I sit down with author Cammie McGovern, whose latest book, The Last Letters of Sally and Walter, is set to hit shelves soon (April 2026). Cammie brings her wealth of experience as a novelist and teacher to the conversation, sharing the inspiration behind her new work—a heartwarming story about love, friendship, and new beginnings in the later years of life.

Set in a vibrant retirement community, Cammie's novel centers on Sally, a 73-year-old Scrabble prodigy, and Walter, her club leader and soon-to-be companion on and off the Scrabble board. The story beautifully explores the power of connection, the importance of lifelong learning, and the joys of forming rich relationships in your golden years.

We also talk about the realities of aging, the meaningful friendships that blossom later in life, and the importance of seeing older adults authentically represented in books and on screen. So whether you're an older adult, an adult child, or simply interested in stories that celebrate life at every age, this episode is for you.

3 Key Takeaways:

• Friendship and New Beginnings: Later-life communities offer incredible opportunities for new friendships and even love, dispelling the myth that meaningful connections belong only to the young.
• Representation Matters: We need more fiction and media that highlight the complexity, humor, and vibrancy of older adults—because aging is living, not merely enduring.
• Choices and Joy in Aging: Life’s final chapters are filled with options. With curiosity and planning, aging can be a time of growth, fun, and fulfillment.

Email me, Lisa Stockdale, anytime at aginginfullbloom@gmail.com

Aging in Full Bloom with Lisa Stockdale is sponsored by HomeCaire. We believe every patient should get the personalized care they need, in the way they want it. Every caregiver should feel supported, valued, and motivated. We see each person as their own entity, with unique needs, desires, and skills. Our goal is to best support our family as they reach new milestones.

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Today I have an author on the line with me. Her name is Kami McGovern. She has written a book called the Last Letters of Sally and Walter and the book is to publish soon. Am I correct, Ms. Kami?

That's right. April 7th.

Whoa. Really soon. Okay, so it's going to be hot off the presses.

Maybe it'll come out right before this podcast published, which is awesome for our listeners. So is this your first novel or have you written others?

This is actually my tenth.

Oh my gosh. So you're a professional.

But I've written a wide variety and that's completely fine to most of it fiction. And I was, I spent 12 years writing for young people, so middle grade and young adult. And this is my first foray back to adult fiction in a while.

Back to adult works for us because most of our audience is either adult children or, or older adults, as you probably know. So is this book fiction? It is. Yes, it's a novel.

Yes, it is. Yes it is.

And I can give you a little thumbnail, which is that it's about a woman who has just moved into an independent living community, a retirement community, and has joined a Scrabble club where she turns out to be like a 73 year old prodigy at Scrabble.

And so the leader of that club wants to take her to the top and bring her to nationals and, and along the way they develop a real friendship and then it becomes a love story.

Okay, now before we go further with this story and I want to hear all about it and I want to hear where, you know, how this idea occurred to you and so forth and so on, but let us know a little bit more about you personally. What part of the country do you live in? Or do you even live in the continental U.S. yes, Massachusetts. And what did you do when you had a day job?

I have written and supported myself with writing for 25 years and teaching along the way. And in fact I missed the teaching part. And so I have been leading a writing group at my mother's, you know, retirement community.

So this was what triggered this, was my mother moving closer.

I grew up in Los Angeles and so my mother was living there and after my dad died, she moved out here to Amherst to live in a senior living environment that is really caters to aging professors, I would say, in teacher types, because they're really real emphasis on ongoing learning. And so I just kind of slid in there and said, oh, I'm happy to offer a writing group. And that's been really fun. And I've done that for four years.

Sounds amazing. And it's amazing that you have made a living writing for 25 years, because for most people, you know, it, they.

They have to have a day job to make it work. But. But you've been successful just with the writing pieces?

Yeah, up and down, you know.

Okay, and when you were teaching, you were teaching what, English writing, Literature.

Yes, English and writing at Hampshire College and other places. Yeah.

Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, so mom moves into this retirement community, and this has a heavy focus on learning, which I always say, always be learning.

When you stop learning, something's dreadfully wrong. Right. So that's. That's fun and exciting.

It's been one of my revelations about happy aging.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm really admiring how the people I meet there for. For that.

Right. And so this idea occurred to you now, how long did it take you to write the book?

Usually, I would say about two years, and this one might have been slightly longer because I was kind of getting back into the swing of figuring out writing for adults and kids. It's a different. I am also the parent. And if. If my name rings a bell to any of your listeners, I'm the parent. My oldest son has autism.

And so I was writing a lot in the space of autism parents, and. And I wrote for the New York Times about it. And so one of my pieces became the most emailed article in the New York Times that year about autism.

