This week’s guests are James Cameron and Joe James from True Strays. True Strays is an Americana band. 

I spoke with the guys in December of 2022. So, when they talk about “next year”, they mean this year, 2023. They are going on tour so check them out in the UK! If you’re not in the UK, then listen to them online.

The childhood friends were recording their debut album when the pandemic hit in 2020 and had to figure out how to move forward. They launched a Kickstarter campaign and found success there and that they already had some great fans in their corner.

Both of the guys work full-time jobs outside of the band and then focus on the band during nights and weekends! One is a roofer and one is a primary school teacher. You’ll need to listen to find out who does what.

Topics we get into:

• Pursuing creativity after the day job ends
• Musical influences and Americana
• Songwriting and lyric subject-matter
• Live performance
• The importance of collaborating versus working alone
• Entertaining and bringing people together through music

Note from Rabiah (Host): 

You’ll hear at the end how I met True Strays. This was a fun chat because they guys were super giving and thoughtful with their answers but also because it took me back to my days at Piratepods, my first podcast, where friends and I spoke to musicians. I have tickets to see the band later in the year and can’t wait. Enjoy the chat and check out their music!

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Find True Strays

Website: trustrays.com 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/truestrays/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/true_strays/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/truestrays 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiTnmZC4kocsdBRH-6YQqzg 

 +++++ 

Mentioned in this episode:

Rob Heron and the Tea Pad Orchestra: https://teapadorchestra.co.uk/ 

Ann Liu Cannon: https://www.instagram.com/annliucannon 

Spiritual Bar: https://www.spiritualrecords.co.uk/ 

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More than Work Facebook, Instagram, Twitter: @morethanworkpod Please review and follow anywhere you get podcasts. Thank you for listening. Have feedback? Email morethanworkpod(at)gmail.com!

This is More Than Work, the podcast reminding you that your self-worth

is made up of more than your job title.

Each week I talk to a guest about how they discovered that for themselves.

You'll hear about what they did, what they're doing, and who they are.

I'm your host, Rabiah.

I work in IT, perform standup comedy, write, volunteer, and of course, podcast.

Thank you for listening.

Here we go.

Hey everyone.

So I have two guests on this episode, I think for the first time.

So I have James Cameron and Joe James from True Strays.

They're a band that I heard about living over here in the UK.

They're out of Bristol and so thanks for being on More Than Work guys.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah, thank you.

And do you wanna introduce yourselves so everyone

can know which voice is whose?

Hi.

Yes.

I am Joe James.

I play bass and sing in True Strays.

And I'm James Cameron and I sing and play

guitar and we both write songs.

Awesome.

Well, and where am I talking to you guys from right now?

Where are you at?

We're in Bristol, in James's front room of his home.

Nice, nice.

And you guys have been touring lately, so I'm pretty busy.

So how's the tour going?

It's, it's, it's been a lot of fun.

It.

Yeah, as I kept saying to you on, uh, messaging, I just get so tired

I can't organize anything so . But yeah, we've done, um six or seven

dates now with Rob Heron and the Tea Pad Orchestra supporting them on

their album tour for the new album.

And it's been just been really fun hanging out with those guys

and, um wherever we played, London

Leeds, Darlington,

Sheffield, Andover, and then we're playing

Stroud with them tomorrow.

So it's quite a nice stress-free way to tour supporting someone else.

It feels

. Joe James: Yeah,

it feels good.

Yeah.

You're not responsible for everything, including, I guess, ticket sales

and stuff like that too, so,

exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's kind of, there's not really any money in it, but

you kind of can relax and just, anything's a bonus really, so, yeah.

Yeah, that's, that's great.

And I guess first of all, just starting out with, um, you guys, and you guys

were gonna tour and you were getting your album together before the pandemic, right?

And then basically had to kind of stop things and pivot.

So you wanna talk a little bit about how that went?

Yeah, yeah.

As you said, we were halfway through recording our debut album before

2020 came and scuppered a lot of people's plans, us included.

After deliberating how we're gonna carry on and complete this album,

we decided with fear to, uh, start a Kickstarter campaign, a crowdfunder,

and ask our fans if they could help chip in to, um, complete the album.

And we started off thinking we'll try and raise around £4,000.

That might get us a little further down the line of the recording.

And when we started the crowdfunder, we had 30 days to raise that

money, and I think on day three we had raised £4,000 pounds.

And then by the end of the campaign, our wonderful band base had chipped in

nearly £10,000 for us to complete the album, which was absolutely mind blowing.

