In this episode of Unstoppable Success, we dive into the essential role of attorneys in business, especially for startups and small enterprises. Matthew Fornaro, an experienced business law attorney, shares his insights on why having legal guidance is crucial for navigating the complexities of running a business. He emphasizes that legal advice is not just an added expense but a necessary investment that can help prevent costly mistakes down the line. We also touch on the impact of technology, particularly AI, on the legal landscape and how it can sometimes lead to confusion and poor decision-making for entrepreneurs. Join us as we unpack these topics and provide actionable tips for ensuring your business is built on solid legal foundations. Jaclyn Strominger welcomes Matthew Fornaro, a seasoned attorney specializing in business law, to the Unstoppable Success podcast. Matthew shares his journey from a curious kid watching courtroom dramas to a passionate advocate for small businesses. He discusses his motivation for founding his own law firm, aiming to serve entrepreneurs who often feel overlooked by larger legal institutions. Throughout the conversation, Matthew emphasizes the importance of having legal counsel from the inception of a business and explains how proactive legal advice can prevent costly pitfalls. He highlights common misconceptions about legal fees, encouraging listeners to view an attorney as an essential part of their business strategy rather than an unnecessary expense. As they delve deeper, Matthew provides insightful tips on navigating the legal landscape of entrepreneurship. He insists that establishing a solid foundation—such as proper contracts and legal documentation—is critical for long-term success. They tackle the growing influence of AI in legal services and the potential risks of relying solely on technology for legal advice. Matthew argues for the irreplaceable value of human expertise in interpreting and applying the law, ensuring that businesses don't fall prey to the many pitfalls of misinformation available online. Listeners are encouraged to engage with their local business community and seek mentorship from experienced professionals. Matthew's practical advice and relatable anecdotes serve as a reminder that every entrepreneur can benefit from a solid legal framework and a supportive network. In a world where many businesses struggle to survive, his insights shine a light on the path to building a robust and legally sound enterprise.

Takeaways:

1. Matthew Fornaro emphasizes that attorneys are essential for businesses, helping them navigate legal complexities.
2. The conversation highlights the common misconception that legal assistance is too expensive for small businesses.
3. Jaclyn and Matthew discuss the importance of networking and asking for help from experienced business owners.
4. Matthew shares his journey from working at large law firms to starting his own practice focused on small businesses.
5. The use of AI in legal work is discussed, with Matthew cautioning about relying solely on AI for legal advice.
6. Delegation is crucial for business success, as many entrepreneurs try to do everything themselves.

Well, hello everybody and welcome to another amazing episode of Unstoppable Success, the podcast where we hear from influential leaders and their amazing game changing insights.

I am your host, Jaclyn Stranger, and today I have the absolute pleasure to bring to you Matthew for narrow.

And let me tell you a little bit about Matthew.

And before starting his own firm, he was an attorney at two prestigious just AMLA 200 law firms focusing all on civil litigation.

His practice is complex commercial litigation, including contract disputes.

And his one of his biggest burning desires and passions is helping businesses grow and address legal issues.

So welcome to Unstoppable Success, Matthew.

Thank you for having me, Jacqueline.

I'm glad to be here.

As we discuss off the air.

I'm a little cold right now.

That's why I'm bundled up.

So.

Yep, yep.

So you know what it's all about working with the elements that we have.

Right.

So, you know, so Matthew, let me.

I'm, I'm always, you know, impressed by attorneys.

Like, you started.

What made you decide to go into law?

I mean, did you always know that you wanted to go into, in being an attorney?

Like, you know, like you came out

of the womb, like, not out of the womb, but early on.

It's funny because, like, I like watching like stuff like the People's Court and stuff when I was growing up, like in the 80s and 90s.

So that's how I kind of got into liking the law.

It wasn't like, you know, like watching like LA Law back in the day or like Order.

Yeah, no, it was like I like the people sport and stuff like that and shows like that.

So that kind of got me into the law.

And that's kind of.

