have the on again some time. But this episode, our guest won out in that race to be our first repeat guest. So today we have back Andrew Olsen of DickersonBakker. He was our guest way back on Episode 66. And in that episode we talked about his work in the professional fundraising business and in particular how that has taught him how to reach people through emotion. But today, he wanted to join us and we quickly picked up on it to have him delve into the very personal story of him growing up, the son of a father who was addicted to gambling and the devastating impact that that had on his family, but then also painting that picture of hope and restoration. But through that pain, he went through all that when he was younger and in this family, Andrew has developed a great understanding of really how God uses those painful experiences to prepare us for our futures. So it's a real blessing to have him here today to tell his story. Andrew, welcome back to Construction Disruption.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:02:55

Hey, thanks, Todd. Thanks, Ryan. I'm I'm really excited to be here. I'm glad to be able to to share with your audience and hope that what we're going to talk about helps to bring some perspective and and hope to others if they're struggling or, you know, had similar challenges in their lives. So really appreciate you guys giving this platform for this.

Todd Miller:

: 00:03:13

Well, and we love doing that. I mean, a lot of our episodes, we're really into the weeds looking at construction and design and architecture. But every once in a while we kind of step back and realize that, Hey, we're all people here and we all have stuff that we deal with and we all have stuff that we're trying to figure out sometimes. And we love to be be of help and give everyone sort of maybe a a fresh perspective, but also a fresh way of caring for one another as well by sometimes getting a better understanding of the issues that other one others are walking in. So, Andrew, you had reached out to me a while back and sent me a video of you sharing really this very deeply personal and emotional story. You had shared it in that case at an association for Christian fundraising event. I would love it if you could just kind of retell that story about what happened within your family and then we'll all kind of go on and unpack it a little bit for sure.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:04:14

