My guest this week is Taylor Stilwell. In this episode, we’re talking about standing in your truth, even when it hurts or isn’t popular. She just finished writing her first book, called How to Kill Your Ex-Husband and Not Get Caught. It’s about surviving divorce, co-parenting with a jackass, and loving all of it. And that basically sums up the rest of our conversation. Listen for the details of how she did it, because they are pretty remarkable and there are a lot of lessons to apply here.

The book writing is Taylor’s side gig. By day she turns tedious corporate policies into comical, yet appropriate documents.

When not doing either of those two activities, Taylor is living the good life in San Francisco with her wife, Stephanie, while she waits for her son to become a successful chef and support her in a manner in which she has never been accustomed. She also spends her time looking for the perfect pancake at local cafes, arguing over toothpaste squeeze techniques with Stephanie, and surfing with her ex-husband (it looks like she didn't kill him after all!). She also says she’s on a one-woman mission to find the line between not enough and too much coffee.

Taylor’s hype song is Lose Yourself by Eminem. Listen at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR1ECf4sEpw

https://therealtaylorstilwell.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylor-stilwell/

https://www.facebook.com/taylorstilwellauthor

https://www.instagram.com/taylorstilwellauthor/

You know how I share the key takeaways at the end of each episode? We’re in to Season 2 now and at the end of Season 1 a few weeks ago, I put together an overview show, as well as a PDF document of the key takeaways from the entire season. You can get that PDF of ALL the key takeaways for free by going to ZenRabbit.com/2021takeaways.

Hello, and welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. My

guest today is Taylor Stilwell. Welcome to the show. Taylor.

Thank you glad to be here.

Well, I'm glad to have you. Let's start with my

first question, which is always, what were the values and beliefs

you were raised with that influenced you as you were

growing up?

Wow, you swing for the bleachers right out of

the gate. You know, okay, so they were, they were fantastic

values, what I did with them was a little wonky. But the values I

was raised with was a strong connection to God, we went to

church in my house, you know, that was a big one. Family was

really, really important. So, and I don't mean, just the, like

the family, my mom and dad and my siblings, but you know, the

connection to cousins to aunts, and uncles and grandparents. And

that still a big value. And the other one was really, you know,

I don't know if we call it integrity, per se, but it was

standing your truth. And so it was, um, you know, don't lie,

you know, be who you are. And, and, you know, my mom, which was

this, you know, I'm still grateful to this one is that was

raised in Texas, and she was really into women can do

whatever men can do, and maybe not better, but differently,

where it's just as good. And it she wasn't someone who was, you

know, maybe she burned bras, I don't know, but not she wasn't

like this aggro feminist running around the house. It was just

like, hey, if you want to go play baseball, pick up a bat.

That kind of thing. It wasn't, it was really a more subtle way

of introducing femininity into our house and combined with

feminism.

As you said, it's more of that theory of be who

you are. If you want to play baseball, then go play baseball,

or if you want to go to dance, then do that. Yeah, then. Yeah.

And were you said you're raised in the south as well?

Yes, I was raised in mostly Houston.

Okay. All right. And so then as you were growing up,

how did did you those values influence you as you became a

young adult as you ventured out into the world on your own?

So they, they really were fantastic. Because,

you know, at 18 When it was time to leave for college? It wasn't,

it was just like, get out and go do it. You know, because I'd

been raised for 18 years. Just be strong. Do this, do this, do

this. Oh, you know, I was five and the roller coaster at the

theme park scared the shit out of me. And I was like, Nah, I

don't want to ride it. And my mom basically drugged me on to

the thing when I wasn't tall enough had me stand on my toes

and said suck it up. You're writing this right now? Oh, I

don't know, you know, apparently was really different back then.

But yes, it was through this ride. That was really, it was

not a kid ride. And it was like, Look, do scary shit, because

it's probably not gonna kill you. It's the stupid shit that

will kill you. So in my own way, I felt pretty prepared to go

live in the world. So I took a lot.

