The Art of Building Meaningful Friendships with Laura Tremaine

Episode 124 • 12th December 2023 • Momma Has Goals • Kelsey Smith

0:00

And it was a lightbulb moment for me as a way to think differently about my loneliness, because it wasn't that I didn't know people. Click. I think we all know people, that we have these different types of friends, but we feel like it's a little bit lacking because the mom we meet at the park, she's not exactly our perfect friend for whatever reason, or our old friend that we know from childhood that we have a deep connection with. But we've grown apart. Like we know people, we have all these different people in our life, that it's not this perfection that we envision. And so instead, if we can just put them in different places, because even the old friend that you're growing apart from, that is still a place in your life.

0:43

Let's reimagine mom life together. Mama house schools is your hub for relatable support and helpful resources that help you fuel yourself alongside motherhood. Your identity is bigger than mom, and whatever your goals are, together, we're making them a reality. I hear from women all the time. Making friends is so hard. I don't have the friends that I want in my life, and not feeling like they really have their people. And our guest today is the author of a book called Life Council. And the concept of this is having 10 friends that really sit in these different seats in your life so that you have a council and a board of members to support you in different seasons in needs of life. This is a concept that I'm obsessed with because I think it's so important for us to understand that we can't be the number one thing for everyone and they can't be that for us. So Laura Tremaine is a writer and avid reader and enthusiastic podcaster. She's the host of 10 things to tell you podcast and the author of The Life counsel, the 10 friends every woman needs and share your stuff. I'll go first. Laura grew up in Oklahoma and moved to Los Angeles sight unseen when she was 22 years old. She worked in film and television production and TV BH one Fox and Paramount Pictures before pursuing writing full time, Laura has been sharing her life online for over a decade. And she writes about friendship, anxiety books, reading relationships, and connecting with others. Her posts and podcast episodes resonate with women looking for ways to connect more deeply with others as they transform from one area of life to another. This is so prevalent in this community as we transform into new versions of ourselves with our goals, new seasons of motherhood and life. And Laura and I dive into it today, when we talk about how do face to face friendships differ from online friendships? And how do we nurture the friends we already have versus looking for new friends as we become a new version of us? What does this mean in the moments that you just want to be silent at the park or that you really want to go deep with those friends as well, and how she brings us into her own children's lives as a parent and thinking about how to teach these different concepts of friendship. Such a good conversation, dive on it. Laura, I'm so excited to have you here today. If there is one theme in our community that I hear a lot of it's making friends as a mom is so hard. And I hear this from multiple standpoints, people that are outgoing people that are not outgoing. And being a slightly more outgoing person, myself, I find this really funny because I'll be at a park, and I'll see another mom. And I won't even go say hi. And I think about the more shy moms or the moms that are more reserved, and how difficult that can be or we're on a walk and why are we this way. So I'm really excited to have this conversation about this idea of a life counsel, AI and the idea of multiple different types of friends. But before we dive into what that is, I want to hear a little bit more about how you came to this concept and what your story behind it was.

