Episode Summary: In this compelling episode, Leekei and Jenn welcomed Osprey Orielle Lake, an advocate for climate justice and the Founder of the Women's Earth and Climate Action Network. 

Osprey's work with underrepresented communities, policymakers, and coalitions aims to foster climate justice and a sustainable, equitable future. Highlights of our conversation include:

• The power of worldviews: Through her book, "The Story is in Our Bones," Osprey discusses the critical role worldviews play in shaping our approach to climate change and conflicts, emphasizing the need for a collective shift towards understanding and reconciliation.
• Indigenous and Women's leadership: Highlighting successful grassroots projects and indigenous wisdom in preserving biodiversity, Osprey underlines the indispensable role of indigenous peoples and women in leading environmental conservation and climate action efforts.
• Integrating ancient wisdom: The discussion also covered the importance of blending traditional ecological knowledge with modern science to tackle environmental challenges effectively.
• Action and hope: Osprey's narrative is a call to action for supporting indigenous rights, gender equality in environmental decision-making, and embracing community-led solutions for a sustainable future.

This episode is a beacon of hope and a guide for engaging in the climate movement, emphasizing that everyone has a role to play in creating a more sustainable and just world.

About Osprey Orielle Lake:

Founder and executive director of the Women's Earth and Climate Action Network (WECAN), Osprey Orielle Lake works internationally with grassroots, BIPOC and Indigenous leaders, policymakers, and diverse coalitions to build climate justice, resilient communities, and a just transition to a decentralized, democratized clean-energy future.

She sits on the executive committee for the Global Alliance for the Rights of Nature and on the steering committee for the Fossil Free Non-Proliferation Treaty. Osprey’s writing about climate justice, relationships with nature, women in leadership, and other topics has been featured in The Guardian, Earth Island Journal, The Ecologist, Ms. Magazine and many other publications.

She is the author of the award-winning book Uprisings for the Earth: Reconnecting Culture with Nature. Osprey holds an MA in Culture and Environmental Studies from Holy Names University in Oakland and lives in the San Francisco Bay Area on Coast Miwok lands.

Connect with Osprey on Facebook, Goodreads, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

To learn more, go to: https://ospreyoriellelake.earth

----- 

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

----- 

Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang and Jenn Swanson.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

----- 

The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Hi, I'm Christina.

2

I'm from Prague.

3

Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

4

Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

5

Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

6

Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

7

Welcome to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with

Carbon Conversations for every day, with

8

everyone, from everywhere in the world.

9

In our conversations, we share ideas.

10

Perspectives, questions, and things we

can actually do to make a difference.

11

So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

12

Hi, I'm Jen.

13

And hi, I'm Liki.

14

And today we're joined by Osprey Orwell

Lake, joining us from California.

15

Osprey is an author and activist

and the founder of the Women's

16

Earth and Climate Action Network.

17

And Osprey is involved globally.

18

And works with grassroots leaders

from, I would say, less represented

19

groups in society, policy makers, and

diverse coalitions to build climate

20

justice, resilient communities, and

address transition to a decentralized,

21

democratized, clean energy future.

22

So thank you very much, Osprey,

for being here with us today.

23

Well, it's really an honor to be here

and thank you for the great global

24

work that you're doing around climate.

25

Thank you.

26

Thank you.

27

In your book, in your new book,

the story is in our bones that will

28

come out the end of this month.

29

So probably around the time that

this episode will be published.

30

You talk a lot about worldviews.

31

And this is actually the

first part of your book.

32

And then you keep talking about

worldview again and again.

33

I believe that it is very, very important

because very often, this is what I

34

think, that disagreement and conflicts

happen in the world and through history

35

because people have different worldviews.

36

And so to start off a conversation,

I'm curious to know what lens do

37

you currently see the world through?

38

Hmm.

39

It's a wonderful question.

40

Thank you.

41

I think that, you know, one of the,

the reasons that I wanted to frame this

42

book on climate from the perspective of

worldviews, as well as climate justice,

43

is that in my work at the Women's Earth

and Climate Action Network, we can

44

every day we work with very practical

matters from the Reforestation projects

45

to forest protection as an, as an

example in the Amazon to doing fossil

46

fuel resistance to stop dangerous

pipeline projects, fossil fuel projects

47

and stop fossil fuel expansion is

international energy agency has said,

48

or the IPCC reports are keep telling us.

49

No more fossil fuel expansion.

50

So every day we're very involved

at our organization with very hands

51

on projects, hands on advocacy.

52

We go to the U.

53

N.

54

Climate talks every year for over

a decade now, advocating for gender

55

justice and indigenous rights

and phasing out fossil fuels.

