Shownotes
In this episode of the Future Proof HR Podcast, Thomas Kunjappu sits down with Gene Hallenbeck, Vice President of Human Resources at Dennis & Co Auto Group and longtime HR educator, to unpack how HR evolved from paperwork to partnership.
With over four decades of experience from rotary phones and filing cabinets to AI-driven analytics, Gene has seen HR transform from an administrative function into a strategic, trusted advisor to the business. He shares what it takes to modernize HR structures, earn executive trust, and lead with a service mindset that treats employees like customers.
Gene also discusses his hands-on approach to building lean, high-impact teams, his “100-day model” for transformation, and how HR can move from compliance to influence while staying aligned with the organization’s real goals.
Topics Discussed:
- The evolution of HR from manual processes to a strategic partnership
- How HR earned its seat at the table through trust and credibility
- Building lean HR teams that stay aligned with business outcomes
- The 100-day framework for rebuilding HR functions
- Balancing technology, AI, and the human experience
- The mindset shift from administration to a trusted advisor
- Why every HR leader must “earn the seat” every day
Additional Resources:
Transcripts
When I began, everything was, for lack of a better word, a manual process.
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Down to the point
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of my first job, there was a
rotary phone, a pencil, and a pad.
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And there you go, there's your office.
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But the bigger problem was that I saw
right from the get go, and this is
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going back into the mid to late 80s.
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There was nothing written down.
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Everything was through this
historical knowledge of the
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incumbents that had survived for 20,
30 years because people didn't leave.
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They stayed forever.
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They keep telling us that it's all over.
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For HR, the age of AI is upon
us, and that means HR should
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be prepared to be decimated.
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We reject that message.
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The future of HR won't be handed to us.
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Instead, it'll be defined by those
ready to experiment, adopt, and adapt.
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Future Proof HR invites these builders to
share what they're trying, how it's going,
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what they've learned, and what's next.
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We are committed to arming HR
with the AI insights to not
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just survive, but to thrive.
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Thomas: Hello and welcome to
the Future Proof HR Podcast.
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Where we explore how forward-thinking
HR leaders are preparing for disruption
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and redefining what it means to
lead people in a changing world.
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I'm your host, Thomas
Kunjappu, CEO of Cleary.
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Now today, we have with us Gene
Hallenbeck, the Vice President of Human
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Resources at Dennis & Co Auto Group,
overseeing all HR functions there.
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Now, these include, but are not limited
to talent management, employee relations,
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payroll benefits, administrations,
uniquely union contract relationships.
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And Gene brings extensive HR
expertise and a hands-on approach
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to offering comprehensive support
in all HR areas, including M&A,
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due diligence, and labor relations.
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I'd be very intrigued to jump into how
some of those things are changing with
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the world that we're moving into with AI.
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Gene is also an adjunct professor of
HRs in MBA programs and is constantly
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going back and forth between
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teaching and practice.
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So without any further ado,
welcome to the show, Gene.
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Gene: Thank you.
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Thank you.
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It's great to be here.
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Thomas: Okay.
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So Gene, without being too
cheeky, you've been in HR for
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decades from the rotary phone to
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digital dashboards.
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Tell me a little bit about
your mindset shifts across the
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decades.
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Gene: Yeah, I think I've been
very fortunate to be part of this
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practice for several decades.
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And when I began, everything was, for
lack of a better word, a manual process.
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Down to the point
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of my first job, yeah, there was a
rotary phone, a pencil, and a pad.
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And that was my, there you
go, there's your office.
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And the rest of it was done through
relationships and figuring it out.
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But the bigger problem was that I saw
right from the get go, and this is
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going back into the mid to late 80s.
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There was nothing written down.
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Everything was through this
historical knowledge of the
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incumbents that had survived for 20,
30 years because people didn't leave.
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They stayed forever.
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So there was this reliance
on the individual.
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So we didn't need to worry
if Bob was going to leave.
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We didn't worry that the information and
knowledge acquisition would disappear.
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So we just simply assumed
it would always be there.
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Nothing changed.
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And that's why it was a practice.
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It didn't grow for quite some time
because there wasn't really this need to.
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And then we hit the 90s and there
was a lot of political climate
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shifts in presidential concerns and
Supreme Court justices and so forth.
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And all of a sudden, HR got thrust
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to the forefront of compliance
and we better do all these things
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or we're all going to wind up,
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the company's going to be in trouble.
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So there was this incredible boom.
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It was like a gold rush in,
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we better punch up the HR function
because it went from sort of someone doing
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benefits enrollments to now we have to
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understand how to do harassment training
and FMLA and all these other things.
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And when the real
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trigger point was, believe it or not,
was the 1986 was the I-9 compliance.
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And all of a sudden, there is now
this sort of more larger focus
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where it was not just what happened
on day one in your orientation.
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It was things that impacted everyone
in the company, federal laws.
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And once that took place, we
had to start to figure out, how
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do we do this for 2,000 people?
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How do we do this for 4,000 people?
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Where before, it was really
more of a homegrown solution.
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And there was an incumbent
that was doing it for 30 years.
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And it was all paper and pencil.
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So lots of record keeping, lots of
files, but really no plan for the future.
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Just let's do it today.
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It's in the cabinet somewhere.
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And then when the shift happened,
that really was the beginning of
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all of a sudden HR having, people
noticed that we were in the building.
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Through the years, it started evolving
more into how do we get a seat at the
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table and become a stakeholder, which
really didn't take place until probably
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after like in the early 2000s, when
HR got elevated more into the C-suite
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group and saw it as a vital partner.
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But yeah, from the beginning,
it was really just,
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it was not seen as a business partner.
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It was seen more as an
administrative back office function.
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Thomas: So that first shift,
maybe this is illuminating for
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me because I've heard of this,
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that shift from the personnel
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department into being actually
even the moniker of HR, which for
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a lot of the younger folks, that
history might be even missing.
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But it sounds like there's a
big mindset shift as well, both
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in terms of what stakeholders
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as well as employees
were starting to expect.
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of HR in that late 80s, early
90s, beyond just record keeping.
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But then you said, and then there's
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another sort of evolution in the
2000s where you're now talking
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about having, being an equal
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stakeholder
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at the executive table.
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And you also mentioned paper and pencil.
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Obviously that's
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shifted, right?
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No one does record in any industry
does record keeping that way.
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But what else have been the key
shifts that you've seen since
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the 2000s, as we go into today?
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Gene: I think the key shift is that
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the former HR leaders really were wedded
to building these sort of empires.
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We're going to build these gargantuan HR
functions that have 27 people in them.
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When everybody had a silo,
there were six people in talent,
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seven people in employment.
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And I saw this as really,
it was extremely antiquated.
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Because one, they didn't
talk to each other.
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So you'd go to a meeting, but there was
47 people in the room, but no one constant
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stream of thought, like strategically, how
are we all rowing in the same direction?
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all rowing in the same direction.
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So they were creating these sort of
silos, which is in the, got built in
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the 2000s, where all of a sudden let's
build these sort of, I hate the term,
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I think centers of excellence
for lack of a better word.
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And everybody got their own cut at this.
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That's my slice.
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That's your slice.
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And so for a time there, we got
trapped and sucked into this
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sort of model where they built these
tremendously large HR functions.
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So we go from
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the rotary phone, there's three
people hanging around doing admin,
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and now you've got 30 people
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in the room and a whole lot of
initiatives that everybody started.
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It was a real boomtown for
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vendors at that time and nothing
related to software digital work.
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It was really just a lot of more employee
initiatives, like a lot of surveys,
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a lot of let's get everybody together
on retreats and born of that.
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So we were doing a lot of this
scaled up, a lot of expensive,
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high scaled initiatives.
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The problem that happened really by
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2008 is where it shifted again
because we had the housing crisis.
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All of that sort of went away
because we didn't know if we
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were going to be in business.
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Everybody got downsized
and everything changed.
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And it was interesting from that,
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as we started to rebuild again,
we realized, okay, maybe we can
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consolidate and start looking for
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people who are more
subject matter experts.
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Because there were enough people
in the field at that time,
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after 20 years, where they were
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multi-talented, they had diverse
backgrounds, myself included.
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And we were able to start building these
more really core think tanks, where
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we could come together strategically.
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And I needed eight people, not 18.
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And we were able to really start
thinking more strategically.
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eight people, not 18.
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And we were able to really start
thinking more strategically.
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And right around that time
is where I saw leaders in my
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world, especially in the auto
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business and other friends that
I had started to really invite
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HR to come to the table as
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we rebuilt the economy.
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As we, we had to come back and
say, okay, how do we come back from
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this because thousands of people
lost their jobs, homes, and so forth.
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So if we're going to rebuild
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it, what does it look like?
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So that was another attempt at when,
okay, let's take another attempt at this.
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And those structures never came back.
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Those large, very complex
structures went away.
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And then those of us that were
now in the sort of driver's seat
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now got the opportunity to say,
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okay, let's take a look at how this really
probably would work a little bit better.
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And we haven't looked back for
the last, I'd say, 18 years.
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The models I've been applying,
including when I teach, really,
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I talk about my mantra is,
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as a leader, you've got
to be connecting the dots.
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Your job is to take it from the
point of hire to the point of
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termination.
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I always say that employees, as
employees, we have two things in common.
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We work in the same company.
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We have two things in common.
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We all have a hire date and we
all have a termination date.
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Now, it might be 20 years apart,
but what happens in between?
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And that experience is up to us.
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We have to build it.
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We have to make sure it works.
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It's consistent for everybody,
regardless of our tenure.
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And if we can do that on a frequent basis,
using all the disciplines we have at our
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disposal, we've delivered on the promise.
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We've given the organization what
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it needs.
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But when I look back on looking
at your outline and getting
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ready for this, it's been
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funny to see how decades ago, we
weren't even talking to each other.
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And these disciplines were just
autonomous and self-directed.
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You handle
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hiring, you handle this, you handle
benefits, you never connected the dots.
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So I didn't know
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what benefits was doing.
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I didn't know what payroll did.
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So there was a real disconnect for the
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employee.
