Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers, as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

It's the final B5 book club, and it's all Londo all the time! Laura and Xhafer compare their past and present impressions of B5: Legions of Fire (The Centauri Prime Trilogy).

Hello and welcome to Who Are You?

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This is the Babylon 5 Watchcast

hosted by two former strangers.

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Now friends who've gotten to know

each other while we're watching a

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favorite show from their childhood.

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I'm Jafar

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Laura: And I'm Laura.

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Xhafer: and it's been a while.

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Laura: It has been a while, and I

was just thinking, it's, we're gonna

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have to change up that intro soon.

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Xhafer: I almost, I stopped like that.

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That pause was not a dramatic pause.

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That was a, Oh my God, I'm going

to say this two more times.

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Pause.

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Laura: Man, two more times?

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Really?

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That's it?

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Xhafer: have lost tales

and we have our recap.

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I think that's it.

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Laura: Man, Ja'far goes on

vacation, and the show's over.

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Xhafer: Right.

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Is this an anniversary up?

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Holy shit.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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This is crazy.

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Xhafer: We did it two years.

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Holy shit.

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Laura: two years, or is it three?

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Xhafer: to 24, three years anniversary.

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Fuck!

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We've been recording this

podcast for three years.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: Oh my fucking god.

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Oh wow, okay.

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Wow.

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Time needs to slow the fuck down.

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It has been

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Laura: It does.

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Xhafer: We will We, I mean, it'll

probably be a little bit more appropriate

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to wax poetic on this in two episodes.

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Laura: Yeah, for sure.

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Xhafer: we have an episode

dedicated to that exact thing.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: in acknowledgement of

the anniversary is worthwhile.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We decided we were going to make

this a sort of a mini PowerPoint

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episode, except there's no.

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PowerPoint for you guys

out there, listener.

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I'm so sorry,

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Xhafer: Well, I also just didn't make one,

so there's no PowerPoint for you either.

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Laura.

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Laura: that's right.

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But you're going to do it

PowerPoint style, right?

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I'm going to give you a

little, like, there's my drink.

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Xhafer: Nice.

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yeah, I uh, I spent the last two

hours on a technical call and no,

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no, no, not, not work related.

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Uh, the, uh, the fan project that

I'm helping do dev work for database

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planning for future data set stuff

is, is very engaging and super fun.

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But I was drinking beers during that.

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And uh, now I have a glass of Groitka,

which is a sour cherry liqueur that I

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Laura: that sounds nice.

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Xhafer: Prague and then carried with me.

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And I do mean carried like a child

in my arms from Prague through

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Amsterdam, back home into the United

States on the tail end of my trip, I

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was gone in Europe for three weeks.

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Um, which was awesome.

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I had a great time.

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Laura: awesome.

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Xhafer: I posted a ton of

pictures on the Facebook.

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Um, I should post some

pictures in the discord for

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Laura: The choicest

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Xhafer: The choices ones.

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I, I had to give a little like

presentation at work about my trip.

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I have a, I have a team meeting every

other week with all the people who

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work in data at the company and they

wanted to fill it out and I was the

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most recent person to go on vacation.

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So,

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: Everyone on the team is super

introverted, but me and, and my, my direct

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boss, everyone else is very introverted.

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And so everyone will

go on these vacations.

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They're like, here's a picture of

my sister's wedding that I spent

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three weeks in India for and stuff.

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You know, it's just like a picture.

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And so I rolled up with like a slideshow.

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Um, it's like, I think I brought

like 30 or 40 pictures of the 500.

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Some that I took,

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Laura: that's the way to go.

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Xhafer: yeah, yeah.

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I'll put some in the discord.

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I've got, I got some set aside.

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it was a lovely trip on which I read the

trilogy, the Centauri trilogy, which is

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what we're supposed to talk about today.

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I could not find a good

synopsis for these books online.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: a shame because

I didn't take notes.

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Laura: Yeah.

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We were struggling with.

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The other one's a little bit

too, I think, that there's not

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a lot of synopses out there.

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There's not a lot of

chatter about these books.

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Somebody needs to get on that.

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Xhafer: There was a thread on the gray 17

Facebook about these books the other day

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Laura: Oh, really?

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Xhafer: a lot of people over there

really liked them, which is why I'm

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not afraid to say, because there's not

a lot of overlap in our viewership.

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I did not like these books.

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Laura: Oh, no!

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So, listener, listener, I will spoil.

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for you that I am a PhD student and

I have only read the things that I

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absolutely have to read and not even

all of those in the last few weeks.

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Um, so I did not get to

read these books again.

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I have read these books a long time

ago, but I remembered liking them.

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Xhafer: So I have a couple of

issues with a couple of things.

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Laura: Okay.

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Yeah,

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Xhafer: Overall, they're not bad.

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Peter David is a really good

job of capturing Lando's voice

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Laura: for

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Xhafer: a hundred percent.

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That's the, that is the highlight

of the books, all three.

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If you want nothing else, but more

Lando in your life, these books

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will deliver it to you in spades.

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Laura: I think that might be part

of why they are beloved over on

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that thread in Grace 17 is people

love Londo and they miss Londo.

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Which, yeah, Wando's not necessarily

a good guy, but oh well, he's

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Xhafer: He does suffer a

great deal in these books.

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Laura: That's true.

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I do remember that.

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And I, so I did read part of the

first one just many, many weeks ago

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before I started the PhD program.

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Xhafer: The first two chapters

of the first book are the best

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two chapters of any of the books.

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Laura: Oh no.

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Xhafer: Like the first, there's a prologue

and chapter one of the book and the

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prologue is Lando acquiring the keeper

told from the point of view of the keeper.

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then chapter one is Lando acquiring the

keeper from the point of view of Lando.

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Laura: Yes.

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Xhafer: two chapters in the books,

hands down, not even a question.

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Laura: it's that episode where,

where it happens in the show,

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like that's the moment we're at.

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It's not like we're starting at

something, you know, not in Babylon

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five, just, you know, very, adjacent.

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It is that moment in Babylon 5.

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Xhafer: So I'm going to give you a

quick little like overview of some

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stuff that happens in these books.

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Laura: Okay.

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Xhafer: Um, we have a crusade

character reoccurring.

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Laura: But it's not Lockley, right?

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Xhafer: have no, they're

actually reoccurring.

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Uh, We have a minor character, a minor

beloved character from Babylon five die.

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Laura: Oh, no

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Xhafer: we have the term her breasts

heaving applied to a 14 year old

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Laura: no, no.

