Full show notes for this episode can be found at https://jakehower.com/how-to-build-a-successful-webinar-campaign-with-jamie-mckean/

In today's show.

We're speaking with Jamie McKean from technology for coaches, a company, which

as the title suggests, provides technology assistance for business coaches.

Okay.

So in today's show, we're speaking about how Jamie.

Has helped his clients to automate webinars, to improve the sales

for his customers and clients.

And of course, to provide a better solution for all webinar attendees.

So let's get stuck straight into today's episode and welcome back to the show.

Listen, as discussed at the top of the episode, we've got Jamie McKean

from technology for coaches on a line.

Jamie, how are you?

Yeah, I'm good today.

So yeah,

fantastic.

It's a nice Melbourne morning brisk and the middle of

winter, but I certainly can't

complain.

You're probably in shorts and a t shirt whereas we're in New Zealand,

it's just damp and all the gray.

And anyway, carry on.

That's interesting.

Cause you're obviously a Pom and you've moved to New Zealand.

I would have thought you would have gone somewhere tropical or something like that.

How long have we got on the call?

All right.

So in today's episode, the reason we've got Jamie on the line listener is that

Jamie's an expert in providing technology for coaches and around automation.

So we're going to delve into a little bit about Jamie and look at how

he goes about automating webinars.

So Jamie, why don't you kick off by telling us exactly who you are,

where you've been and what you're

doing now.

Hi, my name's Jamie.

I feel like I'm stood up in a room with a circle of people.

My name's Jamie and I have a problem.

No, I don't really.

Not many times of the day.

Jamie, as you say, a palm in New Zealand there's a whole story on

my about page on jamie mckean.

com of how I got drunk one night and woke up in New Zealand.

But my background for the past probably past five or six years has been helping

entrepreneurs with marketing and for the past 15 years, self taught technologist.

So when you then put those two together.

I've been told there's not many people in the world who can do both at an

expert level, so that's what I do, and the reason why there's a focus on

coaches is because as an ex business consultant and coach myself, the more

coaches I can help on a technology front.

The more they can help other people, so it's the, paying it forward or

helping multiply whatever the term is, which is why the focus on coaches and

technology for coaches dot com was born and my team of 12 today and growing.

Dedicated to helping coaches worldwide get ahead with technology.

Yeah, that's fantastic.

I guess the coaching industry, it's the reason that we're talking now is the fact

that you and your clients do a lot of webinars and I guess the coaching niche

is one where you are generating a lot of leads and holding a lot of webinars.

So what have you found, from your large suite of clients, what's

generally their biggest issue around technology and marketing?

How long have we got again?

Let's go back to the first question.

It was easier.

I guess there's different types of coaches and there's coaches who just

don't want to know about technology.

They're very good at what they do, but technology is just too hard.

Don't want to know about it versus the other scale where there's coaches who are

trying to get ahead with technology and trying to put the right things in place.

Now, when we apply this to your webinars and the marketing side of things.

Most people out there don't realize in a simple sense, how long it

takes to do a really good webinar.

Some people think I'll just whack a webinar together and just deliver it.

And then they look at some of the top performers out there and think,

why are they making so much money and how come they're doing so well?

And that's because those top performers have looked at a webinar as a

whole system and they've built it.

With a view for a medium to long term view that they're not just building as

a one off the building it to repeat it because you probably had and quite a lot

of the listeners will probably know that it takes two or three or four webinars

to get in a really good flow delivering a webinar which means you really good

delivering it you get better responses of the attendees and assuming it's a sales

webinar you gonna get higher conversion because it takes those two to three to

get those good results the longer term.

So the thought leaders in the space know that actually, how do I

build a system around this webinar?

How can I plug in the right emails at the front?

How can I plug in the right sets of emails and sequences off the back to

then make sure that when I deliver it next time, the second and the third and

the fourth time it's left less effort.

Building those mechanics around it and more focusing on the pure delivery to

get the better performance results.

Yeah, sure.

Sure.

So it does.

It makes a lot of sense.

So I guess saying that there'll be a number of components that

you could look at when looking at a webinar and a webinar series.

Would I be close in saying that.

You'd almost say it's pre webinar, during webinar and after webinar

as the three main components.