So, yeah, the video that I sent you and the story that I was telling, you know, I sort of crafted a narrative around this idea of finding purpose in our pain. And and so what I shared with them is the story of growing up. You know, I grew up in Southern California, Los Angeles area, the son of two high school sweethearts. My mom and dad got married while they were still in high school. And my father was a congregational minister and my mom was mostly worked as a teacher's assistant at a school in Southern California. And when I was just about 15, my father went to Alaska. It was a really weird decision. He said, you know, there's this church in Alaska. And I think that, you know, we're being called up there. I think that, you know, we're going to, I'm going to take a job up there. So he went on this trip to to go talk to these folks in Alaska about taking a church up there. And I was kind of like, well, wait a minute, we live in Los Angeles. What in the world we want? Why would we ever go to a place like Alaska? And so while he was gone one morning, 6:00, 630 in the morning, something like that, we're all getting ready for school and work. And there was a knock on our front door. And, you know, I went to the door, open the door, and there were a couple of sheriff's deputies standing on the other side of the door. And we lived in a rough neighborhood. I mean, we didn't have a lot of money and so we were in a pretty, pretty, you know, poverty ridden community. It was not uncommon for cops to show up on our street, in fact, that the day we moved in, there was a raid on the house across the street. So we were familiar with, you know, law enforcement presence, but they'd never shown up at our house. And so I called my mom and and brought her to the door. And I can just see on the look on these guys faces, they were not excited to be there. This was not a fun conversation for them. And so what they did was they reached in and handed her a document and they said, you know, Ma'am, this is an eviction notice. You've got three days to vacate this property and come to find out that we hadn't paid our mortgage in 14 months and notice after notice had been sent, but nothing had been done with them. And so, you know, she crumpled to the floor. She was devastated. And they left and just kind of left us there to process that information. What we ended up finding out is that my father knew that that eviction notice was coming, that the deputies were on their way. And he fled essentially, so that he didn't have to face them and he didn't have to face us. And so we started to unravel and uncover this secret that he had kept for years, where he had a gambling addiction that started years ago. And he would actually leave our house in the morning, tell us he was going to work, go to the Burbank Airport in Southern California, fly to Las Vegas, spend the day in Vegas gambling and then fly home at night, come home, plop down and be like, Oh, man, such a hard day at work, so much going on. You know, when in reality he was out, you know, burning through our family savings and all the money that we had to care for ourselves and keeping that secret, you know. And so he knew they were coming. He left to avoid that and left us holding the bag, if you will. You know, my mom and I and my little brother and sister a couple of days later ended up packing our car with everything we could and leaving. I mean, what else do you do when they tell you we're taking your house, you know? And he had, my father had opened a P.O. Box so that all of the bills, all of the late notices, all of the eviction paperwork would go somewhere else, and none of us would have any idea about it. So it was a complete shock when they did show up. We ended up for a time staying at my grandparents house, only to find out that my grandmother was actually enabling my father's addiction and sending him money. And in that process he ended up wiping out my grandparents entire savings and leaving them destitute and homeless as a result as well. We then later discovered that he stole tens of thousands of dollars from multiple churches that he had pastored. And we had, you know, church leaders and members coming to us telling us they wanted their money back. Yeah, we ended up effectively homeless, couch surfing with friends, you know, struggling to figure out how to, you know, how do you pay to, you know, rent anywhere to you know, we were living in motels for a while. I remember a situation where, you know, we walked into a grocery store and my little brother wanted a hot meal and we didn't have any way to cook it. And he started just crying because he said, I just want hot food tonight, momma. And she slapped him. You know, my mom smacked him. And not because she you know, she wasn't trying to abuse him or anything, but she was just so stressed out and so personally devastated by hearing that she couldn't care for what he wanted, that she just broke, you know? I mean, I remember standing in line in the L.A. County welfare office thinking like, wow, 30 days ago, like we were solidly middle class. We had a decent house, we had two cars, you know, I mean, we you know, we could afford to go out to, you know, lunch or whatever. And all all the things that you think about when you think of somebody who's, you know, a decent wage earner. And now today, we're standing here in line for food stamps because we don't have any other way to make ends meet. You know, and I know and it's just such a like crushing blow and trying to understand why on earth something like that happens, what you know, what triggers that kind of behavior in someone that they would put everything that they have at risk and lie and cheat and steal to feed that addiction. I didn't know, I was 15. I didn't understand anything about addiction at that point. Come to find out later that actually like 75% of my family on both sides have addictive personalities and were, you know, whether it was drugs or alcohol or or gambling, it's a lot more prevalent in the world than I think many of us realize. And, you know, I mean, so I ended up at 16 leaving home. I left and just decided, you know, if I take one mouth out of the house, it's going to be easier for my mom to take care of my brother and sister. So I went and slept. I stayed with a friend and, you know, slept on a concrete floor in their house for as long as they'd let me. And they were gracious and and allowed me to do that, to make my way through high school and actually finish school, because otherwise I would have effectively ended up on the street. But, you know, it was it was devastating and such a struggle for so long. And it really just put our family on a completely different path than I ever expected. And I you know, even in that, though, I do remember times where I thought, huh, you know, I, I grew up in the church. My father was a pastor, but everything he did made me wonder, like, is this legit or was this all a lie, too? Right? Because I clearly can't trust him as a father. So why would I trust him as a pastor? But then things would happen that would sort of remind me that there's, you know, there's there's forces bigger than me in this world. So as an example, we'd be down to our last $10. And I'd know that there was no way that we could put gas in the car, buy food for the family for the week, pay the bill that, you know, was was late, that we needed to pay and do all of those things with the last $10 or $15 that we had. And then on that day, you know, my mom would find a note in her locker at work with, you know, $100 gift card to the grocery store. Or, you know, I started working at 15 at a pizza joint just so that I could help make ends meet. You know, the the owner of the pizza joint would come in and be like, hey, somebody bought two pizzas and never showed up to to pick them up. So here, why don't you take this home? He had no idea what was going on in our house. But, you know, it was those kind of little things that started to show me that like, oh, you know, for as much as as I am angry and and not trusting and just don't know what to believe anymore, that even in those situations, God was at work taking care of us, not maybe in the way that I would have wanted or expected, you know, not fixing the situation, but making it so that we could get through that day. And and it took a long time for me to really kind of crystallize and realize that that's what it was at the time. It was just like, oh, thank God, you know, we're able to eat today, right? Or, wow, you know, now, now we can actually put that money in the gas tank and mom can get to work so that she doesn't lose her job. But