In this episode, we talk to Ms. Alexandria Pearson about the responsibilities of a special educator. Ms. Pearson explains different classroom settings, as well as her role as co-teacher, one-on-one pull-out instructor, and case manager for children with exceptionalities. We discuss individualized education programs, modifications, and transition to adulthood. This episode also provides information for pathways to becoming an educator. This episode was originally released under Teaching and Learning: Theory vs Practice Season 2 Episode 20.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

students, special education, teacher, support, classroom, children, special education teacher, classes, school, special ed teacher, work, shortage, parents, based, teaching, year, learning, special needs

SPEAKERS

Joi Patterson, Amy Vujaklija, Alexandria Pearson

And now like I'm just Pearson, I didn't I didn't know that. Like, I didn't know I could do that. And that just makes me feel fuzzy inside. It is a lot of work. I won't say that it was not, but it's also very rewarding.

This episode was originally released under the podcast titled teaching and learning theory versus practice. This rebooted episode has been migrated to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. I am Dr. Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation. And

I am Dr. Joi Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators.

So join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it.

Good morning, Amy.

Good morning, Dr. Joi. How are you this morning?

I am wonderful. And I'm happy about the discussion that we're going to have. I think it's an interesting subject for a lot of folks, people are interested in special education. So we're going to do this segment on what's so special about special education because there's a lot to unpack about special education, and I think it's a mystery for a lot of individuals.

I'm glad to introduce a guest today who can help unpack this mystery and guide us with this discussion. Alexandria Pearson works as a special education teacher learning specialist. She first completed her bachelor's degree in interpersonal communications at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale. After working in corporate America for a short while, she decided to go back to pursue her first love education. Miss Pearson completed her master's in multi categorical Special Education at Governor State University. And this year is at Mansueto High School where she works with ninth and 10th graders as a foundational science instructor, and CO teaches biology and chemistry. Welcome to this conversation.

Thank you so much for having me.

Good morning, Alex, it is wonderful to see you again. We're so happy that you could join us special education. I say it's kind of this mystery. Because I get phone calls every day about people who are career changers just like you just like Amy and myself. We're all career changers. So they call and they say okay, I want to be a teacher. And they leave it right there. You know, and I have to say, Okay, what kind of teacher do you want to be, you know, you want to be early childhood, you want to be elementaries, secondaries, special education? And they say, Well, what's special education? Always. And it's such a mystery for them. We all went to school, right? So we all know what those other grade levels are like. But if you have never receive special education services, it's a mystery to you. What is special education? What are special education teachers do? Who are special education, students, all of those things? So let's get started with you, Alex, I'm interested because you were a career changer. You went from communication. And actually, that is a great bachelor's degree to have in getting a master's in special education. So talk about why you even became a special ed teacher.

Okay. So I started, like you said, in interpersonal communications, it was a broad field that I could really do a lot of things like public relations working with firms. And I started my career at a law firm downtown. I just didn't like this is not. For me, it was really busy. It just wasn't for me, my parents were both educators. And I love watching my dad go to work and work with his students. He was actually an auto mechanical teacher, and he became a dean. He's like, just go back to school, like go get your Masters. And so I remember coming to gov site for the first time to get information about the program. And it was just a lot, but I was so excited that you all had offered a way that I could transform my bachelor's degree into education. And I worked as a substitute teacher for a while during that time period that I was going to school so I was getting my personal experience as well as learning at the academic level. So I was kind of comparing notes, basically. And I just loved it. And then I finished finally, in December of 2020, during the pandemic, so that was interesting. And I started working at Mansueto.

So you're still new in the field and you still love it? Yes,

it is challenging some days, I just love working with the students, just building those relationships with not only the students but with other teachers and learning is a daily job in learning. I will say that it's definitely a learning curve.