So if anybody works like, that's how. That's what I'm slightly known for.

Okay, what's the name of that piece?

I can't remember what they called it. It's. It's called. It's about Ethan. And then he was. There was a little documentary about him on the Op Docs page of the New York Times.

Okay.

And that's called Being Ethan. I think it's something Ethan. If you look up Ethan and opdoc, you'll see you'll find it.

Okay. Yeah, well, autism touched. I mean, I think everybody I know has been touched by autism in one way or another. So that's wildly important work.

Okay, so this idea, this love story. So Sally and Walter, how old are they?

Seven. They're in their early 70s. It's not totally. Sally's 73, and Walter is around 75.

Okay. Okay. And tell me how. How does. Well, first question. Does he get her to the top of the Scrabble world?

I should. I should save that. Because life intervenes as it will. Okay, so, you know, you know what I'm Saying, and somehow that was my initial intent.

Intent was this will be all about her. And I went to some big tournament, Scrabble tournaments. It's a wonderful world and it's a wonderful.

What if people are at all curious, please check out your local Scrabble.

You know, there's Scrabble clubs and Scrabble tournaments all over and they're very active and they're wonderful places to meet people because I just joined my little local one in doing research for the book and just fell in love. And everybody's a little nerdy. Of course, that's.

Imagine that.

Surprise. I'm not speaking out of turn there, but it's nerdy in this very sweet way.

And it's not, it turns out what makes you good at Scrabble is not necessarily being the most well read person with the biggest vocabulary. It's actually being mathematical.

So the top champions are mathematicians for predictability and odds and being able to do stuff in your head and memory. And there were certain things that I was seeing other top people. In fact, Sally wouldn't fit that mold.

And so I wanted it to be about their, their friendship and their relationship and the way their relationship with their families and their kids, you know, come is, is bringing like what they're teaching their own children who have their own problems.

Sure.

Center of the school.

Well, that was fun. Sidebar on Scrabble though. Swear to goodness, I didn't know it was such a big enterprise.

Huge. Yeah, it's really, it's both endearing and lovely because it's an old fashioned game. And when you walk into any Scrabble club, there's equal numbers.

Maybe slightly more towards the older side, but there's also 14 year olds and 8 year olds. It's sort of like chess. Yeah, I'm sure young kids can be very, very good at it, surprisingly.

And, and everybody's just ch, ch chit with their tiles, you know, flipping, flipping, flipping.

Oh my gosh. It sounds delightful. And it makes sense that, you know, kids would be good at it with the mathematical component that you mentioned.

Okay, so Sally and Walter fall in love later in life. Does this happen in real life? Do you know stories of people falling in love late in life?

I would say actually not directly. And it's not my mother's story.

However, what I have seen in this writing group at the, you know, place where she, the community where she lives is the development of really, really rich and surprising friendships where, and it could be because we're writing about the past, we're writing about Hard things and people are sharing revelations about each other.

But I, I just see them be very, very good friends to one another in this way that as, as banal as it might sound, it turns out that's really what matters most. And I, I've being there for each other, recognizing and there seems to be more of a tendency towards saying, I can't help you solve this problem.

I can't. You know, when we're younger, we want and mothers, I have this problem. I know you're the solution to the problem that you're talking to.

And they just hear each other and say, I know what you're talking about. I hear you, I see you. I felt that way. You know, my daughter, we had very hard times. I don't.

They just share things in this nice, available to each other way.

Even those who have some memory issues, cognitive issues, like I see them, still be able to kind of reach over and squeeze a hand because there's something they may not have the words still to, to express that. And it's very, very touching to me.

It is. And I think what you. First of all, I can amen what you' saying. I've seen it firsthand myself. I think it's beautiful what you're saying too.

And I think people overlook this. There is this opportunity, the space that you have once you become an older adult.

And even if you need assistance, even if you have to move into a memory care unit or a skilled facility, and we hope that doesn't happen. We hope that's not your path. But even if it is your path, you still have an. You're still alive.

You still have an opportunity to build new friendships. And we see people doing it.

And I think it, you know, has to do with just this time in their life and everything that they bring with them and a deep understanding of what does matter in life. It is the friendships. It's not really the Scrabble. Scrabble is fun, no doubt, right? Whatever your Scrabble may be.

But, but what really matters are the connections that we make. How we love each other, how we know each other. And ye, that happens to older adults. And it's also exciting because it's new friendships.

Some of our oldest friends are dear and near, but there's some baggage that comes with them. They know everything twice. You know, you have a new opportunity.

That could be true. Like my mother had always had wide circle of friends back in Los Angeles, and she still doesn't.