And we finished.

And it's out.

Yeah.

Well and that's amazing just to get all that support.

And I think that was at a time where we didn't know how long things were

gonna last with the whole pandemic and people were kind of stuck at home.

But also all, all artists were kind of put on hold at some point too.

So before that, how long had you guys had the band together?

This band?

Uh, well we kind of started hatching plans towards the

end or the summer of 2016, I think.

And then, um, we kind of launched the band officially with our

first release in April, 2017.

Yeah, we were kind of nearly three years in, just over three years into,

uh, into the project and kind of coming out of a series of other projects

that me and Joe worked on together.

We were very keen to kind of make up for lost time and

really be focused and work hard.

So, um, yeah, the pandemic was a, a unique cha challenge for us and a lot of people,

but one I think that probably gave us more clarity about how we wanted to work

and have more focused periods of gigging.

And also, yeah, it enabled us to really reach out to a community that

we didn't fully recognize was there.

So that also has given us good foundation to move forward from as well.

It

is

amazing that your fans stepped up the way they did to really

enable you to do the next thing.

It shows they, they wanted it to come out.

And before you guys really got into music full-time, a hundred percent what

you're doing now, I believe, right?

You're both full-time on this?

We are full-time, but we're also full-time on working jobs as

well, so, really we're double time.

Double time, yes.

It doesn't really feel like you're putting half the energy into either, you know.

We're putting hundred percent into both sides of our lives or

those two parts of our lives.

So we do work jobs aside from the music as well.

So it's not entirely true to say we're full-time musicians, cuz that's

not where all our income comes from.

But energy wise, it feels like 200% goes into, uh, everything we do in our life at

the minute, which is fine because we enjoy making the music , so that, that's fine.

Sometimes it feels hard though, yeah, balancing a work life

and, um, a passion project.

The rewards come in different shapes and sizes such as the crowdfunder

that kind of, we didn't realize that reward was gonna be so rewarding to

us as like, as James said, we didn't realize that community was there.

So you get your rewards through your passion projects and ways

you don't really expect, which is nice, even if it's not monetary.

Right.

What are your day jobs that you guys are doing?

Myself, I, I'm doing roofing.

I got into building and roofing with some friends of mine when I was

looking for a job about four years ago, and I've been learning that craft

I guess, for the last four years now.

So yeah, that's my midweek work.

I work three or four days a week as a primary school

teacher, just a couple miles from my house teaching year two.

So they're six and seven.

Yeah.

I think both hard jobs are draining in different ways.

Yeah, the band sometimes some of those longer drives can be quite hard.

Half an hour or hour on stage makes it all worth it to connect

and uh, sing the songs.

And do you find that, I don't know.

I know with my, cause I, you know, just stand up comedy, but then I

have my day job and I'm nowhere near right now, like going, doing comedy

more than doing the day job, but

mm-hmm.

sometimes I find that knowing I have a gig to look forward

to helps me kind of deal with things at work, you know that yeah, I,

maybe five years ago or something I couldn't deal with as well just

because that was all I had to do.

Are you guys, do you have any like way where even though you're working

hard and basically working 200%, do you find that having the pursuit of

your actual passion and your passion project of True Strays helps you with

managing, just dealing with the day job?

I think it definitely does.

I think we both enjoy our day jobs, you know, at times and to some extent, like

anything you, you have your moments of joy and your moments of hard, hard shit.

But yeah, definitely whereas I'm out roofing and sometimes it's a cold

week and you're out in the rain, in the wind, and I was thinking,

what the hell am I doing up here?

Should be out there playing music, that's what I love to do.

But then that drives you, like you say, you know, on a Friday or a Saturday.

You're gonna load up the van and even at that point, sometimes that can feel like

a slog, but once you get on that stage and you're in, in the moment of a gig and

playing certainly does make it worthwhile.

So, yeah, it, it does drive the working week knowing that you're

going out to do something you love and care about at the end of the week.

For sure.

It does for me.

Yeah, I feel the same.

It's when I'm at work on a Monday, I'm kind of like on my lunch break, you know?

Keeping things moving, checking the emails, scheming out next kind of

creative ideas or, yeah, no, it's really nice to have that escape from work and

it's, it's a nice balance to have one, which is like working with humans and

trying to give and help and serve them and give a lot of yourself to that job.

So that's quite draining.

And then, yeah, being a musician is kind of a different part of the brain.

