Portugal’s Vicentina Coast. A river crossing. And the kind of mentoring you can only hear when you slow down and walk.

Have you ever had a mentor? Or heard about mentorship programs at work? Now imagine mentorship that happens while walking in nature, day after day, in a place powerful enough to quiet your mind and tell you the truth.

In this episode, Karen Cleveland sits down with Dana and João, the founder of Walking Mentorship, to explore a transformational travel experience on Portugal’s Vicentina Coast, along the Fisherman’s Trail. Dana, a mom, athlete, educator, philanthropist, and cancer research advocate, shares how her “say yes” approach led her into a week of walking, journaling, reflection, and community.

João explains the method behind Walking Mentorship. Slow down, reconnect, gain perspective, and take action. Then they bring it to life through the episode’s signature story. A river crossing that became both epic and harmonizing, a vivid metaphor for moving from vision into real, embodied change.

Guest Bio

Dana Smith

Dana is a mom, athlete, educator, philanthropist, advocate for cancer research, and travel enthusiast. Her current travel motto is simple and brave. Say yes to new experiences that promote self-growth, excitement, and discovery. In 2025, one of her favorite experiences was joining Walking Mentorship on Portugal’s Vicentina Coast, where a powerful river crossing became a defining moment of accomplishment, teamwork, and joy.

João Perre Viana

João is the Founder and pioneer of Walking Mentorship, an approach that combines walking in nature with individual and group mentoring to inspire personal change and strengthen organizations from within. Born in Portugal, João finished high school in the U.S. and completed his MBA in Belgium, then built a senior management career across Central Asia, Eastern Europe, and Africa.

With 15+ years of international mentoring experience, João focuses on change management, business transformation, and personal development. He launched Walking Mentorship in 2015, an innovative project decades in the making. João is also a guest lecturer and an active member of multiple mentoring and governance organizations, including the Transformational Travel Council and the European Mentoring and Coaching Council.

Host Bio

Karen Cleveland is the creator and host of Travel That Touches Your Soul. She is a safari host, spiritual teacher, and animal communicator devoted to helping people reconnect with what matters most through meaningful travel. Her work centers on connection with nature, culture, and inner truth, and the quiet courage it takes to step forward when you do not know exactly how the path will unfold.

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Episode Topics and Timestamps

• What is a “walking mentorship”. And why it changes the mentoring dynamic (00:00)

• Meet Dana and João. Why Dana said yes, and why João designed this work (00:34)

• Walking Mentorship explained. Slow down, reconnect, gain perspective, take action (01:28)

• Portugal’s Fisherman’s Trail. The Vicentina Coast and the rhythm of a week-long walk (03:49)

• The river crossing story begins. Watching tides, preparing to cross, choosing courage (04:44)

• Step by step in the water. Packs overhead, steady footing, senses waking up (08:00)

• How João evaluates safety. Current, timing, and using a drone to scout conditions (10:28)

• The metaphor. Making your ideal future real, then walking into it anyway (12:00)

• Joy on the other side. Playfulness, celebration, and group energy spreading outward (16:41)

• When the walk gets hard. Injury, support, and someone carrying your backpack (26:26)

• Walking Mentorship formats. Immersive walks, corporate programs, and one-to-one journeys (20:55)

• Travel as a force for peace. The Russian and Ukrainian moment João can’t forget (23:42)

• The weather as teacher. Life happens, and the path becomes real (31:53)

• Where to find Walking Mentorship, and what’s next for Dana and Karen (33:09)

Resources Mentioned

• Walking Mentorship

walkingmentorship.com

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Where the Journey Continues

This is a short pause in the journey. A moment to remind you that the conversation does not end when the episode does. If something you heard on the show stirred your curiosity or touched something deeper, the website is where those threads continue to unfold. At SoulfulTravel.travel, you will find upcoming episodes you may not have heard yet, along with past conversations worth returning to. You will also discover soulful journeys and tours being led by trusted colleagues. Experiences rooted in connection, respect for place, and meaningful encounters with people, land, and wildlife. If you are traveling with me to experience wildlife, you may not know that I am also an animal communicator. I teach animal communication classes that invite you into a deeper way of listening and relating with animals. These classes are open to everyone. You do not need to be traveling to participate. The website is also where you will find details about upcoming classes, future journeys, show notes, and special giveaways mentioned on the podcast and video channel. If something in you feels called to explore a little further, this is a gentle place to begin. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. I look forward to connecting with you again, when the moment is right.