Okay. All right. And when we were talking before the

show, when we did our pre show chat, you told me about an

incident that happened when you were nine years old. Do you want

to share that with my audience? Because I think it was it. That

was another thing that helped shape how you thought it was

involving Olivia Newton. John

was gonna say can you remind me which one

because there was a couple. Okay. Yeah, the one was dressed

as a bag of chips. Okay, so,

Olivia, wait, that sounds interesting, too. Not

quite as

interesting. But so the Olivia Newton John

thing was she was like my idol. She was my first concert. I went

to you know, it was on a school night. And I was just over the

moon in love with her. I thought she was the coolest thing ever.

And so, you know, then, you know, I go to school and I'm

telling the kids I went to the concert like the night before,

and some girl in the bathroom made a comment that that that's

gross because Olivia Newton John was bisexual. And did I know how

gross that was? And first of all, did I even know what that

meant? And I didn't even really understand what that was in

fourth grade. But I was quickly told, but I was also told by the

same girls that Olivia Newton John was going to go to hell

because she liked women and in how gross that was. and just a

bad thing. And so they leave the bathroom giggling and I'm in the

bathroom just devastated because my idols clear, I guess

bisexual, and that's a bad thing. And I didn't know any of

that. And it really, it really shaped a lot of who I was. And,

you know, and I just went home busted and didn't know how to

how to process that or what to do with it. So I was just kept

it to myself.

I brought it up, because it is such a contrast to

what you said the values and beliefs you were raised were

with were as far as be who you are. And don't be ashamed of

that. And then they were, then you know, your peers are telling

you that this person was a bad person or was going to hell,

because she was being who she was. And that wasn't okay.

Yeah. And I think it's really interesting

when, like, inside the walls of my home, here's what I'm being

taught and trying to live it, which that was not my experience

of how a lot of people were being raised around me, there

was a lot of judgment, a lot of you know, I heard the words

going to help kids throw that around a lot over the simplest

things. And that's a scary thought as a 10 year old that

that's where your eternity for nothing, you know, really. And

so it's when you've got a big system at play. It's, it's hard,

because the people, you know, that we're raising me and that,

you know, the ones that love you and are guiding you through the

world. They're a little different than a lot of the

world around us. And so the, you know, that's what you hear. And

especially when you get a little bit older, and us as a teenager,

and you start listening to your peers, who are probably idiots,

they love you, they love you, but they're idiots and when

their values of their families are different than my parents, I

mean, I think my parents are really, were really progressive

and what they taught my family. But it's hard to combat the

system at large.

It's right, because and it's interesting what our

minds at that age, absorb, and process and then carry with us

forever. They you know, we get programmed, and then those

thoughts just run on a loop. And we never question where they

came from, or whether they're serving us or not. So how did

that as you got older than you know, you had kind of a dual

fighting? thoughts going through your head or programming to say?

I think so. I mean, I think we all do to some

extent, for sure, for sure. You know, it was um it's one of

those things where I didn't know what to do with it. So I made up

a story about it. And then let me just push it down as far as I

can and act like I didn't hear it. And let's start listening to

other music that maybe is not Olivia Newton John, or drying a

moustache of Olivia Newton John on my grease album cover. Like,

you know, but But of course, John Travolta is great. All of

those things. So I think, yeah, was it the best way of nine or

10 year old could? So I mean, that's all I could do. And I

think that's what I did with a lot of things. And again, they

start with the values I've taught was taught was one thing

and then the story I put on them. So it was a little

different.

Because exactly

nine year old, you know, didn't want to hear

that they're the person that they idolize is going to hell.

And I certainly didn't want to be the person that behaved in a

way that would get them to hell.

Yeah, so let's skip ahead to your adulthood. Right.

So cuz yeah, nine year olds do that stuff. And like you said,

They're idiots. So I mean, really, would you like at this

point when we look back and go I wouldn't listen to a nine year

old telling me like that wouldn't Yeah,

I do I listen to a nine year olds heart,

right? Because I think they have cool hearts. If you can throw

away the muck of what's been put on them by their their system.

Right, right. Right. So okay, so you grow up you go

off to school, you get to a place in your life where

everything's fine everything cuz I mean, the the name of the show

is Fine is a 4-Letter Word. So you know, we got to go there.

