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How HR Evolved: From Paperwork to Partnership
Episode 25 • 15th October 2025 • Future Proof HR • Thomas Kunjappu
00:00:00 00:53:50

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In this episode of the Future Proof HR Podcast, Thomas Kunjappu sits down with Gene Hallenbeck, Vice President of Human Resources at Dennis & Co Auto Group and longtime HR educator, to unpack how HR evolved from paperwork to partnership.

With over four decades of experience from rotary phones and filing cabinets to AI-driven analytics, Gene has seen HR transform from an administrative function into a strategic, trusted advisor to the business. He shares what it takes to modernize HR structures, earn executive trust, and lead with a service mindset that treats employees like customers.

Gene also discusses his hands-on approach to building lean, high-impact teams, his “100-day model” for transformation, and how HR can move from compliance to influence while staying aligned with the organization’s real goals.

Topics Discussed:

  • The evolution of HR from manual processes to a strategic partnership
  • How HR earned its seat at the table through trust and credibility
  • Building lean HR teams that stay aligned with business outcomes
  • The 100-day framework for rebuilding HR functions
  • Balancing technology, AI, and the human experience
  • The mindset shift from administration to a trusted advisor
  • Why every HR leader must “earn the seat” every day

Additional Resources:

Transcripts

Gene:

When I began, everything was, for lack of a better word, a manual process.

2

:

Down to the point

3

:

of my first job, there was a

rotary phone, a pencil, and a pad.

4

:

And there you go, there's your office.

5

:

But the bigger problem was that I saw

right from the get go, and this is

6

:

going back into the mid to late 80s.

7

:

There was nothing written down.

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:

Everything was through this

historical knowledge of the

9

:

incumbents that had survived for 20,

30 years because people didn't leave.

10

:

They stayed forever.

11

:

They keep telling us that it's all over.

12

:

For HR, the age of AI is upon

us, and that means HR should

13

:

be prepared to be decimated.

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:

We reject that message.

15

:

The future of HR won't be handed to us.

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:

Instead, it'll be defined by those

ready to experiment, adopt, and adapt.

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:

Future Proof HR invites these builders to

share what they're trying, how it's going,

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:

what they've learned, and what's next.

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:

We are committed to arming HR

with the AI insights to not

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:

just survive, but to thrive.

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:

Thomas: Hello and welcome to

the Future Proof HR Podcast.

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:

Where we explore how forward-thinking

HR leaders are preparing for disruption

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:

and redefining what it means to

lead people in a changing world.

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:

I'm your host, Thomas

Kunjappu, CEO of Cleary.

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:

Now today, we have with us Gene

Hallenbeck, the Vice President of Human

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:

Resources at Dennis & Co Auto Group,

overseeing all HR functions there.

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:

Now, these include, but are not limited

to talent management, employee relations,

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:

payroll benefits, administrations,

uniquely union contract relationships.

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:

And Gene brings extensive HR

expertise and a hands-on approach

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:

to offering comprehensive support

in all HR areas, including M&A,

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:

due diligence, and labor relations.

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:

I'd be very intrigued to jump into how

some of those things are changing with

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:

the world that we're moving into with AI.

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:

Gene is also an adjunct professor of

HRs in MBA programs and is constantly

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:

going back and forth between

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:

teaching and practice.

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So without any further ado,

welcome to the show, Gene.

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Gene: Thank you.

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:

Thank you.

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It's great to be here.

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Thomas: Okay.

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So Gene, without being too

cheeky, you've been in HR for

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decades from the rotary phone to

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:

digital dashboards.

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:

Tell me a little bit about

your mindset shifts across the

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:

decades.

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:

Gene: Yeah, I think I've been

very fortunate to be part of this

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:

practice for several decades.

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:

And when I began, everything was, for

lack of a better word, a manual process.

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:

Down to the point

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:

of my first job, yeah, there was a

rotary phone, a pencil, and a pad.

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:

And that was my, there you

go, there's your office.

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:

And the rest of it was done through

relationships and figuring it out.

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:

But the bigger problem was that I saw

right from the get go, and this is

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:

going back into the mid to late 80s.

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:

There was nothing written down.

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:

Everything was through this

historical knowledge of the

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:

incumbents that had survived for 20,

30 years because people didn't leave.

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:

They stayed forever.

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:

So there was this reliance

on the individual.

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:

So we didn't need to worry

if Bob was going to leave.

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We didn't worry that the information and

knowledge acquisition would disappear.

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So we just simply assumed

it would always be there.

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:

Nothing changed.

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And that's why it was a practice.

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:

It didn't grow for quite some time

because there wasn't really this need to.

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:

And then we hit the 90s and there

was a lot of political climate

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shifts in presidential concerns and

Supreme Court justices and so forth.

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:

And all of a sudden, HR got thrust

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:

to the forefront of compliance

and we better do all these things

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or we're all going to wind up,

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the company's going to be in trouble.

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So there was this incredible boom.

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:

It was like a gold rush in,

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we better punch up the HR function

because it went from sort of someone doing

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benefits enrollments to now we have to

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:

understand how to do harassment training

and FMLA and all these other things.

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:

And when the real

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:

trigger point was, believe it or not,

was the:

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:

And all of a sudden, there is now

this sort of more larger focus

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:

where it was not just what happened

on day one in your orientation.

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It was things that impacted everyone

in the company, federal laws.

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:

And once that took place, we

had to start to figure out, how

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:

do we do this for 2,000 people?

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:

How do we do this for 4,000 people?

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:

Where before, it was really

more of a homegrown solution.

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:

And there was an incumbent

that was doing it for 30 years.

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:

And it was all paper and pencil.

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So lots of record keeping, lots of

files, but really no plan for the future.

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Just let's do it today.

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It's in the cabinet somewhere.

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And then when the shift happened,

that really was the beginning of

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all of a sudden HR having, people

noticed that we were in the building.

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:

Through the years, it started evolving

more into how do we get a seat at the

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table and become a stakeholder, which

really didn't take place until probably

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after like in the early 2000s, when

HR got elevated more into the C-suite

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group and saw it as a vital partner.

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:

But yeah, from the beginning,

it was really just,

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it was not seen as a business partner.

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It was seen more as an

administrative back office function.

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Thomas: So that first shift,

maybe this is illuminating for

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me because I've heard of this,

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that shift from the personnel

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department into being actually

even the moniker of HR, which for

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a lot of the younger folks, that

history might be even missing.

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:

But it sounds like there's a

big mindset shift as well, both

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in terms of what stakeholders

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as well as employees

were starting to expect.

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of HR in that late 80s, early

90s, beyond just record keeping.

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But then you said, and then there's

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:

another sort of evolution in the

:

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about having, being an equal

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stakeholder

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at the executive table.

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And you also mentioned paper and pencil.

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Obviously that's

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shifted, right?

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No one does record in any industry

does record keeping that way.

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But what else have been the key

shifts that you've seen since

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the 2000s, as we go into today?