Welcome to the show everyone.

2

Have you ever had a mentorship, and

maybe you've heard about mentorships,

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but how about a walking mentorship?

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That's probably a new idea for a

lot of you, and I'm really excited

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to talk to two guests today.

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Dana and Jo and they did well.

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You'll, you'll hear all about it, about

the walking mentorship and who did what,

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welcome to Travel That Touches Your Soul

podcast and video channel where we bring

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you the people and places around the

world that help you connect with something

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greater than yourself and help you.

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Help you fulfill your heart's desires.

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I'm Karen Cleveland.

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I, I'm your host and as I said, today's

guest, Dana is a, mom and athlete and

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educator, a philanthropist and an advocate

for cancer research and travel enthusiast.

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So her recent travel motto is Yes

to new experience, and I believe

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that's how she got onto this

trip of a walking mentorship.

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In Portugal.

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So welcome to the show, Dana and Joao.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Karen.

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Yeah, thank you to be here.

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So glad to have you.

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So Dana, you were a, a guest on

this experience and Joao, you

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had designed the experience.

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Do one of you want to tell a little

bit about what we're going to see and

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what, what, what the trip was all about?

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Sure.

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Go ahead Joao.

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Alright, well, so my name is Jo I'm

the founder of Working Mentorship.

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It's a organization that was created

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been taking people from different

places around the world to different

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places around the world, but especially

we take people to themselves.

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So we combine walking,

mentoring, and nature.

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In the same experience and we create,

let's say a space where people can

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slow down because these days seems

to be something very difficult to do.

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Reconnect, reconnect with themselves

and as a consequence, reconnect

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with the people around around them.

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And then organically we will get to

the third moment of our problems,

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which is about gaining perspective.

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So when we understand where

we are, when we understand.

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Where we are today and where

we would like to be in the near

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future, we gain perspective.

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And the final moment of all our

programs, it's about taking action.

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So whatever insights, whatever ideas,

whatever good emotions and feelings,

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which I'm sure one way or another you

will get them, it's good to pass them into

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something tangible, something actionable,

because all these experience, somehow, and

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that's the rule of life, they will fade.

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It's normal.

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But if you turn them into actions

and you can actually see them in

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your daily day in your life, then

actually the possibilities for you,

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not only to achieve what you want, but

actually to prolong the experience.

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I think it stays probably for a much

longer time and with a bigger impact.

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So in a nutshell, that's what

Walking Mentorship does, and I'm

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very happy to to be here with Dana

because I think we had an incredible

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experience last October in Portugal.

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Yeah.

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That's fantastic.

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Yeah.

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So we're going to have Dana explain

what, what she was going through

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as she went on this mentorship.

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And I love what you said though

about coming back to themselves.

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That's a, that's a very important key for

people and also helping the experience

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last, so much to talk about in that.

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But let's get on.

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So I'm going to share a screen.

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So here we have people looking

over a bluff over the ocean.

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So Dana, what are we?

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Yeah, so I'll back up just a little bit.

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Our, our trip, we took a, a week

long walk in the south of Portugal.

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Can you pronounce it for me?

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Joao Vincent?

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Sure.

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It's vice Andina Coast or, um mm-hmm.

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More precisely where we were

in the Fisherman's Trail.

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Yes, and that's very true because

often we would come upon a bluff

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like this and look down and see

fishing boats entering the water on

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a nice, yeah, little docking spot.

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But this particular bluff we

came upon a beautiful vista.

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I think we were about three

or four days into the trip.

