We sit down with John Fowler, CEO and Founder at Outlive, the US distributor for Millboard composite decking. We talk about this new decking material that we have used now in the Around the House NW television show and discuss how this is so different than any other decking on the market today. If you dont like the plastic look of todays composite decking this is an episode for you. For more information visit https://outlive.info/

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Mentioned in this episode:

A new kind of decking and siding from Millboard

For more information about the latest in decking and cladding head to https://www.millboard.com/

Baldwin Hardware

Baldwin Hardware

[00:00:05] Eric Goranson: around, the house

[00:00:23] John Fowler: Yeah. So as we talk about if it's seen the wars and you've got plenty of character in it, but. That same nail. Uh, my cousin Danny was trying to pick it out of the trade show booth, and I let him pick at it for a while, and then I said, Hey, you know what, that's actually part of the mold. And he said, why didn't you tell me earlier?

[00:01:02] John Fowler: This is around the house. Welcome

[00:01:20] John Fowler: Board.

[00:01:26] Eric Goranson: you man. This is great man. I'm a fan of what you guys have going on.

[00:01:51] John Fowler: Uh, they're in the uk. They're a third generation family owned company, and like you said, up front, they just make something unlike anything else on the market. [00:02:00] And yet, as you've done in your shows, I've already seen some of your videos and you've talked a little bit about it in your show. There's so many cool applications for this product and we're excited to have it and bring it to the market in the United States.

[00:02:17] Eric Goranson: know, there's a lot of other great companies out there that have been making decking products for decades or composite, but you guys jumped ahead like 20 years in the how it looks and performs, and that is no dig on the other guys out there.

[00:02:48] John Fowler: you can do that with, right? No. And one of the things I say I agree with you is it's pretty rare to find a product that's unlike and completely different to everything else.

[00:03:16] John Fowler: Um, that it's pretty rare you find a product that a homeowner and a contractor love, and yet, uh, we offer something that addresses both of 'em and it's been a lot of fun. It's been a really fun start. Yeah.

[00:03:39] Eric Goranson: I love people coming over to my house and we just had family over for the, for the weekend, for a graduation party barbecue over this last weekend. Yep. And I catch people picking at the little nail.

[00:03:59] John Fowler: In the middle [00:04:00] of February where people are dreaming about their outdoor, outdoor projects, but they're certainly not enjoying their outdoor projects in February in Wisconsin. But, uh, that, that nail is a part of that mold. Right. That's a key thing for us, is the fact that we're not another one that's been rolled off of a roller or a picture or a print.

[00:04:43] John Fowler: That's actually part of the mold. And he said, why didn't you tell me earlier? And I said, well, it is entertaining for the people walking by to see you work at it. But it's estimate to how realistic that material is and uh, how it feels. And, uh, yeah. No, you're right. I mean, it's just, it's a lot of fun.

[00:05:00] Eric Goranson: And that stuff just is so beautiful. It's so easy to keep clean. And the thing I love about it when I was putting it together was the self-healing ability. It's like it's magic. When I put a screw in, there's no need for cortex or anything like this. You put that screw in and it disappears, and you're like, okay, if I have to go find that screw again, I'm looking for it.

[00:05:32] John Fowler: You're looking for it. Yeah, no, it's, that's a huge thing for contractors and obviously, uh, for us to be able to show that video, we have to put the mute button on or do the beep button because you, you get some pretty colorful language when people do it for the first time, especially contractors.

[00:06:09] John Fowler: And the reason they can do that is our top coat, which is molded, is actually heavy duty rubber, almost like a tennis shoe, is what we promote. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, for your part of the world and for a lot of the people that are getting the water right now, or we get the snow, it's incredibly anti-slip, even when it's wet.

[00:06:47] John Fowler: Yeah. And it's,

[00:06:58] John Fowler: Yep. No, our [00:07:00] product is, uh, it's an inch and a quarter thick, so there's approximately a quarter inch of this heavy duty rubber I mentioned on the top.