You'd

probably add another one up the front, which is to get

people to sign up to the webinar.

Sure.

So to promote the webinar.

Yep.

And then that, they would be the four, yes.

All right.

Fantastic.

How about we go through all of those stages and we'll focus mainly in

this interview on the pre webinar, like in terms of the automation

and again, the post webinar, but we'll touch off on all four stages.

So let's start with stage one, getting people onto a

webinar.

So I guess the, and some of this is borrowed from my

friend Taki Moore by the way.

So I'll give credit where credit's due up the front, and that's how

you and I met with doing some of the automation on Taki's side of things.

But from a front end, we have the promote of getting people to

actually sign up to the webinar.

So that's a probably two or three email campaign going out to your

existing list, whether it's to your existing list or via JVs.

To get people to sign up, how detailed do we want to get here on the technology?

By the way,

I don't think we need to go too detailed on the technology.

I think there are solutions that you can probably brush over as to how you

can connect everything and whatever, not, it's probably more the actual

meat in terms of the flow of emails, et cetera, or how you actually go about

attracting and encouraging people to sign up and then join in on the webinar.

I think that's the real

key takeaway.

Okay, cool.

Like as well, probably from an overview, I did this recently with one coach

and we mapped out all of these stages.

And I think from memory, those 19 emails across the whole campaign.

So straight away, that gives you an indication of how much there

is going on in the background.

So you have your first two or three emails to get people to sign up and at the sign

up I've seen on your blog, you've had clay Collins on lead pages, great tool.

You want to use it this is assuming that you're using either office autopilot or

infusion soft and you're looking to use go to webinar so lead pages is a great

fit for that get them to sign up lead pages and then in your office autopilot

let's just focus on office autopilot from a conversation you don't have a number

of it's called stick emails or show up emails to get someone to show up because.

People may get a hundred people sign up and then wonder why only 15 people show up

so it's having two to three emails talking about the benefits and the best things

that they're going to get out of this to make them want to take that emotional

leap in a sense and the commitment to spend the time with you on the webinar.

Sure

so in those emails you actually including the link

to join in each one or is it more just building up to it and as you

get closer you start including

the link.

You'd probably put once they've registered you put a link to join in all of them.

Just because that someone may think when they come to attend, I'll

just search for such and such, and they just want to find it easily.

So you put the link in everyone now, how to do that with, if we were

using go to webinar, when people sign up, go to webinar, normally

sends out their own emails and quite a lot of people just rely on those.

Whereas what you want to do, especially with our new ability via

fused, which is a great little tool.

Is allow that when they sign up fused can put the actual join URL into their

contact record in office autopilot and therefore you can write the emails

to three or four emails with their unique link inside of their email.

So that's what I do.

Sure.

And I guess so I'm looking at it from the bias perspective as the the founder

refused, but certainly this was a feature request requested by Taki himself.

And prior to that, I would have personally just been using the

go to webinar reminder email.

So what is, the one key.

Component of what would you want to be sending out your own email?

So it's against letting go to webinar handle that for you.

That's a

great question.

Now, as a listener, if you're listening to this and all you do is let go to webinar

go out, imagine for the person receiving those, if they go to a few webinars and

that's all they get is those standard go to webinars, it just washes over them.

It's the same as getting junk mail.

It just washes over them.

There's nothing different.

Whereas if you write your own.

Then you can really be talking to their emotional hot buttons.

You can really be getting them excited about the event.

You can be delivering them some pre event information.

You can be just talking about scarcity.

You can be talking about all the different things you'd use in

copywriting to get someone to attend.

That's why you'd move away from the go to.

Meeting and go to webinar ones and do your own.

Okay, that's

fantastic.

So you've got, did you say four or five

emails?

Yeah, it depends on the time timeframe.

You probably want to send one every couple of days.

And then when you get closer, you start doing a countdown.

So you'd say it's on tomorrow and then four hours to go and then one hour to go.

And if you've set it up, you can even send SMS as a reminder, which

we've had great success with because SMS has such a good open rate.

Yep.

And is that using something like a call loop dot

com?

That could be.

Yep.

There's a few different systems out there that you connect

either OAP or Infusionsoft to.