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And I remember waking up that

morning thinking, I want to walk.

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I was so excited to walk.

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I want to walk fast today.

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I want to be in the front.

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I can't wait for what we're doing.

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Didn't quite know there was a

little instruction to wear swimsuit

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under our hiking gear, but I

had done that the day before.

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It was wet, so I wasn't doing

that on this particular day.

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We so I, I was in the front of the

pack when we woke up, started walking

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around eight or nine in the morning.

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And Joao was our leader that morning.

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And his partner, Nunu was in the back of

the group, not pictured in this photo.

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And I remember Joao explaining

that we might cross a river today.

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And he continued to keep the

expectations low by saying we may

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or may not be crossing this river.

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But I knew in my head that I was

crossing the river that was happening.

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So that intro introspective part of the

walk was coming true, I, I knew that

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there was something coming for myself.

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That was going to be

a huge accomplishment.

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Feel that way.

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And that's what this river

crossing became for me.

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Oh.

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So here we are looking

down from the Vista.

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You can see the, the expansive ocean.

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And then to the left is the

river that I'm referencing.

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And in kind of the middle of

the picture, there's a little,

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a cute little fisherman's town.

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We didn't we weren't able to get

to that town unless we went inland

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away and came back, or, oh, okay.

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Traverse down and, and crossed

the river, and then come over

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to the other side of the beach.

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So it appears we're on the beach

side, but we really aren't Okay from

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this, this photo, if that makes sense.

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So that's, that, that is a river.

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It's not like an an inl.

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That's the river.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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And I'm not quite sure about

the name and where it goes.

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But it, it was, , a pretty sizable cross.

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And we can go to the next photo.

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Oh, this, this shows the weather.

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It was a nice, beautiful sunshiny day

with a little bit of cloud coverage.

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So here we are.

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Oh, we sat up on that bluff for about

an hour watching the tides, and looking

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for the right timing and opportunity

to be able to cross the river.

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And this seemed like the right time.

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It was about 1:00 PM.

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And here's our group.

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There were 12 of us, I believe, in

our group heading down to the river

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I want to go back just for a second.

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You said you were ready to walk at

that point you had already walked

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for three or four days, right?

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Yeah.

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my story included a little bit of

adversity because I had stepped on

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something and gotten stung and this is

what want to and I have in common, right?

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In this very moment where we can

get through pain when needed.

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And so I felt, I woke up feeling.

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I also had a sickness on the trip and I

woke up feeling really good that morning.

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So it was, again, it was that

personal introspective where my

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physical finally matched my psyche.

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You were ready to go.

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I was ready.

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so we, we get down to the

river bank, and here you can

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see it in the in the distance.

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It's a little bit of a, a rocky area.

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And I, NNU was going to be our

leader and, and crossing, he's in

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the pictured in the hat helping.

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Jen in the middle of this picture.

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And he started taking off his

shirt and his gear and his shoes.

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And so I immediately did that as well.

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Because I knew, I knew I

was gonna cross the river.

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And when he was ready

to cross, I was ready.

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I watched him enter the water.

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He had his pack on his

head as pictured here.

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And so I put my pack up.

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We carried our bags.

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The whole trip, that's part of you,

you just ca take with you what you

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need and, and leave what you don't.

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So, we were eager to

have our gear up here.

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Yeah.

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I followed about five or

six steps behind Nunu and.

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I just watched to make sure if, if he

slipped down, I wasn't going to keep

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going, but as long as he stayed nice

and level I was going to follow him.

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And so that was my experience and I

think that was everyone's experience.

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It was a little bit of follow the leader.

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As we entered the water, I could

see beach goers on the other side

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of the river playing in the waves.

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I could smell some of the ocean and

the, the restaurant smells in the air.

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It just became like a really

acute feeling like you just.

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Kind of sunk into your body a little bit.

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I could feel it was a little bit of

slimy sandy type of feeling under the

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feet, but still really comfortable,

which is important when you're

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trying to stay steady and lev level.