So it's, they can compliment each other really well, but when,

when I've got my schedules wrong, they're, they're not great friends.

Late nights, early mornings, so to speak.

But yeah, I really look forward to the weekend.

It feels like I'm earning that right to go and stand on the stage and sing my songs.

I feel like I've done, done my hard shift and I can go and be creative.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah, it's a funny thing and I mean, you guys are doing it on such

a bigger scale, but I just think even the statement that, you know, maybe

it could even feel difficult just getting to the stage, but then once

you're on there, it's a lot different.

I, I go through this a similar thing where sometimes I'm like, oh, I have to put on

makeup and then I have to leave the house, get on the, you know, do all that stuff.

But then all of a sudden you're in the middle of things and it's

like, oh, this is why I'm doing it, cuz I feel this way about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's the, uh, it's probably a mindset that a lot of creative people

share if you perform live, you know.

Like you say, just get to that point where you get to do the thing you actually

want to be doing until you, exactly on that point, it can sometimes all feel a

bit, a bit slow and heavy to get there.

Yeah, and I think that's quite often not really discussed is like

the, uh, the mental barriers you face just to get on the stage or to put a song on

Spotify or to record, you know, to do a joke on stage or put something on YouTube.

Like there's a lot of, uh, a lot of internal process you have to go

through to get to that point to find your voice and the confidence to share,

share that thing in the wider world.

And you know, I grew up pretty shy and uh, yeah, it's been not, it's

not easy sometimes, but the more you do it, the easier it gets.

It's definitely helped me become a more confident and,

uh, rounded individual, I think.

Cool.

And one thing I found interesting when I was able to discover you for

myself and see you guys was just the genre of music, the Americana music.

Cause I, as, as an American, I didn't realize that that was

kind of even a thing over here.

You know, the, the exports from the UK that I heard were definitely a

different genre, and so how did you get into this style of music and is it

something you've always played or did you kind of end up here after a while?

Well, I think growing up, both me and James, we kind of

grew up on similar music through our parents and through what they

were listening to through classic rock, rock, and roll, a bit of soul.

And then as we became young adults, through going through different bands

through our teenage years, we both ended up in a band with another guy called

Sam Green, and he was a big blues and folk guitarist, singer songwriter.

So as we joined his band, I think we learned a lot of our blues and

Americana kind of sound through performing with that band for five,

six years and the influences that we.

Through the songs that we played with him and the bands that

we then started to listen to.

The American bands and the British bands.

And then through that we kind of evolved into just, that's what,

that's kind of the songs we wrote.

I mean, James was getting into playing bottleneck slide guitar and once you

that up, that's obviously a direct transition straight back to the Blues

scene of, uh, the Southern America.

Yeah, I think it's just a sound that we both enjoy.

I think the songwriting side of it and the sound that, as we say, Americana,

bands like Credence Clearwater Revival, Neil Young or more modern acts like

Nathaniel Rateliff and the Night Sweats.

The sound that these, these bands created just obviously resonates with

us , which I'm very happy about cause it's nice to be able to play that

music as well as enjoy listening to it.

Yeah, for sure.

And I enjoy a, a lot of your songs that, like just the messaging around them too.

And, um, are the lyrics something, cause you seem to write about

personal things, but also you, you have issue related songs.

Like This Is an Emergency, is, you know, I think, pretty clearly

about climate change if unless I misinterpreted the whole song...

No, you've got that, right?

Yeah.

And so I, what, one thing I noticed is though there are a

few bands that are writing songs about issues and stuff, a lot of

people stay away from that still.

And it, which is interesting just because the protest songs have always been part

of the culture, at least in the US, and I don't know as much about here.

But, I feel like there aren't that many.

And so that particularly was interesting to me.

But then also like the more personal songs.

How do you go about writings, songs and, and lyrics?

I mean, This Is Emergency is a song that, I, that I wrote about

yeah, about the climate crisis through a kind of personal experience, you know,

restless personal experience swimming in, in the sea on off the coast of Ecuador.

I think for me it's like I feel the personal stuff's important, but then I

feel a lot of Americana just sticks to safe subjects like alcohol, romance,

motorbikes, the devil, you know?

And I just feel like a lot of those subjects get talked about enough.

And what's important to me is, is to discuss my fear around climate breakdown

and, and the lack of inaction, um, both in England and, you know, internationally.

So yeah, it's like for me, I try and voice that, that passion that I have

for the environment and, and the future of our planet through, through song.