[00:07:26] John Fowler: Yep. Um, we have three different models. We have one that's actually got an integrated sandpaper strip on it. It's quite interesting. That was cool. Um, yeah, called Last Grip. We got a little sample of it there. Yeah. But that's not a tape from 3m, coming from Minnesota here, but, uh, actually an integrated sandpaper strip for your commercial dock applications, that type of thing.

[00:08:02] John Fowler: And interesting enough for this is, it's, uh, not to get too technical, but this is actually molded from a piece of American Oak. Yeah. More character to it than the British Oak, uh mm-hmm. And yet they change that over six boards to the mold, and they're consistently changing that. So you always get what we want, which is the character, the variation, the differentiation.

[00:08:34] Eric Goranson: yeah. I mean it's, it's easy to carry around and some of the other products out there are so dense, it makes it one hard to work with that's more flexible.

[00:09:03] John Fowler: it. Right.

[00:09:22] John Fowler: Doesn't help someone like myself getting up there that you wanna enjoy. Enjoy the softer feel on the knees. So, yeah. Wanna work with it?

[00:09:39] Eric Goranson: We got a lot more to go.

[00:10:19] John Fowler: Welcome back to The

[00:10:35] Eric Goranson: Now let's get back. And our discussion with John from Mill Board. Yeah, it's, it's impressive. And, you know, I wanted to mix those two products together because I wanted to have the really detailed weathered look. Of of that, you know, rail car floor for my planter, but still have a similar color on the stairs.

[00:10:58] each

[00:11:21] John Fowler: So between that and all the different applications, I think that's an important thing for us. Eric, and I appreciate your helping us get the word out a little bit as well. It's just, It's not a decking product and now it's purchased for decks, but we do decks. We're doing docks around the country. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:56] John Fowler: Everybody wants performance, funny enough, because it's a rubber top coat, [00:12:00] it's resistant to hail, so Oh.

[00:12:12] John Fowler: recently.

[00:12:25] Eric Goranson: It's solid. And that makes sense. And what I love about it too is, you know, in the, in the Pacific Northwest where I live, and, and that's only a, a small portion of our, of our viewing and listening audience, but what's cool is, is that through the wintertime here, which is our rainy season, we get this slime that covers everything.

[00:13:00] John Fowler: No, that, that's big, big point for us is the anti-slip properties.

[00:13:26] John Fowler: The anti-slip properties are huge for us. Uh, and yet as we've shared, so easy to work with aesthetically, nothing like it, no exposed screws. Um, it's, it's, it's amazing. And that's, safety is an important thing. I, I did an interview recently about safety and inspecting decks because everybody wants to spend their time outside.

[00:13:58] Eric Goranson: Well, you think about it, you know, that's why we have [00:14:00] rubber on our tires, right?

[00:14:10] John Fowler: there. Absolutely. We're not doing wood wheels anymore. We've, we've No thank

[00:14:15] John Fowler: No Flintstones. That's right.

[00:14:18] Eric Goranson: And one thing that I think is cool is you guys have such an amazing color selection. And you guys have some really light colors as well as dark colors, which I think is really cool.

[00:14:42] John Fowler: Um, some people love those darker charcoal, uh, the Brit cedar like you selected and did, and, uh, I think it's beautiful. It's gonna be warmer in the sun again. Mother nature's in charge, but Sure. Um, there's a range. And it's funny because all across the upper Midwest here, People like those wood colors that, you know, we're in the, we're in the world of [00:15:00] oak and maples, so they want their dark browns or medium browns.

[00:15:23] John Fowler: In the uk I'm, I'm evolving with the British language and diff learning little fixed thing is a screw and some of these things, so, yeah. See,

[00:15:43] Eric Goranson: Of, uh, big, you know, 300 year old fur trees. Right. And so I don't have to worry about the solar gain from it. So, you know, if I had no trees around, would I have gone with, with the dark? Probably not. I'd have gone lighter. But I have that luxury and those trees, if I wanna remove 'em, it would take me years of [00:16:00] permits to do it.

[00:16:01] John Fowler: anywhere. Yeah, no. Again, back to my comment again. I say it all the time across all these topics, mother Nature's in charge, so it's performed in 140 degrees Fahrenheit. Sure. And people call and say, cuz we do pool decks. You know what does most, most people put concrete around pool deck and they want anti-slip billboard's an option.