with with the benefit of hindsight and being able to look back now, I can see that in all of those instances. When we were willing to call on Him, He was there for us, right? Even though I might not have thought about it that way when I was a kid and, you know, this went on for well, gosh, I was I was 15 when when it happened. And they were still struggling through this when I was in college. You know, I again, one of the odd blessings that we had, you know, my father with his addiction and everything and being kicked out of his leadership roles at church. You know, one interesting thing was there was a college in northeast Georgia that is affiliated with the Congregational Church. And they said to me, even though your father's essentially been removed from leadership in the church, since you were a pastor's kid for, you know, eight years, you can come here on scholarship. So I ended up getting a completely free education because of that profession that he had, even in spite of the fact that he violated many oaths. And, you know, everything that happened there, they still sort of extended that grace to me, if you will. And this is just another example of, you know, God really watching out for us and, you know, setting things in motion that I didn't have, you know, the context of process at the time. I walked out of a four year degree with zero debt. In fact, I had net dollars in my pocket at the end of my four years because they also paid for my books and I could sell them back. So, I mean, how many people get to tell a story like that and get to have that kind of thing happen even in the midst of everything else that that I'm sharing with you? You know, my parents divorced when I was in college, but then some things happened that that actually sort of changed the story around. So I thought that our family would just kind of, you know, descend into oblivion and we would never talk. I didn't talk to my father for 15 years. I barely talked to my mother for pretty much the same amount of time. Just because he had made his choices and she was struggling to keep the family together. And so she was making decisions to just sort of try to reconnect with him. And it was the right thing for her to do in her marriage. I just didn't understand it back then. But I saw that as her choosing him a liar, a gambler, a cheat over over us. So I just said, you know what? I'm out, I'm done. And and it took about 15 years for us to even start talking again. And what happened in those intervening years is he got clean and sober and hadn't gambled for about 11 years now. They actually remarried one another. I got a call from my younger sister while I was away and she said, Hey, you know, Mom and Dad got married today. And I said, Well, to whom did they get married? Like, and why did they pick the same day? You know, she started laughing. She's like, No, no, no, no, shut up. Like, they got remarried together, right? And so they, their relationship was restored. And and then my father actually went and got a counseling degree and ended up spending the last, he passed away a couple of years ago now. But the last probably ten years of his life, he spent counseling other gambling addicts and on working with, you know, state gambling associations to help build programs to intervene when people have unhealthy behaviors around gambling and addictive behaviors. And so, you know, I mean, he and I, when he passed, we were on probably the best terms we were ever going to be on, given everything that had happened. I still wish it had been better. But, you know, at least at the end of the day, we were able to tell each other that we loved each other and, you know, do I wish I had a better relationship with him? Absolutely. But knowing that, you know, all that reconciliation had happened before he passed and the you know, the recovery in his life and the reconnection with my mom, I mean, that's pretty powerful stuff to see happen, particularly when really kind of all trust had been blown apart early on in in, you know, their their marriage. And so it's actually I, I know that I look back on it this way. I think there is, you know, some really just beautiful change that happened in their lives. My mom is actually going to be here on my farm next week. She now comes and visits fairly regularly, gets to see the grandkids and spend time with them. So we you know, we've been rebuilding that relationship and kind of reconnecting. And just the idea that that even in the midst of all that baggage that that he and she had, you know, they're able to to reconnect with one another and then to use their experiences to help others who are having similar challenges and to help keep marriages together, help rebuild marriages that had been destroyed because of trust issues around addiction. And then to also, you know, help addicts that are actively engaged or or considering, you know, going back into a casino or going online to gamble and to help them, you know, keep from doing that, to be able to protect their, you know, their their lives and their families. That's pretty impactful. You know, and then, you know, for me personally, I went into this career fundraising 25 years ago now, not really thinking like, Hey, I'm on a mission here. And it took me a good 10 or 15 years to realize that what I had gone through was actually setting me up to do this work really well. And the the way that I think about that most of my time in the last 25 years has been spent serving people who live in poverty. So whether it's working for a food pantry or a homeless shelter or the Salvation Army or even a global poverty program, you know, I feel like the calling that I'm following is to alleviate suffering anywhere that I can do that. And that's not some grandiose like I'm a savior or anything like that. I'm talking about, you know, doing the small things that move the needle a little bit, making sure that families have, you know, the money they need to to put food on the table, to put gas in the gas tank, to get to work, to be able to, you know, buy their kid a pair of shoes when they when they need them, those kind of things. This is not, I'm not trying to make something bigger of myself than I am. But the context that's really valuable, and it took me a long time to learn is that all of those experiences, all of the suffering that we went through as kids and that my parents went through really helped to shape how I think about people and what it means to be someone who says, Yeah, okay, I think I can help fix that problem. I can't solve the whole crisis, right? I can't solve global poverty, but can I help intervene so that that one person doesn't have to suffer the way they are right now. And I just had no context for that really kind of before letting this all sink in and processing through it for years. But I can see clearly now all these different experiences that we went through. We're setting up a scenario where where, you know, now I can use the skills that I've been given to actually help other people who are facing similar crises. And I was I was listening to John Maxwell. You know, for those of you who don't know, he's one of the famed leadership gurus in the country. And he said this phrase that just like brought me to my knees. He said What we see as setbacks in our lives, God often uses as setups for something better. And I like, I just stopped in my tracks and I was like, Oh, my gosh, that explains everything for me. And so all of these things that I had struggled with, that I was I mean, I had such anger and resentment and frustration for everything that, you know, I went through with my father. All of a sudden, contextually, you know, it's not to say that, like it all went away that day. I think, you know, when you've gone through a trauma like that, you still deal with it every day. And, you know, sometimes I still drop back into feeling sorry for myself and being grumpy about, you know, childhood and things like that. But but all of those things started to fall into place in a way where I could see, huh, These aren't all negatives. They might have hurt in the moment, but they really created a framework for me emotionally, mentally, spiritually, where I could then do something with that experience that brought a positive benefit to other people across the globe. And so, you know, I am now kind of fully embracing and on this mission to help other people acknowledge and see how the pain that they've experienced can be purposeful and how they can actually create something impactful and valuable for for others out of those experiences. And it doesn't have to be something that you just wallow in suffering.