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Okay, well, I'm glad we're talking about this, like, in the framework of motherhood also, because that's a huge part of my story. I grew up in a really small town in Oklahoma. And then I was active in my church and I was in sports and I did summer camp. So I have all kinds of friends the first two decades of my life. Yeah. And then when I moved to Los Angeles, right after college, and in college, I was in a sorority, I It had never occurred to me that making friends would be hard. I'm an introvert. So I'm not as outgoing as you're describing yourself. But still, I always had a lot of friends. I moved to Los Angeles after college, and thought let's the city of 10 million people. I'll make all kinds of friends. And I didn't. It was so hard for me. I call these my lonely years in Los Angeles in my 20s in this huge city to make the kinds of deep girlfriends that I had growing up. And then when I got married, still living in Los Angeles. I thought when I have babies the friends will come because That's what everyone seems to say that when you have kids, that's when you make your mom friends and they become lifelong friends. And you see that on the internet and you see that in movies or whatever. And that's what I was like really looking forward to. So I had two babies back to back. No mom friends appeared. And Kelsey, I was all the things you're supposed to do. Like I was going to Mommy and Me classes, I was going to the park, like you said, I was like doing the things I was putting myself out there. I was inviting women over for playdates or all the things. And I just could not make it click like I could not. Yeah, and I have a lot of thoughts about that season in my life. And what exactly wasn't working, I will say that once my kids got to be school age, is when things shifted for me a bit. My kids started going to preschool. And then when my daughter started at an elementary school, and they were a little bit bigger, like they weren't toddlers on a blanket is when I feel like I found my people. Part of that was the age of the kids. I think part of it was my own mental health, I struggled a little bit when my kids were little. That's why we've been friends so badly. So it's a chicken or the egg thing. But then once you were in elementary school, they were a little bit more independent. And also the elementary school that they went to, I think provided a community sort of structure like there were built in social things for the parents. So going through all of that friendship, like story. I had also been blogging and podcasting all along the way. And every time I talked about that I was lonely in Los Angeles, like just in this online work I was doing, women would come like into my comments into my messages, like so many women, mothers in particular, were also lonely. Maybe they were in their small hometowns, or maybe they were in big cities, it didn't matter. It felt universal. But a lot of women in this sort of early middle part of our life was really they were way more lonely than they thought they would be in adulthood. Yeah. And so then I started talking more about friendship in general, and the life counsel idea, which is like having a board of directors that you would have for a company, but instead you're having a life counsel for your life. So if you had a board of directors for your company, then you would have like somebody who was really good at accounting, and somebody who was really creative and someone who had a background in HR, like you would have these different strengths, right to make your compound strong. The life Council idea does that what but with friends, so it lets you instead of having one bestie that's everything. She's your confidant, and she brings you soup when she's sick. And she knew you when you were a child, like all the bigs. Yeah, instead of having that one friend that you could have all these different types of types of friends on a life Council. And some of those are deeper than others. Some of those might feel shallow, but they're bringing a lot of fun and spontaneity or whatever the different personality types in your life might look like. That idea came from a friend of mine suggested it, she called it the life Council, I credit her in my book. And it was a lightbulb moment for me as a way to think differently about my loneliness, because it wasn't that I didn't know people. Click, I think we all know people, that we have these different types of friends, but we feel like it's a little bit lacking because the mom we meet at the park, she's not exactly our perfect friend for whatever reason, or our old friend that we know from childhood that we have a deep connection with, but we've grown apart. So that is sort of a sticking point. Like we know people, we have all these different people in our life, that it's not this perfection that we envision. And so instead, if we can just put them in different places, because even the old friend that you're growing apart from, that is still a place in your life, maybe like she knows, a part of you that new friends don't know there's still a value there. She can still serve on your metaphorical life counsel, even if you don't talk every day anymore. So that's the sort of big picture of why I wanted to think about friends this way and write about friends this way, and try to change our mindsets a little bit around why we feel lonely, why we feel like we don't have a bestie and how we can think about it a little differently. Yeah,

9:15

I'm obsessed with the concept because I don't want to be everything for everyone. I want to be able to be a certain member on that board, if you will, or a certain member of the life counsel to my friend. And so why would I expect something different from someone else? They can't be all have those different things to me. So allowing us to have these different titles or responsibilities in each other's lives. Whether they're official or non is really, I think a blessing on both ends is to be able to allow yourself to see friends in this different way. I want to take it back to when you were talking about that you just really didn't make friends with parents until your kids were a little bit older. And this is something I see really common. There's a couple moms that will get into a mommy group and they'll find their people but that is not the norm. It is actually not the norm that you find like your best friend in those groups, from my experience with our community and myself and our friend, do you think it has this layer of vulnerability to it? Do you think it's because when we get a little bit older as parents or our kids get older, we're more open and honest with what's going on in our lives? What is the layer of vulnerability and not age and just like friendship in general, when you talk about friendship? Where does the vulnerability piece come in?

10:27

I don't think that I was like, less or more vulnerable. When I had little kids versus when I had big kids. It there are a lot of factors that are happening. And one is, I feel like people like gloss over this as Yeah, yeah. But it really matters is that we are sleep deprived. Yeah, we are hormonal. We are frustrated, our houses are chaos, or something every mom with young kids is living in chaos. That's not what I mean, I wouldn't even describe that time in my life as necessarily chaotic. But it definitely wasn't. I didn't feel like my best and truest self. In those years, there was a bit of a survival kind of thing happening. And there was a lot of beauty. And I have a lot of great memories. But just for me alone. And in terms of making friends, I was definitely in a survival mode. And I had an air of desperation. Yeah, I was like, please be my best friend. I wanted friends so badly. And just like when you're dating, if someone's please love me, that does not make you love them. It's like a little bit of a repellent in a way. And I was trying to be open hearted and vulnerable. And I was trying to be honest and share myself and do all of these things. But it definitely had a desperation of I am lonely, please be my best friend. And what I wish I could tell myself about those years when I was trying so hard. And I really was, I wish that I could tell myself that you can just let those people be who they are. Meaning I knew I had a lot of acquaintances in that time period, like we would go to the toddler birthday parties together or whatever. So we knew each other, we would tech sometimes. But what I was craving was this deep connection that I had in my past, which was not happening. What I wish I could say to myself was just let them be toddler party friends, like just relax a little bit, let them be people that you meet at the park, you do not have to have a deep connection in that moment and have deep connection in your life. But sometimes, in fact, most of the time, companionship can be enough in the moment, like we're companions. We're at the park, I'm not alone, we can chat. We can talk about something pop culture, shallow parenthood, whatever we want. If it goes deeper, great. If it doesn't, by my choice, or hers, that's okay, too. Like, we shared a couple of years of companionship. And that is a seat on the life Council actually, of just having someone there. It's better than not having someone there. And I felt like I drove some friendships away. Or I made myself miserable by overthinking everything, instead of just being like, you know what, this is a companionship stage. I'm just going to have a lot of acquaintances.

