We’re nearing the end of the podcast run and, on the resurrection side of the cross, we talk about God’s ultimate goal for us: living as resurrected beings who are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

We reflect on what our own goals usually are, then look at key passages (1 Corinthians 15:49; 1 John 3:1–3; 2 Corinthians 3:16–18; Ephesians 4:11–13) showing both a future “we will be like him” and a present “we are being transformed” into Christ’s likeness, including moral character, while still retaining our individuality.

We discuss how this formation happens in community through the church’s gifts, how it’s primarily God’s work (with our active yielding), and use the caterpillar-to-butterfly transformation to explain why we can’t fully grasp resurrected life now.

We also briefly speculate that “rewards” may be the culmination of how we yield to God here, then close with the Lord’s Prayer.

00:00 Resurrection Life Focus

00:24 Gods Ultimate Goal

02:10 Conformed Not Dissolved

03:32 Scripture Foundations

05:57 Transformed Starting Now

08:21 Church And Passive Grace

10:33 Caterpillar To Butterfly

13:19 Rewards And Resurrection

15:50 Yielding Reflection Prayer

Welcome back to the podcast.

2

In light of the cross, we are

almost done with how we had

3

envisioned, the run of this podcast.

4

So we've got just a

couple episodes here left.

5

Yeah.

6

And it's good to be on this side of.

7

The resurrection and considering

not just how the cross informs life

8

and how all scripture points to the

cross, but also how the cross and

9

the resurrection together inform

how we live our lives, right?

10

And today we're gonna talk a little bit

more about our ultimate goal, or God's

11

rather, God's ultimate goal for us.

12

And in particular, what that looks

like living as resurrected beings.

13

So we're gonna look at our ultimate goal.

14

God's ultimate goal and then a little

bit of how that it can impact us now.

15

So I think for a way of reflection as we

begin, I would just encourage us to stop

16

for a minute, ask God to show us in fact

what our goal for our life usually is.

17

So if we could be totally honest before

God and said, this is what I'm working

18

for, this is what I want in my life.

19

This is my goal.

20

Show me that.

21

Okay.

22

And then reflect upon your

goal for me in light of that.

23

So today I, I'm really excited because

we get to talk about being remade

24

in the likeness of Jesus Christ.

25

Yeah.

26

And how that only happens

because of the resurrection.

27

Exactly.

28

So we will have a resurrected body.

29

We talked about that last time.

30

Now we don't know

everything about this body.

31

just by the nature of it,

because we haven't experienced

32

the dimensions of that reality.

33

Even if God revealed it to

us, we wouldn't understand.

34

But there are some things that we can

get in our minds that He has revealed

35

to us about our resurrected life, and

probably the most important of those is

36

that God's ultimate goal is that we become

conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

37

Can you unpack that a little bit for us?

38

What, what do you mean and, and

why is that the ultimate goal?

39

Well, what I mean by that

is that we will take on.

40

The beauty and the moral character

of Jesus Christ while still

41

retaining our individual uniqueness.

42

So we will be remade into

the image of Jesus Christ.

43

We'll be like him clean and perfect

before God fully partners with him.

44

And yet we will also have our own

unique personalities, probably

45

our own unique bodies as well.

46

So not, just the drop

in the bucket of the.

47

Eternal ocean here.

48

Exactly.

49

So two things we're not unlike Eastern

religions or many of them teach, the

50

goal is not to be dissolved, like

a drop of water is dissolved into

51

an ocean, nor is it to be robots

who simply do whatever God says.

52

If that's what God would've wanted,

he would not have bothered to

53

create humanity with free will.

54

Even at the.

55

Expense of the cross or

the cost of the cross.

56

Now it will be a full partnership

by which our wills are united with

57

his, and yet they're still our wills.

58

So this, language of conformance to the

image of Christ is really interesting

59

and, and I'm starting to see that there's

a blending together of the wills, but

60

also it's this image of Christ, that.

61

Is like Christ in a way, but still

remains, individuality, so to speak.

62

Right?

63

So, where do you, where do

you see this in scripture?

64

Help us, understand why

this is the goal here.

65

Okay.