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Cause it was like, it's like calling a
department store when you're looking for
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a product and you get
transferred nine times.
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There was a lot of that.
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And now with technology
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and sophisticated technology, we
can bring tools in to really help
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make the employee a consumer.
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They're our customer.
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And this is a service
organization that I run, I build.
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So I'm no different than if
you came and had your car fixed
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at a dealership and you expected to
leave there with your car fixed and
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for a fair price, you're an employee,
you should expect the same from me.
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that you get hired.
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If you have questions, your experience
through my function should be the same.
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And if I haven't done
that, then of course,
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I've not delivered on my brand promise in
terms of the HR functions that I build.
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And I train my staff in I want
the employee to be satisfied
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but also as a customer of us.
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And if we ever loose sight of that,
whatever HR person you'll ever speak to,
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if that's not part of their
narrative, then in my opinion,
231
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that's not, they need to do it
232
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in a different way.
233
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Thomas: That's your core customer.
234
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That's who you're serving.
235
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And you need to keep
236
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that front of mind, or at least in
the background to any particular
237
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initiative that you have in
238
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place.
239
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So stretch.
240
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the story about the history a
little bit digging a little bit
241
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further because I'm curious.
242
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So it sounds like really in the
2000s ahead of the great recession is
243
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when you saw the explosion of what's
244
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called centers of excellence and
really in-depth silos developing
245
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and almost empires within an HR
246
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department, which all came
crashing down with the rest of the
247
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economy and the overall headcount
248
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plan in general for most companies.
249
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And then it got rebuilt in the 2010s
250
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with, more integrated functions.
251
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And yet I have seen large
talent acquisition groups and
252
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talent management and L&D.
253
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And then you start to add in things
like DEI and you can add B into that
254
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as another lever and expand it a bit.
255
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And especially going into the COVID era
with basically more being on the plate of
256
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the HR team, remote policies, vaccination
policies, other types of governance,
257
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things that are coming into play.
258
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So how did that evolve?
259
00:13:01,764 --> 00:13:06,539
Because clearly there's been pretty
big shifts pre-COVID and post-COVID
260
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in a lot of organizations and at
least in what HR is expected of.
261
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Gene: Yeah.
262
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I think we saw in the last five
years when COVID happened and
263
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post COVID.
264
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Yeah.
265
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I think right now, some of the HR leaders,
you got a little bit of a struggle
266
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here because organizations
I think are stuck.
267
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Look at from HR, I also
talk about generational
268
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issues such that right now you have
in the, we have in the workforce
269
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five generations still with us from
senior citizens all the way up to
270
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Gen Z and everybody in between.
271
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And we're trying to
272
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accommodate and develop policies around
work-life balance, remote work, hybrids.
273
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So yeah, HR is now
274
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being challenged with, okay, how
do we create high engagement?
275
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It's the number one question.
276
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How do I create a highly
277
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engaged workforce to increase retention?
278
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I also attract people to come work here.
279
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We get on the
280
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phone and we talk to candidates.
281
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It's the first question they ask.
282
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Do I have to be there every day?
283
00:14:05,714 --> 00:14:07,154
Do I have to work eight hours a day?
284
00:14:07,769 --> 00:14:08,564
What are the hours?
285
00:14:08,594 --> 00:14:09,494
It's this and this.
286
00:14:09,524 --> 00:14:10,609
Oh, are you flexible?
287
00:14:10,649 --> 00:14:13,899
So these things are now new in our
288
00:14:14,149 --> 00:14:19,649
space and we're being challenged with
handbook policies, post-COVID scenarios.
289
00:14:19,659 --> 00:14:20,199
Like you said,
290
00:14:20,829 --> 00:14:24,529
people still not ready to come
back, companies making decisions
291
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where you have to come back.
292
00:14:26,329 --> 00:14:29,979
And then you have people in terms of just
their attitude about working full-time
293
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or in terms of just working in general.
294
00:14:34,179 --> 00:14:37,099
We've seen our turnover just in all.
295
00:14:37,099 --> 00:14:41,099
And when I talk to even people
with students, it's a mixed bag.
296
00:14:41,139 --> 00:14:43,859
I haven't seen this, of course,
in my tenure, in my career,
297
00:14:43,859 --> 00:14:45,329
because this is something new
298
00:14:45,329 --> 00:14:48,419
that kind of showed up a few
years ago where people are really
299
00:14:48,419 --> 00:14:50,149
questioning, what do I really
300
00:14:50,149 --> 00:14:55,499
need to be there if I'm highly
productive, does it matter if I'm
301
00:14:55,499 --> 00:14:59,899
sitting in my office or sitting in
my house or remote somewhere else?
302
00:15:00,419 --> 00:15:04,249
And what are policies
that could support that?
303
00:15:04,359 --> 00:15:08,679
Will we have the opportunity to, is
the company flexible, even with hours?
304
00:15:08,679 --> 00:15:11,219
of work and even time off.
305
00:15:11,249 --> 00:15:12,729
Why do we have PTO policies?
306
00:15:12,739 --> 00:15:14,019
Why isn't it more flexible?
307
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:14,919
Take off when I need.
308
00:15:14,919 --> 00:15:17,639
I work when I work 12 hours a day.
309
00:15:18,179 --> 00:15:19,879
Why do I have to be sitting
here eight hours a day?
310
00:15:20,119 --> 00:15:23,569
So we get asked those questions
frequently, but I hear it
311
00:15:23,569 --> 00:15:24,909
more from candidates than I
312
00:15:25,479 --> 00:15:28,599
hear it from employees because
the ones we've hired seem to be
313
00:15:28,739 --> 00:15:31,189
okay with the scenario that we
314
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:31,699
offer them.
315
00:15:32,229 --> 00:15:34,389
But I do get it a lot from candidates.
316
00:15:35,069 --> 00:15:37,969
Thomas: And you're talking specifically
about the new generation of candidates.
317
00:15:37,969 --> 00:15:38,679
Yeah, we see.
318
00:15:38,749 --> 00:15:39,039
Yeah.
319
00:15:39,049 --> 00:15:39,579
Gene: Yeah.
320
00:15:39,599 --> 00:15:44,389
I would say if I was, I'd say people
that are in the workforce longer may
321
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:47,759
be accustomed to, they've adapted to
the different needs or requirements.
322
00:15:47,809 --> 00:15:48,229
Right.
323
00:15:48,299 --> 00:15:51,749
And those that are entering the workforce
or relatively new to the workforce
324
00:15:52,099 --> 00:15:54,349
have seen others getting or receiving
325
00:15:54,349 --> 00:15:57,734
more flexibility or organizations
being more flexible.
326
00:15:57,749 --> 00:16:00,159
These are very common
questions that we get asked.
327
00:16:00,279 --> 00:16:02,719
It's usually comes up as the
first or second thing they ask.
328
00:16:02,779 --> 00:16:05,989
And we've disqualified many as a result
329
00:16:05,989 --> 00:16:06,309
of that.
330
00:16:06,859 --> 00:16:10,409
only want to work X hours,
scenario, time, and so forth.
331
00:16:10,749 --> 00:16:11,619
And I respect it.
332
00:16:11,809 --> 00:16:15,029
people have a right to do whatever
they feel is right for them.
333
00:16:15,459 --> 00:16:20,159
The hard point is, when you have a
CEO or C-suite saying, I want highly
334
00:16:20,159 --> 00:16:24,599
engaged, highly productive,
available, it's okay.
335
00:16:24,599 --> 00:16:27,259
So you have this long list
over here and I'm trying
336
00:16:27,259 --> 00:16:28,129
to match that up.
337
00:16:28,309 --> 00:16:30,819
Some days feel like you're
a hundred miles apart.
338
00:16:31,359 --> 00:16:32,389
I respect, of course,
339
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:35,489
I work for C-suite we want to make
sure we give them what they need.
340
00:16:35,929 --> 00:16:39,899
But my talent team is challenged
with, feel like sometimes we're
341
00:16:39,899 --> 00:16:41,069
on the back of a fishing boat and
342
00:16:41,069 --> 00:16:43,079
you got a line in the water and
you feel like you got a hook, you
343
00:16:43,089 --> 00:16:45,069
got a bite, and then they didn't,
344
00:16:45,109 --> 00:16:46,184
nope, lost it.
345
00:16:46,239 --> 00:16:47,579
Some days just feel like that.
346
00:16:47,589 --> 00:16:49,609
But there is a shift in this.
347
00:16:49,609 --> 00:16:50,469
And I think companies
348
00:16:50,469 --> 00:16:54,649
and organizations in the future, I think
this is going to have to be a very strong,
349
00:16:54,819 --> 00:16:58,589
very important strategic discussion
that they're going to need to have.
350
00:16:59,289 --> 00:17:00,479
Because I also see everybody
351
00:17:00,689 --> 00:17:01,279
digging in.
352
00:17:01,479 --> 00:17:05,799
Recently, you can see on the internet,
everybody's, heck no, they got to come
353
00:17:05,799 --> 00:17:05,959
back.
354
00:17:06,118 --> 00:17:07,589
We require that they come back.
355
00:17:08,049 --> 00:17:10,589
Meanwhile, I see commercial
real estate for sale signs
356
00:17:10,589 --> 00:17:11,108
everywhere.
357
00:17:11,729 --> 00:17:12,309
Because is
358
00:17:14,679 --> 00:17:15,419
that really needed?
359
00:17:15,569 --> 00:17:17,138
I can say this after all these years.
360
00:17:17,624 --> 00:17:21,314
Some people, we can have productive
individuals, not have to sit
361
00:17:21,694 --> 00:17:24,074
somewhere per se, because it's
362
00:17:24,074 --> 00:17:25,914
somebody's idea of productivity.
363
00:17:26,723 --> 00:17:29,384
What really is going to
be the most important?
364
00:17:29,414 --> 00:17:31,364
I'm in retail, so it's a
little bit different for me.
365
00:17:31,764 --> 00:17:36,584
I can't sell cars from home per
se or service cars from my house.
366
00:17:37,084 --> 00:17:39,974
So it is a little bit different
because I'm in a retail setting.