[00:16:39] John Fowler: You can put salt on it and wash it away, power wash it off, and it still has those same properties. So aesthetics is an important thing. Performance is an important thing, but um, there's nothing more realistic.

[00:16:59] Eric Goranson: Take a look at [00:17:00] it. The pictures on the website, you can't get a picture to do the justice, right? Because when you get it in your hand, you see it. When I first went and picked it up, up there, up at, uh, Taye Cedar up in the Seattle area up there when I popped up and saw those guys up there. Yep. Man, I tell you what

[00:17:16] Eric Goranson: oh, you're not kidding.

[00:17:37] John Fowler: Is all the photos and, and conversations about benefits are great, but when you actually get this product and you feel it, I mean the material is so light, it actually floats. So it's pretty amazing, uh, to see how it performs in all the different climates, all the different applications. Uh, we're doing docks right now where people.

[00:18:16] John Fowler: Hurricane Union was a category five decimated. One of my favorite places on earth was Santa Ba Island. Okay. And we had some huge projects that we had just gotten started with there. And our product sta through 12 feet of storm surge from the Gulf of Mexico.

[00:18:35] Eric Goranson: We got a lot more

[00:18:55] John Fowler: Hey, this is Ron Keel, the metal cowboy from Keel, the Ron [00:19:00] Keel Band and Steeler. We are rocking around the house with Eric G. Ray is

[00:19:14] Eric Goranson: A great new, beautiful composite decking with John Fowler from Mill Board and Outlived. Now let's get back to this conversation. It's a

[00:19:36] John Fowler: Uh, we're doing docks right now where people. That are having their docks actually self level and, and drop into the water, it's no problem. Mill board can do that and come back up. One of our, one of our winds that I, I, no, it's not really necessarily a wind, but just a testament to the material is everybody remembers the hurricane that hit Southwest Florida last year.

[00:20:17] John Fowler: Wow. So to have it sit in saltwater for three, four days and then install those same boards, not replace 'em, I think it's a testament to performance and that type of condition too. So, um,

[00:20:36] John Fowler: I haven't seen they, they come every year.

[00:20:44] Eric Goranson: an ugly one. Yeah. I knew people had houses down there and stuff that just got tore up. But that is a testament for the product though, that it could, that it could withstand that. And there's a lot of other deckings that you'd. It'd be the first for the warranty department going, whoa, we can't cover that.

[00:21:23] Eric Goranson: So when you use it like on a screen or something like that, because of that rubber, that's also gotta have some sound deadening properties as well to it because, Being that flexible surface means that sound isn't gonna bounce

[00:21:44] John Fowler: Just finished it up. It's in California at a place that shall remain nameless, but you'll know when you see it. It's actually the biggest container home in the United States, so, wow. It's, uh, I wanna say it's nine or 10 containers that are all international shipping containers. [00:22:00] That have routed out with custom, uh, glass custom glazing windows, and we Cool.

[00:22:22] Eric Goranson: that's cool. So you could have almost that, uh, you know, that, uh, Gordon Batten look or whatever on the inside, but you're using a product that's just gonna last,

[00:22:32] John Fowler: And I, we don't per se interior cause we're talking about outdoor living, but I've had Sure. We use it in showers. Because they want to have that wood look and it won't rot or warp. So that's a unique application as well where you get the feel of wood, but you can screw whatever you want into it in terms of, um, what you need for the shower and, and, um, it looks amazing.

[00:22:57] Eric Goranson: okay. See now I now have, now I have another project coming [00:23:00] up in September. We're doing an outside dog wash area, so on that same deck you and I have been

[00:23:07] Eric Goranson: Exactly. I'm like, huh, okay, now we're gonna do a dog wash area with it.

[00:23:15] John Fowler: cool. Nice job. Job. Hey, love to work with you, man. It's great. Oh yeah, you too.

[00:23:33] Eric Goranson: Yeah. We offer, or not steel, but it's a, a metal decking. Metal and composite, right?

