Reimagining impact: Creating an entrepreneurial education that makes a difference

The desire to make a difference sits at the very heart of the University of Leeds’s new ten-year strategy. Its ambition is to train the next generation of global citizens and leaders – educating the problem solvers, innovators, collaborators and critical thinkers who can tackle the big issues. Richard Tunstall explains how connecting students to real-world experiences opens up their confidence as active problem solvers, and provides communities with a creative resource.

Research that changes lives.

Four simple words, inspiring researchers at the University

of Leeds to reshape the world.

I am Professor Simone Buitendijk, since arriving at the University

in 2020 as Vice-Chancellor.

I've been amazed by the passion, creativity and ingenuity of the

research community to make a difference.

Having the opportunity to exercise choice is really key to palliative care

and that individualised care that supports the person in the last few months of life.

We need to learn from the mistakes that we've made and we

need to learn from the instances where prevention atrocities work.

I think the COVID-19 pandemic actually forced us to become a

little bit more digitally literate.

Although I do think we still have some room to kind of, continue growing.

One of my priorities has been to learn more about the sheer

range of research carried out by early career researchers at Leeds.

They are the new generation of world changers people working tirelessly

with communities and academics around the world on finding solutions to

seemingly intractable problems.

Over the course of this podcast series, I will be in conversation

with those researchers.

Join me as our World Changers described new discoveries and

approaches that will make the world a better and more equitable place

to live.

It's about research that changes lives.

Thank you for listening to this World Changers podcast.

I'm Professor Simone Buitendijk, the Vice Chancellor.

In this edition, our conversation gets to the heart

of the university's central mission to make a difference in the world.

We do that through our research,

but it's also central to our teaching.

We want our students to be positive global citizens

equipped with the skills and knowledge to solve future global problems.

To the innovators, leaders and critical thinkers.

These are people who tend to have what is described

as an entrepreneurial mindset, the ability

to see opportunities and solutions.

Can this be taught?

Joining me to discuss all of this is Dr.

Richard Tunstall, associate professor of Enterprise,

who is based at the Leeds University Business School.

Richard, thank you for joining us.

Thank you, Simone. Great to be here.

So

Richard, we can we talk about problem solvers

and having an entrepreneurial mindset as if we all know what that means.

But do we actually know what that means?

What do you think is.

You're the expert.

Thank you.

No, I think it's the confidence to develop creative solutions.

It's acting early, learning from mistakes

and adjusting quickly when things don't go to plan.

So it's not really just about the narrow ability to make a profit from a venture.

It's more part of a broader set of creative,

entrepreneurial and innovative methods.

So I think ultimately it's about developing a vision of how things might be

and always be in the mode

of trying to work actively with others to bring that about.

So we can relate it, I guess, to what the psychologist Dweck called more broadly

a gross mindset as against what we might call a fixed mindset.

So it's about accepting that you start with who you are,

what you know, and who you know, and you build out from that.

Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense.

And is that a set of skills or attributes that we can actually teach students

or that we can learn as as non-students?

I think that's really interesting.

And I guess one of the questions that that that, first of all, makes me

think about is can we teach skills and attributes at all?

But I think universities have always really been about

developing the skills and attitudes to their students.

But perhaps it's something we've taken

for granted in a learning experience in our universities.

When we start to focus on the specifics, like the entrepreneurial mindset,

we're really bringing this development of skills and attributes to the foreground.

And we're trying to say that, yes, this is something an educator can seek to

develop in their students, but perhaps it isn't written in the title of the course.

Instead, it's something which we're supporting through active

experiential learning and try to make that visible to students

so they can start to navigate and make the most out of those opportunities.

Which, being a member of the University brings.

Yeah.

Do you think we should puts it in course titles?

Because I think it's something that students really want to learn.

I think it's about trying to make it really visible.

So it might be in the course title, it might be how we talk about program,

but it's making it really clear to students

that there's so many opportunities for what they're learning and that they're

an active partner in that.

So I think that's the key thing.

They understand that.

Yeah, that's that's great that you mention the word active partner

and that of course is your Leeds curriculum is all about

working with our students as partners and active engagement.

So, so I was wondering as I was reading your essay as a university

that wants to make a difference in the world, how important is that?

You think that we invent this entrepreneurial thinking, whatever we

we define it as into our entire curriculum

for every student at some point in their their life at the University of Leeds?