367
00:17:40,534 --> 00:17:45,234
But in terms of traditional other settings
like accounting or other office functions,
368
00:17:45,314 --> 00:17:48,394
I think there's a lot of opportunity for
discussion around that topic the future,
369
00:17:48,394 --> 00:17:50,694
especially with AI and other tools.
370
00:17:52,554 --> 00:17:52,754
Thomas: Yeah.
371
00:17:52,754 --> 00:17:55,514
So then if you're looking
forward a little bit with this,
372
00:17:55,514 --> 00:17:57,114
we talk about how the mindset
373
00:17:57,144 --> 00:17:59,534
has maybe shifted for the
function over the decades.
374
00:17:59,909 --> 00:18:05,534
And in that time, you've built and rebuilt
multiple HR functions from the ground
375
00:18:05,544 --> 00:18:11,099
up or rebuilt down to the studs and back
up based on what's relevant at the time.
376
00:18:11,629 --> 00:18:19,094
So what's different about that today,
if you had to, if at all, what would
377
00:18:19,264 --> 00:18:23,044
be different about your mindset if
you're trying to build or rebuild
378
00:18:23,094 --> 00:18:24,854
an HR function from the ground up?
379
00:18:25,354 --> 00:18:30,164
Gene: What I always look for in my
recent work, I always look at, first,
380
00:18:30,304 --> 00:18:34,724
because I've also done consulting, I
sit with the senior leaders and discuss,
381
00:18:34,784 --> 00:18:40,674
get their vision in terms of really
where they want to ultimately be in
382
00:18:40,674 --> 00:18:42,534
terms of their organization's outcome.
383
00:18:43,014 --> 00:18:43,594
What's your goal?
384
00:18:44,394 --> 00:18:48,744
Growth, profitability, acquisitions.
385
00:18:48,754 --> 00:18:53,694
And we have that structure
related to, okay, so I know
386
00:18:53,704 --> 00:18:55,004
from a business standpoint,
387
00:18:55,744 --> 00:18:56,424
where you're headed.
388
00:18:56,974 --> 00:18:58,424
And to your point about building it
389
00:18:58,424 --> 00:19:03,044
different, years ago, it was,
we need a recruiting department.
390
00:19:03,064 --> 00:19:04,884
We need an employment group.
391
00:19:04,929 --> 00:19:05,294
These are
392
00:19:05,294 --> 00:19:06,624
the main things we want to focus on.
393
00:19:07,614 --> 00:19:10,514
What's different now is
in the program I teach in,
394
00:19:10,564 --> 00:19:11,544
it's an MBA program.
395
00:19:12,194 --> 00:19:15,614
Future leaders of HR will
have advanced degrees, MBAs.
396
00:19:16,274 --> 00:19:16,634
Years ago,
397
00:19:16,634 --> 00:19:18,374
we thought it was law degrees,
but that didn't happen.
398
00:19:18,794 --> 00:19:20,354
So now it's MBAs.
399
00:19:21,104 --> 00:19:21,804
And I teach them.
400
00:19:21,804 --> 00:19:22,684
Those are the ones I teach.
401
00:19:23,134 --> 00:19:24,334
And I tell them, I said,
402
00:19:25,194 --> 00:19:28,554
what I'm so excited about, and the fact
that you're doing this is, to your point,
403
00:19:29,954 --> 00:19:32,494
building these structures with
people with strong business acumen,
404
00:19:33,234 --> 00:19:34,564
strong business skills.
405
00:19:34,594 --> 00:19:35,944
It wasn't in any HR program.
406
00:19:35,954 --> 00:19:37,894
HR programs didn't exist 30 years ago.
407
00:19:38,354 --> 00:19:39,054
Now they do.
408
00:19:39,054 --> 00:19:43,784
There's a lot of them, but are we
really teaching the business skills,
409
00:19:43,784 --> 00:19:49,114
financial analysis, data analysis,
general accounting, so forth, in
410
00:19:49,114 --> 00:19:50,774
combination of the HR skills in terms
411
00:19:50,774 --> 00:19:51,704
of the HR disciplines?
412
00:19:51,744 --> 00:19:52,564
But here's the thing.
413
00:19:53,074 --> 00:19:55,544
If I sit in a union
negotiation, can you do the
414
00:19:55,544 --> 00:19:56,894
analytics and financials?
415
00:19:57,554 --> 00:19:58,674
Union's going to hand them to you.
416
00:19:58,974 --> 00:19:59,594
Do you know them?
417
00:20:00,374 --> 00:20:02,104
Sit in a senior C-suite meeting.
418
00:20:02,104 --> 00:20:06,694
They're going to pull out the financials
for the business, and they're going to ask
419
00:20:06,694 --> 00:20:08,014
you, what do you think we should do here?
420
00:20:08,469 --> 00:20:09,454
You're the HR leader.
421
00:20:09,754 --> 00:20:10,494
What are you going to say?
422
00:20:10,544 --> 00:20:11,244
I don't know.
423
00:20:11,524 --> 00:20:14,004
So we have to build it now.
424
00:20:15,394 --> 00:20:16,974
It's aligned with the business.
425
00:20:17,794 --> 00:20:24,204
So it becomes almost a companion
piece to COO and the CEO.
426
00:20:24,994 --> 00:20:27,484
So you learn the operation,
you learn the business.
427
00:20:27,554 --> 00:20:29,484
And then now we say, okay, look, this
428
00:20:29,484 --> 00:20:32,494
is what we have to accomplish
for the business on the HR side.
429
00:20:32,924 --> 00:20:35,094
From a talent standpoint, from a
430
00:20:35,094 --> 00:20:39,044
compliance standpoint, the kinds
of leaders we want to bring into.
431
00:20:39,134 --> 00:20:39,994
And the biggest piece,
432
00:20:39,994 --> 00:20:43,844
and you mentioned it before, what
kind of employee development and
433
00:20:43,844 --> 00:20:45,224
training do we want to do to get
434
00:20:45,224 --> 00:20:46,714
people up to that level?
435
00:20:47,124 --> 00:20:49,544
Because I know where the business is
going, so I got to get the people in
436
00:20:49,544 --> 00:20:50,784
the organization up there.
437
00:20:51,414 --> 00:20:54,654
Now, this was not asked of HR in the past.
438
00:20:55,314 --> 00:20:58,964
It was give me a handbook,
make sure I don't get sued.
439
00:20:59,524 --> 00:21:04,084
And we thought, 25 years ago,
you're like, wow, that's great work.
440
00:21:04,154 --> 00:21:04,734
Let's do it.
441
00:21:04,804 --> 00:21:05,704
And we all did it.
442
00:21:05,994 --> 00:21:06,704
And it was great.
443
00:21:06,884 --> 00:21:11,204
But having been in the business now
for this period of time, I've got
444
00:21:11,534 --> 00:21:15,529
really to watch a front row seat to
the evolution of all of this business.
445
00:21:15,784 --> 00:21:20,704
to see that the biggest transition
that I've seen to any of this is
446
00:21:20,704 --> 00:21:22,064
that the business invited us in.
447
00:21:23,414 --> 00:21:28,544
The door got open, the invitation
happened, and we showed up.
448
00:21:29,354 --> 00:21:30,294
And organizations that were
449
00:21:30,294 --> 00:21:33,464
smarter ahead of the curve did it
probably about 10, 15 years ago.
450
00:21:33,584 --> 00:21:34,774
So they've already incorporated
451
00:21:34,784 --> 00:21:37,634
CHROs and there's VP of HR.
452
00:21:37,634 --> 00:21:41,764
And most of these are people that
have about 20, 25 years experience.
453
00:21:41,814 --> 00:21:42,374
They've been doing it.
454
00:21:42,374 --> 00:21:43,274
They've been in the trench.
455
00:21:43,864 --> 00:21:48,744
So you've got this really sweet
spot that some organizations have
456
00:21:48,744 --> 00:21:53,204
just really hooked into while
other organizations are still, I
457
00:21:53,204 --> 00:21:54,684
think, haven't adapted to that.
458
00:21:54,684 --> 00:21:56,994
So there's still, I think, way too much.
459
00:21:56,994 --> 00:21:58,714
I think one of your questions,
they're still stuck in this
460
00:21:58,714 --> 00:22:01,524
administrative transactional phase.
461
00:22:02,104 --> 00:22:05,844
So it's really about making
sure we run payroll and we have
462
00:22:05,844 --> 00:22:07,254
all the compliance stuff done,
463
00:22:07,264 --> 00:22:09,084
which is really very important.
464
00:22:09,994 --> 00:22:15,234
But in terms of what the outcome and
the expectation is, it's HR aligned
465
00:22:15,934 --> 00:22:18,364
with C-suite on the business outcomes.
466
00:22:18,944 --> 00:22:23,524
And how can you help me to get
there as a critical partnership?
467
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,760
Thomas: So help me get this
straight, Gene, because I'm with
468
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,800
you on the idea, of course, that
469
00:22:51,850 --> 00:22:56,100
you're starting with the C-suite
stakeholders and ensuring
470
00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:57,490
that you're aligned with their
471
00:22:57,490 --> 00:23:00,130
vision for the business
and how you can help.
472
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,660
And then you're getting into
all the different tools.
473
00:23:03,670 --> 00:23:05,010
So number one, you're putting out,
474
00:23:05,060 --> 00:23:06,310
okay, the administrative stuff,
475
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:07,270
it doesn't need to be mentioned,
476
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,480
but obviously you need to
make sure payroll is running
477
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:10,870
and benefits programs are set,
478
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:12,130
but that's part of the remit.
479
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:16,220
But then if you're aligning to the
business, you need to get talent.
480
00:23:16,410 --> 00:23:18,390
And so there's a talent acquisition arm.
481
00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:21,630
You just mentioned how important
reskilling and upskilling is
482
00:23:21,630 --> 00:23:22,440
and learning and development,
483
00:23:22,450 --> 00:23:24,850
having that in place and
career ladders and such,
484
00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:28,000
as well as just make sure
there's the right programs in
485
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,730
place so that you're driving
486
00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:31,060
retention with that customer.
