Maybe you just received a diagnosis, maybe you're in the thick of one. But this guided meditation playlist is meant to help you attune to the inner turbulence, not bypass it, but also attune to it in a way that you're gonna be able to help yourself actually metabolize the heavy emotions, the confusion, the overwhelm.

She obtained her master's degree in human genetics and genetic counseling, as well as an integrative health coach certification. She established her own practice, golden Genetics, to introduce an integrative approach to genetic counseling and testing, combining it with nutrition and nutrigenomics. She focuses on cancer, neurology, and nutrigenomics, and her aim is to provide unparalleled personalized care and genetic counseling and testing.

And I have to say, I feel like I had written off genetic testing, and Natalie and I talk about this because I think the conventional approach to genetic testing is. Pretty binary. And in my personal experience not that helpful in terms of actually equipping you to be able to make really powerful changes outside of just doing additional screening each year.

And I was asking her questions about, for someone who doesn't have a diagnosis but just wants to continue upleveling their health, focus on longevity, how can her genetic testing be supportive of them? And so we talk on that for a good bit. But then we talk really specifically as well about foreign individual who is.

Experiencing cancer, experiencing a chronic illness, how can genetic testing be a game changer in their treatment protocols? So this was everything and more. I, like I said, I'm so impressed with Natalie, her professionalism, her expertise, her kindness, her empathy, and I think you guys are gonna love her. So please enjoy Natalie Samson.

And I heard about you through Danielle and Heather who've both done genetic testing with you and were absolutely raving about it. It has been such a game changer for them. And so I was like, okay, we gotta get this girl on. I gotta see what she's about. I love that. So I'm, I'm really, really excited. It's really fun to get to interview someone kind of like in our close personal network.

Totally. Um, who's also local, but can you walk us through, I always love starting with a little bit of an origin story, so can you walk us through how did you get into genetic counseling? In listening to one of your previous podcasts you had done, you also talked a bit about your specialty in this space, but also how you used to work kind of in a hospital or in a conventional setting, and what ultimately took you to bringing your own practice.

Um, but I feel like the biggest thing was, you know, I went, I, I fell in love with genetics and learned about genetic counseling as a profession in my undergrad and I was like, oh my God, this is the way to understand the human body from the most micro scale we can get. You know? And that fascinated me. And so, um, after going into to, uh, you know, in my grad school, I realized that I loved working with cancer patients.

I really liked working with cancer patients on their genetics because that specialty specifically really allowed us to have knowledge ahead of time before symptoms appear and then be proactive and preventative about it. So I was really drawn to going into cancer originally. Um, and so that led me to work at a hospital in oncology.

Um, and so when I was working at the hospital, I felt like this kind of disconnect from that world, and I noticed that. We weren't actually treating patients from a preventative proactive model. We were treating patients in more of a reactive model where we would mm-hmm. Mostly all my patients were diagnosed already, but then I had, you know, the ability to then test their family members.

And, and I was kind of mind blown with how no one was talking about nutrition or lifestyle on not only risk, but also during treatment. And so all of that kind of led me to exploring. More pieces of genetics such as nutrigenomics and fun functional genomics, and really wanting to lean more into not only the proactive and preventative side, but also like kind of the functional, personalized side.

Um, and I just, I felt like, uh, you know, it was so hard of being at the hospital with kind of that restriction on not being able to practice that way. So that's what ultimately led me to, to start my own practice, to kind of bring that integrative, holistic approach to the genetic counseling and testing world.

Had a mutation of the ATM gene. Yeah. None of the BRCA, but the ATM gene. Yeah. And, but this is what I'm so excited to talk to you about is how is it different? Because my experience with that conventional doctor, was he literally at 25, I was 25, told me you have the ATM gene. This is worse than the BRCA gene.

You really should consider a preventative double mastectomy. Oh, no, that's, that was his solution too. You have this gene, here's what you can do to be preventative. And I just at that point was like, this doesn't resonate with me at all. If this is what genetic testing is, I, I'm not on board. I don't think it's that helpful.

