Channeling through Art and Writing with Uma Shankari

In this episode we get curious about:

• [00:03:00] Her spiritual awakening journey
• [00:16:00] How wisdom in writing and drawing came to her
• [00:27:00] Chakras and Hinduism
• [00:32:00] Mistakes are meant to happen

To learn more about our guest:

Website: http://www.umashankari.com

FB: http://www.facebook.com/umashankariauthor

IG: https://www.instagram.com/umashankariauthor/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmskxbvLrKJptVs2dpi3sNA

Offer #1: 10% off any one piece of Uma's art (offer good thru 9/5/22!) https://umashankari.com/gallery/ Must mention CURIOUSLY WISE PODCAST to get the discount!

Offer #2: Trust in Faith or Faith in Trust PDF download of channeled message (For the first 10 people to contact her) How to get it: Email Uma at uma@umashankari.com and answer these 3 questions from the episode. 1. What year did she have her spiritual awakening? 2. How many days did it take her to write her first book? 3. What percentage of her art is nautilus shells?

Uma's Book: The Lion's Wisdom: A Channeled Text Toward Awakening Human Consciousness https://amzn.to/3cc83bD

Books mentioned in interview: Paul Selig. https://amzn.to/3ayF7KP https://amzn.to/3ceSe4g https://amzn.to/3O4P2p3

To learn more about Laurin Wittig and her work: https://HeartLightJoy.com

Copyright 2024 Laurin Wittig

Transcript here

Interview Episode with Uma Shankari

Oh, and we'll be laughing, a lot. I invite you to join in the fun as we uncover the unique wisdom we each carry within us. Ready? Let's get curious.

Welcome here to Curiously Wise. I really love meeting you and I can't wait to hear about your story. So if you could just tell us how you came from being an IT person to a channeler and an artist in this awakened life that you have. I would love to hear that journey.

Uma: First of all. Thank you for having me on the show and having me come and share my journey and my experiences. I truly appreciate everybody who is interested in learning about my story. So I was a very normal person, you know, going to IT, didn't really believe in anything. Well, I grew up spiritual because in our Indian household, it's an integral part of everything.

So what I, what happened was there was this nagging, I don't know, from where it came from, either within my own, you know, spirit or soul or from an external guide, I have no idea, but it was just nagging to go into this. Did this session with her. And I was like, okay, this is so unwind. I just don't want to do this.

So I was like, I just didn't want to do it. Then finally I said, you know what, I'm just gonna do it to prove myself that I'm right. Lo and behold, I was wrong. I did this session. And something happened within myself. She didn't check the right healing for me. And one thing led to another. I started connecting with my own higher self and I just opened up just crazy.

And, had I not had this session with this woman, I would've never read the book. So it was a channel text for the first time what channeling was, so it was a second book of the series. And I was like, you know, being someone who was so logical, I was like, no, I should read the first book.

So I, I just, I knew I wanted to read this book, but I just wanted to be clear which one I had to read. And I checked and I, I got the answer. Just you asked for this and, you know, just go ahead and read it. One thing led to another, this book was an eye opening and I brought this book back to family with, and I read the whole series with my sisters.

Laurin: Hmm.

When I left thinking that I'll come back in six months. Six months was done and I had no intention of going back. So I sent a resignation letter and I said, I'm not coming back. And here's the funny thing, right? I'm not one of those people who saves a lot of money. I made money. I traveled. Traveling was my guilty pleasure.

I quit. But that year when I quit my job. When I took the short-term visit and I came home, I thought I would be scared, but I wasn't scared. I woke up the next morning with this, just like this burden just released from my back, just washed away from my back. And I woke up with this huge smile on my face and I was like, okay, this it feels right.

Not so long ago I’m doing that workshop. And out of that doing the workshop, it became very clear to me that I needed to just look into this writing. So I came home there's the third book is about innate wisdom. I'm, I'm forgetting the name of the books, but anyway, one of the chapters, the third book is about your wisdom. So I, I pulled that chapter.

I read a little bit, I centered myself and reshow my own wisdom. And then I opened my eyes and I started just writing. I said, you know what, whatever random words are gonna come, just kind of write. So just random there was responding. And then all of a sudden I started speed writing.

Laurin: Mm.

Uma: All of a sudden I started speed writing and, in like an hour, I looked at it, there were like seven or eight pages and I read it.

It was material.