I'm sure listeners might know some or have heard some of the special education terms about the classroom spaces inclusive classroom, self contained, pullout, could you help cast some light on what these different spaces look like? Alright,

so we have pullout services, pullout services include actually going to take students out of the classroom, and working with them on an individual level based on their needs, that are always instructed by their IEP, so we have to follow their IEPs, which is their individual educational plan. I'm a co teacher at Mansueto. Oh, so I work in a general education classes with students that are academically prepared to handle the general educational courses. But we apply accommodations and some modifications to the curriculum. So I work as a co teacher in chemistry, as well as biology. And so my job in that classroom is kind of given the general education teacher information on how to best suit the needs for our students. And usually those students are students that have learning disabilities, they're usually labeled specific learning disabilities, or they have ADHD, I work with some students that have autism that are actually able to participate in the general educational curriculum is really individualized based on those students needs. I provide accommodations in the classroom for test homework, and then also just in class support for those students. And then I have third stricter classroom, where we have students that are not able to access the general education curriculum, those classes at my school are somewhat smaller. I work with those students with individually. So a lot of those students, they need more support, and maybe more individualized support, we kind of make a more personal educational plan for those students.

So now you see why there's so much to unpack, and special education because as a special education teacher, you may be working with kindergarten all the way up to high schoolers to age 22. So there's a lot and as Alex was saying, you may be pulling kids out of the classroom, but you know, we are under this law of least restrictive environment. So we want kids to be in the least restrictive environment possible. So if they can be mainstream if they and we want them to be included, as much as possible. So you'll see a lot of inclusion. And just think Alex is actually working with chemistry. So that might sound daunting. I'm a specialist teacher, how am I working with chemistry, because you actually are partnering with these teachers, right? To help support those students in their subjects. So there's a lot, there's a big field of what a special education teacher can do. So I do want to talk about the law since we were talking about least restrictive environment, and 504 was special education because all of this and the ability to serve these students come out of those 504 law. So how do these laws actually give students access to the education that they need? Okay, so

the law basically states like you said before, that we have to place students in the least restrictive environment possible that changes with each student, a student that has, say, autism might not be able to function, or be able to access the curriculum in the general education classroom. All of that is based on a psychological report that is usually done in the beginning of the process of the IEP for placement. And based on the tests that are administrative by the psychologist at our school, and our IEP team. We recommends specific services to the parent, and it's usually up to the parents to decide if they would like their children to access certain supports that we offer at our school, as well as the placement of their classroom. A lot of times parents, they understand their child, they're not against the services that we offer. We try our best to put students in classrooms where they feel like they're getting the support that they need, as well as not giving them classes that are like too easy or not academically challenging. So sometimes even when we have students that are placed, like we call it least restrictive three, so that's the bottom tier, where they started an instructional level. As time progresses, if they do really well, in those classes, they're able to come out of those classes. So they're able to go to a co taught set, it's always encouraged as a goal for students to try to make their way. If they feel like they don't want to stay with instruction, make it so the cold talk.

Let's talk about co teaching and that kind of planning. And you were talking about the individualized services, else about how you work with the General Education staff both in the classroom and outside the classroom.

I meet with my biology teacher and my chemistry teacher, we and we have to formulate a plan where I get the information that they're instructing the students about a week in advance so that I can make the proper modifications and accommodations to assignments for the students. There's a lot of communication involved a lot of team based support, because they're used to teaching general education students, and so they don't have a lot of background for our students. And so that's where I come in to give them direction, and support. This is my second year working with one of my teachers. So we kind of have formed a relationship where we understand each other and the students and what's expected. Another teacher that I work with this year, he's new actually to co teaching in a classroom. So we've been trying to get a rhythm of getting assignments completed so that we're both on the same page.

So let's talk about accommodations and modifications. When I'm teaching my method, students are looking at lesson plans. And we're talking about what accommodations and modifications might you make. Now in the beginning methods courses they are, they're not sure what these accommodations might look like. Could you explain more about specific accommodations that you might be using now in the classroom?

Yes, so at Mansueto, we use a lot of Google Classrooms still for students that have IEP, so they're able to bring their notebooks to class, where they have an immersive reader, which is an application that allows them to have the text read aloud to them in class. So that's a combination that a lot of students use, I also modify worksheets. So if they have like a homework assignment that is not on their reading level, I'm responsible for finding content to help them manage through the materials. So that might be providing extra notes or vocabulary words with visuals for students that are visual learners, a lot of my students I work with are visual learners. So I spend a lot of time creating worksheets that just show a lot of pictures or give different examples or different ways to look at things because they need additional examples. And then a lot of the combinations, I do also involve giving concrete instructions. So like for test, I might change a question where it's more understandable for the student where it's not so much science base, but they have a different way to look at it. So it just depends on what type of questions or I might reduce the amount of questions on the test. A lot of them have extended time. So allow them to have like extended time on might shorten assignment, not leaving out content, but just pulling a few questions that are kind of like repeating. Another thing that we do is I usually supply them with additional notes when they take exams that I've curated to help them navigate through the test when they're working by themselves. Because in my co taught classes, I still want them to feel like they're independent. Like I don't want them to rely on me to explain everything, especially with my 10 starters. I want them to just have resources that they can pull from so that they can understand the information and that works best for them and their individual needs.

