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Public Views on Race: Analysis and Discussion
Episode 141 • 28th May 2024 • TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective • TonyTidbit ™
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Episode Audio Link: https://podcast.ablackexec.com/episode/public-views-on-race-analysis-and-discussion

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In this episode of 'A Black Executive Perspective' podcast, hosted by Tony Tidbit, the

conversation centers around Michele Norris’s book, 'Our Hidden Conversations:

What Americans Really Think About Race and Identity. Tony, joined by producer

JJ Dionisio explores race-related perspectives collected on postcards from over half a

million Americans. The episode discusses the importance of understanding,

empathy, and communication regarding race, highlighting various personal

stories and reflections shared throughout the book. Additionally, Dr. Nsenga

Burton addresses dominant ideologies and recent sexist comments by Kansas City

Chiefs player Harrison Butker. The show underscores the necessity of confronting

and discussing racial issues openly.


▶︎ In This Episode

00:00: Introduction and Host's Background

00:25: Podcast Overview and Special Thanks

01:10: Shoutout to Partners and Personal Anecdotes

02:12: Introduction to Michele Norris's Book

03:50: Exploring Michele Norris's Insights on Race

07:44: The Postcard Project: Gathering Thoughts on Race

09:11: Reading and Reflecting on Postcard Responses

19:43: Reflecting on Childhood Regrets

20:15: Personal Stories on Race and Identity

23:06: Understanding Different Perspectives

25:10: Insights from Michele Norris's Book

31:54: Generational Shifts in Views on Race

33:30 Weekly: Spotlight Need to Know: Dominant Ideologies

41:14 Tony's Tidbit: Embracing LESS

43:02: Closing Remarks and Call to Action

🔗 Resources

Links and resources mentioned in this episode:


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This episode was produced by TonyTidbit ™ . Copyright © 2024 A BLACK EXECUTIVE PERSPECTIVE LLC. All rights reserved. No part of this podcast may be reproduced without prior written permission. For permissions, email podcast@ablackexec.com .

Transcripts

Tony Tidbit:

Jordan from Lakeland, Florida.

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No, I did not swim here.

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I'm Cuban and Arabic.

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And anytime I tell somebody that, they

ask me if I'm a terrorist or if I swam

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here, especially since I live in Florida.

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We'll discuss race and how it plays a

factor and how we didn't even talk about

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this topic, because we were afraid.

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BEP Narrator: A

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black executive perspective,

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Tony Tidbit: welcome to a black executive

perspective podcast, a safe space where

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we discuss all matters related to race,

especially race in corporate America.

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I'm your host, Tony tidbit.

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So today I am at, as you can see, W N H U.

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88.

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7 on the Richter dial at

the University of New Haven.

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So again, I want to thank the University

of New Haven for allowing a Black

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Executive Perspective podcast to come in

and promote our message in their studio.

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So I'm here with our

favorite producer, JJ.

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Hey,

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JJ Dionisio: hey, hey.

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What's

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Tony Tidbit: up, buddy?

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How you doing?

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JJ Dionisio: Doing great.

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It's been,

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Tony Tidbit: go ahead.

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What are you going to say?

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JJ Dionisio: I'm just saying,

I'm excited that you're back.

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I'm excited that we're Back together.

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Tony Tidbit: Ah, have

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JJ Dionisio: a

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Speaker: lovely conversation today.

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Tony Tidbit: I love it.

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I love it.

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And we're definitely gonna

have a lovely conversation.

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So number two, I wanna,

you know, give a shout out.

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Make sure you check out our

partners Code M Magazine.

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All right.

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Their website is uh, code m magazine.com.

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Again, their mission is saving the Black

family, by first saving the black man.

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So they have a lot of great content.

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I'm pretty sure you're going to enjoy it.

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So check them out.

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And then today is a,

is a, uh, special day.

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I got to play, pay homage to my

wife, uh, my wife for Easter.

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Believe it or not.

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I usually do you get gifts on Easter?

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JJ Dionisio: Ah, when I was like

a kid, like I'd have like a little

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basket that my parents would do, but

I do see sometimes my parents will

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get each other things on Easter.

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It's just a nice little, like,

here's a day that, that we can

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use to like show a bit of love.

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Tony Tidbit: Look,

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anytime somebody's going to give me a

gift on any day, I don't care what day

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it could be, you know, Ash Wednesday.

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All right.

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I'll take it.

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I just never, you know, but whatever.

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I always got bunnies and chocolate,

but my wife gave me this book,

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uh, Our Hidden Conversation.

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What we say about race by Michele

Norris and you know, I was captivated

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number one I said, thank you number

two as I was going through this.

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It just blew me away So I wanted to

you know, come on and talk about some

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of the things That I've learned by

reading this book, and I'm pretty

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sure you're going to Enjoy it as well.

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So like I said today We're gonna be

sharing examining Selected passages from

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Michele Norris's Our Hidden Conversations.

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Her book explores the intricate and

frequently unvoiced discussions about

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race in America through a blend of

personal stories and sharp analysis.

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Michele reveals the complex details

and significant forces behind racial

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conversations in our daily lives.

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The book urges readers to ponder.

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They're personal encounters and promote

transparent, sincere dialogues on

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race, identity, and comprehension.

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A little bit about Michele.

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Some of you may know she's on

NPR's All Things Considered.

