In this episode of What the Health, John Salak talks with Saskia Salak, a research scientist at NYU's Energy, Climate Justice and Sustainability Lab, about the immediate health impacts of climate change. They discuss the growing awareness of climate change, international disparities in understanding its causes and the tangible health risks such as heat-related illnesses, respiratory issues from worsening air quality and the mental health implications of climate change. 

Personal and governmental actions to mitigate and adapt to these changes and actionable steps individuals can take are highlighted. The discussion emphasizes climate justice and addressing the disproportionate effects on vulnerable communities.

00:00 Introduction to the Climate Change Debate

01:26 Personal Impact of Climate Change

02:04 Guest Introduction: Saskia Salak

02:48 Saskia's Journey into Climate Work

04:22 Awareness and Perception of Climate Change

07:53 Defining Climate Change

09:31 Mitigation, Adaptation and Geoengineering

11:38 Challenges in Accepting Climate Change

17:47 Personal Health Impacts of Climate Change

26:59 Understanding the Impact of Fossil Fuels on Climate Change

27:49 The Connection Between Climate Change and Health Issues

27:58 Climate Change and Skin Cancer

28:24 The Role of Ozone and Greenhouse Gases

29:22 Wildfires, Pollution and UV Radiation

30:25 Vector-Borne Diseases and Climate Change

31:43 Food and Water Scarcity

33:41 Mental Health and Climate Change

37:06 Climate Justice and Vulnerable Communities

39:02 China's Role in Climate Change

41:09 Personal Actions Against Climate Change

43:40 Misconceptions and Optimism About Climate Change

46:18 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Don't miss an episode of What The Health. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast app to get the latest news and insights on health and wellness issues delivered right to your device.

Connect with WellWell USA:

• Website: https://wellwellusa.com/ 
• Join WellWell-Being: https://wellwellusa.com/register/ 
• All Things WellWell USA: https://linkin.bio/wellwellusa 

Connect with NYU's Energy, Climate Justice and Sustainability Lab:

• Website: https://www.sps.nyu.edu/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/NYUSPS_ECJS_Lab/ 
• Linked-in: https://www.linkedin.com/company/nyu-sps-center-for-global-affairs/

John Salak: It's pretty hard to miss the whole climate change debate. Regardless of whether you believe in climate change or not, it has become a front and center social and political issue. For the general public, even its most fervent supporters, its consequences are often framed in references to soaring global temperatures, melting polar ice caps, rising sea levels, and an apparent increase in extreme weather conditions.

All this begs the question of whether climate change presents an immediate health risk to Americans. And if there are tangible risks, what are they? Not surprisingly, I think these are pretty good questions, which, if answered, may help clarify what's really at stake for the Hoi Poloi. Thankfully, we've identified someone who can supply some of these answers and perhaps explain why climate change isn't just a world or national issue, but also a local issue.

Today we're talking about climate change, obviously, and whether or not it has a personal immediate health impact for people. Our guest today is Saskia Salak, who is a research scientist at New York University's Energy, Climate Justice and Sustainability Lab.

And in full disclosure, so everyone knows Saskia is my daughter. So that's why our names are the same but Saskia is not here as a nepo baby interview, she is actually here because she's incredibly well versed on some of the issues that we're going to talk about today.

So Ms. Salak, welcome to What the Health.

Sakia Salak: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

John Salak: All right. Tell us a little bit how you got into climate work or sustainability because it's an interesting trajectory for I think a lot of people your age

John Salak: Quite a good school, isn't it

Sakia Salak: It's a good school. It's a good school. Yes. I don't know if you've heard of it. But I was always interested in climate and the environment.

But when I was growing up, those paths weren't necessarily established in the same way that they are today. So, people who were following environmental focus trajectories were more looking at environmental law or the science side of it and that didn't necessarily feel like the avenue I wanted to explore.

But what I learned was I didn't necessarily have the right experience and knowledge to make that transition seamlessly. So, I went back and got my master's at NYU center for global affairs. And I concentrated on energy and environmental policy.

John Salak: We want to talk about climate, change . There's a great awareness of the phrase, at least the wording and terminology whether people accept climate change for what they believe it may be or not.

Do you believe though, there's Yeah, a realization, because this is, what's at stake when it comes to climate change?