And there's, normally I try and have a song like that for each

batch of songs that's kind of focused on something environmental

or something political or social.

And we've both written songs of those, both personal and stuff like that.

What do you think, Joe?

Lyrics to songs, yeah, they come out in different ways.

Sometimes lyrics are fine.

They just appear, they haven't really put any thought into what

I wanted to write down or sing.

And the emotion just kind of comes through in that moment.

Other times, yeah, as James says, you try and craft something with specific message.

Um, but it's nice to have a, a wide range of topics, especially when

you're kind of putting down an album.

You don't want every song to be a love song , or every song to be a a party song.

You know, it's nice to have different subject matter, but yeah,

it's going back to your question about songwriting and lyrics, it

just comes out in different ways.

There's no one way which a song seems to form or a cure.

Mm.

I I think for me it's just like sometimes with like those, um, some of those like

social justice issues or, you know, with, with This Is An Emergency, it's

a song that I feel really passionate about singing, but when it comes to

trying to say something about it before I sing it, I find that really difficult

because I don't know, you know, I think the best I've ever said, it's just

like, oh, this is a song about grief and, and the climate crisis, you know,

that was just quite short and sweet.

I always question whether it's necessary to explain or whether you're just gonna

alienate people by harping on about the need for everyone to do something

or, you know, so yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting area to step into

with into how, how you into that fear about talking about something

you care about in front of a crowd who, dunno, who we are.

Yeah, I think on a live...

It's one thing having the song on a record and people can listen to it as

and when they wish, but when you're in a room full of people, you have

such a broad widths of, political ideas in people and what they believe

and what they stand for, you know.

You're kind of all there for one reason at a gig cuz you wanna

see a band and enjoy some music.

But beyond that, you don't really know the thought process behind people,

what they stand and believe in.

So often find when we've done political or songs that aren't

your love songs and whatnot, they can get a mixed response live.

Yeah.

You know, if you mention something you might think is just a

broad idea, there's a lot of people out there who don't agree with.

And then sometimes you feel that in an audience, if you mention,

Do you remember that gig we played up north.

Yeah.

And, Joe's written this song called Feed the Belly, and

he just made a very general intro to the song, like, this is a song about

politicians not really fixing problems, just exacerbating them and not really

doing anything about the root causes.

And I was like, yeah, Joe, I'm so proud of you for saying that.

And I'm just, we got heckled real bad.

Did we?

Yeah.

The room went.

Don't mention politics in Hartlepool.

Yeah.

Someone was just like, oh, here we fucking go.

Yeah.

And, we were just, I remember feeling really

scared about that potential, you know, ramifications of someone.

It's just very interesting how fragile you are.

Yeah, that gig had been going really well up to that point.

It was about halfway through it, like right, this is going good.

Crowd are enjoying us.

We're enjoying them.

Okay, let's drop something a bit more, uh, gritty in there.

It is an interesting thing cause like with comedy, I don't do much

political humor over here just because it's not, I, I haven't felt like it's

my place, although now I've caught on, so it's a little easier for me to do.

I mean, this week's been really easy cuz you just talk about, you

know, who's the next chancellor?

Or am I gonna be the next chancellor or something?

You know, they made it too easy even for anyone to do it, but.

But yeah, I mean, you can really, you can, you can just alienate

a crowd and then you lose them and then it's, it's really tough.

And I imagine with music too, it's just like, I guess you can play

over their boos at some point.

, but like

Yeah.

That has to be hard.

Yeah,

we, um, we've been touring with a friend's band last year

called Holy Moly and the Crackers.

Speaking to them about a similar topic, what we're talking about,

politics and subject matter and songs.

His, his process when he goes to gigs, he's like, right, it's Friday

night or whatever night of the week.

Everyone's here just to have fun.

Don't rock the boat.

Let's just all get in this together.

And no matter what's happened during the week.

So, you know, that's his, his mindset is that, you know, we're all in this

room together, let's have fun and not, not think about too much about

the problems we've had all week.

And I kind of like that idea, um mm-hmm.

, but at the same time

it's, it's amazing.

Like not always touring England at the moment.

And, you know, whil.

The whole time under austerity, it's, you're seeing towns

literally falling apart.

And, and we go into these places with a lot of, kind of pretty downbeat people.

And as Joe just said, sometimes, like last night, sometimes it's

just nice to make people feel good and connect with each other.

