This podcast episode delves into the often-overlooked notion that the field of cybersecurity can be both enjoyable and engaging, rather than solely characterized by its daunting challenges and threats. We, Joe Carson and Ian Murphy, reflect on our shared experiences within the industry, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a sense of humor and joy amidst the chaos often associated with cybersecurity. Ian recounts his journey from the early days of the internet and his unconventional entry into the cybersecurity realm, highlighting how his background in mechanics and passion for storytelling have shaped his unique approach to security awareness. Our conversation touches on the significance of creativity in effectively communicating complex topics, as well as the necessity of fostering a more approachable and less fear-driven narrative within the cybersecurity space. Ultimately, we aspire to illuminate the path toward a more vibrant and connected community, where laughter and camaraderie thrive alongside security.

In this episode of the Security by Default podcast, host Joseph Carson welcomes Ian Murphy, a cybersecurity expert and stand-up comedian. They discuss Ian's unconventional journey into cybersecurity, his experiences at the MOD and Symantec, and his transition to self-employment and comedy. Ian shares insights on the importance of storytelling in both cybersecurity awareness and comedy, as well as navigating online criticism and audience interactions. The conversation highlights the need for humor in serious industries and the value of real human connections.

Takeaways

• Ian's journey into cybersecurity was unplanned and unconventional.
• The importance of storytelling in both cybersecurity and comedy.
• Self-employment offers freedom but comes with challenges.
• Humor can be a powerful tool in serious industries.
• Navigating online criticism requires thick skin and perspective.
• Comedy is subjective, and not everyone will appreciate it.
• Real human interactions are essential in today's digital age.
• Learning from experiences is crucial for growth in any field.
• Networking and peer relationships are vital for success.
• Life is better when you find joy and laughter in everyday situations.

Sound bites

"I wanted to be a footballer."

"Comedy is subjective."

"You need to grow the fuck up."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
• 00:56 Ian's Origin Story and Journey into Cybersecurity
• 06:29 Experiences at MOD and Symantec
• 10:44 Transitioning to Self-Employment and Freedom
• 14:27 The Switch to Stand-Up Comedy
• 22:05 The Impact of Humor in Cybersecurity Awareness
• 30:06 Audience Feedback and Social Media Interaction
• 31:54 The Power of Audience Engagement
• 34:49 Navigating Controversy in Comedy
• 37:43 The Art of Timing and Response
• 40:47 Comedy as a Reflection of Life
• 43:44 The Evolution of Comedy and Storytelling
• 49:53 Learning and Growth Through Comedy
• 53:50 Connecting with the Audience

Takeaways:

• The podcast emphasizes the importance of maintaining joy and humor in the cybersecurity field despite its often serious nature.
• We explored how humor can be a powerful tool in security awareness, making the subject more engaging for audiences.
• Ian shared his remarkable journey from mechanic to cybersecurity expert, illustrating the value of diverse experiences in shaping one’s career.
• The discussion highlighted the challenges of transitioning from corporate environments to freelance work, emphasizing the freedom and responsibility it entails.
• Both speakers reflected on the necessity of fostering human connections in the tech world, counteracting the isolation often felt in digital spheres.
• The podcast concluded with a call to action for listeners to embrace humor and creativity in their professional lives, enhancing both workplace culture and personal fulfillment.

Hi, everyone.

Welcome back to another episode of the Security By Default podcast.

Host of show here, Joe Carson, bringing you basically, you know, different knowledge, experiences, insights and the chaos world we live in, which is typically doom and gloom.

But I'm hoping this episode today is going to basically lift us all up, entertain us and bring back what used to be a fun industry.

I remember the early years that I actually, sometimes I couldn't stop laughing throughout the day.

It was so entertaining.

But we have to kind of, we have to think about, you know, what makes us happy, what entertains us, what brings that laughter every day.

And one person that does that for me is an awesome guest.

And thank you, Ian.

Welcome back to the podcast.

This is the first time on this podcast.

So, Ian, want to give the audience a background about yourself, what you do and did you choose the industry?

Did it choose you?

And a little bit about your origin story, Joel?

Yeah, of course.

Hi, Joe.

Thanks for having me back, man.

You are a glutton for punishment.

You didn't learn your lesson the first time, so it's your own fault, essentially.

What's my origin story?

So my origin story, right, is I didn't want to be inside, but no one wakes up and goes, you know what I want to do?

I want to be in cyber security.

A.

Because it wasn't even an industry when I left school.

The Internet wasn't about, mobile phones weren't about.

I know there's, there's people going, whoa, how did you survive?

We got along just fine.

Don't you worry about that.

It was great not being in contact with people.

You know, you'd say to your mates, where are you going to be Friday at 7:30?

Or we'll be in the Green man pub.

I'll see you then.

No, no, other nothing.

See you Friday, 7:30.

That's how we rocked it up in the late 80s, early 90s.

Anyway, so I wanted to be a footballer.

That was, that, that, that, that was my dream.

This is the shirt I wore at Wembley with the medal when I played at Wembley.

That's a Sand Jagen Klopp shirt.

Yeah, that, that, that, that was my dream.

Fortunately, I'm at football, so I was, I was okay.

I was better than average.

I was better than 99% of the people, just the 1% who make a career out of it, who make it to the very top.

I wasn't as good as those guys.

There was a guy at Liverpool when I was growing up in my position called Steve McManaman.

Don't know whatever happened to him, he may have had a decent career, I don't really know.

I hope he got on okay.

I hope he did okay.

So that kind of barred my way into my dream of playing for Liverpool.

So that was my dream.

But it was the late 80s, there was computers about.

I had a ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64.

I started to learn basic programming.

My dad thought, actually my dad.

This is the way my dad thinks, right?

Or the way he used to think is, listen, if you could program that computer, maybe you could program it to give us the results of the pools each week.

The pools were our lottery back then.

It would be all the football games.

You'd say what the outcome of that was.

And he thought if I could put enough data in that I could get from that computer the answer that would make us millionaires at the weekend.

There's two problems with that.

The ZX Spectrum wasn't designed for that stuff, nor was Basic.

And I'm shit at programming as well so.

So they were two kind of real limiting factors but.

But it got me interested in that side of things.

My trade is a mechanic believe it or not really.

So it was late 80s, there was a lot of unemployment.

I got an apprenticeship which was very rare then to become a mechanic.

So it was great.