Yeah.

Okay.

Listener, I'm just going to get a little bit

meta here just for a second.

So bear with, I think this is important.

So building out this campaign sequence, you talk about doing a bit of a countdown.

Let's for against maintaining office autopilot through the conversation, the

emails, do you have them timed to send out a certain amount of time before a.

Specific date and time or is that based on whenever the user

registers?

No, great question.

There's two questions that are probably in people's head.

One question will be, how come you send in so many bloody emails?

Number one.

And the second question is exactly what you've just said.

How would you do it to make sure it's right?

I'll do the, I'll do them in order.

My answer, my own questions in order.

The first one is.

You have to remember from a marketing perspective that

they've asked to be there.

So really you're doing a reminder service to help them get there.

You're not spamming them.

You're not bugging them.

It's really interesting that when you look at campaigns that might send four, five,

six messages to remind someone, there's very small amounts of unsubscribes.

And if any, usually zero complaints because people have asked to be

there and that you reminding them.

So that's number one, you're doing them a service.

Technically.

The second one is using office autopilot.

We use a date sequence versus a step sequence and what we need to create.

And we'll add a feature request after this interfused, but what you need to

create to start is a rule inside of office autopilot, which says when someone

subscribes to this, then, and you have a, an event, you add the events inside

of office autopilot of the day and the time of the webinar as an event, and

then you add a rule to say when they sign up on this form at this event,

timestamp to their contact record, and then that event Stamp is used in the

date sequence to count them down from the event so that means everyone gets

the same four days to go three days to go one day to go four hours to go

and it's all timed correctly fantastic

and that makes a lot of sense i can see exactly

where you're coming from there.

All right.

So that's fantastic.

Okay.

So from sign up leading up to, let's say, do you start sending

emails two weeks prior a week prior?

How frequent are they leading up to the webinar?

Yeah, again it's more if someone's that if planned it

that far ahead, there's very rarely do we get people going, yes, I've

thought about this four weeks out.

Normally they're like, I want to do a webinar next week.

Let's go.

But if you do, it's, you would likely have.

I call it a keep in touch or a longterm nurture.

You'd likely be sending them emails once a week anyway for your normal marketing.

So what you'd want to do is have a blackout window and then

start marketing your events.

And so you'd start saying, sign up for the webinar when they sign up.

You've turned every other sequence off and then you just remind them to

attend you don't send anything else with that in mind then you probably

want to start marketing about 10 days before because two weeks might be a

bit too far out but 10 days before you do a 10 day than a 7 day than a.

Five then a three, then a two, one half a day, et cetera, countdown, depending

on, I said, an SMS ID before, depending on where people are in the world, some

people may have signed up just to do the replay and then you text them at one in

the morning might not go down so well.

Just keep that in mind for your own audience.

That's a very

good point.

All right.

Moving on, we're looking at the actual webinar component.

I don't think we should focus a lot on this because there's a lot

of information already out there on how to run a good webinar.

Someone like a Lewis Howes, some of the information he provides is fantastic.

That's probably where you go to look for that information.

Do you have anything to add that's contextually relevant to

our conversation here, Jamie?

Not specifically apart from within the coaching

space Taki has a fantastic webinar training specifically for coaches.

That's probably to add value.

Fantastic.

We'll include that in the show notes as well.

One thing I think we should probably do is the type of webinar that we're.

Building out this campaign for, I guess is, it's a sales

webinar.

Definitely a sales webinar.

Yeah.

And a sales webinar, whether you say it's a, whether you know that you've

done a full pitch in it and you've, you worked through a product near the

end, or whether it's a really soft pitch that you just add massive value.

And then at the very end you say, by the way, if you wanna talk to me

about this, just give me a call or go to ask jamie.com for information.

That URL's not mine, by the way, so don't go there, . But the If it's something that

you're going to repeat and it's going to make you revenue, then yes, you're going

to want to going back to what I said near the beginning, you're going to want to do

this two or three times to get the flow.

And also when we start moving to automation and evergreen to record

it, which we'll talk about in a little

bit.

Okay, fantastic.

Let's move on and speed through the actual webinar itself and let's start looking at.

