Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer are joined by special guests Ryan and Rachel, hosts of Australia's #1 Babylon 5 podcast: Yum Yum Podcast, to discuss the letter Z, walkabouts, and awkward sleeping locations. Oh, and Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 21: Shadow Dancing.

You can find more Yum Yum Podcast on your favorite podcatcher, Youtube, and Twitter @YumYumPodcast.

Hello and welcome to Who Are You, the Babylon five watch cast hosted

by two former strangers now, friends who have gotten to know each other

while rewatching one of their favorite shows from their childhood, Babylon.

Five.

I'm Jafa.

I'm Laura, and today we have some more friends.

We do

Hello.

go ahead and introduce yourselves,

Well, I'm Ryan Lewinsky.

One of the hosts from Yum Yum Podcast, the only podcast that's

the Australian Babylon five one.

That's right.

We're the experts.

Anytime B five comes up with some Australian cultural nonsense, I shake

my finger and go, ah, ah, that's a lie.

Or it's true, like, like v's.

Ex-boyfriend who was Australian, real Australian, one of the few times

they bothered to get a real one.

Never again though.

Never after that.

But and he looked like he was wearing some real Australian wool.

Oh, yeah.

What a word.

America I was, was really obsessed with in the eighties.

It was, it was true.

But yeah, overall, who I am, I'm just a I'm just your nerd.

I'm just your average science fiction TV nerd.

I just live and breathe the stuff, and so I, I wanted to podcast about it.

I'm a big Star Trek fan.

I'm a big Babylon five fan.

And well started podcasting about both of those things.

And it's, it's just fun to talk about older shows, newer shows, and I'm

just a, I'm just excited to be here.

That's

very

sweet.

I'm excited to have you

And I'm Rachel.

I'm Ryan's wife and co-host.

I became a much more of a sci-fi nerd through my relationship with

Ryan cuz he kept on being like, you haven't seen all of Star Trek.

It's true.

It's on free tv.

I would hold your hand and say, I promise Voyager gets better.

and and it's one of my favorites now.

And then the Chikota seven relationship happened in the final season and

you looked at me and said, you promised it wouldn't get worse.

I lied.

I lied.

No, you warned me about that.

You warned me.

You are like, it comes out of nowhere.

It does and it goes nowhere.

Chemistry with the doctor is so much better, but chemistry with literally

anyone else is so much better.

Yep.

And we've been.

Yeah.

And now we've been doing podcasts for a couple of years now.

Mm-hmm.

, we look at things from the married point of view as well.

I guess we're the only married couple doing B five.

The only people who argue about if if this is an actual good relationship

from the point of view of people in a, in a long-term relationship too.

It's fun.

My husband is watching with me behind the scenes and he has

never seen Babbel on five before.

So a, it is fun to do with someone who hasn't seen it and somebody

that you know very, very well.

I don't think Ryan would've married me if I hadn't watched a B five.

I had the DVDs, there was no excuse not to watch 'em.

So it is.

Yeah.

I actually don't know.

Would we be together if you turned around and said, nah, B five socks?

I don't know.

Or if I was like, nah, I'm not interested in watching that.

I, I dunno if either of you have gone to that point of a friendship or relationship

where you are struggling to choose them or the piece of media you like, but

I've, I've had plenty of those moments.

I think I got rid of all the dus before I had to make that choice.

The only thing I struggle with is sometimes he wants to watch

the zombie media and I have to figure out what I'm gonna do when

he's watching the zombie media.

Gosh.

It just gets in my brain.

It's hard.

I mean it good thing that all those zombie shows are so uplifting.

Not a single one is depressing at

Right, and there's, there's none that are really

popular right now either, so

No, totally not the case.

no.

Not at all.

It's not like jms wrote a zombie thing either.

Let's never forget World War Ed.

What a weird film.

yeah.

I did read that book.

He kills a kid in that movie too.

He really doesn't like kids

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yikes.

that to my reasons to read Becoming Superman to see if there's

a something underlying there.

Yes.

Just, just a yes, yes, yes.

have you read Becoming Superman?

Yeah.

We've listened to the audio book version with with Londo reading it, and it's,

it's talking about uplifting J Yeah.

You read it and you go, yeah, yeah.

You are jms, aren't you?

This is why you, you are the way you are, huh?

Yeah.

because one of the events of this episode with Franklin getting beat up is

inspired by real life events for j m s,

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

, he comes back to this a lot in B five as well.

He does.

We had this a couple of times already, but yeah, this is the most prominent

one and most direct parallel to it.

yeah.

To the point I was reading old posts on the use nets, and it was something

where he hadn't even really put two and two together that this is what had

inspired the story in the first place.

Uh, And he talked about his own walk about there, where he just

wandered around San Diego at two in the morning and then got mugged.

Mm-hmm.

I'm sure it's the exact same thing.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

He wandered into a situation he shouldn't have, and then got stabbed and hurt

and had to crawl his way back to life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's there.

Mm-hmm.

But did he meet himself and did he find that he was a jerk?

I hope so.

I, I, I, I don't know, but I think that he probably figured out

that he didn't like himself very much.

Do you think that I, I get that sensation in Babylon five, that Jml JMS has a,

a struggle with his own, his own self.

Yeah.

I get that.

Just a dinge, just not the highest self-esteem of anybody.

Hmm.

This episode almost didn't air in the uk.

Also

Blood.

scene.

They ended up editing out.

The seven seconds of the direct stabbing to air it on channel four,

Is that just a censorship thing

out earlier.

mm-hmm.

.Yeah.

The UK seemed pretty prudish back then, so.

They did have, I don't know if you've seen them, but there are some

online of, I think channel four.

You said it, have some fun Babylon five personalized TV spots where like the

actors like Richard Bigs, walks onto this really 1990s set and says like yellow,

there you are watching Channel four.

And then he walks off and there's another one with Jerry Doyle.

There's a few of them.

And I find it amusing when these actors from America had to do their

own personalized little, hello there.

Watch my show uh, in your country.

Bye.

That's cute.

Were they not in their uniforms?

Were they in street clothes?

I think they were just in casual clothes.

I may be wrong, but uh, yeah, but they weren't their characters.

They were very much like, Hey, it's me, Jerry Doyle, and

you should watch B five.

I don't know if this will make any sense to you at all but in America we used

to have a kid show called Reading Rainbow.

Mm-hmm.

. Yes.

Lava Burton hosts some of that now.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was Lava Burton was the host and he did an episode of Reading Rainbow

where he went to the next gen set, cuz it was, they were filming at the same time.

And uh, did a whole episode there with like Patrick Stewart and Michael

Doran, I think were on it and stuff.