Sakia Salak: I think that's a great question. I think we should actually take a step back and talk about the awareness because I think that's really important. There's more awareness that there ever has been and that's something we can feel in our lived experience. So if you're looking at media coverage, extreme weather emissions tracking climate policy, even the cops have a really dominant presence in our news cycle.

So we do see this like growth of knowledge. But then it's also important to think internationally. So again, in the developed world, so that's North America, Europe, Japan, more than 90 percent of the public is aware of climate change. But then when we start to consider the developing world, that changes significantly.

And you have countries like Egypt, Bangladesh India, where 65 percent of the population haven't heard of climate change. They don't have any awareness. And so when we take all of these countries into consideration, we see the global average is about 40 percent of adults haven't heard of climate change.

And I think it's really important to note that that is something that over 80 percent of parents and teachers want. They're supportive of that. So now when we get to this idea of, of what's at stake, I think it gets a little bit more complicated and the perception changes a little bit. And that's, that's understandable. Like you said, it's not everybody's a subject matter expert, nor do they need to be. It's hard to wrap your head around some of the scientific elements of climate change and also the scale and the scope of the impact. So it's hard to think about what do melting ice caps and rising sea levels, how is that going to affect me? And also kind of understand the scope [00:07:00] of the damage. It's also unpleasant. It's not a pleasant thing to think about. So again, one of the, the polls that we see out of the Yale program on climate communications is that while Americans recognize the glowing threat of climate change, 70 percent of people think of it in the context of it affecting future generations.

I would say about 57 percent I believe is the number. Think that it is going to harm others in the United States now or in the next 10 years. And then about 46%, so less than half the population think it is going to impact them directly. When we think about that jump from the 70 percent of the future generations to the less than half who think it's going to, who feel that impact, that's significant.

Sakia Salak: So, we'll look at it at a couple different levels. Climate change refers to a shift in global climate patterns over the last century tied to greenhouse gas emissions from human activity. That's the textbook definition. We want to put it a little bit more simply. The climate is changing and it is the result of man made activity.

That's kind of the meat that you want to get to. Now when we want to talk about the scope of what is included with that, as you've already alluded to, it's, it's significant. There's a lot covered there. So that includes things like rising temperatures tipping points, like the melting ice caps. The deterioration of natural carbon sinks.

And then another element that I don't know that enough people are familiar with is forced migration, and that as more and more territory becomes uninhabitable due to climate change, you're going to have large portions of people who are displaced and climate migrants.

So, I think, personally, I find another way to sort of contextualize climate change is to think about the response. And, and there's really two responses to climate change, kind of two and a half. And the first is mitigation. So that approach looks at how do we lessen or mitigate the things that are driving climate change.

And it's, it's generally, not exclusively understood in terms of limiting emissions. So an example of that would be replacing something like a coal plant with a solar power plant or another form of renewable. So that's an example of mitigating.

Sea levels are up. Our coastal communities are no longer safe. And in order to protect them, we are going to put a seawall to act as a barrier so that we can live in this new climate. And there was a time where people pushed this idea that we really just need to focus on mitigation so that we don't get to adaptation.

And the reality is now we can no longer not pursue adaptation policy. Our climate has already changed and we need to incorporate this into our reality. And then there's the last version, which I sort of hesitate to mention, but and that's geoengineering. And this is the idea to reverse adaptation.

Again, not something that's really happening right now. However, I'm calling it out because I do think that it's going to be a part of the conversation as the climate narrative evolves.

People see that and they say, well, things are always changing. This just isn't another pattern? So I guess the bigger question, is why does so many not accept it?

Sakia Salak: I think this kind of goes back to one of those earlier statistics where again, you have like, almost three quarters of Americans think that climate change is happening. And you've got that 60 percent that recognize it as a man made phenomenon, which we, now understand is a crucial part of the definition.

It has to consider that man made phenomenon. That's the textbook definition. And then we've got this 40% of Americans and about 14 percent see no evidence of climate change. Those would be climate deniers. They don't believe it. And then you've got this 26%, and I believe that's the group that you're referring to who again recognize that the climate is changing.

And before we get into the interviews I think part of the reluctance to accept the man made phenomenon is because if we accept that the climate is changing and the driver is man made, then the reaction has to be a change in individual behaviors and habits, in addition to government and collective efforts.

It's seen as being biased or having agenda And and that's a huge problem when it is one of the groups that is tasked with providing crucial Information on the topic and that can be anything from A disaster is coming. here's what to expect. Here's the damage, think fire or flood. It can also be challenging when we're talking about measuring emissions.

