This episode relates to Lesson 9 of Entrusted with a Child's Heart as Jen, Emily, and Stephanie discuss how Christian parents can discern if their child's emotions, will, or mind need to be addressed in a discipline issue. They also cover how to adjust if impulsiveness is at play and give encouragement if a strong will is wearing mom and dad out!

Scriptures Mentioned:

James 1:5

Philippians 4:8

Psalm 131

Proverbs 10:19

Books Referenced:

Winnie the Pooh

War of Words

Other episodes mentioned:

Our Partnership with God

Steph (2): They're the joyful agains

our children shout on the swings, the

2

exhausting agains of cooking and laundry,

and the difficult agains of discipline.

3

So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

4

So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called

5

to, and went to bed believing we

are faithful in what matters most?

6

We believe God's Word is

the key to untangle from the

7

confusion and overwhelm we feel.

8

Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

9

Welcome to the again, podcast brought

to you by interested ministries.

10

I'm your host, Stephanie Hickox.

11

And today I am joined by the

incredible wordsmithing Emily

12

deal and the wonderfully.

13

Why?

14

Stan Frackman.

15

We are talking about the heart of

a child and how it is comprised

16

of the mind will and emotions.

17

How do we get to the heart

of a child as we discipline?

18

Even if they're very

strong-willed or highly impulsive.

19

And sometimes that bundle

is wrapped up into one.

20

We feel you mama.

21

There's lots of encouragement

to press on when it's hard.

22

Though, I do want to say that

this episode is not intended to

23

be a comprehensive discussion.

24

If you are dealing with an impulsive

child, or a strong-willed child,

25

We're just weaving that into the

conversation on reaching the heart

26

of a child through discipline.

27

Stay tuned though.

28

We promise we will hit on those topics

again, as they are ones we have dealt

29

with extensively and continue to manage.

30

And Stuart in our home.

31

And if you're in the middle of

it, we encourage you to keep

32

pressing into the Lord for wisdom.

33

He promises that when we seek

him for wisdom, he will answer.

34

Dave's one five says, if any of you

lacks wisdom, let him ask God who gives

35

generously to all without reproach.

36

And it will be given to him.

37

I have to confess that lately

I've had some head-scratching

38

discouraging parenting.

39

Situations that have left me wondering.

40

So I am going to run to the

God of wisdom with you and ask

41

for him to continue to lead me.

42

And raising the children

that he has created.

43

That they would bring him glory.

44

And that he would guide me.

45

And how to point them to him.

46

All of this has made me think of

the recent eclipse that we saw.

47

So close after Easter.

48

And with my eclipse

glasses covering my eyes.

49

I stared up at the disappearing sun

that was now being eclipsed by the moon.

50

I couldn't help, but think about this

stone being rolled over the tomb.

51

Often in our darkest moments we think.

52

Where are you?

53

God.

54

What are you doing?

55

I can't see you working.

56

And yet when the stone rolled over

the tomb, God was absolutely at work.

57

He had powerfully redeemed his

creation from the curse of sin.

58

It was finished.

59

And waiting to be revealed.

60

And it makes you think about some of

those situations in parenting where it

61

just feels like you're seeing darkness

and you're wondering God, where are you?

62

Are you at work here?

63

May we believe that his glory

and his goodness still shines.

64

May we press into him.

65

So we can correct where we've gone wrong.

66

But also that we can remain steadfast.

67

In the wisdom he's already brought to us.

68

May you be blessed by this episode?

69

And continue to seek to point the heart

of your child to a perfect savior.

70

In this episode, we are diving into lesson

nine from entrusted, with a child's heart,

71

as it relates to the heart of a child.

72

Just to obey and to honor.

73

If you have taken interested with the

child's heart before, you've probably

74

noticed that Betsy said such a wonderful

foundation and the introduction

75

through lessons eight and it's.

76

practical throughout, but it truly

gets practical and lessons nine and

77

10, and you're just ready to apply

all of the wisdom in your home.

78

So, this is one of our favorites.

79

If you have never heard about

interested with a child's heart, it

80

is a biblical study and family life.

81

And I like to call it a

systematic theology of parenting.

82

It is the most comprehensive

resource I have ever seen.

83

On biblical parenting and Betsy wanted

something for every age and every stage

84

of parenting to be in every lesson.

85

So this is not something you take

just when you have babies it covers.

86

Toddlers to teenage years and beyond.

87

And if you haven't had a chance

to take it, we encourage you to

88

head to our website to learn more.