Yeah, I think entrepreneurial thinking is going to be really important

in the university of Leeds curriculum and I think it's about saying

if we want to help our students, not just develop their knowledge,

but it's also about trying to create an impact

that knowledge during their time at Leeds in their future careers.

So there's a professor in the US called Professor Saras Sarasvathy

and she calls this the entrepreneurial method,

which is a systematic way to achieve the unpredictable

by leveraging expertize in shaping outcomes.

And what she does and says this is we can juxtaposed

against what we might classically think

is the scientific method which perhaps we most celebrates in our universities,

which is more about aiming to predict and then test.

So instead, we're saying this entrepreneurial approach is to say

what we're going to do is say we don't know necessarily the outcome is,

but by working on it, we can start to shape what that might be.

And I think the key point is that we aren't saying these are two

opposing forces.

Actually, they work together.

We need and we need both of those things.

They are mutually exclusive.

I think combining those approaches is really vital

to the university's mission, which is to make a difference to the world

because it's our students who can be the bearers of that message

and the ones who be visibly delivering it around the world, too.

cccYeah, it seems to me, as I'm listening to you, that some of this

activity to this mindset,

this kind of work that we all recognize as important in the modern world.

And but I think we probably are less likely to realize

that we can actually embed this in the curriculum

so students can start practicing this mindset.

as they're going through university with us

the space should be even safer shouldn't it?

Because you can make mistakes in ways that don't necessarily create issues

as much as they may when you're already in the work place.

Exactly.

I think it's, you know, tried to say if we experience failure,

do we see it as something

which is to be avoided or something which we actually learn from and feel

that we can experiment in that way and develop ourselves through it?

Yeah, I'm a big fan of embracing

failure as exactly what you're saying.

We're just not used to that enough I think.

So yeah, it's.

It's really great what you're talking about.

So can you tell me how you yourself got involved in this area of research?

What's your what's your story?

Well, oddly enough, I have to take you right back to when I was at school.

So when I was there, this isn't actually so much about study,

but it's more some of the things I did.

So I was really into a form of tabletop gaming.

So this is something with, you know, science fiction soldiers.

And you played this strategy game.

That's right.

And it was you know, part of it was

you played this game and it was strategic, but it was also this maker side

It's quite creative.

You built models and I needed someone else to play against.

So I thought I'd try and create a club at school and the teachers were supportive.

But that wasn't the way that things are normally done.

Normally the teachers that set the clubs up and you attended them.

So none of them were particularly keen to try and support this, strangely enough.

So instead they said, You know what, you can have a classroom, just use that

and do what you want. Just don't bother the rest of us.

And that was pretty exciting.

So I what I found eventually was I was actually more interested in

running the club that I was in the games themselves.

I love finding out new ways of trying to drive up membership.

I had to pitch and raise funds from the Parent Association.

I did some collaboration.

I contacted the company who creates the games and said,

Can we bring some of your staff over

to run a tournament and making it more of a regional event,

something, all these were things they had tried before.

So it's hard to get people and build that network together.

And what excites me the most about that, I think, was the opportunity

to mobilize all this and finding out what's creating value for the people.

And through that, creating value for myself, of course, and I think

onwards from that I ended up creating a business skills society university too.

I kind of got the bug,

if you like, and all this was a far cry from what I actually did at university.

So I studied English Literature first, but later on I had the opportunity

to do a master's in entrepreneurship, and I grabbed at that because

suddenly all these things I've been doing, these strange things,

made sense in my mind.

This was a course at the time, that positioned

this as how creative and action orientated methods

could be used to develop innovation,

not just in creating businesses, but in organisations and society.

And that for me was really exciting.

And after that, years later, I did my Ph.D.

that was focusing on how that happens in existing companies,

which is something very difficult to achieve.

But to me that was perhaps

most exciting to say wasn't so difficult and how how come happens at all.

And so that's what's been really interesting to me is that behavior

and how people take those approaches in difficult circumstances quite often.

So for me, it's led to those issues I’m tackling today,

both in research and in practice, because of course

you can't just think about these things, you have to do them.

That's the whole point.

Yeah, that's great.

So so I know you teach entrepreneurial thinking

and learning in the business school, which is where you're at.

And is that different from teaching?

It's outside of the business school because I'm clear here.

You say it doesn't has to be only for business school students.

This is something that comes way beyond.

Yeah, well, I think as I mentioned, I'm English Literature graduate myself

and I think this is something

which all faculties can and actually do deliver.

So it does happen everywhere.