Todd Miller:

: 00:23:31

That's a powerful story, Andrew, thank you very much for sharing that. And I'm sure every time you share it, even though you've done it a lot, it has to bring back a lot of emotions. As you were sharing, I jotted down a number of questions I wanted to delve into a little bit. In fact, I jotted so many, I ran out of ink in my pen. So now I'm writing with a magic marker I found. But I'm kind of curious, and I realize you were pretty young at the time, but as you look back on your father's ministry, did he have a heart for those who are dealing with addictions and struggling with things that came out in his ministry while he was dealing with it himself?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:24:12

And I think he did. So I, you know, couple of years after all this came out, I was sitting with my grandfather, his father, and I kind of asking him questions about, you know, my my dad's childhood and his teenage years and just sort of like, hey, did you ever see this coming? Like, was there a warning sign that we should have all, like, should a red flag have gone off anywhere? And my grandfather said that when when he was when my father was in college, he took all of his college semester, you know, payment money one semester and bought drugs with it. And so he ended up getting kicked out of college. And it was kind of through that process that he then came to faith and my grandfather tells a story where I guess my father said something that, you know, prayed some prayer similar to, God, if you just get me out of this, I'll commit the rest of my life to serving you and to ministering in your name. And so that's essentially kind of how he came into ministry. And I think, you know, in many ways, he did have a desire to help people who were were, you know, dealing with addictive behaviors. But for so long, he was just so deep into his own addiction that he wasn't able to be effective at it.

Todd Miller:

: 00:25:37

Yeah, I can imagine that. Well, you know, your whole family and the John Maxwell quote is great to me. I've heard that a lot, a set back is a set up for a comeback. And, you know, God works in that way. I'm curious, you know, for anyone out there who might be struggling. Do you know anything about your dad's process for, you know, getting clean and sober, as you say what his process was? I mean, he was dealing with homelessness, I'm sure, also at the same time. Do you know anything about that process or would you have any great words of advice for somebody out there who might be dealing with addictive behavior in their own life, whatever that might be, as far as how they get out of that, out of those chains?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:26:24

Absolutely. So, a couple of things. And yes, he was he ended up living in his car for a while after he left us to go to Alaska. So that definitely was homelessness, too. I would say a couple of things. First of all, you know, his his process, he entered a Gamblers Anonymous program. So like Alcoholics Anonymous, like Narcotics Anonymous, you know, similar-type program. And then also sought out a counselor to help him kind of on a one-on-one process. But I would say in in every zip code in the United States, the Salvation Army runs programs for addiction recovery. So so there's not a city, there's not an unincorporated county, there's not a town, there's not a holler anywhere in this country where the Salvation Army doesn't have a program to help people who are struggling with addiction. So they're one great place to go. I would also say, you know, there's a group called Teen Challenge. Teen is in their name, but they work with adults, too. They also have a global network of counselors and and programs for people who are dealing with addiction. Another option, might not sound common because a lot of people who face addiction are dealing with homelessness. But there is a network called City Gate, and those folks run addiction recovery programs for alcohol, drugs, gambling, pornography, really any addiction that you might face. They often are inside homeless shelters, but they're also great referral partners for for other programs. Those are some big ones. Local hospitals almost always have a partner that deals with addiction recovery programs. So many churches also have these programs now. I mean, this is you know, this is one of those things and I learned this with my dad, like, you know, just because you have a particular faith, maybe you go to church every Sunday doesn't mean that you're not going to face addiction, too. So I think there are a lot of different programs like that. And, you know, I know that one of the stories that we tell ourselves when we're dealing with something like this is that we're alone. No one can know about this. We you know, there's so much shame tied up in, you know, dealing with the aftermath of addiction. And I think that's a false narrative that that is used to destroy people. And so you don't have to face these kind of things alone. And often the best way to start down the road of recovery is to talk to somebody else about it, even if it's not a, you know, quote unquote, licensed professional. If you've got a friend, a family member, somebody, you know, a local civic group or church that you trust, just start having a conversation and ask for help.

Todd Miller:

: 00:29:33

Would you I mean, would that be your same advice for someone? I mean, you know, look at yourself. You weren't the one who was in the addictive behavior, but yet you went through and so did your mom and your siblings went through these very traumatic times. And my story's, nothing, you know, like yours. But, you know, we all have a story. And I remember in particular when my father passed away a few years ago, and, you know, we we had a decent relationship. We worked together. But after he passed away, I dealt with nightmares for months that just seemed to come out of nowhere. But, you know, it helped me realize that there was stuff from my childhood I had never really dealt with. And now all of a sudden, you know, with his passing, it triggered a lot of that. But, um, anything, any advice for somebody out there who maybe went through a tough time and they find themselves at a point where they're thinking maybe I didn't I haven't dealt with that fully or maybe I haven't dealt with that the most healthy way. And, you know, sometimes that can force somebody into addictive behavior, too, to boot.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:30:41

It sure can.

Todd Miller:

: 00:30:42

Any advice for folks in those shoes?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:30:45

Yeah, I mean, it can push people into addictive behavior or just dangerous behaviors.