This is a lot of information Alex and from now on. When I get those phone calls. I'm going to send them this link. Here. Listen to Alex Pearson Because there is a lot to unpack. A special ed teacher is very much a leader and has a lot of administer trait of duties as well and has to do a lot of networking, have relationships with parents, with general ed teachers. Also, with school support personnel, there's just a lot that goes on here to meet the needs of the children. And when we think of children, you know, that's the other question that they asked me all the time, who are special education children, because sometimes we see in our mind, children that may have physical disabilities, but it's not always children that have physical disabilities, there's many different categories to special education, we have lbs, one learning and behavior. And then we have lbs two and lbs three, you know, where we start to see some of the physical disabilities. So there are many ranges in which we serve these children. But for many of them, like the children that you work with, and the Learning and Behavior category, these children that need additional assistance, and they rely on special ed teachers to do individualized plans for them. But sometimes they also need other types of help right beyond academics. So how do you interact with the other school support personnel, such as the school counselor, the school psychologist, or the social worker? Are they involved in this process? Also?

Yes, of course, we wouldn't get far without our school psychologists, of course, and our social workers, which are great. A lot of our students, yeah, a lot. Now since we've come out of the pandemic, I've noticed a lot of them have a lot of social emotional issues that have been exhibited this school year, I have one student in particular, who's having a hard time transitioning, like during classes, because there's like a lot of influx of students in the hallway, I work with the social worker and the school psychologist to develop behavioral intervention plans for these students, where we can give them the support they need when they're having like panic attacks, anxiety attacks, or they're just displaying behaviors in the classroom that aren't appropriate. But a lot of times, we all come together, and we sit down and have another meeting about the best way to support the student going forward to help them navigate those emotions or those behavioral issues. Another thing that we're seeing right now, because we're going into Christmas break, and we're seeing a lot of behavioral issues, because students are kind of, you know, ready to get out of school, the social worker comes in to discuss behaviors that we might see in class. And we kind of compare notes because sometimes students, the way they act in one class, they don't act in another class. And so we kind of have to decide what are triggering these behaviors, or what type of things are needed to support the student in various classes so that these behaviors don't become bigger issues. We're all put our notes and stuff into the IEP. And we all kind of come together as a team to discuss and decide what's best for that student after we make our decision. During the IEP meeting, we lay out the rules basically on what we've decided, we let the parents decide if that's something that they're comfortable with a lot of our students with socio emotional needs, they meet with the social worker during school time for certain periods each week, so that they can get that one on one support. And then we have to let all of the instructors that work with that student know, this is what's going on with a student. If this happens, you do this or if this happens, you do that is a lot of team and community collaboration. Because we all have to be on the same page when working with those students that have social and behavioral needs.

You make such a great point about the teamwork that is essential in a school building. We cannot stress enough this shortage in all of these support personnel positions in schools, special education being one of those essential roles in the school building. That is a shortage.

Yeah,

what, what happens to children with special needs when they do not have services available to them?

Oh, I think that they're at a disadvantage, obviously, for students that don't get the support that they need. I've seen in I've worked at a different school outside of Minnesota where it was a lot of short staff. And a lot of times those students kind of like falling between the cracks. They have stopped coming to school altogether because they get discouraged. They don't feel like their needs are being met. Or they are kind of just discouraged about the content and they don't feel like they can participate. I've seen with those students, they'll just stop coming in. I've seen that happen this year as well, but not as much as the last school I worked with, I have a few students that their attendance has greatly declined, or they kind of just find ways to get out of class, whether that's behavioral issues, like they'll cause problems on purpose so that they can remove themselves. So I think even now, we have a shortage of instructors. And it makes it difficult because a lot of us have to like double the workload for ourselves. Because there is such a staff shortage. I think we lost three teachers this year alone, I'm always pushing our friends. They're interesting, right?