And I think if I think about this, there were examples at the university here

of history classes where students have worked with community groups

to help them develop aspects of local history, putting on events.

And there was a German language class

that was organising a way of teaching

German business language through pitching to external agencies and partners.

So there are kind of specific ways you could do that,

but I think the key for all these subjects

is it's about not necessarily worry so much about the business

aspect of entrepreneurship,

but this idea of acting, doing and building and developing.

And I think it's about developing the set of skills and ways of thinking

which is valuable to create insights into any sorts of problems.

So an example of this is something known as challenge based learning,

where students are given a global or a or a key challenge for society

and then work together using their own disciplinary

training to come up with new and creative solutions.

So it's saying, you know, we students are all benefiting

from the amazing research they're teaching at Leeds.

It's then how do we deploy that, how we directing that

more opportunities we're giving students to use that in new and creative ways.

Yeah.

So it sounds like the key

to successfully implementing that is collaboration, would you say?

That's right. I think so, yes. Because

it's it's about

then students who've got this disciplinary expertize building

on that by working with other students from other faculties too.

So I think, one, the exciting things is where we have collaboration

between different subject groups by students working together.

It can also be faculty working together from across different disciplines,

but it's also about collaboration with local community and through industry

and through leaders, which could include our own research community,

where you've got this powerful network that develops around problems

facing us today and tried to be more entrepreneurial

about ways of thinking and doing to develop some solutions.

If I understand your writings correctly, there are degrees at the University

of Leeds.

Are students actually study enterprise as an option in their degree?

Is that right?

Yes, so one of the ways we're trying to do this at the university

is in my own centre, which is the Centre for Enterprise Entrepreneurship Studies

in the business school.

We've got something quite unique nationwide from that perspective

where students across different faculties are offered

what's known with enterprise version of their home program.

So we have these in biotechnology

but also in theatre and performance music, social policy.

And I'm currently doing some research

with colleagues from Biological Sciences and the Faculty of Arts.

And what we're looking at there is to try work out

all the students who join these programs.

Do they start off with a different way of thinking about their careers

and their studies or what it means to them,

and then how do they shape their ambitions over those three years?

Because I think what we're starting to see

is students who have a different approach to their careers,

whether that be in pursuing further research and further study,

whether it be finding opportunities in innovation or business

development in industry, or even creating their own start ups.

And I think across all of that, we're not really expecting students

to create new businesses necessarily and have to be just entrepreneurial action.

But it's also about trying to create these creative, entrepreneurial

and innovative approaches that will help them to go forward in their careers.

And that,

I guess, is what we mean by entrepreneurial mindsets,

trying to develop that through their experience.

Yeah.

And students work with enterprise ambassadors.

Can you talk about that a little bit more?

Yeah, that's right.

So on on these particular programs and on some of the courses,

our centre delivers, we are very fortunate to have a group

of just under 30 successful entrepreneurs and social entrepreneurs.

And what they do is they commit to give up their time for free,

to share the knowledge with our students and give just lectures and masterclasses.

But they'll also do more than that.

So they'll provide entrepreneurial projects within their own businesses.

They'll give feedback on students ideas and provide mentoring.

So we're very fortunate to have that.

It's existed for about ten years.

But I think through that development, they've actually become an integral part

of our team and what we bring an offer to, to, to the students we work with.

And it's really been about bringing theory to life,

but it's also about giving students the encouragement

that their ideas or enthusiasm and just meaningful to that studies

in the next assignments, they're exams,

but they're also meaningful to the wider world

and that people appreciate that can see that value.

And they probably also see

career opportunities that otherwise they wouldn't see imagine.

Exactly.

So so can you tell me a bit about the SPARK scheme,

which also is really interesting to me?

Yes. So we're fortunate in the University

to have a group called Spark.

And what they do is they provide dedicated support

for any student who has an idea to create a business of their own.

And that's offered at any moment from the day they start their studies

at the University through to seven years after they graduate.

And that's really unique because they offer an open door policy

to any student who who comes to them and says, I've got this idea.

I'm not too sure how I develop this further.

And we also have support from our fantastic alumni in the wider business

community who support Spark and adds to that advice through both advice,

but also through forms of financial support, too.

And I think the important thing about Spark is that they share that philosophy.

I just mentioned the Enterprise being more than just business,

and they actively encourage social entrepreneurship.

And the idea that students are working, what they're working on now

is just the first step towards their future so that it's really

their skills and attitudes which we're supporting

along their journey.