Out of makeup, in street clothes, reading books to me as a child.

And I also was watching Star Trek as it was Eric at the time too, and

just seeing them in street clothes on the bridge as like a seven year

old, maybe six, broke my mind.

Yeah.

It, it's, it's, it's really bizarre.

It's like when I first saw Leonard Nemoy without the ears in something

else, I was like, oh, you you look different in Colombo, Leonard

All right.

Well, with that we can go ahead and start getting into this episode.

We've got season three, episode 21, shadow Dancing.

We open on another one of these ominous Z minus 10 days now.

Yeah.

So as we call it zed minus 10

days

yes,

there's one of those Australian words,

Yes.

Words.

it's a

I suppose.

actually.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's just

we're the weird ones there.

Laura

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You are the weird ones.

We're we're talking the, uh, the

king's English

Well, let's,

Even the Canadians.

let's just not try to measure anything on

this podcast episode So, in this opening, Dylan is yelling at the league.

She's trying to get as many ships as she can, right?

They're, but they're not gonna tell them where they're going.

I think this is a interesting, bold move.

They can't trust them.

Have you ever been able to trust the league of non-aligned worlds?

I mean, the guy she's arguing with a season or two ago

was fighting over colors for

Yeah, true.

She's right.

Yep.

And

need

your stuff.

Mm.

Yeah,

The more people that know a secret, the less of a secret it is.

Mm-hmm.

Well, yes, . Very true.

I, I noticed in the scene, it seems like she's wearing that Ranger one coat, right?

Yeah.

her get handed.

She's actually got it on.

Yeah.

She's like, I'm here as a representative of the Rangers.

I'm not just, yeah, I'm not ambassador.

She's range one isn't, she's range one.

Mm-hmm.

at the same time as we get this scene we cut over to Sheridan going over

the final finer details of the exact same plan with Ivanova and Marcus, and it is

a grim outlook for the white star here.

hmm.

They say 50 50 chance of making it back, which is not good.

Either they will or they won't.

But it won't stop Marcus from uh, clipping.

No, that's, that's necessary.

If he, if he's in his final hours, he's gotta get all of those quips out, baby.

Yeah, he's, he's in his range outfit.

He has a pocket that he just unfilled like a massive amount, like a scroll

from that has all of his quips that he's written down over the years.

And he's gonna use each one of them before he goes.

And a bono's just gonna cry into teeth down to the.

Does it expand out further like the pike does to you?

Oh, yes.

Yes, that's exactly it.

He pushes a button and just a scroll pops out like the pike.

Just unfill.

It's like a firework.

Those are real.

Now, by the way,

Yes.

those collapsible staffs, I do not need one and should not

have one for a number of reasons.

Mm-hmm.

. Mm-hmm.

doesn't stop you from wanting one though, does it?

And he says this as he looks on Amazon for One Ink fighting Pike.

Is it Pike?

Yeah.

Need one.

yeah.

We go to theme after this and when we come back, the league is in it's the,

the scene's kind of set up to make you think that the answer is no before

It's a fake

is said.

Yeah.

It's a fun fake out though.

I love the cinematography in this particular scene.

It's also just a striking image to see the council chambers just virtually empty.

It's just these two and uh, I don't remember which particular actor it is

that's playing this Jari cuz there's a few different tarzi ambassador

Mm-hmm.

But he's great.

He's great.

And I dunno what it is.

This episode in particular, whoever was the director of it was like, I

wanna show off the makeup because there's lots of closeup shots of

these actors in the alien makeup.

It's like glory shots of like, look how good our makeup is.

And you know what?

The Pac mirror earlier, it wiggled his little tens looked great.

Love it.

This guy

one wasn't a Adam, was it?

No, that's Next episode directed by Adam

Mm-hmm.

. Probably, I don't remember.

David j.

Eagle or, or somebody, the usual contenders.

Mm-hmm.

So Marcus and Ivanova head off.

and we get a little bit, uh, make God stand between you and

harm and all the places you must walk, all the empty places.

Uh, I was under the impression that Ivanova was God.

So maybe this is just directed to Marcus

Yes.

I mean, that makes sense too in their dynamic that she, she is the power and

he's the subservient one, so he needs to know who's, who's the top dog here?

Oh, he knows.

He's fine

with it.

is well aware.

he likes it.

Yep.

After this Garibaldi and Zach West Wing while talking

about Franklin to remind us of his status before we cut over to him.

Yeah.

Does this scene strike anybody else's particularly sad?

considering the Fs of both actors, Jeff

Conaway

and Jerry Doyle.

I actually feel sa sad on a character level because I love Zach

Allen, and I think Jeff Conway does a really marvelous job with very little

given here because there are these moments where he's saying the, oh, he's

gotta get his head screwed on straight.

And uh, you gotta let him do it on his own.

But even then with those lines, you see Jeff just have these momentary

pauses and looks on his face of like, even I don't believe that fully.

Like, just before the scene ends he walks towards the doorway, stops, turns back and

looks, and almost is contemplating saying something and then just does the Zack

Allen thing of, eh, it's not my place.

I'm just gonna walk on.

I'm just, who am I?

Who am I?

I'm just Zach Allen.

I'm just a, I'm just your average cop.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I gotta go to get a bagel.

Bye.

Yeah.

Do cops eat bagels in Australia?

Is that a

stereotype?

I mean, does, does he not look like a bagel man?

I mean,

Jeff Conway.

Yes.

. YumYum: Zach

Allen

definitely.

Hey, we know he is a pizza man.

He's a pizza man.

That's a fact.

That's confirmed.

Yeah.

I don't know.

You know what?

You got me.

What's, what's Zach Allen's snack of choice?

Hmm?

I don't think a bagels as being a snack.

I don't know.

It's something, it's not a fullon meal.

I'm not gonna say like, oh yeah, that's lumps like people have them for breakfast

or cream cheese and salmon or, yeah.

But sometimes cops get these things just as a snack to boost their spirits.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, Zach

Allen strikes me as the type who would eat a whole sleeve of saltine crackers.

Yeah.

He was just like uh, day before payday man, he has a, that's all I have.

He has a Kavanaugh in his pocket.

Yeah.

He's, he's definitely a paycheck to paycheck, man.

Yeah, for sure.

After this, we cut over to down below and we get some fucking tourists.

It, it's hard for me to not think of that woman as a Karen,

even though she is called Barbara.

She gives such Karen vibes.

She, and it's just like these people have always existed.

They have

She's actually a pundit from Fox News.

You can't tell me otherwise.