You get 'em talking, you get 'em singing and maybe that's the biggest,

most important thing that we need to be doing right now is bringing people

together and getting them laughing and having a good time and singing.

So, you know, it's a hard balance to strike, I think.

Yeah, and ultimately you want people to, they're

coming to see your music, right.

They're not coming to hear you speak necessarily though.

I, I don't know.

It's hard cuz it is important you say certain things, but then also, yeah, you

have to recognize what they're there for.

And you guys definitely, I mean, just experiencing you live, you're

great performers and there's a real camaraderie between you on stage.

And do you think a lot of that just has to do with how long you

guys have known each other or do.

. I guess, do you just like when you practice, do you work at that

performance part too or is that something you just develop on on stage?

I think that's, it's just happened.

It's how it is.

I mean, like you say, cause we've known each other from the ages of five

or so, we've, I, you know, I didn't really even notice the bonds that there

is between us, until people started pointing out, oh, you guys have such

a, a way on stage together and this and that, and it's like, oh yeah, we do.

And it's just second nature.

So it's not something that we've crafted out really at all.

I think it just comes from a place of pure enjoyment when we're on

the stage with your friend playing your music, it's just feels great.

And I think obviously that comes through us and the audience can feel that, or you

certainly seem like you saw something that represents that, and that's, that's great.

So, no, it's not something we've crafted.

It's just, I think, just a natural way of how it's been knowing each

other so long and doing something you love together in that moment.

well, it's great and it's really, it's just cool to see.

Do you know, do you remember when the it was that you first

started, each of you writing songs?

I mean, a lot of people play music and they never might write a song, right?

They just play other people's music.

So do you know how you got started doing that?

Or do you remember?

, James Cameron: well I think I wrote

and I'd been playing the guitar a couple of years and I think, um,

I was a pretty emotional teenager.

I used to, uh, eat lots of cookies when I came home from school and sulk

in my room, . And, uh, I think, yeah, writing became a bit of an outlet for,

uh, you know, my sensitivities, uh, which I wasn't very good at expressing.

But then it was something I kind of kept to myself and it was only

really when me and Joe started this band, it was like, oh, okay.

I need to have the courage to share my songs now, and I hope Joe likes

this one and this one could work.

And so, yeah, that's kind of my journey with it.

What about you, Joe?

Yeah.

Um, around 11 or 12, I had an acoustic that used to belong to my mom.

I believe that was in the house I used to strum on and started writing

songs about girls from school.

And same thing.

They were just songs you wrote maybe on a pad, and then nothing came of them.

I guess it's just a way of expressing those teenage emotions.

But actual crafting and thinking about songs more seriously came in, kind of in

the twenties, late teens, early twenties.

for myself, yeah.

Was always writing, but always not sharing or didn't have an

outlet for it at that point.

But then, yeah, once we got to the late twenties and was playing in this band,

and the band previously that me and James were in, started to feel like the

songs I writing were actually okay and maybe they could stand up for themselves

on a stage and with a band and started to slowly push them to the forefront.

And then, yeah, thankfully the guys in the bands and James is enjoying those songs.

And so now it becomes more of a, a natural thing just to write songs and

present them with James to each other.

Um, yeah, it feels, it feels good.

And we write songs together as well.

Some songs we bring that are kind of 80% already formed on our own, and we'll

bring 'em to each other to finish off.

Some songs we'll sit in a room together and start on a riff and

a lyric idea and hash it out for a few hours and see what comes out.

So yeah, it's nice, nice to have different, different

approaches to, um, creating songs.

Hmm.

Yeah, and I didn't, I didn't think about the vulnerability around just you

writing the songs and, and playing them for some reason, just because I almost

thought of you guys like in a band so I just feel like there's several people

taking the brunt of that in a way.

But yeah, they are the songs you write and so, I don't know it's interesting

to think about it in those, those terms with songwriting versus other

things like see someone read a poem on stage or something, you know?

So, huh.

Yeah, it's quite, it is weird when you write something

that you really like, but then you're a bit, cuz you really like it.

It's kind of, yeah, it's quite special and personal.

It's then, yeah, it's kind of A bit scary to then share it with, with your

best mate and someone who you, you know, you hope the song will be good enough.

You know, so it's, it is the process of like, but I think it's one that

we're really getting good at now after a couple of years and got an album

under our belt and the new batches of songs we're writing, it's, we've both

more kind of clear on what we're right in and how to collaborate and it's

a lot quicker and a lot easier and a lot more, yeah efficient and fun.