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And let's talk about a couple of the other seats on the life Council. What would you say is if someone's listening to this, and they're in I saw this in some of your community as well. If Do you feel like they have no friends right now? 10 feels like a lot to say, Okay, you're gonna bring in your 10 friends that are going to support your life. And they're like, I can't find one. Everybody will find one for yours. Is there like one seat to start with? Or how do you really get started? I

13:49

don't believe that anyone listening to this doesn't have a single friend. I just don't believe it. But

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you know how we can feel that way? Sometimes. Right? Oh, yeah, feel you're alone? It's not true. Like you said, there's all these other people in your life. But if you're feeling that way, then maybe the better question is, how do you evaluate your current association to place them into this life counsel and be aware of what you currently have? Okay,

14:11

so I always give this assignment to people who are coming across the concept for the first time or are nervous that the subtitle of the book is 10 friends every woman needs. So first of all, you're probably not going to have all 10 friends on your life counsel at one there's, these are this is a moving parts kind of scenario. I want people to take a week, just one week, and they are going to look at their existing landscape. Pretty much everywhere they go. You are going to notice who is actually in your life. It doesn't matter if you would title them as friend or not. I want you to just notice the actual literal people in your life like the acquaintances, neighbors, other moms at the park, like we said, people if you work like people at the workplace, the person at Starbucks every single day that person who's also at the Saturday morning yoga class that you are even if you wouldn't call them friends, they might just be people you say hi to or recognize, look at your immediate landscape to see all the people who are around you. And that can fit these different seeds that I write about on the life Council. There's a few deep seats on the LIGHT COUNCIL that you can't create like this, you can't create an old friend out of a one minute interaction. But there are friends on there that are there's a fellow obsessive on the life council. So this is just someone who is equally obsessed with the same thing that you are obsessed with. So maybe that's the bachelor, maybe that's the yoga class, maybe that's your kids, maybe you have friends who don't have kids, yet, they do not want to talk about kids all the time. So you have a mom friend who wants to obsess over every little kid milestone great, a fellow obsessive friend, if that's all you share in common, and that's all you talk about is that shared obsession is a fun friend to have, because they're like filling a need for you and you for them. There's a new friend on the life Council, there's a battle buddy. This is really can be specific to mothers in the trenches of having little kids. Whatever those struggles are for you, if it's just multiple children, or if your kid has an issue, or you have an issue or you're there's family stuff going on, we all have our own battles every single day. So a battle buddy is someone who has probably a similar battle that you're walking through together, even if that battle is just these early years of motherhood. A battle buddy will can be your friend during that battle. But it might not be someone who like is going to be at your 50th birthday party in the future. That's a battle buddy. So there are several seats on the life council that can be occupied by people, you probably already know. Yeah, there's absolutely no directive in this book, or in this concept for you to go find and make 10 new friends what a task that would be, I can't even imagine. That's not what this is about. This is about looking at your existing life and seeing who is already there. And then also, maybe seeing who isn't there, but that you wish would be there. If you don't have a fellow obsessive friend, but you're like that would be fun, actually, then maybe keep your eyes out for that type of person. That a fellow obsessive as an example, could be someone that you also find online, an online friend fits a few of these seats really well. And in my lonely years in Los Angeles, the thing that got me through was online friends, I was blogging at the time, this was over a decade ago. And so I was on the internet all day, every day. And so were some of these other women. And we became like life boats for each other. And that was a fully on the screen relationship.

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And I think that's such a beautiful blessing that we have this day and age to make those real deep connections. Without having to be in person for multiple reasons. Like mom life is busy, it's hard to maybe get out and I was just talking to a friend that has postpartum anxiety and she doesn't want to go out and other places with her child. So having those friendships build behind the safety of what feels good to you is another blessing when you're busy, and you can shoot a quick text message because you're at work or you're balancing dinner and sports or whatever that is. These are things that make those friendships a little easier to execute and nurture. Are there any friendships are any seats on this council, there truly needs to be like face to face friendships are can really everything be what fits your life? No,

18:44

I think can make an all be what fits your life, there are some that I feel would really benefit from being a face to face friendship. For example, one of them is the password protector. Now the password protector is both literal and metaphorical. I do think that it is helpful to have a friend who knows your passwords in the event of an emergency. Now, be smart about it. You're not going to give your passwords to your banking information or whatever, to someone. But in general, things happen. Emergencies happen. I give a couple of examples in the book about why it is actually nice to have someone besides a spouse or besides a family member, a dear friend who might be your literal password protector. And it was also metaphorical password protector, meaning like you could trust them with your deepest secrets. That type of friend I do think just from a safety level should probably not be an online friend should be a real person that you have met and hugged and know. So that's an exception. I think old friends. What's wonderful about the internet is that we can keep up with old friends like online in a million ways or texting or whatever. But I do You'd think that there's something really valuable about keeping a long standing connection with an old friend that you see one another occasionally. And by occasionally, I don't even mean once a year, some of my oldest friends from growing up in Oklahoma, I don't see them once a year. But we do try to see each other every few years. And that keeps that flame a little bit alive. I do think if you go too long without seeing that type of friend, it can, you need to see each other change a little bit. And yeah, there