Now, I loved her lines of dialogue because obviously you're

focusing on the scene where it's about, this little girl has dropped her off,

Jesse, and it's gone over to Franklin.

And it's like this ironic thing of, Hey, watch out.

You don't know where he's been.

And it's like, well, actually he was the chief medical officer of Babylon five.

Like that's the thing.

But I just could not help but keep listening to the dialogue.

She kept spouting during the scene where it's supposed to be in the background.

So good.

And it was hilarious.

And I just love the husband.

This, this.

Absolutely.

Every time you come back from your mother's, she reads

trash That's Oh, she reads.

She reads trash.

She reads trash.

Um, He's fixed the economy.

That's good enough for me.

I don't know if you know too much about this actress by any chance.

Cause I had to look her up because this is, she's, she's weird.

And I found out she was one of the original founding members or one of the

original members of the Groundlings.

So the improv uh, troupe.

And that makes sense cuz I wonder if she's improvising lines here because it

could be, or it could just be jms who like, I, I've written some funny stuff.

Just be wacky, but who knows?

Given how little improvisation it was typically allowed on Babylon five.

It is.

That is a good

It's also weird that they got like an improv person, like one of the founding

ground links just to be a wacky character.

I know that they're supposed to be husband and wife.

It's obvious from the dialogue, but she has big mom energy.

Like she's acting like his mother

Mm-hmm.

You saying she's a mommy in the relationship

yeah.

. It's, it's very awkward.

Um, this scene is where my husband paused for a second for me to write

some notes and he turns to me and.

What happened to that machine that heals everyone?

You know, the thing that healed everyone, like, couldn't that be useful right now,

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

was like, yeah.

What did happen to that machine?

Hmm.

Yeah,

Hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm.

I know they used it that one time to save Gary Baldy,

so, so I think it's done right.

? It's, it's in the, uh, Raiders of, yeah.

The Raiders of, yeah.

It's, it's too dangerous to be used again.

We all know this.

we haven't, we haven't studied it enough to

it's just

in the back somewhere.

catastrophic if someone were to use it, they, they might not survive.

We just can't,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe we put it down on Epsilon three.

So nobody's tempted by it so that it's not a security risk of somebody just

finding it and using it unsupervised.

No,

it's, uh, Dr.

Hernandez and Lillian Hobbs are playing with the knobs.

They're just twiddling with it.

. That's where they, those characters are

Whenever they're not on screen you are saying, where are they?

They're playing with the life fishing machine.

They're researching.

They're

Lillian Hobbs all over

I am, I was thinking, I was gonna ask is why are there like earth

tourists, some Babylon five when it's broken away from the Earth and

like, why is this scene happening?

And she mentions it.

She says they shouldn't have broken away.

Yeah.

There weren't poor people in down below before they broke away from Earth.

Yeah, no

just such a weird detail.

James actually addressed that on Usenet cuz someone complained about that.

And it's all.

Well, you can be a tourist in countries at the, like now with the US passport,

you can go to countries that the US doesn't recognize as legitimate countries.

You are physically able of traveling.

You just might have some trouble.

Yeah, I just find it amusing.

It's like if you went to North Korea and then walked around with your hands

on your hips saying these stupid North Koreans and they're silly government, why

would they not abide by American values?

Like that's what

she's doing.

And one of the most dangerous places of the station.

Just,

Yeah.

They're lucky it was Franklin, but they have a brochure.

Mm, yeah.

. So they're allowed to be there.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

Somebody printed a brochure that explained down below and gave directions.

That makes sense.

What makes it even funny is thinking about this husband and wife booking

their, their, their vacation here.

They're sitting at home bickering about like, no, I want to go to this place.

No, we're going to Babylon.

Five.

Why Barbara, you don't want to go this?

Okay.

Cause I wanna laugh at the homeless.

See, for me, it doesn't read as if.

They've gone to Babylon five for their holiday.

It reads as a pit stop.

Oh.

Like they were going somewhere else

The shuttle got canceled.

They're on way over.

mm-hmm.

or like, they're just on their way back and since like, they went to a place

that still recognizes Babylon five.

Like, mm.

I dba or they went to San Tori Prime.

I would've loved to see these freaks at Miba.

Yes.

That would've been great.

And they're like, well, we're, we're gonna stop here cuz this is the transfer point.

I, they're on Miba and they're looking at all the triangles that

Miba have and they're like, what is with these freaks and their triangles?

Are those things haven't changed in centuries?

Are those bones on their heads or little hats?

I cannot fathom.

Look, jms make this a whole show about these two characters.

That's what Cru says.

Crusade

should have

the reboot.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, I would love, like if like Babylon five was coming out,

like during the late naughties and you got those web series.

Oh yeah.

The little web episodes I like of their adventures.

I would've killed for that.

That sounds great.

Honestly, maybe that's what you do instead of uh, and now for a word from

you, do you do a whole episode from this perspective?

From the tourists,

Mm-hmm.

just traveling around the world.

Jerry Seinfeld.

What's with all the triangles?

It'd be hilarious.

You're right.

Richard a's Travel Man on Babylon.

Five He's there with some IR referent British comedian,

and they're both unimpressed.

Oh, no.

Like they're the travels with my dad, but it's travels with

my mom and it's the two of them.

Yeah.

He's like, I'm actually her husband.

I, I not the vibe.

I know.

I, I can't imagine jsu there going, wow.

I didn't expect anyone to get so much mileage out of these

two background characters that hammer in a very obvious theme.

, this is what you get when you get improv act.

so after this we get another account down on our

ticker Zed minus six days.

That

was for both of us.

of

you.

Thank you.

Uh,

Marcus here is the guy in your college dorm who flirted in French

all the time, but lied about what he was actually saying.

Mm-hmm.

It is, it is awkward as hell.

Yeah.

No.

You didn't find it, it was just like, did you think that she would never find

out what you actually said, or were you counting on her not remembering?

Or did you think it was gonna be impressive when she did find out that

you, you lied about it, but you didn't majorly lie about it at the same time?

Like when he explains what it means, it's like, oh, okay.

Okay.

Like I kind of, I kind of get that version of the translation.

You are being a little bit euphemistic here.

He's basic.

The thing that drives me up the wall is he says this beautiful,

like, I love you thing in Minbar.

We get the subtitles, well the few times we get the subtitles and Babylon

and five's like, ooh, very special.

But then he is asked to explain what he said and he.

Almost says what he actually said in Minbar.

And she's like, well, that's an odd thing to say.

It's like, well, they're odd people.

That's not odd greeting.

Like it's one of those where it's like he didn't lie enough . No, it's like

he didn't fully commit because then that would be against his values, but

he doesn't wanna go fully in either.