So, yeah, it's just, you've just gotta stick out really.

It's not, not easy, but you can get, get, get there, you know?

And I think that's the beauty of, I'm the kind of person, if I wasn't

working with Joe, like I wouldn't really finish any of my songs.

I wouldn't really put them out there.

Need that like collaboration and that team goal to motivate me so, Yeah.

How is it in the, the comedy world?

Do you ever, cause that's quite a solo endeavor, isn't it, really?

I mean, you don't have a, a partner or someone you throw jokes around

with and come up with something, or is it always just on your own?

Hmmm.

Well, so for me, I, I thought it was supposed to be on my own.

So I spent the first two and a half, I mean, I've only been going for a

little around three years, so not very long, but, um, I thought it was alone.

I thought I was supposed to do it all alone and be alone in it.

And it was, it's a very isolating thing and I do have someone now who's it, it

just, it's a really special relationship because they are looking at my stuff

and talking to me about what I'm doing on stage and kind of the structure of

jokes, and I can go to him with that.

You know, we don't talk much about his material, just cuz I think

he's pretty advanced from me.

But we could, um, but he has people he talks to.

And then I've, I've, as this has happened now, this kind of relationship has

formed, I've learned from other people how many people do collaborate and so,

yeah, it's very interesting once you start talking to people and they're, and,

and they start telling you about that.

So yeah, I thought it was a solo thing, but I think almost similar probably to

what you guys are saying, but when you introduced it to someone else then there's

a way to collaborate on it, even though I'm the one telling the jokes on stage

and someone might gimme my best line, and if I u that hasn't happened yet,

but I'm sure it'll happen one day and I'll be like, oh, I didn't write that,

but I guess I'm gonna say it , you know?

So, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, we, we play other people's songs every now and then, and

you know, it's, and that's great.

It's, there's nothing wrong with that, is there?

You know, as long as you're not taking someone else's work for your own.

As long as you're honest about it when you need to be, I think it's great to

play other people's songs or for you to say other people's material in the

right moment, think there's nothing wrong with that really, is there?

Mm-hmm.

. Rabiah (Host): Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like your material and then they're adding to it and

helping you make it better.

Yeah.

It's, you know, if you go up and do someone's whole routine and pretend

that you're on, that's a problem.

Yeah.

That's a bit, yeah.

. James Cameron: But I think there is that,

idea of you have to do it on your own, whether you know, in life, and it's like

really all the, you know, you see all the biggest pop stars or film stars or

whatever, like, everything they do is a massive collaborative effort, you know?

Mm-hmm.

You look at, I was looking at a song we cover, uh, a song called

Juice by Lizzo, and there was like seven songwriters on that song when I, yeah.

You know, so.

I think it's brilliant.

I think it's, yeah, it's great.

I think maybe as a young person, I thought I had to do everything myself, you know?

But the reality of the world is that everyone's collaborating

on everything all the time.

There might be one name on the poster or on the tin or on

the video, but predominantly

A whole bunch of people behind it.

there's massive teams for these superstars.

Massive teams.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

No, I agree.

So, yeah, it's, it's cool to talk about it with you guys and hear

about how it happens in music and even to be able to share it too.

Mm-hmm.

So for you guys, just thinking ahead maybe of your goals or just

what's coming up, what, what could people look forward to coming from True Strays?

Yeah.

So we've got, um, Headline tour next April or May.

So we've gotta run of dates in the UK.

Yeah, it's a headline tour with the full band and a couple of new

songs out next year, and then back on the old festivals and hopefully

a few more European adventures.

All right, cool.

Well, hopefully you guys come to London.

That'll, that would be great to see.

See you back here.

So, just really quick, one question that I like to ask everybody, do you have any

advice or mantra you'd like to share?

Um, well I think the thing I've been working on myself is to always try

and be honest, number one, to yourself, how I'm feeling about situations.

And maybe that comes to my songwriting and then into the wider, wider

world and the life around me.

But yeah, be honest to yourself.

Be honest to those around you cause it makes things a lot easier than.

fishing out some through some lies later on, or dishonest, uh, opinions.

So yeah, just be honest to yourself.

Be honest to those around you and things are a bit easier.

No,

that's, I mean, that's really, really good advice.

Yeah.

It's easier to remember what you said when you were dishonest anyway.

That's true.

Yeah.

Remembering lies is hard work.

Yeah.

My one was, I think my dream all along, I thought to be a successful musician,

I needed to have a record deal or have certain magazines writing about my music.