487
00:23:31,630 --> 00:23:34,320
But when I put all that together,
it sure feels we're just talking
488
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,990
about, okay, that's a pretty
sizable HR department and team and
489
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:41,870
sub-departments to make sure all
490
00:23:41,870 --> 00:23:42,400
those happens.
491
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,490
It sounds like to me, benefits and
payroll and talent acquisition,
492
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,520
talent development, L&D, arguably
all these like centers of excellence.
493
00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:50,460
So if there's all
494
00:23:50,460 --> 00:23:54,520
this demand, when there's the
proper alignment and you've
495
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:55,810
gotten the invitation to
496
00:23:55,810 --> 00:23:59,940
the table, there's a demand for all
this to happen from the HR leader.
497
00:24:00,390 --> 00:24:01,780
How does that sit with your
498
00:24:01,780 --> 00:24:06,130
previous comment, which says that,
but in the today's world or going
499
00:24:06,130 --> 00:24:09,960
forward, it's there's not going to be
as much, it's not going to be as big a
500
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,080
function to enable all of the things when
in reality, more is being asked of us.
501
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,240
Gene: It's a good point.
502
00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:17,000
So I think it's two things.
503
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,300
I think one, you have to basically
look at the size of the organization.
504
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:24,080
So I'm not going to say that if
you work with an organization
505
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,990
with 10,000 people, you would
506
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:28,400
have two HR people that
wouldn't, it wouldn't.
507
00:24:28,405 --> 00:24:31,670
So it really comes down
to being what we scale.
508
00:24:32,375 --> 00:24:34,955
If I'm in an organization with
a thousand people, I might
509
00:24:34,955 --> 00:24:37,445
need five or six individuals.
510
00:24:38,085 --> 00:24:42,265
The other thing, and this is
just, it's my opinion, but I
511
00:24:42,265 --> 00:24:47,545
I seek out people that are incredibly good
at what they do, that sit in my HR group.
512
00:24:47,865 --> 00:24:51,425
So I will wait and I will handpick
the people that I can get.
513
00:24:51,515 --> 00:24:53,595
Subject matter experts and
514
00:24:53,595 --> 00:24:55,175
people that are incredibly talented.
515
00:24:55,495 --> 00:24:59,305
I do not look for people that
are, they know a thousand, a
516
00:24:59,305 --> 00:25:00,725
hundred things in HR and they,
517
00:25:01,165 --> 00:25:02,215
I can do all this stuff.
518
00:25:02,765 --> 00:25:03,715
I'm not looking for that.
519
00:25:04,155 --> 00:25:07,725
What I'm saying is I'm seeing
more of a trade to where people,
520
00:25:08,315 --> 00:25:12,285
I always say, and I teach that
I become a subject matter expert
521
00:25:12,725 --> 00:25:14,115
in a couple of different subjects
522
00:25:14,115 --> 00:25:17,315
related to the discipline
so that I can use people.
523
00:25:17,465 --> 00:25:19,845
I have a background in union negotiations,
524
00:25:20,125 --> 00:25:21,045
collective bargaining.
525
00:25:21,075 --> 00:25:25,065
I have degrees in education, and
I also have my HR credentials.
526
00:25:25,655 --> 00:25:28,635
I might work on several
different things a day, but so
527
00:25:28,635 --> 00:25:29,965
do the people on my staff.
528
00:25:30,575 --> 00:25:34,985
So they're all given key elements of
what's required in the organization.
529
00:25:35,835 --> 00:25:39,615
And I have right now, seven people
that work with me on my team.
530
00:25:39,615 --> 00:25:41,045
When I got here, there were three
531
00:25:41,555 --> 00:25:42,605
I've added to staff.
532
00:25:42,965 --> 00:25:46,985
So we scale based on what the
demand is, but I don't need 11.
533
00:25:48,225 --> 00:25:49,935
Because some of the
stuff becomes redundant.
534
00:25:50,025 --> 00:25:53,255
And then some of the questions
I know that you may ask is, how
535
00:25:53,255 --> 00:25:54,565
do we get the other work done?
536
00:25:55,245 --> 00:25:56,005
I use vendors.
537
00:25:56,525 --> 00:25:57,855
I use my payroll system.
538
00:25:58,265 --> 00:25:59,595
I use my HRS system.
539
00:26:00,155 --> 00:26:03,085
I leverage other tools that
I purchase from vendors.
540
00:26:03,585 --> 00:26:08,915
And then through leveraging these
tools, much of that's being done.
541
00:26:08,915 --> 00:26:09,565
The heavy lifting is
542
00:26:09,565 --> 00:26:10,245
done by them.
543
00:26:10,845 --> 00:26:13,505
And we're here as the business
partner handling things day to day.
544
00:26:13,875 --> 00:26:14,835
I agree with
545
00:26:14,835 --> 00:26:17,915
you that it could sound like I
need a sizable number of people,
546
00:26:18,675 --> 00:26:20,165
but I've found that at the
547
00:26:20,165 --> 00:26:26,635
current time, there is a very good
amount of experienced HR talent
548
00:26:26,655 --> 00:26:30,525
in the marketplace that can do a
multitude of things incredibly well.
549
00:26:31,315 --> 00:26:32,595
And they're multifaceted.
550
00:26:32,645 --> 00:26:37,625
And I have those people working for me
and I've handpicked them because I have
551
00:26:37,625 --> 00:26:43,435
loaded the deck before, but unfortunately
I've found that you have some
552
00:26:43,435 --> 00:26:45,245
people that are highly
productive and some that are not.
553
00:26:45,295 --> 00:26:47,945
I don't like to overstaff and
then I have deal with that later.
554
00:26:47,955 --> 00:26:49,335
It's just, it's my style.
555
00:26:49,955 --> 00:26:51,655
But it's a very good
question that you asked.
556
00:26:51,655 --> 00:26:52,625
So I appreciate that.
557
00:26:53,945 --> 00:26:54,205
Thomas: Yeah.
558
00:26:54,205 --> 00:26:58,495
So it sounds like it's a combination of
the right people who are, there's a lot of
559
00:26:58,505 --> 00:27:02,895
hyphenated roles and a lot of
collaborative efforts across them as well.
560
00:27:02,895 --> 00:27:03,525
On top of that,
561
00:27:04,085 --> 00:27:09,315
combined with vendors, tooling,
cutting edge processes so that
562
00:27:09,315 --> 00:27:11,055
team can achieve even more faster.
563
00:27:11,910 --> 00:27:15,395
But then when you say all that,
let's talk, let's follow the
564
00:27:16,450 --> 00:27:17,900
talent question a little bit
565
00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:22,880
more deeply, specifically HR talent,
especially you're teaching MBA grads
566
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,340
who are going to, especially if
they're doing an HR specialization,
567
00:27:25,340 --> 00:27:27,860
they're looking to get into HR roles.
568
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,730
And yet with this kind of strategy
that's being expressed around
569
00:27:33,310 --> 00:27:35,210
a leaner function with more
570
00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:39,180
experience, what is the foot
in the door in the future?
571
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,150
How do you get into HR?
572
00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:46,590
Or are you telling your students, don't
do something else first, then come back?
573
00:27:46,590 --> 00:27:47,050
to this later.
574
00:27:47,060 --> 00:27:51,240
Gene: No, there's always going
to be a need for, look, there's
575
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,150
three layers that we have
576
00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:52,860
to achieve, right?
577
00:27:52,860 --> 00:27:54,890
We have an administrative
layer, a tactical layer, and
578
00:27:54,890 --> 00:27:56,130
we have a strategic layer.
579
00:27:56,990 --> 00:27:59,740
I'm not expecting a student to
come out of college and be running.
580
00:28:00,510 --> 00:28:02,040
They're going to be in the strategy
581
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:02,900
function.
582
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,560
They're not going to be
sitting, but they're always
583
00:28:04,570 --> 00:28:05,680
going to be administrative work
584
00:28:05,690 --> 00:28:06,520
that needs to get done.
585
00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:10,350
All of us had to make the phone
calls, make the copies, sit in
586
00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:12,270
the trenches, arrange meetings.
587
00:28:12,670 --> 00:28:17,040
So there is still, I have two
administrators here working with me.
588
00:28:17,150 --> 00:28:19,160
Both of them are juniors,
right from college.
589
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,860
And they are learning the business.
590
00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:24,090
They're learning the function.
591
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,050
So I tell my students, depending
on where they're at, some
592
00:28:27,530 --> 00:28:28,950
come to an MBA program already
593
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:30,300
have experience, a little bit different.
594
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:33,480
So if I have somebody that
has no experience, they'll
595
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,750
typically ask me where to begin.
596
00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:37,890
And I said, look, there's the two
areas I've seen throughout my career.
597
00:28:37,890 --> 00:28:42,310
It's been, including myself, is
either you get a position as an
598
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,300
HR coordinator, administrator.
599
00:28:44,660 --> 00:28:47,990
You're basically in here
doing work to assist from an
600
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:49,670
administrative level, which is like
601
00:28:49,670 --> 00:28:50,400
your first gate.
602
00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:55,940
Or number two, on the talent side, lots
of organizations seem to like to hire
603
00:28:55,950 --> 00:28:57,870
junior recruiters or have people come
604
00:28:57,870 --> 00:29:01,620
in and really help out with
some of the office positions or
605
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,180
there might be general staff and
606
00:29:03,620 --> 00:29:05,480
they're teaching them
how to, that's a gate.
607
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,030
One of the organizations
I was with for a while,
608
00:29:08,030 --> 00:29:12,780
about seven or eight years ago, they were
really big on going to the schools and
609
00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:16,660
pulling students out, college grads
to teach them to be junior recruiters.
610
00:29:16,660 --> 00:29:17,960
And that was their entrance
611
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,630
into that HR world.
612
00:29:20,650 --> 00:29:23,000
And I started as a
recruiter, was my first job.
613
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,680
That's how I got my sort of foot
614
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:26,160
in the door.
615
00:29:26,475 --> 00:29:28,710
We do talk about that a
lot when I'm lecturing.
616
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:32,090
I do say that the good news
is there's always opportunity.