Post webinar, what's the, best practice for following a post webinar.

So what's typical for you and your customers?

There's three types of people you want to think about

from your webinar perspective, there's people who attended and

watched it pretty much all of it.

The key thing we're trying to do, especially if it's a sales webinar,

did they get to the point where I started talking about the product?

Yes or no.

So number one, did they attend and did they watch it?

Number two, they didn't show up.

Or number three, they attended, but they left early.

So there's those three types of people.

And what we want to be able to do is then market differently after

the webinar to those three different types of people, because you'd

use slightly different language.

And you'd probably have, you'd have to, if we're sticking with office autopilot,

you'd have three different sequences for the technologists in the room.

It's a step sequence, by the way.

But you would have one for attended one for no show and then one

for left halfway or left early.

Let's say you have four emails in each one of those total 12 emails.

I need one of those emails talks about a talk about a special offer and there's a

time frame on it and it's the countdown of the time frame which is standard for

the end of a webinar email number one.

You would change specific to each of those people where is you could likely leave

emails to three and four to be the same.

For those three streams gotcha that makes sense yep it does so the first one

would say hey thanks for attending really hope you enjoyed a promise that i'd give

you a replay if you wanted to look at it here's the link or the links coming

soon i'll send it to you tomorrow etc.

Someone who didn't attend said, sorry, you missed it.

It was the best thing ever since sliced bread.

The replay I'll be out tomorrow.

And then the left early is sorry.

I had to leave early.

Those things happen.

Here's the replay I'll be out tomorrow, just in case to make sure you get a

chance to see the special offer talked about at the end, help you get it in

your business or something like that.

That's off the top of my head.

Okay, fantastic.

So I guess it's really just to be contextually relevant to your webinar

attendees, is that essentially all we're

trying to do here?

That's exactly right.

And that's the perfect marketing of talking the language that's right for the

person.

Yeah, fantastic.

So would you almost then just have the three step sequences with that initial

email in it and then migrate them all back into the one step sequence

after that?

No, I wouldn't.

All I'd do is, I just have the you'd use an office autopilot as an example,

you just have the message and just.

Pull that into the sequence, it doesn't take five minutes to do that.

And then you can just track how many people go through it.

So that's, I just leave it like that.

Okay.

Fantastic.

And then, so typically you're still providing the same content in terms

of your, you're always going to offer the webinar replay, regardless

of if someone attended or attended

to the end.

Correct.

Cause some people might, if you think about it from an attendees

perspective, they may have watched it and thought that was bloody brilliant.

I'd love to watch that again.

I want to show my wife or yeah, I'm about to spend the 2000, but I really need to

let my wife give me my credit card back.

Something like that.

To most people will be thinking that

fantastic.

So now with the replay, I guess with a sales type webinar, you're actually

trying to have people take action.

So I would assume and you're obviously going to tell us now that you're only

going to keep that webinar replay up for a certain amount of time.

Yeah,

there's different schools of thought.

Some people say don't even give a replay.

So they have to turn up and they have to take action there.

That's more of a gun to the head type approach and not my style.

Definitely having a replay because things get in the way in life, but the whole

aim as someone delivering that webinar is to get the other person to consume it.

And if they consume it and take action, you've done your job.

If they consume it and not take action, either they're not right

for you, or you didn't do your job properly in terms of delivery.

Putting that together, but the whole aim for us is delivering

webinars is that they consume

it.

Okay, so let's again, get a little bit meta in terms of how

you host that webinar replay.

Is it literally is it like a replay of the webinar or is

it you just hosting the video

somewhere?

There's a couple of things you could do here.

If you delivered it and you thought you did really crappy,

you could deliver it again a few days later and call it an encore.

And because you haven't sent the emails out yet, you could quickly

go in and adapt those emails that are probably ready to go.

If you just come off and your head's down and you think, I really wish

I did this differently and did this differently and change that around.

So I've had that happen with a couple of clients.

And so they've switched it to an encore versus a replay, whereas other

clients who are really comfortable on webinars will deliver it.

They'll record it.

That's the most important bit.

By the way, press record.

Real technical thing.

Red button.

But the in the replay, what we want to do then is have a page.