[00:24:08] John Fowler: So commercially ally, even, we've done, uh, golf courses where we do their path and, and deck outside where it's built into the ground. Yeah, you can use this material where again, you're not worried about the entire system, cuz we're not worried about the top coat with mill. But also the subframe system, uh, the metal system that you noticed is called our dual span, actually, excuse me, it's an aluminum product hasn't taken off.

[00:24:52] John Fowler: And yet you're able to get longer spans on your decking. So, uh, we have not done much with the aluminum just [00:25:00] because it's a great solution, but in this country, the evolution of steel or the subframe I mentioned earlier, the a hundred percent composite. But it's still a great option. And then the self-leveling pucks are great, uh, especially if you have an area where it may be a little uneven and you wanna have that.

[00:25:29] Eric Goranson: think is cool about that is that the other application for that is the people that have that concrete patio, that they step out of their house, go down two or three steps into it.

[00:25:43] John Fowler: Yep. It's one of the best applications for us is when they have something exactly as you just mentioned, where they wanna have a little more aesthetic, a little more maybe anti-slip, but certainly aesthetically a deck instead of that concrete paver that maybe is cracked.

[00:26:10] Eric Goranson: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because, uh, one it for a project, you don't have to rip all that stuff out.

[00:26:19] John Fowler: Yeah. Yep. No, we, we do, you know, things people don't think about. If I can just give you a 32nd tour. I got a little showroom here that I was gonna give you a couple. Give me a tour,

[00:26:28] John Fowler: Let's take a look.

[00:26:46] John Fowler: It's that same board that you put on your deck right here. You can see this wrapped post system. Wow. All you're doing is 45 mitering that in, and yet there's probably 60 screws in that that you can't see. All you see is the grain [00:27:00] pattern. Yep. And that's just simply wrapped around a piece of green treated four by four.

[00:27:24] John Fowler: Okay. So it depends on its own, up to a four foot radius, no problem. And yeah, out you think of a privacy wall. This is probably one of the coolest things, I think, application wise that, uh, we offer, if you have a privacy wall, Uh, whether it's around a hot tub area or a pool area, or just an area where you want to protect it, but you want character and maybe integrate some plants and flowers.

[00:28:05] John Fowler: Right there. Yep. There it is. Uh, just adds quite a bit of character and yet the top one is actually a reclaimed log. You can't really tell the difference. Right.

[00:28:57] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to Around The House Show where you helped get the most [00:29:00] at your home through information and education. We've been talking with John Fowler from Mill Board Decking and Outlived. Now, if you wanna find the videos I made about this stuff, it's a really cool decking product and it was project I tackled at my house.

[00:29:22] John Fowler: with John. Um, when we do these trade shows, we always take one of those same boards you have in our, in our vintage color. Yep. Like a three foot board, right? Yep. And then we'll put a little sample sub frame underneath it.

[00:29:48] John Fowler: It's not magic. And yet at the end of the trade show that board weighs 80 pounds because there's, you know, 150 stainless steel screws into it and you can't see one of 'em. And if you do see a [00:30:00] screw, it's because you've accidentally run into another screw. So I, I did that a couple times actually,

[00:30:07] John Fowler: This is one of the most simple, this is one of the most simple tools we use. It's just a little three inch, four inch section. But we show people this all the time, is how many screws do you see? And then we show it from the side and you can see wow, the screws. So it's uh, yep. It's pretty simple story, but it's powerful too, especially once you get to do it yourself.

[00:30:40] John Fowler: work with. Yep. No, we do a bull nose. We just offered a new, uh, we offer a square edge, obviously for more your modern look.

[00:31:10] John Fowler: Oh, that's cool. So if you notice the four surfaces, right, you got different heights. Mm-hmm. But the coolest thing about this, and this, we try to reiterate this all the time, is if you look at the four surfaces, That's four different molded grading patterns. Yeah, so it's not, they're not all the same. It's not a picture.

[00:31:28] Eric Goranson: it's not that ruled out, stamped. You know, I mean, it's funny. I look at, I look at the I you have now created this. Look for me, when I look at deck boards from other manufacturers, I think of it as the particle board with the wood printed shelf that you get out with the oak printed shelf on it at the home center, right?