And I think the other thing that's tricky, and you've kind of, pointed this out already, but not everybody needs to be an expert unless you're someone like me, who's in the field and a researcher, chances are, you're not going to read the fifth national climate assessment and that's okay.

So you've got that happening. As I mentioned earlier, Americans are very sensitive to their individual freedoms and choice, and we see that play out in this space as well. So we're really open to climate policy as long as it's not infringing. So you see support for things that are more, like, opt in or choice.

So Americans are supportive of recycling or limiting waste. But, if you see something like a policy that looks to eliminate gasoline engines, that's something that's going to get a lot of pushback. And it's also something that is actively being explored federally and in many states.

And again, not that you're looking for an additional layer of complexity, but we also have to take into account emotion. Just even looking specifically at vehicles and fuel and gasoline. Americans have this really deep emotional connection to gasoline. We're really sensitive to it.

There's this long pride and history associated with American made manufacturing within the automobile industry.

My larger point to this is that [00:17:00] climate policy and adoption is complicated and emotional and nothing really happens in a vacuum.

John Salak: One of the things that you sort of alluded to And didn't touch on I've learned never to speak for you, it's also become a political issue,

We want to get into a different issue going forward.

And yes, if you live near the coast. And, you have a house near the coast, and let's say you're fortunate enough to have a house in Nantucket, or you're on the Outer Banks, or you just happen to be in Florida, somewhere near the coast, you can see maybe the personal impact of climate change, or you're in a weather area. But if you're not confronted with those sort of changes, immediately and you just see them on television. Are there more unrealized personal health risks that are attributed to climate change that people may not connect to?

Rising temperatures that's a real concern for people on a personal health issue. Can we connect that to climate change?

Sakia Salak: Yes, I would challenge that we are all experiencing the effects of climate change to varying degrees of severity.

in the U. S. 57 percent of weather stations have reported a decline in snow since the 1930s. Not that that's my childhood. I would look but , 80 percent of states are reporting a decrease in the proportion of participation falling as snow. But we can get less anecdotal than that.

And the 5th National Climate Assessment highlights that one of the most frequent ways that Americans are going to feel the impact of climate change is through the frequency and intensity of extreme weather. So you know, you're talking about floods and degradation, but I think it's more common than maybe you realize.

So a climate disaster in one state or one territory can affect people in a different one. And a great example here is wildfires. So wildfires burning in one area, the smoke can carry down and affect people in a different areas where the fires aren't burning. And again, as an example, I'm here in New Jersey, right by about two miles outside of New York City.

And if you want to take another step back, if you're like, that's still too close, that's not enough people, which I would argue you're wrong. A lot [00:21:00] of people are experiencing climate in this way, but if we, again, if we want to take another step back from it about how you're going to get hit by climate change, as I've already mentioned, it's expensive.

The damage that climate change causes is really, really expensive. So ways that you're going to feel that expense is potentially through taxes as your community is looking to install climate resilient infrastructure or simply recover from the damage. Another thing to think about again, if we just want to go one level back insurance, let's just look at flooding.

So one flooding insurance is now more expensive because it's happening more frequently and areas that historically would not have required flood insurance Are going to and again, that's just flooding. So just things to keep in mind when we talk about the impact.

fire

Sakia Salak: I think, I think that is a challenge. I think, again, that's kind of the side of it where the scientific element comes into play and it can be a little bit complicated to try and grapple with or understand how the climate changing is going to increase the frequency and severity of these events.

And I think that's fair. I think that's probably more of a challenge for Maybe that 26 percent of Americans who think it's a natural system. I think people who are open to the belief that climate change is real and happening now are more able to accept that.

We want to explore if there are other personal health impacts that people may not associate with climate change that are real and very personal. And we can lump two of these together, one rising heat and what that does to you personally. Europe reported that almost 50, 000 people died in year because of the extreme heat conditions.

certainly have reported on the impact of heat on, outdoor workers . So what's the impact of heat on people? And we can tie this together a little bit with air quality. Is climate impacting the quality of heat?

Is this leading to other conditions that are very personal to me that again, I may not recognize is maybe a byproduct of climate change.

Sakia Salak: So heat. I'm so glad that you brought that up because it's I think it's something that climate scientists have been warning about for decades, and unfortunately, it is here now, and it is an active part of our reality.