In the conventional medicine world, genetic testing is used in that way to push mm-hmm. You know, a few very, very specific things. And there's actually so much more we can be doing with that. Totally. Yeah. And I feel like, um, it's so hard to hear about your experience, but it is so common and, you know, I think unfortunately a lot of people have kind of that, that experience when they're introduced to genetic testing, especially, you know, when done from someone who maybe isn't a genetic counselor.

And so I always like to explain to my patients too, you know, when we're looking at cancer genetics. I like to explain what the, I always tell my patients like, really we need to understand what the gene is doing in the body. And then that helps us understand how can we support that. And so the cancer genes, they actually are in charge of protecting us against cancer.

And so if someone has a mutation or a change in one copy of one of those genes, it just means that they might have less protection against cancer. And so, you know, some, like we don't always have to jump to surgery. There's so much we can do with that risk to protect us against cancer. And so that's my favorite thing is, like you said, I wanted to understand, you know, without having to, to talk about just those limited options for people.

But those pathways spec specifically I love to look at with, with when we're assessing risk of cancer. Because if someone has at high chance of having oxidative stress, you know, maybe their body can't handle oxidative stress as much, then we can be really targeted on, okay, so, you know, potentially their risk could be coming from.

Ox state of stress, how can we reduce that or, you know, help, help, um, the body handle, you know, r oss. And so that would be diet wise, you know, lifestyle. So can we use, for example, can we reduce pro oxidizing things out of the environment? Can we, um, look into getting more antioxidants in your daily routine and then, you know, potentially looking into supplementation like coq 10 or you know, what's offered at a cent for reduction of oxidative stress.

Um, and so, you know, before like jumping to something ser like so invasive, if someone, you know, is not wanting to do that, I always wanna help people understand there's so much you can do in your environment and your lifestyle, you know, and, and that it's not, it's not something that we should fear, it's something that we can use to our advantage to personalize that approach.

Is it, I have the ATM gene and other people don't, or is a more appropriate way to say it? Everyone has an ATM gene. I have a mutation of that gene that could lead to something. Exactly. Yeah. And so the way that it works is basically everyone has two copies of each gene. We get one from her mom and one from her dad.

And these genes have these letters on 'em that act like instructions for our bodies to do something. Um, just to back up to basically inside our cells, we have these structures called chromosomes. And if we stretch out the DNA material inside the chromosomes and segment certain parts, that's what we call genes.

No one has a perfect genome. Right, exactly. So, so I always, I always say that to people because you know, it's, some people have this, some people have that, and so it's like, how can we work with what changes we can identify through genetic testing? And so, and then the other thing I always like to say is that sometimes changes can occur through human diversity.

And so when we're doing genetic testing for health, we are looking for changes that, um, do impact the gene function. And so, like you mentioned, it's, it's a common misconception that people think, oh, you know, you have the gene or you don't, but it's actually, do you have a misspelling or a change in one copy or both of a certain gene that, you know, can, can lead to implications.

What I love about Apollo is that it works through gentle, soothing vibrations. You can wear it on your wrist, your ankle, or clip it to your clothing. You don't have to stop what you're doing. I wear mine while working. I wear it while I sleep, and I love how their results are backed by real science. In a number of published studies, Apollo users saw a 25% increase in heart rate variability, one of the strongest markers of nervous system resilience.

And it's something that I recommend to clients all the time because it's so gentle. Non-invasive is backed by science and is so, so accessible. Click the link in the show notes below and you'll get $60 off your Apollo or use discount code TheAccrescent for $60 off. You gave a great analogy that genes are like instruction manuals, I think is what you said.

Exactly. Yeah. And so the body or our cells, like when it comes across that gene, it's reading the instruction manual and then acting accordingly. So. Let's say for example, maybe we use the ATM mutation. How would the, how would the instruction manual of maybe a normal ATM gene be different than a mutated ATM gene?

Right, right. So it's that, that other copy. So I always like to say like, if we're, if we're, you know, pretending our, our chromosomes are chapters in a book and you know, each sentence is a gene. It would be like as if you're reading a book and the sentence maybe is reversed or there's a word deleted or there's a duplicated word and the body kind of gets confused on how to interpret that sentence.