Todd Miller:

: 00:30:53

Sure.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:30:53

I think, you know, talking about it is really important. The more that we bottle things up, the worse they get, you know? So journaling, talking to a friend or a loved one or even someone that's not closely connected, because oftentimes, you know, we say, oh, well, if if this person who loves and respects me knew about this, they wouldn't love and respect me anymore. It it's not true, but it's the story that we tell ourselves. So, you know, sometimes it you know, maybe you just need to find someone who's a little bit further removed, whether it's a therapist or, you know, a lot of companies in their insurance programs will have these kind of helplines that you can call and you can talk to someone and and they can offer you resources for support and things like that. Something like that might even be be helpful. I've seen a lot of people do, you know, kind of their own processing through journaling and recording, you know, their thoughts and things like that. Certainly, you know, therapy or some sort of group counseling, kind of like, you know, I know that all the Alcoholics Anonymous and programs like that usually have one for family members as well, which I know my mom was a part of. And and those were really helpful for her. And then I think the other thing that I found is, the more that we can do something for someone else, the better we can gain perspective on our own issues. So I find sometimes that the best way for me to get out of my own funk when I'm feeling sorry for myself is to go out and serve somebody else. So whether that's volunteering, whether that's, you know, going to mow your neighbor's lawn or, you know, take your your neighbor's grandma to do her grocery shopping, whatever it might be. If you seek ways to help other people, there's actually science behind it. Like it increases your your endorphins, it increases oxytocin. It does things that that give you a positive, emotional feeling and also gets you to stop focusing on the negative. So I think that's a great way to even just in the moment kind of get a reset. And then I think the thing that has really been important to me is is really deeply thinking about and trying to understand what, how do I use what I experienced to do something better in the world? Regardless of what kind of work you do or anything like that. Like, we all have these experiences. Many people go through something traumatic. How do we, how do we take those things and turn them into a positive rather than just wallowing in the negative?

Todd Miller:

: 00:33:32

It's interesting. I know, you know, over the years, I've gained a lot of perspective on, you know, things I had gone through in my childhood simply by hearing other people's stories also. And, you know, it helped me realize, Hey, I'm not alone. And these people have gotten through some very difficult things as well. Good stuff. Well, I'm kind of curious. I mean, if we fast forward to today and, you know, you're a husband and father and great story about your mom coming and being with her grandkids at the farm and that type of stuff. Is there any ways that you think you approach life as a husband and father differently because of what you went through and because of that story that you know, God has built into your life? Has that impacted, you know, how you play those roles in your life?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:34:29

It has, for sure. And some positive, some not so positive. You know, for example, I remember when my wife and I were were dating and getting serious and talking about marriage. I remember a conversation where I said to her, you know, I don't want to have children until we own a home because I can count 16 houses I lived in in a four-year period because we were moving so often, because we, you know, couldn't pay rent. I don't want a chance that the kids we have are going to, you know, be raised in an environment like that. I work my butt off. So I have a thriving career in in the fundraising industry, and then I own two other businesses. And and I do that because we went without so often that I have just this deep fear that if I don't hustle, we're not going to be okay. And I know that that's not healthy. And I know that there's dysfunction in it, but it's just a reality for me, right. That, you know, I understand that my priority for the family is to make sure they're cared for. And so I've set this structure up to do that. Um, but then in addition to that, my kids all, you know, if they, if I brought them in here right now and I said to them, you know, I love you, they say, Oh my gosh, would you stop telling us that? And I do that because I didn't hear it a lot from my dad as a kid. He was so focused on himself that he just, you know, we were sort of disconnected even when he was in the home. So I try to make a point, you know, multiple times throughout the day to pull my kids aside and to tell them, you know, you're important to me, I love you, you know, and not because you did this, but just because you're my child, right? Um, you know, in in my marriage, it's taken a long time to to, you know, to to get healthier. So my parents fought a lot.And I saw I mean, you know, it wasn't uncommon to have plates thrown across the room. I remember an ironing board flying across the room once and stuff like that.So I came into our our marriage relationship kind of unwilling to fight because I had seen the negative. The way that it could devolve, right. So when we would have an argument, I'd just be like, okay, whatever. Like, I mean, if it's not something that, you know, was a massive issue, I just let it go, right? Because I was like, Well, I don't want to fight about it because that's how you start throwing plates and ironing boards, you know, and I don't want that in this house. And, and, you know, a couple of years in, my wife and I had a fairly significant argument and she said, Look, when you just decide, you know, disengage and don't fight, that makes me think that you don't think I'm worth fighting for. And I was like, gosh, it's just the opposite. I was trying not to fight, so I didn't ruin this. But hearing that and understanding that, you know, now we have a much healthier kind of back and forth and a push-pull in those conversations. That's, you know, nobody throws anything. But but we have more robust, you know, arguments and discussions and dialog. And I hope and think that now she understands that, yeah, I do think our relationship's worth fighting for. But because of the way I, you know, what I experienced as a kid, I just was scared to death that if I did fight, it would end in us, you know, completely separated. Right? So things like that still come up almost every day. And I do my best to, you know, make sure that I'm creating more positives on the board for them than negatives. Doesn't always work out that way in the moment. But, you know, that's kind of the goal.