56

So there's a whole host of things we do

at our organization to meet the Immediate

57

cause of doing all that we can around

the climate crisis from a climate justice

58

perspective and lens the question really

became for me, how did we get into these

59

interlocking crises, whether it's looking

at colonization or the type of economies

60

that we have are very extractive.

61

Capitalism is a very extractive

economy, whether we're talking about

62

looking at world governments that

are still quite patriarchal, whether

63

it's looking at racism and seeing,

you know, what is really upstream

64

from these interlocking crises?

65

How did we get here?

66

And that really led me to thinking

about our world views, because,

67

for instance, if tomorrow.

68

We waved a wand and we

fixed the climate crisis.

69

We're still degrading our environment.

70

There's still social injustice.

71

And from the perspective of

our organization, there really

72

isn't a separation between

social and ecological justice.

73

They are completely interwoven.

74

And so that's what really

led me to want to explore.

75

Both looking to the past and understanding

these patterns in society and where did

76

they come from in these social ills and

the mindset that got us into these crises.

77

And then how do we dismantle them?

78

If they're very dangerous to then create

the world that I know we're all really

79

longing for wanting to summon together,

which is, you know, very equitable and

80

caring for the earth and one another.

81

And I just would add one last piece,

which is that I think not only are we

82

dismantling very harmful structures

that I mentioned of colonization

83

and our current economic frameworks,

racism and other social injustices.

84

I think that we're also needing to

reclaim and also rescue, if you will,

85

some ancient worldviews that many of

us had in our lineages that are from

86

pre colonial and pre patriarchal times.

87

So it's also about renewing some of

the traditions that connect us to the

88

land and the earth and the web of life.

89

Because I think if we're not centered

on the fact that we're on a living

90

earth, And we can connect to nature

and we can heal this disconnection

91

from nature narrative that we find

ourselves in a modern society.

92

It's extremely difficult to really

navigate how we're going to get from

93

where we are now to where we want to go

if we continue to have this disconnect.

94

From the very web of life

that we're trying to protect.

95

And also if we cannot connect to

the earth, that sustains us all.

96

So that really led to this conversation

about worldviews and how do we really

97

connect to nature and each other in a

very different way than we are right now.

98

I noticed that you used story

and you used poetry to weave all

99

these topics together like a big.

100

Tapestry.

101

And I wondered, I mean, story is ancient

and built into our DNA as humans.

102

And I wondered what brought you to

frame this quite, it's quite a big book.

103

What, what brought you to, I have it here.

104

What brought you to, uh,

frame it through story?

105

Where did that come from for you?

106

Well, in my experience, you know, just,

uh, You know, since childhood, and I

107

think all of us, I mean, we're so impacted

by stories and what is the narrative

108

and how we find meaning in the world.

109

And we have our lived experience of what

we actually experienced the world to be.

110

But how are we interpreting that and

how are we experiencing it is so often

111

through the stories that we're told.

112

Whether those are cultural stories or

religious stories or, uh, stories that

113

come from, you know, just the, the, the

onslaught of media that we hear every day.

114

All of those stories

come from a framework.

115

All of those stories are based

in our belief systems, how we

116

understand the world came into being.

117

Or in my book, I also got very engaged

in the beginning section of the book

118

about looking at origin stories, meaning

how do we know where do we come from

119

and what are our agreements with?

120

What are our agreements with the

original instructions that have

121

come from many ancient peoples?

122

And what are those codes of conduct

that we need to really look at and

123

how are they embedded in stories?

124

And so in contrast, we can see

that, you know, I made a distinction

125

between some of the, uh, ways in which

Our current society is filled with

126

narratives around racism and patriarchy

and colonization or in the sense of

127

consumerism buying more and more and more.

128

And so those narratives are built into

everyday activities, everyday stories.

129

And how do we Then begin to interrogate

those and open those up and begin to

130

open our minds to a very different view

that as an example, understands what

131

does a decolonized framework look like?

132

Uh, what does it mean to fill

our lives with other kinds of?

133

learning and growing than buying

things to satisfy our need for,

134

uh, uh, how we're going to grow and

how we're going to live our lives.

135

And I think in many ways, there is a

great cavernous emptiness that people

136

feel almost an orphanage from the

land and orphanage from community.

137

And unfortunately, I think that over

time has built societies around the

138

world that are trying to fill this great.

139

Void this vacuum, this orphanage with

consumerism, which is hurting the earth,

140

but also a lot of violence and othering

of other people to again, find identity,

141

find purpose and meaning, and that we

really need to heal these wounds because

142

it's extremely difficult to navigate

and transform the destruction of nature

143

of this moment in time without also

attending to the wounds that got us here.

144

And I think stories are an incredible way.

145

Carrier of the knowledge that we need

to have to really find a path forward.

146

I know that I was very moved by the

story of your mom, um, in the garden,

147

the flowers being planted outside her

window so she could watch them bloom.