And it's so frustrating.

Yeah.

I think in his mind how this plays out is she starts taking Imbar lessons from

him and on the year anniversary of him saying this, he finally teaches her

what it means, and then they make out.

That's how it's playing out in his

no.

That sounds like a Star Trek, Picard plot, Rolins only tell the

people they love their real name.

Like, ugh.

But no, I, I dunno.

I think Jason Carter we're making fun, but I think Jason Carter just has that

pitch, perfect amount of awkwardness and gentleman manner and just actual

sweetness where you know, as somebody who's a bit cynical to, to romances,

especially in my sci-fi shows, I watch this scene and I go, oh, you know what?

He, he's, he, he's, he's playing, he's playing the game.

But I mean, we all have to, when we're trying to court somebody, just the fact

that he manages to still give virgin vibes while being that sexy, I find impressive.

Mm-hmm.

he's a theater kid.

Mm-hmm.

, it comes with the territory,

and then we get a, the bit about the bed.

I, I laughed out loud.

This is hilarious.

The just Iva can't sleep on this incline.

She keeps sliding down.

She manages to get it a little bit, lays down, it tilts a bit more,

and she slides off the other end

chef's.

You could, you could feel they wanted to do a little bit of comedy music

there, but B five doesn't do that anymore.

They're told not to do anymore comedy music.

I'll throw it off for a second.

Cause I thought you were referring to the part where he is like,

I like four poster beds too.

And I thought you were saying that.

You laughed at that.

And I was like, oh, that's a big look.

Look, I did laugh at that.

I'd be same

say.

Now I wanna ask, what version are you watching for Babylon?

Five.

We are watching this on the DVDs because down here in Australia,

we don't have all of the services that has the new HD remaster.

So are you watching it on, on Tubi or whatever it is.

Neither of us are actually I'm watching on Voodoo where I purchased

the series before it was made available on HBO Max a couple years ago.

So I got upgraded to the remaster for free, which was awesome.

Mm-hmm.

and then Laura, you're watching on Apple tv?

Yeah.

We bought it on Apple tv.

So is it in the old ratio, the square, the four by three.

Yes.

So interesting about having it on DVD v D in the 16 by nine is you

get to see one of the crew members' hands grab Claudia Christian's head

and gently bring it down to the ground because that's a piece of fun.

That's a piece of fun.

Well, I'm glad someone was looking out for her.

Yeah.

Um,

safe

I I have a question for the group here as well.

Related to this, what is the most uncomfortable place you've ever slept?

I, I do mean physically.

I want to clarify that The most

mentally.

Oh, right, . Um, well, here's a story where Ryan gets to

complain about my family.

Go ahead Ryan.

Oh, I don't know.

Oh, yes.

When we were ready to get, when we were uh, about to get married, we went

back to Rachel's hometown area while staying at her mother's new place.

And her mom had a uh, fold out couch.

Was it futon?

A futon.

And it did not fit both of us.

So I was, It was lumpy as all hell.

Lumpy as all hell.

I was almost like pressed up against the side of it.

So it's like the, the armchair, like the arms, part of the, this couch was

just on my neck and I'm like dying.

And then I'm having to roll on the floor.

But then even Rachel later in the night rolled on top of me on the

floor because even she couldn't get comfortable in this bed.

And I'm like, is this gonna be my marriage?

Is this it?

Is this it?

I actually thought there was a time in university, we were at a friend's house

and they only had one single mattress there and it was on like a bunk bed.

So we were on the lower bunk and there was not enough room for either of us.

And I was also pressed up against a wall, like a gecko climbing a wall.

That was a weird night.

I've slept?

in bathtubs a couple of times.

Which side?

Which end is your head on though?

Tap side.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's, no, that's how you wake up and hit your head.

No,

Yeah.

It's, it's feet and, but then you have the option of the, the best

bathtub is when to sleep in is one where the tap's in the middle.

True.

When I was in college, . I fell asleep in a bar on

Frenchman Street in New Orleans,

and I, this was not a like too many drinks situation.

Okay.

I was underage because everyone in New Orleans assumed that

because I was tall, I was over 21.

Uh, Even though I've been this height since I was 16, whatever, you know, I had

one drink, but it was very late and I am a sleepy person, And so there was a bench

and I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna lay on this bench for a minute.

And one of my friends was sitting next to me and they just kind of took

turns making sure somebody sat next to me while I slept on this bench.

And,

you know,

a

I, I slept under a bench in an airport once.

But I did have too much to drink.

So I was flying home.

I was at LaGuardia Airport in New York, and my flight had gotten delayed,

delayed, delayed, and then canceled.

And while it was getting delayed, it's all like, okay, well I know I'm

capping home from the airport, so I'm gonna have a drink at the bar.

Just waste of time, like delayed again, I'll have another drink.

So I ended up getting like a couple in and uh, then it gets canceled.

But my rescheduled flight is for like five 30 in the morning and it

is like 1130, midnight or something.

And so I'm like, oh, well it's at the same gate.

I already know that.

So I just got under the bench and took a nap,

and uh, security woke me up about four, kicked me out of the terminal

so that they could clean it.

And then I went to a hotel lobby for an hour nearby, hung out, and then

cabbed back to the airport to fly home.

Now you

met John Candy

and went on a cross country adventure that changed your life forever.

Kevin Bacon stole your cab.

Yeah.

I have also one at my mom's house, oddly enough, where it was that same

futon, but I was there on my own.

So instead of sleeping on the futon, I just laid blankets on the floor and

I had to sleep like that for a week.

Well, that's what a vva tried to do.

She, cause she got all the little triangle pillows and laid them as a little bed,

which I thought was ingenious by the way.

I was like, that looks comfortable.

Actually, let me do that.

My other one though, it was, it's.

The, the aftermath of it that makes it uncomfortable.

Oh yeah.

Which was, I was I had a swag, which are either of you familiar

with the idea of a swag?

No.

Those are like corporate freebies here.

That's what that word

no.

,they play disc golf.

They don't know what you're talking about.

What is this?

Camping?

Yeah.

It's a, it's a piece of camping equipment.

It's like you have the like foam mattress and you, you're bedding and

you zip it all up in a sort of like bag.

Yeah.

. Yeah.

It's a full, it's a, it's a bag mattress basically.

Yeah.

Um, So then you can just roll out your swag and then all of your

bedding and your stuff is in it.

Is in it ready to go.

and then you can like zip it up as a, like an extra sleeping

bag sort of thing as well.

Franklin, should you have one of those on him?

Yeah, that would make sense.

That would

make sense.