Todd Miller:

: 00:38:22

You know, you remind me of a story. So I guess this is personal sharing time here today, I don't know. But, you know, I grew up with a father who had a very quick temper and and he was a very ugly man when he was angry also. And I remember one time when my wife and I were childhoods, we were high school sweethearts. One time when we were dating, something tripped my trigger and I showed a little bit of that anger and fortunately saw it in myself. And, you know, quickly, said, Todd, you're sitting here with the best thing you've ever had in your life. You are not going to let this mess it up. And, you know, and I said, I'm not going to let that happen again and I'm going to figure out how to deal with conflict and things in healthy ways. And, you know, and fortunately, through the grace of God, I don't think I have let that hair-trigger anger show again. But by the same token, yeah, I mean, there's still times I'm trying to figure out, okay, how do you deal with conflict in healthy ways? And that can be a challenge. So all of that stuff stems out of our childhood so much, no doubt.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:39:33

Yeah, absolutely.

Todd Miller:

: 00:39:35

I kind of want to go back a tiny bit, you know, when you're talking about the story of, you know, when you're homeless and, you know, when this all first started to come down in your family. And now you can look back and you can see, you know, the saving grace of God. You can see his provision. You can see what he built into you to bring you to where you are today. It's tough to see when you're actually in it, though. And you have that faith background to try to help you to see it. But still, it's got to be when you're in the thick of it, you're just worried about surviving, don't you think? Or can people actually see God when they're in the midst of that sort of trial?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:40:19

Yeah, it's such a great question. And I think the answer is, is yes all around, right. I mean, I remember. I, you know, like it was yesterday, the negatives. So, I can recall a time that, you know, I walked in. It was probably like 2:00 in the morning and my mom was just like sitting at the kitchen table bawling in this little apartment that we were renting. And the reason she was upset was that we didn't have any food in the house to feed my brother and sister dinner. And so she put them to bed without dinner and they were cranky and crying and, you know, asking why. And then she knew that, oh, gosh, you know, 8 hours from now when they wake up, I'm just going to have to have the same conversation with them again. And, you know, so I don't feel like you see any hope in that. But at the same time, you know that the very next day, two days later, whatever it was, it was one of those situations where there was just a bag of groceries in her locker at work when she showed up in the morning. And so, you know, I know that she was praying every day, you know, and it was probably a very simple prayer of like, you know, God, just let us get through today. And so I think, you know, if you are open to looking into seeing those things, I think they are there and there are indicators. But at the same time, sometimes things are so bad that you just like you get this, you know, sort of myopic view. Like, you're looking through, you know, a scope ring on a rifle, right? You see only what's in the scope ring and you don't see everything that's outside that. And so, you know, if you're not looking and scanning and saying, Okay, well, you know, yes, this sucks. And what else is going on around me, right? I think so often it's really easy to get stuck in the yeah, this sucks and just really kind of let yourself wallow in it and it, you know, it's just human nature, right? It's we're, we're wired to, to, you know, kind of get focused in on something and not necessarily take a step back and consider everything else that's going on around us. You know, there are plenty of times when, you know, like we'd have $100 in the bank account and the washer or the dryer would go out. And we had bought the washer and dryer at a you know, at a thrift store. We had only paid $100 for them. So I'm like, okay, great. Now I gotta to spend another hundred bucks to to repair this and $100, you know, at that point in our lives, that might be, you know, two weeks worth of work. There's no way to turn around and and pay for those sort of things. And so we just literally would be like, okay, well, maybe we're just going to have to go with dirty clothes for the next month or two until we can figure this out, you know, or things like that. And so it's hard to see in those moments that that there's, you know, A, that there's a God and B, that he has a plan that's working out there. And so I think, you know, for a lot of these instances, it's a lot easier for me to see it now. And when I look back now, I can go, oh, I see exactly how those things line up in the moment. It was almost exclusively sort of a how do we survive? Not even how do we thrive, just how do we get through this kind of thing?

Todd Miller:

: 00:43:53

So one of the things I struggle with a lot is, okay, so I'm talking to somebody who's going through a traumatic, a difficult time. You know, what do you say to them? Because you want to plant that seed of hope, but yet you don't want to discount what they're going through. You don't want to seem trite. I really appreciate your wisdom. So I'm throwing all these tough questions at you. But what do you say to someone?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:44:19