Yeah, where where everything was fine. wasn't at all tell us

about that

was just awful. And it was more you know,

growing up through, you know, just growing up, I heard I heard

stuff and we'll I'm going to stick with sexuality because

that's kind of where this started and going. There's a lot

that happened that we could focus on but I'm gonna go at

sexuality. And in high school, there were a couple of girls

that you know, I guess were gay. Imagine where they ostracized

and rumors went around about them all of that thing. And so

for me, it's not something I was even willing to look at in

myself. Because I saw the before I was kind of even ready to

explore that I saw things happening in the world I saw in

my small world. And I was like, God, it just was so unappealing.

And so why would you do that? And it was, it was all

unconscious, every bit of this was unconscious. And, you know,

so it's like, okay, this is what you do after high school, you go

to college, you get a degree, you study what you want, and

then you get a job in the real world. And then you get married,

and you have your children, and you have Sunday dinners with

your family. And it's not that that's a bad life at all. But it

really is fine. It's a fine life. It's just what was its

what was what I saw people around me doing what I saw what

a good girl did, what good girls do, and I just wasn't good. And

I wanted to be good so badly. So

I'm sure you were still good. It just wasn't that

definition of good.

That definition that I had put on what, what do

good girls do? And to be, you know, respectable? Right? And

yeah, yeah. You know, that's how it went. So you

follow those rules

that I put on myself? Really, no one put them

on me. That's the kicker. I did it. And I follow them. Yeah,

I think when we look back, we all really did it to

ourselves, whatever that was, like, we absorb that

information, and trans translated it to mean, x. And

then we acted on it and did those things. Like it's our,

everything's our personal responsibility, once you get to

be an adult totally

is and it looks like when I in hindsight, and

like, the church I went to was, again, pretty darn liberal. And,

you know, the youth minister was fantastic. And I love him to

this day, and he did not like preach what a lot of the other

people I heard were saying yet, again, for whatever reason, the

the, the mass voices were louder.

I, you know, the negative comes in louder and

stronger. I'm guessing because we as animals, as you know,

evolutionary things that we needed to protect ourselves from

the dangers, so we pay more attention to the negative than

to the positive. Sure, put more weight on the negative, just as

a protection.

That's a really good point. Yeah. So

and, and to now we have to stop and analyze that

we're doing that in order to correct it. Yes. Or, or counter

it. Now that we're aware of it? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And I'm going on and, you know, after

college, went to grad school, and after grad school, got a job

and just, you know, but absolutely one of those, you

know, nuggets of the universe met the man that would become my

husband and and he was just such a perfect fit for where I was at

the time then so, you know, and he's a good person. So, you

know, he just folded right in to exactly what life should look

like. So, but he had just enough fuckery and shenanigans in him

that he appealed to me. Just just in it was that also was

subtle, but it was enough to be really attracted to him because

he fit the mold but he kind of broke it too.

So yeah, okay, so he checked all the boxes

he did check all the boxes, you know,

successful good looking lived in California. So you know, but did

have it he to heck came with the value of a connection to God and

family and spirituality and all and you know, so it was really

interesting that our values lined up, but I don't I think me

looking at and living my truth might, it might be in my core,

I'm someone who likes to go really deep into myself. And not

everybody does that. So I don't I'm not sure that at least we

lined up on but at the time when I met him I didn't need him to.

I liked him however, it was on the surface,

right? As we grow and mature, we learn more about

ourselves and not everybody comes along on that journey. So

that's that's what makes it so difficult because you want them

to but you can't force them to

write and I was that was so sad to me for such a

long time and because and how I saw it was if you know I guess

I'm going up the stairs and growing up He has no desire to

follow me. And that's devastating. But I think the

truth was, it was a fork in the road really more than me. I went

one way and he went another, instead of, you know, I think

that's a much more gentle way of looking at it than I did when we

were, you know, going through a divorce. You know, when we're

going through a divorce, he won't evolve. And now, you know,

with, again, insight, I'm like, No, I think it was just a fork

in the road where he went one way and I went another.

When you're at that place, though, it's almost like

you again, have that protectionism mechanism for

yourself. So you crafted in your mind as he won't grow with me.

Right? Right. Because, right, because you're trying to also

justify your reason for not staying in.

If I say it that way. That's in my mind.