Loved it was four years, it was an enjoyable time.

It, it was.

I think it's what a lot of.

A lot of industries miss nowadays now whether they're the old industrial stuff or the new IT industries, they miss that ability to take a kid from school or university and mold them into a grown up and that's what they, that's the most important thing my apprenticeship gave me.

It gave me the ability to speak to people on a peer relationship who were much older than I was.

It is before that everything was hierarchical.

They were teachers, they were parents.

I was down here and it brought me up to that level.

It brought me up to that level with respect as well.

You know we'll possibly come onto it later on with social media and stuff like that but I'm convinced, I'm convinced that the current level of disagreement on social media and the way people speak to each other on social media is because people have forgotten how much you're here to be punched in the face.

They hate that physical.

That's part of what my apprenticeship gave me.

It gave me the respect you'd speak to people with.

They've earned their respect, they've done their time, they've honed their craft so they've got something to teach you now.

Everybody's A smart ass.

Everybody knows the answer from ChatGPT and everybody thinks that their opinion is a fact.

And most of them, their opinion counts for very little indeed, especially when it's backed with no experience, you know, so, so at the end of my apprenticeship I went to university and I studied electronic engineering because it was something I always wanted to do anyway.

And I had two older cousins who were like older brothers, brothers to me and they kind of got me into that.

They worked at BT and one worked with lasers and stuff like that.

So they got me into that and then it just went from there.

During the mod Ministry of Defense here in the uk Ministry of Defense took me into this security world.

It wasn't called cyber back then.

There was no idea of cyber.

To cyber meant to have online relations, online sexual relations.

In fact it meant kind of web cabin.

It was an early version of OnlyFans.

So it makes me giggle now when people say I'm in cyber because they're just admitting to being self abusers online.

Essentially that's what they're admitting to.

And so I'm old enough to remember those earlier days, right.

You know, and then from there joined Symantec for a few years, five, six years, had a wonderful time, traveled the world, met wonderful people and then went out working on my own.

And for the past 18, 19 years, apart from a spelling Australia for a year, which was great, I've worked for myself as a contractor.

And so I mean from those early times, I mean what's.

When you.

Actually we crossed paths at some point in Symantec as well?

I think I joined a little bit later than you.

Yep.

So before you moved into working for yourself, what was the experience like, you know, working for the MOD and the likes of Symantec?

What did you learn from, from those types of organizations from, from, from the.

Mod, you get to work on wonderful machinery.

Right.

You know I, I worked on, I worked on the naval side of the MOD for a large chunk of that time and being on submarines and stuff like that, I mean I'm not giving anything away from the official Secret act here or anything like that.

It's, it was just awe inspiring and frightening in the same way.

You know, these are machines of safety and defense, but also death for somebody else potentially.

Right.

You know, so it's just a, it's a weird dichotomy but just such, such wonderful, wonderful and also as well, dockyards, kind of like mechanic upbringing and My apprenticeship, dockyard type fit right in in the dockyard.

That humor, that approach, that kind of saying things as they are being able to.

To express ways that you probably wouldn't get away with now today somebody would be upset with you, you know.

So I felt comfortable in that environment.

So it was good.

Symantec, I think so.

So it was kind of a gradual thing from the mod, from big machines into.

Into their cyber worlds which was via communications and things like that and then into.

I did a small consultancy in London at the dot com bubble which I think I hold the record for spending the most time drunk during the dot com bub.

It was about a year all told and then at the end of that I joined Symantec as their firewall expert.

And I think what I got from Symantec, especially in the early days was that family feel, you know, it was a lovely.

We'd just bought a company called Accent which brought in the Enterprise security product range on top of the AV that it was already known for.

And it was just such a lovely camaraderie.

There was like eight or nine of us as SES system system sales engineers, technical bitches for want of a better phrase.

So we would be salesperson's go to, to explain how things worked.

But we just had a ball.

We had a ball for, you know, for the four or five years that we were together.

It was just.

We were kind of inseparable and, and we went around the globe and we'd had sales conferences in Vegas and Dallas.

And I remember those conferences, they were.

Just, they were just the best thing ever.

There's a paid holiday to, you know, I mean just and, and to go and meet people from the company around the globe as well.

A wonderful, wonderful time.

And I think that's, that's where I got from.

Towards the end when we merged with Veritas it became a bit more.

Became a salesy and a bit more cutthroat and a bit more.

You know, we've got to sell at every which obviously everybody does.

But it got to a big serious organization and, and I think from.

I didn't like that.

From my point of view, I didn't like it.

So that's when I decided to go out working on my own.

But I take everything from.

Whether it's.

It's my working life, whether it's my private life, whether it's my sport in life, the good and the bad, you take stuff away from it, you know, and you, and you make it your own.

Absolutely.

I think I, I mean we, our Our journey has been a very similar one as well.

And even, you know, my time at Symantec, I learned a lot, you know, a lot of the enterprise, the processing, the techniques working, latest technologies, you know, and I completely agree at some point in time, you do find that, you know, sometimes the organization shifts away from wanting to make the world a better place to being more about profitability.

And there is that switch.

And sometimes, you know, for.

For me, it has to be the balance I have.

You know, I like to have both.

You know, I might.

My goal is to.

To make the world a safer place online for everyone.

And when that, you know, loses the priority for me, you know, it's.

It's.

It's always kind of the motivation kind of switches as well.

So what was it.

What was it like switching to working for yourself?

What was.

What was that like?

What was the journ journey?

And did.

Did you find that it was more about doing what you enjoyed doing, or was it learning other parts of the trade for running a business?

I think for me, as I get older, I become more outspoken.

I don't become more outspoken.

I've become less tolerant of.

Right.

I just become less tolerant of them because, you know, I'm nearing the end of mine.

I'm not near.

And hopefully I've got a good 40 or so years left.

But, you know, I'm.

I'm in the departure lounge.

I'm heading to departures, is what I'm saying.

That's where I'm going.

I'm not.

I'm not.

It's not arrivals anymore.

I've picked the bags up and I'm heading to departures, essentially, is where I'm going.

So.

So I generally, it's not that I'm.

I'm not rude unless you're a heckler in the crowd than I am, but it's just that if somebody's talking nonsense, I'm more.

I'm more apt to call them out on their nonsense now than probably I ever was.

You know, whether that's in front of people, I don't want to intentionally embarrass people, but normally I try and do it privately and call people to one side and stuff like that.