I mean, I don't know that I have the answer on that. I think, you know, in part it's just sort of like being present with them. You know, I was talking to a really good friend of mine earlier this week who's had two deaths in her close community in the last couple of months. And she was saying she was asking, you know, what what do I say to this husband whose wife passed away and whose child passed away? Like, how do I even bring comfort? And I said, you know, I think at some point it might just be about being present while they process their grief. You don't necessarily have to be the expert who's saying all the things. It might just be about coming alongside them and saying, I know this is terrible. I don't have words that are going to make this better, but I will be here with you until you don't need me anymore. So I think that's part of it. I think there's you know, there's a lot of value in in not saying, how can I help you right now? I think oftentimes people are like, well, but that's how you be helpful, right? But when you think about the fact that, like, gosh, I'm going through this terrible thing, the last thing I want to do is sit here and brainstorm how you can help me. So, you know, when we were in the thick of crisis, what was most helpful was someone just showing up and saying, Hey, I'm going to mow your lawn so you don't have to think about that. Or, Hey, I brought a pizza over for the kids. Can I just leave this here? And, you know, you guys do what you need. Or my good friends who said, Hey, you got stuff going on that's making it impossible for you to live at home. Why don't you come stay with us? That took the emotional and mental energy off of me having to figure out the solution, to tell them to then help me. So I think, you know, it's often well-intentioned for people to say, How can I help you? But that that might not be the most effective way. I think sometimes it's just about saying, I've identified some things and unless you tell me not to, I'm going to do these things.

Todd Miller:

: 00:46:25

Yeah, I that's great advice and I love it. And, you know, I think guys in particular sometimes have to draw themselves back to do that. Because, you know, we kind of grow up with this, we can fix anything. I'm Bob the Builder, I can fix it, yes, I can sort of mentality. And so sometimes it takes a lot of extra for us to pull back and say, okay, I can't fix this. I'm going to look disingenuous if I try to fix this, but how can I help? How can I make things a smidge easier for them right at this moment?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:46:59

I would agree. You know, I think you're, you teetered on another topic, too, right? We as men are so bad at talking about our feelings and our emotions. And the rates of of addiction and suicide are so high for men because of that. And so, you know, I think part of the mission I'm on here and the reason I'm even talking about this kind of stuff is because the reality of of letting negative emotions and trauma fester are that, you know, people are leaving this world earlier than they should and and making eternal decisions because of short-term pain. And it doesn't have to be that way. You know, and so it is incredibly difficult for many men, myself included, to have these kind of authentic, painful conversations. But if we don't, we're just making things worse on ourselves. And so I, I think platforms like this and other places where where we can gather for for real conversations and and to just be able to say, yeah, this sucks today. I just need some space or I, you know, can I talk to you about this? I mean, if we don't have that, I think the results are pretty disastrous.

Todd Miller:

: 00:48:22

You're right. They can be absolutely devastating. And it's interesting you brought that up because before you joined us, we were just kind of planning out a future episode we're going to have where we'll have someone that talks a lot about suicide awareness and things. So perfect, a perfect setup for that episode coming forward. Well, so this has been just so helpful and thank you so much for sharing. I don't want to lose sight of. Can you remind our audience what you do for your career in case there's anybody out there that you might be able to help?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:48:57

Yeah. So I, I do a couple of things. I am the senior vice president of Fundraising Solutions at a firm called DickersonBakker. So what we do is we help churches, ministries and other 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 nonprofit organizations with two different things. We help them raise revenue to accomplish their mission, and we recruit talented people to serve in their organizations. And so, you know, day to day, that's that's most of what I do. And then I also I'm an investor in a promotional marketing business where, you know, things like T-shirts and hats and caps and all that kind of stuff. And my family and I also run a family farm where we we raise livestock and provide high-quality protein to the community. And we are also trying to use that to raise three healthy kids and, you know, make sure that they stay well.

Todd Miller:

: 00:49:52

Well, this has been great. I feel certain your story is going to help someone out there in our audience. We're close to wrapping up what we call the business end of things. Is there anything we haven't covered today that you'd like to share?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:50:05

Just that no matter how bad it feels today, there's hope. And you don't have to go through things alone. It just takes one act of of raising your hand and you don't have to suffer in silence.

Todd Miller:

: 00:50:26

Powerful, thank you. Well, to kind of switch to a little bit of a lighter area here, I'm going to ask you, and you did this last time you were on the show. If you're willing to participate in our what we call rapid fire questions. This is kind of old hat to you. Okay, awesome. Ryan, you want to alternate asking questions?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:50:49

Sure. I would be glad to. Do you want me to go first?

Todd Miller:

: 00:50:52

I'll let you go first.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:50:54

Okay, sounds good. Question number one, what product have you purchased that was a game-changer for you? Sort of like a where have you been all my life moment?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:51:07

I think so. I am sitting down right now, but I bought a Costco electronic standing like variable desk. It's the best $250 investment I've made in the last five years.

Todd Miller:

: 00:51:21

Awesome. What do you like about it? Just the fact it allows the blood to flow and lets you change position.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:51:26

That, and what I find is when I stand up, I kind of fidget a little bit and like my body, just like my feet move a little bit, my, my arms move a little more. And I, because of that, I'm able to focus more. Like, I find that when I move my body, my brain kind of keys in. So, you know, right now I'm sitting because I did a lot of farm work a couple days ago, and my back's hurtin'. But usually when I'm standing, I'm able to just get a lot more done and be really focused.