You're right, we have an overall teacher shortage. There's no way we can get around this conversation. We have a teacher shortage like never before, for a variety of reasons. And we've talked about this all the time. COVID didn't help because it was a very strenuous situation for a lot of fields, but especially in the medical and education field, and those who were able to retire, retired. And it just made the shortage even greater. There's even a more significant shortage with special education teachers. I'm glad that we're having this conversation with Alexandra Pearson, who's a special education teacher, going back to teacher shortage, we know that there's a teacher shortage, we can come up with all these reasons of why there's a teacher shortage with special education is the number one teacher shortage. And that's why we wanted to do this segment, because we don't think that folks know enough about special education, and what's so special about special education. So we do know that special education teachers are special, right? You are special. I mean, it takes a person to be very special to work with children who have additional needs, you're working more with their parents, you're working with school support personnel, you're working with your administrators and your other and CO teachers. And then our children that receive special education services, they are so special in so many ways. People don't know. So what do I do as a special education teacher who are special education children, it's a wide array, but just know what I want. Everyone to know who's considering education, maybe thinking about becoming a special education teacher is that it does take a special person, it takes a person with a heart with great disposition and love for children to be a great special education teachers. But once you're a special education, teachers, they tend to stay in the field for a very long time because they love their children. Amy, Alex, why do you think there's such a shortage in special ed in particular,

I wonder whenever you were talking about the meetings, there's a lot of administrative tasks that go along with being a special education teacher, the co teaching and the pullout and the working with the individual students is the best part of the work. I would imagine I've had a co teacher in my classroom for many years when I taught middle school and she was fantastic. And that was what she loved. She loved working with students. So guys, it's the administrative piece is what I would hear from special education teachers. That was maybe the downside. What are your thoughts on that?

It is a lot that has to go. There's a lot of moving pieces. That's why I'm very grateful for our team at the school because we do a lot of things together to get things done. And I realize that supporting each other is kind of like all we have, I love my job because as you both sped it, I love my students. I love seeing their faces light up when they get something that they weren't grasping before, or just giving them different tools that they're able to use. And I miss Pearson, I didn't I didn't know that. Like I didn't know I could do that. And that just makes me feel fuzzy inside. It is a lot of work. I won't say that it was not. But it's also very rewarding. So I'm not really sure why we have a specific shortage. I think it might be a little intimidating for people to know that you have to do so much individualized planning for students. I just always say that everybody's learning style is different. And so we all kind of need individual learning.

So we all benefit from an individual education program. Like

I don't think that is you know, it's just required by law that our students have that. Yes, yes. I always try to push that you do have a great support team. Like it's not just So you you're working with other instructors that I know a lot of teachers at my job have years of experience, and they're always like, come talk to me I can do, I can help you with this. And there's always tons of resources. So I never feel like I'm just handling my students alone, even like the students on my caseload and stuff is really a team effort. And to me, that makes it easier, actually. Because I can go to my veteran teachers and ask them like, Hey, I have this student, or Hi, I have this issue with this content, how can I deliver this in a way that makes them more effective and reaching the students, I never feel like we should have specific shortages, because we get a lot of support.

In many school districts, special education, teachers get paid more. So that is another bonus. I mean, special education teachers are value, your schools do get additional monetary support for children with special needs. And that's the cover resources. And like I say up for salaries, because there's so much that goes into assisting children with special needs, you know, what really concerns me, because you talked about even at the high school level, and this pandemic has had an impact. Also, the UC students drop off, especially children with special needs. We see in the traditional classroom, students are dropping off more, they're having social emotional learning challenges due to COVID. Even more so children with special needs, and you see them drop off. And sometimes literally, they stopped coming to school or their attendance is just really poor. So what concerns me and I'm glad we're talking to you as a high school special education teacher. What about that transition from high school to adulting? What kind of support does the school provide to help them with that transition? Because that's difficult. We get students with IEP s at the university all the time, children with IPS with learning disabilities with physical disabilities come to college, they're in our classroom. And we have to follow an IEP as well. But is this challenging for some students to make this transition? Because you guys have such wraparound services? And then I graduated from high school, what how do you prepare them? In