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While doing the river, crossing the

water had felt cool, but not too cold.

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We had been in the ocean already

a couple times during that trip,

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and it was a little cooler than

the river, so it was really.

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Kind of a warm, nice feeling

to get into this river.

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So you were barefoot.

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Oh, of course.

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Yeah.

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So our shoes, you can see in some

of these, and you'll see in for

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further photos that we have our

hiking boots attached up above us.

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And we just basically had to kind

get down to the nitty gritty and, and

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crossing things that were okay to get wet.

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And for the most part, we

didn't want our gear wet.

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Because, at the end of the day we we

wanted things dry for the next morning.

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So we were thinking ahead, of course.

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So here we are.

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Nunu and I had already reached the other

side, dropped our bags, and then turned

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around to take some of these photos.

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This is the rest of our group crossing.

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So, want to, did you know ahead

of time how deep the river was?

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Well, we actually never

know until we get there.

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Usually there's a couple of things that

the group doesn't need to know, but we do.

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for instance when we stop there was this

high viewpoint we were up on a cliff.

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The good thing about technology is that

on that moment, I, I put up in the air

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our drone, and actually I drove the drone

all the way down to the, to the, to the

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river crossing, and I saw if somebody was

crossing and what was the, the height.

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Of the water at that moment, even

knowing that we will be there just 45

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minutes later, which means that the

water might be either upper or down,

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so you don't really know, but you

have a certain level of certainty.

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That was one.

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The other thing is to check the

current, because if the current is

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too strong it's just too dangerous.

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So we will never do it because

safety is always first.

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Yeah.

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But on the other side, and doing this

already for quite some years, we also

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know that this is, has the potential

to be a very important moment in, in

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this day and in our program, in this

specific route, because it coincides as

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well with the exercise that we are doing

because you see all the places we stay,

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all the experience we are providing,

it has the objective to amplify the

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exercise you are doing on this day.

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And this is a day where actually

people, as far as I remember, they

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really needed to start bringing

their vision of their ideal future

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down into something very real.

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So, and, and believe me, crossing a river,

it's very real because you understand

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that you have this beautiful dream of

crossing to the other side, hopefully

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in one piece and with all your clothes

dried, but then you still need to face

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questions, doubts, maybe some fears at

least until you get half of the way.

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And then you understand that it's nothing.

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So.

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It's, it's a metaphor actually.

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This river crossing is

a very strong metaphor.

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And the, and the moment you

understand that safety is guaranteed.

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Then the whole experience

just takes you to a totally

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different level in your journey.

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And I guess that these are the

small things that in the end of

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the day, they can become quite big.

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And yeah, it was really beautiful.

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I was the last person crossing

actually on this picture.

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I can see myself.

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I'm right at the back putting the drone

back in, inside my backpack because

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I also wanted the drone to be dry.

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And I have to tell you that there are

two beautiful visions of the group.

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Obviously.

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One, it's when you are in front and

you are making sure that everybody

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follow you in a safety way.

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But my favorite position when I'm

walking with the group, actually it's

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in the back, especially after three,

four days walking with the group.

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And you understand and you see how

autonomous, how independent, how.

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Out how much authority in your life.

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You see all these people and then

you, you, you realize that this

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probably the best ever work, job,

service I ever done in my life.

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Because you, you can really see

how useful you can be when you

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see these people going, you know,

so tall into their ideal future.

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Yeah, that's what I like about

that photo where we're descending.

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It's you taking the photo from the

back and you can see the whole group.

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It's really cool.

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Yeah I have to say that when we have shown

this picture on social media, and we had

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the group in the same route in March.

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Oh yeah.

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They were very disappointed

because they could not cross

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the river because in that day.

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No.

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Well, they didn't know actually, so we did

not raise the expectations because Okay.

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We understood that probably

would be not the ideal condition.

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So we didn't even, we didn't

even try, we didn't even get any

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close to the river, by the way.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So it's a little bit

like ignorance is please.

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So if you don't know that

there is there, it's okay.