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Before NPR, she worked at NBC, ABC

News, and also contributed to top

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publications like the Washington

Post and Los Angeles Times.

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She was honored as Journalist of the

Year by the National Association of Black

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Journalists in 2009, and she received

an Emmy and a Peabody Award, and also

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was recognized by Essence and Ebony, uh,

for her influential presence in media.

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And you might've seen her on

certain shows like Meet The Press.

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So look, why don't we jump into

this and get an understanding

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a little bit more about Michele

and why she started this book,

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Stephen Colbert: Michele Norris.

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It's called our hidden conversations.

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What Americans really think

about race and identity, which

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is over a decade in the making.

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How did this start?

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Michele Norris: It started with postcards.

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I wrote a book about my family's

very complex racial legacy.

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I was going out on a 35 city book tour.

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And I thought no one

wanted to talk about race.

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I thought people would rather eat

their toenails than talk about race.

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Tony Tidbit: And you know what?

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That is true, right?

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We, we have never talked about race

at all, um, from the beginning.

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So I can definitely see why

she thought that I'm going to

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provide a little bit more detail.

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So I have her book here.

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Uh, and, and this is what she said,

she said, "more than a decade ago,

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I set out to write a book about how

Americans talk and think about race.

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The rise of Barack Obama's political

fortunes at the time was the beginning

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to shift how the nation saw itself.

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The changes were both

intense and highly nuanced.

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Tea party followers in the Uncle Sam

costumes began taking to the streets

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and screaming, I want my country back.

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Latino voters met anger with anticipation,

marching for immigration reform with

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signs in the air and hope in their hearts.

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Black voters quite literally

wore pride on their shoulders.

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Barack to the future t

shirts were on back order.

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America's demographics were shifting.

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A nation built on a foundation

of white supremacy was heading

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towards a majority minority status.

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In popular media, this was heralded

as progress, but in private spaces

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and quiet conversations, this shift

was also met with dread and anxiety.

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After all, if you paid any

attention to how minorities have

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been treated in this country over

centuries, you might reasonably be

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concerned about becoming one too.

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And demographic change was just a jolt

and amid a ripple of seismic shocks

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because it was happening alongside

so many other cultural shifts.

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Economic turmoil, technology upheaval.

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Global conflict, the normalization of

gay marriage and the widening and embrace

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and celebration of LGBTQ plus life.

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The centering of Latino language and

culture, a warming climate, unapologetic

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white nationalism, growing diversity

in advertising and entertainment.

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And of course, the constant

stream of videos captured the

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killing of black Americans

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by police and would be vigilantes.

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All this was amplified, exaggerated,

or ingested through social media

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platforms that seemed to fertilize

the most fetid of human emotions,

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anger, umbridge, Envy, Shame, or

Fear, all of it added to Vertigo.

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I wanted to chronicle the visible

changes in the United States, but more

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than that, I wanted to somehow capture

the subtle, subterranean, shifts.".

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So there's a lot going on, right?

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And think about all the things that she

talked about was going on that timeframe

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and why she wanted to find out more

about what people thought about race.

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So let's see how she

got this off the ground.

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Michele Norris: And so I thought I

need an invitation for people to enter

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this conversation, but I went to the

local print shop in my neighborhood

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and I printed up 200 cards and I

started leaving them everywhere I went.

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Stephen Colbert: Like, just

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like, you would leave it at a coffee

shop, or you would Leave it at

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Michele Norris: the sugar

station, at the Starbucks.

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Yeah.

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Leave it in a Bible at a hotel.

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Leave it in the little, little

pocket in back of an airline.

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Leave it in the kiosk at a restaurant.

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Leave it on a seat.

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Stephen Colbert: And what would it say?

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Michele Norris: They, postcards

all said, Race, your thoughts,

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six words, please send.

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Pretty early, people were already starting

to pack a lot into just six words.

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Saying things like I'm only

Asian when it's convenient,

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white, not allowed to be proud.

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Stephen Colbert: How many

ultimately did you end up getting?

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Michele Norris: We have archived

more than 500, 000 and, and

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we are getting more that come.

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And

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most of them, I should say, most of them

come in digitally now through the website.

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Tony Tidbit: So think about that, right?

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Sending out, just taking postcards and

just leaving them all over the place.

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And then just saying, give me six

words on your thoughts about race.

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And all of a sudden you end up

getting 500, 000 responses from

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people all over the country.

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Right.

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Where in beginning she thought that

nobody would ever want to talk about race.

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So let's do this.

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JJ, why don't you and I, cause I, and

look, I'm going to tell you flat out,

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um, this is a book you should get.

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And just to be clear here, we,

we don't have no association.

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We're not getting any commission

or anything like that.

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But I think it's very powerful.

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To be able to see people from all

over the country, able to leave

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their thoughts when it comes to race.

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And when I was like, um,

what's the word I want to use?

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I won't say shocked, but I was

fascinated by reading all the different

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thoughts from all different people.

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And you know what?

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As I was going through it, I

was learning a lot as well.

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Because, you know, a lot of times

we talk about our own situations and

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we don't think about, you know, The

other points of view or perspectives

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from other individuals as well.

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So JJ, are you good for that, man?

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Yeah,

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JJ Dionisio: I'm great for that.

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Tony Tidbit: Okay.

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So why don't we go back and forth?

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You start with one, then

I'll start with one.