148

What's your favorite story

that you told in this book?

149

Oh, I don't know, I'm

terrible at favorites.

150

I will, maybe I'll just share one

of the stories, um, because, you

151

know, they all have different meaning

and, and are placed in the book to

152

help illustrate different things.

153

I mean, the book is, you know, Uh,

a book that is a combination of

154

historical research and also technical

research around climate combined with

155

science and indigenous knowledge.

156

Also you know, memoir in some way,

because I think it's important that

157

we also include ourselves in the

story of what is happening right now.

158

Um, so yes, the story that you told

since I'll just maybe share a little

159

bit more about that since you brought

it up is one in which it comes in one

160

of the chapters around reciprocity.

161

Okay.

162

And what does that look like?

163

And, um, when my mother was, uh, dying

of cancer, one of the things she had

164

requested is that we garden together.

165

And, uh, so we began to really think

about what kind of garden could we have

166

that would generate healing for nature.

167

And as we all know, there's a lot

of, um, um, challenge right now for

168

pollinator species, bees, butterflies,

hummingbirds because of how much

169

environmental degradation there is.

170

And so we specifically built this

beautiful garden filled with so

171

many different kinds of gorgeous

flowering plants that are really

172

attractive for pollinator species.

173

And so we did a lot of research

and combined different plants

174

that really love one another.

175

And we planted a garden in a

place that my mother had chosen.

176

And, uh, you know, sure enough, we,

you know, in the spring there were

177

all kinds of, uh, Including even

some bats that came at night, but

178

there was bees and butterflies and

yeah, it was really very, very sweet.

179

But what I had not anticipated is

that the place that she had chosen for

180

this beautiful mosaic of flowers to

be, uh, was right in a position where

181

when she was in her bed, which became

bedridden, she could see this garden.

182

And I was just really moved by that, that

as she was passing to the spirit world,

183

she was also seeing this beautiful gift.

184

of life, um, being given back to earth.

185

And so it was an example in the book of a

very personal experience of reciprocity.

186

And then, of course, you know, the

chapter goes on to talking about in

187

depth analyses around how, uh, we

really need to acquire a different

188

view of how to live with nature as life

enhancers and how do we have a reciprocal

189

relationship with the land versus just

taking and consuming and extracting.

190

Thank you.

191

Thank you.

192

You mentioned the importance of.

193

Indigenous wisdom in

combating climate change.

194

Why is it important to know the knowledge,

the wisdom of Indigenous people?

195

And can you share some examples

of effective Indigenous

196

practice for sustainability?

197

One of the most important things to

me right now is that we all really

198

respect and honor Indigenous peoples.

199

Eighty percent of all the biodiversity

left on Earth is in the lands

200

and hands of Indigenous peoples.

201

which is quite remarkable,

um, given that they're about 4

202

percent of the world's population.

203

And so, this clues us in that Indigenous

Peoples are living in a particular

204

way and have a worldview that is

healthy with the natural world.

205

So, when we're talking about our

forests, our rivers, the air,

206

biodiversity, we're talking about

Indigenous Peoples immediately.

207

and how they are respecting

their lands and maintaining their

208

lands and their territories.

209

So for me, when I think about, um, how we

address the urgency of the climate crisis,

210

I immediately think about indigenous

peoples and learning from them and really

211

sitting at the feet of their wisdom.

212

And being very respectful because there

has been so much extraction, not just

213

of their territories and land, but also

of their knowledge and information.

214

So I also say this very humbly that,

you know, it is our time to really

215

listen to Indigenous Peoples who have

been leading the way in how to live

216

in harmony with the natural world

through their practices, through their

217

traditional ecological knowledge, through

their deep, long standing relationship

218

with place and where they live.

219

So, some of this, you know, can

look like, first of all, wherever

220

we live, who are the Indigenous

people upon whose lands we are?

221

And for me in California, it's

really important to recognize

222

that I'm living on stolen land.

223

I live in Coast Miwok territories.

224

And what does it mean for me to get

to know the Coast Miwok people here?

225

Um, and how can I support their campaigns?

226

How can I support their efforts

to, uh, to, to care for the lands

227

that are their traditional lands?

228

Um, so I think there's a lot to learn

about one acknowledging that many of us

229

not living on our traditional homelands.

230

We have our settlers somewhere else.

231

And have not come from

the places that we live.

232

So how can we be respectful, uh,

newcomers, really, and not bring

233

with us a colonized framework

that we were all embedded in?

234

And how do we begin to dismantle that

and have a different relationship

235

with Indigenous peoples where we

live and learn how to be in their

236

territories in a healthy way and

how they're treating the land?

237

So I think that's like a beginning point.

238

I think also that it's really important

to learn about the profound struggles

239

Indigenous peoples are having because

colonization is not over and the attacks

240

on the lands and territories and rights

of Indigenous people is far from over.