So that's what working for myself gives me, is that ability that, you know, if people don't like me or like my approach, then they can end the contract.

Right.

It's.

It's really that simple.

Or I can end the contract, which I've done, if I don't like them or their approach, you know, so.

So it's a double edged sword and, and it's just that freedom really.

I, I think the difficulty, you know, if anybody's ever thinking of going contract and it's, it's become a lot here in the UK with IL35 and the different rules and the different taxations and stuff like that.

But if anybody is thinking of going contracting, there's always that big leap of coming away from the security.

But the thing you gain for the lack of that security is the, is the control over your own destiny then, you know, and it leads you into weird places, you know.

Without going, without leaving Symantec, I wouldn't have done the contract and without doing the contract and I wouldn't have done my own business.

Without doing my own business.

I wouldn't have had the idea, idea of the awareness videos.

Without doing the awareness videos, I wouldn't have had the idea of doing stand up comedy is something I've always wanted to do.

Without doing stand up comedy, I wouldn't have been able to perform with some of the greatest acts in this country on the comedy circuit and just, and just fulfill a lifelong dream of doing it and the enjoyment that it gives me, you know, which is better than any football game I've ever played by the way.

And I played in some big football games as well.

So yeah, standup gives me something that is difficult to find elsewhere.

So give the audience, I mean that's what I think one of the great things is that to moving through that journey that you've had.

What was the switch?

I mean you've been speaking in front of audiences and doing the Cyber off videos, the awareness videos, which have been fantastic in entertainment and really it brings the creativity side, I think that's always to be that creative is a skill and a value in itself.

What was the switch to stand up comedy?

How was that?

What was your first time like getting up in front of an audience and doing that?

I mean, nerve wracking.

Everything you would imagine.

Nerve wracking, sweaty, horrible, you know, you don't want to do it, you do want to do it and dry mouth and all that type of stuff.

But I've never been one to shy away from that type of stuff.

So I've always done kind of presenting and keynote speaking.

As my wife would say, you love the sound of your own voice, dickhead.

And she's right, she's right, I do.

But I think I've got something to say as well.

So it's not just.

But, but I was always that frustrated performer.

I think you know, later on in life, having had a couple of pints, try and stop me getting on the karaoke.

You know, it's a.

It's a difficult thing to do, but it's that frustrating performer.

But from a very early age, ever since I first saw Billy Connolly on tv, illegal, just, you know, he turns up on Parkinson, he turns up in this brownie orangey leather suit and he tells the most inappropriate joke for that time ever on live tv.

I was six or seven years of age.

I didn't know what the joke meant.

I can still remember it to this day.

I didn't know what the joke meant, but he was funny.

He just embodied funny.

And from then I thought, wow, how good would that be to be able to capture an audience like that and hold them in in the palm of your hand and, and, and I went to see him years later and he was brilliant and all that type of stuff.

But I followed him his whole career, really, and he's just been one of the heroes of mine.

You know, you look at people who stand out in your life, not just in famous people, but private life and stuff like that, you know, and.

And he's one of those that regularly comes to the forest that you almost have a kind of kindred spirit with.

You know, the stuff he says, you go, oh, yeah, I remember that.

I remember my family being like that.

When he talks about family parties or, you know, so there was just a lot of similarity between us, I thought, at one point.

And I did a comedy course.

I did the comedy course to help me be better at keynote.

Speaking in terms of.

To make it more interesting, a bit more of a performance and less of somebody reading slides, more of the storytelling.

Aspect, which is what comedians are great at, is the great at the transition.

I think that you're talking about Billy Connolly.

He was the perfectionist in transition.

He would lead off on one joke and then forget about.

Exactly.

And then come back to the original joke he was telling.

He was so good at bringing those back.

And ironically enough, that was actually one of my first books I ever read was Billy, right?

And when I was traveling, I went to Australia for a year, traveling around.

And that was the one huge book, the hardback copy book that I took with me.

And I also remember one funny part in it was about when he was working on the oil rigs.

And he said everyone was all excited to, you know, they had a weekend off coming up soon.

They'd been on this oil rig for six weeks, non stop working, and they had all their money and they Wanted to, you know, they were going onshore to this topless pub.

It was a topless bar that they're all going to and they're all excited about this topless bar and everyone gets onto the, you know, on, onto the, the land and they all run to this topless bar and when they get inside they realize it's actually just a bar with no roof.

Those types of things that's like, you know, capturing you because he's leading you on.

Even all I, I took my father to see, see him live as well.

Nice.

And it was such a great night.

We got to see him just beforehand riding up on his tricycle motorcycle when he was actually arriving and it was just, it was.

For me, that's what I love.

I love comedians.

I love a specific type of comedy and I love going to stand up nights.

It's what takes me away from the chaos work that we live in, that doom and gloom.

And it's what just brings you and lightens you up and connects you with just your own personal experiences, but brings them to light in a funny way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's lovely.

It's lovely being on stage and being able to tell stories because I do tell jokes, but I don't tell.

I make the story funny by adding jokes into it and embellishing the story as well, you know, so I'll mix two or three scenarios together to come up with the thing.

That's still the essence of what I'm trying to say.

But it might not have historically happened in that way, but it did happen.

So it's, yeah, it's, it's lovely to be able to do that.

And also as well, from the early days of the videos that I used to do at Cyber, because I worked with Dan Kelso doing the Cyber video.

So if anybody knows Dan on LinkedIn, you know, he's a wonderful marketer.

A lot of the, A lot of, I would say 90% of the creativity of those that time came from them.

And I added the 10% of not just my performance but some of the ad libs and stuff like that.

And I think that's what helped my confidence in terms of being able to go.

I quite enjoy this.

It's uncomfortable, you know, some of it's uncomfortable, the dressing up bits.

I was going to comment who's, who's idea to dress up and come with those, those outfits.

Was it your idea?

I would go in, we'd film like every week, right.

And we'd go in and we'd do another one.

We'd go, we've got this idea.

You look funny.

And I never once said no.

Never once said no.

The only time I got close to saying no is we did the Spice Girls one.

So we did a Spice Girls.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they.

And I'm sure.

I'm sure they got me to dress up in hot pants as Victoria Beckham, right?

As.

As posh by.

Posh by.

They got me to dress up and that.

And I was like, no, I'm not doing that.

Because they were proper.

You could see my religion.

They were proper hot pants, right?