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Okay.

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JJ Dionisio: All right.

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So I have Melanie from Las Vegas, Nevada,

who says, yes, I have my green card.

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Tony Tidbit: Okay.

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Michele Taylor from Nashville,

Tennessee says, pay no attention

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to attention to my packaging.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, an anonymous

person from Spokane, Washington

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says, I'm a redneck, not a racist.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, somebody from

Gingerville, Michigan says

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You are unique like everyone

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JJ Dionisio: else.

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Uh, Talia from Boulder, Colorado

says, Indo Pak American.

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Sounds like camping gear.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, Brandy

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from Chicago, Illinois.

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I constantly was asked, what are you?

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Or are you mix?

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Nope.

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I'm black and albino.

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It's a fascinating existence.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, Nathan

from Tempe, Arizona.

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I don't know if that's pronounced right.

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I don't know.

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Uh, says, why can't

they pick normal names?

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Yes.

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Tony Tidbit: Um, uh,

Brad from Downington, PA.

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We won't make it like this.

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JJ Dionisio: Amber from, uh,

Shemokin, Pennsylvania says,

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Separate only your laundry by color.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, James McRae

from Hemet, California.

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I'm not a criminal, statistic, or failure.

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And then he reads, he wrote this.

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I am not what society has labeled me.

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I am not a criminal because I

am so called African American.

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I am not a statistic because I grew

up in a single parent household.

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Studies suggest that when a young black

boy grows up without a father in the

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home, chances are he will get in trouble

with the law at an early age, drop out of

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school, and be defiant towards his mother.

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By the way, I did not do any of these.

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I am not a failure.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, Jeff from

Glendale, California says there

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will always be a quote they.

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Tony Tidbit: Robert Franklin

from Denver, Colorado.

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No, no relation.

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My world told me I'm black.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, Eve from

Hollandale, Minnesota says

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should be Black Lives Matter too.

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Tony Tidbit: Bob from San

Diego, San Jose, California.

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When will race not matter anymore?

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JJ Dionisio: A mandolin from

Oakland, California says.

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Bullies grow up, black boys die.

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I'm mixed, I'm, I'm mixed,

black and white, and I often

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feel like I don't belong.

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Both sides have shown

me beauty and ugliness.

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Tony Tidbit: Brandon from

Portsmouth, Virginia.

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Be twice as good as everyone.

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Sometimes as an African American, I feel

as I have to work twice as hard to top

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white people in order to achieve success.

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JJ Dionisio: Ryan from Kowota,

oklahoma says, anti racist

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is a code for anti white.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, Paul from Houston, Texas

says, sag your pants, lose your chance.

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Whether right or wrong, the

impressions we make on others play

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a big part in how others treat us.

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JJ Dionisio: Bobby from

Baltimore, Maryland says, pro

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black doesn't mean anti white.

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Uh,

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Tony Tidbit: JB, no, GB from

Charlottesville, Virginia, there

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is some truth in stereotypes.

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, Deb from Tucson, Arizona.

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Says need a fork can't use chopsticks.

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Yes.

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I am quote from somewhere born

in Korea adopted as an infant

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Three weeks old to be exact.

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Yes.

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Most of my family is white Yes, I

grew up on a farm in Iowa and have

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driven a tractor and a combine.

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Yes, I'm adopted.

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Yeah, I like Asian food, Mexican food too.

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No, I don't remember anything about Korea.

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Um No, I don't speak Korean.

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No, I don't know who my

biological parents are.

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No, I'm not really curious about it.

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And no, I can't use chopsticks.

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So give me a fork and don't make any

assumptions about who you think I am.

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Or how you think I should act or be.

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Tony Tidbit: Uh, Shanna

Blackwell from Chicago says,

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Who decides when you're over it?

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Who decides when people who have

experienced inequality should

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get over those experiences?

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Are

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JJ Dionisio: they yours?

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Are you sure?

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Adam Connor from Washington, D.

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C.

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said.

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My sister and I are both

adopted from South Korea.

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Our parents are white.

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One of my memories from childhood is

being at a grocery store and constantly

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having people ask my mom, Are they yours?

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As they would, uh, to my sister and me.

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I remember one time, someone

then adding, Are you sure?

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As if my mom was going to look over and

realize, Whoa, these kids are Asian.

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Thank you stranger in a grocery

store for pointing that out to me.

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Tony Tidbit: Oh man, uh, um,

Michele Welch, uh, in Maryland.

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I'm relieved my son looks white.

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I'm a biracial white, I'm

biracial white and Pakistani.

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I look Pakistani, my husband is white.

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You My son is big, blonde, fair

skinned, blue eyed toddler.

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We live in an affluent,

largely white town.

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I'm grateful he will never be asked

about his nationality, be the diversity

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hire, or live with an identity crisis.

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Is that wrong?

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To want life to be easier for

your children, even if it seems

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like it's a step backward?

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, someone from

Brooklyn, New York said, Adopted.

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How much did she cost?

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White mom and Chinese daughter

said right in my face with my

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five year old daughter in my lap.

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She clutched me, buried her

face in my chest, and sobbed.

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I put my arms around her and

said, don't be disrespectful,

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and walked out of the shop.

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Tony Tidbit: Randy, Gilbert, Arizona.

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White guy, black church, met wife.

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At the end of a failed marriage, I

explained my love of gospel music.