Laurin: Mm.

Like, even if we're sending emails are presented, like look at it, like office email that look at like 10 times, did I write the right thing? Like, you know, as the sort of person I am

Laurin: mm-hmm

Uma: in 21 days, I wrote 21 chapters every morning I was woken up. I would feel this tingle in one hand. And I would just wake up at somewhere between five and five 15.

I just have to keep writing. And sometimes I don't know what the next word is. I literally, I probably know the next few words, but I don't know the entire sentence. I have to keep writing just sometimes I'll be writing and I'll be like that really. And like, I'll be like, okay, just trust the process. I'll be writing.

And it just will, and there'll be times I I'll get words that I've never heard in my life. And that has happened. Yeah. That has happened to me. And I'd be like, I don't know if this word exists, then I would write it and I go check and there, of course it would be word. And sometimes one of those books, couple of words, there are ancient words that you don't use anymore in English.

I don't know what's coming next for me, the content itself is very fast.

Sometimes I'll write and I'll be like, wait that, and I'll, once I'm done, I'll read it. And I'll be like, oh my God.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah.

Uma: just, you know, because it doesn't feel like I'm writing yet I'm writing,

Laurin: Mm-hmm

Uma: you know, it's not like somebody else's take, like people have asked me, does someone take over you? Like, I'm like, no, I'm fully awake, fully available, fully present, cognizant everything is just happening.

However, what has happened to me is I have a very wide open third eye and a seven chakras.

Laurin: mm-hmm.

Uma: When I read Paul Selig’s book, my third eye and seven chakras were just wide open. So even now for me, it's, it never stops. It's always passing with energy. If I speak about it, it'll start passing

Laurin: mm-hmm

Uma: So it's something that has happened to be organically and natural.

Laurin: Yeah.

Tune to channeling. I don't want any interference. And I want to make sure that the material that I'm presenting is really from the highest code, because I am responsible for that. I can't just put out some material and it's like, and there be a discrepancy because there have been discrepancies, even in my own writing and I have to step back and, you know, kind of like, just look at it. So because of that, I'm, I'm a very, I wouldn't say cautious, I'm more really wanting to the, the material to align with the highest.

Laurin: mm-hmm

And like, I don't have that sense of urgency. Only one the one that I'm going to give free for the public, that one. That document. I wrote it in literally like a couple of hours and, and I, when I read it, because the, the material it's, so like the, there it's so poetic and I'm not a poet, you know, I can't rhyme anything when I'm talking at all.

Like, I'm such a different person when I'm writing, compared to what I'm just talking. And I'm just talking, if you ask me to just say something, or like kinda something rhymes at and like that, I can’t do it. So , it's sort of like, I'm the same person, but I'm not, but something happens when I'm writing or drawing.

Laurin: right. I, I do the, a similar kind of thing pretty regularly after I meditate. I like to talk to my guides and I do it either longhand or sometimes on the computer. And I just pose a question and then whatever comes through, I write down and I just keep asking questions if they come up and, and then just letting it flow.

And I'm always surprised when I go back and read it afterwards. It's not my voice. It's not the syntax I would use. It's not the word choices. It's often more formal than I speak. And I know because of that change because of that difference, that it's real. That it's true. But I'm, I, when I first started doing it and I was like, this is crazy weird, but the voice was so clearly not me.

I have written books, I'm a published novelist, but I use it as a tool for myself quite often and also for my clients. And it's really fascinating to channel. It's just like, but I also understand your hesitance to bring things out without that urgency to it, sometimes you receive things and it's like, you're receiving them now because it's a good time for you to receive them.

But it's not yet time. The time is I like to use the word ripe, R I P E the time isn't ripe for it to go out into the world yet.

Uma: Yeah.

Laurin: And so I totally understand that, that idea of receiving it, but not having any urgency to bring it out yet.

Uma: Yeah.

Laurin: so that's very cool.

Laurin: Oh, okay. So let's, let's talk about your art. I've seen a little bit of it in, on some videos. And it's beautiful. It's amazing. And I, I can tell just by looking at it that there's way more there than meets the eye is I don't know if that's the right way to say it. So tell us about the process and, and what I, cuz it's a lot of symbology and, and just, I, I don't know.

It's just beautiful, but tell us about that, and maybe why you're receiving it.