I always knew I wanted to be an attorney or do something know, like attorney esque.

So that's kind of how I got started and I just kind of went from there.

Okay, so you.

And you said People's Court.

I can think about Judge Judy, right?

You know.

Yeah, right, you know, yeah, I'm talking,

I'm talking old school.

Judge Wapner.

Oh, Judge Wapner, right.

Yeah, Judge Walker.

So you wanted to go into law and how did you end up getting in?

Like getting in, you know, focus on the business.

Law and businesses.

Sure.

So, you know, through the evolution of actually going to law school and then coming out of law school, I got into, I worked at a boutique firm doing like commercial litigation in Boca Raton.

And then I went and I worked at two large AMLA 200 law firms doing like complex litigation, representing mostly like big companies, banks and insurance companies.

And then I had the opportunity to work at an even bigger firm about 11 years ago.

And I was all ready to go take that job and go.

And then I kind of thought to myself, well, am I just going to keep working at like, big firms?

And then like every few years be like, well, you know, I'm kind of plateaued here.

Am I going to go work at a bigger firm?

Like, there wasn't anywhere to go.

I already was like going to work at like one of the biggest firms.

There was nowhere else to go.

So then I thought to myself, well, this is probably the last opportunity I'm gonna have to go start if I wanted to go work for myself or start my own firm.

Because my kids were young and, you know, I didn't have to worry too much about a lot of things with them like I do now and like other issues.

And, you know, it's probably my last opportunity.

So I'm like, all right, I want to go start my own law firm, but like, what do I want to focus on?

And then I wanted to focus on like an area that kind of was aligned with what I was doing, but I thought was underserved.

So I thought like small businesses, entrepreneurs and startups were underserved by big law firms because, you know, even though, like, you can get like a five figure income from, you know, a client or, you know, revenue stream from a client that was too small for them, and also, you know, like local attorneys, like out here in the suburbs where I am, like, really aren't attuned to business law or like litigation aspects or other aspects.

So that was kind of my niche.

And then also, you know, because growing up, my dad was a, you know, owned his own small business or whatever.

And I saw issues that he dealt with as a small business owner where I felt like he wasn't really being served by like attorneys or accountants or whatever because, you know, I mean, my dad did pretty well.

He's retired now and, you know, but he wasn't like big enough to warrant having a big ball from or whatever.

So I thought that that was like a really good demographic and niche to get into.

And that's kind of how I got into it.

And that's where I've been for over 10 years now.

I love it.

So whenever I'm thinking about, you know, attorneys and you probably have to deal with maybe some of the stigmatism or the idea of this, which Is basically, it's like, I don't need an attorney.

It's too expensive.

Yeah, no idea.

Yeah, I deal with that all the time.

Yes.

So what do you tell?

Like, you know, because I think one of the things that I would say to you that I.

That I know just from having a couple of businesses and having an experience right now with a business that I'm in, you need to have an attorney along the way as your advisor.

So what do you usually tell people, like, to have an unstoppable success in your business?

Why have an attorney?

Sure.

Because an attorney is part of, you know, a necessary business obligation.

And you should be budgeting for having an attorney as part of your business life cycle because it is an indispensable or an attorney is an indispensable part of a team that you should have as part of your business.

And as part of that team, you should have a business law attorney, you should have an accountant, you should have a commercial banker.

And then depending on what industry or practice you're in, you should have other people who are aligned with what it is you're doing.

And, you know, the attorney is indispensable because from before the inception of your business, you're going to need to have certain things in place in order to actually start your business, run your business.

And then during the life of your business, if you want to change your business, add to your business, subtract from your business, you know, borrow money, do things, you're gonna have to have an attorney involved.

So you should have one involved at the beginning so that you can have, like a written business plan in place so that you can pick the right business organization to start out with so that you can have your governing documents for your business organization, so that you can have an integration of, like your attorney with your accountant, with your banker.

And then you can have an attorney for all the different events in the life of your business.