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My first record purchase was Bobby

Blue Bland when I was 7 years old.

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To our marriage counselor, he made me go

to a black church as part of my recovery.

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That led me to be open to the

possibility of dating a black woman.

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I met Rose on Match.

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com and we have been gloriously

married for 12 years.

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JJ Dionisio: Shelly says, Two

black lesbian daughters say what?

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Uh, after the initial shock of their

coming out, I realized that they are,

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uh, the long search for the fruits

of my:

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So, when I see the economic travesties

in our community, after I pledged on

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campus 40 years ago to give 10, 000

it all the help, uh, to give it all

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the, all, sorry, after I pledged on

campus 40 years ago to give it, to

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give my all to help to end my people's

suffering and we will suffer still.

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I think of my daughters and

realize their courage is that long

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awaited fruit no matter how small,

the piece out of the whole pie.

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Tony Tidbit: Alice

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from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

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I'm lucky I don't look Jewish.

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Now that I'm incognito as a Jew, having

the last name Swenson, when people do find

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out they do say this from time to time.

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It bums me out every time.

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What does a Jew look like?

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Like me?

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This is such a backhanded compliment.

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I never know what to say.

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Thank you.

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How dare you?

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JJ Dionisio: Uh, David from New York

says, Gay, but at least I'm white.

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Someone once told me in, in

conversation that even though

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I was gay, at least I'm white.

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As if I wasn't allowed to feel oppression

and struggle because white trumped gay.

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There's another side to it, I know.

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In some ways, it can be

harder to be gay and black.

346

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But I'd rather not bring the

race card into the gay community.

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Tony Tidbit: Frank

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from Knoxville, Tennessee.

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If you are black, you'll know.

350

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I have a good fishing buddy friend.

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I'm white and he's black.

352

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One day I was driving on the interstate

through the center of town and he said

353

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to me, The speed limit on this stretch

of the interstate is 55 miles per hour.

354

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I was driving 65 miles per hour

and was completely surprised.

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I said that I had lived here all

my life and did not know that.

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He said, if you were black, you will know.

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JJ Dionisio: Emery from

Milwaukee says, I don't fit.

358

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Don't look closely.

359

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My whiteness is always sidelined when

people learn about my lesbian moms.

360

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Don't look closely, and

I have all the privilege.

361

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But then it disappears.

362

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There's no box for my diversity.

363

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Tony Tidbit: Michael

in New York, New York.

364

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My aunt boiled the girl's utensils.

365

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Just want to make sure that you understand

the girl was how many people in the

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1950s and 60s referred to their maid.

367

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JJ Dionisio: Um, an

anonymous person in the U.

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S.

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:

said, Would Martin Luther

King support gay rights?

370

:

Tony Tidbit: Saw, this is from Ed in,

uh, California, saw the hurt in his eyes.

371

:

When I was in fourth grade, a

new family moved into our lower

372

:

middle class apartment complex.

373

:

They were African American.

374

:

I was out riding my bicycle with

a friend when the six year old of

375

:

that family rode his bike up to us

and asked if he could ride with us.

376

:

We said no, and I saw the look of

hurt in his eyes before we rode away.

377

:

Later, I thought about it and wondered if

he thought it was because he was black.

378

:

It wasn't.

379

:

My best friend in school

named Bobby was black.

380

:

It was because we thought he was too

young and wouldn't be able to keep up.

381

:

I never saw the young boy again.

382

:

But 55 years later, at the age of

65, I still remember his face and

383

:

regret we didn't let him join us.

384

:

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Michael from

Dallas says Rocky wore a hoodie.

385

:

Kill him.

386

:

Tony Tidbit: Uh, Phyllis

from Fort Worth, Texas.

387

:

Leave identity issues to other people.

388

:

I'm a 60 year old woman who has lived

through segregation, integration,

389

:

colored, negro, black, African American,

segregation, marches, integration, and Pan

390

:

Africanism, opulent consumption, financial

catastrophe, and now I'm just me.

391

:

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Kathy from Philadelphia

says, I thought I was being funny.

392

:

I saw a student I work with wearing a

baseball cap and a hoodie tied tightly

393

:

around her face and I said, You're

rockin your perpetrator look today.

394

:

I didn't realize I'd upset her

until another staff member told me.

395

:

I was mortified.

396

:

Tony Tidbit: Sherry from

Montgomery, Alabama says, Lady.

397

:

I don't want your purse.

398

:

If I only had one dollar for every time

I shouted this in my head to a white

399

:

woman in the movie theater or restaurant

or grocery store that grabs her purse

400

:

from wherever she has it sitting and

pulls it to her side when she sees me

401

:

approaching, pushing, pushing my shopping

cart full of kale and tofu or whatever.

402

:

As I watch white, white people pass

her without provoking any concern

403

:

for the safety of her hand bag..

404

:

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Jack from San

Bernardino, California says,

405

:

Their age, not race, scares me.

406

:

Many teens act like they are

10 feet tall, can live forever.

407

:

I don't know what happened, um, in,

uh, in Trayvon's case, but I'm 6'5

408

:

and 300 pounds, and feel uncomfortable

when confronted by young adults,

409

:

no matter what color they are.

410

:

Standing with their hands in their

pockets, And they have a hoodie on is

411

:

scary because I don't know what to expect.