66

Let's look at a couple verses and

one, we looked at yesterday's first

67

Corinthians 1549 If you remember from

yesterday or the last episode, Paul

68

writes, and just as we have born the

image of the earthly man Adam, so we

69

shall bear the image of the heavenly man.

70

So there's that idea that we will

bear the image of Jesus Christ.

71

And then I think you pulled up

on your computer one John three.

72

One John three verses one through three.

73

It says, see what great love the

father has lavished on us that

74

we should be called children

of God and that is what we are.

75

Dear friends, now, we are the children

of God and what we will be has not

76

yet been made known, but we know that

when Christ appears we shall be like

77

him, for we shall see him as he is

78

alright, so a couple things Paul

says, we are children of God.

79

Now, technically in the Greek language,

that means we are sons of God.

80

And the reason he says it that way is

not because he wants to exclude females,

81

but rather that in the ancient world, a

son was assumed to be like his father.

82

And they would normally do the same

business that their father was doing.

83

So there was this idea that the

son carried on the likeness of

84

their father and indeed carry

on the deeds of their father.

85

So that's why I think he uses the

the term son instead of children.

86

So already there you have that

likeness, but then he goes on what we

87

will be has not yet been made known.

88

So I think he's thinking of

our resurrection existence.

89

We can't understand it yet,

but we do know one thing.

90

That when he appears we will be like him.

91

So there's that idea again.

92

Yeah.

93

And like carries a lot of, weight there.

94

So how do you interpret

that we shall be like him?

95

Well, one thing, as we talked

about last time, is that we will

96

have a resurrected body like his.

97

So our existence is gonna

be fundamentally different.

98

It's gonna work in a different way.

99

Think of a caterpillar versus a butterfly.

100

There's a continuity between the two.

101

The butterfly comes from the

caterpillar, but there is a huge

102

discontinuity between the way that

they operate within this world.

103

So one of those ideas then is that

we will have that same resurrection

104

body, same kind, but I think there's

also the idea of moral likeness that's

105

carried forth in that idea of suns.

106

But if you look at other

passages, . Can you read second

107

Corinthians three 16 through 18?

108

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

109

It says, and we all who with unveiled

faces contemplate the Lord's glory

110

are being transformed into his image.

111

Jesus's image with ever

increasing glory, which comes

112

from the Lord, who is the spirit?

113

Alright?

114

So we're already being

transformed in that.

115

and he says, with ever increasing.

116

So it's not just a one thing that happens,

our bodies are changed, it applies.

117

There's also this moral

spiritual dimension that is

118

a progressive thing, right?

119

Mm-hmm.

120

And you see the same thing

in Ephesians chapter four.

121

Yeah.

122

Can I jump in here real fast?

123

Yeah, go ahead.

124

two comments about the passages that

we read so far are jumping out to me.

125

I'm always attentive to

the, grammatical tense.

126

Mm-hmm.

127

So you, you talked about we will

be like him in the future tense.

128

Yeah.

129

And then here it's like

we are being transformed.

130

It's kind of a present, continuous

present imper, perfective tense, uh, into

131

his image with ever increasing glory.

132

So there's an end here that we will

be like him, but there's also a way in

133

which this, it begins now and it starts

because of the resurrection of Jesus.

134

Yeah.

135

Okay.

136

Let me read this one.

137

This is in Ephesians chapter

four verses uh, 11 through 13.

138

It says, so Christ himself.

139

He gave the apostles, the prophets, the

evangelists, the pastors and teachers to

140

his people for works of service so that

the body of Christ may be built up until

141

we all reach unity in the faith and in

the knowledge of the Son of God and become

142

mature, attaining to the whole measure.

143

Of the fullness of Christ.

144

So that last phrase is a modification

of what it means to be mature,

145

that we are attaining the full

measure of the fullness of Christ.

146

All that Christ is, is progressively

becoming more and more who we

147

are, I think is the best way

to summarize that a little bit.

148

I, I love it.

149

I love it.

150

So Christ himself gave past tense,

these different roles or gifts,

151

maybe apostles, prophets, evangelist,

pastors and teachers to equip his

152

people, which is present tense, right.