You know, it's.

I'm atheist, by the way, for anybody who's offended.

But by that, go fuck yourselves.

So, yeah, so.

So.

And I was like, no, I'm not doing it.

And they have to talk me into that one.

That was the only time they had to talk me into it.

Everything else I was kind of up for.

Yeah, no problem.

You know, on you go.

I'm gonna have to go back and take a look at some of those.

They were really entertaining.

And I think it always reminds me of, you know, funny, funny thing.

You know, years ago when I worked, I was doing security awareness training, and it was sitting in one of the conference rooms, and we were just doing it.

The very fud.

Traditional way of scurrying employees into doing things.

And that doesn't work.

It's just kind of.

It irritates them.

It gets friction.

It makes them hate security.

They see us as the evil.

I find that, you know, I remember sitting in the conference room, and there was a noisy room next door of a bunch of kids all screaming and having fun, which is what you should be doing.

And we're going, somebody go in and tell those frigging kids, you know, be quiet.

We're trying to do something serious here.

And somebody went in and they said, hey, you know, those kids are here.

Bring your kids to their workday.

So the parents brought the kids in, and they didn't.

Couldn't sit next to their work, so they put them in the conference room, give them a bunch of games and, like, drawing stuff, and they were written, scribbling on the wall.

And we decided, flipping hell, you know, the executives, kids, not too much difference between the two of them.

So.

So we were doing.

Was like, okay, hey, like, we're trying to solve this big problem.

And they were like, oh, sure, tell us about it.

And end up.

In the end, our security awareness training turned into a comic book.

Because the kids said, the best way is to tell a story, something that relates so you're absolutely.

And that's exactly what you did, is you.

You did that same storytelling, entertainment, and something that people will watch and will spend a time watching.

And while they're being entertained, they're learning and taken away.

And it also connects with everybody as well.

Everyone will enjoy doing it.

So I think what you did with those videos and having to go through some of those uncomfortable costumes really has made a lot of businesses much safer over that time.

It's weird, you know, because the amount of traction I got on LinkedIn back then doing it was phenomenal, right?

And I didn't really monetize it, Right.

It was more around me kind of acting out my childhood perform fantasies, you know, really.

And I could have done better at monetizing.

I made a bit of money, but it was kind broke even, maybe.

But what I found was, and why I didn't push more into it is what I found was everybody loved it, right?

It's almost like if you have a poll and an anonymous poll, if I can say that word, anonymous poll of how many people watch porn, you're going to get the right result, right?

If you do it in a room, put your hands up, who wants to watch porn?

Nobody's going to stick the hand up for fear of everybody else looking around going, oh, you pervert.

And that was the problem with my videos were the fact that nobody wanted other people in a corporate setting to see them having fun watching them and learning watching them.

Which is sad really, because it smacks of a cowardice a little bit because.

And it smacks of duplicity because that's not how we live our lives.

We live our lives in many, many different ways.

And I get that the videos aren't for everybody.

And I get some people may take offense, although we'll probably come to this at some point.

It's the weirdest thing to do, to take offense.

Oh, I'm offended, honestly.

What.

Anyway, we'll probably come to that at some point, but it's that duplicity of it that I found.

The amount of people who came to me and said what you just said, thanks very much.

I showed my Nan that video and for the first time ever, she sorted a password out and stuff like that, you know, and it's all those types of things.

And I get those messages quite a bit.

You know, I get like millions and millions of views on the videos.

And then LinkedIn just changed the algorithm at some point, which is fine.

It's up to them, you know, I'm not worried about it, you know, and the algorithm now is full of bullshit.

The algorithm now is full of, hey, here's, here's this or, or somebody, you know, people commenting on the news in terms of, hey, here's Rachel Reeves's budget and here's what I think about it.

And, but just for likes.

And you know, there was a guy who did it the other day about moaning about a mansion tax.

So as my socialist upbringing led me to do, I jumped in and kind of, you know, sarcastically told them why tax was good.

You know, so.

And then, and then you got people jump.

I had one person jumping in.

Imagine this, by the way.

Imagine this on a platform, right?

I had one person jumping in, blaming refugees and ethnicity.

How, how, how stupid and bigoted and racist do you need to be to jump in with that type of shit?

Sorry for swearing.

I can't stop myself.

When people do this, you know, refugees aren't the problem.

The fucking billionaires are the problem.

Go and sort the billionaires out, by the way.

They're the problem.

They're the ones, they're the ones that can afford how to find.

Not to pay tax because the majority of them don't pay tax.

It's not even that, right?

It's not even that.

They've, they're making us fight amongst.

I like red.

No, I like blue.

No, I like red.

No, I like.

Instead of going, I'm gone, we might like purple.

And those red and blue bell ends up there are the ones that we should be focusing our anger on.

And Viva Levorushan, by the way, once, once it happens, we'll be okay, brother.

And they're the ones that's able to shift their businesses around enough in order to avoid taxes in different countries so they can move it and hide it and relabel it to whatever it's.

You know, at the end of the.

Day, I will personally drive at my own cost every single millionaire who wants to leave this country to Dubai, to the airport, I will pick them up in my car and drive them to the airport.

They can go and get.

Well, you heard it here, that's it.

So tell me, tell me about when you switch to doing, as you mentioned, all of the things you've been doing before and you took the training course about doing stand up and making your presentations much more.

How do you find what's from what you're doing in this, you know, security world?

How much of you can finding it crossing over into your comedy world as well?

Are you finding, Are you, are you starting to look at things a lot differently today when it comes to, you know, a lot of kind of day to day you know, secure because security's in the news almost every single day.

Yeah.

Are you finding that's becoming a lot of kind of your focus point or are you moving into other areas?

No, I kind of stay traditionally in, in stand up areas.

If somebody's in the crowd is in cyber or when I do crowd work, if they say I'm inside or whatever, or if somebody's heckler has been a pain in the ass, then I'll turn around and ask them, you know, what's their porn name?

For argument's sake, sort of.

And I'll explain for those who don't know, your porn name is your mother's maiden name and the name of your first pet.

So you know, so I'll ask them what the porn name and I'll tell them that my porn name is Muff Murphy.

Muff Mooney.

Right.

And that normally gets a laugh.

They'll give me their porn name.

Then I'll explain to them that my day job is cyber security and I know how to steal people's identities.

And to do that I only need two bits of information, your pets and your mother's name.