the IEP, there's a section that is specifically dedicated to transitional services. And that is a plan that is created for students that are 14 and a half and up where they have to let their case manager know what type of things they're interested in following High School. And so during high school, while they're there for the four years, we work on those specific transitional goals, to help them progress towards what they want to do once they graduate. So a lot of my students are interested in like training programs where they get work trades, so like Plumbing mechanics, a lot of them are interested in just a tray, job, electricians, something that they can do in two years or less. And then I also have students that want to go to college. And so we support them by providing them resources for them and their parents resources for different programs mostly provided by DHS, we have another program that's called Adult matters. There's tons of programs for students to access classes once they graduate. And during high school, they have summer programs that give students opportunities to volunteer and get their feet wet as juniors and seniors and training guides over the summer that they can participate in. So that's another individualized thing for each student based on what they want to do. And then once they graduate we convened during their senior year and we provide them with direct resources to specific colleges specific training programs that they can enter. And our college team, they actually help them fill out applications. They sometimes take them to these schools and trade programs so that they can get experience based learning where they actually can see things in real time. I have one student that wanted to be a mechanic and I had him work with our college team and an instructor where he was filling out applications to different trade schools around Chicago. He was actually able to go to the school and see what they did to kind of spark his interest because it's one thing to read this stuff on paper but then see it in real time. He was really excited about that. Each student's transitional plan is different. We like I said it's tied to the IEP so we always have to consult with the parents about what their student is interested in. But that's also individual bass. So based on just what they need, or what they want to do, if they're not extended students where they have to stay after they turn 18, and they graduate, then we provide them with various resources that they can go out and check these things out that they're interested in, or help them with application process so that they can transition successfully.

And I'm glad you mentioned the extended students because now we see why special education is kindergarten through age 22. It used to be K through 12. But we've learned that many children with special needs need to stay in school longer. And now they're able to stay in school up to age 22, which is remarkable, because if 18, like you said, they can find their own paperwork, and sometimes they can sign themselves out of special education services.

I haven't worked with the student that stayed until you still need to yet but I've had heard of that happening for students that needed that additional support. And I think is a great thing because some students aren't ready for the real world at at and they need additional schooling or additional support and one on one services that can all be administered at the school level. So they're not out there just kind of like winging it, or trying to figure things out by themselves. So I appreciate they have that opportunity.

You talked earlier about how warm and fuzzy it is to see a child's eyes light up that I got it light bulb moment, that, to me is an indicator of success. But what are other indicators of success for students with exceptionalities? What types of tracking do you do? And is this difficult, especially when they're starting to maybe drop off or drop out?

Of course, what are IPs in the academic areas, each students have specific learning goals. And so their track on their progress is based on benchmark that are created by the learning specialists in that classroom and kind of overviewed by their case managers. Each benchmark is set in a quarterly fashion where we review each student's goals for that quarter, and see if they're progressing toward their yearly annual goals, sometimes a challenge because each student has different goals. And we have to make sure all of the students are benchmarked by certain time so that their IEP report cards are completed, and they're updated for the parents to see where their students are academically. I also have noticed that a lot of the students because of the pandemic and because of remote learning, a lot of students progressed with where they stood prior to their IPs be created before the pandemic. This year, it's been not difficult, but a lot of the IEP goals are kind of being repeated, because they were not able to meet those benchmarks and those goals because of the remote learning. And a lot of them kind of slipped through the cracks during that time period. Because at our school, a lot of students weren't attending. There was a lot of