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so in the first book, Londo sort

of adopts a orphan of the uh,

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Alliance attack or whatever.

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And her name is Senna, I think.

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Xhafer: Senna.

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We actually see her.

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She's in the Gathering movie.

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Laura: That's right.

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She's got the children.

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Xhafer: got the children

who are Jado's kids.

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Yeah.

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Urza Jado's kids, which is the

guy Lando kills in the sword

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fight and season one or two,

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Laura: Mm hmm.

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Xhafer: they're like his grandkids.

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Those are the kids that are

running around the palace.

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Laura: Yeah, is Senna one of his children,

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Xhafer: Senna is the

daughter of Lord Rifa.

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Laura: Oh, that's right.

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That's right.

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Okay.

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so he has some guilt there and adopts her.

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Xhafer: So yeah, that's

pretty early on in the books.

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The books are

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Laura: Yikes!

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Please don't leave breasts on 14 year

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Xhafer: I remember reading that

and just setting the book down

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and just being all like, is this

book going to ruin my vacation?

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And the answer was no.

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Um, and the next time that character

was overtly and needlessly sexualized,

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she was at least like probably 17 or 18.

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It's a little murky on the timeframes.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: to be fair, she might not

have been 14 at that point in the

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book, because the book's all like it

covers this many years and you don't

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Laura: And you don't know where you're at.

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Xhafer: so she might've been.

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Sixteen when that happened,

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Laura: Mm hmm.

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Xhafer: great.

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I literally, it's just like,

she's described as like a

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child for most of this book.

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And then just out of nowhere,

there was literally like she's

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running down a hallway and it's

literally her breasts heaving.

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And I'm just all like, I

can't get that out of my head.

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Why is that

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Laura: A child is panting,

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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It's disgusting.

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I was so upset.

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Okay.

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So, Lando, right.

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It's all told in this framing

device, which is very like the

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end of Lord of the Rings, but

spread out throughout the books.

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Um, which is, it's the memoirs of

Emperor Lando Mallari collected

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and notarized by Emperor Vir Kodo.

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And then it's.

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Earth edition and everything's

put in earth time, which

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Laura: Uh, yeah.

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Xhafer: a nice touch.

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Laura: You need to do that.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: Um, that was fun.

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There's a lots of little fun

stuff in these books, admittedly.

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Um,

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Laura: of Lord of the Rings,

today is also October the 24th.

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Xhafer: yes, it is.

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It was 10 AM.

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It's almost 10 PM as of

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Laura: Speaking of this

particular problem.

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Xhafer: Yeah so like these books

do a very good job of capturing the

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characters that we know, taking them

through things really good job with

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their voices books do a very bad job of

having a plot that I give a fuck about.

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Laura: Oh no.

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Xhafer: so Lando gets his keeper, right?

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Adopts Senna and he's got this

guard, who's named Durla, right?

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Who's like a pain in the ass.

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And Durla is very quickly promoted

to minister of internal affairs

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Laura: Yeah.

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The,

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Xhafer: at the behest

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of the

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Laura: him pliable.

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Xhafer: And so we find out that

Durla's childhood sweetheart

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is Lando's ex wife, Mariel.

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Laura: Oh no.

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Yeah,

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Xhafer: We, we see Mariel and T'moth

are both major players in these books.

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Um, no D'gar, not in the books at all.

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She's referenced a couple of times.

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Um, just like, Lando talks about

how his wives were three of

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the horsemen of the apocalypse.

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This is like a conversation Durla

has with another Centauri minister

250

without Lando present at some point

and makes the joke that Lando was war.

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Like just like the fun part of

that was that it was unspoken.

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Okay.

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There's lots of stuff like that

where it's just all like, Oh,

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that's a fun reference to the show.

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But also by referencing that part of

the show, you're just fan servicing me.

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And I'm not interested in that.

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I'm interested in a plot.

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Which I didn't really get.

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So Durla gets promoted to minister

of internal affairs and proceeds

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to just fuck up all kinds of stuff.

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Um, he's got his own agenda and

he is effectively the main villain

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of the story for all three books.

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Um, he eventually becomes

Lando's prime minister.

264

Um, he keeps getting promoted.

265

He's very xenophobic.

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And leans in a lot with that.

267

He's got like this buddy who

starts this religion, like this

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religious fervor on Centauri Prime.

269

That's also a very isolationist.

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Centauri's are the best.

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Everyone else sucks.

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We're made in the image

of the great maker.

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Everyone else blows trunks.

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Laura: It's the fascist playbook.

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Mm

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Xhafer: hundred percent.

277

It's the fascist playbook.

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And the, I think my problem with

these books, putting it in that frame

279

is that they don't do as good or as

subtle a job as the show did, which

280

I mean, there's a lot more runway in

seasons of TV compared to three novels.

281

Laura: sure.

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Yeah.

283

Xhafer: Also like he's already

the emperor, like they're not

284

exactly a not fascist society.

285

Like Lando can just have people

killed whenever he wants.

286

And everyone just has to deal with that.

287

Um, which is like the only power

he has, he signs off on laws

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and he threatens to kill people.

289

It's like the only stuff Lando ever does

politically with the position of emperor.

290

so yeah, we get all that.

291

Durla manipulated by the Drakh uh, starts

digging on this super distant planet

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where a bunch of the miners end up dying,

293

it ends up being a, like, shadow gateway.

294

It, it sounded very third spacey, but

it led to like a pocket of like shadow

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stuff instead of third space stuff.

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Laura: Yeah.

297

Instead of even worse space

villain, unknowable horror.

298

Xhafer: Um, and they end up like

veer is guided by these two, well,

299

these three, but one of them dies

very early techno major initiates.

300

Laura: Oh, okay.

301

Xhafer: full Technomages, right?

302

They're like little baby Technomages,

and they're in this like little

303

Technomage cabal learning to

do their Technomage stuff.

304

So they're not like, I am Gandalf,

like Galen gets sometimes.

305

We do find out that they

all report to Galen though.

306

And Galen is a reoccurring

character in these books.

307

Laura: oh, I was kind of hoping for

a second that you were going to say

308

Doreena was one of the initiates

and I was going to be like, yeah.

309

Xhafer: fun.

310

This takes place before all of that

though, because the WEP, the planet killer

311

that the drug used to attack earth is

uncovered through this Centauri dugout

312

gateway that they dig out for the truck.

313

And there were three planet

killers and this like shadow thing

314

that built the planet killers.