So I'll do stuff like that and bring that in, you know, or I'll do the cyber joke about being, you know, about online sexual relations and stuff like that.

So I'll do bits and pieces like that.

If I'm doing a cyber event, I'll throw a few more cyber jokes in more around the companies, you know, and companies names and stuff like that.

And why don't.

And explain to them about when we were at Symantec we had a product called efis and it was generated in the states and they had no idea of the connotation of what Pfiston meant.

So we have to explain to them in the.

So I normally tell that story that's, that's a bit of a decent funny story to tell, you know.

And then some of the stuff that, that we kind of used to get up to back in the day and we're thankful that there's no, there was no camera phones about and stuff like that.

Absolutely.

And what the two things we were fortunate enough when we were growing up was one, there was no camera phones.

And the second is actually the laws were a little different as well.

Yeah, the laws kind of didn't come in the effect until like 96 and after some things.

But before.

One thing I also kind of want to kind of learn from as well.

You mentioned A lot, you know, from the social side of things.

So what, what feedback do you tend to get from the audiences?

What's, what's, you know, kind of what's from a social side as well, when you post the videos online?

What's, what's the interaction?

What do you find it?

Because one thing is, is I know from speaking is I'm never going to please everyone in the audience.

So, I mean, how do you deal with that?

And what's, what's the kind of way of kind of looking at things?

It's.

It's really difficult, Joe, you know, because people will say, I don't care what other people think.

And that's.

Right.

That really isn't true because I would, I would say I've got quite thick skin or, you know, when somebody says something horrible about you online and my initial liverpuddly and upbringing wants me, Wants me to go full violent mode on them, you know, who do you think you're talking and all that type of stuff.

And, you know, I, I have to realize I'm 54 now and I get out of breath getting out of my chair, so I have to, I have to temper that.

Putting our socks on in the morning is probably.

Absolutely.

I can, I can barely fight sleep, to be quite honest, you know, so, so it does sting a little bit, but I got used to that on LinkedIn, right?

I got used to it on LinkedIn.

It still doesn't stop at stinging, but what it does do is it allows me to go, their opinion means nothing to me.

Even if they're being quite rude and stuff like that, their opinion means nothing.

So I've kind of rationalized it like that.

But I had a post online on Instagram and it went viral.

It's going valid, still going viral.

So there's like 41 million views, right?

There's over 186,000 likes.

There's like 5,000 shares and stuff like that.

And two and a half thousand comments.

Massive.

Where's your YouTube gold?

YouTube?

Yeah, it's.

Honestly, it's massive.

But, but it's the comments.

It's the comments that are the best, right?

Because nearly 200,000 people liking something that you've done is quite an accolade, right?

It's 200,000 people have gone.

If I could get them each to spend a tenner to come and see me and then, you know, be.

I could fuck all of this nonsense off, to be quite honest, I'd be living on a desert island somewhere, you know, so, but, or even, or even Achieve my dream of paying for a start on, on the Liverpool bench.

I'm sure I was going to say.

Even, even by Liverpool.

Yeah, yeah maybe but so, so, so, so that's, that's a thing in and of itself but it's the comments that and, and it's weird because it was a bit of crowds work.

I was doing a, I was doing my hour long comedy routine.

I just finished Edinburgh, I come back home, a mate of mine and Cornwall said would you come down and do your hour?

You can do it.

And you know, well and it was a small cafe, it was sold out.

There was 50 odd in there which is lovely.

It's nice you know when things sell out especially when they're coming to watch you.

But the only place to have the stand or the stage or the microphone is right by the door.

There's nowhere else to do it right.

There's.

I've played there four or five times.

They've tried four or five different places.

You can't do it anywhere else effectively other than where it is.

So that means that you get interrupted with people coming in and going out.

For me that's great.

I'm not only a comedian but I'm a crowd work comedian as well so I'm quite quick with my comebacks and things like that.

I think it's a Liverpool trait, right.

It's not just Liverpool.

Before anybody else jumps on the thing goes not just Liverpool deck.

Yeah I know it's everybody else but we're kind of a little bit known for our quick and sarcastic comebacks, right?

Absolutely.

So this woman comes in and she storms in and she throws a rucksack at her husband and then storms back out again.

Alters the mood, it alters the mood in the, in the room instantly like that.

And when you're doing comedy, yeah you have to control that mood of that room.

You're setting the mood of the room, you're setting the tone but you're controlling it as well.

So when, when a heckler is heckling that's why you've got to be good at putting the heckler down because you're the person in control and if you lose that control it gets rowdy, gets away from you, all of that type of stuff.

So I knew how to control the situation.

So I made a couple of jokes, right I made a couple of jokes about him and her and why that happened and did she tell him what he was supposed to be doing this evening or did he have to mind read it like every other woman?

So I Made a bit of an offhand and it was off the cuff.

It wasn't, you know, it wasn't.

And then, and then I gave them some marital advice.

I said, look, I said, I've been through a divorce.

I said, it's an expensive process.

I said, I've run the numbers.

I said, it's cheaper for either of you to hire a hitman off the dark web than it is to go get divorced, right?

It was just, again, I said, you know, people, people very rarely go through amicable divorces.

News flash, right?

So I've done that.

I've made a silly joke.

So I made two silly jokes, really.

And then, and then it just caught fire.

It caught fire because of the comments.

Because if you want to go viral, I've worked out how you go viral online.

You upset a portion of North American women, that's how you go viral online, right, who don't have a sense of humor.

And they were just coming in and going, just, you know, I have written a set about it, right?

I've written a set about it which I'm including in my new show, so called One Million to None, which is about me losing a million pound live on tv.

So.

Yes, yeah, yeah, you have been on who Wants a Millionaire?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was, it was a program called Red or Black here in the UK and it was 50, 50 chance to win a million quid and it was a big roulette wheel and I chose red and it came up black.

Anyway, I build all that into the story and I've written the, the first bit of that hour long show is this, this kind of.

But some of the, some of the comments are unhinged, by the way.

It would, it would take you all your time to reply to all them.

And in the beginning I started replying to some of them, right?

I started having a bit of fun with some of them.

One of them, them said, misogyny is not a joke.

And I wrote back, I said, you're right, it's not, it's a type of wood, isn't it?

So, you know, that type of thing.

And I can't help myself with that stuff, right?

And I just, I'm like, you coming back to what you said.

I know I'm not for everybody.