And so for the most part, the body kind of actually doesn't pay attention to it. It shuts it off. And so it only reads the other copy that the sentence structure's normal. Mm-hmm. And so that's what we call, you know, mutation. Sometimes, you know, these, these changes in the sentence structure, for example, or in the gene are more or less impactful.

I could have a mutation of my ATM, the person next to me could also have a mutation of their ATM, but they could be completely different mutations. Exactly. And, and that's actually super important because, um, I've actually, you know, I've definitely worked with patients who have maybe worked with, um, you know, others that order their tests and didn't know how to interpret genetics.

And so the, the mutation and the change difference of the gene actually has implications on, you know, risk percentage, but also like how to manage it. And so, yeah, so important to know the actual like change in spelling of the gene that you have, not just assuming, you know, I have this, you know, mutation, so it's the same as everyone.

Someone else's ATM mutation might be my guy. My body only sends 10 soldiers to go fight the cancer. And I think that's kind of just representing, like you could have a mutation, but it's still not really that severe or threatening of a mutation. Exactly. And, and so that's Yeah, [00:20:00] exactly the point. And then, you know, I think that what, what we love to do too in the practice is, um, you know, with that information, can we one, you know, help you, um, to not only, so like there's kind of two pieces of it with cancers.

One, when you have a mutation, okay, we definitely know cancer, you know, caught early is better than cancer caught late, like you were saying, um, with stage zero. So, um, you know, we wanna be proactive in, in figuring out what, what feels best for you in, in the ways that we can be proactive there. But then the other piece that's like never discussed in conventional medicine is, well, how can we prevent the cancer cells from, from happening in the first place?

Um, but in general, you know, I think people either think it's like way nature or way nurture and it's mm-hmm. It's usually always a mix of both. And we really need to understand, you know, what the gene is and like what genes or genes, how can they be shut off or on using our environment. So for example mm-hmm.

Some genes are super, you know, I think people kind of don't think about it this way, but some, some genes are very impactful in our body. And so having a mutation in those genes, um, can 100% give a genetic diagnosis. So that would be like cystic fibrosis, down syndrome, pediatric conditions. Right. And so in those conditions, obviously, um, you know, we can't necessarily use our environment to, to change that diagnosis, but the majority of our genes and changes in genes do fall into like medium to low penetrance.

If someone's eating the standard American diet mm-hmm. Versus someone eating a very right anti-inflammatory diet, you know, it'll shut those genes on versus keep them on. So even though someone might be ex predisposed to chronic inflammation, we can still, uh, support the, the epigenetics piece, the turning on and off those pathways.

It's only referencing the good, healthy manuals. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So to that end though, we also, like if the body does go read those manuals, there's a way to also turn it off. So there's things we can do to make sure they don't turn on. Exactly. But also even that isn't, you know, a sentencing where, and if some of those genes did get turned on, what you're saying is we also can do things to turn them back off.

And you know, sometimes if some, if a gene, for example, some genes will be red, um, because it's just part of like innate biology, for example. Mm-hmm. An easy one is the melatonin gene, like everyone needs it to sleep, so. Mm-hmm. You know, but like you said, you know, blue light turn on or off, you know, that pathway.

A big part of my job with patients is to, um, talk with them about how much influence environment has on this versus that pathway, and then what can we do to support, you know, what we find. Yeah. The reason I'm feeling excited about this is because there's so much, there's so many amazing lifestyle changes and nutrition recommendations and modalities and treatments that we could all just kind of do willy-nilly.

It could be something that had the potential to be super beneficial for you, but because there's maybe certain pathways or genes that are active, there's like a missing element that's not allowing you to get the optimal results out of certain treatments. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And that's where it's really, you know, I think a lot, we all want functional genetics and I mean, we all want functional health where we are looking for the root cause.

And I feel like genetics can really help us do that. So a lot of people think, you know, it's just about risk, but it's not, it's so much more than that because it's, it's really, a lot of times we can find root cause of things and also personalize things. So it, it takes it from, you know, just eating healthy or you can find so much on the internet as, you know, as in your specialty about cancer prevention.