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Yeah, that's right.

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But then they realize it's seven months

later that there was a possibility.

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Right, . That's a big river too.

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I don't know, Dana, but it never

got, I would say what, yeah, too high

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on me, but I'm on the taller side.

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this would be easily 300, 400

meters crossing, actually.

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Right.

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So I don't know that

in, in miles, but Wow.

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It was quite, quite long.

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here's Brandon.

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He's getting to the other side

and and I think want to might be

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almost, he's still on the other side

getting ready to, for the water.

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you can kind of tell in probably in

the next photo too, that one side.

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Oh, this is my friend Susie.

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so my favorite part with these

photos is seeing the smiles because

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you can feel the accomplishment of

getting, reaching the other side.

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Keeping your gear dry and

crossing the river together.

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And as I mentioned, when I started the

story, I knew I was crossing the river.

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I kept saying that in my head,

like it was just something that

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I knew I needed to do for myself.

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But I also knew if the rest

of the group wasn't crossing.

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With me or if we weren't doing it as

a team, it wasn't going to happen.

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And so to reach the other side and turn

around and see this, the group, yeah.

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Finishing and get, and, and

reaching the beach side is

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basically what we were doing here.

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This is a photo of us, I believe

we're looking at the drone.

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We had all made it to the other side.

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And the other thing that was just

magical that happened is that

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once we, once we reached the other

side, it was a sandy beachy area.

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I noticed that there were families

like picnicking along the river, and

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I think it was because it was a little

calmer spot than the beach to picnic at.

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And some were, just playing in the

sand and having, their fun family time.

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We dropped our bags and immediately

got back in the water as a group.

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And it just felt so nice to be in the

water, not have our bags on our head, and

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it just, we all were playing, we were just

in a playful, celebratory type of feel

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and, moment, I noticed some of the other

families started getting in the water.

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It, it was like they wanted to join along.

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You can see that it's a little more

sandy on this side of the river.

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The background is some of the

families that I'm speaking

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about and some of the terrain.

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how many minutes did it take to cross?

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maybe five, five to

10 minutes I would say.

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Okay.

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We crossed pretty quickly and there

weren't any, it didn't feel like

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there were any spots that weren't

going to be the wrong route, so it

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was pretty comfortable, actually,

pretty quick and comfortable.

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Okay.

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But the prep, the getting in

and the exiting, that's what

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took the most amount of time.

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Okay, because I think we were at

the river about an hour because

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we got back in, and here we are

being playful and proud as a girl.

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So, Joao explained that, , it's kind

of taking your idea into the future.

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So, Dana, when you were preparing to

go, I don't know what kind of journaling

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exercises you had or how he prepared you

or they prepared you for what could happen

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here, did you feel like you were going

through a life affirming experience here?

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For sure.

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Yeah.

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Without going into too much detail,

there's a a journal that we work

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out of that is specific to our

particular walk and our group.

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Okay.

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That walking mentorship prepares for

us and it's very each page is very

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intentional on where we are with

within the walk during that week.

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And again.

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I mean, it sounds, so, it sounds a

little selfish to say, I knew I was

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crossing the river, but for me my home

life is very busy and I'm not always

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in a leadership role and I'm not always

getting to make decisions just for myself.

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so I guess it was, it felt like,

this is something I want to do.

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It's something that I've

prepared myself physically and

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mentally and spiritually for.

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I love water.

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I've always worked around water as

a lifeguard and swim instructor, and

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I just knew, yeah, it was a, it was

a point in the journey where it felt

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like a little bit of a challenge,

but exactly what needed to happen.

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Yeah.

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and this was the last picture,

so everyone's in the water

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there, including a selfie.

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So, yeah, and then there's one more of

the whole group, but this one, Joao was

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in there, and then the oth the last one

we were having like, I don't know, raising

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our muscles or something in the last one.

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Oh, you're, it's very similar to this one.

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You go, yep.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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So that's, our group made it across.

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We're so excited.

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It was fun.