Yeah, what a wonderful program and really something to be proud of.

And I'm assuming there are also opportunities to work

with community organisations in their own area?

Yes, so I guess on that aspect of the social entrepreneurship side,

I think one of the things that's really exciting is how hard the students

themselves work on local initiatives and what they contribute.

And we've got some fantastic students societies who support that.

So one of them is the Leeds Climate Entrepreneur Club who supports students

developing innovative solutions to the climate challenges we face.

And then there's a Leeds branch of a global

initiative called Enactus, and what they do is support

students, develop impactful projects to support the local community.

And that of course we have Leeds entrepreneurs who are perhaps developing

the founders of our future and those new startups of the future.

But I think across all these things across there with enterprise programs,

the ambassadors spark these really exciting initiatives

is that they're not just isolated by themselves, but everyone works together

to try and ensure that students have access to opportunity.

And it doesn't matter

what the student's starting point is, but those are available to them.

And it's about how the student then wants to approach that

depending on their stage of the journey and what makes the most sense for them.

There's always a way to begin on those first steps.

Brilliant. Really brilliant.

So. So I'm understanding from you that all of us with the right

training can actually become entrepreneurial thinkers.

Is that right?

I absolutely think so, yes.

I think we're all in many ways a product of our experience.

Thinking back to what we've been discussing traditionally,

a lot of our education systems prioritise formal knowledge.

And perhaps sometimes we think that prioritising that over

creative, entrepreneurial, innovative thinking.

But I think if we can provide the University the opportunities

to access this opportunity, a ways to inspire,

motivate students, and if we have the access to ourselves

and the right support around us, then we can do incredible things.

And I think it all comes down to this combination of connecting knowledge

with creativity, with action and together

I think that's a really powerful force to make a difference in the world.

Yeah, with the emphasis on in the world because it's very clear from everything

you're saying, this doesn't stop in Yorkshire or at the University of Leeds.

This really could could be globally so influential.

Which brings me to a question I wanted to ask you.

I know you're connected also with other universities outside of the UK.

You're doing some research now.

Also think in the US, could you talk a little bit about what

other universities are doing to promote entrepreneurial thinking in then

maybe a little bit about your own work

as part just in the world, changer your research that you're doing?

There are

the universities who are working on this and there are some amazing programs exist.

So I guess the kind of things

you might think of would be things like Stanford University's D School.

So their mission is to bring design thinking to everyone.

Yeah

as a way to solve problems, not just the designers.

there's also the African Leadership Academy in South Africa,

and one of their approaches has been to revolutionise their curriculum

by putting at the foreground these interdisciplinary global challenges

and then allowing students to choose the classes across disciplines

which they feel they need to work on in order to get towards that solution.

So really going straight at this idea of how can we leverage our knowledge

and leverage ways of thinking to try and make a difference?

And then, as you mentioned, I'm in the autumn of this year,

I'm going to Babson college in the USA and they are particularly renowned

for their work in entrepreneurship, where every single program and every class

they deliver links to entrepreneurship in some way and they have this mission

of entrepreneurial thought and action, being about everything they do.

After I was invited to write the essay, which was such a fantastic opportunity,

that's really helps to develop some conversations with colleagues in the US.

And so speaking to some professors at Babson, their invitation

to come visit in the autumn and try and explore some of this further.

So while we understand what this concept is,

how do we get to that and what what's that change look like?

What's that journey like? And so we're going to look at that.

We're also going to look around

entrepreneurial practices, how do we do these things?

And then the social roles I mentioned that, you know, it's about collaboration.

So how is that interaction between different partners and networks?

How does that really lead to this kind of change

and how does that come together as a whole?

And then, of course, beyond the research, we're also thinking about how to try

and make this relevant to our students and to learners experiences

and hopefully develop some of the tools and methods to best make that happen.

That's wonderful.

I really can't wait to learn which year you're coming back,

Chris, after your trip to the US and I'm very proud.

You're fine, just the University of Leeds and it's clearly a totally fits in

with our strategy of us

changing the world through research and education.

So thank you for this really interesting, wonderful conversation

Richard, and I wish you all the best for the rest of your career.

And I hope you can stay with us for for a long time.

We can have many conversations in the near future, but this was great.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Simone

I'm looking forward to it.

Thank you for listening to this podcast from the University of Leeds, to find out

more about the work of our early career researchers and to read essays written by

World Changer researchers, please go to the World Changers page on the University

website, details can be found in the information that accompanies this podcast.