Uma: You know the question of the why is not something I'm really prod into, like after being on this journey, when you are check browser open, you're tapping into the infinite, when you're tapping into the infinite, you know, anything is possible. What, when I started this journey, I used to ask a lot of, oh my God, why, what now?

And what happened is I'm also into very healthy eating. And I had a friend of mine who was a big meat and Potato eater, never believed in anything vegetarianism or anything. For me, I'm a vegetarian by choice. And, and also I grew up in an Indian household where thisS vegetarian was not unheard of. So it comes to my home and he's like very hesitant to eat and he eats and his eyes go like, like, you know, wide open.

And I, and so I was publishing my book and like, you know, I was going to order food from outside because I ran a food business for three years. And he's like, you should cook for your book launch. And I'm like, you gotta be crazy. There are 50 60 people coming, but I, I can cook for pretty 200 people, but like, it, it, he talked to me on a Friday and my book launch was Tuesday.

Laurin: Wow.

Uma: And all vegan food, just a huge spread of, and I, I worked by myself in my kitchen. I just had one person helping. So when I went to my book launch, people just couldn't stop talking about the food.

And I, so like, I'm, I'm like, oh great, thank God I, I need it. You know, but what happened afterwards was so fascinating. There was this lady who came to me and said, can you cook for me? And I was like, you know, I looked at her and I'm like, okay. She was like, can you make me meals?

You know, I was thinking about it, but I was like, okay, I'll do it for you.

So what happened was when I was cooking for her, I was not really cooking. I would go into the zone of just like creating, I would get into just, just like, I would just be making this, I would get an idea and I would just start there and, you know, like I just kept going and, like when you're

I was in that zone for like probably a month, just literally for a whole month. I did it, like, just buy this, like I was just playing with it. And what happened was just being in that, you know, it's such a, it's very hard to explain, but it was such a meditative state for me, it just doing it brought me so much joy and just backing it and sending it to her.

And she would just give, come and give me this fabulous feedbacks about like, oh my God, your food is so amazing. So it was like, but it was not the cooking. It was just the love, the healing, like, you know, the, what you wanted to give for humanity. Everything was like one. Right after that, what happened was this openness happened for, so on November, Ninth.

I, it didn't occur to me like, you know, so I, I woke up and I started writing, but I, the first or second chapter, when I wrote, I heard that I was going to channel codes and they explained to me what a code is and I got five terminologies or words that I knew were real and existed, but I didn't know what they were and you're gonna laugh. It was, metaverse not the metaverse from Facebook

Laurin: mm-hmm

Uma: metas, meta being, it was just like several meta meta metaverse. And, but I heard that I was gonna download codes.

So I'm gonna finish the book. Then I can think about it.

Laurin: Mm-hmm.

Uma: On December 21st or 22nd, I finished the book I take a notebook with trepidation. I sit and I'm like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm just so scared. You know, I, I've never done downloaded in codes. So what happened is the word was metadata.

And then I put my hand and I started drawing all these symbols.

one of my friends they're all like wanted physicists and I showed it to them and they did some research came back and they said this light language. So I went in type light language. I took that and I compared it with mine. It was exactly the same,

Laurin: Wow.

Uma: like almost identical.

Laurin: Uhhuh.

Uma: I just kept doing and it kept evolving.

I drew like four diagrams, all very musical in nature in an hour.

Laurin: Mm-hmm

Uma: The thing about my work is I, I do things very fast. I don't think it's just like, it is just like I take, I'm done, you know, something like that on June 2nd, I knew I had to draw it on black paper. Don't ask me how I know it.

It's, you know, people say it's annoying it's almost like, if you wanna have a glass of water, you don't say, I know I need to get, it's just like you get up. And you know, for me, my entire art artwork was like that. I just got up. I knew what paper I needed, I knew what kind of pens I needed.

And I started drawing.

Laurin: Oh, no,

Uma: And, you know, then it kept evolving and evolving. And I, I, I just, you know, there's one art you can see in the back. That's one of the artwork, so it just kept evolving. And then I go to the store and I'm not a trained artist. I have never drawn in my life. I don't know how to use paint brushes.

Laurin: mm-hmm

Uma: I, I don't know how to use paints. Like I don't know what, I didn't know. There was something called and there's something called oil color. I have no idea. I, so then as the word kept evolving, I would just go to those stores and say, I want this kind of weight. So yeah, we have it. And then I would say, I need this kind of pen. And I would say, do you have this kind of glitter?