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Just brought us all together.

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I love these pictures.

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I'm gonna stop sharing now, Joao.

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Would you want to share some of

the other locations you go and.

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And if you do individuals or if you

do like families, what kind of trips

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do you tend to lead most OP often?

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Sure.

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basically we have three types of programs.

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The one we are seeing here, this is

what we call an immersive experience

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because these programs take between

seven, eight days usually a full week.

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And we try to do the programs in

places and, and locations that have

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such an incredible meaning that

just amplify the whole experience.

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So.

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As we said here, the fishermen's

trail in Portugal, but we go

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every year to the community.

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Santiago in Spain.

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We cross the Alps on via fina in two

sections between Switzerland and Italy.

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And also the last stretch, to Rome.

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We do programs in in Japan but also in

in, in Spain in different locations.

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Not only the community,

Santiago in Italy and France.

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So we live in a beautiful world,

so it's very easy to do these

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programs in incredible places.

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Yeah.

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Also in US, in California and

we do have corporate programs.

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These are programs that have a little

bit of a, a different format usually.

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Shorter.

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So 1, 2, 3 days.

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Usually companies don't allow people

to be away much longer than that, but

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it's already something very special

because it creates an incredible impact.

378

I'm always surprised by the

impact of corporate programs.

379

Finally we have what we

call a signature program.

380

So these are journeys or experience

where one mentor walks with one person.

381

It's a deep, deep dive during

a full week usually as well.

382

So, from us to Japan passing

by many countries in Europe and

383

hopefully next year we are opening

as well a location in Africa.

384

So little by little

will allow more people.

385

In this environment to go on this self

development journeys, but also having an

386

incredible impact in local communities

because we work with usually very

387

small locations, family run business.

388

They welcome us almost like family.

389

They cook for us.

390

So it's it's, it's, it's many things in

one, let's put it this way, but the most

391

important thing, I think it's always this.

392

Inner journey that we quite often know

that it's something that we need to do.

393

But very rarely we do it.

394

So, traveling as a force of good,

but also as a force of change within

395

and and, and outwards as well.

396

So there's multiple dimensions here.

397

And and maybe a, a final note about how.

398

Important it can be to bring people

together that usually will never

399

be together in the same setting.

400

I think this is something that it's

very valuable and I highlight one

401

picture and unfortunately is not here.

402

So you need to imagine in your mind.

403

But in our year end program just happened

one week ago on the same picture we had

404

two people, men and women, and each one

of them had a different jacket color.

405

So one was blue, the other one was yellow.

406

But the most important thing when I

saw that picture is that one person was

407

Russian and the other one was Ukrainian.

408

Oh, and I just want to say that, this

is a kind of the visions that once in

409

a while we are, you know, able to see.

410

And it it makes total sense to explain to

people that traveling transformation and

411

this inner journeys can be probably the,

the shortest way for a different world.

412

Oh, I so agree with you.

413

Absolutely.

414

And when we travel, we never know who

we're going to run into, who we're

415

going to see, who we're going to be

partnered with on some of these things.

416

Do people have to be in pretty good

shape, like physically fit to do

417

these, and especially the Alps?

418

I'm very curious about that.

419

Well, the good thing is that I think

anyone can join unless you have

420

a, a serious physical condition.

421

We have different programs, different

levels, but at the same time, we

422

try to adapt always the journey

to the people that are with us.

423

So quite often actually, they don't

even know, they don't even need to know

424

what level they're doing because, you

know, for one person their own personal.

425

Everest or Himalaya is five kilometers

and for another person is 30.

426

Yeah.

427

But it doesn't matter.

428

So, this is something that, that,

that's why probably one of the

429

reasons we never ever disclose

distance in our programs because it

430

doesn't, they don't add any value.

431

I mean, the value is in you doing it.

432

I mean, and then if we decide to reroute.

433

And change the program

few times during the week.

434

That's absolutely relevant because it's

your own journey and we are there to make

435

it possible in the best way possible.

436

Not taking away challenges

as Dana could see, right?