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Gene: I think the key shift is that

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the former HR leaders really were wedded

to building these sort of empires.

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We're going to build these gargantuan HR

functions that have 27 people in them.

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When everybody had a silo,

there were six people in talent,

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:

seven people in employment.

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:

And I saw this as really,

it was extremely antiquated.

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:

Because one, they didn't

talk to each other.

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:

So you'd go to a meeting, but there was

47 people in the room, but no one constant

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:

stream of thought, like strategically, how

are we all rowing in the same direction?

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:

all rowing in the same direction.

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:

So they were creating these sort of

silos, which is in the, got built in

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:

the 2000s, where all of a sudden let's

build these sort of, I hate the term,

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I think centers of excellence

for lack of a better word.

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And everybody got their own cut at this.

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:

That's my slice.

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That's your slice.

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And so for a time there, we got

trapped and sucked into this

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:

sort of model where they built these

tremendously large HR functions.

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:

So we go from

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the rotary phone, there's three

people hanging around doing admin,

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:

and now you've got 30 people

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in the room and a whole lot of

initiatives that everybody started.

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:

It was a real boomtown for

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vendors at that time and nothing

related to software digital work.

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:

It was really just a lot of more employee

initiatives, like a lot of surveys,

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:

a lot of let's get everybody together

on retreats and born of that.

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:

So we were doing a lot of this

scaled up, a lot of expensive,

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:

high scaled initiatives.

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:

The problem that happened really by

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:

2008 is where it shifted again

because we had the housing crisis.

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:

All of that sort of went away

because we didn't know if we

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:

were going to be in business.

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:

Everybody got downsized

and everything changed.

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And it was interesting from that,

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:

as we started to rebuild again,

we realized, okay, maybe we can

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:

consolidate and start looking for

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people who are more

subject matter experts.

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:

Because there were enough people

in the field at that time,

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after 20 years, where they were

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multi-talented, they had diverse

backgrounds, myself included.

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And we were able to start building these

more really core think tanks, where

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we could come together strategically.

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And I needed eight people, not 18.

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And we were able to really start

thinking more strategically.

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eight people, not 18.

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And we were able to really start

thinking more strategically.

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:

And right around that time

is where I saw leaders in my

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:

world, especially in the auto

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business and other friends that

I had started to really invite

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HR to come to the table as

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we rebuilt the economy.

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As we, we had to come back and

say, okay, how do we come back from

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this because thousands of people

lost their jobs, homes, and so forth.

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So if we're going to rebuild

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it, what does it look like?

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So that was another attempt at when,

okay, let's take another attempt at this.

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And those structures never came back.

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Those large, very complex

structures went away.

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And then those of us that were

now in the sort of driver's seat

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now got the opportunity to say,

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okay, let's take a look at how this really

probably would work a little bit better.

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And we haven't looked back for

the last, I'd say, 18 years.

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:

The models I've been applying,

including when I teach, really,

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I talk about my mantra is,

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as a leader, you've got

to be connecting the dots.

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Your job is to take it from the

point of hire to the point of

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termination.

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I always say that employees, as

employees, we have two things in common.

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We work in the same company.

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We have two things in common.

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We all have a hire date and we

all have a termination date.

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Now, it might be 20 years apart,

but what happens in between?

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And that experience is up to us.

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We have to build it.

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We have to make sure it works.

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It's consistent for everybody,

regardless of our tenure.

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And if we can do that on a frequent basis,

using all the disciplines we have at our

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disposal, we've delivered on the promise.

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We've given the organization what

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it needs.

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But when I look back on looking

at your outline and getting

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ready for this, it's been

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funny to see how decades ago, we

weren't even talking to each other.

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And these disciplines were just

autonomous and self-directed.

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You handle

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hiring, you handle this, you handle

benefits, you never connected the dots.

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So I didn't know

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what benefits was doing.

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I didn't know what payroll did.

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So there was a real disconnect for the

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employee.

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Cause it was like, it's like calling a

department store when you're looking for

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a product and you get

transferred nine times.

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There was a lot of that.

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And now with technology

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and sophisticated technology, we

can bring tools in to really help

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make the employee a consumer.

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They're our customer.

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And this is a service

organization that I run, I build.

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So I'm no different than if

you came and had your car fixed

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at a dealership and you expected to

leave there with your car fixed and

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for a fair price, you're an employee,

you should expect the same from me.

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that you get hired.

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If you have questions, your experience

through my function should be the same.

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And if I haven't done

that, then of course,

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I've not delivered on my brand promise in

terms of the HR functions that I build.

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And I train my staff in I want

the employee to be satisfied

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but also as a customer of us.

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And if we ever loose sight of that,

whatever HR person you'll ever speak to,

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if that's not part of their

narrative, then in my opinion,

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that's not, they need to do it

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in a different way.

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Thomas: That's your core customer.

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That's who you're serving.

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And you need to keep

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that front of mind, or at least in

the background to any particular

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initiative that you have in

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place.

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So stretch.

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the story about the history a

little bit digging a little bit

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further because I'm curious.

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So it sounds like really in the

:

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when you saw the explosion of what's

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called centers of excellence and

really in-depth silos developing

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and almost empires within an HR

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department, which all came

crashing down with the rest of the

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economy and the overall headcount

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plan in general for most companies.

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And then it got rebuilt in the 2010s

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with, more integrated functions.

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And yet I have seen large

talent acquisition groups and

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talent management and L&D.

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And then you start to add in things

like DEI and you can add B into that

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as another lever and expand it a bit.

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And especially going into the COVID era

with basically more being on the plate of

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the HR team, remote policies, vaccination

policies, other types of governance,

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things that are coming into play.

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So how did that evolve?

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Because clearly there's been pretty

big shifts pre-COVID and post-COVID

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in a lot of organizations and at

least in what HR is expected of.

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Gene: Yeah.

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I think we saw in the last five

years when COVID happened and

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post COVID.

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Yeah.

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I think right now, some of the HR leaders,

you got a little bit of a struggle

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here because organizations

I think are stuck.

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Look at from HR, I also

talk about generational

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issues such that right now you have

in the, we have in the workforce

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five generations still with us from

senior citizens all the way up to

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Gen Z and everybody in between.

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And we're trying to

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accommodate and develop policies around

work-life balance, remote work, hybrids.

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So yeah, HR is now

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being challenged with, okay, how

do we create high engagement?

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It's the number one question.

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How do I create a highly

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engaged workforce to increase retention?

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I also attract people to come work here.

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We get on the

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phone and we talk to candidates.

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It's the first question they ask.

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Do I have to be there every day?

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Do I have to work eight hours a day?

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What are the hours?

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It's this and this.

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Oh, are you flexible?

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So these things are now new in our

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space and we're being challenged with

handbook policies, post-COVID scenarios.

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Like you said,

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people still not ready to come

back, companies making decisions

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where you have to come back.