412

:

Tony Tidbit: Douglas, from Florida.

413

:

White privilege, enjoy it, earn it.

414

:

I am not apologizing for

something I have no control over.

415

:

Every major contribution to mankind

was done by people of my race.

416

:

Society owes white people a

debt of gratitude, not scorn.

417

:

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Rob from Lakeland,

Florida says, I don't always wear a suit.

418

:

I'm a leader in the industry and in

the community, and I'm well respected.

419

:

Most days I wear a suit to work,

but I wear a hoodie when I run,

420

:

and gym shorts when I go shopping.

421

:

I should not have to worry about

being followed, having the police

422

:

called on me, or being shot.

423

:

Tony Tidbit: Jordan,

from Lakeland, Florida.

424

:

No, I did not swim here.

425

:

I'm Cuban and Arabic, and any time

I tell somebody that, they ask me if

426

:

I'm a terrorist, or if I swam here,

especially since I live in Florida.

427

:

JJ Dionisio: Uh, Nathaniel from

England says, I want to wear a hoodie.

428

:

Nice and simple.

429

:

Tony Tidbit: Well, as you can see, there,

430

:

there are, uh, a lot of different

perspectives around the country, um,

431

:

from individuals when it comes to race.

432

:

Uh, some of these stories.

433

:

You know, um, are heartbreaking.

434

:

Um, but people have all

different perspectives.

435

:

So I really think it's important

that you pick this book up because,

436

:

you know, it's going to, at

least for me, it enlightened me.

437

:

All right.

438

:

Especially the one I just read, right.

439

:

And I didn't read this yet.

440

:

I'm Cuban and Arabic, and every time

I go somewhere they ask me if I'm

441

:

a terrorist, okay, or you know, you

don't look Jewish, or, you know, or

442

:

JJ Dionisio: Yeah, one of the ones that

stood out to me was one of the ones

443

:

you read actually, which was, um, the

one saying that all, that everything

444

:

influential and important in society

was made by white people, and In my

445

:

mind, I was like, I never thought that

there were people who thought like that.

446

:

Cause, cause when you think about

America, not even, not even just

447

:

white people around the world, just

America, America's most important, most

448

:

influential global export is music and

specifically jazz and rock and roll,

449

:

both of which created by black folks.

450

:

America as a country hasn't produced

much unique and significantly beneficial

451

:

to the world as a greater whole.

452

:

Really other than that and those were

both pioneered created from the ground

453

:

up through the trauma and like Bonding

of black people and it's just it's

454

:

very interesting to me that some people

in their mind are like now everything

455

:

important It's all from white people.

456

:

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, I mean well and to

be well number one I at least appreciate

457

:

them, or whoever it was, right?

458

:

They wrote it on a postcard,

this is what they believe, right?

459

:

And this is what they

460

:

JJ Dionisio: And they

were honest about it.

461

:

Tony Tidbit: And they were

honest about it, right?

462

:

And, and this is the thing.

463

:

We can pick all this apart, right?

464

:

We can pick anyone, we

can do that all day.

465

:

I, for me, and I would recommend

if you pick up this book, Our

466

:

Hidden Conversations by Michele

Norris, what we talk about and Race.

467

:

For me, as I read this, I read it not

to, Um, be appalled or shocked or I

468

:

can't believe he or she said this,

what do they mean, blah, blah, blah.

469

:

I read it to try to understand

how other people think, right?

470

:

And as you go through this, it'll give

you a certain level of perspective.

471

:

That we definitely need, we

have a lot of work to do.

472

:

We have to really break

down these barriers.

473

:

We have to, you know, really communicate

with one another because at the end

474

:

of the day, that's the only thing

that's going to help bridge the gap.

475

:

And obviously, you know, if somebody

doesn't want to communicate and

476

:

this is the way they want to, You

know, live their life and you need

477

:

nothing you can do about that, right?

478

:

But at the end of the day, I just

think it's very important that we talk

479

:

about these issues and and listen to

each person's perspective regardless

480

:

if we disagree with it or not, right?

481

:

Because for whatever reason they've

come to that conclusion that thought

482

:

process and it'll be good You

know, in a conversation to try to

483

:

understand why do they think that way?

484

:

What experience did they go through that

I haven't that made them feel that way?

485

:

So this is awesome.

486

:

Number one, I thank you for, for,

for going through some of those JJ.

487

:

So let me ask you this real quick.

488

:

What did I, what, based on what

you read, what, what did you

489

:

glean out of this of anything?

490

:

JJ Dionisio: Uh, a big thing for me is.

491

:

A lot of people are curious.

492

:

Genuinely.

493

:

Like, I'm looking on this one page, there

was the person who was asking, Would

494

:

Martin Luther King support gay rights?

495

:

And, see, and I don't know from what

perspective this person is asking that

496

:

question, because I've heard some people

genuinely want to have that conversation.

497

:

I've heard some people Use it

as a, um, use it as a way to

498

:

lessen his impact and importance.

499

:

Like I've, I've heard it as just

a genuine curious conversation.

500

:

I've heard people try to use it

as a way to be like, ha, gotcha.

501

:

You don't actually support Dr.

502

:

King and what he was and his

message he was spreading.

503

:

So I just think it's, I.