617
00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:36,970
I said, but if you're shooting for
like you want to become a manager
618
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,920
first, or you have some sort
619
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,270
of someone's told you it's,
I try to set expectations so
620
00:29:44,270 --> 00:29:45,410
I can also help them because
621
00:29:45,420 --> 00:29:48,000
a lot of students will always
will reach out to me and review
622
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,040
resumes, give them coaching,
623
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:50,710
talk to them.
624
00:29:51,060 --> 00:29:52,070
It's part of what I do.
625
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,780
And they found that's
626
00:29:53,780 --> 00:29:56,670
very helpful because I'll share
with them sort of what to expect,
627
00:29:56,980 --> 00:29:57,960
especially if you're talking with
628
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,140
organizations and when they're
giving you input about what they're
629
00:30:01,140 --> 00:30:03,630
looking for so that you're not
630
00:30:03,630 --> 00:30:07,540
asking for a six-figure salary
and they want an administrator.
631
00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:09,620
So it helps them.
632
00:30:09,650 --> 00:30:10,310
And many of them
633
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:14,340
have gone on to get jobs and
they seem to be doing well.
634
00:30:14,390 --> 00:30:15,900
So I'm always pleased to hear that.
635
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,590
Thomas: Projecting ahead, because I like
your model of the three layers, right?
636
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:23,530
Almost administrative,
tactical, strategic.
637
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:27,540
Is it possible that the
administrative and tactical layers
638
00:30:27,540 --> 00:30:29,170
are going to get more intertwined?
639
00:30:29,450 --> 00:30:32,900
And even in a beginner
role, generally speaking.
640
00:30:33,210 --> 00:30:35,320
Because there's more and more powerful
641
00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:38,950
tools that can make a lot of the
administrative efforts move towards
642
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:43,895
the background, where even you're out
of an internship, your first role,
643
00:30:43,895 --> 00:30:46,595
you're expected to do more than what
644
00:30:47,185 --> 00:30:48,565
someone was doing earlier.
645
00:30:48,685 --> 00:30:50,035
or a decade ago.
646
00:30:50,235 --> 00:30:52,915
Gene: Yeah, I think that's
definitely a great way to look at it.
647
00:30:53,475 --> 00:30:55,785
We still see that it's here.
648
00:30:55,835 --> 00:30:56,555
We're still seeing.
649
00:30:57,445 --> 00:30:59,125
I dealt with a vendor.
650
00:30:59,125 --> 00:31:00,335
I just got rid of something.
651
00:31:00,365 --> 00:31:04,465
I went to using AI, got rid
of a, brought in another tool
652
00:31:04,785 --> 00:31:05,675
because I had a vendor that
653
00:31:05,695 --> 00:31:10,025
only accepted termination paperwork
for a benefit we had on paper.
654
00:31:10,285 --> 00:31:10,695
Like you
655
00:31:10,695 --> 00:31:11,785
had to scan and send it.
656
00:31:11,865 --> 00:31:14,825
And I said, we terminate so
many people a week, X now.
657
00:31:14,825 --> 00:31:16,925
And they're like, we only want paper.
658
00:31:17,815 --> 00:31:20,955
And I'm like, oh, you
have a fax machine too?
659
00:31:20,995 --> 00:31:21,735
I'm like, what are we?
660
00:31:22,115 --> 00:31:25,975
So we're still dealing with and
catching, this is catching up to itself.
661
00:31:26,345 --> 00:31:27,005
But I agree with you.
662
00:31:27,005 --> 00:31:29,525
The only caveat I would put in
there where I think there's a
663
00:31:29,525 --> 00:31:30,945
little bit of still a disconnect
664
00:31:31,395 --> 00:31:34,945
is that the complexity of HR, one of the
things that has changed over the last
665
00:31:34,985 --> 00:31:39,505
couple of decades is that, and I say
this to all of my students and my team.
666
00:31:40,075 --> 00:31:44,155
The work we're doing is morphing to
your point, but some of the stuff
667
00:31:44,805 --> 00:31:46,455
is becoming extremely complex.
668
00:31:47,165 --> 00:31:50,765
So it's not getting easier in
the sense that, oh, if we do
669
00:31:50,765 --> 00:31:52,655
this, everything will be fine.
670
00:31:53,825 --> 00:31:56,775
So if you have people that
are a little more junior,
671
00:31:57,255 --> 00:32:00,645
they could get swept up into things that
are just, they're in over their head,
672
00:32:01,055 --> 00:32:02,955
or they don't understand completely.
673
00:32:03,325 --> 00:32:05,025
So it's convenient, but at the same time,
674
00:32:05,025 --> 00:32:09,670
you got to be careful that
you don't realize that you now
675
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,470
missed a couple steps or caused a
676
00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:12,790
different compliance issue.
677
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:16,460
So I think it's, I'm glad
or I'm happy what you're
678
00:32:16,460 --> 00:32:16,720
saying.
679
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:17,690
It is happening.
680
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,190
It's just that I don't want to see
people put into situations too early
681
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,500
because without proper guidance or
someone mentoring them or watching them,
682
00:32:27,230 --> 00:32:29,720
it could be a bad outcome for them.
683
00:32:29,745 --> 00:32:31,780
And of course, we're always here
to protect the organization.
684
00:32:31,780 --> 00:32:34,910
So I think there's still a
little of, there's a little
685
00:32:34,910 --> 00:32:36,130
bit of a disconnect there.
686
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,190
And don't get me wrong,
687
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:39,710
I've had plenty of people I've
spoken to over the last couple of
688
00:32:39,710 --> 00:32:42,270
years, unfortunately, have been put
689
00:32:42,270 --> 00:32:46,100
into situations that
are way over their head.
690
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,650
And that's not a good outcome either.
691
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:49,090
And we don't
692
00:32:49,090 --> 00:32:54,070
want to have people just ultimately then
get so turned off that they run away
693
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:56,470
from the field and they never come back.
694
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,910
They've got a bad taste in their mouth.
695
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,250
So I agree with you that, yeah,
ultimately it will morph maybe in
696
00:33:02,250 --> 00:33:05,430
a few years, a little more, more
technology, a little more time.
697
00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:08,510
And to be answered just
slightly different,
698
00:33:08,750 --> 00:33:12,570
the schools catch up with this as
well, because they start introducing
699
00:33:12,570 --> 00:33:13,940
and talking about this more
700
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,040
in the coursework and that you
have more, you might have more
701
00:33:18,390 --> 00:33:19,870
progressive individuals out in
702
00:33:19,930 --> 00:33:20,560
front of this.
703
00:33:20,860 --> 00:33:21,190
Yes.
704
00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:27,820
think soon that will be occurring,
but I haven't seen it shift as of yet,
705
00:33:28,010 --> 00:33:28,355
just yet.
706
00:33:28,650 --> 00:33:29,280
Thomas: Quite yet.
707
00:33:29,610 --> 00:33:29,950
Okay.
708
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,670
So let me ask one more, kind of an
evergreen question about talent before
709
00:33:33,670 --> 00:33:35,800
we go into your strategy of a revamp.
710
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:42,370
What's the or how do you assess
if someone has the mindset or
711
00:33:42,370 --> 00:33:46,470
disposition to get into modern HR?
712
00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:49,190
Gene: How do I assess?
713
00:33:49,975 --> 00:33:51,425
I look at a couple of different things.
714
00:33:51,435 --> 00:33:54,260
One, I ask them, I always ask,
715
00:33:54,495 --> 00:33:58,195
My first question is really what
do they know about the field?
716
00:33:58,395 --> 00:33:59,565
What have they heard or learned?
717
00:33:59,575 --> 00:34:01,645
And where'd they get that from?
718
00:34:01,955 --> 00:34:06,085
I found that many people have family
members that have been in human resources,
719
00:34:06,190 --> 00:34:10,295
whether it's a mom or a dad, or I
have children, they've seen me do it
720
00:34:17,875 --> 00:34:18,395
about that.
721
00:34:18,445 --> 00:34:25,120
I don't know if you want to, but I
look for, really look at someone's,
722
00:34:25,130 --> 00:34:28,199
how they critically think and also
723
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,570
how they view situations
and how they solve problems.
724
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,500
Because that to me is one of the core
725
00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:38,810
skills that I look for anytime I hire
somebody is their ability to assess
726
00:34:38,830 --> 00:34:40,370
or critically think about what's
727
00:34:40,370 --> 00:34:40,980
occurring.
728
00:34:41,050 --> 00:34:44,260
Come back to me with what, and how are you
going to, how are you going to solve this
729
00:34:44,260 --> 00:34:44,679
problem?
730
00:34:44,810 --> 00:34:46,070
Come back to me with a solution.
731
00:34:47,179 --> 00:34:48,719
Many times I find people,
732
00:34:51,090 --> 00:34:52,199
it's very surfacy.
733
00:34:52,420 --> 00:34:56,360
There's not a lot of depth, but
based on what I told you a moment
734
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:57,610
ago, the complexity of what
735
00:34:57,610 --> 00:34:59,790
we're up against
nowadays, it's increasing.
736
00:34:59,790 --> 00:35:04,560
I need to know that someone has
the ability to take a breath,
737
00:35:05,230 --> 00:35:06,370
understand what's occurring,
738
00:35:07,310 --> 00:35:12,790
digest it, and then come back and say,
based on what I see, here's what I think,
739
00:35:13,220 --> 00:35:15,040
and would be a good way to approach this.
740
00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:17,290
And there's some viable opportunities.
741
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,460
Let me share those with you.
742
00:35:19,230 --> 00:35:22,730
Rather than sometimes
they're reacting or there's
743
00:35:22,730 --> 00:35:25,470
just really not a lot of insight.
744
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,670
Thomas: Or like it belies a
lack of curiosity potentially.
745
00:35:29,490 --> 00:35:30,380
So let me ask you,
746
00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:37,660
going back to away from the professorial
and talent pipeline side of things.
747
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:43,960
From a leadership perspective, as
a CHRO, if we're talking to a CHRO
748
00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:51,680
who is new at a new company and is
looking to get going, or it feels
749
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:52,920
like they're at a crossroads because
750
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,370
the business is at a crossroads and
they need to reset their function.
