The JudgeMental Podcast – EP 37 Become the Media

Episode Notes

In this episode of The JudgeMental Podcast, Christine and Hugh dive deep into the troubling lack of transparency in the family court system, focusing on recent emergency orders and judicial decisions that have gone unpublished and unchecked. They discuss the case of Judge Lauren Ogden, highlighting repeated interventions by the Court of Appeals and the alarming consequences for families caught in the system.

Key topics include:

The hidden nature of emergency court orders and the barriers to public access

The role of the media and the legal community in holding judges accountable

Real-life impacts on families, including financial and emotional tolls

The ethical obligations of attorneys and judges to report misconduct

The broader implications for due process and public trust in the judiciary

Christine and Hugh also share their personal reactions to the cases, discuss the importance of transparency, and call for greater accountability within the legal system. They encourage listeners—especially those in the legal field—to take action and demand openness from the courts.

Connect with us:

Visit the app and website at judge-y.com

Follow us on all platforms: @judge-y

For more from Christine: @KentuckyChristine

Thank you for listening to The JudgeMental Podcast. If you have feedback or stories to share, reach out through judge-y.com or on social media. See you next time!

You are listening to

The Judgemental Podcast.

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We're Hugh and Christine, the Minds

Behind Judgy, the revolutionary app

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that empowers you to judge the judges.

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It's pastime for judicial accountability

and transparency within the courts.

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Prepare for sharp insights, candid

critiques, and unshakable honesty from

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two lawyers determined to save the system.

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We need some justice.

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Justice, my fine justice.

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And I wanna ring, be in public.

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I wanna ring, be in public crowd.

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Yeah.

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Hugh: I'm worried that

this kind of stuff is just.

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Is just happening and it's

going unchecked, and that if

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there is any intervention from

the upper courts, it's hidden.

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It's not published.

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They're keeping people from knowing

and it's, and this isn't just, it's

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hard to find, it's intentional.

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These are not published, so the

public doesn't know about these

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grave constitutional violations

that are being committed by

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people that the public votes on.

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Christine: All right.

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Welcome to the Judgemental Podcast.

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We're gonna talk about the backlash

that is the reaction to Judge

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Lauren Ogden's most recent decision.

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Hugh: Yeah, I,

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and since we've looked at

that and gone back through.

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You know, we made some comments

about how many times the court of

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appeals has had to intervene or

has over overturned her this year.

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And we went back through and

found plenty that we missed more.

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Yeah.

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More from just the last couple months

where she was overturned or they had

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to enter, you know, orders removing her

from a case because of apparent bias.

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And it's actually worse than we thought.

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And I know we've talked a lot

about this lately, but I think

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it warrants more discussion.

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Christine: Yeah.

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And it's almost impossible to believe.

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So, one, I wanna know,

where is the media on this?

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Two, where is the local bar?

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And three, what I realized, you

know how we said we've never seen

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an emergency order before, right?

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Hugh: Yeah I mean, I'd heard about

them, but I can't remember the context.

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It was something related to.

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You know, emergency custody type stuff,

but I mean, I, it wasn't in one of my

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cases and I can't even re, you know,

I just heard rumors on it dinging.

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Yeah.

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Christine: That's why.

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Yeah.

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So here's the reality is the court

of Appeals is not publishing these

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emergency orders on their minutes,

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Hugh: so people don't

know that it's going on.

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I That makes no sense.

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So the reason we got

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Christine: it is because

it was given to us.

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But we have no idea how

often this is happening.

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Is it happening in other jurisdictions?

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The court of appeals needs

to be more transparent.

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All of this stuff needs to be much more

accessible to the general public period.

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Hugh: I have a feeling that we're

going to make a concerted effort to

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find out how often this is happening

and report back to everybody.

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Not exactly sure what that's going

to look like, but you also mentioned.

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Discussing media coverage, of

which, of course there's none now.

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There's good reason for that.

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Because it's not, well, as you just

pointed out, unless someone hands it to

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them, there's no way for them to know it.

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Christine: Well, and someone

has handed a lot to them.

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Hugh: Sure.

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No, then that's different.

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But I mean, we, this has probably

happened a lot more than we know.

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It's not published.

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There's no reason for anyone

to know it unless it's.