Laurin: Mm-hmm

Uma: And I it's so funny. Like, you know, I tell people afraid, I only love it. Can you get past the beauty of it and see through it? And people get very agitated about it. They're like, why would you say that? You know, it's so beautiful, but I'm trying to convey something.

Laurin: Mm-hmm

Uma: And what it is is it's a portal to the customers.

Laurin: oh, wow.

Uma: So people have to come out of that, you know, they get hooked. But what happens is I, I tell people this a lot and even the most evolved spiritual people have a hard time with it.

Laurin: Mm-hmm

Uma: Can you set aside all of that and just be with the image and let the vibrations in the image get through to you?

It's the most difficult thing

Laurin: Yeah.

Uma: Because you have to really be at the receiving, just not do anything and still receive it. And

Laurin: feels almost like you would meditate with it.

Uma: Yeah. That’s it. You, you just have to sit with it.

Laurin: Yeah. There, there used to be, when my kids were little, there were these 3D books that got printed, where if you looked at it, it didn't make any sense. But if you relaxed your eyes and just allowed the focus to change on its own, you would suddenly see this whole world come alive.

Uma: Would you like to see one of them?

Laurin: I would love to, yes, please.

Uma: This is my latest work.

Laurin: Oh goodness. Oh, wow. That's beautiful. So for those who are only hearing this. You'll have to go to the video when it's published to see it. Cuz it's just beautiful. It reminds me of a Nautilus shell or the circle of time or there's just so many and I'm immediately drawn to the middle of the spiral.

Just like that's where I want to go. Oh, that's beautiful.

Uma: So almost all my work is Nautilus shell. About 90% of my work is Nautilus shell.

Laurin: Hmm

Laurin: mm-hmm

Uma: What happened was when I came back to India. Every single temple has a Nautilus shell, every single day to you have a scene has a, nautilus shell. So what it is is it's a morphogenic consciousness field that is within the nautilus shell. So it also has the, it has a frequency of 7.83 quarts, which is the same as the frequency of the sound home and the same as a frequency with which the, the earth is spinning the, the sound that the earth makes.

Laurin: Mm-hmm

Uma: So every work of mine is a nautilus shell, and there is a particular frequency in that. And I haven't done any research on that. The only thing I did was gave it to a very renowned remote viewer to just take a look at it.

Laurin: yeah.

Uma: And my younger sister who passed away a couple of months ago, she was able to hear sound harmonics and a few people have come back and said, they've some heard sound harmonics. So the, the artwork is about the sound harmonics that carries and the cosmic energy that it has.

And, you know, it's, it's, we have to really break the limitation and just be open to something beyond what we have experienced because spirituality can become a limitation and, and to really break that limitation of spirituality and just be open to just learning a little bit more. And what I did was within two months of drawing, I had, I, so as I was drawing.

People were like able to feel things in their body. They could, some people were not spiritual. They said one person came and said, I feel something here. I was like, you know,

Laurin: Yeah, that's a good thing.

Uma: Is it normal? I'm like, yeah, anything is, you know, it is normal actually, but you know,

Laurin: yeah.

Uma: So, so I, I haven't really done a full fledge spiritual healing for people because me, myself, I'm, it's sort of like, you know, you are giving, you are given a new technology to use

Laurin: mm-hmm

Uma: and nobody else has used it.

So you had to be really careful and make sure everything is you know, you understand things before you just go and test on people, you know? So I'm, so I'm sort of in that, in the place of like, you know just sort of like really coming to a good understanding of my work before just saying people, this will just heal you.

So, you know, that's, that's the thing. So I have, I also

Laurin: I just wanna share with you just looking at that picture for just what 30 seconds or so I can feel a heart opening happening. I mean, it's, it's very powerful I can feel it spinning and I can feel it growing, which is kind of amazing, cuz you know, you're in India and I'm here in Virginia and just looking at it for a few moments. Has already has already, I, I mean, it's kind of making me teary cuz it just feels so lovely. Yeah. It's it's I I'm gonna have to get some.

Laurin: mm-hmm

Uma: And, you know, even today I can't explain what that is. And I usually I would sit and I wouldn't be like, oh, this is what I, you know, a normal artist.

They have a frame of reference. I don't have any.

Laurin: yeah.