437

We don't, we, we didn't move the river.

438

We, we left it there.

439

But you know, this is something that,

I think it's very beautiful because

440

we never know what each person is

bringing inside their own backpack.

441

Right.

442

Metaphorically speaking.

443

So it's very easy to judge others.

444

But I think the biggest challenge

for a, a mentor is actually

445

not to fall in that trap.

446

And realize that, you will only

understand that the moment you need

447

to carry somebody else's backpack.

448

And when you do, then you understand

that maybe it's really heavy one and you,

449

you need to make it a little bit easier.

450

So it's and, you know, can I add to that?

451

Because that just brings me right back

to when I, when I got stung on the beach.

452

I had a I think an allergic

reaction on my foot.

453

I stepped on something on the beach

the second day I believe in, on our

454

walk, and my foot was in bad shape.

455

I felt physically ready for

this walk going into it.

456

And then.

457

As soon as that happened, I

felt like I couldn't walk.

458

And I was scared and I was mostly, I was,

I was scared because I don't know what

459

happened to me and, and I was having a,

a really bad reaction down on the beach,

460

but I also thought that my walk was over.

461

That's also what was entering my brain.

462

And Jo and Nunu came to my rescue and

gave me some medicine and, and and kind

463

of helped change my mindset a little bit.

464

And Jo and I started walking ahead

of the group and someone else took my

465

bag and someone else took my shoes.

466

My foot couldn't fit into a shoe.

467

It had blown up.

468

It was black and blue.

469

Wow.

470

And so I actually had that experience.

471

Someone else was carrying my bag, and I

remember hearing that the tides were going

472

to come up and we needed to keep walking

and we needed to get off the beach.

473

Yes.

474

So I sopped it up and walked with pain.

475

And within an hour the medicine kicked

in a little bit and then I was able

476

to walk a little more comfortably.

477

But I had that experience happen where

I didn't feel like I could walk anymore.

478

We got through it.

479

And then the other, the other little

story I was thinking about is that

480

we had someone in the group whose hip

was bothering her most of the walk.

481

And we had a little gathering about

a week ago with the group, and she

482

mentioned that some of the same tricks

and tools that she was using on the

483

walk, that she was being coached.

484

She's still using and it's helping

with some of her daily activities.

485

So yeah.

486

Everyone can walk, even

those that get injured.

487

Yeah.

488

That's fantastic.

489

And, and it took a team, right?

490

Teamwork helped you team keep going.

491

Yes.

492

Yeah.

493

Yeah.

494

And the other little kind of cool part in

that moment that in that day was once my

495

foot felt comfortable enough to put some

pressure on it, I wanted my bag back.

496

I didn't want others carrying it.

497

It was kind of like my

little safety backpack.

498

And so, yeah.

499

And that was interesting because

it was heavy, not easy to walk

500

with, but it was, it was my bag.

501

I wanted to carry it.

502

Excellent.

503

And Joao, you, so you came from corporate

America and you, you were born in

504

Portugal, went to high school in the us

got your MBA in, Belgium and traveled

505

extensively in corporate America.

506

Right.

507

So you're coming to this,

very, Very well thought out,

508

very well planned and so much.

509

Leadership in IT and helping the others.

510

So it sounds like a fantastic program.

511

And you will be seeing me

on one of these shortly.

512

, Actually, I have to say that I

quite often joke, but actually

513

I'm, it's not a joke at all.

514

When people ask me what, you

know, what do I do in life?

515

What, what how did I come

to, to walking mentorship?

516

I usually think I did a, an internship

for almost 25 years in the corporate

517

world, and then finally after 25 years,

they released me and they let me go.

518

But but you know, the,

I'm very grateful because.

519

The fact that I spent so many years

working with so from one side, yes,

520

demanding and exigent and stressful

environments, but at the same time

521

real 'cause that's a real life.

522

I mean, and when you are able to

connect on the real level with

523

other people, even knowing that now

I spend, you know, my days with a

524

backpack and shorts and t-shirt.