Every time you have a relationship with another business or person, you should have a contract in place, and you should have an attorney who drafts or at least reviews or inputs on that contract.

And then, you know, anytime there's an issue that arises, you should be as proactive as possible instead of being reactive.

So that way you can avoid issues down the road that lead to lawsuits and things like that.

Or if you do get involved with a lawsuit, you have an attorney who can help you address it.

So, yeah, it's you sh.

You know, I know, like, oh, I can't afford it.

Yes, you can afford an attorney.

And it's a necessary part of your business cycle and it's a necessary in part for you to ultimately be successful.

You know, I'm, I'm, I'm hearing and it's, it's funny.

So I've got a couple different questions.

So it's like, you know, because sometimes so many businesses might start in the, for lack of better word, the garage or like, we have an idea and they don't think about bringing on an attorney.

Right.

It's just like, why do I need one?

But, you know, I love what you said.

It's like, it's, it's really being.

Have that, for lack of better word, that counselor and advisor, that's, that you can, that's with you the whole step of the way.

So they're, you know, as you grow or as, you know, they're there with you.

So I'm sure you probably get this question asked a lot, but how are you fielding like the, the AI attorneys?

You mean like clients who come to me with AI and like, tell me what to do or.

Well, it's more like, oh, I don't, I can just use, I can use my AI attorney.

You know, pick your bot that you like and they can be my attorney.

Yeah, well, it's the same thing as, you know, all AI, you know, and I, I am heavy into AI.

I love AI.

I use AI in my actual practice of law.

I use AI in running my actual business.

I use AI in my social media and stuff like that.

So I'm a big AI fan.

But, you know, I responsibly and ethically use AI where I'm ultimately the boss of the AI and I make sure that I check all of the output and work product from the AI before it goes out into the world to make sure that it's accurate and, you know, complete and real.

And the issue with, you know, lay people using AI, particularly as, you know, their legal advisor, for it to draft documents or for it to review documents, is that, you know, just like anything else with the Internet, the right answer is out there, but so is the wrong answer and you don't know which is which.

And guess what?

The AI most of the time doesn't necessarily know which is which either, because it's a open, you know, model if you're using like Chat, GPT or Claude or Grog or whatever, right?

Where, you know, it's going to present you information based on generalities and biases and it's going to want to give you the answer that you're looking for and you don't necessarily know if it's right or not.

And that's why you need an attorney or, you know, for tax reasons, you need an accountant or, you know, for whatever you need other professionals is that, you know, we know what's right and what's not.

And your AI doesn't necessarily know what's right or what's not or what jurisdiction you're in or what things are outdated or what changes there have been to the law, things like that.

So the issue is, is that when you rely on AI, sometimes it gets it right and sometimes it gets it wrong.

And if it gets it wrong, there's major consequences that are going to last for a long time, and you don't need to take that risk.

That's why you have a professional who helps you.

Yeah, I know.

I, I definitely wanted to ask the question because I, I've heard so many people said, oh, I just had a contract done up.

And it was, I asked, you know, my favorite AI to do it.

No, it happens.

And it could work or it could not.

It's just the same thing.

It's the same thing that you've been dealing with for over 25 years with people doing like a Google sear, Just a much higher evolution of, you know, searching the Internet for information because now it's, you know, more polished and complete or whatever when it comes from AI.

But like I said, yeah, it could work, but it could not work.

And if it doesn't work, there's serious consequences if it doesn't work.

Yeah.

So let me ask you a question.

So you've been successful.

What have you, you know, when you're, when you've been growing your business, what is one thing that you could share as a tip to other business professionals as they are growing a business?

Because, I mean, you're out there, you know, having to reach prospectively, you know, new clients, you know, new customers.

So what's the tip that you could give somebody out there right now who, you know, might be either starting their business or thinking like he's been in business for 10 years, he's been successful.

Sure.

Well, listen to what I said in a couple of our previous segments about what you do when you start off.