I always, I always say the, the quote that. You know, genetics is not your life sentence. It should be your starting point because mm-hmm When you're able to, to start at the most micro scale of your body and get to know it, then you're able to really just dive into, you know, what would work best for you.

Yeah. And a point you made in your previous conversation was, for the most part, it's one and done. You do this deep dive testing, you do your counseling, and you have that information that you can take to every other single doctor practitioner for the rest of your life. Yeah. And that's huge. It kind of makes me go like, the sooner we can do this, the better.

Mm-hmm. But for the most part, for like functional genomics specifically, I think it's so helpful for parents because like you said, it is, um, you know, for example, if someone is predisposed to diabetes because they are really prone to high highs and low lows when it comes to blood sugar spikes, then parents know, okay, we really wanna focus for the, for the, this child on, like making sure they're protein and fiber and healthy fats in their meal.

And so it's so helpful to be able to, to have that knowledge and start early, you know. You guys know I have loved SymbioticA supplements for years. I had to jump on and share with you guys a couple brand new products. They just came out with their liquid colostrum and their liquid Sheila G Complex. But I also wanted to point out some of the general benefits we colostrum, I think has been such a hype right now.

It's amazing for gut health immune resilience repairing at a cellular level. Colostrum has over 200 different functional nutrients that help with growth factors, antibodies, peptides that seal the gut lining, help balance the microbiome and even support skin health. But most colostrums come in powder form.

Their liquid Sheila Jett Complex contains 84 trace minerals. It's known to boost cellular energy, mitochondrial function, hormone balance, and detox pathways, giving your body a lot of the raw materials it needs to be able to run better at every level. I have been loving taking both of these. Like I said, it has been so easy and seamless to work these into my daily routine and they taste delicious.

And so these liquid supplements are just so easy for my digestion. It's a nice break from all the capsules. So check the show notes below for a link to learn more. And you can use discount code Lee and Lindsay, I think what I wanna, there's like two distinct things in my head, but if the answers are kind of the same for each of them, we'll just talk about them together.

But I do wanna talk about what this looks like for someone who doesn't have a diagnosis. Um, and what this might look like. Someone who's coming in, going, great, I hear you. I wanna be preventative. I'm pretty healthy. I don't have any severe diagnoses, but I wanna optimize things. What that might look like and how that can be helpful.

And yeah, they are, they are separate. Um, okay. The way, yeah, the way that I, it feels like the implications could be a little bit different for each of them. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Let's start with the, the like general prevention. Someone who doesn't have any severe diagnoses. Maybe they're having symptoms, maybe they're like, you know, I can't really lose weight that much, or, yeah, I do have some totally mild chronic pain or sleeps off, but there's no actual severe diagnoses.

And so we don't have that. And the reason is because, you know, even with people have heard of whole exome sequencing or whole genome, but even with that, you know, that's, there's actually caveat to that is not everything's reported. And so we actually have to, we have to, um, choose what tests would be beneficial for someone.

Um, mm-hmm. With that being said, I do think that the functional genomics panel that I order, I pretty much order on everyone because it's always useful for anyone. And then the layer on top of that is I always in the first session will take a detailed family history, um, because family history is so helpful for us to not only choose the right test, but also interpret with context and help us understand inheritance patterns.

There's a lot of like specialized tests we can add on pharmacogenomics. Mm-hmm. Um, but. Uh, you know, we kind of start with this baseline and then we can kind of see, and then, you know, of course if someone's adopted, that's okay. 'cause we can kind of cast a wide net and, you know, and, uh, run kind of proactive, like a larger proactive panel.

But the functional genomics panel is really where we get the most information for anyone because we're not only looking at the cellular pathways. Like I mentioned, I mean, histamine's a big one. I feel like with a, a lot of people, like helping them understand, I see a lot of autoimmune patients so we can understand uhhuh like CS versus, you know, like, uh, CS versus um, uh, MCAS versus, you know, this can help us clarify that.

Someone, you know, scores, power versus endurance. I'm like, oh, so now we understand your body and how to support training better. Sports. Sports, genetics is fascinating too. So we put that there. Oh my god. Oh yeah. Yeah. And we test for the celiac genes. We test for nutrient absorption. And so, you know, it's such a, it's a big panel and you know, memory and brain health, mood and behavior, even like dopamine, serotonin genes.

So we're always getting, we always are getting something. And so, you know, I've had patients where, you know, we do figure out their celiac and they're like, oh my god. This whole time, like I thought it was dairy, or we do figure out that they have, you know, a, a gene that, um, uh, makes it harder for their body to convert like T four to T three antibodies and thyroid.

Like what specifically may you not metabolize to, to raise your cholesterol? And, you know, there's the Alzheimer's gene. So there's so many examples of where we kind of just look and then we always find something, even if it's just like, what exercises may work better for your body? So I think it's, it's really helpful and, you know, can be helpful.

In a lot of different ways, even supplements, like, you know, it's not like we, um, obviously I don't endorse my own supplements or have my own products, but we'll talk about different ones that might work better for someone when we go into methylation or omega threes. Like, do you have the ability to break this down in your diet or would you benefit from, you know, supplementation to raise your Omega-3 index?

Exactly. That's huge. And, and because there might be someone out there who's like, gosh, I've just, I've been running miles and miles a day for years. Um. Whatever, maybe I feel okay, but like I don't feel great, but I know I'm supposed to be doing this. I know it's supposed to be good for me. And then they realize, oh, maybe I'm not feeling so great doing this, even though it's maybe objectively a good thing to do.

Yeah. Because it's that not the right kind of thing for you. I think same thing with supplements, right? When it comes to methylation or absorption of different things, you might be taking a supplement, but because you have some kind of mutation, you're barely absorbing it or maybe not even absorbing it at all.

Yeah, you just made me remember. This is such an interesting, uh, gene that I will find on, on people's reports sometimes, and it's actually a gene that relates to, um, melatonin and insulin. And oftentimes it actually also predicts chronotype. So people who have variants in this gene usually have a tougher time falling asleep early and they like to sleep in.

And we actually have found in research that people with this gene benefit from, they usually wake. These people also usually wake up feeling very full or nauseous. And we found in research that it's actually beneficial for those people to wait and fast in the morning until they're hungry to eat breakfast, which is such a, like, big example.

So I feel like this is so, it's so freeing sometimes for patients, you know, that, that they're like, oh no wonder. Like it's so, it feels so much better in my body to do that. And I was trying so hard to, you know, follow the standard advice and it wasn't working so completely. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just validating.

Even though to some extent we are attuned to our bodies. I think it can be hard, especially when there's a lot of social rhetoric or the people in your circles who are doing a thing and noticing all these benefits and then you're doing it and you're not noticing that maybe you're even feeling worse.

Any injuries and things like that? Is that relevant at all? 100%. Yeah. So we, we do personal history and depth too. Um, which obviously, you know, I think. That gives us context into what's going on potentially in the body right now. So I love genetics 'cause it helps us see in the future, but also what could be going on now and so mm-hmm.

With symptoms. And also I do like to, you know, assess if people have done, you know, recent blood tests, we can see okay, maybe something is already expressing or what they're doing, maybe a certain habit is actually helping that gene shut down. So that's really helpful for us to, to put into context when we're creating recommendations and understanding the way the person's body is working.

So it helps us, it, it helps us understand that better. Yeah. Well, and since we're here on that topic of ai, how is what you are doing through your practice different from something like 23 and Me or some of the other, like really, really popular kind of at home solo tests? Yeah, so there are so many direct to consumer genetic tests now, and it's blown up so much because genetic testing, you know, obviously we've studied, as I'm sure you know, with, with your PhD, we always study kind of the history of the profession, so Totally.

And so, mm-hmm. There's plus and minuses to that. But, um, I always say like, really, really be careful with direct to consumer tests. 'cause um, there's, there's lots of reasons. Like one is some genes actually are at high risk of having false positives and false negatives. So, you know, can we really like, trust the data we always use clinically, you know, like actionable and like appropriate labs.

Um, but then the second piece is, um. Genetic tests, pick what genes they think is most important to test for you. Mm-hmm. And so you're, when you're not meeting, like when, when we're looking at it, you know, we do contract with different labs. We don't get anything out of using any labs. We just find the ones we trust, but we always assess, okay, what genes do we wanna make sure are on this panel?