153

Which, uh, but it stretches into the

future until we all reach unity in

154

the faith and in the knowledge of the

Son of God and become mature, right?

155

Which is the fullness of Christ.

156

So let me, let me summarize

this as I'm understanding it.

157

The resurrection of Christ both

demonstrates that we will be conformed

158

to the image of Christ, but also that

there is a way in which we are currently

159

being conformed to the image of Christ.

160

and that happens in community.

161

It does.

162

Yeah.

163

I mean, and among other ways, but it

seems, at least in this passage that, um.

164

Apostles, prophets, evangelists,

pastors and teachers.

165

So there's a, a number of people

involved in the process for how we are

166

conformed into the image of Christ.

167

Yeah.

168

Paul is going to assume that this is gonna

be, the whole reason for the church's

169

existence is to help people become

more like Jesus Christ in this sense.

170

Hmm.

171

And embedded in that idea is that if

we're not part of that church body

172

at some local community, that process

is not really gonna develop very far.

173

Hmm.

174

There's one other thing that I wanna point

out here that's so interesting to me.

175

Speaking of grammar, it's

all in the passive voice.

176

Yeah.

177

We are being conformed, not

we are conforming ourselves.

178

Yeah.

179

But there's a way in which

this is happening to us.

180

But I think also a first Timothy

where Paul instructs him to

181

train himself in godliness.

182

Mm-hmm.

183

And so there's a, a dynamic,

active and passive element here.

184

There is, there's both.

185

But the emphasis falls

on this is God's work.

186

Yeah.

187

We certainly can.

188

Be receptive to that or, or resist it, and

that there are real consequences to that.

189

But the emphasis on this

is all a gift from God.

190

Yeah.

191

you mentioned earlier the, caterpillar

doesn't turn into a butterfly.

192

Oh.

193

I don't know how conscious it is.

194

I know that my birth, I don't

think very I don't think a

195

Caterpillar's very conscious.

196

Yeah.

197

I can't imagine.

198

It's like I'm, I'm

gonna go in this cocoon.

199

I'm gonna, I'm gonna

turn to a butterfly here.

200

My own power, my own strength.

201

It's like there's a process

that kind of happens to us to

202

it just as there's a process of.

203

Birth.

204

I mean, Jesus talks a lot about spiritual

birth and being born again and, maturing.

205

And I probably can't force myself into

physical maturity anymore than I can

206

force myself into spiritual maturity.

207

Right.

208

You know, puberty just happened upon me.

209

Yep.

210

And when it did the way you.

211

Thought about certain things,

especially girls changed, right?

212

Yeah.

213

And I think that's a good clue that

a lot of times we feel like we don't

214

have enough appetite for God or

for heaven, or what we think heaven

215

will be like, but a lot of that's

because we haven't been changed yet.

216

So going back to the

caterpillar and the, but.

217

I think this is a, an destructive example.

218

It's not from the Bible.

219

I don't know if maybe they didn't

have enough knowledge that would

220

work for the average reader.

221

You know, if Paul told them,

look, you know, it's like a

222

caterpillar and butterfly.

223

Maybe they didn't have that background

to get that, but I certainly think it's

224

a beautiful example, a caterpillar.

225

comes into this swirl.

226

It's born out of this egg, and

then it has one goal to eat.

227

It eats solid food.

228

It has band bowls that

digest the solid leaf matter.

229

It doesn't really have eyes.

230

It has eye spots that can kind of

see movement and a little bit of

231

light or, or darkness, and that's it.

232

So it's never seen a butterfly.

233

Even if it had a mind to understand,

I'm gonna be in a butterfly pretty soon.

234

It's never seen one, it's never

experienced that it has no conception

235

of its future state at all.

236

It has no idea that when it goes

into that chrysalis that its body is

237

actually gonna be totally reformed.

238

it's gonna be in that chrysalis

changed at the molecular level,

239

of a sudden it's gonna develop not

only eyes, but compound 360 eyes

240

with this incredible vision, capable

for flight and, and seeing flowers.

241

it's gonna have wings, it's gonna

have a priscus because now it's

242

not getting solid food anymore.

243

it's only gonna take in liquid food.