315

Laura: Oh,

316

Xhafer: Galen destroys all of it,

but a planet killer, just himself.

317

Yeah, yeah, just like

spell of destructions.

318

You shall not passes it.

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Laura: but no, I mean like, did

he kill all of them on, except

320

did he leave one on purpose or,

321

Xhafer: no, it got away

before he could do the thing.

322

And he's like with bumbling

Veer for all of this.

323

Veer hangs out with Technomages for

like a solid 20 percent of these books.

324

Laura: That's what this

spinoff should have been.

325

Xhafer: You know, like you say that,

but you didn't read these books.

326

And it's mostly Technomages being cryptic

and Veer complaining about them being

327

cryptic, and then them calling him

a bumbling idiot, and he's all like,

328

well I'm alive, fuck off, you need me.

329

And a lot of that is just like

It's fun for the first 10 pages,

330

Laura: Yeah.

331

You can't do that for the whole

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Xhafer: and then it's Tom Clancy

describing drapes in an, in an

333

embassy in Rainbow Six all over

again, where it's just like, why

334

are we continuing to do this?

335

Laura: Yeah.

336

Xhafer: and it's just, they keep

coming back, their main characters,

337

these Technomage initiates,

they just keep showing up.

338

They save fear's life like 20 times.

339

Laura: Well, Veer's a man

whose life needs saving a

340

Xhafer: Yeah.

341

but we find out that the Drak had planned

on using the virus to kill the Mimbari.

342

Laura: Oh, interesting.

343

Plot twist.

344

Xhafer: So when they destroy the

planet killer, the plan was to blow

345

up earth with the planet killer and

then send after all the, all the

346

Alliance fleet was there dealing with

the planet killer to spend, send the

347

virus ships to Minbar and fuck Minbar.

348

Laura: So then they just like aborted when

the planet killer is uh, destroyed and

349

to go ahead and just dump the virus ships

350

Xhafer: Yeah, well, they're already

there and we're going to kill the humans

351

because John Sheridan's people were

the target earth needed to be punished.

352

John Sheridan needed to be punished

for pushing the shadows away because

353

he's the one who told them to

get the hell out of their galaxy.

354

Laura: Uh Huh.

355

Right.

356

Xhafer: yeah.

357

Um, so we learned all that stuff.

358

Galen's around a ton.

359

That's most of book one.

360

Where's book two pick

361

Laura: So what is, what is uh,

Marielle's deal in the first book?

362

Like, I had gotten to the

point where she, like, shows up

363

Xhafer: she,

364

Laura: her purpose?

365

Xhafer: shows up, as a spy, right.

366

And.

367

And so she works for the new spy, the,

the Centauri KGB or whatever, right?

368

Laura: Yeah, Yeah,

369

I remember so Durla ropes her

in and he uses his like, um,

370

what was the young Nazis group?

371

Xhafer: are the Hitler youth

372

Laura: Yeah, that's it.

373

They're basically the Hitler

youth of Centauri Prime.

374

He uses one of his his

375

Xhafer: at one point, Garibaldi shows

up and straight up calls them the Hitler

376

Laura: He's like in case you couldn't

tell These are the Hitler youth

377

Xhafer: by the by.

378

Laura: We probably didn't need that

Peter David, I think we still I still

379

Xhafer: I mean, you say that,

380

Laura: Some people don't.

381

I know.

382

Xhafer: lack the reasoning

to follow along what's very

383

obvious.

384

Laura: That's true.

385

But she's like destitute.

386

Her divorce from Londo has

left her like super broke.

387

She's like contemplating ending her

own life, I think, when this kid

388

shows up and she decides to play

389

Xhafer: Yep.

390

So she becomes a spy.

391

Um, she ends up getting into

a relationship with Veer.

392

Yeah.

393

Laura: Oh, no, not, poor Vier, no.

394

He's already had the bad

Nazi lady relationship.

395

Xhafer: straight up using him

and his position as ambassador

396

on Babylon 5, but then.

397

Galen interferes and uses the 14

words to make someone love you

398

to make her love Veer undyingly

399

and Veer is tortured with this because

he knows that the relationship was a

400

facade at this point and that he was

being used and so he like kind of out

401

of bitterness is like, well, you've been

using me, so I guess I'm going to use

402

you and then like the weight of what

he has done to her because she's just

403

brainwashed to love him uncontrollably.

404

Now,

405

Laura: Oh, no.

406

Vier!

407

Xhafer: It's super grody.

408

Like, I mean, it's, it is super

grody and it's written super grody.

409

Like it's not a thing where it's

all like, Oh, and now Vier's using

410

her and turnabout is fair play.

411

That is not how it's written.

412

Listener.

413

It is written where Vier

is filled with guilt over.

414

Brainwashing this person to love him

and all of the consequences of that.

415

Um, they stopped being physically

intimate because of it, because

416

it feels rapey to him as it

417

Laura: Uh Huh.

418

Xhafer: Um,

419

Laura: Did he use the words

on her, or Galen used the

420

Xhafer: Galen used the words on her to

make him love her to make her love him.

421

Laura: Yeah, all of it is bad though.

422

Xhafer: Yes.

423

It's terrible.

424

Yeah.

425

Um, so much show that she completely

loses all agency as a character

426

throughout the rest of the novels.

427

Laura: go figure.

428

Xhafer: Right?

429

So another reason to hate these books.

430

Laura: Yeah.

431

Xhafer: and it's like, she

ends up, like Veer ends up

432

persuading her to go marry Durla.

433

Like, they set up this thing

where, yeah, no, the face you're

434

making is the correct face.

435

Um, he's all like, you need to go spy

on Durla for me and get close to him

436

so you're gonna be married to him.

437

And she's all like,

whatever you need, Veer.

438

I know that you'll come

back and save me one day.

439

Right?

440

And all this shit.

441

And he like has a card game

with Durla where he bets her

442

and, and loses on purpose.

443

Yeah.

444

Laura: chance to do something.

445

Peter David and you did none of it.

446

Xhafer: Yeah.

447

So while all this is going on

there Durla is like building up the

448

Centauri military, which is a big

no, no from the Alliance, right?

449

They're not happy about it.

450

And so they send Garibaldi, Jakar.

451

Laura: Oh yeah.

452

That'll that's a good idea.

453

That'll work.

454

Okay.

455

Xhafer: And Lou Welch.

456

Laura: What?