and then there was a lot of cameras, all this is general ed students as well. I hope that our listeners are saying what's so special about children with special needs. What's so special about special education teachers, I mean, it is really special. And it's great. One of the things because we do have a great need for special ed teachers. There's a lot of funding available for people who want to pursue a degree and licensure to be a special ed teacher, there's minority teacher scholarships, there special education scholarships, so there's lots of funding for someone who's interested like you a career changer who wants to come back, join us at Governor state maybe to become a special ed teacher anywhere, especially Governor State University, because we offer a master's in special ed, our program is that night, so we make it conducive for that working adult. All of our classes are offered in the evening, you can finish in two years, we have the Masters of Arts and multi categorical special education. That's for the learning and behavior. And you can do that in two years, you know, so you can do it in two years by going to school in the evening with a cohort with people that support you. Also, we have the MA for advanced special ed. So those are individuals who are already teaching. But now you want to come back to earn a master's degree in special education and an endorsement in special education. So there's an evening cohort for that as well. So Alex, you've been doing this for a little while now. So I'm waiting to see you come back to get your endorsement as a special education director. Now that is an administrative position and that's a lot more money. So we're looking forward for you coming back for you, Alex, that means you taking only four additional courses. Did you know that for four additional courses, you can get an endorsement as a special education director, so limited to special education teachers and school support personnel and administrators that you can do that. So we are looking forward to you coming back to your home at GSU. And adding special education director to your license.

That would be amazing. I didn't know it was only four classes. But that's great.

A lot of people don't know that you have to have a master's degree. So a lot of people with special education licensure. They don't know that it's only for additional courses for school support personnel for that counselor is only for courses. So anybody who's interested in want to get started, you can start by emailing me my email address is posted. I will contact you with Jason vignoni, our graduate admissions director, he will get them started with the process. Karla Jackson will be the advisor she will help you get to to and through the program will offer a lot of support. We are family there.

What are your encouraging words,

I feel that if you have the heart for it, like Dr. Joi explained, that is very rewarding on working with students. It's a lot of fun, they keep me young, I will say that. Always a lot of energy, a lot of jokes, a lot of lab, we have a lot of fun in my classes. I don't want it to be daunting, like the work because there is a lot of work that goes with it. But like I said before, I worked in corporate America, and there's a lot of work that goes in there as well. But it's not the same type of feeling like when I go home at the end of the day, I feel like I've made a difference. I didn't have that feeling after I left my previous job. And that's what keeps me going every day that I know that I'm doing something that helps other people. And that just means a lot to me. So outside of the work outside of sometimes it does get a couple I don't want to make it like peachy keen, because there are times where you have a little setbacks. But at the end of the day, and even at the end of the school year, last year, we were like we did it. This was a really tough school year. But we all made it through. I had older students last year, so they were graduating, they were 12th graders, and just the support that they gave me like just sending emails, like obviously you're saying just the students and their spirits is really encouraging just to help them get to those levels that they want to meet and exceed. I worked in the life skills classroom last year, so I was teaching students skills that they needed to be successful outside of the classroom, I still get emails from my students, and that just warms my heart as well. Okay. class even if your camera was born? Yes,

we've talked about how to go into special education and to be a teacher after having a bachelor's degree. But what about the paraprofessional pathway? If someone who is interested in completing a bachelor's degree in special education, what advice do you have? So

here we have a parent to Teacher Program, actually, so this is a new program, we have developed cohorts for parents to teacher where paraprofessionals can take their courses for their degree and licensure during the evening, or hybrid or weekend. So we have different paths depending on what program you're going into. The great thing about the pair to teacher is that we partner with your school district, and your school district agrees to allow you to to have all of your field experience and your student teaching job embedded. That means you do not have to quit your job to become a teacher. So when it's time to student teach your student teaching in your district without having to quit your job. And so your school district is supporting you. And we are supporting you. So we know that paraprofessionals can be the answer to this teacher shortage. We've learned that they live in the community in which they work. We know that they are passionate about teaching and that they love children. So they're already connected. So which is why we started this parent, a teacher contact us we'll get you more information about the parent, a teacher program, and then beyond that, to earning your master's degree as a special education teacher.

This has been a great conversation. I have really learned a lot as I always do when I'm having a conversation with our guests and with Dr. Joi. And

they don't leave me out. I

mean Yeah. Whenever we're talking, for sure. And I appreciate Alex, you joining us this morning,

and I'm sure we'll be sending student teacher your way. So

nice to me. Thank you so much for having

me. And we're so excited to have our listeners and I just want to give a shout out to all special education teachers, all parents who have children with special needs, and to children that have special needs and that you know that you are loved and you have great support. Thank you very much.

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joy. Visit our website at govst.edu/teaching and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode.

We appreciate Governor State University's work behind the things to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi