"Moonshine" by Young Gun Silver Fox stands out as a modern classic, and Trist and Elaine break down the song's inventive chord progressions, lush orchestration, and the unique contribution of legendary songwriter Rod Temperton. This episode includes an in-depth analysis of the song's production techniques, vocal layering, and the creative journey from forgotten demo to polished release, making this episode a must-listen for musicians and music lovers seeking fresh insights into contemporary songwriting and arrangement.

In the Mailbag segment, Trist and Elaine discuss maintaining a sense of joy in music, sharing personal strategies for keeping music-making fresh and meaningful. The discussion explores the privilege of playing with top-tier musicians, the importance of balancing mentorship with personal growth, and how both amateur and professional musicians can rediscover the pure pleasure of music, offering inspiration for anyone passionate about their craft.

Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y_WVos6YS8
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/3mZ42jDYwCs4xRM3YXYMMT?si=731a5e47711649c9
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/album/moonshine-single/1669592663
• Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0CMJNZNZV?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_CMPjyEjK4dr0FzQgyJvKv0ZGz&trackAsin=B0CMJP389T

Other links

• Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y_WVos6YS8&list=PLc5k8aOI4hVc
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4uCOVpr4NcWT5SGWlZEnnw?si=8j8p7QwlQxmTNNFwFMvCeg
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/songs-reviewed-on-the-musicians-loupe/pl.u-V9D7maah06JNo
• Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/3b47be4937b7490982f4a872db32ec8dsune?ref=dm_sh_AEFZY8KhvSsz1TGoRmasg6zHZ
• Interview with Andy Platts about working with Rod Temperton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypNZbeMxhaI

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Elaine: Hey, Trist, welcome back to season 2!

Trist: Season 2!

Trist: Wow!

Trist: What did you do on summer vacation, Elaine?

Elaine: You know, did a little travel, did a little rest and

Elaine: relaxation, did a little training, all the things that

Elaine: you should do when you have a little bit more time.

Elaine: What about

Trist: Oh,

Elaine: you?

Trist: exactly.

Trist: I mostly just sat around, laid awake all night thinking of new

Trist: songs for our podcast.

Elaine: How convenient for us.

Elaine: What do we have this week?

Trist: This season starts off with a bang.

Trist: We have a co-written song by

Trist: someone in one of my favorite

Trist: groups and an all time classic

Trist: songwriter.

Trist: Even though this song came out maybe ten years after this great

Trist: songwriter passed away.

Elaine: Wait. What, like after he passed away?

Trist: Yes. Story to follow.

Trist: But this week's song is

Trist: "Moonshine" from one of my

Trist: favorite bands, Young Gun Silver

Trist: Fox.

Elaine: Ooh. Okay, I like this group.

Elaine: You introduced this group to me.

Elaine: So before we break, can you

Elaine: remind our listeners how we are

Elaine: listening to music on The Musician's Loupe?

Trist: Here on The Musician's Loupe, we

Trist: just like to encourage you to

Trist: take a moment to improve your

Trist: listening situation.

Trist: You know what I mean.

Trist: We all get in the habits of just throwing in the quick and easy

Trist: way to listen to things.

Trist: And sometimes, those are fantastic ways to do it.

Trist: We here at The Musician's Loupe

Trist: indulge in those manners

Trist: ourselves.

Trist: However, if you have the ability to take the time to grab the

Trist: nicer set of headphones or move into the room that's got the

Trist: good sound system, please take the time to do that.

Trist: And if you can't do it now, just try to do that in your daily

Trist: life now and again if you can.

Trist: We strongly encourage it.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So we are going to leave the

Elaine: links to the song in the show

Elaine: notes, and we will be right

Elaine: back.

Elaine: Okay. So I have listened to

Elaine: exactly one album by Young Gun

Elaine: Silver Fox, and this song did

Elaine: not sound like that album at all.

Elaine: But

Elaine: it was really, really cool.

Trist: Oh really?

Trist: Sure, I guess within their sonic

Trist: palette, at least to my ear,

Trist: they vary a little bit, but I

Trist: guess we tuned in to different

Trist: things maybe.

Trist: Although again, this song has a co-writer unlike any other that

Trist: they have used before.

Trist: So maybe you're picking up on a lot of that.