Mm-hmm. So sometimes people are like plugging it in and, and we're like, well actually, you know, some of these don't even apply to you. Or, you know, you know, a lot of times it's like, we don't wanna just look at one single gene, we wanna look at pathways. Uh, like M-T-H-F-R for example, has kind of come up in that situation.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so, you know, that's a big, that's a big reason. And then another big reason besides the human interpretation being so important to put everything into. To not only context, but help you understand how this applies to, you know, potentially future family or your children or your parents. Um, but also, um, privacy concerns.

Sometimes, um, life insurance, long-term care and disability insurance has partial protection. And so just much more, it's just very important to treat this as a medical test because it is, and go through, you know, like a HIPAA compliant medical practice with someone who knows, you know, genetics rather than trying to figure out, figure it all out on your own.

Yeah. I, I, I see that completely. Yeah. Um, even just in how much you're saying, how much interpretation goes into it, how much intention and decision making goes into which genes you're testing, all of that sounds like something you want a designated, you know, expert in this field walking you through, so.

Totally. Yeah. So I think there is a big component too, that I don't want to miss is that, you know, when we are thinking of the medical side, more kind of con conventional, traditional care in cancer, um, you know, realistically a lot of people do end up having to, you know, explore things like chemotherapy or radiation for.

'cause there are things that exist now, like PARP inhibitors or, you know, other types of, uh, treatment outside of chemotherapy that may actually work better for your body. And this is actually really helpful for, you know, your, you know, oncologist for example, because. Too often people do, you know, it's kind of trial and error, like on a lot of medi medications.

A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean a hundred percent. It's, it's frustrating. Yeah. And oncologists are trained in really three, maybe four forms of treatment, right? Yeah. Chemo, radiation, surgery, maybe some immunotherapy. That's it. And because of liability and insurance, they kind of almost always have to recommend Yeah.

Which I feel like was disheartening for me to learn For sure. And so I know, I think, you know, if like we could shout it from the rooftops that. You know, not always, but a lot of times genetic testing can help avoid that trial and error situation. Um, you know, even just to help us understand what to potentially expect, you know, with response, it's so, you know, could be so helpful for someone.

Um, and so, you know, like literally life changing. And so that's a huge piece of, you know, a huge piece of it. And then the layers on top of that is really where kind of what we were talking about comes into play. So it's like where, you know, when, when someone is going through treatment or, um, you know, through battling the cancer, where can we really target for that person and optimize their specific pathways, you know, because it's, it's not always the same.

You know, optimization part is, is so helpful. We all know we need to stay hydrated, and yet it's still something that most of us struggle with. And for many of us, it's not because we're not drinking enough water, it's because we're not getting enough electrolytes and without replacing them. And here's the thing.

They're clean, zero sugar, zero calories, zero dyes, and made with full spectrum trace minerals sourced directly from the ocean. I love that they come in tiny travel friendly squeeze bottles so I can stash them. I have a bottle stashed in all my main places. I have one in my office, one in my bag, and one at home.

But you can add these electrolytes to any drink so it works seamlessly into your daily routine, your water, your smoothies, your tea, your coffee. No ripping open powders or dealing with nasty ingredients. And you guys know I love brands that are willing to. Invest in the research to prove the impact of their products.

Click the link below to learn more and receive 20% off your first order. Yeah. To that end, I, something I work with my patients on all the time is, it's really important to have peace in the decisions you're making. Yeah. With your treatment plan. And oftentimes we have a little more time than we think.

But it can be really hard to go to your conventional oncologist and be like, look, I just have a bad feeling about this chemo. It doesn't feel like it's right for me. I they get poo-pooed all the time. I hear this. Versus if you're able to maybe even bring them some hard data of, Hey, I've done this genetic testing here is quantitative, tangible proof that my body is gonna respond really poorly to this.

Let's work up a different plan. Totally. Yeah. I think that's such a good point because I do feel like. Um, you know, in when the diagno, you know, when a diagnosis happens, I feel like patients oftentimes just get thrown into kind of this standardized, you see this person and you see that person and you're referred here and there, and you're kind of just following what anyone tells you to do.