457

Xhafer: So Lou

458

Laura: Oh, well, it's just

the one who's going to die.

459

Xhafer: a hundred percent Lou Welch dies.

460

Um, so Lou Welch at some point goes

and becomes a private investigator,

461

graduate of the Garibaldi home school

security school, a hundred percent.

462

Taught him everything he knows.

463

I put a little quote about

it on the discord, I believe.

464

Um, and at some point Lou Welch found

a chameleon suit, which is the thing

465

that lets you be invisible, right?

466

It was in an episode in like season

three or season four, whatever.

467

Um,

468

so he has one of these for some reason

469

Laura: Cool.

470

Xhafer: is using it as a

private investigator, right?

471

And so.

472

Yeah, so they're on Centauri Prime,

he's like, spying on the Hitler Youth,

473

and there's like a Drak in the room

who recognizes what the fuck is going

474

on, turns off the chameleon field.

475

Well, just like standing there as a human,

a bunch of bunks like Hitler youth elders.

476

They're all like 17 or 18

and they beat him to death.

477

Like one of the dudes who's

like Londo's guard or whatever,

478

just snaps his fucking neck.

479

Right.

480

Veer

481

ends up killing that dude as revenge

for Garibaldi uh, because there's

482

a whole set of, there's like a

reoccurring thing is all like, there's

483

all this shit in Centauri Prime

and Veer's all like, I'm going to

484

tell you Garibaldi and you can tell

Sheridan, but you guys have to promise.

485

Not to fuck with this and let the

Centauri handle the Centauri problem.

486

And they're like, well, you're building

up this giant military, or you've got

487

this Hitler youth program, or you're,

you're really raising the Xeno uh,

488

xenophobic culture, like there's all

this stuff you you're going to handle it.

489

He's just like, trust me.

490

And it's like veers machinations

the entire time as he's

491

being guided by techno mages.

492

eventually founding the legions of fire,

which is like a Centauri revolution.

493

That ends up purging all of

the drach from Centauri prime.

494

They just kill all the drach, just

straight up genocide those fuckers.

495

And

496

uh,

497

Laura: Who genocides the genocider?

498

Xhafer: yeah, Veer apparently Veer does.

499

Laura: Huh.

500

Huh.

501

Xhafer: Yeah.

502

And it's like the whole books.

503

Um,

504

Laura: the legions of fire

is the name of the trilogy.

505

Xhafer: That's the main thing

that happens with Veer and Lando.

506

Um, Veer and Senna end

up becoming a thing.

507

Mariel kills Durla by committing suicide

and throwing them both out of a window.

508

Laura: Hmm.

509

Xhafer: Um,

510

Laura: Okay.

511

Xhafer: there's a bunch of stuff like

all of this is all happening around the

512

same time as it the third book is all.

513

About the gathering, right?

514

Not the gathering.

515

It's uh, in the beginning, right?

516

So Lando's the old man, right?

517

The night he dies with Jakar.

518

That's the third book.

519

Laura: Yeah.

520

Tell me, does the, um,

521

Xhafer: we, we get an

522

Laura: the urn.

523

Xhafer: We get ex, we find

out what happens with the urn.

524

We find out what, why Delen

and Sheridan are on Sari Prime.

525

We find out what happens after,

and we get a resolution on all of

526

it tied up in a nice little bow.

527

Laura: Wow.

528

Xhafer: So the urn does

have a keeper in it.

529

The urn does break open

and join with David and.

530

Laura: Oh, wow.

531

Xhafer: so the keeper has

been like whispering to him

532

since he was a child, right?

533

Since before he was born, basically, it's

been telepathically bonding with him.

534

And so when it shows up, he like

resists for like a second, but

535

then he's not like, Oh, but you're

like the thing from my dreams.

536

That's going to help me.

537

And it's been guiding me

and is my protector, right?

538

Okay, cool.

539

Yeah.

540

I'm, I'm a 16 year old boy and

I've been super sheltered by my

541

parents on min bar my whole life.

542

Laura: And I'm special.

543

Xhafer: I'm so some

fucking chosen one, y'all.

544

Laura: Yeah.

545

So this is the thing that's

going to help me be more special.

546

Okay.

547

Yeah.

548

Xhafer: So he accepts the keeper.

549

He like beats the shit out of a

guard, like a ranger, hijacks a

550

shuttle and goes to Centauri Prime

551

Laura: Good idea.

552

Xhafer: because the Drak have

promised Durla that they'll deliver

553

him the son of Sheridan, right?

554

Laura: So that's, that's how they

wind up there, surely, right?

555

They're going to rescue

556

Xhafer: Yeah.

557

So they go to rescue him.

558

Durla like sends them a message where

it's all like, you'll come alone.

559

If you ever want to see your son again,

and it's like whole set up to like kill

560

them very publicly on Centauri prime.

561

And then also they've been building

this massive fleet that's bigger than

562

all of the ships, the Alliance has

combined for some reason that they've

563

managed to build in secret over 20

564

Laura: In hiding.

565

Right.

566

Yeah.

567

Xhafer: And they have like a

fully trained army and everything,

568

and they're going to attack.

569

Like 80 percent of the Alliance

homeworld at the same time.

570

Laura: Wow.

571

After we, you know, how many years has it

been since they wiped out like, uh, 40?

572

Xhafer: like 12, 14, maybe, maybe

it's 20 years by the end of this book.

573

I don't know.

574

Well, it can't be 20

years cause Sheridan dies.

575

So.

576

Laura: right, right,

577

Xhafer: he has 20 years from

the start of season four.

578

So, and it starts during crusade,

which is four or five years.

579

So it's like maybe 15 years.

580

Laura: I mean, I guess the

Centauri probably still had

581

some colonies and stuff.

582

I was thinking, you know, we wiped out

40 percent of their whole civilization or

583

something, but that's probably not true.

584

They might, they might've wiped out like

40 percent of Centauri prime, but there

585

were probably colonies and shit, but

still, it does seem a bit over ambitious.

586

Doesn't it?

587

Xhafer: for sure.

588

Laura: Where did we get all the

resources for these new ships?

589

Xhafer: Yeah.

590

It's secret colonies.

591

They, they do a lot of like attacking

like worlds that are protectorates of.

592

Interstellar powers, but not anything

that anyone cares about for resources.

593

They do a little bit of that

stuff in the background.

594

They talk about it sometimes

like, Oh, we attacked this world.

595

Oh, we did this thing.

596

Oh, we got these resources.

597

And it's all to build

this giant fleet of ships.