Exactly. That's reason for divorce. And then it's the

reason I'm not the asshole. Right, just needed to not be the

asshole, you know, again, but

it just was what it was. Yeah, cuz you're the one

who chose to leave. Right?

I am the one who chose to leave. And I. Yeah,

you know, and I think that's, you know, I write about this in

my book, I think that both people choose to leave. Because

when you're at an impasse, and you say, hey, let's figure out

how do we walk through this impasse, and someone says, No,

there's nothing to walk through. I think that's their own way of

choosing not to stay. Hmm, I think when there's a divorce. So

I think both people chose to leave the marriage, but someone

has to say the words, I want a divorce. And that's it like

that, right there. It was interesting, because we're

talking about fine. You know, I was so you know, fine. In the

latter part of my marriage, it's fine, we're good. It's fine.

Look at this. I'm respectable. And it wasn't obviously, and I

think that's what you get it on your show. But when I said I

want to divorce, I finally felt something. That wasn't fine. It

felt a lot of things. Yeah. And it's interesting. Again, the

irony is that you have to say, I want a divorce, because that was

the biggest truth and lie ever told, nobody wants a divorce.

Nobody,

no, no one wants this.

But what I, you know, the truth would be, I want

a marriage that works differently, or I want this, and

I'm not getting it. So you know, someone has to say it. So I said

it.

Yeah, it's so difficult. You know, a lot of

times people focus on if the other person says, it's not

working for me, and I want out that the person who's left

behind is I don't want to call it victim, it's not victim, but

that there's more sympathy for that person.

Was there ever was there ever. So and,

and it's just as difficult if not more, I don't

know, I'm in I was in the same position you were in terms of

being the one to proactively say, this isn't working, and

step away. So I guess I'd really don't have we can't necessarily

compare the sympathy levels. But But I think traditionally,

there's more sympathy for the person who's left than the

person who's leaving.

That was certainly my experience. And

imagine saying, I'm leaving him. Oh, and by the way, I'm gay.

Because so then, the natural conclusion is, well, oh, my God,

that poor man, he married a lesbian, right? You know, and he

didn't stand a chance. And the truth is, I am gay. And I stand

by that that is the truth, I will stand in forever. I will

also say it is quite possible as a gay woman, I might have been

able to stay married to him. Because I, at one point, I did

love him so much. And I think that sometimes, you know, Carl

Jung says we fall in love from the waist up. So yeah, I think

that in a different world, I could have stayed with him. So

the sexuality was not what ended that marriage. But since you

know, in getting to know myself, and I think I think being in an

intimate relationship with someone is a great way to get to

know who you are, because you've got a mirror in front of you 24

hours a day, showing you who you are, and so I certainly got to

know who I was. And, you know, I think there's a truth and

getting to know that going in really looking at could I Stay

in the marriage. And I was like, you know, hey, I, I'm actually

willing to try. I said, knowing this because there was a number

of years where I was very sexually attracted to this man.

And it worked. And so, you know, I was like, I would like to try

that to find that place again and see is it findable? And you

know, but that means we'd have the other issues are still here.

There's this big ball of issues that has nothing to do with

that, that we need to work through. And when you're told

Will, those aren't issues? No, your sexuality is the issue,

there's nothing to work through, that doesn't leave you much of a

choice. So really, it wasn't right or left with much of a

choice. So

there's only so much compromise, of course,

relationships involve compromise, but when it involves

compromising who you are at your core, we're and again, not

talking about the sexuality piece at all, but involving your

values, your what you stand for what you want from your life,

then that square, you can't continue that kind of copper,

that would have put me

back being fine, right? Just yeah, I would

have been fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. You know, when you know,

for me, if I stayed in that place, I would have been

probably highly suicidal. And that's a strong word. But that's

it was just such a, again, subtle level of misery that I

didn't share with anyone, because I just had so much

shame. Like, it's just I had so much shame around, you know, not

not being what I should have been.

There are a lot of people in those shoes in the

past, and still today. So you sharing this is beautiful,

because it helps other people know that they're not alone. And

that this doesn't have to be the way it stays. That's how it was

yesterday, that doesn't mean that has to be how it is

tomorrow.

Absolutely. And like going through a divorce,

you know, and again, you know, I wasn't the popular one in it.