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No circulated by someone within

the case, and we're gonna find

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out how often this has happened.

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I would bet that if it has happened,

it's happened in the same court.

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But I don't know that

Well, here's the thing

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Christine: though, with the

media, I mean, they had no problem

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reporting on Matt Bevin, and

regardless of how you feel about

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Matt Bevin, that is a partisan issue.

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They covered that case out of

Angela Johnson's courtroom.

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They showed up with

cameras reported on it.

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You had editorials.

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You had an editorial from a guy at

The Courier Journal who makes me just

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wanna jump into oncoming traffic.

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And for reference, I've been hit by a

car, so I understand the ramifications

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of being hit by a car, but he's

like, oh my gosh, can you believe

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that you could cross examinee the

alleged victim if you're pro se?

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It happens every fucking day.

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Media,

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Hugh: yeah.

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Christine: Every.

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Day, get down there, do your job,

stop doing McKay Chauvin's, you

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know, bitch work and puff pieces

on how Durwin Webb and Denise

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Brown do DV court and do your job.

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Hugh: Yeah, I mean there, there

needs to be coverage of this.

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This is some, I mean, the one that

we discussed what, two podcasts ago?

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Where she basically had a powwow with

a grandma and came up with a plan

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and entered an order for her to go

snatch a kid that she has no right

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to have custody to, no standing to

have custody to from another state.

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And sort of secretly

take the kid from school.

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So the parent only finds out when

they go to pick their kid up.

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Like that's, yep.

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That's insane.

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That's newsworthy.

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That's something that

people need to know about.

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It's clear that the courts themselves

don't want people to know about

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it because this isn't anywhere.

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So the court of appeals, you

can't go find this opinion.

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You can't go download it like you

can on the rest of their docket.

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These cases are public record.

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There's no reason why

this order isn't there.

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The order unless one of the parties

publish sorry files it within

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the actual trial court record

that the public can go look at.

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It doesn't exist there either.

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So when we went and looked,

it wasn't in the trial record.

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So this order.

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Is a secret to anyone that's not involved

in the case, and there's absolutely no

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reason for that because listen I get that,

you know, courts might wanna protect.

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Personal identifiers and you

know, that kind of stuff from

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things that are within in cases.

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But this is the most important thing

to be transparent about when the system

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isn't working, where judges make mistakes.

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That's what people need to know

about more than anything else.

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And this not only should be.

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Available for people to look at and read.

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I think the, these kinds of violations

need to be highlighted publicly so

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people know what's really going on.

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I mean, how are you expecting voters

to vote on people who act appropriately

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as judges or who are fit for the job?

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If you don't know about the most

egregious errors, where another

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court has to step in and say.

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You know, unlike normal where we

say, oh, you did something wrong.

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We're throwing it back to you to do

something, we're gonna step in and

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actually change something in this

case and order something immediately

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because you've made such a bad error.

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How are you keeping that from voters?

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Christine: I think it's bigger than this.

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Like I think quite frankly, I have

an ethical obligation to report this

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to the Judicial Conduct Commission.

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I think you do.

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I think anyone with a

law license listening.

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Yep.

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Agree.

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I think every judge at the court

of appeals, because if this

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isn't, you know, we have the quote

unquote rat rule here in Kentucky.

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Which means we have to, you know, report

bad behavior of other members of the bar.

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But when I listen to our podcast,

you know, I'm the one that's

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typically more dramatic theatrical.

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And when listening, you are

just like, this is kidnapping.

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This is crazy.

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This is,

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Hugh: yeah.

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I mean, I'm a parent and if

I'm just trying to put myself

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in this mother's shoes.

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Where you go to school and find out your

kid is gone and you don't get to see your

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child for many months and it's based on

something that is absolutely illegal.

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I mean, it doesn't follow the law.

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I mean, it is not to say that it.

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It amounts to a crime without thinking

more about it, but it's about the

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closest thing that I can come up with.

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It's certainly against the law.

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It's against very simple laws that are the

first thing you learn about in family law.

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I mean, the first thing you

learn in second year law school,

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when you take an elective family

law class like this is this.

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It is just, yeah.

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It's really unbelievable, but it's

really unbelievable that it is hidden

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Christine: and it's unbelievable

how many times this particular judge

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has had court of appeals opinions

that are just essentially, if

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you're a WWE fan body, slamming her

like you have, and it's always on,

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Hugh: but it's on due process.

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This isn't like, oh

man, you made a mistake.

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You forgot to swear people in.

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You gotta go through and do this and swear

them in again, which is embarrassing.

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And it's a technical issue because

things weren't done on the record.

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There's lots of little things that

people can re, can get reversed on,

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but it's always due process, meaningful

opportunity to be heard over and over.

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Every single decision that I've read

about where she's been reversed,

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whether published or not, or emergency

or Ritz or disqualifying, it touches

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on meaningful opportunity to be heard.

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And even the one that we, the, we've

been reviewing where she was removed from

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a case where it showed that, you know,

after denying a domestic violence order,

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she just started basically saying, I'm

gonna grant joint custody unless you do

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something that you know and pointing at

one party without having hearing anything.

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They don't specifically

mention due process, but that's

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exactly what's happening.

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The, they removed her because

it, apparent bias for pre-judging

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a case without having.

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Any evidence in front of her to prejudge

that case, to give that person that she

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is basically preaching to the opportunity

to be heard before She, you know, tells

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them that they're, you know, they have to

go get a drug test and they're at risk.

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Christine: Yeah.

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And on that case, that was actually

the alleged victim that she basically

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threatened, like, you're gonna

have to co-parent, or I'm gonna

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have to consider other options.

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Yeah.

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And the alleged perpetrator,

although the DVO was dismissed,

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I think it was overturned, but

she had been arrested for dv.

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And she had contacted him from

the jail being like, I'm going to.

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unalive you, and she just said,

well, I was drunk at the time.

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Hugh: Well, I think there had been a, an

admission on the criminal aspect of it.

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So yeah, I mean there were just a lot

of things that are suspect, but in it,

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it still boils down to the same thing.

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You have someone who is.

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Who is being treated badly by the court

without an opportunity to be heard.

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And it may just be, okay, you gotta go get

a drug test, or I'm pre-judging this case.

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Nothing, you know, major

has happened in that one.

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Or it could be, well, I'm

just gonna go steal your kid.

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Steal.

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I said, steal not just take, because

this is a child in another jurisdiction

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that you did you issued an an order

changing custody without consideration

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of the custody laws and without any.

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Opportunity to be heard

from the other side.

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To me, that's you've stolen a child.

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So that's the range of

consequences for these violations.

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But just in the past two days since

we've recorded the last couple

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podcasts it's not just been one case

that we've found that we overlooked.

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There's been multiple more just

from the past couple months where

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she's been overturned and due

process mentioned in every one.

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Christine: Yep.

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And she just does whatever she wants.

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She goes with her gut, but, and these for

the listeners, you know, I never filed an

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appeal on a family law case that I had.

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I, if I did anything, I sent them out.

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Right.

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You're talking about people

that had the wherewithal, the

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funds, the quick turnaround time.

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To be able to go seek a remedy.

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From the Court of Appeals.

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I mean, it would be interesting to

just sit in on her, you know, primarily

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like pro se dockets and just see how

she's violating the constitution.

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I am terrified that this

is happening all the time.

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People without attorneys.

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I mean, honestly, most attorneys

that are just regular practitioners

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over there in Family Court wouldn't

have understood exactly how to

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navigate this, wouldn't have fully

understood how to get that emergency

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relief from the Court of Appeals.

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You had somebody who, you know, handles

all kinds of complex litigation.

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And as part of a firm that handles

really big complex cases that knew

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what to do in this case even though it

seems to have taken, you know, I think

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the child was taken out of Nevada in

May, and it was just in the last couple

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days that emergency relief was granted.

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So sometime passed, but the great

majority of people that are in front of

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this judge don't have that opportunity,

wouldn't know what to do, wouldn't

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be able to get this kind of relief.

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I'm worried that this

kind of stuff is just.

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Is just happening and it's

going unchecked, and that if

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there is any intervention from

the upper courts, it's hidden.

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It's not published.

251

They're keeping people from knowing

and it's, and this isn't just, it's

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hard to find, it's intentional.

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These are not published, so the

public doesn't know about these

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grave constitutional violations

that are being committed by

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people that the public votes on.

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Christine: Yes.

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And we're talking about children.