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And then you have people in terms of just

their attitude about working full-time

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or in terms of just working in general.

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We've seen our turnover just in all.

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And when I talk to even people

with students, it's a mixed bag.

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I haven't seen this, of course,

in my tenure, in my career,

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because this is something new

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that kind of showed up a few

years ago where people are really

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questioning, what do I really

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need to be there if I'm highly

productive, does it matter if I'm

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sitting in my office or sitting in

my house or remote somewhere else?

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And what are policies

that could support that?

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Will we have the opportunity to, is

the company flexible, even with hours?

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of work and even time off.

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Why do we have PTO policies?

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Why isn't it more flexible?

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Take off when I need.

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I work when I work 12 hours a day.

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Why do I have to be sitting

here eight hours a day?

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So we get asked those questions

frequently, but I hear it

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more from candidates than I

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hear it from employees because

the ones we've hired seem to be

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okay with the scenario that we

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offer them.

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But I do get it a lot from candidates.

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Thomas: And you're talking specifically

about the new generation of candidates.

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Yeah, we see.

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Yeah.

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Gene: Yeah.

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I would say if I was, I'd say people

that are in the workforce longer may

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be accustomed to, they've adapted to

the different needs or requirements.

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Right.

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And those that are entering the workforce

or relatively new to the workforce

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have seen others getting or receiving

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more flexibility or organizations

being more flexible.

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These are very common

questions that we get asked.

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It's usually comes up as the

first or second thing they ask.

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And we've disqualified many as a result

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of that.

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only want to work X hours,

scenario, time, and so forth.

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And I respect it.

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people have a right to do whatever

they feel is right for them.

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The hard point is, when you have a

CEO or C-suite saying, I want highly

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engaged, highly productive,

available, it's okay.

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So you have this long list

over here and I'm trying

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:

to match that up.

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Some days feel like you're

a hundred miles apart.

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I respect, of course,

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I work for C-suite we want to make

sure we give them what they need.

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But my talent team is challenged

with, feel like sometimes we're

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on the back of a fishing boat and

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you got a line in the water and

you feel like you got a hook, you

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got a bite, and then they didn't,

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nope, lost it.

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Some days just feel like that.

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But there is a shift in this.

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And I think companies

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and organizations in the future, I think

this is going to have to be a very strong,

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very important strategic discussion

that they're going to need to have.

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Because I also see everybody

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digging in.

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Recently, you can see on the internet,

everybody's, heck no, they got to come

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back.

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We require that they come back.

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Meanwhile, I see commercial

real estate for sale signs

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everywhere.

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Because is

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that really needed?

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I can say this after all these years.

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Some people, we can have productive

individuals, not have to sit

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somewhere per se, because it's

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somebody's idea of productivity.

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What really is going to

be the most important?

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I'm in retail, so it's a

little bit different for me.

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I can't sell cars from home per

se or service cars from my house.

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So it is a little bit different

because I'm in a retail setting.

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But in terms of traditional other settings

like accounting or other office functions,

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I think there's a lot of opportunity for

discussion around that topic the future,

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especially with AI and other tools.

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Thomas: Yeah.

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So then if you're looking

forward a little bit with this,

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we talk about how the mindset

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has maybe shifted for the

function over the decades.

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And in that time, you've built and rebuilt

multiple HR functions from the ground

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up or rebuilt down to the studs and back

up based on what's relevant at the time.

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So what's different about that today,

if you had to, if at all, what would

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:

be different about your mindset if

you're trying to build or rebuild

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an HR function from the ground up?

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Gene: What I always look for in my

recent work, I always look at, first,

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:

because I've also done consulting, I

sit with the senior leaders and discuss,

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:

get their vision in terms of really

where they want to ultimately be in

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terms of their organization's outcome.

383

:

What's your goal?

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Growth, profitability, acquisitions.

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:

And we have that structure

related to, okay, so I know

386

:

from a business standpoint,

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where you're headed.

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:

And to your point about building it

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:

different, years ago, it was,

we need a recruiting department.

390

:

We need an employment group.

391

:

These are

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:

the main things we want to focus on.

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:

What's different now is

in the program I teach in,

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it's an MBA program.

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:

Future leaders of HR will

have advanced degrees, MBAs.

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:

Years ago,

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:

we thought it was law degrees,

but that didn't happen.

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:

So now it's MBAs.

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And I teach them.

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:

Those are the ones I teach.

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:

And I tell them, I said,

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:

what I'm so excited about, and the fact

that you're doing this is, to your point,

403

:

building these structures with

people with strong business acumen,

404

:

strong business skills.

405

:

It wasn't in any HR program.

406

:

HR programs didn't exist 30 years ago.

407

:

Now they do.

408

:

There's a lot of them, but are we

really teaching the business skills,

409

:

financial analysis, data analysis,

general accounting, so forth, in

410

:

combination of the HR skills in terms

411

:

of the HR disciplines?

412

:

But here's the thing.

413

:

If I sit in a union

negotiation, can you do the

414

:

analytics and financials?

415

:

Union's going to hand them to you.

416

:

Do you know them?

417

:

Sit in a senior C-suite meeting.

418

:

They're going to pull out the financials

for the business, and they're going to ask

419

:

you, what do you think we should do here?

420

:

You're the HR leader.

421

:

What are you going to say?

422

:

I don't know.

423

:

So we have to build it now.

424

:

It's aligned with the business.

425

:

So it becomes almost a companion

piece to COO and the CEO.

426

:

So you learn the operation,

you learn the business.

427

:

And then now we say, okay, look, this

428

:

is what we have to accomplish

for the business on the HR side.

429

:

From a talent standpoint, from a

430

:

compliance standpoint, the kinds

of leaders we want to bring into.

431

:

And the biggest piece,

432

:

and you mentioned it before, what

kind of employee development and

433

:

training do we want to do to get

434

:

people up to that level?

435

:

Because I know where the business is

going, so I got to get the people in

436

:

the organization up there.

437

:

Now, this was not asked of HR in the past.

438

:

It was give me a handbook,

make sure I don't get sued.

439

:

And we thought, 25 years ago,

you're like, wow, that's great work.

440

:

Let's do it.

441

:

And we all did it.

442

:

And it was great.

443

:

But having been in the business now

for this period of time, I've got

444

:

really to watch a front row seat to

the evolution of all of this business.

445

:

to see that the biggest transition

that I've seen to any of this is

446

:

that the business invited us in.

447

:

The door got open, the invitation

happened, and we showed up.

448

:

And organizations that were

449

:

smarter ahead of the curve did it

probably about 10, 15 years ago.

450

:

So they've already incorporated

451

:

CHROs and there's VP of HR.

452

:

And most of these are people that

have about 20, 25 years experience.

453

:

They've been doing it.

454

:

They've been in the trench.

455

:

So you've got this really sweet

spot that some organizations have

456

:

just really hooked into while

other organizations are still, I

457

:

think, haven't adapted to that.

458

:

So there's still, I think, way too much.