Um,

Yeah.

so I was out staying with my dad and we were staying at my uncle's place

and he had this house that was like, had been abandoned on his property and we

were sleeping in the abandoned house that had no electricity but are ghosts, No.

So we got there at like, I know I think it was like 1230 at night.

So I was having to roll out this swag in the dark in this

room of this abandoned house.

And then I'm like hearing crunching and I'm like, I'm too tired.

No , too tired for this.

Too tired for this.

And then, so I was sleeping on the swag, which was fairly comfortable,

but it was creepy being in an abandoned house essentially with

crunching under you that you were like, I'm not gonna investigate that.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I kind of forgot about it.

And then I was rolling up the swag a couple of days later when

we were leaving, and then I was like, ah, that's a rat skeleton.

I've been sleeping on

. Yay

Oh.

man.

Fully just bones for, for the listener out there, you're

missing out on the video experience because Laura's soul left her body.

Then it just, it just left.

It just said goodbye.

I'm going into a soul Hunter's bowl now.

Being kept over Morgan Shepherd.

So I think that's probably one of my worst sleeping experiences.

True

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was afraid it was going in the, the like snake or large spider

direction, because that's one of the few things I know about your country.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

We have those.

Oh, no.

Oh no.

That the huts were on the wall.

It was fine.

The spiders

Yeah.

Yeah, Where you can see them?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they can see you.

Yeah.

husman

get how any of you live in climates where the bugs get

bigger than like two inches,

They're friendly bugs if you don't annoy them.

No thanks.

back to the episode, we do mirror mirror.

A little bit of this with Yvanova's sleeping situation is Dalen states her

intention to watch Sheridan's sleep.

Yeah.

An indecent proposal.

I would not be okay.

Like if I was in love with someone and this was culturally important

to them, I could probably deal, but it's not gonna go well.

Like it, one is a concept, this creeps me out.

But also I've been told multiple times that I occasionally

sleep with my eyes open.

Nice.

Mm.

so I can only imagine what the experience would be like for it to have

someone to watch me sleep like that.

Mm-hmm.

It's

one wants this.

Mm-hmm.

,your true face is saying,

My true face is just like,

Look, this isn't the, the.

This isn't the weirdest minbar ceremony we'll get, there will be plenty of

weirder ones that involve people.

Uh, Also eves dropping on certain uh, physical things.

It's not even eaves dropping cuz Eves dropping suggests some level

of you don't know they're there.

Minbar let's, yeah, let's have a freak.

Never forget all of this minbar stuff is because Sinclair wrote the book on this.

This is Sinclair's.

I blame him.

This is Sinclair's fault.

I don't some of their traditions predate Valin.

No, but all of their things are like, Valin made this

rule because Sinclair fucked.

He was a freak.

He was a kinky boy.

He had frictionless sheets and he wants us to look at each other as we sleep.

liked to

The frictionless sheets.

Oh no, you just slide right off the bed.

What's the point?

He is the

point.

can't grip.

He, he has the point.

He, he doesn't make you fall off the bed because he's fucking you

so hard on it that you stay there.

He's he's a, he's a he.

Yeah, he's, he's a monster.

We're okay.

What happens?

Franklin gets mugged.

That's what

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He go, He hears somebody screaming or like being attacked in some way,

and he jumps into action to be this superhero and gets himself stabbed.

My my favorite part of this is our good dear friend and the guest that

we had on this particular discussion on our podcast, said that the best

character in the episode is the, the guy's friend, the one who stabs him.

The guy's friend who's like, Hey, why did you do that?

Man, you are so crazy.

Sometimes it's like, what's their relationship?

Yeah, it's

an

a web

question.

Yeah.

What's he, what I mean, what's his life like?

He gets up in the morning and having to worry that my

friend may step someone today.

I live with that.

Yeah.

I'm still in business with him though.

Yeah.

mm-hmm.

Yeah.

not gonna cut ties like he gets the job done.

The best part of it is Franklin does that noble thing.

I'll step in and I'll save this guy and then the guy he saves turns around

and just says, ah, I'm gonna leave you to die because I was selling drugs.

Goodbye.

I'm not gonna send anybody in your direction because

that's too much of a risk.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

to send somebody else.

Mm-hmm.

he'll investigate me,

Yeah.

you know, AAB, I guess.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, he gets stabbed and left alone to commercial and when we

come back the blood loss is bad as Franklin is still screaming for help.

Very funny moment where he looks at his blood covered hand

and says, oh no, this is not good.

And I'm like, is that a medical opinion?

Franklin

he's a doctor.

He would know.

I mean,

he's got a bad history when it comes to self-diagnosis, so he should

oh,

He does.

It annoys me.

It annoys me that he just uses his hand to put pressure on the wound.

Like you're wearing a jacket, Franklin, he's, but he's cold.

It's before he gets cold even.

No, no.

Down below is just a bit chilly.

That's why everyone's wearing rags and warming their hands at trashcan fires.

Remember that?

Remember that scene in one of the previous episodes where we

saw them have a trashcan fire?

I, I do.

I do.

And I believe that that comes back at least a couple more times.

Yeah.

There's no heat, I guess.

And down below space is cold

Yeah, but like the more you bleed out, the less pressure you're

gonna be able to put on your own wound.

Look, Franklin Franklin's not Indoctor mode at the moment.

Don't worry.

A version of that will come shortly for him.

We cut over to Yvanova, who has made herself that bat

out of the triangle pillows.

But as soon as she lays down, Marcus calls her to the bridge as

they found a shadow scout ship.

Yeah.

This is what they were here for.

They were to scout and watch.

Right.

yeah,

Yeah,

been there

So,

per our Zed countdown.

yeah.

true.

So we know uh, Sheridan Dilen arrive on a Imbar cruiser and everyone

starts heading in for the battle.

Dylann takes Sheridan to the tactical center of the ship, which is totally

not just the gray council set.

no.

no.

no.

no.

It's

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is the tactical center,

Uh, I like how you say it.

Totally different lights.

Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

I like how we say it is a gray council set.

Like it's a set and not, it's just a, it's just a black voice.

It's not just a black room with a light . Yeah.

Yeah.

it's,

like, it's,

chandelier thing.

oh, the cgc she Italy.

It's the same set as the inquisitive set as well.

If we want to go there, like, I just love our B five.

It's very uh, practical.

It's like we only have 14 walls that, and we're gonna have

to make 78 sets out of this.

And you know what?

God bless 'em.

They do it.

Sometimes they'll cut to like, here's Cent Prime and it's just a

bunch of curtains , where's like, they've recreated Centi Prime on Na.

Yeah.

It's totally not the same set guys.