20:27

is something different about being in person. And I like that you say, it doesn't even have to be once a year, whether it's with friends or family is really kindling those relationships that are important to you. On however frequently it makes sense to you. But it is different when you're in person. And I know so many people that meet friends online, and I've done this as well. And then they do go do a meet up and they create a new version of that friendship, because now they have that in person connection. Yeah, I think that there's so many different ways you can overlap that, how does this show up in how you parent now, when you think about your kids in this really pivotal stage, I think every stage of life, friendship is important from the time that you're two years old, to the time that you're 18 and beyond. But I thought that teenage years were really difficult. And I think being a tween and a teen and being a friend is one of the more challenging seasons of friendship. So do you bring any of this into your parenting, or how are some ways you support your kids with friends,

21:26

y, the Internet gives kids in: 2023

26:00

I love that. And I think sometimes we as parents need to put it in the perspective of how would I teach this to my child to get our own lesson over what we really need to be implementing into our own lives. And I know it wasn't until after I became apparent that I practiced some of those same things of I realized we were saying yes to everything, which meant that we weren't going deeper, having the quality connections and friendships that we were really hoping to value because what felt fair was saying yes, and making sure that we were inviting all these different people to all these different places, when in actuality for our relationships at that point in time, having those more in depth one to one dinners, rather than making sure everyone was included, was what we need it and I think that shows up for our kids, too. What are some of the red flags that we can pull up to see when maybe a friendship is no longer healthy? Or that we're not honoring the friendships to the best of our ability red

26:57

flags for ourselves? I don't, I think by the time we're adults, a lot of times we already have an intuition of when someone who's being deceptive. OR and NOT always, I'm not saying we can't be blindsided occasionally. But by the time we get to adulthood, we have lived through those teenage years where we probably were in some kind of friendship betrayal situation, like you learn those lessons. So that by the time you can look around and really notice, if there's something like really wrong, and I don't love the word toxic, I think it gets thrown around too much. I don't think that everybody who you don't like is toxic. But when you start to notice, like, Oh, I feel like this person isn't always telling me the truth, or I think that is more than just a red flag. Almost just one we'll set that aside of I think most of us know the difference between that and yeah, but it seems like you're asking of Oh, has this friendship run its course. Yeah. And a lot of times, it's just noticing what stage you're in. So sometimes in the motherhood game, we are just on autopilot. Again, I'm going back to that survival word of we're just like getting through the stage, getting through the holidays, getting through the toddler years getting through diapers, again, lots of joy in there, but a lot of autopilot. And we are like, it takes a while before we look up and we're like, oh, I don't have a kid in diapers anymore. Oh, like we actually can sleep a little on the weekends, or oh, we don't even notice that we have moved into the next stage until we're fully there. In the same with our friendships, noticing of what is this a friendship of, of a time period, this is just a time period and now we're moving out of that time period, or they are or we both are. And that's okay to think about that and approach that with a healthier way. Instead of feeling oh, I have to like, collect friends and hold on to all of them forever, to let like the healthiest of friendships fade if they need to, by noticing that things are changing. And it's okay, you can acknowledge it or you don't have to. It doesn't have to be a big sit down dinner about it. It's just life changing for both of us. And this happens a lot more rapidly. Like when you have kids and stuff because life's feels like it's changing all the time. There's other things that you should probably just really notice notices like my keyword of if you come home from a playdate or a dinner, or a party or an interaction and you don't feel like your best self. It did not give you energy it made you feel less competent. Somebody said something even if it wasn't directed at you, even if they weren't trying to be mean but it just didn't feel right in your spirit. When you get in the car after those times, notice how you feel. Now you might be exhausted. It might have been an exhausting day. But notice if you feel like your cup is full or if you feel a little diminished in some way. And again, it doesn't even mean the other person was like being mean to you or something. It's more just like, how does this person like energetically make me feel or this group of people? Do I feel like I belong here? Do I want to spend my afternoon this way? Again? Am I doing it out of obligation? Am I doing it for companionship, and sometimes you might be, you might come to the conclusion sitting in your car. Yeah, I'm doing this for companionship, these are actually not my people. But you know what, you've noticed it. And so then you, when that starts to fade, or when you do meet someone else, that is a different type of connection, then you're noticing that to what I just don't want women to do, what I think we so often do is to just be an autopilot, about it all and pleasing everybody, like when people pleasing. It's very well intentioned, we're trying to be fair, like you described, we're trying desperately to feel connected. And we won't acknowledge that we don't actually feel that connected to this person, or this group or whatever. As long as you're honest about it, this is what I wish for my younger self, if I had just been like, yeah, I don't know, these people don't want to go deep with me. But we're going to the park, we're going to share some goldfish crackers. This is a beautiful day, that's gonna be enough for today, I could have noticed that I was feeling a little desperate, I could have noticed that they didn't want to go deep. It could have just been a different, I could have had a different few years for myself. Yeah.