244

everything about it changes

its entire digestive system.

245

Its nervous system gets totally redone.

246

I was watching an interview with one

scientist and he was talking about his

247

study with, uh, this transformation

and he said they had these cocoons and

248

one of them got cut open or knocked

open, and he said what oozed out was

249

basically this jello like liquid.

250

So the.

251

Caterpillar's body was actually being

liquified in there and then being

252

reformed into a moth or a butterfly.

253

And now that moth or butterfly

doesn't eat, doesn't eat,

254

uh, leaves anymore at all.

255

It flies.

256

And, anyway, it, it just has

a totally different life that

257

it could not have envisioned.

258

I think that maybe something

like what happens to us.

259

even if God revealed what our

resurrection body life would be like,

260

we wouldn't understand it because we

don't have the categories for that.

261

We've never seen it.

262

We don't understand, if God told us

everything, we still wouldn't get it.

263

Yeah.

264

That seems to be why

Paul uses just metaphors.

265

Pretty much.

266

Yeah.

267

That's all we get sometimes.

268

Yeah.

269

Yeah.

270

And so there's a beauty

in the mystery there.

271

There is.

272

And, um, so does this, does, does

this only happen after we die?

273

Well, the physical part

does, but I don't know.

274

There's this, there is this teaching

that's consistent in the New

275

Testament that what we do here.

276

Has some bearing on our resurrection life.

277

Now, sometimes it's called rewards

and people get the, the stupid idea

278

that we get jewels in our crown,

you know, or something like this.

279

No, no, that's not it at all.

280

How does it work then?

281

How do our deeds here and our

desire to grow in godliness

282

affect that future existence?

283

I don't know.

284

I am gonna go beyond

what the scripture says.

285

I can't help but wonder if the rewards

that Jesus talked about, that Paul talks

286

about in, in his epistles that we receive

are not something that's tacked on to

287

what we've done, like this external

award, like a, a crown or a trophy, or

288

a ribbon or riches, but something that's

simply the culmination of what we've done.

289

what is the reward for giving

yourself fully to your athletic

290

team and giving your heart and

your soul to practice with them?

291

Reward is a good team

that's hopefully victorious.

292

What is your reward for seeking to

be kind to your spouse, to, to give

293

of yourself sacrificially to them?

294

Well, if there's a reward, it's that

you are blessed with a better marriage.

295

Those things aren't tacked on.

296

They're simply that

thing in its culmination.

297

Hmm.

298

So maybe the reward here is that each

one of us will have a slightly different.

299

Resurrection existence or function in the

new world based upon the things that we've

300

done here and the choices we've made.

301

I'm going beyond what's written.

302

I'm just speculating, but

since you asked the question,

303

that's the best I can give you.

304

Yeah.

305

Like the way to work on your

marriage is to give more of yourself.

306

To your spouse in a loving

and self-sacrificial way.

307

The way to have the best sports team

is to give yourself in a loving and

308

self-sacrificial way to your sports team.

309

And the way to grow in the spiritual

life is to give more of yourself an

310

increasing measure in an increasingly

yielding way to God and others.

311

Yeah.

312

So it's active, but it's also

passive because that's what opens

313

up the space, I think, for the

spirit to, work in you and on you.

314

That's good.

315

That's good.

316

So I think that lends itself very well

to a time of application and reflection,

317

and that might be as simple as this.

318

Are there ways I feel God calling

me to yield to himself more fully?

319

Are there ways that he's leading me

not to do more, but to yield more

320

to what he wants to do through me?

321

To give of myself to him in trust and

believe in trust and hope that he

322

will reward that in the right way at

the right time now with an external

323

reward, but rather the culmination

of this trust that I'm giving to him.

324

So think about that right now.

325

Is there anything like that, that

God would bring to your mind?

326

Let's conclude our time with this

prayer yielding to the glory and

327

the work and the goodness of God.

328

Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name.

329

Your kingdom come.

330

Your will be done.

331

On Earth as it is in heaven.

332

Give us the day our daily bread,

and forgive us our debts as we

333

also have forgiven our debtors.

334

And lead us not into temptation,

but deliver us from the evil one.

335

Amen.

336

I.