It's totally not the same set.

It's totally not the same set.

It's not the same set.

But I mean, even Deep Space Nine did that too.

It's like, look, it's Kardashian.

You could tell because there's curtains.

It's like, yeah, the Kardashians are curtain people.

I believe that.

and it's, it's kind of orange, you know, it's kind of one color that

we know that this planet is Yeah,

We go back over to Franklin, who visits anybody, canyon.

And then he finally meets himself

Yeah.

Mm,

and, and he is a smug asshole to himself, so at least he's consistent.

We

yes.

Yeah.

I call this one mean Franklin cuz I'm really original.

Yeah.

Evil Franklin?

No Franklin He's the evil German Franklin

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like it.

He's in the black uniform too.

Mm-hmm.

..Yeah.

They've, you know, not like they're gonna do another outfit for him.

He's only got the one Cosby esque sweater.

He wears a couple times when he is off duty.

I'm gonna argue.

No, no argument started.

Now, Franklin, when.

Out of uniform is a fucking snappy dresser.

But the problem is we don't see him out of scrubs or uniform all that often.

No.

Go back to Soul Hunter.

He rocks up in this big jacket with a sexy scarf and like a, a button up shirt.

And I'm like, who's this guy?

Oh boy, I can't wait to see this lady's man.

And then they put him in the scrubs and he's too busy being sad.

. I, I don't mind the amount that we get shirtless Franklin instead

my favorite Franklin outfit.

Shirtless.

Worth noting today of the day of recording is actually

Richard Big's birthday as well.

Yes.

It's a really sh a shame that he died so young, like.

He was the first to go.

I, I think that's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was the first cast member to

unfortunately leave us and uh, yeah, we will.

my husband and I were talking about it over dinner and I was like,

I, you know, I really feel like as an actor, he could have been doing

more, you know, in the odds and in the last few years, even like as an older

actor if, if he hadn't passed away.

Unfortunately,

It's, it's strange that one of his last performances is uh, Drake and

Josh, where he played the f in FBI agent.

Yeah.

And the episode's dedicated to him.

And it's just like really surreal because it's like, oh, that's Dr.

He was actually going to be a main character in uh, another medical

drama where one of the lead actors is Corwin from Babylon five.

He was a recurring character in that, and they planned for him to

be like a season long mainstay.

But then he passed away unfortunately.

So, yeah.

You know, he had, he had a career ahead of him for sure, but mainly

playing doctors and authority figures.

But boys, he good at it.

Yep.

Yeah.

If you got a thing that's working, , you gotta keep, make that money, right.

If only he was in house.

He totally would

good.

show right now.

Oh yeah.

A zombie show.

Of

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of 'em, I, I don't know.

the white star destroys the shadow scout ship at the cost of its engines.

As the shadow fleet moves in and it's all big fleet.

There's a lot of little

This is a little shit your pants moment like we've at most seen three,

maybe four shadow ships before this point, and it is just, they just keep coming.

It is a ton.

I always appreciated that you know, you know, it's obvious

to point out that the effects don't hold up, but I think they look

pretty great nonetheless, especially in season three and season four.

It got better over the course of the show, but I always appreciated that they, they

communicate with they that they didn't.

B fived didn't skimp out on spaceship stuff, on, on like the spaceship battles.

Whenever I would watch these shows, Iya was like, oh yeah, we're gonna finally

have a spaceship battle and they'll leave it for that one special episode.

But B five, like every season, they'll sprinkle like four or five episodes

with like some cool ships flying around and zapping and doing stuff.

And they're always very creative with the shadow ships.

Cuz you point out like we've had the, the Army of Ninjas thing where it's like

one of them is deadly, but when you get an army of them, they're not so deadly.

But here they still manage to make a whole armada of shadow ships.

Very intimidating.

None.

They have the option on the white star.

They can risk sending the signal even though they can't escape knowing that the

shadow ships will probably come for them.

to go ahead and do that.

Who wants to

live forever?

yeah.

Malus does actually.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

I've got some news.

Uh, Well, that's for another time.

That's for a short story written by jms

A bad, bad, short story.

Not

it is, I haven't actually read it, but I've read the synopsis

of it and the plot makes me go,

See, I read it

Cringes, the

word that's being used these days.

Mm.

Hmm.

It's,

I don't think I would've made it through if I'd read this might, look.

Look, my big spoiler, spoiler here, literally when we have the end credits

of B five, the one they have for Marcus is just some graphic saying he is in

cryo freeze because JMS wrote the short story and he's saying it's Cannon.

And I hate that.

Fun fact.

I hate that Shut up James.

Speaking of cringe things mean Franklin is still berating

our Franklin about his past.

Mm-hmm.

he runs away from everything.

and Franklin, the evil one's calling the R Franklin.

Hello.

Cringe like, Hey buddy.

Do you remember that awkward haircut you had when you were 12?

While I'm making fun of it now

Yeah, he's like bringing up everything.

every last thing.

he's, he's paranoia from Red Dwarf and you know, there's a

stain on the front of your trousers.

You are a loser.

Richard Bigs, I, I don't know how often you guys have talked about this, but

he's, he was one of like the actors on the show that instantly got their

character from the beginning, right?

Like, I always forget to think about Richard Biggs, the performer.

I always think about Franklin just as a character, and this whole entire

sequence is just, let's give Richard Biggs a lot of fun acting to do.

Cause he's having to act opposite of himself, which is always difficult, but

also he has to differentiate these things.

And both Franklins, you see how these are the two sides of the character we've

been experiencing throughout the show.

And I just, you know, we've gotta hand it to Richard Bigs for being the, the,

the, the cast member who I, I honestly think has been very, very consistent.

And, you know, he, he, he's not afraid to make the character not likable.

It's, it is like irrelevant to the performances.

Like, I'm just gonna play Franklin to the point where I forget

that there's even an actor.

I think he carries off some really wild stuff with Franklin very well.

Like if it wasn't Richard Bigs doing it, it might not have come out the way it did.

and he's funny.

Like this scene, it's very intense, but there's some funny bits here.

Like, oh, I'm sorry.

That's right.

You are too busy dying, aren't you?

Ugh, I'm so sorry to have bothered you here.

Or when he's standing, when he's sitting up on the thing and he like claps his

hands and goes, Hey, it's me, . It's like

Mm-hmm.

he Franklin doesn't get the chance to go hammy or over the top.

So having a whole persona, having like a whole visage of that is just a delight.

He's letting some stuff out.

Yeah, for sure.

Uh, The fleet arrives in time to start the battle before the shadow ships

start a run on Ivanov's White Star.