By 2023, that number has gone up to 23, 000, 300. Okay, so that's like a significant jump in only three years. Heat does increase risk of hospitalizations for heart disease. Heat exhaustion can lead to heat stroke, which can then lead to brain injury or death.

You certainly have asthma worsening as heat increases. Of course we have dehydration, which is dangerous in and of itself, but then can then lead to kidney and blood pressure problems. And then there's also mental health and substance use. Including loss of sleep and slowing of brain function.

And then the other thing to consider is also access to cooling, right? So you have a lot of cities. setting up public cooling centers for people to come in and cool down because they understand the risk. The other part of that is, not everyone has access to air conditioners. 11 percent of American households don't have an air conditioner and 5 percent of households can't afford to turn one on.

And that number grows significantly when we are talking about Black and Hispanic households. And so again, when we talk about all of these issues, the justice element is incredibly important. If we want to go into air quality, and again, I'll keep it relatively tight, but according to the UNEP, 99 percent of people breathe air that's higher than what the World Health Organization recommends through its safety guidelines, and that's going to lead to air pollution.

So not only go outside, but is it safe to like work out outside or do labor outside? It's a little surreal to think about. Imagine 10 years ago being like, I don't know if I can go outside. I need to check the air quality first, but that's just a part of our normal life. But you know, of course, again, prolonged exposure here can impact your heart and your lungs and lead to heart attack and then stroke among other things.

John Salak: Pollution obviously impacts air quality. And pollution impacts climate change. And I'm just making sure I'm getting this correctly. And I assume I am.

Sakia Salak: I think that's a tricky question to answer. Maybe a better way to reposition it mentally would be that the production of all of the fossil fuels is a great example. As we are producing fossil fuels, we're releasing all of this stuff into the environment, which is contributing to global warming significantly and also creating subpar air quality.

John Salak: In other words, the elements that contributes to climate change are impacting our air quality

And I'm trying to establish or identify if it's true, what climate change means on a very personal level, because people may not connect these things. It's warmer and that's a dangerous thing.

We know a lot of people who suffer from skin cancer. Is there a relationship between climate change, whether it's the impact on the ozone layer or something else, or whether it's the factors that are fostering climate change.

Skin cancer is one of the most , predominant cancers in the country. It's not always fatal, only certain aspects are, but what's the connection between rising skin cancer and climate change. ,

Sakia Salak: Climate is a massive space, so people tend to specialize in different areas. In terms of understanding, I do think it's helpful to understand the connection between the ozone and global warming, so I'm just going to speak to that really quickly.

However, they represent a really small proportion of greenhouse gases, so that the connection isn't really as prominent. And also, , the hole in the ozone actually has a slight cooling effect on the climate, something like 2% in terms of the impact of climate on radiation, or radiation on UV rays, I would imagine the way it affects cloud cover could come into play.

The other thing that I would call out which again I would recommend doing some more research, but it's super interesting. Ironically things like smoke from wildfire and pollution acts kind of like a cloud cover in and of itself and prevents UV rays from coming in. Something I would point out just as a helpful tool to people listening is, on your, on your phone, if you look at the weather app, it gives you an hour by hour temperature and, and all of that. It actually also calls out UV radiation.

Do I have a hat? Do I have sunscreen? Do I have those things to make sure that I'm safe in this new climate?

John Salak: All right. We wrote a story in WellWell a month or two ago that talked about, and this gets a little bit back to temperature, warming waters, that sort of stuff. It's been reported many times, warming temperatures, both in terms of water and air seem to accelerate vector borne diseases.

Insects is this something that, that you would agree with? You see, this is a personal health impact?

And that would include things like Lyme disease, waterborne diseases, like you mentioned mosquito borne diseases, such as malaria and dengue fever. So those are, those are sort of things. And again, I can't speak too much to it outside of that, but just to give you a little bit of context there.

John Salak: And that again is a direct health impact or health for I mean, there was just a warning issued for North America on increased dengue fever and malaria because of the increased range of these problems. Can you comment at all about food safety? And what climate maybe, and we're not trying to cover everything.

We're just trying to make this personal. It can you fill us in on what to best of your ability is the impact of climate change on food safety, which is a health issue.

Supply goes down, right? That's like basic economics. So scarcity issues in one region can affect prices in others. I'm going to tackle water really quickly as well because it's related. Heat leads to more evaporation. So we have less water, which is problematic in a lot of different ways.