31:28

And as someone that loves those in depth, relationships, and friendships, there are certain times where I can't do that either AI and you need those other people to the point of the life counsel, for those moments that you're like, you know, I've gone deep with a lot of friends lately, I need to just stare at the slide while my kids go down in silence with each other, I don't need to have a big conversation today. And being able to have both of those friends I think is really important. But I think this all comes back to really knowing yourself too. And I think whether it's a friendship or relationship we so often hear and know that we can't have a good version of that if we're not loving ourselves, right? We can't be loved and supported by anyone if we're not doing that for ourselves. So what are some of the things that you see with the women you support and in your community, and that come into your life through this book and your podcast, they they need to take that step first because they can't get their life counsel, if they can't be like the leader of the council, right?

32:28

The biggest piece of the work that I do is about what you're asking is About going inward journaling, all of this introspective stuff is what I talk about on my own show. And in my own life, way more than just the friendship, peace is a byproduct of the relationships that we have in our life, as we notice things within ourselves. And as we really get introspective, listen to our intuition, all of these things are things that I talk about. And that is a practice. I think that most of us, even those of us, like myself, who has I have a tendency towards listening to my intuition and journaling, and all of that stuff, like that's sort of my wheelhouse. And even I can get just all wonky. I can have a weird month, a weird year, or a whole weird season where I might be journaling. But like I said, I'm on autopilot. I'm not really listening to my intuition, because I don't really like what it's saying. And I just need to get through this time. And so this is a practice, I guess, is what I mean. So whatever that means for you of sitting in stillness is something I talk about a lot. I really wish back then you don't have to full blown meditate, you don't have to, you just have to sit in stillness. And listen to your own self. Sometimes, we in our survival modes as women as moms, fill our ears with so much noise. We have always have a podcast on we always have music on there's a baby crying, we have the TV on. There's not much silence in our life. And sometimes that's by circumstance. And sometimes that's by design. And there's a core reason that we all have revelations in the shower. There's like actually, like a scientific reason. It's weird, quiet. Water. And there's like a lot of reasons but one of it is because there are no other distractions. It's just our cells are literal, naked selves. And, and we're quiet, we have some space. Yeah. I really encourage women to do that more in their life. Try and take when you're driving, even when you're just doing an errand. You're in the car for five minutes or in the car for 30 minutes. Try and drive in silence. Try it. Now that freaks people all the way out because they're like my like my favorite podcasts and please, I love listening to podcasts. I like my favorite music. I wanted to use that time to call my mom on the phone or whatever. I get it. I do all of those things. too, but just try it and see what comes up for you. Because so often, and this does dovetail back to friendship, all of our relationships. So often we are pushing down what we really think what we are ignoring, you asked about red flags earlier, like what we don't want to notice. And when we're silent, they just bubbles right on out. And so there's a lot of different practices there, I tried to drive it in the I tried to drive in my car and silence, at least a couple of times a week, I sit for five minutes in silence. You don't need to focus on your breath, or you're not doing anything, but just sitting there, I literally set the phone timer for five minutes. And I literally just sit there, you can stare out the window, you can whatever. And in five minutes, the first three minutes are usually just like my brain ticking and doing things I need to do today. All the things my brain won't settle. And then the last two minutes, not always I don't It's not like magic, because against a practice. But the last two minutes, usually something comes to the surface that I needed to hear myself on, that I'd been ignoring that I didn't even know was lurking back there. Or that needed to become a priority that I had been pushing down the list there, these little things like that, that I think get us more in touch with ourselves, like you were saying, because we cannot have good healthy, connected relationships if we are not connected to ourselves. But that's just not 100% natural, some of it has to be some actions. So those are the actions and describing and

36:37

pushing through that discomfort because if you have it at minute three, you never even got to minute four and five, where you're actually having that realization. And I have been guilty of that too. Where I'll be like this isn't working, I do something else. AI and you just didn't get there yet, you have to wait longer. And it could be that silence practice, it could be trying to make new friends, it could be really any of that, that sometimes you just have to keep trying. And you have to keep going. And I think that's really important. I can hear myself and I can hear our community saying I already have so many things I'm doing we're already busy. How can I balance, more friends are better friends AI and to have solid friendships in some of these seats. Maybe some of these seats don't need that. But we have to nurture them. Right? We have to be a good friend to if we want good friends. And we have to be a good steward to ourselves. Like we were just talking about having some of that silent time. What are some ways that you actually make this happen for yourself alongside being a business owner, being a mom all the other things that you need to do in life? Having that five minute practice is one of those things? Is there anything else that you implement on a regular basis? Journaling I know is one I'd love for you to talk about your journaling community. What are some other ways that you bring this into your life? In the book,