241

So as an example, you know, when

we were talking about here in

242

the United States, there's been a

lot of different, um, fossil fuel

243

projects, whether it's expansion

or pipelines that are always going

244

right through indigenous territories.

245

And I think it's one of the

biggest fights that has really

246

happened here in the United States.

247

I'm sure people have heard about Standing

Rock, um, and other big pipeline fights

248

here to stop fossil fuel expansion

have been led by indigenous peoples.

249

And many times by indigenous women

who are often the backbone of these

250

movements speaking out to protect

the water, to protect the land, to

251

stop the climate crisis from further

harm through fossil fuel extraction.

252

Um, this is also true in, you know,

we talk about forest protection

253

in the Amazon as an example.

254

It is indigenous peoples territories

where those ancient forests are,

255

and they're often on the front lines

protecting their forest territories.

256

And so it's really critical that

we also stand up for indigenous

257

rights in the global South and the

right for, uh, indigenous peoples

258

to protect their territories.

259

And there are international laws,

as an example, the UN declaration

260

on the rights of indigenous peoples,

which includes something called.

261

Free, prior, informed consent, or

FPIC, which not all countries have

262

adopted, but almost all countries

have, and yet they don't adhere to it.

263

And it really gives Indigenous Peoples

the right to one Be consented about

264

whether or not they want harmful

projects coming into their lands or not.

265

And two, the right to say no if

they don't want that project.

266

But very unfortunately, and our

organization often gets very involved in

267

these struggles, that right to say no is

not respected by extractive industries, by

268

the government, or financial institutions.

269

So one way we can really respect

the protection of the land, The

270

protection of biodiversity and water

and forest is by supporting indigenous

271

campaigns and struggles to protect

their territories because they're

272

the ones who are caring for them and

maintaining them in a healthy manner.

273

And then I think just in terms of

traditional ecological knowledge, there's

274

just so much to learn from indigenous

peoples around how To care for the land.

275

And, you know, just one example from

California, there are ways in which,

276

uh, indigenous people here for hundreds

and hundreds and hundreds of years.

277

Had very localized burns in the

forest to keep the foliage down

278

so that it wouldn't build up and

then have these huge forest fires.

279

And of course, this has gotten

even worse because of the

280

climate crisis and the drought.

281

We're now, as we know, all of the

world, there's, you know, a fire starts

282

and it creates a massive inferno.

283

And some of that could be

maintained and cared for if we were.

284

Practicing and listening to indigenous

peoples about these small burns that

285

they were very careful to maintain.

286

Um, and the last thing I'll say

because there's so much to talk about

287

the brilliance of the true ecological

knowledge which we need to learn from

288

is that most of the lands all over

the world, people consider to be wild.

289

Or untouched wilderness for indigenous

peoples has been lands that they have

290

very carefully maintained for millennium.

291

And it looks wild and natural

because of the deep care and

292

love and reciprocity indigenous

peoples have had with their lands.

293

But it is also a way of how do

we become, um, life enhancers,

294

keystone species in the ecosystem.

295

As our ancestors and indigenous peoples

all over the world have done when we did

296

live in a respectful way with nature.

297

And I think we need to come back to these

practices and, you know, I would really

298

suggest people reach out to indigenous

peoples and find out and learn from them,

299

find out whose territories you're in.

300

And also there's so much

gorgeous literature coming

301

out from indigenous leaders.

302

About traditional ecological knowledge

that you can directly learn from because I

303

don't really like to speak for indigenous

people I don't think that that's my place.

304

I do like to convey support for their

wisdom and knowledge and really center

305

that in our work around the climate

crisis and environmental degradation

306

and understanding different worldviews

of seeing an animate world and all the

307

things that indigenous people have to

offer but Truly, I think the best thing

308

to do is learn from Indigenous peoples

about their wisdom and knowledge.

309

I don't know if you, um, know

that what happened here in Canada

310

yesterday, in Nunavut, a very

historic document was signed.

311

It's called a devolution document.

312

Our Prime Minister was, uh, in

Nunavut and they have transferred

313

the largest land transfer in Canadian

history back to the Inuit people,

314

two million square kilometers.

315

And this was a 25 year in the making

process that actually happened yesterday.

316

So the Inuit people will now have

a final say over what happens with

317

their land and their territory.

318

And so, um, wow.

319

That's like such fantastic news.

320

It was a huge thing.

321

That's enormous.

322

And the whole land back

movement is really growing.

323

Really excited about it.

324

So thank you for sharing that great news.

325

You know, lots of different,

uh, maybe not at that size, but

326

land back exchange going on, uh,

throughout the North American region.

327

And I think it's one of the most

important, exciting and inspiring

328

movements that we can support right now.

329

So thank you for that.