And I'd spend hours and hours emailing record companies and emailing magazines.

You know, really I was just trying to chase validation from the outside

world, and I think really that time would've been better spent

on myself and my musicianship.

So I think always focus on yourself and growing your musical caliber.

You know, put time and energy into growing your, your voice and your musicianship.

And don't waste too much time on, uh, what's outside.

That's the lyric of Joe's.

But yeah, don't waste too much time trying to impress the people on the outside.

Um, as soon as you've got your game down and you know who you are and

what you wanna do, and you practice and practice and perfect it.

Things will come your way.

So yeah, invest your time in what improves you and makes you a better

musician and a better person.

Hmm.

I know when I, I, I already know when I go to edit this later, like I'm gonna

sit there and reflect on that one.

Uh, for sure.

Afterwards.

So that's, that's great guys.

Thank you.

Thank you both.

The last set of questions I have is the fun five.

So it's just five questions I like to ask each, uh, guest.

So first one, what's the oldest T-shirt you have and still wear?

I think I have an old Tottenham Hotspurs football shirt,

which I thought maybe when I was 14.

And I can still get into it.

So some match days, I will cut on that shirt slightly tighter than it used to be.

And I'm not 36, so do the math on that one.

How long?

How long I've had that shirt, but yeah, football club shirt, but I still

have, and I still, every now and then.

That's amazing.

Well, that's reminding me I have on the sporting topic, I have a hoodie

from, I once was in this rugby academy.

Um, so I've got this like England Rugby Academy under seventeens hoodie that

an ex-girlfriend was clearing out her mom's house a couple years ago and

found it in, in a box and returned it.

And now, now my fiance wears it all the time.

So that's probably the bit that I've got.

Oh wow.

That's, that's really cool.

It's like gone kind of full circle too.

Yeah.

It's great.

It's come home.

Um, so this question came more out of the pandemic, but

it was, if every day is really like, was really Groundhogs Day, so like

in the film with Bill Murray where the same song played every morning

for him, what song would you set your alarm clocks to play every morning?

Thinking about this, the first

song that came to my head was Served The Servants by Nirvana.

That opening riff,

I think I'd to hear that song every day.

I'm sure whatever song you picked if it was Groundhog's Day, whatever

song you'd hate it after a while.

Yeah, start with one I love a lot, so that way maybe it'll take me

a lot longer to start hating it.

So Serve The Servant by Nirvana.

I'd hear that every day.

Yeah, nice.

The one that spoke to mind for me, and I think cause

Joe shared it on a, a group WhatsApp recently, is that Marvin Gaye tune Move

On Up where he is got those trousers that, that photo of him so iconic.

The extended version, like the eight, nine minute version.

So I could just lie in bed as long as possible.

Nice.

. Nice.

Yeah.

Plan for the lie in.

That's a, that's a good idea.

Yeah.

All . All right.

Coffee or tea or neither?

Definitely coffee.

Yeah, me too.

Coffee.

We're big Coffee fiends in True Strays.

Yeah.

Three, four cups a day at least.

Nice.

Cool.

And then can you think of something that just cracks you up like that makes you

laugh so hard you cry or just always gets you every time you think of it.

It's, this is just a fun one for me, uh, because I like

laughing and making people laugh.

Good one.

Kinda something more in my family.

Um, my family like to fish and there's a picture of my brother holding a big

fish that's up on a wall and it's been circulating on social media accounts and

um, certain weddings that will come up.

And people tell my brother, oh, it's a great fish you got there.

And he would always reply.

Ah, thanks.

Little did anyone know that he never caught the fish, but he

was, um, acting as if he did.

I think just try.

I dunno why he did that, but when we're at home that conversation comes around family

table, we tend to all break out laughing.

So that's one that Yeah, that comes to family jokes.

Know there's family in jokes that I'm sure we all have.

That one always comes up at the table and it's, it's good.

It bonds

us.

Those are the best and especially the sibling ones.

Oh yes.

My brother and sister and I would just, I mean, we got in trouble

like we got sent away from the table for laughing sometimes, just so yeah,

that's the way to be.

Yeah, I remember as well my family were they, we grew up in the

church and, um, singing the hymns.

My, my dad's voice was, bless him.

It, it was, it was outta tune at best, . And I remember me and my, my sister,

my brother, yeah, just absolutely creasing up, you know, when it quiet,

a quiet, spiritual place, it just makes you wanna laugh harder, doesn't it?