751
00:35:56,850 --> 00:35:58,350
You've told me earlier about
752
00:35:58,410 --> 00:36:01,470
your little bit of a tried and
true approach that you have, right?
753
00:36:01,470 --> 00:36:05,175
As when you go in to a new
organization with your war room,
754
00:36:05,535 --> 00:36:07,345
the C-suite buy-in and the war room,
755
00:36:07,345 --> 00:36:09,875
and maybe, I don't know,
is it 90 days, 100 days?
756
00:36:10,245 --> 00:36:12,685
But could you tell us a little
bit more about your approach
757
00:36:13,725 --> 00:36:17,005
there when you're trying to
re-baseline a whole organization?
758
00:36:17,015 --> 00:36:17,365
Yeah.
759
00:36:17,415 --> 00:36:20,475
Gene: Usually what I do is
I go in and I always meet.
760
00:36:20,575 --> 00:36:22,685
One of the things that I've
always done, especially with CROs,
761
00:36:24,795 --> 00:36:25,275
CEOs, COOs,
762
00:36:25,285 --> 00:36:29,175
is when I meet with them, the
first thing I'll always tell
763
00:36:29,175 --> 00:36:31,305
them is that I'm not an employee.
764
00:36:31,395 --> 00:36:33,135
I'm basically, I'm here to help.
765
00:36:33,625 --> 00:36:38,045
My job is to help you do your job
better through the services we
766
00:36:38,045 --> 00:36:38,595
can provide.
767
00:36:38,735 --> 00:36:40,725
In order to do that, I need
to know a couple of things.
768
00:36:41,255 --> 00:36:44,105
We sit down, I get their
strategy, the vision,
769
00:36:44,695 --> 00:36:47,305
and then I tell them behind
me, I use flip charts.
770
00:36:47,345 --> 00:36:49,685
I'm a big fan of my flip charts.
771
00:36:50,055 --> 00:36:51,915
And I tell them, look,
we're going to chunk this.
772
00:36:51,985 --> 00:36:54,355
And I said, you're going to
see a couple of things happen.
773
00:36:54,425 --> 00:36:57,035
One, I'm always going to show you progress
774
00:36:57,615 --> 00:36:59,095
so that you know that anything
775
00:36:59,135 --> 00:37:03,725
that we've agreed to, which are outlines
we develop right from that meeting.
776
00:37:04,465 --> 00:37:05,295
And I'll give
777
00:37:05,295 --> 00:37:06,865
them a hundred day update.
778
00:37:07,375 --> 00:37:10,775
And then I chart the hundred days
and my staff is part of that.
779
00:37:11,225 --> 00:37:13,955
They know exactly what they need
to do in that first hundred days.
780
00:37:14,335 --> 00:37:15,255
Now, all kidding,
781
00:37:15,335 --> 00:37:19,635
this assignment here, next week
is my second hundred day block
782
00:37:20,485 --> 00:37:22,005
in this assignment I'm in now.
783
00:37:22,005 --> 00:37:22,539
block in this assignment I'm in now.
784
00:37:22,615 --> 00:37:29,335
And we have achieved actually more than
we have promised and we're delivering on.
785
00:37:29,825 --> 00:37:35,495
But I basically tell the C-suite that I
see my role as an internal consultant.
786
00:37:35,975 --> 00:37:41,650
I see my team as an add value
and that we basically will always
787
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:44,060
give you a list of things or items
788
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:46,820
that we're fixing or addressing
789
00:37:46,820 --> 00:37:49,810
or rebuilding and every
step you're involved.
790
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:50,980
So you can give us feedback.
791
00:37:50,990 --> 00:37:51,860
You can give us input.
792
00:37:51,870 --> 00:37:52,980
You could redirect us.
793
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,830
But at the same time, I'm always
going to show you how it's
794
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,000
connected back to what you're
795
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:57,770
trying to do.
796
00:37:58,470 --> 00:38:01,950
So there's never really a
disconnect of why would you do that?
797
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,030
So when one of your questions about
budgets or how do you ask for more
798
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:09,660
money or there isn't really an ask.
799
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,540
This is really needed in order
for me to do this, which we
800
00:38:13,540 --> 00:38:15,300
agreed to when we started.
801
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:20,900
office.
802
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:27,000
These are just a few examples, but I
will wallpaper this room and other rooms.
803
00:38:27,460 --> 00:38:29,780
And we take those charts
and we go from room to room.
804
00:38:29,790 --> 00:38:32,170
And when I do meetings, I bring
them in with me and people
805
00:38:32,170 --> 00:38:32,550
chuckle.
806
00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:34,210
They're like, what's this guy
doing with the flip charts?
807
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:35,980
But I'll always say to them,
808
00:38:36,740 --> 00:38:37,760
this is that flip chart.
809
00:38:37,770 --> 00:38:38,935
Yeah, it's the worm.
810
00:38:39,090 --> 00:38:41,120
And I said, but they're
on the door on the outside
811
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:41,750
of the office too.
812
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:43,990
But the idea is that it's always with us.
813
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,110
It's always in front of us.
814
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,720
We never lose sight of it
because you can have a thousand
815
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:49,070
emails and never see it again.
816
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,650
Or I can have a flip chart
staring at me in my face.
817
00:38:51,650 --> 00:38:54,980
There's five of them in front of me
on the wall adjacent to this desk.
818
00:38:55,540 --> 00:38:59,100
And these are things that I
have to do over the next 30 days
819
00:38:59,590 --> 00:39:01,110
as part of the next block of a hundred.
820
00:39:01,710 --> 00:39:05,630
But I take from that and then provide
bi-weekly updates to the C-suite.
821
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,000
And from that, in the last six
months, I've been able to ask for
822
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,780
additional tools, resources, staff.
823
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,560
But it's never been the stop and start.
824
00:39:15,570 --> 00:39:19,890
It's been, here was the plan at
the beginning, and we're on course.
825
00:39:21,370 --> 00:39:25,040
that I'm asking of you is
part of the original plan.
826
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:28,890
And this is just, I'm
providing you an update.
827
00:39:30,780 --> 00:39:31,770
People say, okay.
828
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,830
And sometimes there's a pushback or
questions, but we're always able to
829
00:39:35,830 --> 00:39:40,910
refer it back to where we started with
a reference that we're here to help.
830
00:39:40,990 --> 00:39:42,820
We're here to basically help
831
00:39:42,820 --> 00:39:44,350
you achieve the goals that you want.
832
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,060
But I'll also say there's a
little bit of a trap door here
833
00:39:47,060 --> 00:39:48,040
you got to be careful about.
834
00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:49,980
I'll also tell them what I can't do.
835
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:56,060
And I think that's a trap door for some HR
functions where it's really nice to get.
836
00:39:56,090 --> 00:39:57,130
It's like a deli counter.
837
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,620
It's really great to get all the orders.
838
00:39:58,680 --> 00:39:59,580
Oh, yeah, sure.
839
00:40:00,410 --> 00:40:00,910
300 sandwiches.
840
00:40:00,910 --> 00:40:01,520
No problem.
841
00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:03,280
And then I can only make 100.
842
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,340
And now we've let, we've
really dropped the ball.
843
00:40:06,350 --> 00:40:07,660
We look terrible
844
00:40:07,930 --> 00:40:09,920
in the eyes of the senior leadership.
845
00:40:10,270 --> 00:40:14,470
So we don't, my staff knows,
we don't over promise,
846
00:40:15,010 --> 00:40:15,490
never.
847
00:40:16,110 --> 00:40:20,020
And number two, if we don't
know what it is or how to do it.
848
00:40:20,580 --> 00:40:22,350
We just, we'll be transparent
849
00:40:23,110 --> 00:40:25,280
because it's our worst day.
850
00:40:25,330 --> 00:40:31,540
And it's a really a bad look to say,
oh, sure, we can do that because
851
00:40:31,540 --> 00:40:33,620
somebody brought it to our attention.
852
00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:35,850
And it's just not in our bandwidth.
853
00:40:35,870 --> 00:40:39,000
It's just not in our – it
doesn't belong here.
854
00:40:39,650 --> 00:40:43,540
And I think that's sometimes in
organizations we all want to get credit
855
00:40:43,540 --> 00:40:49,300
or we want to look like we're doing a
great job, but the outcome could backfire.
856
00:40:49,930 --> 00:40:55,980
So as part of my plan, I'm always
revisiting my charts, my original plan,
857
00:40:55,980 --> 00:40:57,540
which was four pages when I started.
858
00:40:58,290 --> 00:40:59,710
It was four sheets on a PowerPoint.
859
00:40:59,710 --> 00:41:00,490
It was four things.
860
00:41:01,380 --> 00:41:03,070
Here's the four things I can do for you.
861
00:41:03,660 --> 00:41:05,490
And all of that has been accomplished.
862
00:41:05,890 --> 00:41:10,040
And now we have a plan for each
hundred days and stay with that.
863
00:41:10,250 --> 00:41:14,430
I did tell them when I started,
because my orientation to this, I said,
864
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:15,560
it's going to take about two years.
865
00:41:16,180 --> 00:41:20,690
I said, so if you're willing to go with
me for this journey, I need two years.
866
00:41:21,890 --> 00:41:23,820
I said, in two years, we'll revisit.
867
00:41:24,140 --> 00:41:27,370
Not that we won't talk for two
years, but you have to give me
868
00:41:27,380 --> 00:41:27,920
time.
869
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,445
Not 10, but two is a good number.
870
00:41:32,045 --> 00:41:36,245
And we're about seven months
in and we're on track.
871
00:41:36,905 --> 00:41:39,565
And in the past, when I've done
this with other structures,
872
00:41:40,165 --> 00:41:41,575
that's how we've achieved.
873
00:41:41,595 --> 00:41:42,995
We've made that progress.
874
00:41:43,065 --> 00:41:45,835
We've made, we've grown,
we've added the resources.
875
00:41:45,835 --> 00:41:46,875
We built the structure,
876
00:41:47,235 --> 00:41:49,875
got the vendors we needed,
law firms included.