We'll call it a sales page with the replay on, and then likely a timed

button that would appear, which would be either a link to another sales page

or a link to the cart, depending on what the call to action is at the end.

Sure.

And again, to stay consistent, probably the easiest solution

for that is, is again, lead

pages.

It can be, yeah, because they have a good links through the lead pages.

I don't think timer recording has a buy now button on them just

yet.

They do some of them and you can

time them in as well.

Oh, okay.

Then thank you for educating me.

I'll go update myself on that one.

I haven't looked at it in a few weeks.

Yes, then that's the best answer.

Good job.

Well done.

Fantastic.

All right.

Let's look at some of the the other options.

So you were hosting those videos like in just like a video player, like a

YouTube or something, or is it a specific set of software that you're using

for webinars?

It depends.

Going down the path of Office Autopilot and go to where we started this whole

process with GoToWebinar and Office Autopilot and that's what you do at the

beginning of anything, though actually one of my clients did record it on his

computer with Camtasia and then plugged that straight into Stealth Seminar without

having an audience and that's still converting and that's a 2, 000 ticket

item, but assuming that you go through with GoToWebinar and you do that then once

you've recorded it, The next steps are one of probably two or three different steps.

One would be use Wistia and then you could have the same type of logic of

they watched it halfway through or not and then use Fused to flick them into

different extra sequences if you want.

AP, that's one way to do it.

The other way to do it would just be to have a a YouTube video for them

to watch and just hope it works, but that's called hope marketing.

So that's probably at the bottom.

It's quickest way to do it, but that'd be the bottom.

The third one as well could be to plug it into stealth seminar

and I'm a fan of stealth seminar.

Some people aren't, and then use stealth seminar and integrate stealth

seminar back with office autopilot.

To give you the same type of function as in how far did they go through?

Did they get to call to action one?

Did they get to call to action two and then potentially kick off

different sequences and stealth seminar integrates beautifully with office

autopilot to be able to do those

things as well.

And the difference between stealth seminar and go to webinar, what's

the main point of difference there?

The, I guess the look and feel if your market is

experienced with webinars, they're probably quite used to seeing.

Go to webinars so it's more of a comfort thing for them where is stealth seminar

and yes you can deliver live through stealth though if your markets not to

open webinars then i really like stealth seminar in terms of it's it literally

is a set and forget i got one client who loves his cricket and he's sitting

there watching cricket is two thousand dollars orders are coming through.

And when people are typing in the comments box, answering his questions, they just

come to his email and then he responds.

Sure.

So it is personal preference.

I've got other clients who just love go to webinar and would rather be there live.

And I've got other clients who use go to webinar, have a recording and then

get another team to press play on the recording through the go to webinars.

So it looks live.

So there's a few.

Different things you can do behind the scenes.

All right.

Fantastic.

Now, one

thing that is, really interests me is that from a logistics

point of view, when you're holding multiple webinars, how are you

handling the sequences, other sequences evergreen, where you can reuse them

and just plug in the webinar you're using, or are you building out a

set of sequences for every single

webinar?

The former, the evergreen, so the only, the little trick I told you before

about the rule, which plugs in the date stamp for the event, that would

be the only thing you need to tweak.

And from our experience, a little thing infused quick change of the

actual webinar that it's pointing to, and then everything else is set

up.

Okay.

So I guess that's a consideration when building out your sequence is to keep

it, generic enough that it can be reused.

When I say I guess when you say generic and when I say reused,

I'm assuming that what you mean is that you're delivering the same webinar.

Ah, gotcha.

Okay.

So

same title, different day.

Exactly.

Exactly.

If you're going to do a different webinar, then what you can do is lift.

Cause if you remember at the beginning, I said there was about 19 emails

in that whole process, if not more.

And so you want to try and reuse that.

whole machine.

And you want to try and use that two or three times.

And it might be, you say, I shall run that every three months.

But then next time I run it's easy it's just some promotion and the rest of it

just kicks off or you can automate it like a number of my clients do and one of

my clients has it run twice a week so at certain times for time zone it's connected

to stealth he does nothing and the 2, 000 ticket items sell every single webinar.

Brilliant.

That's fantastic.

Jamie, I think that's a whole heap of awesome information.