It's really hard to grow without water. But when we think about agriculture population growth has required that we have more food. And so we've seen, understandably so, the rise and dominance of large scale commercial farming and through that chemical fertilizer.

It's depleted. That's where you have these scarcity issues come on. And then beyond that, once the soil is depleted, it's no longer able to store carbon. And it's our second largest carbon sinks. You People think about like trees being able to store carbon.

Soil store more carbon than forest. just again to contextualize it for you. So to put a more positive spin on this, when we think about food and access to food and prices there is tremendous opportunity to incorporate regenerative agricultural practices to sort of restore this balance.

John Salak: There's been a lot written about how people feel mentally about some of the challenging issues. We face there is great mental strain over politics in the States and regardless of where you are

Sakia Salak: Yeah.

John Salak: there's so much concern about climate change.

What about depression and anxiety being a byproduct of these changes? And I know it's not your,

But in the space we call this climate doom or climate fatalism, and it's sort of this concept, like, of course, as you mentioned, it's like the stress and anxiety. And because of that, people take the stance of we're too far gone. There's nothing left to do. I should just throw my hands up. And breaking that narrative is so crucial to any sort of success that we are going to have in this space, because what we need is action and action.

Every single level of society. We need more action. So what we need to do is replace Climate fatalism and climate doom with climate realism. So what can we do? You also have a mental health crisis arising from people who have survived Climate disasters.

I don't think it is, and I think it's only going to get larger. Mm

John Salak: So you're talking about younger people, your generation, a little before, a little after seeing climate change in almost a doom scenario. my generation and people around my age, it might've been nuclear proliferation

Sakia Salak: sure.

John Salak: as a, as a doom.

Now you could argue we're no better off in nuclear proliferation now than we were 30 or 40 years ago or 50

Sakia Salak: Feel a little better off,

John Salak: Although maybe not much, but anyway we survived, you know what I mean? Is it a natural and maybe we won't survive much longer. And I don't mean to say that lightly, but do you think it's a natural progression?

John Salak: Right.

Sakia Salak: but the impact, the difference is that, with the nuclear issues, you're not seeing the degradation happen around you. You're not

seeing conditions worsen.

Meanwhile, with climate change, we are seeing our cities burn. We're seeing our forests burn. We're breathing toxic air.

You're having thousands and thousands of people more. I don't have the number in front of me who have to give up their homes, who are being forced into migration.

It's a very, very different issue.

So I'm not, I hear you that each group has its own crisis that it has to face, but I don't think that these are comparable.

John Salak: okay. All Right. Do you think any, any group is particularly more at risk from the personal health impacts of climate change? I mean, there's the wide impacts, but our children, the elderly, those with chronic diseases, that sort of thing.

Children, of course. when we think of things like air quality, people who are outside more. Same thing with various forms of exposure. Yeah. The overarching theme through all of this, and it's, I, I've kind of alluded to it before, but I really wanna hammer it down, is that climate change affects different people differently, and certain communities face disproportionate.

and damages of climate change. And when we talk about that here in the United States, that is communities that are low income communities of color often immigrant communities that don't have proficiency in English. These are communities that not only continue to face the brunt of the damage, but then lack the resources to recover.

And internationally, we call this the climate fragility and vulnerability nexus. And when we're talking about it here, we talk about vulnerable communities and we talk about it in the lens of climate justice and you really can't have a conversation about climate change without incorporating climate justice.

Sakia Salak: I would argue that China is actually, despite having high emissions, one of the leaders in terms of implementation.

John Salak: Interesting. Can, can you, and I know this isn't part of it, but it's an interesting point. Can you, can you summarize that a little bit more? Because China gets a lot of, a lot of

Sakia Salak: Yeah, of course, China, China's a big polluter, but in terms of like the scale of clean technology that's been established and created, China's the leader in electric vehicles, and they have been for the long time. China's a leader in solar panels. You have large portions of China that do run on coal, but they've also installed, I think, probably at a, at a volume standpoint, more renewables than anyone else.

And so local Industries can't compete with them

John Salak: I guess what I was trying to say too, is a lot of countries, at least from what I've read, and certainly you're, you're closer to it. A lot of countries almost can't afford to put in Or address some of their climate issues because their economies are based on pumping out aspects.

And so China

Sakia Salak: Yeah, china's probably a bad example, but there are other countries, where that that very much is true and you have

John Salak: It may be India.