598

so they're going to kill John

and Dillon publicly as they

599

launched this giant attack, right?

600

With John Sheridan's giant hands.

601

And Dylan's weird face on

the cover of that book.

602

Laura: Ja'far has beef with the cover,

603

Xhafer: It's the worst art of the two

of them that exists that I've seen.

604

Laura: Mm.

605

Xhafer: sure there's

something somewhere anyways.

606

So they show up, there's all

this stuff they're captured.

607

We get the time jumping, all of that.

608

Right.

609

Um, we learned that the keeper

is another direct spawn of that.

610

Scott.

611

David is the same one that's got.

612

Londo,

613

Laura: Oh, from the

Drak, whatever his name

614

Xhafer: uh, Shikari or something.

615

Laura: Yeah.

616

Xhafer: and Jakar do their thing.

617

They both die killing each other.

618

Veer has the giant revolution.

619

They kill all the Drakk.

620

there's like a little

bit of a military coup.

621

And so they don't attack everyone.

622

Uh, Ja'an, Delenn, and David all

escape, but they have to drug David.

623

To stop him from doing keeper shit.

624

Laura: Yeah.

625

How are we gonna get that keeper off?

626

Xhafer: This is all, this

all comes a bit after.

627

Um, so the big revolution happens.

628

Veer is the emperor.

629

He's hanging out with Senna and

well, he's going to be the emperor.

630

I don't, when Lando dies.

631

Right.

632

Laura: Yeah.

633

I know he's gonna be the emperor,

but part of me was just like,

634

Xhafer: They don't

635

Laura: that can't be an idiot, right?

636

Xhafer: a,

637

Laura: Hehehe.

638

Yeah.

639

Yeah.

640

Hehehe.

641

Xhafer: and so all that stuff that

we know happens, John, David and

642

Dylan escape, they go back to Minbar

with David Franklin comes out to be

643

David's doctor and they're all like,

well, we can't get rid of this thing.

644

It will just keep growing back.

645

It's the same thing that we saw from

the keeper in season, whatever, when

646

they found one on that dude, right?

647

Laura: Oh,

648

Xhafer: There was the whole

thing before where they set them

649

Laura: Uh huh.

650

Xhafer: Earlier, it's just like,

it's integrated into his body.

651

We can't do anything.

652

It's like, well, maybe if we kill the

drug that spawned it, he'll be fun.

653

That might help, right?

654

Laura: Yeah.

655

Yeah.

656

So that, that drock did not get killed in

657

Xhafer: that truck did not get

killed and that truck comes

658

to threaten veer and veers.

659

I'll like, bitch, place your hand

and Garibaldi pops out of the

660

closet and shoots the truck dead.

661

Yep.

662

Garibaldi's

663

Laura: had no idea Garibaldi was there.

664

A man who probably like projects every

single thought he has super hard.

665

Xhafer: Notable, canonically susceptible

to telepath bullshit, Michael Garibaldi

666

Laura: Right.

667

Xhafer: from the telepathic

alien 100 percent

668

Laura: In the closet.

669

Xhafer: in the closet.

670

Laura: The lead line closet, I hope.

671

Oh,

672

Xhafer: It'd be an aluminum,

he's wearing an aluminum hat.

673

Laura: course, of

674

Xhafer: He gets hair plugs

at one point in these books.

675

Laughs.

676

Laura: he really?

677

Xhafer: They make a joke about it.

678

Yeah, about how he had

hair, hair work done.

679

Laura: they just can't

stop taking shots at him.

680

Xhafer: No.

681

And so they kill the, the drach that

spawned it and then David's just fine.

682

The keeper just like crawls

up and falls off of them.

683

Laura: yeah, they're just all connected

to the drach that lives and if

684

the drach dies, then they all die.

685

Okay.

686

Xhafer: Yeah.

687

Laura: I don't know how telepathy works.

688

Telepathy and like parasitism?

689

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

690

But yeah that's effectively the books.

691

Laura: Hmm.

692

I remember really liking

these when I was younger.

693

Xhafer: when you read them, if you

really like Lando, they're great.

694

Cause you just get fun

Lando quotes a whole bunch.

695

It's just Lando being Lando

ing all over the place.

696

Laura: Yeah.

697

And I can't claim that I was like the

most sophisticated reader in the world

698

at, you know, 13 or whatever this was.

699

Xhafer: well, I mean, some

of it is like you were young.

700

Some of it is.

701

Looking at things through the modern lens

as opposed to the lens of 25 years ago.

702

Laura: Yeah, I'm, I would not have

clocked a 14 year old heaving her

703

breasts the same way for sure.

704

Xhafer: it hits different.

705

You know, they're books.

706

Laura: It sounds like a, it could be

a fun romp if you're really immersed

707

in the Babylon 5 universe and you

want more Babylon 5 like super bad.

708

Mm

709

Xhafer: mean, if I had to choose

between watching crusade again

710

or reading these books again,

711

I'd do neither, but

712

Laura: I'd probably read the books.

713

Xhafer: I might read the

techno mage books, but

714

Laura: I really want to read the

Technomage books, but I feel like

715

those are the hardest to find, right?

716

Xhafer: I've got the trilogy.

717

Laura: Do you really?

718

Xhafer: Yeah.

719

It was in that giant pile

of books that I found I

720

Laura: Oh, I remember that picture.

721

Xhafer: of the Babylon five books.

722

I'm missing

723

Laura: googling them.

724

I

725

Xhafer: two of the like movie

transcripts and of the numbered books.

726

I'm missing one, seven and eight, but I

have the rest of the Babylon five books.

727

Either in compilation or individual form.

728

Laura: feel like I might

have actually read these.

729

These covers look really familiar.

730

Like maybe the library had them

when I was a kid, but I have

731

no idea what the content is.

732

But it looks like maybe Morden

is on the cover of the first one.

733

Xhafer: So I don't know

anything about them.

734

I want, I do want to read if I read

any of them, I'm going to read uh, to

735

dream in the city of sorrows for sure.

736

Which is the Catherine Sakai

training to be a Ranger book

737

written by James's ex wife.

738

Laura: Yeah.

739

Xhafer: It's like the

one that's still Canon.

740

All right.

741

Well, yeah, those are the books.

742

They were okay.

743

Laura: Yeah.

744

Xhafer: I mean, I'd read them

over literary critic Bester again.

745

You

746

Laura: Yeah.

747

That was what I was going

to ask is like, how does it

748

compare to the Psycore trilogy?