Because, you know, there are options. And so, you know, right. Like you said, you know, and then again, I think that the genetics piece can be so helpful, like you were saying, to, to come with the data, um, when requesting it, you know? Mm-hmm. And I think it's to some extent a reiteration of what we were saying, even just with lifestyle and prevention.

When you understand. How your body metabolizes nutrients, how your, you know, inflammation pathways work, all of that can impact your supplementation, your protocols. But what you talked, I think you mentioned this really briefly at the beginning, it can also help us understand potential root cause contributors to maybe why that cancer was able to thrive and grow in the body.

So when I'm referring to those, those are like. You know, kind of more higher to mid, uh, risk protective genes. But a lot of times people will come with ca you know, I have patients who have had cancer diagnosed in their thirties, which is really, you know, relatively young for cancer diagnosis. And so, but then they'll test negative for those genes.

So it's like, okay, well. You know what, and then we'll look at their other pathways and you know, maybe their oxidative stress, their detox and their inflammation pathway is struggling. You know, and you know, we can look at other genes too, like kind of a, you know, a whole, uh, like it's called polygenic risk scoring, but a whole like other host of genes.

Yeah. Maybe as an example, like you could have two patients come in. Sometimes the way I simple simplify cancer, looking at root cause to cancer. What's all the toxic stuff we need less of? Yeah. And basically that's three categories in my mind. The pollutant, the pollutants, the pathogens, and then in my field, the past experiences that are unresolved.

It's just he had a really severe exposure and so maybe, and then let's say Jeff over here has the same toxic burden, but he also has really maybe mutated detox pathways, maybe like their initial treatment to detox. All of that out will be somewhat similar, although I do still think it would be different, but why I think this is important, bigger picture and long term is.

Joe who doesn't have any mutated detox pathways, once he clears out whatever it was from that exposure, he might be good to go. Of course, we wanna do general wellness and detoxing, but he might not have to be so stringent or just kind of intentional about that going forward. But Jeff, who has these mutated pathways, might go, I need to not only clear out what exists, but I also need to have a really clear plan to keep this on track long term.

So it's like, even, like you said, those differences. And then the layer on, on top of that too is like, we can get so specific and I think exactly like you said, it's, it's so helpful. And then, you know, even things like people will explore, you know, sauna or um, uh, you know, just like heavy exercise for example.

Like these things can be great for some people and I love them personally 'cause I think sauna's so beneficial. And let's say someone has, I had a patient who was doing 45 minutes of sauna a day. 'cause they heard on, you know, I think it was, you know, a well-known podcast that they had to do 45 minutes for the benefit.

And then we were explaining, you know, actually for you, maybe doing like 15 minutes is a lot more beneficial. So yeah, it's, it's so interesting when we're able to, you know, go, go down each, each gene and pathway for the person. Yeah. And to that end, just, there's the longevity piece. But when you are in the thick of a treatment, especially when it's something like cancer, but also I work, you know, I've had patients who are experiencing MS and fibromyalgia and.

All of that's gonna factor in. Totally. Yeah. 100%. Because I've had, I've had patients who, you know, doctors with the best of best intentions are throwing them on these super aggressive protocols and then they get way sicker. Yeah, I know. That's, it's so true. Yeah. I think it's, and that's, I think what's so fascinating too, is.

But like, for example, like the CYP genes is in phase one versus phase two is like, you know, potentially the GST genes with glutathione conjugation, or, you know, methylation. And so it's like you said, it's the protocols, but then also the layer of like, well, maybe the person needs. You know, glutathione support or maybe someone needs methylation support versus, you know, just putting them on all of the different types.

Yeah, to an extent. Of course I think people can benefit, you know, from certain, certain things like everyone. Mm-hmm. But yeah, that's where we can get that, you know, understanding of why that person might be reacting that way. Yeah. Okay. Last couple little questions I do wanna ask 'cause I am so interested in patterns when we can pull them.