525

I think it brings a lot of trust and a

lot of respect as well, because it's not

526

something artificial or something that,

you know, a book I read or theoretical.

527

This is real and I think that,

probably that's what the world needs.

528

It's more real things where

we don't need to play roles.

529

You just need to be yourself and

actually just by being yourself, I

530

think you give the message to, to

the participants that come on these

531

programs that they can be themselves.

532

So we are not trying to in

indoctrinate them on anything.

533

We are not trying to teach anything.

534

We are not trying to prove anything.

535

We are just there.

536

For the others and to be fair for

ourselves as well, because every

537

time others progress, we progress.

538

Yeah.

539

And and it's it's something that makes a

lot of sense in today's world actually.

540

It's to be there for others without

expecting anything just to be there.

541

And of course then there's

all these beautiful things

542

that happen to us, you know.

543

River crossings great food.

544

Sometimes not so great because we

are not in the kitchen cooking.

545

But anyway, it's, it's, it's,

again, it's, it's, it's real.

546

We are not trying to make people

feel something artificial.

547

It's the real thing.

548

And on top, maybe, I think this

is the sherry on top of the cake,

549

and I rest my case with this.

550

It's the weather.

551

No one controls the weather.

552

I know that these days, the whole, I

mean there's a part of the toilet that

553

wants to control the weather and even

claim they can, you know, control the

554

temperature rising and things like that.

555

I'm always a bit amazed by that because

every time I walk outside and I see nature

556

in this full show, I'm thinking, well,

good luck to us because the weather,

557

it's always there place his own show.

558

Then it's a teacher all the

time because the weather is

559

always teaching you something.

560

And then of course, then you

might decide to learn or not.

561

And this is the thing that I think it

really creates, extraordinary layer

562

on the programs because we can plan

everything, strategize everything.

563

We have, you know, our survival kit,

they exercise the dynamic great partners,

564

and then suddenly boom, the weather

shows up and say, no, no, no, no.

565

Let's change the whole thing.

566

And and when a person understands

that, actually this is probably the

567

best example for their own lives.

568

Which is the weather

is like life, you know?

569

Then life happens and the weather happens

and that you, you know, you dance the

570

music that is playing and it's quite nice.

571

I love all of that.

572

That, that is a, a great note to end on.

573

The cherry on top.

574

I do want to give you both a chance, you

know, for any last words and definitely

575

how people can find you, want to.

576

Yeah, that's, that's it.

577

Walking mentorship.com.

578

I think if you type that,

you will get to these crazy

579

people, beautiful, crazy people.

580

So it's very easy.

581

I agree.

582

Very beautiful people.

583

And I I had maybe three or four

transformational experiences last year.

584

And this one was my favorite.

585

So, I wholeheartedly.

586

Recommend walking, mentorship.

587

I get to take a walk with

my son in July in Spain.

588

And and then I'm also planning

on doing the kimono Coto in

589

October with walking mentorships.

590

I just thought I'd, I'd share that.

591

Yeah.

592

And the, the website does have it

shows all of the walks that are

593

coming in the next year or two.

594

Okay.

595

Yes.

596

Oh, and can we mention Nunu?

597

So, yeah.

598

Joao's partner pictured in a lot of

these photos who also helped save

599

my life after being Ung is Nunu.

600

He's an an awesome mentor.

601

Well, and Karen, we are looking

forward to see you in one of our walks.

602

Don't bring the elephants.

603

You cannot cross the river.

604

Yeah, we're looking towards that.

605

Well, they can certainly show us that.

606

Kidding.

607

I won't bring the elephants.

608

That's true.

609

So I look forward to it too.

610

I'm, I'm so grateful you were

both on this show today together

611

to explain this, to talk about

it, to, to let us experience it.

612

So thank you.

613

Have a good day, both

of you, and thank you.

614

Thank you, Karen.

615

All right.

616

And thank you to everyone

listening and watching.

617

I will connect with you later,

so thanks for being with us.