I don't want to be for everybody.

I do not want to be vanilla.

I want to be.

I want people to turn like Billy Conley, right?

My dad or my mum used to say, does he have to swear?

Yeah, he fucking does.

He's bringing us into reality.

And they both swore like troopers, by the way.

It's not that they never swore.

They swore all the time.

They just didn't want it on tv.

It's like, what, Turn the TV channel over then, you know, and it comes back to this being this faux anger, this faux offense, this being offended on other people's behalf.

And then I get other women coming in, picking up on the, what they thought was me making a domestic violence gag.

You know, domestic violence isn't funny.

And I'm like, of course isn't funny.

I said, but this isn't domestic violence.

This is a comedy night.

I'm not giving you a TED Talk.

I'm really not.

And if you're taking life advice from me, then you're a nut job.

You know, so it's all, all that type of stuff.

And then, you know, one, and then you get the other.

When does the comedy start?

You know, and I'm, I'm halfway typing, I'm halfway typing through when I've finished with your mum before I then delete it and think, I'm not putting that up there because actually, you know, that's, that's an old joke.

I'm not going to do that.

But it's as old as the joke that they've tried to.

Yeah, I think so.

So I find over the years you've, you've, to that point, one of the things I've learned is that not to react too quickly is to take, take that moment.

And sometimes, you know, sometimes it's me.

It's like, don't respond within 30 seconds, count to 30.

And then by the time my mind is already reasoned about, well, okay, you know, you, you've taken that pause.

Or, or sometimes I'm like, okay, I'm going to not do it immediately.

I'm going to drive home from the office.

And when I get home, my mind's had time.

The same thing as I get a lot of the comments from my speaking sessions and stuff.

And some of them's great and some of them's negative.

And you're just like, oh, okay.

And I take that pause.

If you're not.

The point is that you're taking that time in order to just kind of think about it doesn't really matter because it doesn't change anything to my life.

Well, I think you're right.

It's a great tactic.

I used to use it on LinkedIn.

I'd type something out, walk away, have a cup, and come back, delete, delete, delete.

And, and you get your anger out then in terms of you're having your right to reply without really going and, and sink into their level because it's a zero sum game when you know a lot of them are going to be bots now a lot of them are just going to be.

I normally have a quick.

If somebody's been unduly harsh or unduly nasty to me, right, I'll normally go and have a look at their bio.

More often than not, it's got some kind of dove in their bio and saying Jesus saves.

So he obviously hasn't saved you.

You're horrible little prick, to be quite honest.

You know, so it's that type of stuff or somebody having a go at me with, with quite questionable political views on, on their bio.

And I'm like this P, this person's just out for an argument.

So I'm not going to give them the argument.

You get a lot of trolls out there.

There's lots of trolls that are just looking for reasons in order to gain their own visibility.

And yeah, I agree.

I think if somebody was especially, especially nasty or just kept on, kept on, kept on.

I'm not above finding out where they live and paying them a visit, by the way.

That's just a little warning for them.

Not above that.

Do you find that?

Not now.

You have to put some, you know, one of the things is that sometimes when I'm speaking it's like, you know, I have to say, you know, this is my opinion or these are my thoughts or I had to put some disclaimer.

If I, for example, I do a lot of hacking, gamification, so I always say, you know, don't, don't use this for malicious purposes.

Are you finding you have to put some type of disclaimer at the beginning or not?

I normally end all my comedy shows now.

I normally end with a disclaimer at the end of the comedy show.

So I'll normally turn around and say, listen, I know comedy's subjective.

I know that I may not be for everybody and I shouldn't be for everybody, but you need to know that as a comedian I do not set out to offend anybody.

I do not set out to upset anybody.

So if I have inadvertently offended anybody or upset to anybody this evening, I want to tell you from the bottom of my heart that you need to grow.

The up is essentially how I end.

So they think they're getting an apology and I'm saying, grow a thicker skin, man.

Life, life's better when you're laughing, by the way, you know, you could be highbrow with this and you could say, oh, that's not comedy, or this is comedy, or you need to do that's not funny.

That's fine.

That's your opinion.

That's okay.

When people say that to me, I say to them, I'm still getting paid to do this whether you like it or not, right?

It, I may not be for you and you may not follow me.

That's cool.

That's all right.

There's no problem with that.

And people learn.

That's how you learn is from experiences.

It's the same for me.

I love stand up.

But not all comedians have the same type of comedy that I enjoy.

I like the comedy which is about experiences and about sharing.

You know, the whole Billy Conley, the storytelling aspect of it, the Jimmy Carr style or, you know, those types of, it's, it's a give and take.

Some of it, I like some of it.

You know, it's like, okay, it's a little bit much, but yeah, yeah, but that's, that's the experience is that we, we grow to learn.

Is that what is your choice of preference?

It's not that I, I, I might disagree with a person, but it doesn't mean I have to hate them.

No, no, I know, I know.

And don't get me wrong, I, I don't, I don't go, that'll upset people.

I'll write that joke.

I don't do that.

Everything that I talk about comes from an experience.

So even if it's an uncomfortable subject that people will go, oh, you can't joke about that.

I'm, I'm like, I can, because I've got some form of experience of this.

And that's why I'm joking.

I would never joke about something I had no idea of.

Right.

Something I, you know, if it's almost like, I don't know, being a young new pop star and writing about divorce in your song, you've never been throughout, you know, you haven't got a clue.

Stop, Stop writing about shit you don't know.

Know.

Yeah, I mean, even, even I was in New York early this year in New York, and I remember walking around, I remember it used to be easier to tell when people was listening to music or on the phone because they used to have the cables coming down.

They could see it connected to something.

Now with the like lights of AirPods and you know, in the ear, it's like, and it's covered with a hair or with a hat and they're just walking around Talking in the air, waving their arms.

I'm like, is that person is something else going on in their head?

So, I mean, even the environment we live in, it's changing and evolves quite a lot.

I always love you.

Mentioned again, Billy Conley earlier, just another one came to mind about one of the things that when he was younger, his father and his mother.

His mother said to Father's like, you are not allowed to go out to the public pub until all those kids are in bed.

So it wasn't Billy Connolly's.

Was the neighbors.

Actually, it was.

The neighbors said, you can't go to.

You can't go to the pub until all those kids are in bed.

And all of a sudden, I think Billy Connolly and his sister were out in the street running around playing a river.