Before we hit record, we were just going down the path of some

of the different automation tools we're using, and we thought it'd

be interesting to include here.

So Jamie, you've mentioned you, you've just gone across to

HubSpot as an automation tool.

What advantages and benefits have you seen of going across to HubSpot?

The thing I love about HubSpot, there's a few different things.

When I work with my top end clients, One of the biggest challenges

anyone has in the online space is the tracking and measuring.

So yes, we can set up Google Analytics, Google Goals, we can have conversion

on all the different website pieces.

And if you understand what I'm saying there, you'll understand the

effort that's needed for each one.

And probably three or four different tools you need to talk to each other.

Whereas HubSpot just does it all for you.

So it just has its...

In HubSpot's language, it's called closed loop analytics.

And the whole premise of HubSpot is inbound marketing, which

is a recently new term to me.

Inbound marketing, but it's the thing I've been doing for many years.

I just didn't know it was called a name and that's all about putting

yourself out there, putting out your help, really offering help to people.

So when they go looking, they find you and then they're attracted

to you and what you offer.

So the inbound is people coming towards you, which is great for

people who don't like selling.

So I'm not a big salesperson, but I love the marketing.

And then you have a queue of people saying, Jamie, I want to do what you do.

Teach me how to do that and show me how to do the behind the scenes stuff.

Like

things that really attract me to HubSpot are things like their

smart call to actions, where you can, it'll change up the call to actions

on your site, dependent on what the viewer has actually subscribed to

already or has already redeemed.

Once that viewer is known and they've given you your email

address, how does it compare to an Infusionsoft or an Office Autopilot?

Is it as feature rich on that

side of it?

It's a great question but I don't think it's apples for apples comparison I've got

I ran off a sort of pilot for a number of years in my business I had to switch just

because they didn't have a payment gateway in New Zealand so I went to infusionsoft

and I've been running infusionsoft for a of which my team support for other

people now HubSpot doesn't do e commerce so that's it's not like for but the

reporting that I can get out of HubSpot blows the other two out of the water.

Yes, you can get granular tracking.

Inside of infusion soft when you add the web tracker to a website or the

same with infusion OAP and you've got the plug in the same type of plug in

into your Gmail and you can see people on your site played with all of those,

but with HubSpot you can see, okay, this is how many people went to that site.

This is how many people converted at this percentage.

This is how many call to actions were viewed.

This is how many call to actions were clicked.

This is how many then converted on this landing page.

It's all on a dashboard that I can just look at and within seconds make decisions

from a business and my top end clients are moving the same way as well because

they come to me saying, Jamie, I've just spent 8, 000 last month, four grand on

Google AdWords and three grand on SEO.

I said, great, what results have you got?

And they said, we don't know.

So you don't know.

Okay why don't we find out by adding tracking and closed loop analytics?

And that's what HubSpot does.

So

you're then using it concurrently still with Infusionsoft.

Correct, at this point though I'm also beta testing nanocast

over here in New Zealand, they're launching with a payment gateway.

And so there's plans for me to start using the e commerce on nanocast once

that's up and running over here in NZ.

Brilliant.

Which is a conversation for another time.

. Jamie McKean: It is.

We, yeah, we still have the first question.

How come you're in New Zealand?

We'll add them to the list.

Yeah, absolutely.

Alright Jane, thanks very much for your time.

Now.

I know you'd probably, some of our listeners would benefit from knowing

a little bit more about your services.

So where can they find a little bit of information about you and what you offer?

Yeah, no worries.

If you're a coach, then that's easy.

Go to technology for coaches.com.

It's in the name we do that and if you're looking for help on the automation side

of things, then there's a website called automating you dot com and that was built

with a view to show people what automation can do, and there's something they

call an awesome automation experience.

I think it had a drink when I came up with that name.

But you go in there.

Put your details in and it just walks you through the whole sets of automation from

email, SMS, voice broadcasting, et cetera.

So you can actually see how it works.

Technology for coaches.

com or automating you.

com.

Fantastic.

Jamie, thanks very much for your time.

I really appreciate it.

I know our listener out there is a certainly also probably gotten

a whole heap of benefit from this.

So thanks very much for

coming on.

No worries.