37:51

I write about five friendship philosophies, which they're my philosophies that I hope readers take something from, but I really encourage people to come up with their own friendship philosophies, when they're reading them, it gets their wheels turning, but one of my most important friendship philosophies is called friendship is a to do. And I I hate this one. I hate that this was one of my friendship philosophies. Because we don't need more to do. We don't need more guilt or obligation on our plate. And yet, I think that if you don't maintain some of these friendships, you're going to end up lonely. So I still old school write my to do list on a like a pad of paper, and I have a section for work to do's that need to get done. I have a section for personal family life that needs to get done. And then I have a section at the bottom called connection. And I just write down it's on my to do list because I naturally will not check on you after your surgery. I just will not. I have to write it down. It's a To Do I have to pick up my dry cleaning. I also need to be like oh yeah, I forgot. I need to check on Bri. I have to tech I have to write on my to do list text someone back email someone back. And these aren't always to do's like I don't know send someone flowers. That's like an actual literal to do. This is literally like just checking in with them, like doing the most basic friendship things. If I don't put it on my to do list because it's one of my friendship philosophies. I will go weeks and be like why do I feel disconnected? Why is why wasn't I invited to the thing and it's because I have checked myself all the way out by not checking in. And so I have to put it on my to do list. It's one of my most important friendship philosophies. There's only five of them so I guess they're all important but ya know, I

39:44

think that's great. The we talked about three buckets here personal professional and people and having one priority a day in each bucket. And that's really the same thing is knowing that you're going to check in with that person today. And it could be a text message. It could be sending flowers or stopping by their house or going out for coffee, but it also could be just a text message and reaching out to them. So I think that's great. And having those philosophies and knowing what they are for yourself and borrowing them from you or anyone else. If you're not sure what those are, I think that's really important. What are some like day to day things that you implement to care for yourself. And let's talk about the journaling group that everyone can be a part of, because checking in with a friend, great getting our work or our goals, tasks, done, our business, whatever it is great, but five minutes to ourselves, journaling, we probably need more than one thing for us, because that is what needs to come first. So being a mom of tweens, and really stepping into that season of lots of activities, I'm sure being really busy. And then also from my standpoint of having little humans that need me to function on a moment by moment basis. What are some of the ways that we can implement some of this for when we can't be quiet? So let's talk about the journaling. We have the five minute for silence, but when you can't get away, and you can't be quiet, is there anything else that you can implement to really help yourself be clear on what you need in this season? To me, all of these are like tools in my tool belt,

41:17

I don't sit in silence and journal and do connect with someone every single day, I don't do all of those things every single day, we don't have time or like the space. I tried to do a lot of those things throughout the week, sprinkled throughout the week, like sitting in silence. The journaling is a really big piece for me, because that is how I reconnect with myself. And sometimes I don't even know how I feel about a situation until I like see it on the page. But I've trained myself to do that. What I hesitate always is to tell people like oh, you should just start journaling. And then they think that there's going to be like some magic thing that's going to happen the first time they put pen to paper. And that's not true. That's not really how your mind works. I have trained myself because it is a practice to do it. The second part of your question, I think, for me, it makes a huge difference in my life in my spiritual life in the way that I'm a mom and a wife, and a creator is to feel connected to someone else. When I feel the most wonky. It's because I haven't had a good dinner with a friend. Even a phone conversation with a friend. Even like solid text exchange, can adopt your connection is all connection. Yeah, the internet friends that I mentioned earlier, the online friends that I met in my lonely years, we originally started in a Facebook group. And I could go to that, and I have other Facebook groups in my life. Now these days, I can go to Facebook groups, and it can be poopoo does like a hit of dopamine. But that is not all it is you can feel a little more connected to your community, or to like minded people online. And so going into that group and just reading some of the threads sharing your own advice, participating in some way along with seeing friends or calling a friend or whatever, just feeling connected. When I start to feel like I'm getting down on myself, as a parent, I'm picking fights with my husband, nitpicking my body or whatever. Like all the things where we can get in our heads, it usually means I'm not connected in some way. Because when you come out of a great Facebook group, or you come out of a great girls dinner or whatever, and you feel okay, I remember who I am. I remember, like why I like this community or this group of people. And I feel more like myself, this is what I'm always pointing women back to is to get closer to who they really are. Because there are so many ways that the world takes us away from who we really are. And it's not just the world. It's not always like the big bad world. Sometimes it's our hormones. Sometimes it's our lack of sleep. Sometimes it's a busy season, where we get away from where we are, I'm always trying to center us back to remember who we are. And it takes all of these practices that we're talking about and one at a time, don't feel like oh, now I have to journal and sit in silence and drive in silence and join the Facebook group is that like all the things it's that we have all these little things and noticing them from what they are. Some of us might be like, I like that Facebook group, but I've never really thought of it as something that's filling my cup next time that you're in there. Notice actually, every time I come in here, I do really like the vibe in this online group or I do really like the women in my book club or whatever and it's not all autopilot. We're noticing. Yeah,