330

Yeah, it was, uh, it goes right

along with what you were saying.

331

And Yeah, my work that I do in my, in my

other work, we do a lot of reconciliation

332

work and start all of our meetings with

territorial acknowledgements and, and

333

really have a partnership with our local

Indigenous communities to try and learn

334

and change our colonial language to

a non colonial language where we can.

335

And yeah, we're still,

we're always learning.

336

So that's, it's an important

piece of the story.

337

Good.

338

Thank you.

339

Thank you.

340

Thank you for sharing that great news.

341

I didn't get the name of the

treaty or the, or the laws.

342

There is a universal declaration of the

rights of Indigenous peoples through the

343

United Nations that has been established.

344

And within that, there are specific rights

called free, prior, and informed consent.

345

And When we look at international law,

we know that there are human rights,

346

but there are also indigenous rights.

347

The UN declaration on the

rights of indigenous people is

348

specific to indigenous peoples.

349

And they really fought for that

because correctly, they argued that

350

they have unique rights as indigenous

peoples that are connected to the

351

land and our collective rights, not

an individual right for a human,

352

but because of their worldview.

353

The right to this relationship

with the land, but also this

354

collective right as peoples, plural.

355

And so I think this is very, very

important, something that, you know, as

356

I say, many groups, not just ours, are

really working to support Indigenous

357

peoples and being able to implement

those rights and have them be respected.

358

And what about women?

359

Because it's very, very part of your work.

360

And so what can we learn from women

or what the world can learn from women

361

in And being more sustainable and

respecting the environment more, better.

362

What can we learn from us?

363

Yeah.

364

That's very, very, very key

to or components of the book.

365

Um, again, I did a really deep dive into

that, but also in terms of your question

366

more immediately about the role of women.

367

I think that some of the crises that we're

in really stem from gender inequality.

368

And the fact that we are in these not only

colonized, but patriarchal frameworks.

369

in societies around the world.

370

And we are suffering from that.

371

And so just giving some practical examples

for listeners, just so we're, we're not,

372

um, trying to cover the entire scope,

which is so massive when we talk about

373

gender inequality, but right now due to

gender inequality, Uh, women and girls

374

around the world are impacted first and

worst by the climate crisis because of

375

the fact of everything from them not

having, uh, the same economy to operate

376

from having voice, having mobility, the

fact that they care for their families.

377

So whenever there's any climate impacts,

women are going to feel those first.

378

They're also feeding their

families, collecting water.

379

Everything that has to do with our

lived experience is impacting women.

380

When, when we see the climate crisis

unfolding, but one of the untold

381

stories on the other hand is that

women are actually essential to

382

sustainability and climate solutions

and we can't get there without them.

383

And I have on my website, many,

many, many statistics around sharing

384

exactly why and how women are leading

the way in the climate crisis.

385

And I'll just give a few here.

386

Which is between 40 and 80 percent

of all household food production in

387

the global South is done by women.

388

There is so many areas that

are drought stricken now

389

because of the climate crisis.

390

So we need these water programs

to really ensure that people

391

have water during this time.

392

And the United Nations has shown many

studies that demonstrate that if you

393

don't involve women in these water

programs, they simply don't work.

394

Because women are doing

the water collecting.

395

They're the ones monitoring

the water levels.

396

They're the ones who are caring

for the water in the household.

397

And so you have to have women

engaged in these programs.

398

And then at, you know, we're looking at

whether it's grassroots movements, uh,

399

so many of the big resistance efforts

to uh, stopping forest degradation or

400

stopping fossil fuel extraction, you'll

see a lot of particularly indigenous

401

black and brown women right at the

head, stopping these projects that are

402

most impacting them because they're

in the areas that are considered

403

sacrifice zones or sacrifice areas.

404

So they're leading a lot of these

movements to stop harmful projects.

405

And then when we look.

406

At a country level, we know that when

women are in parliamentary positions,

407

uh, they often pass environmental

laws that are more high quality and

408

more caring for their societies.

409

We did see, even if we look at the COVID

19 pandemic at the height of it, there

410

were many different news articles showing

that countries that were led by women

411

did far better in dealing with the COVID

19 pandemic than countries led by men.

412

I would also add that I talk about this

in the book that, um, there's something

413

called the, uh, women's political

empowerment index, which is really talking

414

about how women are expressed in society.

415

If they're involved in social

movements, if they're involved

416

in politics, their, their general

voice in society, it's called the

417

women's political empowerment index.

418

And with just a one unit increase.

419

you get an 11.

420

51 percent decrease in carbon

emissions, which is huge.

421

And so I could go on and on, but this is

just to kind of give us a basic framing

422

about the incredible power that Women

have when they're given agency and voice,

423

and yet at the same time, we live in

these societies that are not recognizing

424

or uplifting the central role of women.

425

So as an example, just a month ago,

I was in Dubai for the COP 28 climate

426

talks, and there were 133 heads of

state there, but only 15 of those 133.

427

We're women.

428

And, you know, like I said, we could go

on and on about the role of women and what

429

is happening when they're in leadership

roles as well as gender diverse leaders.

430

And we see such an

incredible positive impact.

431

And yet they're under acknowledged,

underfunded, underrepresented,

432

underpaid, underpaid.

433

And this has really got to change.

434

This is a core to how we're going to

resolve a lot of these interlocking crises

435

from, you know, the economy, to racism,

to the climate crisis, to environmental

436

degradation, to peace building.

437

We need women at the table, and this

is a constant effort that we all

438

need to be collectively engaged in.

439

I was quite fascinated about the

information about the witch trials.

440

Um, that was, yeah, you, you went

in depth into a lot of that and

441

it was quite fascinating to read.

442

At the beginning of the book, I give the

example of something I learned from a

443

wonderful permaculture teacher, Pandora

Thomas, and she taught me, and then I did

444

some more research from the Ankhon people.

445

The, uh, the Sankova bird, um, which is

a mythological bird, and it's a beautiful

446

symbol of a bird who is facing backward,

White's feet are facing forward, and

447

that symbol of the feet going forward

and the head turning back, as it was

448

explained to me, is that we need to

pull from the past and look from the

449

past and understand the roots of Bye.

450

Bye.

451

How we got to where we stand

today while we move forward.

452

And so relating to, you're mentioning

the, the witch trials and what was

453

happening with the witch burnings

in Europe, it's part of a larger

454

section in the book of how did we

arrive at this gender inequality

455

and this degradation of the female.

456

And the casting down of the goddess

and how do we end up in a monotheistic

457

religion of one male supreme God?

458

And where did all these

concepts come from?

459

Going back to your comment about stories

and narrative and how important they are.

460

So how do we begin to dismantle

these ideas of women as second class

461

citizens and all of the work that

feminist movements have been engaged

462

in for a very long time to really

dismantle the systems of patriarchy.

463

And so the witch burnings are

a part of the manifestation of

464

that, but it's also part of the

current trauma that we still carry.

465

They were not that long ago.

466

And so we have intergenerational trauma

that we're also all carrying forward.

467

That is also needing to be, um,

unveiled, unpacked, surfaced into

468

the sunlight so that we can begin

to heal it and transform it.

469

Um, and that's part of, part of

this work of the feminist movement

470

and the need to really bring

about egalitarian societies again.

471

And I would also say that, you know, I

don't think it's about putting men down.

472

I think it's about lifting women up.

473

It's about balance.

474

It's about balance.

475

And do you, do you see light

at the end of this long road?

476

Absolutely.

477

Um, I think we're in a

credibly difficult time.

478

I think that, um, it's dark.

479

It's a dark time between the

climate crisis, biodiversity loss.

480

Wars that are going on the horrors

that are going on in Gaza, the,

481

um, pain and suffering in Sudan.

482

We could go on and on.

483

Um, you know, every year there are more

people dying from fossil fuel pollution.

484

So no, I don't think in any way

we should paint a pretty picture.

485

Of the dire circumstance we're in.

486

And, you know, like I said, I just came

back from, from the cop and it's, you

487

know, yes, there were some gains, but

oh my goodness, there was over 2, 400

488

oil lobbyists, fossil fuel lobbyists,

rather at the, the, the, at, at the

489

climate talks and we could go on and

on about the difficulty there and the

490

lack of representation Of frontline

communities, indigenous and black and

491

brown women specifically in the need

to hear from those most impacted, uh,

492

the extraction that is going on so that

that list could go on and the horrors

493

that are going on under the name of,

of white supremacy and colonization

494

and perpetuating business as usual.

495

But for me, within that context, I, I

think while one world is burning, another

496

world is being summoned and brought forth.

497

And that's what keeps us all going,

is conversations we're all having now.

498

We couldn't talk about

colonization before, or racism.

499

You know, even in the context that

we do now or patriarchy, there is now

500

more knowledge about how to have these

conversations than there were before.

501

It's not enough, not nearly

enough, but those dialogues are

502

happening in the public sphere much

more than they were in the past.

503

I also would like to share just

a couple of real term examples.

504

One is, um, I'm really honored to

be on the steering committee of

505

something called the fossil fuel.

506

Non proliferation treaty, which

is a parallel, um, or a mechanism

507

that can work in parallel with

the Paris Climate Agreement.

508

And it was originally initiated by a

wonderful woman named Zipporah Berman.

509

And basically it's based on the

nuclear non proliferation treaty.

510

And the idea is that the Paris Climate

Agreement is really based upon carbon

511

Emission reductions, which is very

important, but it doesn't deal strongly

512

at all enough with fossil fuels.