877
00:41:50,305 --> 00:41:52,245
And all these things came together.
878
00:41:52,245 --> 00:41:55,275
And I've had my staff say to
me, man, I look back, I can't
879
00:41:55,275 --> 00:41:56,875
believe like this all happened.
880
00:41:56,875 --> 00:42:00,425
And I'm like, it's by
design, not by accident.
881
00:42:01,075 --> 00:42:04,915
And I said, you had an
organization that trusted in us.
882
00:42:05,415 --> 00:42:07,805
And there's a lot of
trust in the sense that,
883
00:42:08,175 --> 00:42:11,155
but as long as we deliver
on what we said we would do
884
00:42:11,375 --> 00:42:12,745
and it's a quality product,
885
00:42:13,385 --> 00:42:18,365
there's really no reason for them to
say, don't continue or don't do any more.
886
00:42:19,295 --> 00:42:23,355
Thomas: But you're buying that, or not
buying, you're gaining that trust upfront,
887
00:42:23,385 --> 00:42:25,105
including in the interview process
888
00:42:25,105 --> 00:42:28,595
by aligning on what you can and cannot do
889
00:42:28,875 --> 00:42:29,845
way up front.
890
00:42:30,275 --> 00:42:35,945
And you're balancing the rope to give two
years to cause a bigger transformation
891
00:42:36,215 --> 00:42:39,335
with specific outcomes we're
going to have in a hundred days.
892
00:42:39,825 --> 00:42:42,065
And then sticking to that drumbeat,
893
00:42:42,115 --> 00:42:46,545
which continuously builds that
credibility on an ongoing basis, keeps
894
00:42:46,545 --> 00:42:47,795
reinforcing keeps reinforcing that trust,
895
00:42:47,805 --> 00:42:52,015
which gives you more alignment, a gap to
align even better for the next hundred
896
00:42:52,025 --> 00:42:54,865
days and to go deeper in your plans.
897
00:42:55,025 --> 00:43:00,665
think that's a great kind of
framework, but it also comes with the
898
00:43:00,665 --> 00:43:03,375
confidence probably comes
with experience and seeing the
899
00:43:03,375 --> 00:43:05,235
two-year cycles or the transfer
900
00:43:05,235 --> 00:43:06,865
transformations over and over again.
901
00:43:07,295 --> 00:43:10,255
So what advice would you have
for an HR leader who's coming in
902
00:43:10,595 --> 00:43:14,705
at that level for the first time if
they're building or rebuilding that group?
903
00:43:14,725 --> 00:43:17,065
Gene: I always say that
it's on my LinkedIn page.
904
00:43:17,665 --> 00:43:19,435
My brand is that I'm a trusted advisor.
905
00:43:20,395 --> 00:43:21,115
That's my brand.
906
00:43:21,125 --> 00:43:24,935
I don't build houses and fix cars.
907
00:43:25,425 --> 00:43:26,395
I'm a trusted advisor.
908
00:43:26,625 --> 00:43:27,185
So I would tell
909
00:43:27,185 --> 00:43:30,605
any HR leader that, look, you have
to become a trusted advisor to
910
00:43:30,605 --> 00:43:31,945
the individuals that you serve.
911
00:43:32,585 --> 00:43:34,825
They have to believe that, you're here on
912
00:43:34,825 --> 00:43:38,045
their behalf and that they can
come to you and they can trust
913
00:43:38,045 --> 00:43:39,945
you with pretty much anything.
914
00:43:41,095 --> 00:43:45,875
And through you, you will then
delegate to your staff to deliver
915
00:43:45,915 --> 00:43:47,465
and get those other things done,
916
00:43:48,005 --> 00:43:50,745
whether it's hiring, terminations,
et cetera, et cetera,
917
00:43:50,755 --> 00:43:51,895
acquisitions and so forth.
918
00:43:52,275 --> 00:43:54,085
They need to know that's the goal.
919
00:43:54,755 --> 00:43:55,325
There's two goals.
920
00:43:55,345 --> 00:43:56,425
One is trusted advisor.
921
00:43:56,445 --> 00:43:59,350
And the other one I always joke
about is that you have to get
922
00:43:59,350 --> 00:44:01,145
a seat at the table, right?
923
00:44:01,205 --> 00:44:01,515
And if you
924
00:44:01,515 --> 00:44:04,715
get a seat at the table, okay,
and you're a trusted advisor,
925
00:44:05,095 --> 00:44:06,415
you're now sitting in a very
926
00:44:06,545 --> 00:44:11,045
important space in the organization
because they're going to come to you.
927
00:44:11,585 --> 00:44:14,495
You wear the suit and now
they know you're there.
928
00:44:14,505 --> 00:44:15,185
You've earned it.
929
00:44:15,325 --> 00:44:19,175
The tougher part is keeping
the seat and the trust.
930
00:44:19,175 --> 00:44:22,565
I would tell a new leader the same thing.
931
00:44:22,945 --> 00:44:28,075
It's not assumed that you will always have
it because you have to earn it every day.
932
00:44:28,675 --> 00:44:31,125
And your staff needs to
know that you earn it,
933
00:44:31,605 --> 00:44:33,815
not monthly, not
quarterly, it's every day.
934
00:44:34,625 --> 00:44:36,575
Every day, because you
mentioned that rope,
935
00:44:36,585 --> 00:44:38,545
we walk the rope every day.
936
00:44:39,195 --> 00:44:41,585
And some days are, today was a good day.
937
00:44:41,685 --> 00:44:42,905
It was relatively quiet.
938
00:44:42,975 --> 00:44:44,475
The holiday, people are going on vacation.
939
00:44:44,795 --> 00:44:46,435
So the phones aren't blowing up
940
00:44:46,435 --> 00:44:48,275
and everybody's in a good
mood because it's Labor Day.
941
00:44:48,715 --> 00:44:50,525
But then there's the other days
942
00:44:51,075 --> 00:44:55,595
when you feel like the building's
on fire and everybody's
943
00:44:55,615 --> 00:44:57,795
really at their wits end
and we get through it.
944
00:44:57,935 --> 00:45:00,725
But it's every day, the
consistency of that.
945
00:45:01,695 --> 00:45:06,285
And when you set the table with, as a new
leader, and you set the table about how do
946
00:45:06,305 --> 00:45:09,135
you look at the next couple of
years in your structure, what
947
00:45:09,135 --> 00:45:10,295
do you seek to accomplish?
948
00:45:11,065 --> 00:45:13,885
And you deliver that to your staff,
it really helps to give them a visual
949
00:45:13,885 --> 00:45:16,375
of, okay, we're all working together.
950
00:45:16,385 --> 00:45:17,705
We're working towards something.
951
00:45:18,405 --> 00:45:19,595
And it's not just a job.
952
00:45:20,105 --> 00:45:21,525
It's not just getting through it.
953
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,555
We're actually building something.
954
00:45:24,125 --> 00:45:26,515
And there's going to be
good days and bad days.
955
00:45:26,525 --> 00:45:28,195
There's going to be great days too.
956
00:45:28,775 --> 00:45:32,385
But amidst that, we have
to make sure that every
957
00:45:32,385 --> 00:45:35,525
day we revisit what we're
doing and we stay the course.
958
00:45:36,075 --> 00:45:37,988
And if we do that, yeah, we're going to
959
00:45:38,105 --> 00:45:41,385
look back a couple of years from
now and we're going to celebrate.
960
00:45:42,765 --> 00:45:43,615
But guess what?
961
00:45:43,785 --> 00:45:44,015
Then we'll
962
00:45:44,015 --> 00:45:49,315
start the next two years if we're lucky
and we get the organizations flourishing.
963
00:45:49,315 --> 00:45:49,825
I hope so.
964
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,790
Or sometimes it's a consulting assignment
and the assignment's up and it was great.
965
00:45:55,380 --> 00:45:56,860
And you move on to the next client.
966
00:45:57,130 --> 00:46:00,490
But either way, there has to
be an established, I would
967
00:46:00,490 --> 00:46:01,710
tell any leader that just,
968
00:46:02,330 --> 00:46:04,620
if you can put those things in
place and have that frame of
969
00:46:05,470 --> 00:46:07,430
mind, you're going to have that.
970
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,290
You'll get the respect from leadership.
971
00:46:10,300 --> 00:46:13,060
And then to your point, you'll
earn that trust every day and
972
00:46:13,060 --> 00:46:14,290
it'll continue to grow over time.
973
00:46:16,660 --> 00:46:19,820
Thomas: That's interesting because
as a contrast, I would say I have
974
00:46:19,820 --> 00:46:25,665
seen HR leaders go deep in on the
Kool-Aid of the function and saying
975
00:46:25,665 --> 00:46:29,360
you need X, you need this type of
policy, you need this kind of outcomes.
976
00:46:29,410 --> 00:46:29,804
You need this kind of outcomes.
977
00:46:29,804 --> 00:46:33,470
We need this kind of programming if
you want to be relevant and running
978
00:46:33,470 --> 00:46:39,820
a playbook that they're used to and
pushing that to the new stakeholder group
979
00:46:39,820 --> 00:46:41,970
that they're working with, in
this case, a new executive team.
980
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:43,680
And that's when you sometimes get
981
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,550
the in private conversations when
you're evaluating what's going on.
982
00:46:47,550 --> 00:46:49,950
You hear leadership say,
oh, that's an HR thing.
983
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:50,970
Don't worry about that.
984
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:52,800
We're not really doing
985
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:52,970
that.
986
00:46:52,970 --> 00:46:55,280
Or that's, yeah, that's just their thing.
987
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:56,520
It's not our thing.
988
00:46:56,860 --> 00:47:01,190
And this approach completely,
if applied, that would never,
989
00:47:01,220 --> 00:47:02,660
ever come into the picture.
990
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:06,660
And maybe going back to the budget
and the fight and the tension
991
00:47:06,750 --> 00:47:10,020
question, maybe that happens because
of that fundamental misalignment,
992
00:47:10,100 --> 00:47:10,260
right?