Todd Miller:

: 00:51:51

Cool. Very neat.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:51:52

Do you how, how often do you switch from up to down? Like, is it usually in one position?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:51:58

Couple times during the day.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:51:59

Okay.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:51:59

Like I might spend the first 4 hours standing and then sit for an hour or so and then go back up, you know?

Ryan Bell:

: 00:52:06

Well, I've gone back and forth and I found with a actually like a not a, not a desk that you can change, but that stays there. And I did a standing thing for like a month and I'm like, this is ridiculous. I can't stand this long. I need to go back to sitting. And I've got so now I have two desks actually, and I just go from one to the other when I when I need to, but I need to get one of the ones that is motorized.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:52:32

I'd say the other thing is invest in a really good padded carpet or mat because that was the other game-changer is like having that and being able to stand on something that's cushioned way better.

Todd Miller:

: 00:52:43

Question number two. Would you rather have to wear bellbottom pants all the time or have your hair in a mohawk?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:52:52

Oh man, umm. I guess I'd rather have to have a mohawk.

Todd Miller:

: 00:53:00

Interesting.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:53:01

I just don't think I could do bellbottoms. Yeah.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:53:08

I would go for the Mohawk just so I could have some hair.

Todd Miller:

: 00:53:10

Well, yeah, that's right.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:53:13

Question number three, Would you rather have the ability to see ten minutes into the future or ten years into the future?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:53:20

I think 10 minutes. I'm not sure that I want to know what's going to happen ten years from now. I mean, there could be benefit. But it also strikes me that I, you know, I probably just don't want that much information.

Todd Miller:

: 00:53:34

That would carry a lot of, yeah, lot with it. Interesting. Okay, next question. What is your favorite meal?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:53:41

My wife makes an amazing prime rib roast, so that's probably number one. But as close to number two would be carnitas street tacos in Southern California.

Todd Miller:

: 00:53:54

Awesome.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:53:55

That sounds good. Next question. Do you have a hidden talent?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:54:00

I don't think so.

Todd Miller:

: 00:54:03

That's a good answer.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:54:05

The world is aware of all your talents.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:54:07

Or lack thereof, I guess. Yeah.

Todd Miller:

: 00:54:14

I'm anxious to ask that question sometime and to have someone, you know, they can play music with their hand in their armpit or something like that, that's going to happen.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:54:23

Out of their nose or something. Yeah.

Todd Miller:

: 00:54:27

Okay. Next to last question. Do you consider yourself to be a morning person or more of a night owl?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:54:34

I am 100% a morning person. I get up at about 4:30 in the morning and I do my best at whatever I need to do for the day between like 4:30 in the morning and 10 in the morning. And then by like 4:00, I'm done.

Todd Miller:

: 00:54:48

That's that describes me to a T, except it's about 2:00 when I feel toast.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:54:55

Does part of that have to do with being on a farm and having farm responsibilities that need to be taken care of in the morning?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:55:02

It's certainly a benefit with that, but it just started for me when I was in college.

Ryan Bell:

: 00:55:07

Okay. Final question. Who is one person who has had a big impact on your life and how?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:55:14

That would be my my friend and mentor, a gentleman named Todd Bray. He's the executive director of a group called Downrange Warriors. And they are a suicide prevention program for veterans. During college, when I was going through all this stuff with my family, his his son was my college roommate, and I nearly walked away from my faith. And it was through his mentorship that I was able to regain that. So he'd be the one.

Todd Miller:

: 00:55:46

I knew you'd have a good answer to that, because behind every impactful person, there are more impactful people.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:55:53

Amen.

Todd Miller:

: 00:55:55

Good stuff. Well, Andrew, thank you again. For folks who want to get in touch with you, how can they do that?

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:56:02

Yeah. Easiest way is probably LinkedIn, Andrew Olsen. But if somebody wants to get in touch directly, they can get me at andrew@andrewolsen.net. And my cell is 612-201-1967.

Todd Miller:

: 00:56:17

Great, thank you. And I want to give another shout out to, you'd mentioned earlier Salvation Army and the work that they do with addictions and support. And I'm right there with you, a good organization that absolutely does a lot more than what most people think it does.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:56:31

Oh, my goodness, yeah. It's shocking how much work they do.

Todd Miller:

: 00:56:35

Well, thank you very much, Andrew. This has been great, great time with you always. And thank you for sharing very personal story with us.

Andrew Olsen:

: 00:56:42

Thanks again for creating a platform for this kind of conversation, really appreciate it, guys.

Todd Miller:

: 00:56:46

And I want to thank our audience for tuning into this episode of Construction Disruption with Andrew Olsen of DickersonBakker. Please watch for future episodes of our show. We're always blessed with great guests. Don't forget to leave a review, please, on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Until the next time we're together, keep on disrupting, keep on challenging, keep on looking for ways that you can help and impact others and have positive impact on their lives. So thanks again so much for tuning in. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.

Todd Miller:

: 00:57:21

Intro/Outro: This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building products.

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