513

I mean, they finally brought fossil

fuels drug them on a center stage.

514

It caught 28 because of civil society

and climate vulnerable countries.

515

But now we have this mechanism that

12 countries have signed onto that

516

specifically deals with the mechanism

for how we can actually phase out

517

fossil fuels, which is the core source.

518

Of the climate crisis.

519

So, um, I'm very excited because

at COP28, Colombia, which is an oil

520

producing country, a fossil fuel

producing country, endorsed the

521

treaty, and it's gaining momentum.

522

So that's something like, okay, this

is a real tool and mechanism and

523

instrument we can get to where we need

to go in terms of fossil fuel phase out.

524

And then the other thing that I am

also excited about I would mention is

525

I'm on the executive committee of the

Global Alliance for Rights of Nature.

526

Uh, which is also gaining

a lot of momentum.

527

Even the UN secretary general

said earth jurisprudence is one of

528

the largest growing environmental

movements in the last year.

529

And basically this is the idea that

rivers and forests and mountains

530

and ecosystems can have rights.

531

And this is very important because

right now a forest or river can't be

532

represented in a court of law because

it doesn't have its own standing.

533

It can only go into court if

a human owns that property.

534

And can talk about it as a property owner.

535

And so rights of nature is really

profound because it turns our system

536

of law upside down and inside out.

537

And says, actually, no, we need to put

earth at the center of the conversation.

538

We need a system of law where rivers

and forests and mountains also have

539

rights like we have human rights.

540

And so rights of nature is a form

of earth jurisprudence to do this.

541

And it's not just an idea.

542

It's an idea that's

actually being implemented.

543

As an example, in 2008 in Ecuador, they

were the first country in the world to put

544

rights of nature into their constitution.

545

And since then, there have been cases

that one rivers have been protected

546

with rights of nature legislation.

547

Across the United States, there

have been local ordinances to

548

protect communities from fracking.

549

In Colombia, there has been, uh,

rights of nature legislation to

550

protect the Amazon rainforest.

551

One of the stories that really moves

me, um, and I also put this into the

552

book is, um, I was really honored

to go with some colleagues from an

553

organization called Movement Rights,

who initiated a fact finding mission

554

in New Zealand, where the Maori people

who fought over a hundred years.

555

To protect the Wanganui River were finally

successful not two years ago in working

556

out a settlement with the New Zealand

government, where there are custodians

557

and guardians, one from the government

and one from the Wanganui tribe to

558

protect the Wanganui River as a relative,

as an ancestor within the worldview of

559

the Maori people of seeing, again, the

animacy of nature, As alive and as our

560

relative and they have always viewed

the Wanganui River as their ancestor.

561

And it was so beautiful to be

there with them to learn about

562

how they view their river.

563

And now the river is protected

under a personhood law to

564

be treated like a person.

565

So no harms can come to that

river just like you couldn't

566

harm another human being.

567

And I was taken by some of the elders

from the Wanganui tribe to, to meet

568

their river in a really sacred place

and went there with them to meet the

569

river, hear some of their traditional

songs, and they shared with me one of

570

the sayings that they have, which is,

I am the river and the river is me.

571

I am the river and the river is me.

572

And really that deep recognition that,

you know, the waters in our body, the

573

waters that we drink, the waters that

we bathe in, are how we are alive.

574

We are inseparable and how to really

embody that and to live with that

575

understanding, I think is key to also

unwinding a lot of the crises we're in.

576

And so, you know, going back to your

question, I mean, the hope for me is

577

that, you know, we have the fossil fuel

nonproliferation treaty, we have rights

578

of nature, we're seeing an incredible,

beautiful resurgence of Indigenous

579

knowledge and Indigenous leadership

that needs to be respected and honored.

580

We're seeing, uh, women.

581

Really rising up in every sector

and taking on more leadership.

582

None of this is enough, but when

we see sort of this ecosystem of

583

activities, We see how there is a

future that we're building that is very

584

different than the one that we're in.

585

There's all kinds of conversations

around food sovereignty and food

586

security and localizing organic farming.

587

We're seeing many conversations about what

is an economic system that is not based on

588

GDP, not based on endless economic growth

models, as an example, you know, doughnut

589

economics or beyond growth models.

590

Or degrowth models, or I really love

the concepts coming out of indigenous

591

people from the global South around

when Vivier or Sumat Kausai that are

592

very holistic that are looking at

how do we, how do we grow creatively?

593

How do we grow community?

594

How do we grow relationships instead

of how do we grow by extracting

595

things to make more stuff?

596

What are other ways that we can grow?

597

So I think this is where I really have my

hope in the innovations and creativity.

598

Of, of, um, a very different

perspective of what our, our

599

future agenda could look like.