Uma: So they come with an understanding what they wanna draw. For me that doesn't exist, for me, I'm coming and I'll be like, okay, I, I don't know what I'm gonna get today, you know? And I just have to go over the flow. And what's fascinating is when I used to draw.

I would be thinking that the line is going this way and something would happen and the line would go this way. Either I, something I would hit the table or something would happen.

Laurin: Oh,

Uma: And that was how it was supposed to go. And I would be like using a paint and it would spill. And I wouldn't be like, oh my God, what happened?

It's a pattern that we have created for ourselves. And this mistake is something that's in every artwork. A lot of my artwork, they're not precise at all. So I, I don't use a lot of tools. So this particular artwork mostly is by hand.

Laurin: mm-hmm

Uma: There are some lines I drew, but even those lines, I didn't use them.

And I don't use any tools to draw them. The, the Nautilus shells is hand drawn.

Laurin: Okay. Wow.

Uma: They're not, they look very precise, but are, they're not actually precise, but it, it gives you an illusion of this, this you know, this precision that doesn't exist.

Laurin: Yeah, I think I saw that one. Yeah.

Uma: You see how precise it is? But its not precise at all. So I didn't measure anything at all. The lines are not equally space at all, but it gives you an illusion of precision.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. I see the music in it too.

Uma: It’s very musical in nature. Yes. and also only the lines were drawn with a scale. But if you look at this side, they're very evenly spaced and precise, but I it's all hand drawn freehand. So this is one of my earlier drawings when I just began to draw. So this is the one I showed you when I drew this particular one.

Laurin: Mm-hmm

Uma: And I was so sad because I was like, I can't reproduce this and I don't think I can draw anything like this ever again. And, and I'll be honest with you till to this day.

I don't think I, I can't reproduce any of my artwork.

Laurin: Huh?

Uma: Give it to me a mistake. Can you reproduce that? I can't do it.

Laurin: That's cuz you're doing it channeled

Uma: yeah, so for example, a good example for me is once in a blue moon, I will get an artwork that flashes in front of my eyes. It just flash, but I don't have the time to understand what the whole thing was, but I won't sit and try to recollect it.

So it's kind of this very interesting phenomenon that can’t be explained by words, or even by myself at all.

Laurin: I love how open you are to just really let whatever wants to flow through you flows through you. I know that I, at times I resist that and I don't do it on purpose it's fear or ego, or, but, you know, I've worked a lot to, to release that, but you are so wide open to accept and receive, and it's just beautiful.

And you can see that it's, I mean, you are, you are a pure channel, I would say.

Uma: Thank you. Thank you. I Laurin, I think I, I my acceptance is not because I'm unique. I think because I'm doing something, you, you are a novelist, right. You're a novelist and then you're writing it. Right. So there is certain, there is the, the, the similarity background exists.

I don't allow a lot of things, even in my spiritual world so this is one of the reasons why I'm able tell it truly,

Laurin: yep.

Uma: I don't have any frame of preference and people have looked at my art and someone came and said, me, you know, this is Kind of like Mexican, what's that, there are names for certain art, the certain kind of words, they'll say, oh, this is that.

And I'm like, oh, so whatever I'm doing already exists in the universe and in the world. And I'm just like, just one day I wake up and I start like, drawing. I, I heard like in the past that there was this guy who never knew how to play a piano one day he just woke up and he started playing.

I'm one of those people.

Laurin: yes.

Laurin: Right. Right. And that was my experience with my healing work is that it was just suddenly I realized I could sense chakras. That's where it started, in myself and then in other people. And then I learned to kind of work with them, but totally intuitively were guided, you know? So that's that's for me, that's where I get that total joy, because I call myself, I work like kind of like a jazz musician.

I've taken some classes now, but it's like, I use this and then, oh, I, oh, I, I, this is what I need right here. And then I'll pull this in and, you know, and it's like, and then I do something completely that I've never done before and, you know, before. So I think that's where I'm in that, that flow state that you're talking about.

And it's, and it brings me so much joy when I get to do that kind of work for people. So yeah,

Uma: yeah.

Uma: Okay,

Laurin: And and then we'll get you

Uma: to see some more artwork or you good?

Laurin: You know what, show us another one. Oh, wow. That one's pretty cool too. Oh, see, I could just stare at these, just sink into it. That's beautiful. Yeah. I like the black background because it feels like you could just sink into it, you could just pass into.