It's a very tense moment there, but.

. Everyone comes in just in time.

As soon as one of the shadow ships turns to engage, all the jump gates open and

Yeah.

everyone shows up.

That's when JMS cracked his knuckles and said, I better

save this before it ends.

Yep.

Franklin tells himself he'd do it all over again.

All over again.

Mm-hmm.

over again.

All over again.

all over again..

. He would..

And uh, evil Franklin just becomes his, like Franklin's dad in the scene.

He's like, well, if that's the case, then get up, soldier.

Get up though for that ground and climb up.

Like he just becomes Paul Winfield in that whole entire scene.

Yeah.

I mean, he definitely does channel his dad a hundred percent it.

That's good.

This doesn't make sense to me though,

In what way?

I don't believe that Franklin has no regrets.

Well, he, he does have, well, he goes into this later in his, in his

conversation with Sheridan later on, where he has a more crystalline view

of why he has come to this realization.

But here, it's, it is a very much like, I do want to do it all over again.

Like, I wanna have a second shot.

I think later on it'll be a, I'm not gonna do it the same.

I'm not gonna do I the same I was before.

I, I wanna, I want another chance and I'm gonna fight for it.

I think there's an acknowledgement that it's like, yeah, I fucked up, but I'm

not going to pretend that didn't happen.

I'm not gonna run away from, from that side of myself like I have

been like this whole, we'll get into it later, but the whole walk

about concept was just an excuse.

Even though he is saying he's searching for himself, he's actually

trying to run away from himself and here he is, confronted by the harsh

truth and it doesn't like him very.

I just, it's that choice of words to me, like I feel like.

, I don't know.

You know, it's all like, I want to continue or, you know, there's, I don't

just do it all again and you just keep saying it and it's just, I don't know.

It didn't sit well with me.

Just that particular, I don't know if it was, I don't think it was the delivery.

I don't think anything could have been done to change that, if for the better.

But uh, he does pull himself up and he does make his way towards the marketplace.

Meanwhile, the shadow fleet fight continues and they end up retreating.

So it is a victory, but a feric one we see blown up white star

chunks for the first time too.

Uh, I mean, it's only the, it's only the second time we've seen white stars

besides our hero ship white star.

. So we haven't really had . An opportunity to see chunks of white

star, but I found that very jarring.

Like the first time you see chunks of the enterprise or like, I think in

uh, T N G, you see the emoto blow up

before you see any alternate universe shenanigans Where the enterprise

D

Yeah.

I mean, when you see the, the, the vessel of your show explode.

It is very uh, visceral, visceral when it happened in t and g and the episode

caused and effect where the enterprise spun out, and then it exploded.

I was like, oh my God.

As a kid, I was like

In the cold open

fucking exploded the

enterprise

then.

It's a time loop.

Yeah.

the enterprise

evacuate, evacuate, boom, it's gone.

And then, oh, we are back to it again.

I mean, and you know, we, we've seen Babylon five explode already in this

show as well, so the white star, I actually thought the, the image of I

can't remember if it's an, it's all a blur of the CGI battle sequences, but

there's the, one of the minbar ships explodes and the shadow ship just

flies right through the debris of it.

And that's a very v like vivid image.

It's also one of the thumbnails on the DVD v d.

It's, it's very, it's very striking.

Yeah.

They did a great job with this battle.

With all the effects.

Franklin is hallucinating more as they take him to med lab and the

fleet arrives back with their wounded, and then we get another minus four days.

Ooh,

zed minus

Garabaldi is by Franklin's bedside.

As he wakes up, Franklin tells him that he did meet himself and that himself is

an asshole and he sees everyone else hurt in me lab and is like, fuck work needs.

Yeah.

And Franklin, I just wanna tell you, it's not your fault that

Babel on five is understaffed here.

Alright?

Minimum staffing is only minimum when it can handle

leaves, holidays, and vacations.

Yep.

If it can't, it's understaffed.

Yep.

not your responsibility to jump to work right now.

Mm-hmm.

Well, he takes his time.

He gives his, I like how that scene ends where him and Gar

bald being all buddy buddy.

They do the uh, we're just bros.

Nothing more thing of, oh, you cared about me, how sweet for you.

And he's like, no man.

I, I don't wanna lose 30 credits.

And they give Atu of Wink.

Somebody's writing some fanfic about that.

And I did like how he looks at the scene.

It looks at the carnage going on in the med lab and you're left there for a moment

of like, what's Franklin gonna do there?

Because he does sit back down and go, you know what?

That's happening.

And uh, well, we'll see how it all unfolds.

Yeah, he does jump in, but I have some comments about that.

It's interesting.

I, yeah, it, I mean because we've, this is one of the few times

in babble on five, we actually get a very strict timeline of

the events in a single episode.

Is this previous one?

This one where we hit have this zed minus countdown.

So it's like, sometimes it's more fluid where it's like, oh, well,

you know, sometimes you just cut and it's been three weeks.

We know it's been two days since he's had catastrophic blood loss to, to the

point of hallucination and a stab wound.

And I know that medicine is better in the future, but we've

seen people almost die from less.

Yeah.

Well, we've seen people really die from less.

Oh, no.

I'm David Warner and I got shot in the arm.

I'm dead now.

Yeah.

Oh man.

Over in Sheridan's office he discusses with Ivano and d Dalen

possible defenses for the station.

Now that they've made themselves a target they do go on a bit here.

And it's like, well, why haven't they've attacked literally everywhere, but here

there's gotta be a reason why.

Hmm.

Say the quiet part

and the

characters turned into j m s himself and looked at the audience

and said, this is deliberate.

There's a reason we don't know what it is yet, though, and we're gonna figure

it out at the end of this episode.

Bye.

Stay tuned.

Stay tuned.

Is this a scene where Sheridan's breaking down his dream?

Yeah.

He's telling Ivanovo about seeing her and the vision and the things she said

and what she was wearing and all that.

Is question, is this a good scene to you?

I, I, I wonder because it's very, it's very like, Well, I had this dream and

here's what it is, and then ivanovo will go, well, that makes sense.

That lines up like, this is this thing.

Right.

But this is this thing.

Right.

Please tell me more.

. Laura: Yeah, she's kind of

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, this is a

flashback from a previous EP episode, so this was at one point foreshadowing.

mm

There was actually a really interesting note from j m s on this

scene about the PCO uniform because Sheridan is basically in charge

of the largest organization of Telepaths in the galaxy right now.

Oh, that's not Cycore actually.

Like,

Yeah.

And it's the, the organizations are very different than the Cy,

you know, you, you'd like to think they're very, it's very different

than the Cyco, but he is sending and basically militarizing telepaths from

all races right now.