You can't control it.

So that's another one, another family one again.

Being in a quiet, spiritual place and trying not to laugh just makes you

laugh harder at your dad's bad singing.

No, a hundred percent.

My grandma was, had the worst, like, not worst maybe, but the highest

pitch, like weird things she would do.

We went to church with her sometimes, my brother and I in, in Missouri,

like in the middle of the country.

Right?

We grew up in California.

Yeah.

And one time she was singing like that and my brother

was covering his mouth trying not to laugh cuz she was getting mad and then

he made the loudest farting noise..

Ever.

Love it.

And so my mom, my mom called my grandma to tell on us.

And then my mom just started laughing too.

Cuz she knows the voice.

Right?

Because she heard, yeah.

And so, yeah, it was really, yeah, it was crazy.

So anyway.

Well, this wasn't a question for me, but I just relayed so those . Yeah.

Um, so James, what about you?

Well, yeah, I've, that brought back memories of a similar

incident with my mom and her beautiful singing, um, in a church as well.

, um, what great.

Oh yeah, I've literally, I had something to say and then now all

I could think about is this, it was like a 50th wedding, like it was in

a Roman Catholic service as well.

So it was very long and even more somber.

And, uh, we didn't know any of the hymns cause we'd never

really been to Catholic church.

And our friends were like, like 25 years, like reaffirming their

wedding vows to each other.

It was a really beautiful service, but my mom let rip, let rip vocally into

one of the , bless her, and she, you know, she can be a little bit, well,

yeah, she's got a lovely voice, but also, sometimes a little bit flat.

I was literally like crying my eyes out and I had to literally leave

the church and everyone was looking at me like, who is this savage?

That's awesome, guys.

And the last one, who inspires you?

Right now?

I've been listening to Brené Brown's, podcast on Spotify

and just read one of her books.

So I'm learning a lot from her and I find that very inspiring, uh, to learn how to

communicate and listen to people better.

So Brené Brown.

Awesome.

Yeah, she's come up a lot on this podcast actually.

Amazing.

Well, everything comes to my mind as I've got a wonderful

girlfriend, Marta, and she's a workaholic.

And what she does is she does artwork, illustration, and she's working 24/7,

and I see her just keeping on going and creating this great artwork.

And getting xxxxxx I look at her and think, I dunno how you do that.

So I guess in some way she's inspiring me at the minute with her

absolutely wonderful work ethic.

Hmm.

That's cool.

Well you guys, this has been a lot of fun.

Um, the last question I have is just how do you want people to find you if

they're interested in hearing your music or just learning more about you?

Guys, come knock on my front door.

I live at...

We have website true strays dot com (truestrays.com).

We're in all the usual places.

if you want to be a legend, follow us on Spotify and join

our mailing list on our website.

That would be brilliant.

Yeah.

Come say hi.

All right.

Well, thanks you guys.

I, again, I really appreciate, uh, this chat and you taking the time.

So, um,

how did you hear of our music, Rabiah?

So I went to Spiritual Bar, which is in Chalk Farm near Camden.

Aw, yeah.

And saw this.

Yeah, so this woman, Ann Liu Cannon performs there and she's great.

And I saw she was doing a show with you guys.

And so I just look, I was free that night, so I, I, uh, listened

to your album and loved it and I was like, I gotta see these guys.

And then I was just kind of being weird and decided to talk to you at your show.

Yeah.

I, I remember meeting you merch desk.

I remember having, yeah.

That's amazing.

Thanks for coming.

And, um, yeah, and Luke Cannon, she's astounding.

Yeah, she's brilliant.

What a voice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it was just cool and I think I was probably a little homesick and just, I

loved your music and Oh, it was great.

So I'm glad to be one of your fans.

I'll make sure I'm subscribed if I'm not, so yeah.

Great.

Thank you.

Great chatting to you.

Thanks for inviting us.

Thanks for listening.

You can learn more about the guest and what was talked about in the show notes.

Joe Maffia created the music you're listening to.

You can find him on Spotify at Joe M A F F I A.

Rob Metke does all the design for which I'm so grateful.

You can find him online by searching Rob Metke.

Please leave a review if you like the show and get in touch if you

have feedback or guest ideas.

The pod is on all the social channels at at more than work pod

(@morethanworkpod) or at Rabiah Comedy (@RabiahComedy) on TikTok.

And the website is more than work pod dot com (morethanworkpod.com).

While being kind to others, don't forget to be kind to yourself.