Uma: So

Laurin: Oh, wow. that's an excellent one. It, that one looks 3D to me as you move it around, it looks very 3D.

It's very interesting.

Uma: it is a, it is a multidimensional image.

Laurin: is it okay,

Uma: So you can hang these images any whichever way you want. So they don't have a direction, they have layers of layers. And so it has a lot of layer into it. Sure.

Laurin: Oh, that's really interesting. I'm I am just mesmerized by these things. These are

Laurin: Wow. Yeah.

Laurin: Mm-hmm oh, I love the stars in that one. That one also looks very 3D it's. Wow.

Uma: they're all very thorough.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. Just beautiful. So again, for those who are just listening, this will be out on video eventually. Ugh. And they are beautiful. And, and she's gonna tell us where you can go and see more of them too. Yeah, they move. It's really interesting.

I mean, I know that you're not holding it perfectly

Uma: I call them, they do move. Actually I call them kinetic, because they have a movement. To be honest with you, I think there's a lot more to my images than what I have explored. And I also wanna be careful who I give these images to. I can’t just give it to everybody.

Uma: yeah,

so I usually

Laurin: I’m so happy to see these well, thank you for sharing those with us, cuz they're really beautiful and, and we will get her to let us know where her website is and stuff in a few minutes. And that'll all be in the show notes too. Of course. Including your book. So rapid fire, these are just real quick.

I ask all my guests the same questions. I don't know what I'm gonna do with them yet.

Uma: Okay.

Laurin: but I they're just kind of fun. So the first question is who is, or was the wisest person in your life?

Uma: My sister,

Laurin: The one that passed?

Uma: my younger sister. Yeah.

Laurin: All right. Can you tell us why she was so wise?

She knew I wouldn’t listen. She waited nearly. Six seven years before she told me what happened. And I asked her why she didn't tell me. She said, you wouldn't have listened to me, even if I told you so, you know, so that, and also she was the reason I got married. I'm 49 and I, she, before she passed away, she made sure I got married and later she was gone.

So yeah, she means a lot to me.

Laurin: she's still watching over you. I can feel her. Yeah. Lovely. All right. What's your favorite self-care practice?

Uma: Yoga in the morning.

Laurin: Okay. That's a lot. I, I hear that one a lot. It's I I'm, I love yoga. I'm not good at doing it on my own. So one of the things I wanna improve. What lights you up when you're feeling down?

Uma: My husband,

Laurin: Hmm.

So yeah.

Laurin: Good! Your husband. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And do you have a favorite mantra or affirmation?

Uma: Yes. The Gayatri mantra. Have you heard of it?

Laurin: I don't think so.

Uma: The Gayatri mantra is a sourceful mantra in the ancient Indian tradition. The, the Gayatri mantra is about the quasar, which is which is trillion times more powerful than the sun. And it is, it is the one that gives prana to earth, which is life force to earth.

Laurin: Could you say that one for us?

Uma: Gayatri mantra.

Laurin: Gayatri mantra. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Tell us where we can find you online.

Uma: Okay, you can find me at www.umashankari.com. My website is not yet completely a business oriented. So if you see something you like it email me, I'll give 10% off. Until until this the month when you build the episode goes live, just let me know the whole month. I'll get a, give a 10 off for those who order an image from the website.

The email is best. Shoot me an email. I always check my email.

Laurin: Good. Good to know. All right. this has been fascinating. And the images, I, again, if you're listening to this and not seeing it, we will be bringing this out on video eventually. I don't know when exactly we'll add that to the show notes eventually. But it's an, it's an evolving process here.

But there're amazing. And I know that you do have a few of them up on your website cause I saw some of them there. And I think you also have videos on YouTube. I was looking at.

Uma: yes. My husband he puts uh, videos on YouTube. There are some of them on YouTube as well.

Laurin: So that's, it's fascinating. So you can find her on, on YouTube as well. Again, we'll put that in the show notes.

All right. It's been, this has been lovely. Thank you so much for joining me here today and to the listeners. Thank you for joining us in this amazing conversation. And I hope that you'll return next Tuesday for the next episode of Curiously Wise.

Please head over to my website. www.heartlightjoy.com. Curiously Wise is a team effort. I am grateful for the skill and enthusiasm, Arlene Membrot, our producer and Sam Wittig, our audio engineer bring to this collaboration. Our music is Where the Light Is by Lemon Music Studio.