600

I think we have to struggle for it.

601

I think we have to fight for it.

602

I don't think it's going to come easy,

but we need to keep mapping it out and

603

discussing it and speaking it awake

and enacting it and advocating for it.

604

And we, we owe this to the earth and

we owe this to our current and future

605

generations to do everything that we can.

606

You were very inspiring.

607

Thank you.

608

I have, I have one more question,

and I know we're almost at time.

609

What is next for you, Osprey?

610

What's next for me is, uh, really

growing the garden that I'm in, because,

611

uh, the Wims Earth and Climate Action

Outbreak is quite Expansive and growing.

612

And so I mentioned some of our

programs earlier and I would really

613

like them to scale in different ways

and be more reachable to others.

614

And I just want to name one project

again, just because I think it's

615

always great to hear the stories.

616

Um, I'm really excited about a lot

of our work around the forests and.

617

There's a wonderful weekend coordinator

named Bima Namadabdu who is in the

618

Democratic Republic of Congo and we've

been working with her for about eight

619

years and we have been reforesting.

620

Land that had been completely decimated

through slash and burn techniques

621

and environmental degradation.

622

I mean land that like

there's no green on it.

623

And as we know, forests are absolutely

central to um, lessening the climate

624

crisis and sequestering carbon.

625

So what we've been doing is planting trees

and working with over 700 women now in

626

the region to reforest this damaged land.

627

But some really wonderful things

have happened in this process.

628

One is eight years later, about 25

percent of the trees are being used

629

in the communities for human use

for food and shelter and medicines

630

and the things that they need.

631

75 percent of the trees are there to

rewild the land and heal the land.

632

But in this process, 1.

633

6 million acres of old growth forests

in the Etombe region are now being

634

protected because the communities are

not going in there to get their needs.

635

And so we're protecting old growth

forests, reforesting damaged

636

land, and then also providing

forests for, for human use.

637

So it's a very integrative process.

638

And then one of the things that's

been really Inspiring for me is

639

that I didn't think so quickly this

would happen, but the trees we have

640

planted have brought back the rain.

641

And so the entire ecosystem and

biome in that region is changing.

642

And of course, nature is the best healer.

643

And so all these trees and companion

species are growing everywhere within

644

the area that we have been planting.

645

And so now it's sort of our nurseries and

Mother Earth's nurseries working together.

646

And it's been really quite something

to see the healing that can happen.

647

And as.

648

Some listeners might know the DR Congo

is one of the most violent places in

649

the world for women because of all the

conflict and this has brought them a lot

650

of safety because they're not wandering

off collecting wood or medicines,

651

their trees are local, so it's a way

for the women to be more protected,

652

um, have more education and more time

to themselves and also changing their

653

status in their communities because

suddenly they're the ones because

654

they're the ones getting funded.

655

They're the ones doing the work.

656

They're the ones who are you.

657

In charge of this project and they're

being brought to different conferences to

658

speak about their victories and they're

being really centered as the leaders.

659

Um, it's been really beautiful to see

the social change in the communities and

660

the healing that the women tell me are

going on because of the role that they're

661

now playing in, in bringing so much

strength and change to their community.

662

So it's just another example of,

you know, how we can view change.

663

And why we need to really keep

growing, uh, women's leadership.

664

It's beautiful.

665

Thank you.

666

This has been fascinating.

667

Thank you so much for having

me here to join, uh, you both.

668

And I'm really excited to learn

about that work that you're doing,

669

because I do think that education.

670

And sharing right now is really

important because those of us who are

671

really dialed in are very focused on

these topics and very deep into the

672

research and the conferences we attend.

673

But I know it's so important that we

reach out and engage everyone because

674

everyone can do something and everyone

needs to do something because the window

675

of time we have is very short and we

need everyone on board and to find

676

their passion and their entry point.

677

And, and jump in because it really is

a time for all of us to get involved.

678

And everyone lives on planet Earth.

679

So it's about us, everybody.

680

Well said.

681

Thank you very much, Osprey.

682

Thank you.

683

You've been listening to Carbon

Sessions, a podcast with carbon

684

conversations for every day with

everyone from everywhere in the world.

685

We'd love you to join the Carbon

Sessions so you too can share your

686

perspectives from wherever you are.

687

This is a great way for our community

to learn from your ideas and

688

experiences, connect and take action.

689

If you want to add your voice to the

conversation, go to the carbonalmanac.

690

org slash podcast.

691

And sign up to be part

of a future episode.

692

This podcast is also part of

the Carbon Almanac Network.

693

For more information, to sign up for

the emails, to join the movement,

694

and to order your copy of the Carbon

Almanac, go to thecarbonalmanac.

695

org.

696

Be sure to subscribe and join

us here again, as together

697

we can change the world.