89

Steph (2): Jen Frechman and Emily Dio are

both here, and we're going to be sharing

90

some examples that we've experienced in

our own homes and with our own children

91

and how we have seen this play out.

92

Before we get into that I'm going to

ask, would you have considered yourself

93

a strong willed child when you were

growing up or even would your parents

94

have considered you a strong willed child?

95

How would you describe your temperament

96

?

Jen, I'm going to start with you on this one.

97

I think I have a better

idea of your answer here.

98

Jen: Okay.

99

So I definitely would say that my mom

would say I was a strong willed child.

100

A hundred percent.

101

In fact, I.

102

Would agree with her.

103

I remember being very strong willed like

I would be Walking to go put clothes away

104

in my room and my mom would say you need

to put your clothes away And I would turn

105

around and be like, yeah I'll do it later

and not want to do it just because she

106

had told me which I'm ashamed to say now

I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe it.

107

I was so horrible She used to get pretty

frustrated because I was very strong.

108

I would always question everything that

she was saying why did you have to this?

109

And what rules were I, was I breaking?

110

If you asked me to do this and just.

111

Different things like I they had a family

rule that I wasn't allowed to get my

112

ears double pierced until I was 18 for

whatever reason and she couldn't give

113

me an answer and it used to bother me so

bad and I would fight her on it so much

114

and now as an adult I can look back and

think I just needed to submit my will.

115

This was their decision and I needed

to submit to that but it bothered me

116

that she couldn't give me a reason

and now as an adult I realize.

117

I don't need a reason.

118

I need, and I don't need to understand.

119

My job is not to understand.

120

My job is to obey.

121

And sometimes even with the

Lord, he doesn't give us a

122

reason and we still need to obey.

123

So I definitely would say I was

strong willed and my mom would agree.

124

Steph: And you're the third born, right?

125

And your sisters are not

as strong willed, correct?

126

Jen: I am a third born and

no, my sister's Not at all.

127

She said they would

just say, don't do this.

128

And they would be like, okay.

129

And they wouldn't do it.

130

And the other one, she didn't even,

the firstborn, she didn't even

131

need to tell her not to do it.

132

She just never even thought of doing it.

133

So I'm like, I definitely

broke all the molds.

134

Steph: And then when she

wasn't expecting it, right?

135

She's probably felt good about oh,

this parenting thing's going well.

136

Jen: Yeah, yeah, that's what I should tell

137

Steph: Yeah,

138

emily, what would you say?

139

Emily: I would say I was

not a strong willed child.

140

I was pretty compliant.

141

I just was so concerned about

disappointing my parents that I just

142

didn't want to upset the apple cart.

143

And I know.

144

If mom's listening, I know

she would agree with me.

145

Usually just took a look from my dad and

I was just like, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.

146

So no, I was not strong willed as a child.

147

Jen: You're so

148

Emily: I no, that doesn't mean

that transferred to adulthood.

149

Steph: That's a follow up episode.

150

Yeah.

151

Emily: yes, that's a follow up episode,

but no, I, as a child, I just wasn't.

152

What about you, Steph?

153

Steph: I wasn't but I would

say I'm very strong on biblical

154

principles or convictions.

155

My dad would say to me, Stephanie,

everything's not so black and white.

156

I think on things that I thought were

moral, I, had a strong backbone but

157

advocating for myself I don't think so.

158

As I'm listening to us describe this,

I can see how our own temperaments

159

probably really come into play when

we're dealing with our own children.

160

Jen, I think you probably have a lot

of gumption and fight in you to deal

161

with the moments that your children

are strong willed, and Emily, you

162

and I have talked about getting more

tearful when our kids are disobedient.

163

I wonder how much that comes

into play in our own parenting.

164

Jen: For sure.

165

Emily: that's a very interesting thought.

166

I'm sure it comes into play a lot

in how we parent and how we even

167

just mold them in their thinking.

168

It, and it doesn't mean

any of it's right or wrong.

169

It's just how we're wired.

170

So interesting.

171

The first time I took entrusted.

172

One of the quotes that stuck

in my mind most from the study.

173

Was when Betsy says not

every child is strong-willed.

174

But any will left unchecked.

175

We'll be a strong, well, And that

was just so helpful for me because.

176

When I had my child with my strongest.

177

Well, I was just on high alert to make

sure I was being faithful to train him

178

to submit his well to my authority.

179

And then the child that

came after that one.