749

Xhafer: know, I, I don't remember

how I felt about it at the time

750

and I'd have to go back and listen

to our episode, but I remember not

751

hating the second psych or book.

752

Laura: I remember enjoying the first one

a lot and that like, it was neat to have

753

all that table setting that we never got.

754

From Babylon 5 about like,

how did the telepaths happen?

755

You know, there were just sort

of references and this was

756

like in the trenches of it.

757

And I enjoyed the kind of quote

unquote twist ending of, you

758

know, ending on Bester's birth.

759

I thought that was fun.

760

Xhafer: Okay.

761

Yeah, no, it was fun.

762

Yeah, I liked a lot of that stuff.

763

Laura: I'm curious how

people rank these series.

764

Like if they,

765

Xhafer: I think the Centauri trilogy is

just widely considered to be the best,

766

Laura: Yeah,

767

Xhafer: is wild to me, but

768

Laura: It's the Lando.

769

It's the nostalgia for Lando and you,

I'm sure you read the whole thing.

770

I was anyway in Peter

jurassic's voice the whole time.

771

Xhafer: yeah.

772

A hundred percent.

773

Laura: Yeah, even fear.

774

I was pretty strong on that.

775

Xhafer: The viewers, I

mean, it's veers voice.

776

My problem is not veers voice.

777

It's veers plot

778

Laura: Yeah.

779

Xhafer: why they got to

do veer linear dirty.

780

Laura: Yeah.

781

Xhafer: That's what it felt like.

782

It felt linear dirty to me.

783

Laura: yeah, just the whole

involvement at all of Mary L with

784

beer because he kind of had a

785

hint.

786

At least Lando had warned him

like, She's, she's no good.

787

Like,

788

he seems too smart for that

789

by the end of Babylon

790

Xhafer: But he fucks up, I guess.

791

And he really fucks up.

792

He fucks up by getting involved

with her in the first place.

793

And then it just gets worse.

794

Every interaction.

795

Laura: Just like, how deep can we dig this

796

Xhafer: Yeah, it doesn't feel good.

797

Um, like it and it doesn't feel good.

798

So I feel confident in saying

that, that it's just not good.

799

Um, compared to like, at the end

of the books, he's like, He's

800

got to be like 45, 50, right.

801

Given 20 years after the end of the show

802

Laura: Which makes the whole

thing with Senna a little weird

803

Xhafer: that's exactly what I was

about to talk about because Santa's

804

like 20 at the end of those books.

805

Right.

806

Laura: Yeah, if she's 14 when she's found

in the first one, she can't be that much

807

Xhafer: Yeah.

808

If, if the entire things take place,

well, I guess if they take place

809

over 15 years, which I don't think

is the case, I think it's at most 10,

810

Laura: Yeah, but

811

if it is, even if it is

15, like, Veer's gotta

812

Xhafer: double her age.

813

Laura: Yeah.

814

yeah,

815

Xhafer: But I mean, I don't know.

816

Centauri culture brains

develop at different speeds.

817

They're aliens.

818

I'm trying not to be super judgmental,

been judging them by icky human standards,

819

but by human standards, it's fucking icky.

820

Laura: it's, it's not my favorite, no,

821

Xhafer: no, it's not.

822

Laura: especially because she

is found in such a vulnerable

823

place, too, an orphan, alone,

824

Xhafer: do a really good job of like,

that is not why she gets with Veer.

825

Like that's all very, very separated.

826

She meets Veer when she's young, a couple

of times when he comes to visit Londo, but

827

he's not like, it is not grooming at all.

828

Laura: Yeah, but she's still

a child when she meets him and

829

he is still a grown ass man.

830

But it also was not anything

like, you know, Londo has been

831

painted womanizer many, many times,

832

Xhafer: Yes.

833

And is, Oh, we didn't

even talk about Timoff.

834

Laura: Oh, yeah, tell me about T Muff.

835

Xhafer: At one point she like shows up at

the palace and it's just all like, Hey,

836

you're clearly fucked and I am your wife.

837

So I'm coming to visit

to see what's going on.

838

And they end up like

genuinely falling in love.

839

Yeah.

840

Londo, Londo dies, regretting having

had to have been cruel to her.

841

He like fakes a thing.

842

Where she's trying to kill him

so that she gets sent away.

843

So that way the keepers doesn't

get her because the Draka

844

are going to kill her ass.

845

So he like exiles her to save her

846

Laura: Yeah, she's too smart.

847

She's too smart to be around

848

Xhafer: a hundred percent.

849

They want to get rid of her immediately.

850

And he's all like, the

problem will resolve itself.

851

Right?

852

Like we hate each other.

853

And then it flash forwards

a year and she's been living

854

in the palace the whole time.

855

And they're like actually a couple.

856

Laura: hmm.

857

Xhafer: So he has to, you know, Get

rid of her before she finds out the

858

truth, but she knew the whole time

because she's not a fucking idiot.

859

And Londo's a fucking idiot.

860

And

861

Laura: She doesn't know the truth

about the, like, alien on his shoulder,

862

Xhafer: she is, she might not know the

exact details, but it is hinted that she

863

was aware that he was being controlled

in a way deeper than like blackmail,

864

Laura: Yeah,

865

Xhafer: um, he ends up calling her.

866

At like his 11th hour.

867

Like he knows he doesn't have long left.

868

Like he's everything is

clearly coming to a head.

869

He calls her just be like, Hey,

um, I'm calling to apologize.

870

Right?

871

But before he can say

anything, she interrupts.

872

It's like, so I guess

you've heard the news.

873

I've got terminal cancer and

I'm dying in three months.

874

Fuck you.

875

Lando.

876

And it's just like super

bitter towards him.

877

Has he like tries to apologize, but

to be honest, he doesn't deserve it.

878

The chance to apologize to her.

879

And so he doesn't really get a chance

to, but they kind of like half do it.

880

Um, and she ends up dying like moments

after him, she like survives long

881

enough to have outlived him, but

882

Laura: feels very like something

they would have like hinted at

883

in the episode with T Mob about

like, I'm going to live just long

884

enough to see you die or something.

885

That's a very fitting thing.

886

Xhafer: Yeah.

887

Laura: it is sad.

888

Londo's whole deal is sad.

889

I mean, I know that we see him

do horrific genocidal things,

890

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

891

Laura: but he started out a lovable

oaf and became something else.

892

Xhafer: Yeah.

893

Laura: I don't know.