And I had people, some people that supported me, but it's just

it's, you know, the whole family structure falls apart in laws

from both sides and, and the ideas they had and you are

crushing. Not only like to be out of that position, I was

crushing so many people's dreams. And that is a very

fucked up chivvy place to be. And so it really was like, you

know, what, why would I hurt so many people just to stand in my

truth. And then I was like, Well, I was first of all taught

to and second of all, I had a baby at that point. I'm like,

what kind of parent am I going to be? If I stay somewhere,

that's not a fit for me? Because that's what I'm teaching him to

do. I'm saying, right, you stay to make other people happy. And

that is not what I wanted to teach him. And so you know, the

couple of years after my divorce were the hardest. Just, I still

kind of pat myself on the back for making it out of those

without being bitter or resentful. Or any of the things

you know, it was so close to breaking me but it but it didn't

didn't I think in humanity, we all have that one little thread,

we can just hold on to it. Just you know, it does end up okay on

the other side. And it did and it took a lot of work and a lot

of a lot of what would one of my dear friends Debbie Ford would

call bathroom floor moments. I think Liz Gilbert refers to

where you were just on your bathroom floor wailing and you

know, all the all the orifices have stuff coming out you

there's just there's not there's tears. There's spit. It's not.

Right. It's the growl, like, where someone is probably gonna

call the cops because there's some serial killer next door.

And you're like, No, it's just I'm going through a you know, a

divorce, which is a death with no pie.

And I know why.

Well, when someone dies, they bring you a

pie, a divorce. No, you were just sitting there alone. And

so, you know, after all of that, it took some time putting it

together. And what I will say is, you know, I'm now 18 years,

19 years on the other side of this, and it took a lot of work

on a lot of people's parts. Mine mostly, I'll be really honest,

but a lot of people played into it. Where you know, I am you

know, I'm I will say that I just I still love my husband so

dearly. Are we best friends in the world? We're not, but if I

texted him right now it's of God. I'm having a crappy week.

Would you meet me for a cup of coffee? There is a 99% some

chance he'd say, absolutely God, what's going on? You know, or

you know, we all still go surf together sometimes, like, Hey,

you want to meet up and you surfing grab a burrito? Yeah,

let's do it. You know, and, and it's just really amazing. And

you know, he's remarried and he has other children and I'm

remarried to a woman. And, and I feel like I'm not going to hell

pretty sure about that. I think hell,

I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure I agree with you.

I'm not I'm not pretty sure. I'm 100% Sure. And

I think the hell was what I sat in, in that

bathroom, you know, when thinking yeah, as hell. But

that is my belief as well, that hell is not a place

that you go to after this life. It is something that we create

in this life. And we can move through it, you're not damn do

they are for ever. And

it's like, and I look at like we were during

the pandemic. My wife's a photographer, so she has this

ultra long sports lens. And so we we live, you know, in the San

Francisco area, and we would go me, my son, who's now he was 19,

my ex husband and his 1111 12 year old son, and not his

current wife, she would come a time or two, she didn't come

regularly because she was working through the pandemic.

But we would all sit there and meet up. And this is when we

meet up and surf and take my wife to pictures. And we'd

switch surfboards and play around in it. I think this is

the best thing is that one of the best conversations I've had

is someone came up because it was regulars there and they

said, question. They're like, You guys are clearly family. But

I'm so confused. Are you sir? Oh, what? Why? I don't What do

you mean? And they're like, who goes with who I'm like, Oh, I'm

like, Okay, so that's my son out there on that surfboard. And I

said, and that this little guy standing beside me who's not so

little anymore, and I have my arm around his shoulder, I'm

like, This is my ex husband's boy with his wife. And the

handsome bald guy out there with the grim that won't quit is my

ex husband and the lady with the long lens is my wife and we meet

up in surf every day. And they were like, You guys are just

this is the epitome of of the Modern Family.

I was just gonna say that modern family and I

just like I what I loved was that all they

saw was a family and didn't know who was with who know, you stick

around us for a week, it's gonna be very clear who goes with who.