Elaine: Okay, well, tell me a little bit more about this song.

Trist: Now that you mention it, I think they probably took on the model

Trist: of this songwriter.

Trist: The songwriter's Rod Temperton, who wrote so many great songs

Trist: for Michael Jackson: "Off the Wall," "Rock with You,"

Trist: "Thriller," etc.. And also, George Benson, "Give Me the Night,"

Trist: back in the day he had his band, "Heatwave." They

Trist: did "Always and Forever" and "Boogie Nights." Talk

Trist: about hits! He

Trist: even wrote a song for this band

Trist: called The Manhattan Transfer.

Trist: Back

Trist: in the day, they were in studio recording an album at the same

Trist: time that Michael Jackson was recording Thriller. They

Trist: were in the same place, and they kept hearing all of these cool

Trist: four part choruses from the Michael Jackson records, that was

Trist: on "Off the Wall" and now going to be on "Thriller" that they

Trist: were making, and started poking and saying, "Hey, man, those

Trist: are great. Who

Trist: writes these songs? It's

Trist: got great four part things, and

Trist: we're a four part vocal group.

Trist: So,

Trist: they found out that it was Rod Temperton and they asked him and

Trist: he wrote two songs that they ended up recording, which is really,

Trist: really cool. It

Trist: was good to be able to hear those stories about those days, being

Trist: in the group. So

Trist: now that I think about it, even the way the chorus of this song,

Trist: "Moonshine," goes, it has a lot of that. If

Trist: you think of the way that that chorus sounds. Sure,

Trist: it doesn't sound just like a Michael Jackson tune, but if you

Trist: think of the production of the chorus, it's very similar the

Trist: way that those harmonies, uh, lay, um, so I can kind of hear

Trist: how that is different from the rest of their stuff.

Elaine: I think it was more than just what you hear in those vocal

Elaine: parts, because there were definitely a lot of layered

Elaine: vocal parts in "AM Waves," which was the album that I was

Elaine: referring to before.

Elaine: I felt like this just kind of built in a different way.

Elaine: I also think, though, that the chord structure in and of itself

Elaine: was so distinct as opposed to a more classic yacht rock album

Elaine: that we heard in "AM Wave."

Elaine: So, I heard a lot of flat fives, flat twos.

Elaine: I was taking a look at the chords online and they were all

Elaine: over the place.

Elaine: It was not your standard I, IV, V, vi, maybe minor ii in there.

Elaine: I just felt like this was much

Elaine: more inventive and much more fun

Elaine: from a chord progression

Elaine: perspective.

Trist: Yeah. Apparently, Rod had most of the music kind of sorted.

Trist: Andy Platts, the Young Gun of

Trist: Young Gun Silver Fox, he had

Trist: this wish as a young songwriter,

Trist: "I would love to write like

Trist: him."

Trist: And so he was so bold to just make a demo copy of songs and

Trist: sent it off to him.

Trist: And Rod responded to him and said, yeah, you have potential.

Trist: Come hang out and let's work on some music.

Trist: So he actually just met up with

Trist: him here in LA and they worked

Trist: on this particular song and just

Trist: nothing else ever happened with

Trist: it.

Trist: it was in like 2005, maybe, they worked on this together?

Trist: Yeah, I thought that was kind of wild.

Trist: so it just kind of sat there.

Trist: And then when he's now doing

Trist: this project with Shawn Lee, the

Trist: Silver Fox, a few albums in, he

Trist: finds this track that they had

Trist: worked on and they realized that

Trist: they should kind of reimagine it

Trist: and get it out there to the

Trist: world.

Elaine: And

Trist: So

Elaine: we

Trist: this.

Elaine: get this masterpiece.

Trist: Yeah. So that's a probably a good reason it sounds so much

Trist: different than theirs because they didn't really write it.

Trist: He just worked on it with him.

Elaine: Mm, interesting.

Elaine: I think this really links into one of the other things that I

Elaine: heard, which is how the song built over time.

Elaine: Again, comparing to the other

Elaine: album that I listened to, this

Elaine: is only one out of their many

Elaine: albums.

Elaine: The thing that I was hearing was that it was much more a quieter,

Elaine: classic 70s style to begin with.

Elaine: And then it builds.

Elaine: There were layers of horns, there were layers of synths,

Elaine: there were additional layers of vocals that just kept building

Elaine: and building and building, as opposed to the more classic

Elaine: yacht rock sound, where I don't think it had as much variation

Elaine: in the orchestration.

Trist: Shawn Lee, in my brain, the sonic mastermind of this band,

Trist: understands that time period.

Trist: I think knowing that it's a tune of his, kind of can imagine what

Trist: all those sounds are and is really clever at copying an era

Trist: or copying a sound without necessarily using a sample or

Trist: using any direct quotes.

Trist: It's like a voicing will be

Trist: exactly like your ear remembers

Trist: some old record or the sound of

Trist: the way that the Rhodes sounds

Trist: in the mix will sound just like

Trist: a bunch of records that you've

Trist: heard before, so I think all of

Trist: their songs have that effect of,

Trist: it's a brand new song that still

Trist: feels like a song you've heard

Trist: before.

Elaine: I also appreciated how the

Elaine: orchestration shifted and

Elaine: changed over time to bring us

Elaine: back down.

Elaine: So right

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: after the bridge, there's this chorus where everything

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: is just a little quieter, right?

Elaine: It's just the keys and whatever finger snaps they have.

Elaine: And then there's a tiny little

Elaine: trumpet that comes in the second

Elaine: half of that chorus, and then it

Elaine: brings it back up to what I

Elaine: would consider, the maximalist,

Elaine: very lush orchestration that

Elaine: they had.

Elaine: So

Trist: Right.

Elaine: I felt like that was something that was also very different.

Elaine: It has a little more extremes.

Elaine: It has a little bit more of like a thoughtful, quiet chorus there

Elaine: before it goes wild again.

Trist: Yep. He knows how to have the

Trist: journey go up and down and at a

Trist: very important spot where in

Trist: some tunes that might be the

Trist: spot where it's like a cappella

Trist: or again where it comes down,

Trist: everything drops out and it's

Trist: more sparse.

Trist: It's very typical of those.

Trist: I think probably the only thing that this doesn't have that's

Trist: probably more normal for one of those kinds of songs that he did

Trist: back in the day – think of those Michael Jackson songs – is that

Trist: late third verse.

Trist: Now that I'm thinking about it, I wish they had written a third

Trist: verse that, right when you kind of think the song is over...

Trist: So in that way, this formula is a little bit more current.

Trist: You know what I'm talking about where in the last ten, twenty

Trist: years, it's more common to just really verse chorus there's only

Trist: two verses really.

Trist: And some of those classic Michael Jackson songs, there's

Trist: like a third verse that happens, where nowadays, you're more used

Trist: to like, let's just vamp out or just chorus, chorus, chorus all

Trist: the way out.

Trist: Anyway.

Elaine: Which is what this song does.

Elaine: Yeah.

Trist: Yeah, exactly.

Trist: This is more like that.

Elaine: I think that that is an interesting observation,

Elaine: especially since we have talked about this in Season 1.

Elaine: So let me ask you a little bit

Elaine: more about why this particular

Elaine: song out of their entire

Elaine: discography.

Trist: I think I really liked that, I

Trist: think the two of them are good

Trist: at writing songs for this

Trist: project.

Trist: This Rod Temperton one, it just shows his excellence.

Trist: Everything else is the same.

Trist: Literally just added him to the mix of the songwriting part.

Trist: And to me, this track just

Trist: sticks out just ever so slightly

Trist: above and beyond all of their

Trist: other ones.

Trist: So it has the whatever the unknown piece is.

Trist: He had the magic touch of just

Trist: knowing how to write these

Trist: incredible songs.

Trist: Maybe that's why.

Trist: Because, of course, being one of my current favorite bands, I

Trist: went the whole first season and didn't even include them.

Trist: So, it was just probably hard to decide.

Trist: Every week I would think, oh, maybe this is the week we do a

Trist: Young Gun Silver Fox song and I can never decide.

Trist: So finally I was like, okay, no, this is the one for sure.

Trist: So maybe just because it

Trist: displays his songwriting

Trist: excellence.

Elaine: I'm really interested in what you said earlier about when the

Elaine: song was written, and then when it was actually released,

Elaine: because it seemed like it had a longer bake time than maybe some

Elaine: of their other pieces.

Elaine: Can you talk a little bit about how that might impact the

Elaine: maturity of the song?

Trist: It's possible.

Trist: I don't know.

Trist: if I were privy to the actual demo that they put together when

Trist: they were literally working on it, apparently when they got

Trist: together, they did record themselves a little demo of it

Trist: to remember it.

Trist: And that's the only time they worked on anything.

Trist: You say bake time as if, oh,

Trist: over the time we've changed and

Trist: amended and added and shaped the

Trist: song.

Trist: No, I think he pulled it out of the drawer and said, "Hey, check

Trist: out this song!

Trist: Cool!

Trist: Let's record it."

Trist: What I think of when you mentioned the bake time was

Trist: like, oh, I wrote this song ten years ago, and then nine years

Trist: ago I changed that.

Trist: And seven years ago I changed that.

Trist: And five years ago I changed that.

Trist: And it's had time to just sit there and I've slowly chipped

Trist: away at it and let it happen.

Trist: I don't really know any more of the story other than they did

Trist: get together to write this.

Trist: And they did a little demo of it and he forgot about it.

Trist: And when they're making another album just happened upon it,

Trist: realized they should record it.

Trist: So I don't know how different- maybe if I can somehow track

Trist: that down, we can add it.

Trist: If I ever find it, we'll add a link to the listening list.

Trist: But it would be curious to see

Trist: how different at all other than

Trist: just modern recording sounds, if

Trist: there's anything that much

Trist: different from the way it was

Trist: originally done.

Elaine: The reason I ask is because last season we talked about a Laila

Elaine: Bialy track, where she'd actually rewritten it and

Elaine: evolved this piece over what, like a decade and a half or so

Trist: Right.

Elaine: added lyrics afterwards.

Elaine: It had started out as an

Elaine: instrumental, and as she was

Elaine: sharing about it, she was

Elaine: sharing about her process of

Elaine: really reinventing the song

Elaine: multiple times.

Elaine: And so I wasn't sure whether

Elaine: this was one of those cases or

Elaine: not.

Elaine: And it sounds like it's not, but

Elaine: I just thought it was an

Elaine: interesting link.

Trist: Ah, yeah.

Trist: No, from what I understand of the story, it was kind of that.

Trist: Like, "I can't believe I just wrote a song with Rod Temperton

Trist: and yet-" How could you do that experience and then just forget

Trist: that you did it?

Trist: I'd be telling everyone I knew for the rest of my life that I

Trist: wrote a song with Rod Temperton.

Trist: But Andy's pretty amazing.

Trist: So his songs are strong on their own.

Trist: I guess it's just one of those things.

Trist: He just forgot it until he didn't.

Elaine: Now, one thing that I also

Elaine: thought was interesting was the

Elaine: role of both the horns and the

Elaine: voices.

Elaine: And the reason I say that is that there are certain parts of

Elaine: the horns where it's actually some kind of a response.

Elaine: It fills in that empty spot the way

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: an electric guitar would fill

Elaine: right after the lead singer

Elaine: stops.

Elaine: And in other places, it's more

Elaine: texture where you have horns

Elaine: that are mixed really, really

Elaine: far back.

Elaine: And the same thing happens with the vocals.

Elaine: You have these vocals that

Elaine: sometimes are filling that same

Elaine: spot.

Elaine: And in other places, it's kind of more of a background texture.

Elaine: So

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: I just thought it was really interesting how both the

Elaine: instruments as well as the voices were used in both of

Elaine: these different contexts to provide that level of feel.

Elaine: And also on top of that, there

Elaine: were a couple of different types

Elaine: of keys that again, fed into

Elaine: that texture.

Elaine: Like we had the Rhodes, but we had a Rhodes in like a much

Elaine: brighter synth laid on top of one another that really fed into

Elaine: the feeling that we got from different parts of the song.

Trist: I think that's good production and arranging on their part.

Trist: Again, Shawn Lee, the Silver Fox.

Trist: He knows that stuff.

Trist: He's so good at that.

Trist: So, not surprising that he would

Trist: understand the role he has every

Trist: time knowing, Oh, no, these horn

Trist: parts are indeed like rhythmic

Trist: responses.

Trist: And oh, this is a texture, this

Trist: is a contrapuntal, a little

Trist: countermelody back here or a

Trist: little descant up top or

Trist: whatever.

Trist: And same with the vocals.

Trist: Understanding what the role is

Trist: is important when you're

Trist: arranging and producing a track

Trist: like this.

Elaine: So I'm now going to switch gears and ask you, what did you think

Elaine: about the lyrics?

Trist: The lyrics are cool.

Trist: It's not incredibly deep.

Trist: I like the not brand new allusion to, your love is like a

Trist: drug, etc.. that's not the first time that's been used.

Trist: and yet, still done really effectively.

Trist: Yeah, I think it's cool.

Elaine: I totally got that as well, the whole overused trope about your

Elaine: love is all of these things.

Elaine: But I did find the bridge really interesting.

Elaine: The first verse is talking about

Elaine: him and how there's like

Elaine: escapism through the

Elaine: relationship.

Elaine: And the second verse is about

Elaine: her and how he wants her to come

Elaine: to him.

Elaine: There's this description of their relationship.

Elaine: What I wrote down when I

Elaine: listened to the bridge was "no

Elaine: thoughts, only vibes," which is,

Elaine: you know, very common kind of

Elaine: phrase nowadays because he says,

Elaine: "there ain't no rhyme or

Elaine: reason."

Elaine: But he does say that this

Elaine: relationship is important to

Elaine: him.

Elaine: And so he's just like, I don't know, the vibes are really cool.

Elaine: So let's just keep on going.

Elaine: And, that really to me

Elaine: underscored the importance of

Elaine: the bridge, which is what we've

Elaine: said before in Season 1, just

Elaine: how important it is to think

Elaine: about all of the lyrics

Elaine: together, not just individual

Elaine: pieces, but, there's a compare,

Elaine: there's a contrast, there is a

Elaine: her and me kind of this third

Elaine: person.

Elaine: And in the middle of this, there is a sense of, oh, I know this

Elaine: doesn't make sense.

Elaine: I know this is bad for me.

Elaine: And at the same time, this is what brings me joy.

Elaine: This is what brings me light.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: So yeah, so I just thought it was not necessarily as clever as

Elaine: any of the other pieces that we listened to, but certainly a

Elaine: little more subtle than I think, if you're just bopping to the

Elaine: lyrics, you probably wouldn't catch all of that.

Trist: Yeah. True.

Elaine: Well, any last things to say

Elaine: about this song before we move

Elaine: on?

Trist: Um, well, check out the rest of

Trist: the band's material if you get a

Trist: chance.

Trist: Definitely a favorite, and you'll hear the difference that

Trist: Elaine was mentioning.

Trist: Not all the songs sound exactly

Trist: like this, but they're all very

Trist: well written and well produced,

Trist: well sung.

Trist: And if you can see them live and in person.

Trist: Wow.

Trist: Please do that.

Trist: They are based in the UK, but

Trist: they do get around the world a

Trist: bit, so keep your eye out for

Trist: them.

Elaine: And so with that, we are moving on to.

Trist: Mailbag. Mailbag.

Trist: Mailbag.

Elaine: That's right, The Mailbag.

Elaine: And if you would like to get a

Elaine: hold of us, you can email us at

Elaine: [email protected].

Elaine: That's L o u p e. Or @themusiciansloupe at both

Elaine: Threads and Instagram.

Elaine: So this week we have a Threads

Elaine: post from Heath Allen from June

Elaine: of 2026.

Elaine: And he writes, "When I was a

Elaine: young musician, I used to sit

Elaine: around playing music for hours

Elaine: just for the pure pleasure of

Elaine: it.

Elaine: I wasn't necessarily learning songs for bands or rehearsing

Elaine: for anything in particular.

Elaine: I just loved learning and playing.

Elaine: Now, somewhere over forty years

Elaine: into my career, I'm almost

Elaine: always preparing, learning, and

Elaine: rehearsing for various bands and

Elaine: upcoming gigs.

Elaine: However, I have recently made

Elaine: sure to keep that perspective

Elaine: and remember that I love doing

Elaine: this.

Elaine: It's not work or an obligation.

Elaine: It's not a chore that is keeping me from something else.

Elaine: It is something I love and enjoy.

Elaine: This perspective is so important

Elaine: and makes all this quote unquote

Elaine: homework so much infinitely more

Elaine: enjoyable."