459

:

I think one of your questions,

they're still stuck in this

460

:

administrative transactional phase.

461

:

So it's really about making

sure we run payroll and we have

462

:

all the compliance stuff done,

463

:

which is really very important.

464

:

But in terms of what the outcome and

the expectation is, it's HR aligned

465

:

with C-suite on the business outcomes.

466

:

And how can you help me to get

there as a critical partnership?

467

:

Thomas: So help me get this

straight, Gene, because I'm with

468

:

you on the idea, of course, that

469

:

you're starting with the C-suite

stakeholders and ensuring

470

:

that you're aligned with their

471

:

vision for the business

and how you can help.

472

:

And then you're getting into

all the different tools.

473

:

So number one, you're putting out,

474

:

okay, the administrative stuff,

475

:

it doesn't need to be mentioned,

476

:

but obviously you need to

make sure payroll is running

477

:

and benefits programs are set,

478

:

but that's part of the remit.

479

:

But then if you're aligning to the

business, you need to get talent.

480

:

And so there's a talent acquisition arm.

481

:

You just mentioned how important

reskilling and upskilling is

482

:

and learning and development,

483

:

having that in place and

career ladders and such,

484

:

as well as just make sure

there's the right programs in

485

:

place so that you're driving

486

:

retention with that customer.

487

:

But when I put all that together,

it sure feels we're just talking

488

:

about, okay, that's a pretty

sizable HR department and team and

489

:

sub-departments to make sure all

490

:

those happens.

491

:

It sounds like to me, benefits and

payroll and talent acquisition,

492

:

talent development, L&D, arguably

all these like centers of excellence.

493

:

So if there's all

494

:

this demand, when there's the

proper alignment and you've

495

:

gotten the invitation to

496

:

the table, there's a demand for all

this to happen from the HR leader.

497

:

How does that sit with your

498

:

previous comment, which says that,

but in the today's world or going

499

:

forward, it's there's not going to be

as much, it's not going to be as big a

500

:

function to enable all of the things when

in reality, more is being asked of us.

501

:

Gene: It's a good point.

502

:

So I think it's two things.

503

:

I think one, you have to basically

look at the size of the organization.

504

:

So I'm not going to say that if

you work with an organization

505

:

with 10,000 people, you would

506

:

have two HR people that

wouldn't, it wouldn't.

507

:

So it really comes down

to being what we scale.

508

:

If I'm in an organization with

a thousand people, I might

509

:

need five or six individuals.

510

:

The other thing, and this is

just, it's my opinion, but I

511

:

I seek out people that are incredibly good

at what they do, that sit in my HR group.

512

:

So I will wait and I will handpick

the people that I can get.

513

:

Subject matter experts and

514

:

people that are incredibly talented.

515

:

I do not look for people that

are, they know a thousand, a

516

:

hundred things in HR and they,

517

:

I can do all this stuff.

518

:

I'm not looking for that.

519

:

What I'm saying is I'm seeing

more of a trade to where people,

520

:

I always say, and I teach that

I become a subject matter expert

521

:

in a couple of different subjects

522

:

related to the discipline

so that I can use people.

523

:

I have a background in union negotiations,

524

:

collective bargaining.

525

:

I have degrees in education, and

I also have my HR credentials.

526

:

I might work on several

different things a day, but so

527

:

do the people on my staff.

528

:

So they're all given key elements of

what's required in the organization.

529

:

And I have right now, seven people

that work with me on my team.

530

:

When I got here, there were three

531

:

I've added to staff.

532

:

So we scale based on what the

demand is, but I don't need 11.

533

:

Because some of the

stuff becomes redundant.

534

:

And then some of the questions

I know that you may ask is, how

535

:

do we get the other work done?

536

:

I use vendors.

537

:

I use my payroll system.

538

:

I use my HRS system.

539

:

I leverage other tools that

I purchase from vendors.

540

:

And then through leveraging these

tools, much of that's being done.

541

:

The heavy lifting is

542

:

done by them.

543

:

And we're here as the business

partner handling things day to day.

544

:

I agree with

545

:

you that it could sound like I

need a sizable number of people,

546

:

but I've found that at the

547

:

current time, there is a very good

amount of experienced HR talent

548

:

in the marketplace that can do a

multitude of things incredibly well.

549

:

And they're multifaceted.

550

:

And I have those people working for me

and I've handpicked them because I have

551

:

loaded the deck before, but unfortunately

I've found that you have some

552

:

people that are highly

productive and some that are not.

553

:

I don't like to overstaff and

then I have deal with that later.

554

:

It's just, it's my style.

555

:

But it's a very good

question that you asked.

556

:

So I appreciate that.

557

:

Thomas: Yeah.

558

:

So it sounds like it's a combination of

the right people who are, there's a lot of

559

:

hyphenated roles and a lot of

collaborative efforts across them as well.

560

:

On top of that,

561

:

combined with vendors, tooling,

cutting edge processes so that

562

:

team can achieve even more faster.

563

:

But then when you say all that,

let's talk, let's follow the

564

:

talent question a little bit

565

:

more deeply, specifically HR talent,

especially you're teaching MBA grads

566

:

who are going to, especially if

they're doing an HR specialization,

567

:

they're looking to get into HR roles.

568

:

And yet with this kind of strategy

that's being expressed around

569

:

a leaner function with more

570

:

experience, what is the foot

in the door in the future?

571

:

How do you get into HR?

572

:

Or are you telling your students, don't

do something else first, then come back?

573

:

to this later.

574

:

Gene: No, there's always going

to be a need for, look, there's

575

:

three layers that we have

576

:

to achieve, right?

577

:

We have an administrative

layer, a tactical layer, and

578

:

we have a strategic layer.

579

:

I'm not expecting a student to

come out of college and be running.

580

:

They're going to be in the strategy

581

:

function.

582

:

They're not going to be

sitting, but they're always

583

:

going to be administrative work

584

:

that needs to get done.

585

:

All of us had to make the phone

calls, make the copies, sit in

586

:

the trenches, arrange meetings.

587

:

So there is still, I have two

administrators here working with me.

588

:

Both of them are juniors,

right from college.

589

:

And they are learning the business.

590

:

They're learning the function.

591

:

So I tell my students, depending

on where they're at, some

592

:

come to an MBA program already

593

:

have experience, a little bit different.

594

:

So if I have somebody that

has no experience, they'll

595

:

typically ask me where to begin.

596

:

And I said, look, there's the two

areas I've seen throughout my career.

597

:

It's been, including myself, is

either you get a position as an

598

:

HR coordinator, administrator.

599

:

You're basically in here

doing work to assist from an

600

:

administrative level, which is like

601

:

your first gate.

602

:

Or number two, on the talent side, lots

of organizations seem to like to hire

603

:

junior recruiters or have people come

604

:

in and really help out with

some of the office positions or

605

:

there might be general staff and

606

:

they're teaching them

how to, that's a gate.

607

:

One of the organizations

I was with for a while,

608

:

about seven or eight years ago, they were

really big on going to the schools and

609

:

pulling students out, college grads

to teach them to be junior recruiters.

610

:

And that was their entrance

611

:

into that HR world.

612

:

And I started as a

recruiter, was my first job.

613

:

That's how I got my sort of foot

614

:

in the door.

615

:

We do talk about that a

lot when I'm lecturing.

616

:

I do say that the good news

is there's always opportunity.

617

:

I said, but if you're shooting for

like you want to become a manager

618

:

first, or you have some sort

619

:

of someone's told you it's,

I try to set expectations so

620

:

I can also help them because

621

:

a lot of students will always

will reach out to me and review

622

:

resumes, give them coaching,

623

:

talk to them.

624

:

It's part of what I do.

625

:

And they found that's

626

:

very helpful because I'll share

with them sort of what to expect,

627

:

especially if you're talking with

628

:

organizations and when they're

giving you input about what they're

629

:

looking for so that you're not

630

:

asking for a six-figure salary

and they want an administrator.

631

:

So it helps them.

632

:

And many of them

633

:

have gone on to get jobs and

they seem to be doing well.

634

:

So I'm always pleased to hear that.

635

:

Thomas: Projecting ahead, because I like

your model of the three layers, right?

636

:

Almost administrative,

tactical, strategic.

637

:

Is it possible that the

administrative and tactical layers

638

:

are going to get more intertwined?

639

:

And even in a beginner

role, generally speaking.

640

:

Because there's more and more powerful

641

:

tools that can make a lot of the

administrative efforts move towards

642

:

the background, where even you're out

of an internship, your first role,

643

:

you're expected to do more than what

644

:

someone was doing earlier.

645

:

or a decade ago.

646

:

Gene: Yeah, I think that's

definitely a great way to look at it.

647

:

We still see that it's here.

648

:

We're still seeing.

649

:

I dealt with a vendor.

650

:

I just got rid of something.

651

:

I went to using AI, got rid

of a, brought in another tool

652

:

because I had a vendor that

653

:

only accepted termination paperwork

for a benefit we had on paper.

654

:

Like you

655

:

had to scan and send it.

656

:

And I said, we terminate so

many people a week, X now.

657

:

And they're like, we only want paper.

658

:

And I'm like, oh, you

have a fax machine too?

659

:

I'm like, what are we?

660

:

So we're still dealing with and

catching, this is catching up to itself.

661

:

But I agree with you.

662

:

The only caveat I would put in

there where I think there's a

663

:

little bit of still a disconnect

664

:

is that the complexity of HR, one of the

things that has changed over the last

665

:

couple of decades is that, and I say

this to all of my students and my team.

666

:

The work we're doing is morphing to

your point, but some of the stuff

667

:

is becoming extremely complex.

668

:

So it's not getting easier in

the sense that, oh, if we do

669

:

this, everything will be fine.

670

:

So if you have people that

are a little more junior,

671

:

they could get swept up into things that

are just, they're in over their head,

672

:

or they don't understand completely.

673

:

So it's convenient, but at the same time,

674

:

you got to be careful that

you don't realize that you now

675

:

missed a couple steps or caused a

676

:

different compliance issue.

677

:

So I think it's, I'm glad

or I'm happy what you're

678

:

saying.

679

:

It is happening.

680

:

It's just that I don't want to see

people put into situations too early

681

:

because without proper guidance or

someone mentoring them or watching them,

682

:

it could be a bad outcome for them.

683

:

And of course, we're always here

to protect the organization.

684

:

So I think there's still a

little of, there's a little

685

:

bit of a disconnect there.

686

:

And don't get me wrong,

687

:

I've had plenty of people I've

spoken to over the last couple of

688

:

years, unfortunately, have been put

689

:

into situations that

are way over their head.

690

:

And that's not a good outcome either.

691

:

And we don't

692

:

want to have people just ultimately then

get so turned off that they run away

693

:

from the field and they never come back.

694

:

They've got a bad taste in their mouth.

695

:

So I agree with you that, yeah,

ultimately it will morph maybe in

696

:

a few years, a little more, more

technology, a little more time.

697

:

And to be answered just

slightly different,

698

:

the schools catch up with this as

well, because they start introducing

699

:

and talking about this more

700

:

in the coursework and that you

have more, you might have more

701

:

progressive individuals out in

702

:

front of this.

703

:

Yes.

704

:

think soon that will be occurring,

but I haven't seen it shift as of yet,

705

:

just yet.

706

:

Thomas: Quite yet.

707

:

Okay.

708

:

So let me ask one more, kind of an

evergreen question about talent before

709

:

we go into your strategy of a revamp.

710

:

What's the or how do you assess

if someone has the mindset or

711

:

disposition to get into modern HR?

712

:

Gene: How do I assess?

713

:

I look at a couple of different things.

714

:

One, I ask them, I always ask,

715

:

My first question is really what

do they know about the field?

716

:

What have they heard or learned?

717

:

And where'd they get that from?

718

:

I found that many people have family

members that have been in human resources,

719

:

whether it's a mom or a dad, or I

have children, they've seen me do it

720

:

about that.

721

:

I don't know if you want to, but I

look for, really look at someone's,

722

:

how they critically think and also

723

:

how they view situations

and how they solve problems.

724

:

Because that to me is one of the core

725

:

skills that I look for anytime I hire

somebody is their ability to assess

726

:

or critically think about what's

727

:

occurring.

728

:

Come back to me with what, and how are you

going to, how are you going to solve this

729

:

problem?

730

:

Come back to me with a solution.

731

:

Many times I find people,

732

:

it's very surfacy.

733

:

There's not a lot of depth, but

based on what I told you a moment

734

:

ago, the complexity of what

735

:

we're up against

nowadays, it's increasing.

736

:

I need to know that someone has

the ability to take a breath,

737

:

understand what's occurring,

738

:

digest it, and then come back and say,

based on what I see, here's what I think,

739

:

and would be a good way to approach this.

740

:

And there's some viable opportunities.

741

:

Let me share those with you.

742

:

Rather than sometimes

they're reacting or there's

743

:

just really not a lot of insight.

744

:

Thomas: Or like it belies a

lack of curiosity potentially.

745

:

So let me ask you,

746

:

going back to away from the professorial

and talent pipeline side of things.

747

:

From a leadership perspective, as

a CHRO, if we're talking to a CHRO

748

:

who is new at a new company and is

looking to get going, or it feels

749

:

like they're at a crossroads because

750

:

the business is at a crossroads and

they need to reset their function.

751

:

You've told me earlier about

752

:

your little bit of a tried and

true approach that you have, right?

753

:

As when you go in to a new

organization with your war room,

754

:

the C-suite buy-in and the war room,

755

:

and maybe, I don't know,

is it 90 days, 100 days?

756

:

But could you tell us a little

bit more about your approach

757

:

there when you're trying to

re-baseline a whole organization?

758

:

Yeah.

759

:

Gene: Usually what I do is

I go in and I always meet.

760

:

One of the things that I've

always done, especially with CROs,

761

:

CEOs, COOs,

762

:

is when I meet with them, the

first thing I'll always tell

763

:

them is that I'm not an employee.

764

:

I'm basically, I'm here to help.

765

:

My job is to help you do your job

better through the services we

766

:

can provide.

767

:

In order to do that, I need

to know a couple of things.

768

:

We sit down, I get their

strategy, the vision,

769

:

and then I tell them behind

me, I use flip charts.

770

:

I'm a big fan of my flip charts.

771

:

And I tell them, look,

we're going to chunk this.

772

:

And I said, you're going to

see a couple of things happen.

773

:

One, I'm always going to show you progress

774

:

so that you know that anything

775

:

that we've agreed to, which are outlines

we develop right from that meeting.

776

:

And I'll give

777

:

them a hundred day update.

778

:

And then I chart the hundred days

and my staff is part of that.

779

:

They know exactly what they need

to do in that first hundred days.

780

:

Now, all kidding,

781

:

this assignment here, next week

is my second hundred day block

782

:

in this assignment I'm in now.

783

:

block in this assignment I'm in now.

784

:

And we have achieved actually more than

we have promised and we're delivering on.

785

:

But I basically tell the C-suite that I

see my role as an internal consultant.

786

:

I see my team as an add value

and that we basically will always

787

:

give you a list of things or items

788

:

that we're fixing or addressing

789

:

or rebuilding and every

step you're involved.

790

:

So you can give us feedback.

791

:

You can give us input.

792

:

You could redirect us.

793

:

But at the same time, I'm always

going to show you how it's

794

:

connected back to what you're

795

:

trying to do.

796

:

So there's never really a

disconnect of why would you do that?

797

:

So when one of your questions about

budgets or how do you ask for more

798

:

money or there isn't really an ask.

799

:

This is really needed in order

for me to do this, which we

800

:

agreed to when we started.

801

:

office.

802

:

These are just a few examples, but I

will wallpaper this room and other rooms.

803

:

And we take those charts

and we go from room to room.

804

:

And when I do meetings, I bring

them in with me and people

805

:

chuckle.

806

:

They're like, what's this guy

doing with the flip charts?

807

:

But I'll always say to them,

808

:

this is that flip chart.

809

:

Yeah, it's the worm.

810

:

And I said, but they're

on the door on the outside

811

:

of the office too.

812

:

But the idea is that it's always with us.

813

:

It's always in front of us.

814

:

We never lose sight of it

because you can have a thousand

815

:

emails and never see it again.

816

:

Or I can have a flip chart

staring at me in my face.

817

:

There's five of them in front of me

on the wall adjacent to this desk.

818

:

And these are things that I

have to do over the next 30 days

819

:

as part of the next block of a hundred.

820

:

But I take from that and then provide

bi-weekly updates to the C-suite.

821

:

And from that, in the last six

months, I've been able to ask for

822

:

additional tools, resources, staff.

823

:

But it's never been the stop and start.

824

:

It's been, here was the plan at

the beginning, and we're on course.

825

:

that I'm asking of you is

part of the original plan.

826

:

And this is just, I'm

providing you an update.

827

:

People say, okay.

828

:

And sometimes there's a pushback or

questions, but we're always able to

829

:

refer it back to where we started with

a reference that we're here to help.

830

:

We're here to basically help

831

:

you achieve the goals that you want.

832

:

But I'll also say there's a

little bit of a trap door here

833

:

you got to be careful about.

834

:

I'll also tell them what I can't do.

835

:

And I think that's a trap door for some HR

functions where it's really nice to get.

836

:

It's like a deli counter.

837

:

It's really great to get all the orders.

838

:

Oh, yeah, sure.

839

:

300 sandwiches.

840

:

No problem.

841

:

And then I can only make 100.

842

:

And now we've let, we've

really dropped the ball.

843

:

We look terrible

844

:

in the eyes of the senior leadership.

845

:

So we don't, my staff knows,

we don't over promise,

846

:

never.

847

:

And number two, if we don't

know what it is or how to do it.

848

:

We just, we'll be transparent

849

:

because it's our worst day.

850

:

And it's a really a bad look to say,

oh, sure, we can do that because

851

:

somebody brought it to our attention.

852

:

And it's just not in our bandwidth.

853

:

It's just not in our – it

doesn't belong here.

854

:

And I think that's sometimes in

organizations we all want to get credit

855

:

or we want to look like we're doing a

great job, but the outcome could backfire.

856

:

So as part of my plan, I'm always

revisiting my charts, my original plan,

857

:

which was four pages when I started.

858

:

It was four sheets on a PowerPoint.

859

:

It was four things.

860

:

Here's the four things I can do for you.

861

:

And all of that has been accomplished.

862

:

And now we have a plan for each

hundred days and stay with that.

863

:

I did tell them when I started,

because my orientation to this, I said,

864

:

it's going to take about two years.

865

:

I said, so if you're willing to go with

me for this journey, I need two years.

866

:

I said, in two years, we'll revisit.

867

:

Not that we won't talk for two

years, but you have to give me

868

:

time.

869

:

Not 10, but two is a good number.

870

:

And we're about seven months

in and we're on track.

871

:

And in the past, when I've done

this with other structures,

872

:

that's how we've achieved.

873

:

We've made that progress.

874

:

We've made, we've grown,

we've added the resources.

875

:

We built the structure,

876

:

got the vendors we needed,

law firms included.

877

:

And all these things came together.

878

:

And I've had my staff say to

me, man, I look back, I can't

879

:

believe like this all happened.

880

:

And I'm like, it's by

design, not by accident.

881

:

And I said, you had an

organization that trusted in us.

882

:

And there's a lot of

trust in the sense that,

883

:

but as long as we deliver

on what we said we would do

884

:

and it's a quality product,

885

:

there's really no reason for them to

say, don't continue or don't do any more.

886

:

Thomas: But you're buying that, or not

buying, you're gaining that trust upfront,

887

:

including in the interview process

888

:

by aligning on what you can and cannot do

889

:

way up front.

890

:

And you're balancing the rope to give two

years to cause a bigger transformation

891

:

with specific outcomes we're

going to have in a hundred days.

892

:

And then sticking to that drumbeat,

893

:

which continuously builds that

credibility on an ongoing basis, keeps

894

:

reinforcing keeps reinforcing that trust,

895

:

which gives you more alignment, a gap to

align even better for the next hundred

896

:

days and to go deeper in your plans.

897

:

think that's a great kind of

framework, but it also comes with the

898

:

confidence probably comes

with experience and seeing the

899

:

two-year cycles or the transfer

900

:

transformations over and over again.

901

:

So what advice would you have

for an HR leader who's coming in

902

:

at that level for the first time if

they're building or rebuilding that group?

903

:

Gene: I always say that

it's on my LinkedIn page.

904

:

My brand is that I'm a trusted advisor.

905

:

That's my brand.

906

:

I don't build houses and fix cars.

907

:

I'm a trusted advisor.

908

:

So I would tell

909

:

any HR leader that, look, you have

to become a trusted advisor to

910

:

the individuals that you serve.

911

:

They have to believe that, you're here on

912

:

their behalf and that they can

come to you and they can trust

913

:

you with pretty much anything.

914

:

And through you, you will then

delegate to your staff to deliver

915

:

and get those other things done,

916

:

whether it's hiring, terminations,

et cetera, et cetera,

917

:

acquisitions and so forth.

918

:

They need to know that's the goal.

919

:

There's two goals.

920

:

One is trusted advisor.

921

:

And the other one I always joke

about is that you have to get

922

:

a seat at the table, right?

923

:

And if you

924

:

get a seat at the table, okay,

and you're a trusted advisor,

925

:

you're now sitting in a very

926

:

important space in the organization

because they're going to come to you.

927

:

You wear the suit and now

they know you're there.

928

:

You've earned it.

929

:

The tougher part is keeping

the seat and the trust.

930

:

I would tell a new leader the same thing.

931

:

It's not assumed that you will always have

it because you have to earn it every day.

932

:

And your staff needs to

know that you earn it,

933

:

not monthly, not

quarterly, it's every day.

934

:

Every day, because you

mentioned that rope,

935

:

we walk the rope every day.

936

:

And some days are, today was a good day.

937

:

It was relatively quiet.

938

:

The holiday, people are going on vacation.

939

:

So the phones aren't blowing up

940

:

and everybody's in a good

mood because it's Labor Day.

941

:

But then there's the other days

942

:

when you feel like the building's

on fire and everybody's

943

:

really at their wits end

and we get through it.

944

:

But it's every day, the

consistency of that.

945

:

And when you set the table with, as a new

leader, and you set the table about how do

946

:

you look at the next couple of

years in your structure, what

947

:

do you seek to accomplish?

948

:

And you deliver that to your staff,

it really helps to give them a visual

949

:

of, okay, we're all working together.

950

:

We're working towards something.

951

:

And it's not just a job.

952

:

It's not just getting through it.

953

:

We're actually building something.

954

:

And there's going to be

good days and bad days.

955

:

There's going to be great days too.

956

:

But amidst that, we have

to make sure that every

957

:

day we revisit what we're

doing and we stay the course.

958

:

And if we do that, yeah, we're going to

959

:

look back a couple of years from

now and we're going to celebrate.

960

:

But guess what?

961

:

Then we'll

962

:

start the next two years if we're lucky

and we get the organizations flourishing.

963

:

I hope so.

964

:

Or sometimes it's a consulting assignment

and the assignment's up and it was great.

965

:

And you move on to the next client.

966

:

But either way, there has to

be an established, I would

967

:

tell any leader that just,

968

:

if you can put those things in

place and have that frame of

969

:

mind, you're going to have that.

970

:

You'll get the respect from leadership.

971

:

And then to your point, you'll

earn that trust every day and

972

:

it'll continue to grow over time.

973

:

Thomas: That's interesting because

as a contrast, I would say I have

974

:

seen HR leaders go deep in on the

Kool-Aid of the function and saying

975

:

you need X, you need this type of

policy, you need this kind of outcomes.

976

:

You need this kind of outcomes.

977

:

We need this kind of programming if

you want to be relevant and running

978

:

a playbook that they're used to and

pushing that to the new stakeholder group

979

:

that they're working with, in

this case, a new executive team.

980

:

And that's when you sometimes get

981

:

the in private conversations when

you're evaluating what's going on.

982

:

You hear leadership say,

oh, that's an HR thing.

983

:

Don't worry about that.

984

:

We're not really doing

985

:

that.

986

:

Or that's, yeah, that's just their thing.

987

:

It's not our thing.

988

:

And this approach completely,

if applied, that would never,

989

:

ever come into the picture.

990

:

And maybe going back to the budget

and the fight and the tension

991

:

question, maybe that happens because

of that fundamental misalignment,

992

:

right?

993

:

Am I trying to impose my discipline and

994

:

function on you, the org, or

trying to support and be a trusted

995

:

advisor to the org and bring the

996

:

expertise to enable that?

997

:

Gene: Yeah.

998

:

If you think of it really

more holistically, right?

999

:

It's like being

:

00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:25,620

a doctor.

:

00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:29,110

If you asked me to come in and

give you my opinion after I

:

00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:31,170

gave you a physical and I said,

:

00:47:31,170 --> 00:47:32,630

look, generally you're okay.

:

00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,690

You could lose 15 pounds or you

need to run five miles a day.

:

00:47:37,060 --> 00:47:39,050

I'm going to give you

advice that's in your best

:

00:47:39,050 --> 00:47:39,530

interest.

:

00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,240

So now you have a choice to decide

what you want to do with that.

:

00:47:44,580 --> 00:47:45,750

So if I was to sit here

:

00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:49,960

as an HR leader, even in this

organization, sure, people disagree.

:

00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,080

But I think the interesting thing

:

00:47:52,220 --> 00:47:56,540

where I'm at in my career, I get to the

point where I expect them to disagree.

:

00:47:56,605 --> 00:48:01,420

If I walked in here naively and said,

you need to buy my service because I

:

00:48:01,430 --> 00:48:03,410

said so, first of all, that's nonsense.

:

00:48:03,770 --> 00:48:03,810

edge on

:

00:48:08,260 --> 00:48:11,590

that says, I'm the expert

and you need to listen to me.

:

00:48:12,220 --> 00:48:15,630

I basically appeal to common

sense and in what's the best

:

00:48:15,630 --> 00:48:19,530

interest of what their expectation

is for their organization, like

:

00:48:19,530 --> 00:48:20,630

they're running the organization.

:

00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:23,480

So what's important to you

and what's really in the best

:

00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:24,670

interest of the organization.

:

00:48:24,670 --> 00:48:29,030

So if I recommend a policy because

we have a problem with something,

:

00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:31,510

what's the big thing everybody's

worried about these days?

:

00:48:31,510 --> 00:48:34,670

We have background checks and

drugs and things of these natures.

:

00:48:34,690 --> 00:48:36,770

These are tough subjects, right?

:

00:48:37,290 --> 00:48:37,510

We'll

:

00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:38,620

do the research.

:

00:48:39,130 --> 00:48:42,430

We'll provide basically a

common sense approach, but

:

00:48:42,910 --> 00:48:43,900

you have to give them time to

:

00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:44,890

think and digest it.

:

00:48:45,790 --> 00:48:49,840

But to your point, if we stop ramming

this stuff down in people's brains,

:

00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,860

just you need to, the language, you

must, you have to, it's mandatory.

:

00:48:54,380 --> 00:48:55,500

I do that with employees.

:

00:48:55,550 --> 00:48:57,020

See how far you get in emails.

:

00:48:57,270 --> 00:49:01,090

Two people respond out of 200

because they just shut click.

:

00:49:01,290 --> 00:49:05,390

I'm not listening to you, but that's why

even in my role, I still go to stores.

:

00:49:05,950 --> 00:49:06,910

I still go on site.

:

00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:08,640

I still make sure that they see.

:

00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:08,770

me?

:

00:49:08,770 --> 00:49:10,580

I'm visible because I

don't want to be a ghost.

:

00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:11,820

Who's that guy in HR?

:

00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:13,505

We heard we got a new guy.

:

00:49:13,505 --> 00:49:14,080

Who's he?

:

00:49:14,090 --> 00:49:17,510

So you have to work with the folks.

:

00:49:17,590 --> 00:49:20,040

You make sure that they

understand that I'm a person.

:

00:49:20,050 --> 00:49:20,980

I'm an employee too.

:

00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:22,620

This stuff affects me.

:

00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,700

But yeah, I've learned

over many years that,

:

00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:30,200

and my team knows that we have

to have a handbook because it's

:

00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:31,710

important to have a handbook.

:

00:49:32,010 --> 00:49:33,380

It's part of what we need.

:

00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,020

If I go outside to a location

and beat them over the head

:

00:49:37,020 --> 00:49:40,570

with it and start mandating

everything, the likelihood of the

:

00:49:40,570 --> 00:49:43,020

success of it, rather than

understanding that it's an important

:

00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:46,830

document for their benefit in mind,

it's all about that understanding.

:

00:49:47,070 --> 00:49:50,280

Look, it's not a perfect system

because you're always going to

:

00:49:50,290 --> 00:49:55,130

have some leaders that, are,

they've either had, to your point,

:

00:49:55,180 --> 00:49:59,930

they've either had a negative

experience with HR, where it's been

:

00:49:59,930 --> 00:50:02,360

just a dictate, and they just see

:

00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:02,490

it.

:

00:50:02,490 --> 00:50:04,950

They've had leaders that have

come in and said, you better

:

00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:07,470

or else, or they've had groups

:

00:50:07,470 --> 00:50:10,450

that have just been laid down,

but it's just, they had really

:

00:50:10,450 --> 00:50:12,890

no, they had no influence over

:

00:50:12,890 --> 00:50:13,410

anything.

:

00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:15,660

And so nobody knew who they were.

:

00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,560

When you see those things occurring

and you start to also work in

:

00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,310

organizations where you do start to

have some success, you'd find that,

:

00:50:24,780 --> 00:50:26,560

again, one, they're employees too.

:

00:50:27,210 --> 00:50:28,150

They're people too.

:

00:50:28,690 --> 00:50:30,590

Yes, they have the title

and power and influence.

:

00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,010

But at the same time, they don't

want to make bad decisions either.

:

00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,960

So help them make better

:

00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,260

decisions, show them

that they can trust you.

:

00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,450

And then the conversation

shifts because it's not,

:

00:50:42,460 --> 00:50:46,350

oh, like you said, HR is the

black hat or the hammer or all

:

00:50:46,350 --> 00:50:47,670

these other silly things you hear

:

00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:49,500

people say about Human Resources.

:

00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:52,700

And if it weren't true, I wouldn't

be here four decades later.

:

00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:56,080

I've been very fortunate to just work

with some tremendous leaders that just,

:

00:50:57,260 --> 00:51:00,320

over the last several decades

have they figured it out.

:

00:51:01,210 --> 00:51:04,160

They see how important

the employees really are.

:

00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,680

Have critical asset to the organization,

:

00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:08,250

can't do it without them.

:

00:51:08,730 --> 00:51:11,760

So let's figure out a way to make

it a better experience for them.

:

00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:16,280

And Human Resources can be, like I said,

a critical business partner to that,

:

00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:19,870

but you got to have leadership

that understands, that can deliver

:

00:51:19,870 --> 00:51:21,700

that rather than just programs.

:

00:51:24,090 --> 00:51:26,750

Thomas: Thank you for sharing

some of these nuggets from these

:

00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,660

four decades of experience, Gene.

:

00:51:28,660 --> 00:51:32,470

It's been fascinating kind of talking

to you about high level trends and how

:

00:51:32,650 --> 00:51:36,580

the function itself has changed over

this time and where you see it headed

:

00:51:36,580 --> 00:51:41,530

and the center of excellence

concept and empire building to a

:

00:51:41,530 --> 00:51:43,160

more integrated approach that seems

:

00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:43,820

to be winning the day.

:

00:51:43,820 --> 00:51:46,250

And most of all, the posture.

:

00:51:46,850 --> 00:51:48,620

The right relationship as an HR

:

00:51:48,820 --> 00:51:53,380

leader to have with the executive

team, being that trusted advisor.

:

00:51:53,410 --> 00:51:55,230

And there's nothing almost

:

00:51:55,260 --> 00:51:56,240

more sacred than that.

:

00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:01,170

If you can get to that relationship,

a lot of these other questions

:

00:52:01,170 --> 00:52:03,190

that folks worry themselves

:

00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,330

over, having a seat at the

table, getting this program or

:

00:52:06,330 --> 00:52:08,380

that program or getting budget

:

00:52:08,380 --> 00:52:12,160

for X, all of that starts to

take care of itself downstream.

:

00:52:12,515 --> 00:52:14,290

from that alignment up front.

:

00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:16,450

So thank you so much for this

:

00:52:16,450 --> 00:52:19,730

as I'm sure HR leaders and practitioners

:

00:52:19,730 --> 00:52:20,980

will find this useful

:

00:52:21,020 --> 00:52:23,200

as they think about how they can apply

:

00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:24,910

to their own function and organizations

:

00:52:24,910 --> 00:52:26,500

to future-proof their own orgs,

:

00:52:26,500 --> 00:52:28,650

which is what we're all about here.

:

00:52:28,990 --> 00:52:33,300

And so for everyone following

along back at home, this has been

:

00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:35,570

another episode of Future-Proof HR.

:

00:52:35,580 --> 00:52:39,330

Thank you so much once again,

Gene, for sharing your years

:

00:52:39,330 --> 00:52:40,580

of experience and wisdom here.

:

00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:47,050

And best of luck out there as you keep

building great future-proof organizations.

:

00:52:47,050 --> 00:52:47,440

Thank you.

:

00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:48,200

Bye now.

:

00:52:48,330 --> 00:52:48,800

Gene: Thank you.

:

00:52:51,083 --> 00:52:54,143

Thanks for joining us on this

episode of Future Proof HR.

:

00:52:54,383 --> 00:52:56,993

If you like the discussion, make

sure you leave us a five star

:

00:52:56,993 --> 00:52:59,873

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:

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Or share this with a friend or colleague

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:

00:53:03,533 --> 00:53:08,483

See you next time as we keep our pulse on

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