44:50

and I think it comes back to when you said think about how you feel when you get home from that playdate or that meet up. The same thing when you get off your phone. Do you feel lit up from that? That group or are you looking for just companionship and you're scrolling? Or is it a toxic group because I think it could be any of the three, where you could be in a group that is not bringing you positivity and you need to get off, you could be in a group where you're just scrolling and zoning out. And sometimes that's okay, that's your kind of zone out play date that you had. And then you have your other group where you're like, yes, the conversation in here is so good, I feel so good leaving it. And that can happen exactly in person or that way. And just being aware, once you set your phone down, and you walk away, or you get home from that event, how are you feeling? And are you wanting more of it less of it? Or is it just a thing that's going to exist? Yes, I love that. So journaling, I agree is such a practice, it can be really difficult. I remember when I first started journaling, I read something that said, literally write on the paper, I don't know what to write. Just keep writing that until it comes up. So I want you to talk a little bit about how people can get into your world more. And by the time this airs, you'll be gearing up for your journaling for grownups, which seems like an amazing place for people to start. So how can people get enrolled tonight and join with you?

46:06

Okay, so I am launching my second annual journaling for grownups class, it launches in January, and you can sign up for it in December. And it's just a two week class that teaches you four ways to journal. So we think of journaling as being one thing, either just Dear Diary, this is how I feel today, like we have all these feelings about, again, like we talked about the friendships how well we think journaling has to be. And I have four different ways that anybody can journal, you can try all the different ways you can use all four of them. Or you can just be like, Oh, no, this is my way. And I'm going to stick to it. There really helps you have journaling as a process for personal growth, for documentation. But then I also preach that you can throw away your journals, there is no journal police, especially if you're writing something sensitive. So we talked about all these different aspects of journaling as a grown up and that it is not whatever you thought teenage girls are journaling. That's not what it looks like when we're grownups, it can be so helpful. If you're not ready for the class, or you're already in advanced journaler. I do journaling parties on Instagram pretty regularly. And I'll be doing end of the year parties if you want to join in, they're free. I do my Instagram Live at Laura dot trumaine is my handle. And they're called journal parties. But basically, I lead us through a few journal prompts. And we do them all together. And then it's like in silence. And then afterwards, like we talk through how it made us feel or if anything came up for us. It's so fun and guided journaling, like that. So what guided anything, I guess it forces you to do it. So like everyone has the greatest of intentions, like I want to do end of the year journaling. But then we don't actually end up sitting down and doing it if you come to my live and then they say if you're not able to be there live, you can watch them back to do guided journaling with someone, it really just forces you to do it. And it is awesome. So that's free that's on my Instagram. And then if you want to join the class, where we also do a lot of guided journaling, it's just two weeks long, I would love to have you can go to journaling for grownups.com.

48:11

Amazing, and we'll link all that below. I have two more questions left for you. But before we get to that, let's talk a little bit about your secret stuff, membership community and your book club. And a couple of the other ways that people can tap into your world. Okay,

48:24

so my secret stuff is in Book Club, it's all the same thing. So that's my Patreon community. And it is like my favorite place on the internet. It has a book club elements, we meet once a month on Zoom and talk about a book. But then we also do symposium. So this is a meeting, we're just all the members, there's hundreds of us. We don't not all show up for the zoom. It's not 100 people on the Zoom, but like we have a relevant topic. And it's just a way that we can talk it through. There are so many things that you want to talk about. But you don't talk about to yourself, you don't want to just listen to your favorite podcast or talk it through like you want to participate. Right. So we have symposium once a month. So every month and secret staff, we have a symposium Zoom meeting, a book club, Zoom meeting, and then I also do personal episodes, I share stuff there, because it's just a lot more intimate and unpolished than I do on my wider podcast and on social and stuff. It's just a much smaller, amazing community. This year, we had an in person gap a weekend where we all got together. It's just a really amazing group of women.

49:26

Awesome. Okay, so we talked a lot about like nurturing your current Association in finding where those people can fit in your counsel and knowing that it is sometimes a to do and that you probably have these people in your life. But what about for the person that's really craving this connection that doesn't exist yet and they need to put themselves out there to find these new friends and new people. And especially in this space where these women are going through their goals. They're really feeling ambitious in this season and they want to create a new version of themselves. What is a piece of advice that you would give to that woman or that you've experienced yourself to find your new network, because this version of you hasn't existed before.