Trist: Hm.

Elaine: Yeah. So

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: I guess my question for you is how do you keep things fresh?

Elaine: How do you keep this perspective that, music is fun.

Elaine: Music is a privilege.

Trist: I think for me, rather than the

Trist: same way that this person

Trist: mentions that they're sitting

Trist: around playing, just for the

Trist: sake of it rather than for a

Trist: particular gig.

Trist: What comes to mind for me that I

Trist: experience is because there are

Trist: a lot of gigs, whether I'm doing

Trist: sound or whether I'm performing,

Trist: singing, etc. I'm around a lot

Trist: of music and have a lot of it

Trist: going on.

Trist: I realized that I stopped listening.

Trist: In one way, doing the pod has

Trist: helped because, of course, I've

Trist: had to remind myself of some of

Trist: these songs that I wanted to

Trist: suggest and for us to talk

Trist: about.

Trist: One of the best things about it is it's forced me to- Sometimes,

Trist: even when preparing for this, when I'm listening for songs

Trist: that I want to choose and I'll have three or four, I'll listen

Trist: to them again and just to listen to them and realize and remember

Trist: just how much I love that, I tend to just feel better.

Trist: I'm in a better mood.

Trist: Sometimes, I'll just put on a record and realize I hadn't for

Trist: weeks or months or whatever, or haven't had enough plane trips

Trist: where I wasn't sleeping, where I wanted to just listen to music.

Trist: And every time I do it, when it's been a long time, what I'm

Trist: doing it just to listen instead of for a project or for some

Trist: kind of thing I need to learn, it's always refreshing.

Trist: As if I don't know that that's something about myself, right?

Trist: It's like the gym, like you haven't worked out for a while

Trist: and then you work out and you feel amazing the rest of the day

Trist: as if that's something you didn't know was true.

Trist: Like, wow, this working out's amazing.

Trist: I feel great all day.

Trist: Why don't I do this all the time?

Trist: Right?

Trist: I have that same feeling when I listen to music that I haven't

Trist: listened to just casually for enjoyment for a long time.

Trist: I feel so much better.

Trist: When I read this, that's what I think.

Trist: How about you?

Trist: What kind of things do you do?

Trist: How do you work it in so it

Trist: doesn't always feel like a chore

Trist: every time you're dealing with

Trist: music?

Elaine: That's an interesting question because I'm not sure it ever

Elaine: loses it for me.

Elaine: And it's primarily because I am not a full time musician.

Elaine: I have to choose to do music.

Elaine: My default is not to do music.

Elaine: And so when I get to do music, it is always a privilege.

Trist: Mm. Yeah.

Elaine: I can always think of it like, yeah, this is a special time.

Elaine: This is a time that I really

Elaine: appreciate and that I don't

Elaine: normally get.

Elaine: And so even if I'm playing forty weekends a year, forty weekends

Elaine: a year is a lot!

Elaine: I'm doing a lot of special services.

Elaine: I'm playing a lot of music and really challenging myself.

Elaine: But every time I do that, I think to myself, yeah, there is

Elaine: no better place for me to be than right here on this stage.

Elaine: Even in rehearsal, I think to myself, this is a privilege.

Elaine: Even if I'm not doing as well as

Elaine: I want to, or if I realize, oh,

Elaine: there's something more I have to

Elaine: drill.

Elaine: And if I'm sitting there

Elaine: drilling, I think to myself,

Elaine: this is a privilege because I

Elaine: don't get to do this for a full

Elaine: time job.

Trist: Yeah, that would make the difference.

Trist: I think someone who has a quote unquote real job and then does

Trist: this as a quote unquote hobby.

Trist: I know that's very simplifying it.

Trist: And I know that's not always the

Trist: case, but, when it's not the

Trist: main thing, I think you look at

Trist: it more like, ooh, I get to do

Trist: this.

Trist: I love the way that you said that I get to do this.

Trist: And then if it is your main thing, then even in a situation

Trist: where you get to do this.

Trist: So, being someone who is a professional musician and that's

Trist: the main job.

Trist: I still have occasions where,

Trist: oh, I'm just getting together

Trist: with these friends and we're

Trist: doing music.

Trist: It's kind of the same, but you're right, I think it hits

Trist: differently when the thing that you normally do is also music.