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And then just to even like,

extrapolate it further, like how

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much did this mom have to spend

on attorneys to get her kids back?

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That was taking away from the little

girl and the siblings and the mom

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trying to make a living, you know?

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And I looked up the court net and that.

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The mom had actually filed a domestic

violence order against grandma previously.

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Now it had been dismissed, but it's

like there, the signs are there that

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this is a toxic family situation.

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Yeah.

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And then was that little girl

indoctrinated by grandma,

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and this was all done.

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Strategically with the approval of an

elected official with fucking immunity.

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Hugh: Yeah, immunity.

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And what that means is that parent has

virtually no chance of getting reimbursed

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any money from this grave violation.

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Certainly not from the courts

or from the government.

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It would be I would imagine.

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That this judge isn't going to grant

fees in this case from the grandma

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or her attorney because that would

be the judge admitting to, you know,

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that this whole process was incorrect

and amounted to grounds for fees.

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So, I don't know.

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I don't know that we should

ever expect a judge to do that.

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Christine: Well, I think that the

judge I don't think, I think she

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acted outside the scope when she

strategized to take this child.

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Yeah.

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I actually think that if there's ever

been a case that immunity could be

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breached, this could be one of 'em.

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And when you don't have immunity too, and

you can be sued civilly, that means that

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you could have a judgment against you.

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And this judge has deep pockets

and quite frankly, you know.

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Again, we talk about on the last

podcast when we did this, you

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know, Ogden is not she's always

presented herself as a kind person.

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Clearly that's not the case in

implementation, but there need to

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be massive consequences for this.

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I'm not kidding when I say that it should

be investigated by law enforcement.

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Hugh: Yeah I agree with that.

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And our constitution, actually,

there are sections of the Kentucky

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Constitution that allow for

prosecution of judges for, grossly.

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I, and I don't remember what the actual

terms are, but miscarriage of their job.

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So there, there are limits to

the immunity that exists and.

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Like I said I believe we're gonna find

even more, and, we haven't reported on

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some of the other due process violations

that we found from the last three or

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four months out of this same court

for cases that have been reversed.

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But I have a feeling there's

more emergency type stuff that we

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don't know about because they're,

it's not being published, it's

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being hidden from the public.

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Christine: Yes.

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And so I got tagged in a bunch of

stuff from the media for people

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trying to get like W-L-K-Y-W-D-R-B

wave three to look into this.

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Please do write bad stuff about me.

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I don't care, but look

into the facts of the case.

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Do you know what I'm saying?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And then the second.

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Thing I wanna look talk about like

briefly is just we know that the

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judges were away at judicial conference

and I've said for at least two

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years now, judges are the new cops.

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And literally after this emergency

order's out, everyone's talking about it.

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One of the judge posted like, love

my colleagues, best colleagues ever.

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Something like that.

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And they are going to back each

other no matter what they did.

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Absolutely.

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Hugh: Yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, imagine how many brunches

and and luncheons that you would

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miss out on if you you didn't

back, you know, judge Ogden.

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I mean, it's, I mean, my

god's, it's incredible.

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It's

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Christine: Andre's not

even that expensive.

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You can buy shitty champagne and have your

own Prosecco, I mean, your own mimosas.

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You know, I just think,

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Hugh: It I can't imagine.

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Someone with integrity that knows

that this is going on, not saying

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something about it and not just

being fed up with it at all.

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And I don't know, like I said I, I

haven't done it yet because that podcast

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hasn't released, but I will release this

emergency order to everyone that I can,

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everyone that I have access to, and every

judge, every court that I have access to

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so that they can't say they haven't seen

it because I don't think this stuff is.

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Reaching the judges, just like

it's not reaching the public.

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I think the only judge that would

know about it is the one that had

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the order released against her.

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And I will do the same with every other

one that we find in going down this rabbit

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hole because they need to know about it.

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And if you're going to sit there and

continue to post pictures on social media

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and be besties then you know, full well

what is going on and are supporting it.

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Christine: Yeah, and I, two things.

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I just got a email that the video

is ready for pickup on this case.

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Fantastic.

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Oh, fantastic.

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We'll, actually to see

the brainstorming session.

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Hugh: Oh, that's good.

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And brain in quotes, I imagine.

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Christine: L-O-L-O-L.