And then, you know, don't be afraid to go ask for help from other people, you know, from business law, attorneys, from accountants, from bankers, or people who are already in business who are successful or people who have been unsuccessful.

Because, believe it or not, as much as, you know, business is competitive and, you know, whatever, like most business owners would reach out and help other business owners or entrepreneurs who are starting up.

And they're a pretty useful resource to get information.

Not even, you know, if you can't afford an attorney, you can't afford an account or whatever you can afford asking another business owner, like, their insight as to what worked for them, what didn't work for them, what recommendations do they have for an attorney, what recommendations do they have for an accountant, what recommendations do they have for, you know, like SEO or web stuff or, you know, things of that nature, like where should I rent a property?

Or things like that.

So I would say don't be afraid to stay in your own shell and you know, as an entrepreneur, startup or, you know, a new business owner, go out and reach out to people and just ask questions because the worst they can say is, no, they're not going to answer your question.

But most of the time, yeah, people really do want to help you succeed and give you information and you know, for free much of the time.

And it's actually useful and insightful.

So don't be afraid to go out and ask people about things.

Ask your competitors, I mean, believe it or not, people, you know, as much as, you know, it's competitive and cover or whatever, like I said, they'd be willing to give you general advice or, you know, pointers on things or even not even competitors, just successful business people or even unsuccessful business people to find out what did and didn't work for them.

Yeah, I absolutely love that.

So listeners, I really want you to understand it's really picking up the, like, pick up the phone, use your phone and connect with people because it is so truly important, you know, to have that for that success.

Now, as an attorney, you know, what are some of the issues that you see facing small businesses, more so today than maybe, you know, five years ago, that people should be on the lookout for.

Sure.

So a lot of like stuff that we just talked about, like AI stuff, a lot of people floating around, bad documents and bad ideas that they didn't necessarily were floating out there a few years ago because of now AI is so prevalent.

So now people have a lot of bad contracts, a lot of bad ideas, a lot of bad agreements that get interjected into the business process.

And then you know, just the also dealing with like the flow of information and stuff that's out there.

They don't know what to use or what to do because there's so much stuff now, particularly for technology and AI, that wasn't out there previously.

It's how do you integrate into your Business, what's right, what's wrong?

You know, I got into a bad deal based on this.

How do I get out of a bad deal?

You know, I want to get into a good deal.

What is a good deal?

So it's a lot of dealing with information that's out there now and you know, concepts and different opportunities and you know, things that necessarily weren't even there five years ago that now are just exponentially increasing over time that, you know, they come to, you know, like the attorney or their accountant or whatever with these concepts or these ideas that just weren't there years ago.

And you got to kind of sift through them and figure out what's fugazi and what's real and whatever and then, you know, try to give them the best possible advice and, you know, correct information you can.

Yeah.

So I know it seems crazy, right?

Like, like all the stuff that's out there and there's, you know, how do you actually find out what's real?

Right?

Like how do you get the real stuff?

And I can only imagine so in your business, like, what is something that has happened that you just think, oh my God, if I could stop this from happening to every single business owner, the world would be a better place.

Sure.

Like from a business perspective, you know, it's interesting because, you know, I didn't really have like a huge business education until I got into business.

Like, I knew about the law, I knew from watching my dad, but I didn't know like the mechanics or anything of starting and running a business yourself.

So it was a huge learning curve.

A lot of trial by error, a lot of, you know, see what works and what doesn't work.

So a lot of stuff I did early on, I wasted a lot of time and money, I would say a lot of it on like marketing and a lot of, you know, like advertising, Internet stuff that just doesn't work.

And I would say it's probably a lot easier now than it was 10 years ago because of as much as we just talked about issues with there being too much technology and stuff, now there's less issues because there's so much technology and stuff where you can do things now with, you know, like a AI program or like a website or whatever that you would have to pay someone to do thousands of dollars per month previously you can do for like under $100 per month now with AI.

So I would say if you're getting into business or whatever, you know, figure out what it is that you want to do and what your goals are.

As far as like social media, advertising, web presence, things like that.