50:08

Okay, I love this because I love a new version of ourselves mods is such a good thing. As you are moving towards the newest version of yourselves, you're going to have to put yourself out there over and over again, even if you're sticking with your old version of yourself, you are going to have to put yourself out there. A huge piece of advice that I give to women in the book, and that we talk about is to hold it all loosely. So this is where I think women get tripped up. They put themselves out there, they invite someone to get coffee, and then they like, Wait, like, it's their friendship dating for friendship marriage, like it's the same thing where they're like, okay, this person doesn't want me back, or if she declines, it's personal. I really want women to cast a wide net and hold it all loosely. assume it's not personal, assume like, some is gonna work and some is not, it's, it might have something to do with me, it might not. What we do as women, is we grip everything so tightly. And actually, that's a good instinct that we have, we want to hold on to our loved ones, we want to hold on to things that are good, this is all a really positive part of our heart. But it breaks our hearts over and over again, when we grip everything tightly. And that when especially when you're moving into a new phase, where you're trying to become a new a newer version of yourself, and you're trying to get closer to who you want to be. You have to hold some things loosely, or you're going to strangle it to death. I have done this in my own life, especially my work life where I held everything so tightly, I was so invested in it. And I cared so much about it, which are good things.

51:53

I killed it. Because I

51:57

was I just struggled all the life out of it. I just strangled it. And this happened in our relationships, too. We can hold everything so tightly, everything hurts our feelings, everything is a drama, everything needs a drawn boundary, I will do this, I won't do this. There's a lot of talk online, I think that is meant. It also comes from a good place. But it's also making us lonely about like boundaries, and toxic people and all of these sort of buzzwords that make us hold really tightly to rules that we have two ideas that we have to really hold and stand our ground. Really, we think that's a sign of strength. And the older I get, and I'm older probably than most of your listeners. But the older I get, I realized that my strength is coming from holding things loosely. I can change my mind, I can become a new version of myself, I can let friendships go. That is a stronger stance, and a more peaceful stance for me than the years when I gripped everything so tightly.

53:04

Yeah. And just knowing that what we want may come later, but we have to give it that room. Yes, right. If it doesn't have to. Yeah, the a lot of what I'm hearing from you is, it doesn't even mean that you have to let it go forever. But you aren't even giving it space to see what it could be. Because you're just holding it back so tight, I almost picture this like rope where it's like you need to give it some slack, and then see what's going to happen with it. But if you haven't so tight, you don't even have any slack in that friendship rope. Or this shows up in our relationships with our kids so often, where you got to give them a little bit of space to see if this can flourish on its own. Or maybe it's not meant to be this friendship isn't meant to be what we thought it was going to be. And if you go in with these, I see this a lot in this space of women coming in and they see a mentor or they see someone that they aspire to be friends with. And they are all in on trying to be friends with that one person and they're not nurturing their current friendships, or even realizing that maybe that person really isn't the right friend for you. But there's something about that person that you can go find in someone else. But it doesn't mean it has to be that person that you found on the internet, that's like going to be your best friend. But if that person doesn't respond the way you want it to think give it a little slack and see maybe it needs time to grow that friendship. But don't strangle it like you're saying because that person is gonna be like the desk coming back to the desperation of okay, I hear you but I don't even know you. found you on the internet. So I absolutely love that final question for you. You've accomplished some great things. You have so many moving parts in your life right now. But in this community, we're big advocates for always wanting to be the best versions of ourselves and be excited about the present as well as where we're going. So what is something that you're currently nurturing or working towards that you're really excited about that is occurring goal in your life?

54:52

tangible goals. But for me in: 2024

57:12

good. And we're here for tangible and non tangible goals. But sometimes something that feels and tangible in the moment is actually tangible in the future. Because we can look back and we can see, okay, in the moment, I didn't really know what that meant. But now a year or two from now, you may look back and be like, That's what I had to let go grip of. And that's what it meant to be expansive. And now I can see what I am measuring and tracking from the last two years. But in that moment, it was more of a feeling. And so I think we do ourselves a disservice when we think everything has to be measurable from the get go. Because we might not even know what type of system metric system we need to use to be able to track that. So I'm so excited for you, Laura.

57:51

year, my word of the year for: 2023

58:56

I am so excited. I can't wait to have you back when we can see. Okay, do we know what we're measuring? At this point? What did we expand into without having that clear sight of this is what I'm expanding into just knowing that some things have to be released and see what comes next to get space. So thank you so much for being here, Laura. It's just such a great conversation. We will link all of your book club and your community as well as your Instagram below. But everyone please go send Laura a message on Instagram at Laura dot trumaine and tell her what are your takeaways from this episode because I know there were so many thank you so much for thank you you your story and what you have to offer this world builds me up. I want to meet you join me on Instagram at this is Kelsey Smith. And let's create a ripple effect for mamas with goals together is better

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