894

Londo's hard.

895

Xhafer: Yeah.

896

I mean, Peter Jurassic does a

really good job of making him a

897

fun relatable character, despite

being a homicidal genocidal maniac.

898

So

899

good job, Peter.

900

Laura: It's just a lesson about don't

get obsessed with the way things were.

901

Xhafer: Yeah.

902

Laura: Like, fuck the way things were.

903

Xhafer: You want to make

Centauri prime great again?

904

Uh,

905

Laura: Yeah,

906

Xhafer: when was Centauri prime?

907

Great.

908

Just

909

Laura: yeah.

910

Xhafer: want to know exactly what

you're talking about, please.

911

Laura: Yeah, solid points.

912

. . Xhafer: Hey, this airs

before election day.

913

Listener.

914

Laura: It does.

915

Xhafer: So I'm going to urge you to vote.

916

I'm going to urge you to vote regardless,

because participating in democracy is

917

important to maintaining democracy.

918

And I think everyone wants

to maintain democracy.

919

If you don't want to retain democracy,

and you've listened to 148 episodes

920

of this podcast, let me be the

first to tell you to fuck off.

921

Laura: That's a weird thing to do.

922

Why are you so weird?

923

Xhafer: are you here?

924

Vic just doxed me on discord.

925

So I guess I'm fucked now.

926

Um,

927

no, go vote for real.

928

Um, if you aren't sure about.

929

A certain candidate, I implore

you to do actual research.

930

And when I say that, I don't mean

looking at one fucking website.

931

That's telling you how to think and

feel, because remember the news media

932

is not invested in informing you.

933

They're invested in retaining you.

934

Have I told you about the new website

I've been using to, I post about this

935

on Facebook a couple of days ago.

936

You might've seen it.

937

Laura: Oh, no, I don't

think I saw it though.

938

Tell me,

939

Xhafer: I I've been using a

website called ground news.

940

It's just ground.

941

news.

942

com.

943

And what they do is they aggregate all

of the articles relating to a news event.

944

So you get a very brief.

945

Incredibly fact based overview of what

the thing is and what is happening.

946

And then on the, underneath

that, they put all of the news

947

outlets that are reporting on it.

948

They put links to those articles

so that you can read what people

949

are actually saying about it.

950

And also all the news outlets are ranked

based off of left and right media bias.

951

So you can see who, what

side is reporting what.

952

And what site is notably

not reporting what,

953

Laura: oh, this is interesting,

especially, you know, if you heard

954

about this one, listener, I saw it

today that some mail in ballots were

955

specifically targeted and damaged

after somebody set them on fire

956

in a Democratic county in Arizona.

957

Um, You hadn't heard about that yet?

958

Oh, yeah, it's so cool.

959

The little slider bar at the bottom

960

Xhafer: but yeah, the Democrats are

famous for their voter fraud guys.

961

Laura: The, the slider bar at the bottom

shows that this has been reported by

962

left and center, not so much the red,

963

Xhafer: Yeah.

964

It's crazy how that

965

happens.

966

Right.

967

Laura: Yeah.

968

Xhafer: So.

969

If you, if you're not sure how to vote,

do your research, learn about your

970

candidates, you owe it to yourself

to be an informed voter listener.

971

Laura: Mm hmm.

972

Xhafer: Um, and if you are a listener

and you support fascism, I still think

973

you should vote, even if I completely

disagree with you and I don't know why

974

you're here, but voting is important.

975

Laura: Yeah.

976

It's, it's weird that you're here.

977

You should probably

978

Xhafer: It's so fucking weird.

979

You should probably leave,

980

please leave.

981

Laura: Ah, well, next time.

982

We're going to watch The Lost Tales,

983

Xhafer: Yeah, we got to

watch the lost tales.

984

I'm so sorry.

985

Laura: I suspect that that

will be an interesting episode.

986

If I can summon any of that up from my

memory, it is nothing but disappointment.

987

Xhafer: It's like 45 minutes long.

988

I think it's, I don't remember

it being particularly long.

989

Laura: No, no, it's like, if I remember

right, it's three short stories in a

990

show, and it was very disappointing.

991

Xhafer: It's time to go.

992

It's time to go to bed.

993

It's 10 30.

994

I'm

995

still jet lagged.

996

I've been up at like five every day at the

997

latest, just no alarm.

998

Just.

999

Up at three, up at four every day.

00:45:06,552 --> 00:45:07,622

Laura: that's rough.

00:45:07,637 --> 00:45:11,127

Xhafer: hoping that this drinking

gets me a good night's rest tonight.

00:45:11,932 --> 00:45:12,802

Laura: I hope so.

00:45:13,237 --> 00:45:16,597

Xhafer: Fingers crossed, just

like my fingers are crossed.

00:45:16,657 --> 00:45:19,057

Everyone's going to go listen

to the music of Jeremy Siegel.

00:45:19,417 --> 00:45:21,687

Cause Jeremy, he did our theme music.

00:45:21,697 --> 00:45:22,157

Has he?

00:45:22,672 --> 00:45:24,112

Done the new music

00:45:25,152 --> 00:45:29,802

Laura: I, I need to talk to him

about it because I sort of did

00:45:29,802 --> 00:45:31,212

and then I sort of forgot him.

00:45:32,622 --> 00:45:34,932

Xhafer: because you've

got like not a lot of

00:45:35,012 --> 00:45:38,532

Laura: We were, we were taking a

little break in between, right?

00:45:38,882 --> 00:45:39,382

Xhafer: Yeah.

00:45:39,422 --> 00:45:40,982

We're going to take a

little break in between.

00:45:40,982 --> 00:45:41,952

I

00:45:42,122 --> 00:45:42,352

Laura: good.

00:45:42,612 --> 00:45:46,272

Xhafer: think Jeremy, if you're

listening, I think you've got

00:45:46,302 --> 00:45:50,472

until I would say December 3rd, the

00:45:51,552 --> 00:45:51,942

Laura: I think,

00:45:52,202 --> 00:45:52,842

Xhafer: latest.

00:45:53,082 --> 00:45:56,342

Laura: I think Jeremy does listen to

this show cause he's a real mensch

00:45:56,632 --> 00:45:57,102

and he

00:45:57,132 --> 00:45:57,992

he listens even

00:45:58,072 --> 00:45:59,152

Xhafer: often, even though he

00:45:59,152 --> 00:45:59,422

doesn't

00:45:59,432 --> 00:45:59,672

Laura: though I

00:45:59,672 --> 00:46:00,332

never watched it.