They're guns.

That's what they are.

They're, they're weapons.

Telepaths are weapons.

That's what they're designed to be.

And he will use them as weapons in the show because that's who they are.

That's what they are.

And there'll be more to, to see with that.

I mean,

Yeah.

I'll say is

be no repercussions

shouldn't be treated later.

Better.

Yeah.

All I'll say is leader.

Leader has opinions.

leader deserves better.

Hmm.

Hashtag justice for leader

Yeah.

Yeah, there's like, the man in between is looking for you and stuff, and

they, they theorize, I actually, I have a, a, a little bit to say

about that, but it is Spoily town for about two episodes from now.

Uh, yes, I think I know what you're saying.

I mean, it, the, the, the apparent actual answer is Spoily Town for next

episode, and it's really spoiler.

I think it's really dumb.

So,

I don't like the real answer.

I like the fake answer better.

I, I think I know what your answer is, but we'll, we'll, we'll hopefully

maybe hear about it a bit later.

Well, I'll just, I'll bring it up in two episodes of this podcast.

Just sit it in the back of your mind, listener.

Mm-hmm.

talk about it on the discord, I'm sure.

we cut over to Med Lab again.

Franklin's back at work?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, well, sort of, I mean, he's in his cs, he's not in his uniform.

He's

using a wheelchair.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's just rushing head first into his work instead of taking time to heal

from his experiences and learn and grow, which is exactly what got him

in that situation in the first place.

What's the worst that could happen?

I am going to disagree with you, Mr.

I really like this because one of the things that's really interesting,

one, he's in a wheelchair this entire time, like he acknowledges that I'm

not getting up and pushing myself into the, into the action and literally in

infection all the way back in infection.

I, I really noticed this is he got shot with a laser beam.

He got like thrown across a room and within like a second he was getting

up and putting back on his scrubs and he was gonna go back to work.

Like that's the level Franklin was at.

While he uh, he's keenly aware that he is not of his limitations, of

his limitations, I'm not gonna do that, but I do have a mind that's

available and I'm going to give that.

So he's not giving himself like whole, like wholly to the job.

He is here just to advise.

He's here just to help people.

But that's it.

He's, he's looking at it from the perspective of, I'm not taking on

this burden just for my own sake.

I'm giving it to other people.

Like, I like this.

I like the Franklin Arc.

Overall.

You have to have him.

Also still be the doctor character.

So you have to have it kind of be like, well, how do you transition this?

And I think this whole entire scene, and what he talks about with Sheridan

is, is the most efficient and logical way to have that be the case.

Because I mean, realistically, you would argue that Franklin should

not be a doctor anymore in the show and just do other things.

But it's like, what would that be?

I don't know.

walk about.

my main point of contention with that argument is I do not

believe for a second that if he were physically capable of standing and

having conducting surgery, that he would be full back to work at that moment.

Like, I think the only thing stopping him from going fully

back into his work is that he's physically incapable of doing it,

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah,

and even, even, pretending to be able to do it.

mm.

So.

I think he should, I don't know, like bad shit happens.

Uni should take time and grow as a human being and not just say,

I've had the epiphany, I'm good.

That's, that's

not how

mental work on like your mental

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, I get this.

I think one of the things that really turns the key for me, and

this is the, the, the, the point of view that I look at it is, is

through Richard Biggs's performance.

Yet again, I think he just brings out a certain thing that when you lay it out

in just terms of here's what happens to Franklin, it may seem a little bit

lesser then, but when you have Richard Bigs delivering that big monologue to

Sheridan, he says it not with just this, I've had this epiphany, but there's this

real serene quality to how he delivers these lines, these pauses, and that he's

a really reflective character in this.

And so I, I think it's that

thing of.

changed.

He's definitely

changed and.

I think this is really a case of you have to rely on the actor to sell this

more than the script can at the moment.

And that's what really I think, brings it over the edge for me.

Cuz I can totally see where you are coming at it from too.

Cuz when I watched this initially, Franklin was not

a favorite character of mine.

I'm usually a fan of the DA characters, but I had no real opinion on, on Franklin

overall, but on on other re watches, I, I think he's a, a very, very uh, nuanced

person and I like the fact that he's flawed and he's weird and he's aggressive.

And even at the end of his realizing arc, he's still feels the desire

to be a man who has to give back.

Yeah.

And.

He still has to work on things.

That's, that's it as well.

I would like to add something though, which is, even though we do see him

diving back into work, it is not the same as he's done previously.

He's delegating, he's going, you, you and you, you go do this thing.

It's not, I'm gonna go do this thing and this thing and this thing and

this thing, and it's all on me.

He's actually utilizing the fact that he's part of a team, and I think a thing

that also indicates that shift and we get to see it in action, is him showing

how somebody, how to use the rise.

Not just doing it himself, being like, yeah, let me do it.

He's just like, who taught you how to do that?

You gotta do it this way.

You gotta go watch me do it, and then you'll do it.

Give that kind of vibe of like, okay, and now you are going to give it a go

and I'm going to correct your technique.

Mm-hmm.

, so it.

It's nice to see it in action.

Maybe I'm a soccer too, cuz this is one of my favorite JMS monologues in the show.

I really like the Franklin monologue about being alive and

the moments and living in the

moments and stuff.

Yeah.

It's, really real too that there's nothing that makes you a better teacher

and boss, like a physical limitation.

Like now you have to, you have to rely on somebody else.

Like I'm, I'm coming up on maternity leave

and so I'm having to actually teach my team to do the things that I do so they

can do it for three months while I'm gone.

And uh, you know, we, we've been planning, we've been being very mindful about it.

And I see now that in, you know, maybe the last year, maybe last two years

with my team, I really wasn't asking as much of them as I could have.

But now because we're coming on my physical limit, I'm pushing

them to be better and it, it's a real thing, this scene,

there are those moments in life, whether it is something like yours or

with Franklin with an addiction issue happening, or even being stabbed.

You, you come to a realization of so many different things in your life.

And I really liked how he emphasized uh, with Sheridan.

No, no, no.

I, I ran away.

I wasn't looking after my, I, I ran away.

That's what I was doing.

What I think is awesome about Franklin too is he's your typical doctor character,

the man with an ego, a man with arrogance, and the show doesn't reward him for that.

It always, like, it usually punishes him for that.

It usually says, no, that's wrong actually.

Uh, You are, you are going to get in trouble for that.

It's not patting him on the back being like, oh, Bashir,

you genetically modified genius.

You, you are a cad.

You're gonna have a holodeck adventure and be fun.