And then, you know, look to figure out how you want to solve that issue.

And you know, there's a lot of great AI stuff out there that I use myself for social media and for things like that that just didn't exist years ago.

That would have saved me a lot of money and a lot of time that I paid people to do a bad job of.

And so that would probably be my biggest, you know, fortunately I've avoided a lot of other issues in business, but that was probably the biggest money expenditure slash learning curve I had was that.

That's.

Yeah, that's, that's interesting.

Yeah.

I mean, now there's some things that we can do that are big time savers, you know, you know, with things.

So when you're working, you know, with your clients, like, you know, do you have a favorite type of business that you like to work with?

I work with all kinds of businesses, you know, from like solopreneurs to like bigger businesses.

I mean my focus is like small businesses, entrepreneurs of startups, but I deal with all kinds of people in different industries, you know, virtual people, people with real, you know, brick and mortar stuff.

So I don't necessarily have a particular business or like demographic or whatever that I'm a fan of.

I like my clients who want to learn but in a productive way and like to listen to my input and you know, they can be skeptical or questionable.

That's fine.

This just that I like clients who want to learn and, you know, better themselves and better their business and who aren't afraid to go out and seek information and you know, are willing to hear different points of view and stuff.

So those are probably my best clients are the ones who not necessarily just great at business or wanted it, they just want to learn and they want to do the best that they possibly can.

And that's usually the best client because they're willing to listen to you, they're willing to listen to like their accountant, they're willing to trust you.

And then ultimately, you know, that probably works out the best then for someone who's like skeptical or someone who, you know, shows up with their own AI research and tells you what to do and that kind of thing.

So kind of reminds me of like, it's like what, you know, when people used to show up to the doctor I, Dr. WebMD or Dr. Google told me this.

Right?

You know, yeah.

And it's interesting because a lot of my clients and stuff now send me their homework that they want me to review before I meet with them or go over things with them.

And I'm like, listen, I'm glad to speak with you about anything you want.

I'm glad to review anything you said to me.

But, you know, I'm the attorney and, you know, I'm glad to take into account whatever it is you have.

But ultimately, you know, we're going to make the best business.

You're going to make the best business decision.

We're going to make the best legal decision based on, you know, reality, not just what you found and sent to me.

Right.

So are you finding that, you know, I mean, obviously we've talked about AI.

Besides from AI, are there other issues that have been creeping up in business that, you know, really weren't there, you know, 10 years ago that we need to be on the lookout for?

I think, you know, again, probably attributed to, you know, the ease of technology and things, of how easy it is to just start up a business now without having to do all, you know, go from step one to 10.

You just show up at 10 and think you're done.

So I think a lot of people just go online to their secretary of State website and start their business, and they don't have, like, the articles of incorporation or the operating agreement or whatever, and they just jump in and then come to you afterwards when there's a problem or not even when there's a problem, when they need to make it next step.

And they kind of didn't do the due diligence to begin with.

So I think there's.

I think there's probably less due diligence that people do because it's so easy to just get into business now than it used to previously be.

That wasn't there, like, 10 years ago.

Like, a lot of people just kind of like, oh, I thought you just go online, you start a business.

I didn't know you had to, you know, have articles of incorporation or operating agreements or, you know, have things in place or issue stock or things like that?

So a lot of formality has been taken out of business, particularly the last 10 years.

And it's, you know, I mean, I understand people are really eager to get into business and excited and want to do things and have deadlines and stuff like that.

But I think a lot of steps are skipped that weren't necessarily skipped in the past.

You know what?

That, I think is probably one of the biggest things, and I would say listeners in life in general, and to have that unstoppable success, don't skip the steps like, that is so important.

I, like, I feel like that's, you know, even, even in getting started in a business, you have to know, like, what are your values?

What is, what is your core mission and your purpose?

And who do you, who are you serving?

And like, all of those things, you may have this great idea, but at the end of the day, you, those are some of the pieces that you need to have and put in place to get your business also going.