00:46:00,692 --> 00:46:02,522

Xhafer: yeah, he listens to the show.

00:46:03,622 --> 00:46:06,842

So, you know, Jeremy yeah.

00:46:06,892 --> 00:46:07,022

Thank

00:46:07,022 --> 00:46:07,652

you so much.

00:46:07,652 --> 00:46:07,732

so much.

00:46:07,922 --> 00:46:08,437

You're a mensch.

00:46:08,437 --> 00:46:08,722

JeremySiegel42.

00:46:08,722 --> 00:46:10,402

Bandcamp.

00:46:10,402 --> 00:46:14,302

com where he's the only Jeremy

Siegel that makes music and then on

00:46:14,302 --> 00:46:16,002

streaming services is Nuclear Jaguar.

00:46:16,002 --> 00:46:16,772

Thanks so much.

00:46:17,207 --> 00:46:18,497

Laura: And, hey, guess what?

00:46:19,827 --> 00:46:23,197

I did talk to Angry Duck

Time Machine at at Instagram

00:46:23,397 --> 00:46:26,367

Xhafer: You sent me a little, you sent

me a little teaser that they had done.

00:46:26,367 --> 00:46:27,227

Is it done done?

00:46:27,797 --> 00:46:29,157

Laura: I, it's almost done done.

00:46:29,167 --> 00:46:34,267

They were, so Angry Duck Time Machine is

adding the title stuff for us this time.

00:46:34,267 --> 00:46:37,727

Last time I, I threw it in Canva,

you guys, and I made it and it

00:46:37,727 --> 00:46:41,577

was fine, I guess, but a real

artist is doing it this time.

00:46:41,577 --> 00:46:42,457

And I'm so excited.

00:46:42,517 --> 00:46:43,627

You're putting the title on.

00:46:43,757 --> 00:46:44,057

Xhafer: Thanks.

00:46:44,057 --> 00:46:45,207

Angry Duck Time Machine.

00:46:45,207 --> 00:46:48,327

Do you think Angry Duck Time Machine

has ever listened to this podcast?

00:46:48,337 --> 00:46:49,427

Laura: I don't think so.

00:46:49,427 --> 00:46:49,747

No,

00:46:49,897 --> 00:46:50,177

Xhafer: not.

00:46:50,187 --> 00:46:50,567

No.

00:46:51,487 --> 00:46:52,377

Laura: that's okay.

00:46:54,957 --> 00:46:55,787

Xhafer: Still a mensch.

00:46:56,227 --> 00:46:57,377

Laura: But thanks so much.

00:46:57,767 --> 00:47:02,897

And they're on Instagram,

if you need to find them.

00:47:02,997 --> 00:47:06,487

Xhafer: We got a little silly towards the

end, I trust your judgment on everything.

00:47:07,637 --> 00:47:10,397

Thank you so much for editing

this podcast and also having

00:47:10,397 --> 00:47:12,297

listened to the unshot scripts now.

00:47:13,177 --> 00:47:14,937

Good fucking job.

00:47:15,347 --> 00:47:17,547

A fucking plus.

00:47:18,097 --> 00:47:21,377

Laura: I, I, you know, we both

have this thing where we don't

00:47:21,387 --> 00:47:25,737

necessarily love to listen to our own

voices, but I could not stop myself.

00:47:25,737 --> 00:47:26,427

I had to.

00:47:26,427 --> 00:47:26,707

I was

00:47:26,767 --> 00:47:30,287

Xhafer: really enjoyed both the

script readings despite having

00:47:30,287 --> 00:47:31,577

to listen to my own voice.

00:47:31,597 --> 00:47:34,157

And that's a testament to your

work, thank you so much, Aaron.

00:47:34,912 --> 00:47:36,962

Laura: And thanks so much,

listener, for being here.

00:47:37,002 --> 00:47:41,152

I hope that you enjoyed the coverage of

these books and finding out some of the

00:47:41,162 --> 00:47:44,232

mysteries that got left by Babylon 5.

00:47:44,732 --> 00:47:47,745

And uh, if you haven't read the books,

you know, go get them, check them out.

00:47:47,937 --> 00:47:48,317

Uh,

00:47:48,362 --> 00:47:50,672

Xhafer: Very least read the first

two chapters of the first one.

00:47:51,097 --> 00:47:51,947

Worth your time.

00:47:52,407 --> 00:47:53,187

They're very good.

00:47:53,722 --> 00:47:54,362

Laura: a bomb.

00:47:54,392 --> 00:47:54,782

Yeah.

00:47:55,412 --> 00:48:01,482

So if you want to throw in any more

thoughts about Babylon 5 Get them in fast.

00:48:01,842 --> 00:48:04,972

Send them in through the

discord or whorub5 at gmail.

00:48:04,972 --> 00:48:09,690

com and uh, you know So we're going to

be heading on to Battlestar Galactica.

00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,190

I suppose if you have something

you want to share about that,

00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,170

remember that I haven't seen it yet.

00:48:16,130 --> 00:48:16,640

Xhafer: No

00:48:16,670 --> 00:48:17,460

Laura: there's something,

00:48:17,660 --> 00:48:19,170

Xhafer: on the discord

00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,890

Laura: no spoilies on the discord

00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:22,530

friends.

00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,710

Xhafer: rule for battle

for Battlestar Galactica.

00:48:25,950 --> 00:48:27,490

No spoilies on the discord.

00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:32,470

Um, we might have a, like we had for

Babylon five, we had a spoiler channel

00:48:33,050 --> 00:48:37,420

that will likely become the BSG I'll,

I'll do a little bit of work on the

00:48:37,420 --> 00:48:41,300

discord and clean up some of the channels

and we'll have Babylon five chats.

00:48:41,580 --> 00:48:44,900

Remain because we still love the show

and we still want to talk about it.

00:48:45,610 --> 00:48:47,620

We just have talked about everything.

00:48:47,870 --> 00:48:51,610

So, and we're not doing Babylon

five for the second time.

00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:51,850

So

00:48:54,250 --> 00:48:54,830

Laura: That's a different podcast.

00:48:54,830 --> 00:48:57,251

Bye.

00:48:57,385 --> 00:48:57,785

Xhafer: All right.

00:48:57,785 --> 00:48:58,135

Listener.

00:48:58,135 --> 00:48:58,955

Thanks so much.

00:48:59,035 --> 00:48:59,995

We'll see you next week.