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And then also I just wanna

go back to the baby case.

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And we'll post that on our YouTube.

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It's on my YouTube, but we'll post

that full, those two full hearings.

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And I just want, for context, I

finally got those videos like in

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April of the same time that she was.

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Brainstorming with this

grandma to take the kid.

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And I was at the gym and I started

watching it, and I had to get

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off the machine I was on, and

I thought I was gonna be sick.

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And I remember texting like, two of

the attorneys that, you know, I was

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like quote unquote friendly with and

being like, stay away from Ogden.

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Like, there's something wrong with her.

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Like, this is not okay.

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And yeah, I mean, if I

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Hugh: had a case, if I have had

any cases in there, if I were

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practicing right now, I would.

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That I would move mountains to not have

her make any decision related to any

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issues on of significance to my clients.

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I mean, but that's, you know,

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Christine: you know she's on

the Bridgeman case though.

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Hugh: She's on a lot of really

consequential big cases right now.

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Christine: So I mean, the Bridgeman

case is the case of the heir

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of the billionaire that passed

away, I guess earlier this year.

372

But that being said, I mean, we're

talking, it's gonna be a million

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dollars in fees, but I have no

doubt that she has the inability

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to adequately adjudicate this case.

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So they're gonna be in the

appellate process for years.

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I mean, and that's the other harm.

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Let's say that she's obviously

kidnapping children, violating

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due process all over horrific.

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But she is probably setting up every

single case she adjudicates for

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some sort of appealable issue, which

just, it terrorizes these parties

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financially and emotionally for years.

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Hugh: I mean, not for years, for life.

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I mean, if you're, oh, if you're a

9-year-old, you're a 9-year-old kid

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and you get snatched outta school and

taken, you know, out of your school,

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away from your friends, not allowed

to see your parent and taken out of

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state that's not something that I

can't imagine that doesn't stay with

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that child and shape their worldview.

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For the rest of their life.

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Right.

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Christine: Well, I mean there's the, when

you do the dependency, neglect and abuse

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training, which I did a decade ago, they

talk about that wicked old study that said

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children being removed from their parents

exhibit PTSD, similar to Vietnam veterans.

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And I can't quote the study right now.

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But she just again, has a fundamental.

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Understanding of humanity.

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And it doesn't matter if she's

doing this intentionally or

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because she's incompetent.

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It's just it has to stop.

399

So one media do your job, two

other judges stop, like hold

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your colleagues accountable.

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Otherwise it's going, we going to

have backlash for the whole system,

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just like we saw in law enforcement

because you guys don't have the

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gall to handle your own, you know?

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Hugh: Yeah.

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I mean.

406

You always say you continuing

to support your , you know, your

407

colleagues, you're complicit in this.

408

And to a certain extent, I believe that

the other judges are not, it doesn't mean

409

the other judges are doing similar things.

410

This is extreme, but it makes

the entire system look bad.

411

And not only does it make it look bad, it

actually threatens the legitimacy of it.

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Yeah.

413

There are, you know.

414

There's a very specific reason why family

court was created and really specific.

415

Rules and guidelines and guardrails

were set up to protect fundamental

416

rights and the system can only exist

and be legitimate if those are followed.

417

And I think one of the, you know,

at the core of the overall criticism

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of family court from everything

we've seen across this country

419

is violations of due process and.

420

It's cutting corners or sort

of creating a different system.

421

Then the rules and the laws are

actually set up to to establish and

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sort of just assuming that family

court is different than other courts.

423

And this is way outside of what

we normally are criticizing, but I

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think it's a logical extension of it.

425

I think if you get to the point

where, well, we are dealing with

426

sort of soft issues and I have

discretion, such broad discretion.

427

I think judges just get so used

to being able to do those kinds

428

of things without any consequences

that this is what happens.

429

Yep.

430

That you just get to the point

where, well, this person seems to

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you know, this person's not here.

432

I'm kind of upset about it.

433

I, you know, I'll change custody,

you know, no one's asking me to,

434

but that's what I'm gonna do.

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Christine: Right.

436

And it's just like,

you know, I don't know.

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How to articulate it, but in a way

that I don't want to radicalize people,

438

but this is exactly why everyone

online is saying all of the quote

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unquote radical things that they're

saying because of decisions like this

440

and because of no accountability.

441

And it's a dangerous situation

for everyone to be in, period.

442

End of story.

443

Because something bad is gonna happen.

444

I mean, something bad already happened.

445

Hugh: Well, I mean.

446

I don't know.

447

I always look at these things

sort of in isolation in a

448

vacuum, this case, this court.

449

But I can't close my eyes to what's

happening in the country right now.

450

This due process is disappearing.

451

It's disappearing for

entire classes of people.

452

It is not extreme to say that

erosion's going to continue until

453

it affects each and every one of us.

454

And I think that, we've talked about

how the media hasn't picked up on this.

455

I think when you look at all the

other competing stories, this is just

456

because it just gets lost in the noise.

457

Oh, someone came and you know, a

judge, an elected official stole a kid.

458

I mean, people are.

459

You know, it doesn't take it, you

don't have to search more than

460

one or two queries online to find

video of people, kids being stolen

461

yesterday by government officials.

462

So maybe that has something to do with it.

463

Yeah, I mean,

464

Christine: that's just to me, you

know, the whole talking point.

465

I think the media has talking points

that's the only thing that they're going.

466

And I think it is somewhat naive of us

to think that this hasn't been happening

467

for years in family court based on

the stories that we're receiving.

468

It just may not have been happening to

our clients or people with a lot of money.

469

But this is not the first time in this

country that, you know, unfortunately

470

a judge has done something like

that just given the nature of

471

the stories that we're getting.

472

But

473

Hugh: yeah, but I mean, I

don't think, I don't think our.

474

Lack of knowledge of it was because

it wasn't happening to our clients.

475

I think it's because, I mean, one

of the things with big takeaways

476

of this is this was not published

and made public knowledge.

477

Christine: Yeah.

478

Hugh: And how many, how much of

this has happened and how much

479

of it has been completely hidden?

480

And when I say hidden, I don't mean it's

hard to find by not publishing these like

481

you do with all of your other decisions.

482

The Court of Appeals is hiding this.

483

This was hidden.

484

Christine: I called the court of appeals

just to be like, Hey, I hear there's

485

an emergency order, can I get it?

486

And it was that quintessential that you

get, that I got when I was in Los Angeles,

487

in Orange County, it got ma'am ma'am.

488

It's like, don't ma'am me like that.

489

Denise Brown, you work for me.

490

And I understand this is just staff,

but give me every emergency order that's

491

been entered by this court of appeals

and get it to me within 24 hours.

492

And we saw the recent

case out of New York.

493

The Supreme Court.

494

And we just have got to start

FOIAing all this stuff because

495

the judiciary has been able to

operate in the dark for a long time.

496

And if this is the shit that we are

seeing publicly, like what else is apple?

497

Hugh: Yeah.

498

And I mean, for those who don't follow

this stuff, probably most everyone except

499

for legal nerds the Supreme Court in

New York, upheld and granted a four your

500

request for this type of information.

501

And it's sort of landmark that okay,

there, there are opinions and in that

502

case there were memos and parts of a case

files that had not been made public that

503

are generated by the judiciary that the

Supreme Court basically said those are.

504

Fair game for FOIA requests,

and if they're requested,

505

you have to provide them.

506

So they're, you know, that's

a huge step in one state for

507

transparency in the judiciary.

508

We shouldn't have to, like,

for emergency orders rebuking a

509

public publicly elected judge.

510

You shouldn't have to do a four

year request to find out and to

511

have the knowledge you need to vote.

512

On a judge, but it's a big step and I

hope that it proves, you know, it, it

513

sort of establishes a blueprint for

other people, other organizations,

514

other not-for-profits to get this kind

of information and to make it public.

515

Christine: Absolutely Brazil.

516

Hello.

517

We are now in five continents.

518

We are so excited.

519

Three months, judge y.com,

520

Antarctica, Africa, you're next.

521

Y'all judgy on all platforms Kentucky

Christine, for me personally,

522

and we will see you next time.

523

Hugh: See you.

524

Next call.

525

We need some justice, justice, justice.

526

And I wanna ring bells in public.

527

I wanna ring bes in public nor crowd.

528

Yeah, but I To the fo Yeah.

529

I To the fo Yeah.

530

I to the fo fo teaser.