But in those minutes, you know, it was just so hard to tell

because, you know, my wife, you know, plants, Big kisses, you

know, on the cheek of my ex husband. And because he's bald,

they have this conversation about have you done something

different with your hair? You know, and it's just, you know,

it's like, what a compliment that they couldn't tell. All

they saw was a family that loved each other. And, yeah, it was

not the couple that got divorced. That was not the

couple that got divorced, you know, 1819 years ago.

And that didn't just happen. So can you share a few

of the techniques or the tools that you used to work through

some things to get yourself to that point? Do you meditate, do

you journal, obviously, you surf I'm sure that

surfing is new. I started that during the

pandemic. But I do that, okay, I meditate. I do journal. I tried

to do yoga, you know, 25 years into it. I still can't do

downward dog without falling over. But I try it. But I do.

I'm a big proponent of therapy or whatever self help you need.

Like self help books, there's always one I'm reading always.

And what are you reading right now?

I am rereading getting the love you want by

Harville Hendricks because it's just it's got some good tips in

it. And it's really about teaching yourself how to love

yourself. And so I'm always like there's some connection to God

that I'm always working on. Right now. I'm not much of a

churchgoer. But I think there's value in church. But that's I'm

not much of a churchgoer right now but I think there's that but

the biggest thing that I went through when I was pregnant, I

had every pregnancy scare you could have. And so, the fact

that I got to have my son was he's just, I always look at him

as my miracle and he is I tell people this he is my why, for

everything. That's just so I look at what you know going

through a divorce or you know redoing custody when he was five

or three doing child support or whatever. It was always for him.

What is in his best interest, not what's in mine, in which is

why I left the marriage really what is in A way in my son's

best interest, which inadvertently was me living a

truth, but it was, you know, fighting, fighting with your

your ex is never in your child's best interest. It's just not in

my opinion. Now, that doesn't mean you do whatever they say or

you tolerate abuse. I wasn't I'm not suggesting that. But there

are ways to not fight. And so, you know, what I would do when

he was three and didn't want to go to his dad's maybe was to and

he would scream and pitch a fit. Because he didn't want to go and

not because anything bad was areas just he had been around me

that most of the time. I was right, right. What was familiar

it was so I was like, Well, let me find a mother's day out for

him even though I didn't need it. When we find a daycare for

him on the day his dad, can he go to daycare two days a week.

So his dad picks him up from daycare, because then there

wasn't that goodbye that way. You know, when when he was, you

know, five, and he would have problems and say, This is what

happened at my dad's house. And, you know, I don't understand

this, instead of saying, Well, that's because your dad's an

asshole, or, you know, whatever. I would say, Oh, well, what do

you think about that? And if you wanted it to go a different way,

how would that look? Then I was like, Okay, so maybe you could

imagine that, because imagination is really important.

And I said, you know, and so it was really teaching him how to

how to wander through life instead of, and my whole goal

was to never talk bad about his dad ever, not once. And if we

that's so powerful, disagreed with somebody with each other. I

don't know what his dad did that, but I knew that, I would

just say, you know, uh, you don't you're not, don't you ever

fight with your friends at school and call them names. That

doesn't mean you don't like them, but you fix it. And you

say sorry, and you don't do it again, those kinds of things,

that really, it was all teachable parenting moments

through the whole thing. And my son loved drawing, and he was

quite terrible at it, and still is. But I carried around

pictures he drew and I wrote on the top of those pictures, this

is why you do this. And that was like, when we were we were in

court for gosh, a couple of years when he was older, redoing

some custody stuff that was the cover of the binder, so that

every time I had to go meet with the attorneys, I saw the reason.

And you know, and then I would find someone that uh, you know,

a trusted, you know, my my girlfriend at the time, who's my

wife now, or a friend who I could go and say, That

motherfucker, I hope he gets run over by a truck or all of those

things, get it, get it out, where she wasn't in my house.

And, you know, whatever. And it was really just really showing

him that you it's your dad love him for who he is. I'm your mom

love me for who I am. We're totally screwed up people some

of the time and we make bad decisions. So, you know,

whenever his dad would do something he didn't like, and he

was mad at him, I tried to point out something that I had done in

the past that he didn't like and how he and I had worked through

it. So he just to show you can work through it with your dad.