[00:31:58] John Fowler: and that's why we promote that molded [00:32:00] comment just because. You're getting the real board except not the maintenance. Yeah. You know, and then the fact that it's consistently changing, I just found out that, um, mill board's consistently selecting from a specific board package, you can imagine the amount of boards they have, but um Right.

[00:32:36] John Fowler: Um, the fact that it's wider, thicker, feels different and uh, the color range is great, but I just love all the different applications we hit. Yeah.

[00:32:55] John Fowler: Yep. Great question. We're a premium product, so we consider ourselves to be in kind of that [00:33:00] top 20% of the market. Uh, we're not trying to compete down low. I mean, the material's coming a long way. We're importing it all from the United Kingdom. Um, and we have stock around the United States. So this is not something where you call and say, here's, here's what you want.

[00:33:45] John Fowler: And we all know no matter what industry we're in, Labor's an important thing. It's expensive and it's huge. Contractors are worth it in gold. Try to get a contractor to come out to your house in the next week. Forget the 4th of July. But yeah, it's, uh, challenging [00:34:00] and yet, uh, they're worth it. You find a good contractor, it's worth it in gold.

[00:34:22] John Fowler: good ones.

[00:34:43] John Fowler: It doesn't take two hours on a Zoom call, but, uh, there's certainly some different things as you experienced that. We wanna walk through some of the basic install, uh, so they're comfortable and confident and it's going in right for that homeowner, for that owner, that business. Um, yep. And then more importantly to us [00:35:00] is that that project goes well, but that there's other opportunities because we've had compliments that there's actually a labor savings in using our product on installing.

[00:35:08] Eric Goranson: guarantee there is. I guarantee there is because Go on in. It went in quick and easy. Yep. Yeah. And then I'm gonna go show and tell one of my favorite things you guys have. Is the touch up coating stuff? Yes. For all my cut ends and, and stuff

[00:35:33] John Fowler: You know, there is no sealing up an end, so it doesn't absorb water. We don't do that. Absolutely. This is purely aesthetic, but, uh, that material works fantastic. And every question that comes to us, whether it be scratching or heat, or warping or el, you know, I think we've, like I said earlier, we've checked the boxes with this manufacturer's product and uh, it's easy to work with, easy to clean up.

[00:36:07] Eric Goranson: no, I couldn't use it in the deck segment as much cuz when I was putting the decking was, if you noticed on that, uh, when I was doing my stairs it was pouring rain and I was getting soaked out there and I'm like, yeah, it's not the day to get the waterproof stuff out and make a bigger mess.

[00:36:20] John Fowler: it. I lived in Belgium for six years, so I can appreciate the fact that it rains up where you live just like it did where I lived. I mean,

[00:36:42] Eric Goranson: So something that's gonna be easy to clean. It's a big deal for me because those little sap things on a, on a non capped deck is now a permanent fixture.

[00:37:04] John Fowler: Mm-hmm. Residue from flowers out of pots or out of planters. Uh, yep. You just, simple power, simply power. Wash that off and it goes away. So, um, it's good. Real easy to maintain.

[00:37:23] John Fowler: gorgeous stuff.

[00:37:43] John Fowler: But we got a full group of inside sales team that's handling inquiries. And whether it be samples, we'd like to learn a little bit about you and your project or your business if you're a contractor. And, uh, I'm telling you that as you say, we want to get it out there into people's hands. Once people start to work with this, be it a [00:38:00] contractor or a homeowner, the referrals kind of flow through.

[00:38:17] Eric Goranson: Yeah. You guys were great when I first reached out to you and went, Hey, what is this stuff?

[00:38:32] John Fowler: to work with you guys on that. Thanks man. And that, that, you know, social media is big too. We have a Facebook site, we have uh, Instagram site, outlive underscore usa.

[00:38:54] John Fowler: Okay. Get people to know that there's other options out there. So you got it. Appreciate you, uh, getting [00:39:00] me on here. This

[00:39:08] John Fowler: I talk. All right, we'll be in touch Eric.

[00:39:12] Eric Goranson: Thank you, John. We'll talk soon. I'm Eric G and you've been listening to Around the House.