504

:

I like that that one doesn't have

anything else because like some of

505

:

them had like the the the six words and

then a blurb I like that that was just

506

:

that yeah because it is interesting

to think about that um but at the

507

:

end of the day as as someone who is a

member of the LGTBQ plus community it's

508

:

in my mind that doesn't that wasn't what

he was standing on he I don't I think he

509

:

he wanted to do You know, equal rights

and no segregation for, for everyone.

510

:

So, would he support gay rights?

511

:

I don't know.

512

:

But all I know is what he

wanted wasn't excluding them.

513

:

Right, right.

514

:

So I think that's

interesting to think about.

515

:

Um, definitely a lot of the, um,

the page with the three things

516

:

about, uh, the kids who are adopted.

517

:

That always just, you know, it hits.

518

:

It's, it's tough.

519

:

It's a scary world out there.

520

:

I, some of my best friends

growing up, you know, didn't know

521

:

their, their biological parents.

522

:

They were born in either Korea or Japan

or China and adopted by a white family.

523

:

And that's just a very interesting

part of their identity.

524

:

It's something that they had to

navigate for themselves growing up.

525

:

And especially the first one, where is

the person saying, Uh, that they need a

526

:

fork and that they can't use chopsticks

and really just like hearing what

527

:

they had to say and the whole thing.

528

:

Yes, I am from somewhere.

529

:

Yes, they were born somewhere, but they

don't have much connection to it because

530

:

for them it's their cultural background.

531

:

That's more important than the

fact that they grew up on a farm

532

:

in that lifestyle and not in like

a, an Asian American community.

533

:

But that doesn't, by any means,

lessen how Korean they are.

534

:

Right, right.

535

:

Or lessen how, how American they are.

536

:

Right, right.

537

:

So I think it's, it's very interesting

to hear that, how some people have

538

:

different perspectives on that.

539

:

And this person.

540

:

They, they're like, I'm me.

541

:

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, I, I, so, and

again, I think that, like I said, we

542

:

could go through this and be like,

I can't believe this, and this, and

543

:

this, and that, who knows, right?

544

:

I think it's more about

just learning overall.

545

:

Yeah.

546

:

Right?

547

:

You know, race is, is complex.

548

:

Right.

549

:

It's not when I grew up, I thought

it was just black and white.

550

:

It's not just black.

551

:

It's just what you just

got finished talking about.

552

:

There's so many other nuances is religion.

553

:

It's, you know, uh, sexuality.

554

:

I mean, there's a million things

that like economic status as well.

555

:

All those things, right?

556

:

All those things.

557

:

So, and these are things that

people wrote that they felt.

558

:

Okay.

559

:

And here's the thing.

560

:

I learned this a long time ago.

561

:

Um, and I think it was Maya Angelou,

one of her favorite quotes is that

562

:

at the end of the day, It's, you

can't talk about or you can't say

563

:

somebody shouldn't feel that way.

564

:

If this is how you feel,

this is how you feel.

565

:

Regardless if we think it's

right or wrong, or how dare you,

566

:

or whatever the case may be.

567

:

This is how people feel, right?

568

:

And everybody has a different perspective.

569

:

As much as we want people to move,

move them over to our perspectives,

570

:

and we think it's common sense,

and this is one of the things I

571

:

always do, it's common sense, right?

572

:

But at the end of the day, it's

not, it's not common sense for them.

573

:

It's common sense for them in terms of

their thought process based on their

574

:

experiences, based on their feelings.

575

:

Right?

576

:

And so at the end of the day,

it's really about learning from

577

:

these different perspectives.

578

:

And, and more importantly,

enlightening ourselves that there's

579

:

a whole, she got 500, 000 responses.

580

:

This wasn't just 20.

581

:

JJ Dionisio: No.

582

:

Tony Tidbit: Okay.

583

:

So And, and we just read a few, okay, and

there's a lot, there's a ton, a lot more.

584

:

So at the day, let's learn from them

and let's learn how we can bridge that

585

:

gap and, more importantly, be willing

to listen to other individuals, hear

586

:

their points of view, not to defend, not

to fight back, but to understand, okay?

587

:

We don't have a agree.

588

:

But at least understand, if we

could start with just that, I, you

589

:

know, I, I just think we, we, we can

definitely bring, uh, like I said,

590

:

definitely bring people together.

591

:

So that's the thought.

592

:

JJ Dionisio: Something that for me,

after reading through all these,

593

:

gives me a lot of hope is that

594

:

a lot of this, I haven't been

hearing much from people in

595

:

my generation, my age range.

596

:

I'm not hearing people say.

597

:

That they see anti racist

as a code for anti white.

598

:

Because, you know, for someone growing

up in a predominantly white community,

599

:

and then they see all this stuff about

anti racism, it doesn't surprise me

600

:

that that's where their head goes.

601

:

Because, like, on the pure surface

level, it seems like it's all about

602

:

lifting up others that aren't them.

603

:

So, and I get why that, that

alarm goes off in their head.

604

:

But, I think so many younger

people now don't see it that way.

605

:

Which is just like, fills

me with a lot of hope.

606

:

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, I mean,

and that's the key, right?

607

:

We want every generation

to become better, right?

608

:

Yeah.

609

:

So one of the things I would recommend,

again, we don't get commission, you

610

:

know, we, we haven't, you know, but if

I was , you, I would definitely, you can

611

:

pick this book up on Amazon, pick it up,

buy it as a gift, if you don't even want

612

:

it, buy it as a gift as a friend, right?