All of a sudden, the guy comes and just grabs the kids.

Any random six kids brings them up in this house, puts them in the bed.

They said the next thing, they realize that all of a sudden.

So he.

He just picked any kids, put them in the house rather than his own so that he could go to the pub.

And those were.

That's the childhood.

That's the.

That's the childhood type of experiences that I remember.

Yeah, it really is.

You know, he.

He grew up in tenement blocks.

My dad grew up in tenement blocks.

I still remember the tenement blocks in Liverpool where, you know, I have a very vague young memory of them, but I still remember them, you know, and it was.

What I remember of.

It was a time of.

Of.

Even though it was utter poverty, it was a time of joy.

It was a time of togetherness.

It was a time of community.

I think if we could all get back to that type of stuff would be.

We'd be in a much better place.

Human interactions, really, you know, that's.

That's what I think is so important.

A lot of kids are losing today.

Even.

Even my kids have been taking them to a lot more comedy shows in recent times.

We took them to Ismo, which is the Finnish comedian.

He's hilarious.

He smells so good.

He's very, very.

He's the slow pace of comedy.

Oh, it's like.

Takes his time getting to.

Getting to the punchline, but he takes you on that really, really well.

And then I'm trying to remember there was another one earlier this year, which he was like a little bit more kind of say, cursing in it.

My son was just like, oh, is that okay?

I'm like, if you're telling a joke, why not?

So what's your Favorite like, you know, comedian.

What's, what's if the comedian out there, what's, what's the one that you kind of aspire to be or look at.

Billy without a shadow of a doubt.

Yeah, I always wanted to be able to tell the story.

Like people would tell the story down the pub and hold people captive in your hands telling that story.

And I think if you're telling something from a.

That's backed in truth, you know, like I said earlier on, you'll embellish stuff, you'll make it, you know, you.

And I think also as well the thing that Billy had that other great comedians have is they enact the story for you on stage as well.

So if the, you know, drunken walks and all that type of stuff and, you know, all of that was, was great.

But yeah, if, if I could have a. I'll, I'll, I'll settle for a percent of his talent rather than 100 or 5 or 10.

I'll settle for a percent.

If I could have a percent of his talent, I'll do okay on the comedy scene.

Absolutely.

I mean, it just reminds me even not so long ago my, my parents came to visit and it was like, it was like comedy week for me.

Me.

Just because they, they still, they, their life is, that is just the non stop joking and you know, making fun of everything.

So it's, it's.

Yeah, yeah, life's better, Life's better when you do, you know, I mean, there's times to be serious, of course.

There's, there's times to be solemn, there's times to be sad.

You know, you don't want to be, you don't want to just be happy for happy sake because that's exhausting.

That would be exhausting.

But actually when you find the fun in stuff, I mean, don't do it like a comedian because it becomes like an addiction and an affliction where we can'.

Go out now without my wife saying, right, do not be taking notes tonight.

Do not be, you know, I'm making mental notes in that case, you know, and I'm thinking, oh, that, that for argument's sake, I saw something the other week.

It was great.

It was, it was actually, it was a couple of months ago.

But if I say the other week, it brings it relevant, right?

It was a couple of months ago.

It was in, in the summertime and it was in a service station in the UK and it shows the, the frustration parents have with their children.

And it was a young girl who was screaming that she wanted A nice.

Got herself into that sobbing state, you know, and you're still talking, you can't stop yourself, right?

And.

And the mum got so frustrated and how much frustration do you need to say this to your child, right?

The mum got so frustrated that she turned around and said, if you don't stop that now, if you don't stop that, there'll be no ice cream left in the world for anybody.

You'll ruin it for everybody.

And it's like how frustrated you have to.

But what a wonderful story and thing that's happened to.

Because as a parent, we've been there, right?

We've been in that situation as a parent.

Or if you're not.

If you're about to be a parent or thinking of being a parent, that's going to come up, right?

That thing's going to come up the.

Checkout line and because they didn't get the candy, they just go into a massive tantrum.

Right.

Right on the floor.

Yeah.

It's that type of stuff that I love seeing, that I love.

Yeah.

I was walking along the beach the other day with my dog.

I'm lucky enough to live by the coast in the uk.

Uk.

And I was walking along the beach and.

And there was a couple walking the other way and we nodded hello, how are you?

And then she didn't see a stone on the floor, which she kicked and then she went face first into the sand.

How funny is that?

That's great.

It was just, you know, because.

I know because six months before I did exactly the same thing, but I did one of those elongated falls, you know, where you fall in.

In storm.

And she don't go down straight away phases.

She went boom.

And nose ties is brilliant.

That's for me, that's what comedy is.

That's real life.

And real life TikTok.

That's real life TikTok.

Reality.

So what things do you do to stay up?

What's.

What's.

Do you find entertaining?

Do you stay up to date?

Anything?

Documentaries, resources, books?

How do you stay?

What's.

What's your learning method?

Audiobooks.

I love audiobooks because I spend a lot of time in the car driving to and from gigs beneath evening.

I have a lot of time at my hands.

I love history.

Any recent audiobooks that you've been listening to?

Yeah, loads.

I mean Unruly by David Webb.

Great.

It's about British history from.

From William the Conqueror up to Elizabeth the First, but it does a bit before as well to talk about Anglo Saxons and.

And I love history.

I Love medieval times.

I love all of that.

Sapiens is always a favorite.

I love anthropology.

I love all of you know that.

That type of stuff.

I. I was one called Scouse Republic which is about Liverpool.

Liverpool are known as Scousers.

But it's.

When I got the royal seal of the town, village, hamlet, whatever it was through to modern day and the part it played in despicable events like the slave trade and that type of trade and triangle and all that type of stuff and bought where the Scousers get the humor from and the Beatles and all that type.

So, so it really good from.

From that point of view.

And I love science books as well.

Anything like by Brian Cox, you know it's.

He did a book on equals MC squared.

Why.

Why it is like that.

I did a book on quantum theory.

I mean yeah, I'm a real different bundle of geeks.

History geek, science geek.

You know.

I love comedy autobiographies.

Jimmy Carr's autobiographies are wonderful.

Kathy Baird, I've just finished listening to her autobiography.

Wonderful comic actress and a great actress as well.

Not just come the integrity that woman shows or comes over when you're listening to that audiobook.

If everyone was like Kathy in this country would have no problems whatsoever.

She's just a lovely.