180

has such a sweet temperament and.

181

I was grateful for that saying in my head.

182

To remind me,

183

that I needed to be just

as diligent to train him.

184

Even though he was not requiring as much

of my energy and attention in other areas.

185

So for example, If he would

leave something on the floor.

186

Which was a little bit more.

187

That one's tendency.

188

I would just hear the Lord prompting me.

189

Still need to train him to be

faithful and, to be neat and tidy.

190

Even though you're happy to

do this for him because, he is

191

so easygoing much of the day.

192

Steph: And I would have to check

myself and of course they each have

193

their blessings and their strengths and

weaknesses and things that have been

194

really easy for me for both of them.

195

And then things that have been.

196

Emily: Mm

197

Steph: For example, when I told

my oldest, Alright, it's time to

198

get rid of your pacifier, he was

like, Alright, and he whipped it in

199

the garbage and never looked back.

200

Or, even potty training.

201

I can see how strong wills can be

really a blessing in some areas.

202

We each have a temptation to sin, whether

it masquerades as a strong will or

203

not, we are all capable of great sin.

204

We do need to be molded and shaped

and pointed to the Lord, whether,

205

those temptations are subtle or

much more in our parents faces.

206

Evident.

207

Emily: Yes in preparation for speaking

to this lesson today, I was going

208

back through and reading my own notes.

209

And it is amazing how the universal

language of the Bible meets every mom

210

where they are all in different places.

211

My children could not be more opposite,

complete opposite human beings.

212

And this lesson.

213

applied to them both

individually where they are.

214

I have one child who was

driven by impulsivity.

215

And then I have one child who needed,

full explanations for everything.

216

I will never forget going through

this lesson and thinking, okay, I am

217

equipped to do what needs done and

going home, telling my husband what I

218

had learned, and, then just being at a

loss because I was following all of the

219

principles that I was supposed to follow.

220

And I was still stumped because

the impulsivity reigned supreme.

221

And so this stage, and I'm talking like,

these are the young years of molding,

222

like the discipline years, like before

when you are just investing, investing,

223

investing before they even start school.

224

I remember many nights crying myself

to sleep because I just thought I'm

225

doing all the things I'm supposed to

be doing and none of it is working.

226

And praise the Lord for his goodness.

227

He always leads us to the right things.

228

But through this stage, when

we were dealing with just heavy

229

reaction we learned a few things.

230

We learned that When you have a child

who's driven by impulsiveness to

231

things, first of all, they have to

know, they have to know the boundaries,

232

and even more so than a regular child.

233

We all set boundaries for our children.

234

But when you have this this drive that

you're dealing with and impulsivity,

235

they have to know the boundaries, they

need help connecting the behavior with

236

the outcomes, because in the moment,

they're not always thinking about what

237

the consequence of their behavior will be.

238

They're just like, oh, matchbox car

grabbing and Speeding it across the floor,

239

but they're not realizing they're in a

room full of people and that's probably

240

not the best thing and so when we're

talking about dealing with children

241

in all of their different facets and

where they may be I just want to speak

242

to the mom who's dealing with the

impulsive child and you are disciplining

243

and you are doing all the things and

you're just totally at your wits end.

244

You're not alone.

245

First of all, and consistency

is completely the key.

246

When I stopped to think about all

these years and I talked to my husband

247

and I told him, what we were talking

about tonight, he was like, I wish I

248

could speak to this also because these

years fused us together in marriage.

249

Because we had so many conversations,

they brought us closer to our

250

child because we saw the struggle.

251

But we realized that consistency was key.

252

Immediate discipline was what was needed.

253

If we were at the store and something

had happened, something was touched

254

that shouldn't have been touched,

or whatever the parameters were

255

before we walked into the store we

had to deal with it immediately.

256

There was no wait till we get home.

257

That was our reality for a long time

we had to constantly reiterate we're

258

going into a store, put your hands in

your pockets, don't touch anything.

259

And then along the way give

praise that this was happening

260

that, obedience was happening.

261

But this lesson talking about the

will of a child and having their

262

heart and being in their world and

understanding where they're coming from,

263

all of this is covered in the lesson.

264

And it was just such a sustaining

goodness and a reinforcement that we

265

were on the right track and that through

some of our hardest years this was

266

just such a sustaining force to know

that we were doing it the right way.

267

We weren't seeing immediate fruit which

can also be discouragement when you're

268

walking through that time because the

fruit isn't immediate, it's over a

269

course of sometimes years but there

is light at the end of the tunnel.

270

So that's our experience parenting

a child with impulsivity.

271

Jen: We've been there as well.

272

I would say a little bit more as this

child has gotten older, just trying

273

to help this one, see that when you.

274

you enter a room and you're talking

before you even get into the room to

275

assess the situation if anyone's even able

and ready to listen to you, but you're

276

just shouting out what you want to say.

277

Like we've actually talked how,

and I know it sounds crazy, but

278

the author of Winnie the Pooh,

279

Said a little consideration,

a little thought for others

280

makes all the difference.

281

And we have said that so many times, just

consider others, think about this and,

282

talking through like when you're doing

these things, especially as an older

283

kid I agree with what Emily was saying,

when they're younger and the constant

284

disciplining of Nope, not this, that, not

this, that, put this off, put this on.

285

And the quick, happening of the

discipline to what, the offense was.

286

But as they get older and you

can have these conversations

287

with them okay, let's see what's

coming out of the heart right now.

288

And what is being portrayed here?

289

And really what's being portrayed is.

290

A lack of self control, a lack sometimes

of awareness, of self awareness, they're

291

growing and they're getting to be pre

teens and so they're still figuring

292

themselves out, but trying to help them

understand, like when you come in the

293

room, it's pretty selfish to just assume

that everybody wants to hear everything

294

you want to say when you want to say

it and for how long you want to say it.

295

And so just having the self awareness

to be like, okay, I don't need to say

296

everything that's going through my brain.

297

And I don't need that, that impulsiveness

of Oh, I have something to say on that.

298

I have something to say on that.

299

So do other people.

300

And you don't always have to be heard.

301

Dying to self a little bit.

302

Not being prideful.

303

Having self control is huge and

trying to understand your will.

304

You have control.

305

You have to exercise control over

your mind and over your will.

306

That has to happen.

307

It's not easy and it doesn't come easy.

308

I think it's something that has

to be taught, even as an adult.

309

I have to exercise

control over my own will.

310

Emily: Yeah.

311

Self control is a thing that has to

be taught, but when they're young,

312

I feel like some kids are just

naturally apt at having self control.

313

And some Might be a little harder.

314

Steph: Yeah,

315

Emily: so, yes.

316

So Having the patience to keep

working and honing and working with

317

them on it in the small years can

be really trying, but don't give up.

318

Keep, keep trying, keep doing it

because it will all fuse together.

319

But in those young years it is

hard to keep When you're constantly

320

coaching, it's just weary.

321

I remember those years being just weary.

322

I remember thinking.

323

Maybe there's just not an ability

to control, which is so silly,

324

I know, but when you're sleep

deprived, you think a lot of things.

325

And I thought maybe there just isn't

an ability, but, that's so wrong.

326

I think even more a lack of structure,

immense structure is so helpful when you

327

do have a child that just acts on impulse.

328

Structure is so helpful.

329

For you and

330

Steph: the expectations, right?

331

Emily: Constantly.

332

Steph: In Philippians 4, it says, Finally,

brothers, whatever is true, whatever is

333

honorable, whatever is just, whatever

is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is

334

commendable, if there is any excellence,

if there is anything worthy of praise.

335

Think about these things.

336

I've tried to communicate, especially

to my impulsive one is it true?

337

Is it lovely?

338

Did that have to come out?

339

Should it have stayed inside?

340

And it's hard because you

don't want to be nitpicky.

341

You don't want them to feel like

you're harping on these things.

342

And yet it's a worthy, it's a worthy

endeavor to help them strengthen them.

343

One Of.

344

My friends in my small group, she is a

school social worker and she said, she's

345

I've just learned you have to narrow

it down to as simple as possible and

346

say, is it helpful or is it harmful?

347

Is that helpful or is it harmful?

348

Before it comes out of your mouth, you

have to ask yourself that question.

349

And sometimes, making it as

simple as possible for them.

350

I think for me the difficulty is, if

we're looking at the heart of a child

351

being mind, will, and emotion, and you're

walking into the store, and the glass

352

bowl is already on their head before

they've thought about it, and I can

353

see in their eyes, Oh, I'm sorry, mom.

354

I didn't mean to do that.

355

And there's humility of heart and they're

repentant, but the bowl is already there.

356

They didn't even, there

was no intention in it.

357

So it's okay, this wasn't in your mind.

358

This wasn't willful disobedience.

359

It's not an emotion.

360

And I think it got me stuck for a while

about, I don't know what to do here.

361

I don't know.

362

I don't want to shame you, but it does

seem like there's such a difference

363

in ability and what you're capable of.

364

But then again, saying That one of the

fruits of the spirit is self control.

365

So I believe you may have to press

into the Holy Spirit even more, because

366

of who you are, but I believe that

you can be victorious with the Lord.

367

But, to frame it in a way

that's not shaming to them.

368

And I think that there are so many

strengths of people that are, quick

369

thinkers or quick reactors that God

can really use people like that.

370

However,

371

what a blessing when we can match that

quickness of thought with the self

372

control and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit.

373

There are so many Proverbs about when

words are many, sin is not absent,

374

and talking about how our words

need to be measured, but it, it's

375

definitely has left me very much Lord,

I don't know what to do in this area.

376

I think you both had really

great words for that and to not

377

give up, to not grow weary in it.

378

Because we will see a harvest if

we keep pressing on in the Lord.

379

Emily: We have to remember that

God gave our children to us.

380

And we have to trust in that and that

he will give us the wisdom that we need.

381

And we have to have the ability to follow

through and Not given to the weariness

382

of motherhood, then you have to just

be consistent and keep on following

383

through and trust that He knows.

384

He gave us our children and in His

great providence, He already knew

385

and so just lean into that also

has been a huge help and a huge

386

comfort to me throughout the years.

387

Jen: I agree.

388

I think When I would get overwhelmed

and frustrated with my strong

389

willed one while they were little,

I would just remind myself, at least

390

they're showing me their cards.

391

And in some instances, as embarrassing

as it is, or as frustrating as it is,

392

I could see exactly what was going on.

393

And there were times where it was

like, okay, I know their cards and this

394

is where this is off in their heart.

395

And let's pray about this and let's,

Ask the Lord to give us a different

396

temperament, a different, whatever the sin

is Lord, fill us with your Holy Spirit.

397

Help us to have this instead.

398

And so often with the ones that were

not as strong willed, I had to really

399

stop and be like, okay, wait, what?

400

What is this in here?

401

I don't see it as easily.

402

It's a little bit more hidden.

403

And so that is weary in a different

way because it's not showing the

404

cards and you have to pull it out.

405

But a wise person draws that

out and takes the time to do it.

406

Whereas with the strong willed one,

it's got to be dealt with and it's

407

got to be dealt with right away.

408

Emily: This is where I have written

in my notebook and Betsy must have

409

said this throughout the lesson

I wrote, be part of their world.

410

And I just thought how, when you're

talking about that, Jen how important

411

it is for us to be a part of their

world, to understand where they're

412

coming Every mom knows where the heart

of their child lies, and understanding

413

where they're coming from will help us

to act in, whatever we need to act in.

414

Whether it's encouraging them,

disciplining them or just working

415

on, honing Self control, but we

have the ability to do that.

416

We just have to be involved in their world

and ask the Holy Spirit for him to lead

417

us and reveal to us what we need to see.

418

Jen: totally.

419

I appreciate it in the lesson where

she talks about the difference

420

between the mind, the will, and the

motions and how the mind, you replace

421

it, the ignorance, with teaching

and how often we might do that when

422

it is an emotion or a will thing.

423

With a will, you don't teach it.

424

It's that will needs it.

425

That's rebellion and

that needs discipline.

426

You don't teach a will because they're

not even willing to, in that moment,

427

they're not willing themselves to

humble themselves to want to know.

428

So there's You, the, with the mind

it's ignorance and teaching, with the

429

will it's rebellion and discipline,

and with emotion it's you replace

430

discouragement with encouragement.

431

And I think so often we can see a child

who's disobeying and think, Oh, they

432

just need some encouragement right now.

433

They're having a hard time obeying,

but no, that's actually not it.

434

If they're discouraged because they can't

do something well or they're trying to

435

cut something and they're getting angry

because they can't get their little

436

fingers around the scissors and they

can't get it and they're frustrated.

437

Oh yeah, you're discouraged.

438

You just need some encouragement.

439

It's okay, sweetie.

440

We'll get it.

441

Let me help you.

442

Let me show you how I cut

and maybe that will help you.

443

That encouragement is different than

looking at some child who is even.

444

Even if it's a strong will, if they're

blurting out or they're coming around

445

the corner constantly talking and like

how that encouragement, it might not be

446

the thing that child needs at that point.

447

And I think in today's society,

encouragement becomes the number one.

448

Oh, just encourage the

heart of your child.

449

Encourage.

450

Yes, we do need to encourage

them, but mainly that's for

451

the emotional side of it.

452

And there also needs to be teaching

and discipline involved as well.

453

Steph: And even,

454

If it's a repetitive thing, which gets

into the will, we don't Have to keep

455

clarifying all the time what the rules

are, they've been laid before them If

456

it's been made clear to them, which

of course is a godly thing to make the

457

expectations clear to our children.

458

When Betsy says, you have them

repeat directions back to you often.

459

I think that's a step that can be skipped

so easily just because there's so much

460

in a day to day that we're asking.

461

But when we know they've received the

message and that they understand what the

462

store rules or whatever the standard is,

each time we're going into the library,

463

I'm like, tell me the three rules.

464

They do so much better in that situation

than in situations I haven't clarified

465

it to them but I don't need to have

a big talk for coming out of the

466

library and one of them was broken.

467

I had a situation last summer

with one of my children.

468

I'm going to try to honor them and

not overshare in this, but I feel.

469

That it might be helpful in talking about.

470

Discerning the mind the

will and the motion.

471

So this child was not honoring

the boundary that I had placed

472

and where they were allowed to

go outside without permission.

473

I really want it to be able to look out

my kitchen window or if I was working

474

at the kitchen table and I wanted

to be able to look out and see them.

475

And this child.

476

Given some different

circumstances in their life.

477

Was struggling with loneliness.

478

And they really wanted to be able

to have the same boundaries that

479

the other neighbor children had.

480

And they were frequently disobeying me.

481

Obviously, this is, oh, we'll issue.

482

So there was repeated,

discipline over this same issue.

483

And they were not honoring

my clear expectations.

484

So it was a matter of the well, But as I

tried to get to the heart of the issue,

485

it became so evident that this child.

486

Felt that they were experiencing

ed deficit and that they thought

487

they could make up for it.

488

By having more time with their friends.

489

it, it felt so much like Adam

and Eve and the garden, not

490

chesting the Lord's provision.

491

For them.

492

And I, I could just trace this.

493

if I allowed this deception

to continue in their mind.

494

That there would.

495

Be such a pattern of sin.

496

And excusing it because.

497

Of distrust in, in God's

goodness and God's provision.

498

And so I really wanted to make

sure I helped them understand.

499

do you see.

500

The lie that you're believing.

501

God has provided for you in so many ways.

502

And that he is not

withholding goodness from you.

503

But then they also.

504

Could hear the value of friendship

to this child and wanted.

505

It was just a good moment for me to

make sure that I was providing for that.

506

And allowing them to have opportunities

to develop great friendships, because

507

I know how important that is to me.

508

of course, as we were getting to

the heart of all of us, it felt very

509

emotional And so there was an element.

510

of letting the child know how much I

love them and that this boundary is

511

for their protection and their safety.

512

and they've been entrusted

to me and I want to steward

513

that gift onto the Lord and.

514

it really was.

515

a combination of the mind,

the will and the motion.

516

Though, of course, it was mainly a

well issue that had to be submitted.

517

And it was really neat to see

that even though it took many

518

hours of my summers so much time,

519

And it was exasperating at times.

520

That I could see by the end of the summer.

521

Wow.

522

This child has really submitted

their will to my authority.

523

And there's just a tenderness from

going full circle over and over that.

524

that I just saw a softening

in their hearts and it was.

525

Really a blessing to see.

526

Emily: I love that Steph.

527

I feel like as you're speaking, I'm

thinking through and relating on a few

528

levels because I have one who is strong

in mind And because this one is strong in

529

mind, it can lead to being strong in will.

530

And we often tell this one to turn their

inner attorney off so we can just have a,

531

Jen: I like that.

532

Emily: We're not defending anything here.

533

We're having a conversation.

534

You can disarm.

535

Because this one always goes in

with all facts and ready to give

536

them like at the drop of a hat.

537

And this one's mind is so quick.

538

I can't tell you that we are all

the way at the end, but I have seen

539

tenderness and I have seen a coming

around and this has come with many

540

conversations and lots of prayer.

541

But I do see that mind shaping and I

actually, Looked over in church a few

542

weeks ago and just saw sweet little

note taking and just fully engaged.

543

And I thought this is how the Lord

and his goodness changes our mind

544

and our will and conforms it to his.

545

And so we're not all the way

there, but the Lord is graciously

546

leading us in those places.

547

I think.

548

Isn't motherhood just this huge, long

journey that we're on and we're just,

549

we keep molding and shaping and praying

and giving it to the Lord over and over?

550

Jen: Totally.

551

I get such encouragement from Psalm 131.

552

There's a couple of verses

that say, I wait for the Lord.

553

My soul waits.

554

And in his word, I hope my

soul waits for the Lord.

555

Oh Lord, my heart is not lifted up.

556

And then it goes on to say, but I

have calmed and quieted my soul.

557

I find as an adult, especially as I wait

on the Lord to work in my kids hearts on

558

things that as they're getting older and

we're not seeing the immediate discipline

559

fruit, we're not seeing maybe the changes

that we would hope for them or things

560

that just are going to be a while before

the Lord changes their heart in it.

561

And so you're just Quietly praying as

unto the Lord and lifting that child up

562

that the Lord would change their hearts.

563

I find myself having to

quiet my soul as well.

564

because my will can be like I can make you

obey as an older child, I can make this

565

happen, but I really want the heart there.

566

I'd rather just wait on the Lord

to change the heart so that there's

567

true repentance in his timing.

568

And allowing my heart to also be

quieted and calmed as I wait on him.

569

Because sometimes as they get older,

it's hard in those teen years.

570

There's some things that they need to

make a decision for themselves that

571

I wish I could just make for them.

572

Like I used to be able to a little

bit more when they were toddlers,

573

and so going back to that about the

mind, will and the emotions, even as

574

the parent, I have to quiet my soul.

575

And I even said that.

576

To one of the kids this week that I

need to quiet my soul as well and

577

there's this prayer that I got from

one of these books that I read.

578

I believe it was War of Words.

579

I think I've quoted about that one before.

580

But this is a prayer that I

pray often in my quiet time.

581

It talks about using our

words wisely and it says.

582

I admit that I have not always

recognized that my words belong to you.

583

I have not faithfully communicated

according to your example and plan.

584

I have claimed my words and my tone as

my own to be used for my own purpose.

585

I have listened to the great deceiver

and at many times and in many ways

586

spoken more like him than you.

587

I ask for your forgiveness,

Lord, and I plead for your help.

588

I know that you alone are

able to tame my tongue.

589

I offer my talk back to you that

I may speak up to your standard

590

and according to your design.

591

Help me not to tear down my own house.

592

Help me speak little with great

wisdom, and please gain me my

593

children's hearing and heart.

594

Help me pray more and lecture less.

595

Help me not to guilt

or shame them, Father.

596

And I just find as we're teaching

these older kids, there's so much

597

prayer that goes in because they

need that heart change to happen.

598

Emily: Yes.

599

Jen: And it takes a little bit

longer as they're older, sadly,

600

and hard, but yet you want that.

601

We want the Lord to be able to do

that and to see that fruit eventually.

602

I want it to be real fruit, not just.

603

to please mom or dad.

604

And I believe she says that in the

lesson too, about what motivates them.

605

I want them to be motivated at this age.

606

I want them to be motivated by

desiring the Lord and to glorify him.

607

And yes, I want them to love me enough

that they would want to obey me as well.

608

But it's past the I just want to obey

so that I can, you I have a happy heart

609

so I feel good about myself or all of

those things as they get older and they

610

can understand more of how the Lord

works in their hearts and their lives.

611

A lot of it is talking them through

with those things and just us waiting on

612

the Lord to change their heart as well.

613

Emily: Yes, as you were talking, Jen, I

was just thinking behavior modification.

614

It's not about behavior modification.

615

It's about heart work.

616

And when we're talking heart

work, it's never immediate.

617

Even in our own lives.

618

It's over the course of time

and sanctification and the

619

Lord continuing to work.

620

It does say here, I love this.

621

I underlined it and And I think

I'm going to type this out so I

622

remember, but she says, Discipline is

not the payment for the child's sin.

623

It is the boundary around his will.

624

Jen: I love that.

625

I have that on your lines as well.

626

That was so

627

Emily: that is so good.

628

How did I forget about that?

629

But that,

630

Steph: Yeah.

631

Emily: think, often it's so

hard for us to I think just as

632

moms, we feel guilty anyways.

633

But we can't feel guilty about

Taking the time to invest in

634

shaping, disciplining, and molding.

635

That's actually so loving.

636

It's unloving to not take the

time to invest in discipline and

637

discipling and and boundaries.

638

So it's such a loving thing that we do.

639

It is a hard thing and it would

actually be easier to sign off

640

and just hope for the best.

641

But that's just not an option for us.

642

Jen: No.

643

I also had in here that she may have

said it years ago and I don't remember

644

if it was, What cycle I took and when

she said it, but it was something

645

about praying for your children and

that if you really think about it, a

646

mother, like a parent, I should say

the parents and maybe the grandparents,

647

if you have Christian grandparents

are probably the only people that will

648

consistently pray for your child.

649

I need to take that so seriously that

I'm constantly lifting this child up.

650

And just this afternoon, we

were sitting on the steps.

651

That's where we do a lot of our discipline

talks and we talk about our heart and

652

everything, and I was with a child

this afternoon and just asking the Lord

653

to please work in this child's heart.

654

Here's the sin we've dealt with it.

655

We've disciplined, we've moved

forward, but Lord, we need you

656

to work in this child's heart.

657

We need you to change.

658

And, And we are asking and pleading

for you to help us and to help this

659

one and to change this thing and

just waiting on the Lord in that.

660

Just being mindful that we need to be

lifting our kids up in prayer and I'm

661

so thankful that my mom and I, my kids

grandparents are huge prayers that

662

they're constantly praying for them.

663

And I'm so grateful for that.

664

Steph: It reminds me of the

episode that we talked about our

665

partnership with God and that we can't

actually bring about sanctification

666

and we can't save our children

667

Emily: Yes.

668

Steph: and, When we take that

upon ourselves, that's when it

669

gets so, it's too much to bear.

670

Really, we're just faithfully pointing

them to the Lord and faithfully working

671

through these situations, holding

that mirror up so that we can, in a

672

loving way, see, do you see your sin?

673

Do you see your need for a holy savior?

674

And when we understand, like you were

saying, Emily, the quote of discipline

675

is not the payment for their sin.

676

It's really helping them

understand the need for Christ.

677

And I think it all does push us to have

a greater reliance upon prayer and.

678

And in a society when solutions

are running rampant,

679

of the things we could try or to do, but

nothing is more valuable than getting on

680

our knees and pleading for our children.

681

So yes, Lord, please convict us, draw

us to our knees, draw us to reliance

682

upon you as we are guiding our children

and a humility that we would be.

683

Quick to recognize where we're

lacking in one of these areas that,

684

that we can model for our children,

what it looks like to recognize

685

our sin and to take it to the cross

686

Emily: yes.

687

The lasting solution is never a quick fix.

688

, we are inundated with quick fixes

and reels and And just all the

689

things we're inundated with it but

the lasting change comes through

690

yielding and yielding and yielding.

691

I think also it's our children

seeing us doing that ourselves

692

and asking the Lord to constantly

change our hearts and our lives.

693

Steph: And when we see their sin as sin

before a holy God and not an offense to

694

us personally, that really That diffuses

any anger we might have, any frustration.

695

We all have a sinful nature and it doesn't

have to be so offensive to us personally.

696

It's offensive before a Holy God.

697

And then when we take that step back

and see the problem for what it is, we

698

can deal with it in a much calmer way.

699

Thanks again for listening.

700

We are so grateful, but in all

you have to do, you chose to

701

spend some of your time with us.

702

Before you go, we'd like to

ask you for a little favor.

703

If you've been listening to

our podcast and enjoying it,

704

would you please write a review?

705

This helps podcast platforms recommend

us to other moms that are looking

706

for Christian parenting influences.

707

We also ask that you would help

spread the word to your friends.

708

Take a second and share this

episode or another favorite.

709

Whether it's a friend

that's near or far away,

710

it would truly bless us if you

would help spread the word.

711

So that God's word makes its way

into as many homes as possible.

712

We know you're busy, Mama, so

we are truly grateful you joined

713

us for this episode of Again.

714

If you're looking for more information

about building your home on the

715

foundation of Jesus Christ, head to www.

716

EntrustedMinistries.

717

com to learn more about our study for

moms, Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

718

This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

719

world, and we want it for you, too.

720

Before you go, I want to pray

this benediction over you

721

from 2 Thessalonians 1, 11 12.

722

We're rooting for you.

723

To this end, we always pray for you,

that our God may make you worthy of His

724

calling, and may fulfill every resolve

for good and every work of faith by

725

His power, so that the name of our Lord

Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in

726

Him, according to the grace of our God.

727

And the Lord Jesus Christ.

728

Amen.

729

Until we meet again.