She keeps up with many of them, but she has more in common now with the local. And it could be something about that. It's hard for other people to see you changing.

She was a beloved English teacher at a high school, and so a lot of her friends were younger. The younger teachers or old students.

Yeah.

And, you know, aging, where people are disappointed if they see you aging, you know, like, that doesn't feel that good. I'm not sure if she had that. I'm not sure. But I just do know that there's something about seeing each other now and acknowledging and respecting and.

And all of that was. And I. I saw it especially because she broke her foot. So she's 92 now and certainly is. You know, she. She probably.

Most people would say, oh, I'm surprised she's 92, but I'm not looking at her overall picture, but I see. I know the things that she cannot no longer do in the ways that she is being impacted by age. But I also see that there's a fundamental connection.

And she broke her foot and her friends there at some point sort of clustered around me to share some things that they were concerned about with her. And I just thought, oh, this is so kind and generous that they are the ones that are seeing certain things better than I am. That's what I thought.

Yeah. Yeah, I hear that. I also hear that mention of, you know, just listening and not.

Because I, too, am a mother, and not too long ago, my adult son brought something to me. And I'm listening to him talk, and before I even open my mouth, he says to me, mama, you can't solve this. So I just shut my mouth.

You know, I'm like, okay, fine. You just need me to listen. And that is how friendships are built. We don't really want or need other people to solve our problems.

We'll figure that out. We'll hit those walls on our own. But this idea of listening to each other and being there for each other. So is it a long read? What do you think? How.

How many.

It's meant to be in the. It's sort of being marketed in the rom com category, so. But I. It's not exactly a. You know, but it's.

It's a light read, and it's 300ish pages, and it's coming out in paperback, so that's. And hopefully widely available. We'll see.

Yeah. Yeah. So maybe a good book for vacation, A beach read.

Yes, that's the hope. That's the hope.

Okay. All right. What else do you want us to know about the actual story of Sally and Walter?

I hope it's funny as well as I think what we need right now are more stories that feature older characters and more fiction that features older characters. And with a certain. So I and my sister lives in England and for some reason over there they have loads and loads of these.

And it starts with Thursday Murder Club and the Pilgrimage of Harold Fry, if you know that series.

And maybe your listeners aren't particularly, but there's a whole slew of books coming over from the UK that are really featuring complex older characters that are also funny, realistic.

That's what I loved about the Thursday Murder Club is those are very real characters, still very, very capable, very smart and sharp, but truly old and funny in the way that old people often are and the way they act well on certain things. And so I was trying to capture that and I think we're finally getting it like we're getting these TV shows. The man on the Inside.

Is that the name of the Ted Danson one? Yes, yes. And I think that one's really well done. Unfortunately, the movie of Thursday Murder Club isn't as good as the book.

So if people have watched that, I think the books are better. But I think seeing ourselves will help.

Seeing ourselves in fiction, which is what novels allow us to do, and seeing what life looks like when you're older. I think one of the big revelations, and I'll just say this quickly because I'm going to take too long, is that I wish we had.

I wish there was more emphasis around here on look at and think about what will be enriching, fun and pleasurable.

Older, you know, the third half of your life, the last 20 years, the community you want to be in, the activities you want to do, because it is not all depressing. I think we've gotten too much of this internalized message about, although all of that sounds depressing, it's just nursing homes and that's it.

Or it's. Yeah, just like we're not. There's nothing fun or exciting or possible out there. And that's really quite the opposite.

And if people are looking around and thinking about this, they should in fact be seeing the wide variety of options there are. There's a lot of depressing options, but there's a lot that aren't. And. And if you plan ahead and give it some consideration, it's.

You might start to start to think about it differently.

Yeah, well, of course we agree with you, Cami. That's why we're called aging in full bloom. Right. And this is a reoccurring message that many of our guests share.

But I do love your point that we're missing older people in the public view in a meaningful way, moving beyond the stereotypes. And so there's validation.

And we, we understand that, that people need to be seen in the public space, including novels and TV and radio and so forth and so on. And then it's almost like you have permission to be old. You don't need it. You don't need permission to be old.

But, but the other, the other key here is you're not done until you're done. And you use the word option. You have a choice. This all goes back to your choices and how you want to live the last third of your life, as you put it.

Yeah.

So the book will be available on Amazon, I presume?

Yes. Yes, indeed. And in targets and other places.

Okay.

I thank you so much. What a pleasure to talk to you.

Yes, ma'. Am. Thank you for writing the book. We'll be looking forward to it publishing. And we'll talk to you soon, listeners, till next time.

May the road rise to meet you. May the wind be forever at your back.