613

:

Um, but I just think all of us listening

and hearing what other people are saying

614

:

across the country can only bet that it

could be only beneficial for all of us.

615

:

So.

616

:

I really appreciate JJ.

617

:

Thanks a lot, my friend.

618

:

Thank you for having me for

allowing us to come in the studio

619

:

to talk about, um, Michele Norris's

book, our hidden conversations.

620

:

And then again, I think it's now

time for the weekly spotlight

621

:

from The Burton Wire hosted by Dr.

622

:

Nsenga Burton, Dr.

623

:

Burton.

624

:

What do you have

625

:

for us this week?

626

:

Dr. Nsenga Burton: Good afternoon.

627

:

Thank you for joining me for

"Need to Know" with Nsenga.

628

:

Today I'm going to be talking to you

about, um, dominant ideologies and

629

:

that's ways of thinking or belief systems

around gender, specifically, um, Mr.

630

:

Harrison Butker's, um, comments from the

Kansas City Chiefs, um, about women's,

631

:

uh, about women's roles in society and

where they should be, um, and how His

632

:

comments, not only are archaic and out

of touch and out of date with what is

633

:

happening in today's world, but also

dangerous, particularly in the context

634

:

in which they were shared, which is at a.

635

:

a college graduation, um, where

people have spent a lot of time and

636

:

a lot of money to try and rise above,

uh, those types of limited, uh,

637

:

definitions, perceptions, ideas about

women's Women and our role in society.

638

:

Mr.

639

:

Butker basically said that, um, he just

wanted to go back to the good old day

640

:

where women knew their role, which was to

be at home and to have babies and to, you

641

:

know, basically take care of their man.

642

:

Um, and that's nice coming from

a super bowl champion, uh, who

643

:

makes more than $4 million a year.

644

:

Most people, even in the NFL are

not making $4 million a year.

645

:

The average salary for someone in the NFL

is between $480,000 and $600,000 a year.

646

:

Typically they're only going to work for

three years before they're cut, move on.

647

:

The likelihood of you being able to have

someone stay at home, uh, full time,

648

:

particularly in the economy and the

culture in which we live is slim to none.

649

:

This idea that somehow people can

afford in this society, um, in this

650

:

day and age to have someone stay home.

651

:

I mean, even with the cost of

childcare as a mother, uh, literally.

652

:

A third of my actually is more

than a third of my take home

653

:

pay goes to childcare period.

654

:

Um, my daughter's adopted.

655

:

Um, so I am an only parent.

656

:

I'm not a single parent.

657

:

I'm an only parent.

658

:

So I'm not sharing custody with anybody.

659

:

There's not another set of grandparents.

660

:

I also don't live near my parents

or most of my close family members.

661

:

So, um, I have to pay someone to take

care of her and it is very expensive,

662

:

especially if you want someone in a safe.

663

:

nurturing and uplifting environment.

664

:

All right.

665

:

So, which leads me back to Butker.

666

:

Butker's comments are dangerous

because women are more than

667

:

just sperm depositories for men.

668

:

Women have contributed more to

society than just babies, uh, and

669

:

taking care of men and families.

670

:

We're more than just objects of

affection for men and their, uh, desires.

671

:

Um, and we're more than just

care takers, unfortunately,

672

:

in our society, because many.

673

:

Uh, women have actually been trained

often by men and other women, uh, to

674

:

believe that that is their ultimate

role in society as, uh, defined by many,

675

:

uh, I would say spiritual scriptures.

676

:

Um, you know, many women are doing both,

they're working 40 hours to 60 hours a

677

:

week and doing all of the caretaking and

nurturing and guiding of the children,

678

:

um, even in, in married households.

679

:

So this idea that, you know,

somehow there's this kind of split.

680

:

Between this is what the women

do and this is what the man does.

681

:

I mean, it's just so out of touch

with what all the studies, all of the

682

:

interviews, all you have to do is look on

message boards, mom message boards, and

683

:

you will see just, you know, the number

of women who are saying, I'm exhausted.

684

:

I can't take it anymore.

685

:

I have to work 60 hours a week and I'm

paying half, if not all of the bills

686

:

and I have to take care of the kids

and I have to take care of my parents

687

:

and I'm taking care of his parents,

you know, all of the things, right.

688

:

Butker is just really out of line.

689

:

But what makes him a jackass is that

he did it at a college graduation.

690

:

And a college graduation where people

have paid good money to get an education

691

:

and to be uplifted and not to be demeaned

or demoralized by someone who's like,

692

:

yeah, I'm at a college graduation,

but you really need to stay home.

693

:

You girls need to be at home

having babies before you, man.

694

:

And, and you guys, you need to go

out there and be providers and,

695

:

and, and don't worry about all of

the things that fully human people

696

:

need from everybody, including men.

697

:

Perhaps he should look at those studies

of what goes on with women who grow

698

:

up without fathers in their life.

699

:

So, when I think about Butker,

you know, not only demeaning and

700

:

demoralizing these students who had

worked really hard to get to this day

701

:

and wanted to and needed to be uplifted.

702

:

Um, and to be celebrated for, for, for

staying the course through COVID and

703

:

staying the course through this tumultuous

times and, and the school shootings, all

704

:

the things that they have survived, the

trauma really, that they have survived,

705

:

um, these kinds of like very wealthy,

empowered people who have, um, microphones

706

:

to large groups of people, right?