So that's such a higher level. Oh, of looking at

things, it's so impressive that you were able to do that through

what I'm sure was some painful places for you. And like you

said, sharing it with friends or the therapists or whoever to not

burden a child with that kind of thing.

Well, it you it's not their cross to bear is

right there cross to bear it is mine and his dad. So that's what

we did. And it was really, you know, one of the one of the

tricks that I found was to start telling my son's stories about

his dad because he had no recollection of us ever

together. And so, and I would find stories that I loved. And

in doing that I really, in my own new unhealthy way fell in

love with his dad all over again. And so the habits that

were just good habits, it was, you know, I've heard somewhere I

don't know what it is. But someone said once about

behavior, like get your ass in the chair and your heart will

follow. So what I did was I'm like, okay, I can do these

things that are the right things to do, even though inside I'm

spinning. But eventually I was like, let me tell you about How

I Met Your Dad. And let me drive you to this, this cafe that I

had your dad and I used to have breakfast and I'm going to order

a meal for you. And I ordered it Nick is what's this. I'm like,

this is your dad's favorite meal. And it was really

introducing him to this side of his dad. He didn't know because

it was the side with me. And what he saw was at once upon a

time there were these two people that really loved each other

that just really loved each other and so, and I was like he

goes oh and when my What am i Dad do this and when did my dad

do this and it was stories only I could tell because they were

my Memories.

Right, right. Oh, it was really me tear up here. I

just loved it. And we still do it to this day

when opportunity presents. And I'll be you know, because I'm in

living in San Francisco now. And I lived with his dad in San

Francisco. So sometimes, I kept all the old pictures. I wasn't

someone who threw away the love letters in the pictures, I have

them all. So sometimes if we're going to be late, if my son's in

town, I'm like, Hey, you want to go? Grab, grab something to eat

or go for a walk. I'll purposely take a picture where I know

we're going to drive by and I'm like, Oh, hey, come here. Let me

show you this picture. See, here's where this is your dad

and I, at this beach that you and I are at now. And here's,

you know, and he's like, you'll be like, but why is this

happening? And I'm like, he was like, Why do you have like a big

stain on your shirt? I'm like, Oh my gosh, because we were

riding a scooter. And I thought I could drink coffee while I was

riding a scooter. And it didn't fit. And it's just these stories

that he now has. Because, you know, most kids, their parents

get divorced when they're a little older. And so they have

at least some memories. And he doesn't, but at least he has

stories of memories.

Yeah, that family history still exists through

this story.

Just because it happened. There was no Yeah. And

that's the whole whole whole point of my book that I just

recently wrote.

It is all Yeah, what's that called?

It's called How to kill your ex husband did not

get caught?

Yeah, it was

just and it's, it's, it's a love story. It

really is. It starts I think that, you know, when I was

looking at all when I was going through the divorce and looking

at all these books on the market, they're all about

surviving after divorce thriving without, you know, whatever,

joint custody with a jerk. And all, all of those can be

helpful. But they all seem to miss the love story that started

it. And so my book, Miss Riley, it is a love story to my son. So

that is amazing. I really appreciate you being here

and sharing your stories with us. Because I know that there

are people listening who are going through similar things.

And who can find strength and courage in your story. Thank

you. Thank you have

it. It's just getting out of fine to get it.

Yeah. Before we close out, I have to ask you the

the other question I asked every single one of my guests and that

is what is your hype song?

It's Eminem, Lose Yourself.

It's nice Eminem.

I mean, and I actually, that's a tool. I

should have said, I listened to it at least five times a week.

All right, well, we'll put a link to that song in

the show notes. And if somebody wants to get in touch with you

wants to get your book. How do they do that?

So the book, I'm shopping publishers right

now for the book. So but if they want to get in touch with me, I

can give you that information for you to put in show notes.

Does that help? I mean, um, are you are you on?

Can they find you on social media? Where do you hang out?

I do hang out on social media. And I have

Facebook and Instagram, a website and it's just you know,

author, they can look up author Taylor's Stilwell, and for

Stilwell, it's one L in the still, two in the well.

Okay, awesome. Yes, I will definitely put links in

the show notes for all of your connection, cool areas as well.

Thanks so much for joining me today Taylor, on Fine is a

4-Letter Word. That's a pleasure. Thank you.