Add those to the show notes.

Yeah, yeah.

Just thought I've got loads of them.

I just.

And some of them I listen to them time and time again.

I've listened to Scouts Republic three or four times.

Unruly three or four times.

You know, I'll get around to.

I've just finished Cathy.

I'll get around to listening to it again.

Cause it's just wonderful.

Yeah, it's those things that bring you up and just, you know, entertain or at least kind of make you think about the world we live in sometimes even from the science side of things.

So for the audience and Christopher Hitchens as well, I've got to call out Christopher Hitchens.

He's a wonderful, wonderful author who goes out and not only a wonderful kind of intelligent person, you know, like an older Stephen Fry.

Unfortunately, Christopher's no longer with us.

You know, the, the arguments he makes for atheism and the debunking of certain myths he does like the Mother Teresa myth and things like that and the, you know, and stuff like that.

It's just a wonderful, wonderful alternative view to things.

You know, he's never rude, he's never.

But he's.

He's Always spot on.

One of my more recent favorites that I just kind of enjoy is, is taskmaster Craig Davis.

Craig Davis is just.

I, I got a gig with Phil Ellis a couple of weeks ago.

Phil Ellis.

Oh yeah, because he was on the last, last season.

Yeah, yeah, he was hilarious.

He was so much fun.

You know what they say, don't meet your heroes and stuff like that in terms of comedy.

And then I've met quite a few of them.

John Bishop, Darryl Breen, you know, Sean Walsh, Low Flowing Joe and they're all Emmanuel Sanubi.

They're all to a person, lovely individuals who will give you the time of day, who will help you in your.

Because I have to keep pinching myself to where I am on the circuit at the moment.

I'm only really three and a bit years in and I'm already, you know, on pro gigs, on pro circuits, on pro nights, in big pro clubs, you know, so, so.

And I know my keynote has helped me there.

I know that being on stage prior has helped me with that type of stuff, you know, but, but also as well being, being a little bit older, being understanding the usefulness of network and how to not come across as being too overburden in networking as well.

That's all that peer relationship and life lessons that I think is sadly missing now.

Wonderful.

So for the, for the audience, what's the best way for them to see you?

Yeah, where's, you know, where can they go find out your, you know, the next nights where, you know, you're doing stand up.

Do you have a regular place?

Do you have a, like a website you can go to and see, you know, upcoming events?

What's the best, best way to contact you?

So I'm just in the, in the midst of kind of generating a website to do that.

But you can keep up with all the events and new gigs and stuff like that on Instagram and TikTok.

They're both the same handle.

It's at Murph Stand up.

So it's at M U R P H and then Stand up at Murph Standup or find me on Facebook in Murphy.

It's my own personal profile but actually I've, I just use it for comedy.

So I don't really post, post any pair.

I haven't posted any personal stuff on there for years to be quite honest.

So I just use that for comedy rather than set up a new comedy profile.

So I've got like nearly eight and a half thousand followers on Insta 5, 000 followers on tick tock nine and a half thousand followers on Facebook.

32, 000 Followers on LinkedIn.

Any of those things.

You can if you'll follow me on all of them.

That's lovely.

Bless you.

Thank you.

And, and I'll be playing a few comedy festivals next year around the UK and then hopefully getting into maybe Europe and maybe further afield after that.

Fantastic.

I'm looking forward, I mean it's been a while since we have caught up so I'm looking forward to getting over, into being, being in the crowd with you.

Magic.

It's, it's going to be such a fun time.

So Ian, many thanks for being on.

It's, it's always, it's enlightening and just inspirational to what you're doing in the industry.

In the industry.

You know, one of my guests on recently said we're, we're sometimes the bringer of bad.

A lot of times is that when you do see us, when we do speak, it's always the brain scary, the chaos world we live in, the threats, the attacks, the bad actors and the criminals out there.

But at the same time, I do remember a lot of times where this was a fun industry and you're kind of making that connection, you're bringing that and making it, you know, that while we had to tell sometimes, you know, harsh news, you make it such a fun way, such an inspirational as well.

I appreciate that.

I think also as well, I think people are exhausted with fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Right?

When you keep offering the sky is falling into people.

It's like the boy who cried wolf.

People are going to switch off, right?

So you give them something different.

You know, it's kind of like my new role at the moment with Cybersearch as head of growth.

We're giving people something different.

We're offering people an outcome of a certification and actually the co joined nature of the platforms.

They need to get that outcome.

So we're secured in businesses that have never been secured before or find it too trepidatious to go into it because they think it's expensive, it's complicated, it's this, it's that.

But it's, it's almost like.

So I remember a story once about maybe if you allow me to finish on this.

I remember a story once around inoculations in sub Saharan Africa, right.

They wanted to get people inoculated.

I think it was against polio or stuff like that.

But the inoculation, the pain of the inoculation or whatever it was was too great.

It put people off.

So they wanted to offer a radio for people to.

It was a wind up radio.

So it didn't need any electricity, no batteries.

It was wound up radio.

Come, come, come and have your inoculation.

We'll give you a radio.

And again, it was, it was, it was too much for them to think about the pain, to want to then go and get the prize at the end.

So they changed, changed it, they changed it really subtly and they offered the radio, they were giving away free radios and there was a queue around the block.

And when they got there, the only, the only stipulation to get this free radio was to have an inoculation.

Well, we're here now, we've made the journey.

We've made the journey.

We might as well get the.

That's exactly what we're doing with cybersecurity.

We're turning it around.

We're turning around and saying, hey, here's the radio.

The outcome, that's the outcome.

You want, you want certification, you want to be stronger, you want to be more secure, you want to be attractive to supply chain, you want to be attractive to other partners, you want to be attractive to customers.

Here's how we do it.

And we do it at very little or no cost to you as a customer because vendors and all that bear the cost.

It's just a wonderful, and it's nice having conversations with people without having to talk about form, features and functions.

It's sometimes it's just making people realize a lot of what you've already been doing is just, you know, sometimes it can be, you know, put together in a different way to help you achieve the outcomes that you.

You're saying.

So absolutely, it's been fantastic having you on.

I always enjoy.

We should catch up a lot more sooner than what it has been recently.

So for the audience, this is the security by default podcast.

Bringing you entertainment fun.

Making the world not just a safer place, but a much more fun place to live in.

So everyone take care, subscribe, share and I'll see you in two weeks time.

Thank you and stay safe.