Sakia Salak: Yeah,

I mean, I think you have places in Africa that are very I think I believe Nigeria has like a large LNG infrastructure and have to double check that.

John Salak: On an individual level, a personal level, what would you recommend people do?

Sakia Salak: Climate Week here in New York City is an opportunity for organizations to host various events and showcase the work that they're doing. So I would encourage people and your listeners to get curious, figure out what's happening in your community, go attend. Learn about these events and get inspired because a lot of the topics that we've covered today are somewhat heavy.

And almost a pessimistic approach, but I can't emphasize enough how much progress is happening in the space and how exciting it is. In terms of just like personal changes that people can make, I always suggest doing like an audit of your lifestyle and consumption habits.

Do you have an outdoor space? Can you plant some native species that attract pollinators? There's no shortage of things that you can do on a personal level. And a lot of them don't really require. you necessarily giving anything up. So certainly I would, I would explore that. If you're feeling inspired, go talk to, your local representatives, ask them what they're doing regarding climate change.

Ask for more. You have a right to demand more. You have a right to demand clean air and clean water. So again, if you feel inspired, get involved. We need more of everything on every level.

They have to be all in or they're not or they're going to be shamed. You know what I mean? but he said that's not really the case. You can start with small steps He mentioned reusable packaging. , .

Sakia Salak: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think, of course, as a climate activist, we want more, but we will take whatever we can get at an individual level. So join, join the movement in any way that you can.

Any action is welcome.

John Salak: Okay. So, I mean, we've covered a lot of ground here. So one last question. I'm going to sort of put two questions together. One, what are the biggest misconceptions? Around the impact of climate change, and I want to go back to the personal impact. So somebody feels this. What are some of the biggest misconceptions?

And two, I'm surprised that while you've identified a lot of problems and challenges and the personal impact, you also seem pretty optimistic. So there's sort of like, Okay.

But you seem optimistic. So when what are the biggest misconceptions? And what do you think we're going to see in five or 10 years?

Sakia Salak: Yeah. All right. So let's start with the first one, the biggest misconception. 70 percent of people in America think that climate change is going to affect future generations and that's who's going to be hit.

So part one, understand that it is happening and that it is happening to you now, even if it's not at the scale that you see on TV, you're still experiencing it. So I would take, I would say that that's part of it. while also holding space and recognizing that while it is happening to you, it is also happening to other people disproportionately.

Climate jobs are huge. There's so much opportunity for people to be a part of the solution. So I'm, I'm very, very optimistic about the future. I don't think it's going to be an easy road but I certainly think. We have the potential to be successful and we don't have any choice but to be optimistic and but to fight for it.

Saskia thank you very much. Where would you recommend, Saskia and Salak, of working with NYU's? Give me the name of the lab again.

Sakia Salak: Energy, Climate Justice and Sustainability Lab.

John Salak: Is there information should people visit the website

Sakia Salak: Sure. So to learn about the lab I'll share our website in the detail, but it's the Energy, Climate Justice and Sustainability Lab at NYU. There's only one with a name like that. I would hope so. In terms about getting involved and learning more about Climate Week, there is a website which is going to highlight lots and lots of different events that are happening.

So thank you very much for being part of our broadcast.

Sakia Salak: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. \

John Salak: Before we move on we want to again encourage listeners to take advantage of the hundreds of exclusive discounts Wellwell offers on a range of health and wellness products and services These cover everything from fitness and athletic equipment to dietary supplements personal care products organic foods and beverages and more Signing up is easy and free Just visit us at WellWellUSA.

com, go to Milton's Discounts in the top menu bar, and the sign up form will appear. Signing up just takes seconds, but the benefits can last for years.

If there isn't a lot of overt good news in these realizations, there is at least optimism in knowing that more people than ever are aware of the potentially devastating impact these changes herald. Optimism also springs from knowing that more avenues than ever are open to people of all ages and backgrounds to get involved in climate change initiatives on a policy, professional, and personal level.

Ultimately, for all the potential dangerous concerns, there is rising optimism in some quarters that people and governments are increasingly ready to face these challenges head on. Well, that's it for this episode of What the Health. We'd like to thank our very special guest Saskia Salek. Of NYU's Energy, climate Justice, and Sustainability Lab for taking the time to provide a deep dive into how climate change is a multifaceted health risk for all of us.

Finally, thanks again for listening to this episode of What the Health. We hope you'll join us again soon.