Trist: So that makes a lot of sense.

Elaine: I think another thing that happens for me: previous to

Elaine: this, I'd been playing in much more community style centers

Elaine: where I was the best musician.

Elaine: And sometimes that could be a drag, because it felt like, oh,

Elaine: man, when do I get to play with people that I don't need to

Elaine: coach or the people who I don't necessarily need to invest so

Elaine: much in, but what can I receive?

Elaine: And when I was in that situation, one of the ways that

Elaine: I would go to receive that life and that investment would be to

Elaine: play at other churches or play underneath better musicians than

Elaine: I was like, be exposed to different kinds of contexts to

Elaine: not only challenge myself, but to be the weakest link.

Elaine: And in my current situation, I am quite often the weakest link,

Elaine: which as a strong musician is such a privilege.

Elaine: When you get to play, and I I've seen you play with the top

Elaine: people in the business, and that is a huge privilege because it's

Elaine: so much fun when everyone is just amazing at what they do.

Elaine: And so I think that that is something that I am very

Elaine: privileged to do now, is to be in a situation where quite often

Elaine: I can hold my own, but I'm playing with some of the best

Elaine: musicians in the area.

Trist: I definitely relate to that.

Trist: It's much better.

Trist: I'm never the best musician in the music things I'm doing.

Trist: I'm usually at the bottom of the rung and bottom of it all and

Trist: that's the best.

Trist: I like that the most, being

Trist: around amazing musicians you can

Trist: learn from.

Elaine: And I don't mean to pan being the best musician because

Elaine: there's a responsibility and a role that we have as experienced

Elaine: musicians to invest in the next generation of musicians.

Elaine: And I definitely feel that as

Elaine: important and it's valuable and

Elaine: I see that, but sometimes it's

Elaine: just exhausting to have to give

Elaine: at

Trist: Right.

Elaine: all times as opposed to feeling

Elaine: like there is a celebration in

Elaine: music.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: Well, any other thoughts on this before we wrap up?

Trist: I think that's it for this week.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: Well, as we wrap up, we have a

Elaine: couple of things to share with

Elaine: you.

Elaine: First of all, we are starting a brand new playlist.

Elaine: As you know, we started a playlist for season one and

Elaine: we've decided that we are going to start a brand new playlist

Elaine: just with the songs that we are covering in Season 2.

Trist: Yeah that's right.

Trist: So please check out the playlist

Trist: for Season 1 and share it with

Trist: friends.

Trist: Please share it with some people.

Trist: Even if you don't share your favorite pod episode, share the

Trist: playlist and just let them know that this comes from a podcast

Trist: that you listen to and that if they're curious to dig a little

Trist: deeper into a song, you know where to find us.

Elaine: One of the pieces of feedback that I've gotten just from the

Elaine: playlist is people scroll through and they're like, wow,

Elaine: that really is very diverse.

Trist: Mm!

Elaine: And so yeah, that's been a big

Elaine: fun part of doing this podcast

Elaine: is listening to all sorts of

Elaine: different music.

Elaine: And so people are going to

Elaine: resonate with different types of

Elaine: songs.

Elaine: And at the same time, this is a

Elaine: journey of exploration for all

Elaine: of us.

Elaine: So definitely encourage you to share that playlist.

Trist: Please do.

Trist: And, again, keep your eye out

Trist: for the things coming in this

Trist: second season.

Trist: We're glad to be back with you.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: Have a great week.

Elaine: I'm

Trist: See?

Elaine: not going to share.

Trist: That's why I can't say things.

Elaine: I got warthog tusks.

Trist: Super loud to you, oblivious out here.

Elaine: I'm like,

Trist: I

Elaine: come on, dude.

Elaine: Like.

Trist: got you.

Elaine: I didn't want to interrupt you.

Elaine: You're on a roll.

Trist: So now this series will be seventy four episodes long.

Trist: No.

Elaine: What is that phrase again?

Trist: even if it's ten years from now and you're just joining us, it's

Trist: still just season two.

Elaine: I do have a pokey in my mouth right now, so.

Trist: I was waiting for your curiosity.

Elaine: Hold on.

Elaine: Let me say that again.

Trist: Rewind.

Trist: Welcome back everybody.