Um. You know, but I also don't want to, you know, kind of skip on like the hormone pathways in genetics, which is fascinating, especially for hormonal driven cancers. So we have certain genes that help detoxify estrogen metabolites, and sometimes people have variants in that where estrogen builds, or sometimes we have variants in, you know, the, the gene that converts testosterone to estrogen, you know, and so they have higher testosterone.

Mm-hmm. Because if someone is prone to low grade chronic inflammation, that could create an environment to where maybe their detox pathways aren't functioning as properly, but the root cause there is chronic inflammation versus someone else might have low inflammation, but they're, they're, you know, getting stuck in phase one or phase two or, you know, um, uh, oxidative stress is, you know, kind of its own thing where if you have reactive oxidative species building up, that can create inflammation, but it's not inflammation being the root.

So that's where we can kind of, you know, assess for the, the person. But I would say when I do have cancer patients, usually, you know, if they've experienced, um, cancer, there is some, some flag in at least one cellular pathway. Um, and so it's figuring out, you know, which one, um, can we help optimize for that person?

Yeah. Because I have never seen someone come in who had just one thing. I agree. And I think that's actually encouraging, where it's like, just because you have a mutation doesn't mean you're gonna get cancer. We've never seen cancer patients who didn't have parasites, but that's also not a, just because you have parasites, you're gonna get cancer.

This information in context because, um, like you said, with genetic, if we're just thinking about the genetics leg, and again, there's so many other pieces, like you were saying, even just within the genetics part, it's, it's usually not just one gene and one pathway even because mm-hmm. Maybe someone has, um, a mutation in, you know, that cancer protective gene, but then, you know, they might have inflammation, but then also they might be prone to blood glucose, you know, issues like spikes and drops, which again, we know is hard on the body.

And then also they might have, you know, cholesterol like, so it all, you know, it's like there's so many facets that we definitely, you know, want, wanna like, focus, but also just taking into account like our body works in systems and works together, you know? Mm-hmm. And so things, you know, impact our body in so many different ways.

Exactly. Illness and disease are developing because over usually many, many months and years. Problems have been allowed to persist. So it's not to bring in this like hypervigilance and rigidity. Exactly. There's still that room to live life and be fluid and Yeah. I always say that too, because I think that can be difficult for some people to not hyper fixate on, you know, on things, um, you know, on their health when they're trying to be preventative or if they've had cancer.

It's, it's more about, you know, feeling empowered on taking the personalized steps. And then also, you know, being able to, to have that, you know, awareness and, and, uh. You know, to live life like still joyfully and not hyper fixate like you were saying. I love it. If you have time, can I ask you really quickly to just detail, so what does it look like if someone's really excited to work with you?

What does that process potentially look like from start to finish? Yeah, so, um, we always, like I mentioned, we wanna meet with you for an initial session and I think. You know, this is, it's so helpful for all the reasons I mentioned and so we don't wanna skip this. I know people sometimes are like, can I just do the test?

Mm-hmm. Genetics is ordered a lot of times in the conventional space and no one even knows like what it is. And so a hundred percent, yeah. Yeah. So going over that and then we coordinate the test to be shipped to your house. So, um, people are often surprised to hear that. We've now are able to sequence DNA accurately using saliva or cheek swab sample.

So only in specialized cases do we need a blood sample. Um, and so people can kind of complete that on their own, ship that out. When we get results in, um, we spend time interpreting that and creating a, you know, a personalized protocol. And then we'll review that with you in one or two sessions, depending on how much, you know, we have to review.

I think so often everyone is siloed and then the patient Yeah. You know, has to kind of play this game of telephone and they're trying to explain all the results to their provider. And so we always say like, we would love to work with whoever pri provider's working with you, or multiple providers, your care team so that we're all on the same page and so we can create documentation for them specifically, or, you know, um, I'm, you know, always happy to, to call providers and, and work with them too.

Yeah. That's so amazing. I think that's such a, like a special, special piece of it. 'cause I completely see most, especially in the integrative world with cancer care. Most of them have, I mean anywhere from like probably six plus different doctors or practitioners on their team doing all these different things.

Um, and please feel free to reach out. I'm always happy to chat through things with patients. I love it. Natalie, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.