707

:

This dude was invited.

708

:

To share his wisdom with graduating

seniors, people who are going to

709

:

the next phase of their lives.

710

:

When you think about the

interconnectedness between the

711

:

statements that he's making and the

rights that are being eroded for women.

712

:

Um, we have to take these statements

very seriously, you know, uh, Roe

713

:

versus Wade is, is, you know, all

for all intents and purposes gone.

714

:

Right.

715

:

So now it's the state issue.

716

:

My point is all of these

things are connected.

717

:

There's a woman named

Patricia Hill Collins.

718

:

She wrote a book.

719

:

Fantastic book called

Black Feminist Thought.

720

:

Um, and I encourage everyone to read it.

721

:

I call it an oldie but a goodie, but

she talks about intersectionality and

722

:

the ways in which these dominant systems

intersect to maintain power for the

723

:

status quo and the ways in which Butker's

messaging, which is misogynistic.

724

:

If you're not a man, you don't matter.

725

:

Your life is, is, has no value

unless a man says it has value.

726

:

Right.

727

:

Um, and so all of those things are

interconnected when we think about

728

:

issues of race, when we think about

issues of gender, when we think

729

:

about issues of sexual identity.

730

:

This is why his comments hit across

so many different categories.

731

:

Right, because he knows that people

who are in power knows know that these

732

:

type of issues are interconnected.

733

:

They work together.

734

:

You know, if you look at all the

rights, voting rights are being

735

:

eroded, LGBTQ rights are being eroded

1st amendment rights are being eroded

736

:

gender rights are being eroded.

737

:

These are all civil rights,

by the way, are being eroded.

738

:

And so what's what's next?

739

:

Who's next?

740

:

So, if you haven't gotten a memo now,

or, or, or before, you should get it.

741

:

Because if we don't start standing up

for ourselves, if we don't start standing

742

:

up for women, um, if we don't push back

when people make, I mean, just really,

743

:

really sad, um, and abusive statements,

um, like, um, then, you know, our

744

:

future is bleak and we don't want that.

745

:

We want a future that

is bright and that is.

746

:

Available to everyone.

747

:

Thanks a lot.

748

:

And the Nsenga, Dr.

749

:

Burton, that was awesome.

750

:

Look forward to chatting with you again

and hearing your points of view next week.

751

:

So we want to thank you for tuning

in to another episode of a black

752

:

executive perspective podcast, I

think is now time for Tony's Tidbit

753

:

is time for Tony's Tidbit, right?

754

:

And based on.

755

:

Michele Norris's book, Our Hidden

Conversations, What Americans Really

756

:

Think About Race and Identity.

757

:

Our tidbit today is by James Baldwin.

758

:

And James Baldwin, what he says

is not everything that is face

759

:

can be changed, but nothing

can be changed until it's face.

760

:

Right?

761

:

And I think that's apropos based

on the book she put together.

762

:

And, and this is the first

step of facing these things.

763

:

So I hope you enjoyed this episode, Public

Views on Race: Analysis and Discussion.

764

:

Um.

765

:

Please, our motto, a Black

Executive Perspective motto, we

766

:

use the acronym LESS, L E S S.

767

:

We're looking to decrease

racism, any sexism, right?

768

:

So we're asking that

everybody incorporate LESS.

769

:

And what is LESS?

770

:

Number one, you want to learn, right?

771

:

You want to educate yourself about

other racial groups and cultures, right?

772

:

And then once you learn,

E stands for empathy.

773

:

You should be more empathetic.

774

:

empathetic to your fellow

human being and colleague.

775

:

Then after that, S stands for share.

776

:

Now you want to share what you learned

to all your friends and family so

777

:

they can be enlightened as well.

778

:

And then the other S is stop.

779

:

You want to actively work to stop

discrimination and foster inclusivity.

780

:

So what does that mean?

781

:

You had the Thanksgiving table and

grandma says something, you say, no

782

:

grandma, we can't say that, right?

783

:

You stop it, right?

784

:

So if everyone does this,

we'll have a Build a better

785

:

and a more understanding world.

786

:

So incorporate this call to

action L E less L E S S less.

787

:

And let's do it every day.

788

:

And guess what?

789

:

We'll see the change that we want to see.

790

:

So don't miss our next exact next

episode on a black executive perspective.

791

:

You're going to love it and go,

uh, please give us a rating.

792

:

Go to wherever you're listening

to, uh, our show, whatever

793

:

podcast platform on YouTube.

794

:

Give us a rating.

795

:

Give us your thoughts on today's

episode public views on race Analysis

796

:

and discussion you can follow a black

executive perspective podcast On wherever

797

:

you get your podcast and you can follow

us on our socials on linkedin x youtube

798

:

tiktok and instagram at ablackexec

for the university of new haven For

799

:

allowing a black executive perspective

to be here You Our, our, uh, producer,

800

:

JJ, want to thank you a lot, JJ.

801

:

JJ Dionisio: Thank you

802

:

so much for having me.

803

:

This is a great time.

804

:

Tony Tidbit: Appreciate it.

805

:

I want to thank you again for joining.

806

:

We're out.

807

:

We love you.

808

:

And we just talked about

809

:

BEP Narrator: a

810

:

black executive perspective.

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