993
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:13,760
Am I trying to impose my discipline and
994
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,440
function on you, the org, or
trying to support and be a trusted
995
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,360
advisor to the org and bring the
996
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:20,760
expertise to enable that?
997
00:47:21,130 --> 00:47:21,260
Gene: Yeah.
998
00:47:21,260 --> 00:47:23,620
If you think of it really
more holistically, right?
999
00:47:24,350 --> 00:47:24,960
It's like being
1000
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:25,620
a doctor.
1001
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:29,110
If you asked me to come in and
give you my opinion after I
1002
00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:31,170
gave you a physical and I said,
1003
00:47:31,170 --> 00:47:32,630
look, generally you're okay.
1004
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,690
You could lose 15 pounds or you
need to run five miles a day.
1005
00:47:37,060 --> 00:47:39,050
I'm going to give you
advice that's in your best
1006
00:47:39,050 --> 00:47:39,530
interest.
1007
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,240
So now you have a choice to decide
what you want to do with that.
1008
00:47:44,580 --> 00:47:45,750
So if I was to sit here
1009
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:49,960
as an HR leader, even in this
organization, sure, people disagree.
1010
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,080
But I think the interesting thing
1011
00:47:52,220 --> 00:47:56,540
where I'm at in my career, I get to the
point where I expect them to disagree.
1012
00:47:56,605 --> 00:48:01,420
If I walked in here naively and said,
you need to buy my service because I
1013
00:48:01,430 --> 00:48:03,410
said so, first of all, that's nonsense.
1014
00:48:03,770 --> 00:48:03,810
edge on
1015
00:48:08,260 --> 00:48:11,590
that says, I'm the expert
and you need to listen to me.
1016
00:48:12,220 --> 00:48:15,630
I basically appeal to common
sense and in what's the best
1017
00:48:15,630 --> 00:48:19,530
interest of what their expectation
is for their organization, like
1018
00:48:19,530 --> 00:48:20,630
they're running the organization.
1019
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:23,480
So what's important to you
and what's really in the best
1020
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:24,670
interest of the organization.
1021
00:48:24,670 --> 00:48:29,030
So if I recommend a policy because
we have a problem with something,
1022
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:31,510
what's the big thing everybody's
worried about these days?
1023
00:48:31,510 --> 00:48:34,670
We have background checks and
drugs and things of these natures.
1024
00:48:34,690 --> 00:48:36,770
These are tough subjects, right?
1025
00:48:37,290 --> 00:48:37,510
We'll
1026
00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:38,620
do the research.
1027
00:48:39,130 --> 00:48:42,430
We'll provide basically a
common sense approach, but
1028
00:48:42,910 --> 00:48:43,900
you have to give them time to
1029
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:44,890
think and digest it.
1030
00:48:45,790 --> 00:48:49,840
But to your point, if we stop ramming
this stuff down in people's brains,
1031
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,860
just you need to, the language, you
must, you have to, it's mandatory.
1032
00:48:54,380 --> 00:48:55,500
I do that with employees.
1033
00:48:55,550 --> 00:48:57,020
See how far you get in emails.
1034
00:48:57,270 --> 00:49:01,090
Two people respond out of 200
because they just shut click.
1035
00:49:01,290 --> 00:49:05,390
I'm not listening to you, but that's why
even in my role, I still go to stores.
1036
00:49:05,950 --> 00:49:06,910
I still go on site.
1037
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:08,640
I still make sure that they see.
1038
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:08,770
me?
1039
00:49:08,770 --> 00:49:10,580
I'm visible because I
don't want to be a ghost.
1040
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:11,820
Who's that guy in HR?
1041
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:13,505
We heard we got a new guy.
1042
00:49:13,505 --> 00:49:14,080
Who's he?
1043
00:49:14,090 --> 00:49:17,510
So you have to work with the folks.
1044
00:49:17,590 --> 00:49:20,040
You make sure that they
understand that I'm a person.
1045
00:49:20,050 --> 00:49:20,980
I'm an employee too.
1046
00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:22,620
This stuff affects me.
1047
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,700
But yeah, I've learned
over many years that,
1048
00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:30,200
and my team knows that we have
to have a handbook because it's
1049
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:31,710
important to have a handbook.
1050
00:49:32,010 --> 00:49:33,380
It's part of what we need.
1051
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,020
If I go outside to a location
and beat them over the head
1052
00:49:37,020 --> 00:49:40,570
with it and start mandating
everything, the likelihood of the
1053
00:49:40,570 --> 00:49:43,020
success of it, rather than
understanding that it's an important
1054
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:46,830
document for their benefit in mind,
it's all about that understanding.
1055
00:49:47,070 --> 00:49:50,280
Look, it's not a perfect system
because you're always going to
1056
00:49:50,290 --> 00:49:55,130
have some leaders that, are,
they've either had, to your point,
1057
00:49:55,180 --> 00:49:59,930
they've either had a negative
experience with HR, where it's been
1058
00:49:59,930 --> 00:50:02,360
just a dictate, and they just see
1059
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:02,490
it.
1060
00:50:02,490 --> 00:50:04,950
They've had leaders that have
come in and said, you better
1061
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:07,470
or else, or they've had groups
1062
00:50:07,470 --> 00:50:10,450
that have just been laid down,
but it's just, they had really
1063
00:50:10,450 --> 00:50:12,890
no, they had no influence over
1064
00:50:12,890 --> 00:50:13,410
anything.
1065
00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:15,660
And so nobody knew who they were.
1066
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,560
When you see those things occurring
and you start to also work in
1067
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,310
organizations where you do start to
have some success, you'd find that,
1068
00:50:24,780 --> 00:50:26,560
again, one, they're employees too.
1069
00:50:27,210 --> 00:50:28,150
They're people too.
1070
00:50:28,690 --> 00:50:30,590
Yes, they have the title
and power and influence.
1071
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,010
But at the same time, they don't
want to make bad decisions either.
1072
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,960
So help them make better
1073
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,260
decisions, show them
that they can trust you.
1074
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,450
And then the conversation
shifts because it's not,
1075
00:50:42,460 --> 00:50:46,350
oh, like you said, HR is the
black hat or the hammer or all
1076
00:50:46,350 --> 00:50:47,670
these other silly things you hear
1077
00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:49,500
people say about Human Resources.
1078
00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:52,700
And if it weren't true, I wouldn't
be here four decades later.
1079
00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:56,080
I've been very fortunate to just work
with some tremendous leaders that just,
1080
00:50:57,260 --> 00:51:00,320
over the last several decades
have they figured it out.
1081
00:51:01,210 --> 00:51:04,160
They see how important
the employees really are.
1082
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,680
Have critical asset to the organization,
1083
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:08,250
can't do it without them.
1084
00:51:08,730 --> 00:51:11,760
So let's figure out a way to make
it a better experience for them.
1085
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:16,280
And Human Resources can be, like I said,
a critical business partner to that,
1086
00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:19,870
but you got to have leadership
that understands, that can deliver
1087
00:51:19,870 --> 00:51:21,700
that rather than just programs.
1088
00:51:24,090 --> 00:51:26,750
Thomas: Thank you for sharing
some of these nuggets from these
1089
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,660
four decades of experience, Gene.
1090
00:51:28,660 --> 00:51:32,470
It's been fascinating kind of talking
to you about high level trends and how
1091
00:51:32,650 --> 00:51:36,580
the function itself has changed over
this time and where you see it headed
1092
00:51:36,580 --> 00:51:41,530
and the center of excellence
concept and empire building to a
1093
00:51:41,530 --> 00:51:43,160
more integrated approach that seems
1094
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:43,820
to be winning the day.
1095
00:51:43,820 --> 00:51:46,250
And most of all, the posture.
1096
00:51:46,850 --> 00:51:48,620
The right relationship as an HR
1097
00:51:48,820 --> 00:51:53,380
leader to have with the executive
team, being that trusted advisor.
1098
00:51:53,410 --> 00:51:55,230
And there's nothing almost
1099
00:51:55,260 --> 00:51:56,240
more sacred than that.
1100
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:01,170
If you can get to that relationship,
a lot of these other questions
1101
00:52:01,170 --> 00:52:03,190
that folks worry themselves
1102
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,330
over, having a seat at the
table, getting this program or
1103
00:52:06,330 --> 00:52:08,380
that program or getting budget
1104
00:52:08,380 --> 00:52:12,160
for X, all of that starts to
take care of itself downstream.
1105
00:52:12,515 --> 00:52:14,290
from that alignment up front.
1106
00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:16,450
So thank you so much for this
1107
00:52:16,450 --> 00:52:19,730
as I'm sure HR leaders and practitioners
1108
00:52:19,730 --> 00:52:20,980
will find this useful
1109
00:52:21,020 --> 00:52:23,200
as they think about how they can apply
1110
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:24,910
to their own function and organizations
1111
00:52:24,910 --> 00:52:26,500
to future-proof their own orgs,
1112
00:52:26,500 --> 00:52:28,650
which is what we're all about here.
1113
00:52:28,990 --> 00:52:33,300
And so for everyone following
along back at home, this has been
1114
00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:35,570
another episode of Future-Proof HR.
1115
00:52:35,580 --> 00:52:39,330
Thank you so much once again,
Gene, for sharing your years
1116
00:52:39,330 --> 00:52:40,580
of experience and wisdom here.
1117
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:47,050
And best of luck out there as you keep
building great future-proof organizations.
1118
00:52:47,050 --> 00:52:47,440
Thank you.
1119
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:48,200
Bye now.
1120
00:52:48,330 --> 00:52:48,800
Gene: Thank you.
1121
00:52:51,083 --> 00:52:54,143
Thanks for joining us on this
episode of Future Proof HR.
1122
00:52:54,383 --> 00:52:56,993
If you like the discussion, make
sure you leave us a five star
1123
00:52:56,993 --> 00:52:59,873
review on the platform you're
listening to or watching us on.
1124
00:53:00,293 --> 00:53:03,233
Or share this with a friend or colleague
who may find value in the message.
1125
00:53:03,533 --> 00:53:08,483
See you next time as we keep our pulse on
how we can all thrive in the age on AI.