Like, don't skip the steps.

Like, the steps take time, but they, they, they serve it.

They obviously serve a very much needed purpose.

Correct.

You know, I mean, the steps are the, literally the building block or the foundation of your business.

And if you skip them, you can get away with it for a while.

But eventually, at some point in time, it's going to catch up to you.

Whether you're unsuccessful, it catches up to you, or even if you're successful, it'll catch up to you too.

Yeah.

So, so, so kind of curiosity on this is on the, for lack of better word on the unsuccessful part.

Right.

You know, how, how many businesses are you seeing, you know, on the side of, you know, that, that don't make

it, you know, for one reason or another, a lot of businesses fail.

You know, it's.

Whether it's, you know, it wasn't the right idea, whatever, you know, for whatever reason, there's lots of reasons businesses fail.

So I see, you know, a significant, not majority, but a good percentage of businesses that have issues that don't necessarily fail but are unsuccessful.

And I'll say that, you know, my job or my goal is to help you deal with your legal issues on your business.

And, you know, I want to work with your team to help them deal with their piece.

Like the accountant deals with the financial issues of the tax issues and, you know, other professionals deal with other issues.

So that, that way we kind of take that off your plate so that you can go deal with business issues and make business decisions and only worry about whether your business fails or succeeds on its merits and not on technicalities or on collateral issues.

So that's, you know, a lot of issues I see when a business fails or a business doesn't succeed is because the business owner is trying to do too much themselves instead of delegating out not just the professional roles, but things within the business itself.

And, you know, you have to be able to delegate in any business, otherwise, you know, you're going to, you're, you know, you're only one person.

It's not going to work.

So Delegation is a major part of any business.

No matter what size your business is, even if you're a solopreneur or whatever, you can still delegate things out.

So I would probably say that would be the main issue of why I see businesses that don't necessarily fail but don't succeed is because of the lack of roles of, you know, professionals and the lack of delegation.

And, you know, I mean, it's something that can be addressed hopefully before the business dies or the business goes out of business.

But yeah, that would probably be the percentage of businesses that I would see, you know, that are, you know, quote unquote, unsuccessful or whatever, mostly because of that issue.

Right, interesting.

All right, so you know, Matthew, you have such a wealth of information.

How can our listeners actually connect with you, learn more about the services that you offer and also get more insight?

Because honestly, I truly think if you have a business, if you don't have an attorney, I guess.

Are you, are you in multiple states?

Yes, I can help people in different states, even though I'm here in sunny but yet cold right now, Florida.

You know, I have clients all over the country and all over the world.

It just depends on what it is they need help with.

And then if I can't help them, I will gladly help them find a attorney in their local jurisdiction who can help them.

So the easiest way to find me is I'm, I'm not that hard to miss.

Go to my website, which is fenerolegal.com it's got all my contact information on it.

It's got all my blogs, all my papers, all my podcasts, all my videos.

There's a wealth of information there for business owners and businesses.

It's not on there.

Email me or call me.

I'll gladly help you out or point you in the right direction.

Oh, that's awesome.

Solicitors, please do me a favor, connect with Matthew.

I mean, like, I just keep thinking, you know, many times I wish I had, I had brought on an attorney before I started some businesses.

So don't do what I did.

Get an attorney first.

It's really important.

But please do me the favor, connect with Matthew and then do me another favor and please actually go to unstoppable success.

Go to school community and join unstoppable success.

We have a brand new community there and we actually will be sharing things that will help you do the do delegate, delay and ditch.

It's my four Ds.

It's like helping you do the things you need to do, delay the things you don't delegate the things that is not your expertise or just ditch the stuff that doesn't matter to your business.

So we have great tips and things like that, all on the school community.

And then lastly, make sure you hit record hit you make sure you hit subscribe and share this podcast with your friends and other business associates.

So thank you Matthew for being a great guest and thank you listeners for listening to Unstoppable Success.

I'm your host, Jacqueline Stranger, and until next time, have a great night.